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dale farm

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

so that was a waste of money then, seems they are back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought this was gonna be a thread about milk and yoghurt !

Keep forgetting about them pesky travellers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

are they back on the land they own, or are they back illegally squatting on the farmers land?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

well they owned the land they were evicted from, they were thrown out because of planning laws

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well you not going to stop them from returning to the land they own.

all thats happened is the hardstanding and structures they had built there have been taken up, they are free to use the land within rules and regs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????"

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong."

that may be so, its only what ive read in the paper. so i dont know for sure.

im no expert in the law, but whatever the case im just thinking how much is this going to cost now, what ever action is taken. and what a wast for a country that really cant afford to be wasting money

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The travellers owned the land at Dale Farm.....all of it, but they only had planning permission for some of the land.

They are entitled to revisit their land at will, should they then attempt to fix dwellings on that land then they will be at the mercy of the law.

You cannot I believe return to any land or property within 28 days of forced eviction through a court order, after that the council will have to re-apply to the court and start the process all over again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong.

that may be so, its only what ive read in the paper. so i dont know for sure.

im no expert in the law, but whatever the case im just thinking how much is this going to cost now, what ever action is taken. and what a wast for a country that really cant afford to be wasting money"

The country wastes millions a year and yes its an expense that the country can do without. However the law has to be upheld or the number of people breaking it will multiply. Up to £18 million is what they expect Dale Farm to cost. Not a fraction of the cost of the London riots or policing the city and town centres late night sorting d*unks out.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

The reasons behind Dale Farm's eviction were simple.

A small proportion of the site was legal, with properties erected, but unfortunately, the boundaries were extended illegally, and it was that large section that was eventually cleared in the operation we witnessed in the Media a few weeks ago.

In the eviction process, one of the main clauses was that once the site was cleared, it could not be re-occupied. Anyone attempting to do so, or who did occupy the site again would be liable to arrest under certain laws.

That's a summary!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong.

that may be so, its only what ive read in the paper. so i dont know for sure.

im no expert in the law, but whatever the case im just thinking how much is this going to cost now, what ever action is taken. and what a wast for a country that really cant afford to be wasting money

The country wastes millions a year and yes its an expense that the country can do without. However the law has to be upheld or the number of people breaking it will multiply. Up to £18 million is what they expect Dale Farm to cost. Not a fraction of the cost of the London riots or policing the city and town centres late night sorting d*unks out. "

i agree with what you say, but it seems that the law has lost all sence of reason, maybe even its teeth.

why does it cost so much to evict them, surely worrying about the rights of someone who has steped out side of the law is a bit daft.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reasons behind Dale Farm's eviction were simple.

A small proportion of the site was legal, with properties erected, but unfortunately, the boundaries were extended illegally, and it was that large section that was eventually cleared in the operation we witnessed in the Media a few weeks ago.

In the eviction process, one of the main clauses was that once the site was cleared, it could not be re-occupied. Anyone attempting to do so, or who did occupy the site again would be liable to arrest under certain laws.

That's a summary!"

Eviction clause..

They couldn't return to live on the illegally obtained land (farmers land) or they couldn't return to live on their own land?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong."

I guess they will be arresred and remanded into custody. They can ask for bail, but if its refused. they will be in nick untill trial

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/11/11 10:21:25]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

Under the Town and Country Planning Act there is no land in England and Wales, apart from the Royal Parks, that cannot have planning applications entered in respect of building.....this includes so called 'Green Belt' land.

Therefore there cannot under the said Act of Parliament be a 'lifelong' covernent for any piece of land not to be built upon....apart from the Royal Parks.

Applications can, and probably will be entered for Dale Farm again in the future, as no common court in the land can outlaw applications....they can only uphold failed applications by local authorities, when these councils apply for evictions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I thought this was gonna be a thread about milk and yoghurt !

Keep forgetting about them pesky travellers "

i thought it was gonna be about emmerdale farm lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

why does it cost so much to evict them, "

For the same reason it takes £30 to change a light bulb or £750 000 to refurb the khazi at Charing X Station.

Someones taking the piss and lining their pockets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes planning ,mmm who gets and who does not get ,all depends on whos hands you are willing to greese

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


" but it seems that the law has lost all sence of reason, maybe even its teeth.

why does it cost so much to evict them, surely worrying about the rights of someone who has steped out side of the law is a bit daft."

the 'law' has never been about reason, more about vested interests, big salaries and 'knowledge is power'

yep, just shoot them all eh!

really cheap solution, we could do the same for people spitting on the pavement

or not towing the party line.

aware thats a bit extreme, but imagine your landlord, mortgage provider just turning up and evicting you without warning..dumped on the street.

i for one would not sleep with worry for you if that were the case, hence we have the law, rights oh and responsibilities also

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

our council ,i will not say where , were billed for £1200 pound for a plumer to change a tap washer,turend out that the said plumer was a reli of a manager in the department who alocates outside contracts ,,i think most councils wright the rules to suit themself and are fundamently corrupt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most of those 'travellers' occupying the illegal plots simply moved their caravans over to the legal side of the camp, but that in itself broke laws regarding maximum amount of temporary dwellings each plot on the legal side can accomodate. Basildon Council obtained an injunction on 7th Nov to prevent any illegal reoccupation of the now vacant illegal side of the camp and have said they will enforce the injunction vigorously.

What puzzles me is if they are 'travellers' why do they want a permanent camp? Aren't they supposed to travel - as their title implies?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

What puzzles me is if they are 'travellers' why do they want a permanent camp? Aren't they supposed to travel - as their title implies?"

Yep, all that its our culture bollocks!

(stops before ranting about 'travellers')

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000."

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

aware thats a bit extreme, but imagine your landlord, mortgage provider just turning up and evicting you without warning..dumped on the street.

i for one would not sleep with worry for you if that were the case, hence we have the law, rights oh and responsibilities also

"

but thats got nothing to do with breaking the law on your side, so yes you should have rights

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?"

Or....maybe he just worked hard?

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

Is this a fact?....or just something we all assume because that's what we have been led to believe over the years?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

aware thats a bit extreme, but imagine your landlord, mortgage provider just turning up and evicting you without warning..dumped on the street.

i for one would not sleep with worry for you if that were the case, hence we have the law, rights oh and responsibilities also

but thats got nothing to do with breaking the law on your side, so yes you should have rights"

who says you hav'nt done nothing wrong??

your implication that 'they' should be booted off without recourse to the law, the costs etc does'nt just apply to those you dont like surely?

not a fan at all in any way shape or form of this group in our society but the law is there to allow due process for them as equally it is for slum landlords to not be allowed to kick out tenants on lower rate long term lets?

or people living in the path of proposed runways high speed railways etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?

Or....maybe he just worked hard?

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

Is this a fact?....or just something we all assume because that's what we have been led to believe over the years?

"

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

"

there is no doubt an element of that given the slant of the media we have at present, and they are by and large an 'easy target'

however whilst there will be some who are 'good members of society', there are others within their culture who wreak havoc.

and not generalising either having had contact with some of them for 20+ yrs

same as there are scum in our 'indigenous' group, good and bad in all.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"....

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove."

they are not the only people who do that, lots of others do the same.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

aware thats a bit extreme, but imagine your landlord, mortgage provider just turning up and evicting you without warning..dumped on the street.

i for one would not sleep with worry for you if that were the case, hence we have the law, rights oh and responsibilities also

but thats got nothing to do with breaking the law on your side, so yes you should have rights

who says you hav'nt done nothing wrong??

your implication that 'they' should be booted off without recourse to the law, the costs etc does'nt just apply to those you dont like surely?

not a fan at all in any way shape or form of this group in our society but the law is there to allow due process for them as equally it is for slum landlords to not be allowed to kick out tenants on lower rate long term lets?

or people living in the path of proposed runways high speed railways etc"

but they have broken the law, so should have no defence, it even went to the euro court because it was a breach of their human rights.

why is it a breach of human rights if you break the law then surely you cant expect the law to protect you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"....

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove.

they are not the only people who do that, lots of others do the same.

"

but the discussion here is about travellers in particular.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?

Or....maybe he just worked hard?

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

Is this a fact?....or just something we all assume because that's what we have been led to believe over the years?

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove."

I think you will find many tradesmen offer a cash discount not just travellers. Some car dealerships have offered no VAT over the last 18 months on new cars. Are they evading the tax though? You may be shocked but some of the discounts are not actually tax free but just a way of getting your business there and then.

As for the common knowledge they evade taxes, well some say there is a monster in Loch Ness, others say there are mermaids and yetis but hear say and rumour are precisely that. Some PEOPLE evade tax that's a fact but to say one racial group does it more than others is......

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"....

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove.

they are not the only people who do that, lots of others do the same.

but the discussion here is about travellers in particular."

highlighting one negative aspect looks prejudiced given not all within that particular group are bad

and to reiterate again, not a fan of some within the group who use as an excuse the 'culture' argument

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?

Or....maybe he just worked hard?

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

Is this a fact?....or just something we all assume because that's what we have been led to believe over the years?

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove.

I think you will find many tradesmen offer a cash discount not just travellers. Some car dealerships have offered no VAT over the last 18 months on new cars. Are they evading the tax though? You may be shocked but some of the discounts are not actually tax free but just a way of getting your business there and then.

As for the common knowledge they evade taxes, well some say there is a monster in Loch Ness, others say there are mermaids and yetis but hear say and rumour are precisely that. Some PEOPLE evade tax that's a fact but to say one racial group does it more than others is...... "

I wasn't aware that travellers were a race of people???

For sure I'm aware that tradesmen offer cash prices, and as for car dealerships wavering the VAT on new cars - that's just the wording of the offer, the dealership will have to pay the VAT itself out of it's own profits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"very true, however they were evicted and told not to return and if they do then prison.

so how much is it going to cost to arrest them all????

How can someone say they will face prison before trial and sentencing? I think you have your facts wrong."

It may be a statutory sentence for defying the court. They do exist in civil law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The travellers own the land, it was purchased in 2001 by one of the travellers for £120,000.

I wonder how much this individual had to earn to amass such a small fortune. He'd obviously had to spend money on living costs whilst amassing his fortune so he must have earned well in excess of £120k - and paid tax on it?

Or....maybe he just worked hard?

I think it's a sweeping generalisation widely used by the British public that no travellers pay tax, or work hard....

Is this a fact?....or just something we all assume because that's what we have been led to believe over the years?

I've had them knock on my door looking for odd jobs to do and offer a cash price. If a guy is earning enough to save £120k then he should be VAT registered as a matter of legality, yet they offer cash prices when touting for business. I know you know they do Jane, and it is common knowledge that they evade taxes by doing cash jobs, it's just so very difficult to prove.

I think you will find many tradesmen offer a cash discount not just travellers. Some car dealerships have offered no VAT over the last 18 months on new cars. Are they evading the tax though? You may be shocked but some of the discounts are not actually tax free but just a way of getting your business there and then.

As for the common knowledge they evade taxes, well some say there is a monster in Loch Ness, others say there are mermaids and yetis but hear say and rumour are precisely that. Some PEOPLE evade tax that's a fact but to say one racial group does it more than others is......

I wasn't aware that travellers were a race of people???

For sure I'm aware that tradesmen offer cash prices, and as for car dealerships wavering the VAT on new cars - that's just the wording of the offer, the dealership will have to pay the VAT itself out of it's own profits."

Ask a Romany about travellers, they will enlighten you.

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