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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. " As a livestock farmer myself, this is bollocks. No industry should be beyond scrutiny. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. " Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. " What you call becoming a national sport, I would call people becoming aware. Anyway don't take it personally. I was bashing the industry you work in, not you as a person. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. As a livestock farmer myself, this is bollocks. No industry should be beyond scrutiny." Scrutiny, yes but all i hear is mindless rhetoric. I don't consider them to be one and the same, do you? | |||
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"Don't think anyone is "bashing" farmers just farming practices. Livestock farming is a nessesary evil but has already been said (by a farmer) all practices should be scrutinised. There is always room for improvement especially where animal welfare is concerned. "  | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. As a livestock farmer myself, this is bollocks. No industry should be beyond scrutiny. Scrutiny, yes but all i hear is mindless rhetoric. I don't consider them to be one and the same, do you?" Not really, no. I think it's possibly because there is a massive disconnect between people and their food. Most people simply do not have and do not understand the person/livestock relationship, having only ever had pets. There is an awful lot of propaganda out there, mostly relating to farming practices elsewhere (particularly the USA), all we can do is try and educate the public about what happens here. The "hormones" comment on the other thread was an example of this- growth hormones are banned in the EU. The problem with a lack of scrutiny is it leads to situations like the USA, where there are literally no welfare regulations at all and the routine way in which some animals are kept (particularly pigs) is indefensible. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. As a livestock farmer myself, this is bollocks. No industry should be beyond scrutiny. Scrutiny, yes but all i hear is mindless rhetoric. I don't consider them to be one and the same, do you? Not really, no. I think it's possibly because there is a massive disconnect between people and their food. Most people simply do not have and do not understand the person/livestock relationship, having only ever had pets. There is an awful lot of propaganda out there, mostly relating to farming practices elsewhere (particularly the USA), all we can do is try and educate the public about what happens here. The "hormones" comment on the other thread was an example of this- growth hormones are banned in the EU. The problem with a lack of scrutiny is it leads to situations like the USA, where there are literally no welfare regulations at all and the routine way in which some animals are kept (particularly pigs) is indefensible." Don't get me wrong, i believe scrutiny is essential. I would just prefer it to come from professionals and not part time sofa warriors who happen to have read something on facebook. As for the disconnect i completely agree, the general public needs to be better educated and informed. Maybe then i'll begin to take their comments seriously. Comments such as pumped full of growth hormones and antibiotics really get my back up because i know how ridiculous they are. We have the highest animal welfare standards anywhere in the world, people should realise that. | |||
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"Hell yeah, if there's one thing i can't stand, it's vegans" I don't know about that I've never had beef with a vegan! 
I'll get my coat..... | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. " This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. " I thought he was being ironic. | |||
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"It takes the heart off of the estate agents and insurance industry i guess. " Not forgetting the traffic wardens. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. "  | |||
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"It takes the heart off of the estate agents and insurance industry i guess. Not forgetting the traffic wardens. " Exactly. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. " Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady." That's not been my experience. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. As a livestock farmer myself, this is bollocks. No industry should be beyond scrutiny. Scrutiny, yes but all i hear is mindless rhetoric. I don't consider them to be one and the same, do you? Not really, no. I think it's possibly because there is a massive disconnect between people and their food. Most people simply do not have and do not understand the person/livestock relationship, having only ever had pets. There is an awful lot of propaganda out there, mostly relating to farming practices elsewhere (particularly the USA), all we can do is try and educate the public about what happens here. The "hormones" comment on the other thread was an example of this- growth hormones are banned in the EU. The problem with a lack of scrutiny is it leads to situations like the USA, where there are literally no welfare regulations at all and the routine way in which some animals are kept (particularly pigs) is indefensible." 'You make pigs smoke'. | |||
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"Hell yeah, if there's one thing i can't stand, it's vegans" Vegans are very sensitive people
(Another sweeping statement) | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience." In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. " £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? " That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. " Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay." Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? " So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. | |||
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"Quite a lot of my pals are dairy farmers and have a sidline rearing sheep to try and make ends meet . Soaring feed and fuel prices are hitting them hard . I've worked on farms it's bloody hard long hours and no days off . We shoukd all support our farmers . We are so used to paying low food prices we forget the low margins the producers get " Do you think leaving the EU will have an impact on farmers? | |||
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"Quite a lot of my pals are dairy farmers and have a sidline rearing sheep to try and make ends meet . Soaring feed and fuel prices are hitting them hard . I've worked on farms it's bloody hard long hours and no days off . We shoukd all support our farmers . We are so used to paying low food prices we forget the low margins the producers get Do you think leaving the EU will have an impact on farmers?" I think it will hammer them hard .especially the hill farmers of North Wales | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies." Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. " I understand your point of view but i don't think it's fair to use world market prices as a benchmark. Animal welfare is too important to be ignored and i don't believe it's nonsense to suggest that this doesn't play a role. Is it not true that if you were to enforce those same standards in foreign countries their production costs and produce would rise as a result. Farmers are responsible for far more than mere food production. For the work they do and the hours they put in they're welcome to their £39,000. If the industry is as lucrative as you suggest then how come it's in such rapid decline? | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. I understand your point of view but i don't think it's fair to use world market prices as a benchmark. Animal welfare is too important to be ignored and i don't believe it's nonsense to suggest that this doesn't play a role. Is it not true that if you were to enforce those same standards in foreign countries their production costs and produce would rise as a result. Farmers are responsible for far more than mere food production. For the work they do and the hours they put in they're welcome to their £39,000. If the industry is as lucrative as you suggest then how come it's in such rapid decline?" Possibly because the value of agricultural land has increased Massively so farmers are cashing in and selling up? | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. I understand your point of view but i don't think it's fair to use world market prices as a benchmark. Animal welfare is too important to be ignored and i don't believe it's nonsense to suggest that this doesn't play a role. Is it not true that if you were to enforce those same standards in foreign countries their production costs and produce would rise as a result. Farmers are responsible for far more than mere food production. For the work they do and the hours they put in they're welcome to their £39,000. If the industry is as lucrative as you suggest then how come it's in such rapid decline? Possibly because the value of agricultural land has increased Massively so farmers are cashing in and selling up? " Then it's not lucrative enough to keep, maybe there's a few exceptions but i don't believe that's the reason. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. I understand your point of view but i don't think it's fair to use world market prices as a benchmark. Animal welfare is too important to be ignored and i don't believe it's nonsense to suggest that this doesn't play a role. Is it not true that if you were to enforce those same standards in foreign countries their production costs and produce would rise as a result. Farmers are responsible for far more than mere food production. For the work they do and the hours they put in they're welcome to their £39,000. If the industry is as lucrative as you suggest then how come it's in such rapid decline? Possibly because the value of agricultural land has increased Massively so farmers are cashing in and selling up? Then it's not lucrative enough to keep, maybe there's a few exceptions but i don't believe that's the reason." No, the value has gone up four fold since 2004. Hence many farmers may decide they will be better off selling their land and investing the money. The reason the land is so valuable is because of the subsidies it attracts. | |||
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"I'd actually gladly pay a bit more if it guaranteed higher welfare and care for the animals, including during the slaughter process. I don't eat meat when I go outside of the UK because of the shite welfare in other countries. If we had to start importing all our meat I'd go vegetarian as I refuse to support industrial sized factory farming where the animals are abused and have miserable, short lives filled with suffering" If you want to help try to source your produce locally direct from the farm where you can be assured of it's provenance. Also Morrisons sell a range of dairy produce that states quite clearly on the packaging how much extra goes directly to farmers. I think that's a great idea and would like to see it become more common. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. " Who, when, how (etc) are bashing them? I see plenty of praise for them | |||
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"People slate farmers but the country would be up the creek without them." | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. That's not been my experience. In 2016-17 average farm income was £39000. £25000 was in subsidies. I. E. Paid by the taxpayers. £39,000 is not a great deal of money. Balanced against increased production costs and decreased value of produce, what do you think that leaves? That's the profit after production costs. . The average UK wage is about £28000, so farmers are relatively comfortably off. Ok, so the subsidies are there so that consumers don't have to pay a fair price for produce and a proportion is used to fund emvironmental protection schemes. Either way the consumer should pay. Food would be cheap if we imported it from abroad. Most farmers would go bankrupt if they had to operate in a completely free market. What other industry has around 65% of its income in handouts from the state? So you would rather eat imported produce knowing that it comes with reduced animal welfare just to save a few quid, not to mention the increased environmental cost of transporting it in the first place. If farmers got a fair price they wouldn't be so reliant on subsidies. Consumers paying above the world market price. (presumably enforced by the government)would be just as much a subsidy as a direct state handout. It's nonsense to suggest that it's animal welfare standards that cause the massive subsidies British farmers obtain. European farmers in the whole are, in world terms, inefficient, but European governments decided for political and security reasons that they wanted to keep a farming industry. Hence the subsidies. There may be very good reasons for those subsidies, but it's a bit much when people from the most feather bedded industry in the country say they have it tough. Look at coal miners and steel workers? When we could get their products cheaper abroad, their industries were closed down and communities destroyed. As I say. That hasn't happened to farmers. I understand your point of view but i don't think it's fair to use world market prices as a benchmark. Animal welfare is too important to be ignored and i don't believe it's nonsense to suggest that this doesn't play a role. Is it not true that if you were to enforce those same standards in foreign countries their production costs and produce would rise as a result. Farmers are responsible for far more than mere food production. For the work they do and the hours they put in they're welcome to their £39,000. If the industry is as lucrative as you suggest then how come it's in such rapid decline? Possibly because the value of agricultural land has increased Massively so farmers are cashing in and selling up? Then it's not lucrative enough to keep, maybe there's a few exceptions but i don't believe that's the reason. No, the value has gone up four fold since 2004. Hence many farmers may decide they will be better off selling their land and investing the money. The reason the land is so valuable is because of the subsidies it attracts. " So who are the farmers selling there land to and what subsidies does it attract? | |||
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"The £39000 is average farm income...that is not a wage the farmer is payed. This is what money is received by the business before any costs such as fuel , feed, labour are taken off. Most farms like many small businesses don't make much profit as any profit is taxed so tends to be all reinvested where needed. Some farmers admittedly think that a range rover is needed! Others will change machinery or erect a new fence ECT. As for subsidies. Essentially they are for keeping food cheap. Take away subs and food becomes a lot more expensive. Most farmers would prefer to have no subs but the general public do not want to pay a shed load more money for their food shopping. It's a daft system. We pay taxes , to subsidise farmers to get cheap food instead of having no subs, pay less tax and settle for paying more for food!" So the £39,000 is not profit after all? I didn't think so. You're right about it being a ridiculous system, you have confirmed what i've always believed to be true. It's about time people started paying what their food is actually worth rather than subsidising to keep it cheap. Paying more is not a form of subsidy if the food is at an artificially low price to begin with. | |||
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"The £39000 is average farm income...that is not a wage the farmer is payed. This is what money is received by the business before any costs such as fuel , feed, labour are taken off. Most farms like many small businesses don't make much profit as any profit is taxed so tends to be all reinvested where needed. Some farmers admittedly think that a range rover is needed! Others will change machinery or erect a new fence ECT. As for subsidies. Essentially they are for keeping food cheap. Take away subs and food becomes a lot more expensive. Most farmers would prefer to have no subs but the general public do not want to pay a shed load more money for their food shopping. It's a daft system. We pay taxes , to subsidise farmers to get cheap food instead of having no subs, pay less tax and settle for paying more for food!" 
The £39000 is gross profit after all costs are paid, so it is equivalent to a wage.
As I said, we could get cheaper food from abroad, so food prices wouldn't go up if there weren't subsidies, just that a lot of British farmers would be driven out of business by foreign competition .
There be many good reasons not to rely on foreign food supplies, but you could equally say that about foreign energy supplies.
That didn't save the miners. | |||
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"The £39000 is average farm income...that is not a wage the farmer is payed. This is what money is received by the business before any costs such as fuel , feed, labour are taken off. Most farms like many small businesses don't make much profit as any profit is taxed so tends to be all reinvested where needed. Some farmers admittedly think that a range rover is needed! Others will change machinery or erect a new fence ECT. As for subsidies. Essentially they are for keeping food cheap. Take away subs and food becomes a lot more expensive. Most farmers would prefer to have no subs but the general public do not want to pay a shed load more money for their food shopping. It's a daft system. We pay taxes , to subsidise farmers to get cheap food instead of having no subs, pay less tax and settle for paying more for food!
The £39000 is gross profit after all costs are paid, so it is equivalent to a wage.
As I said, we could get cheaper food from abroad, so food prices wouldn't go up if there weren't subsidies, just that a lot of British farmers would be driven out of business by foreign competition .
There be many good reasons not to rely on foreign food supplies, but you could equally say that about foreign energy supplies.
That didn't save the miners. "Again, farmers are responsible for so much more than mere food production. | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady." So then you should know some farming just isn't financially viable. The consumer benefits from the subsidies, not the farmer. We need subsidies to be able to produce affordable food. People already complain about food prices, take away the subsidy and food prices will soar through the roof. | |||
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"At the end of day if you give two shits about animal welfare and the environment support British farming. Look out for the little red tractor. " Exactly | |||
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"Another light hearted anecdote goes awry. Farmer bashing seems to have become a national sport and quite frankly i'm sick to death of it. These people who work tirelessly and diligently to feed the nation should be applauded, not vilified. Farmers get plenty of subsidiaries and benefits, you never see a poor farmer. This is a typical comment from someone who clearly has no knowledge and understanding of farming. Ive worked on a dairy farm, I’ve got family who are farmers, where I’ve helped out. I’m a builder currently working on a farm on Dartmoor. Apart from that I’ve never set on a farm. They do just fine lady. So then you should know some farming just isn't financially viable. The consumer benefits from the subsidies, not the farmer. We need subsidies to be able to produce affordable food. People already complain about food prices, take away the subsidy and food prices will soar through the roof." Wasn't the case in NZ was it? I managed to farm sheep successfully without subsidy. I can see subsidies being needed in marginal, upland areas but other than that..... | |||
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"Hell yeah, if there's one thing i can't stand, it's vegans I don't know about that I've never had beef with a vegan!
I'll get my coat....."Starts a slow clap  | |||
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