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"Head for the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for it all to blow over " | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do?" Id wait for you to kill that other guy and then come knocking on your door  | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id wait for you to kill that other guy and then come knocking on your door "But your survival depends on what you can bring to the table. | |||
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"And I only came online for a bit of entertainment "This is not entertaining?  | |||
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"Head for the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for it all to blow over "Read my op. There is no Winchester, there is no pint and it will never blow over. | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do?" I’m prepared for Armageddon. So therefore, if I’m prepared, it won’t happen. Shit only happens to me when I’m not prepared. That’s my logic anyway. | |||
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"There'll be no armageddon in our life time anyway. Tough times maybe but no armageddon " Of course but that's not the point, i'm asking you to use your imagination, to think a little. | |||
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"There'll be no armageddon in our life time anyway. Tough times maybe but no armageddon Of course but that's not the point, i'm asking you to use your imagination, to think a little." Well I'm really disciplined with food and drink and can go without most comforts. To be honest I'd nearly enjoy stock piling resources and taking what I wanted a needed with a group of family and friends as you'd need alliances. Be way more exciting than today's life haha | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do?" Id add you as a friend here and hope you would swap food for foof | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id add you as a friend here and hope you would swap food for foof "What's foof? Is it a skill, can you eat it? | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id add you as a friend here and hope you would swap food for foof
What's foof? Is it a skill, can you eat it? "Foof...Vagina | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id add you as a friend here and hope you would swap food for foof
What's foof? Is it a skill, can you eat it?
Foof...Vagina "I googled it. I got Dioxygen difluoride and something that looks like a giant bean bag. Now i feel like a bit of a numpty. Seems like a fair trade though. | |||
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"I think I could survive. Whether I'd actually want to is a different matter." Indeed. A great many people believe suicide to be the better option. | |||
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"I'm under no illusions that in this kind of situation amoral thugs would quickly dominate and/or kill off all the nice people. Might would momentarily prevail over civilisation. But pretty soon after that it would be the cunning who would start to twist things to their advantage. Luckily for me, as someone who isn't inclined to amoral thuggery, few amoral thugs have much between their ears and the ones who do will quickly kill off the ones who don't for me. I just have to bide my time staying hidden, stealing their food, and wait until I can trick them into locking themselves in a burning building. Then I'll bring peace and stability back to the region, marry an absolutely stunningly sexy woman, and be crowned hero just before the credits roll "In a situation such as this morality becomes irrelevant so there is no moral/amoral. Where the thug rules the only way to survive is to become the bigger thug. | |||
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"I'm under no illusions that in this kind of situation amoral thugs would quickly dominate and/or kill off all the nice people. Might would momentarily prevail over civilisation. But pretty soon after that it would be the cunning who would start to twist things to their advantage. Luckily for me, as someone who isn't inclined to amoral thuggery, few amoral thugs have much between their ears and the ones who do will quickly kill off the ones who don't for me. I just have to bide my time staying hidden, stealing their food, and wait until I can trick them into locking themselves in a burning building. Then I'll bring peace and stability back to the region, marry an absolutely stunningly sexy woman, and be crowned hero just before the credits roll
In a situation such as this morality becomes irrelevant so there is no moral/amoral. Where the thug rules the only way to survive is to become the bigger thug."Only if it is beneficial to be one. Collectivism can deal with a rogue thug through the numerical advantage. Also; people would re-learn that certain places have a better climate to produce certain things than others, thus a basis for trade is established. | |||
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"I'm under no illusions that in this kind of situation amoral thugs would quickly dominate and/or kill off all the nice people. Might would momentarily prevail over civilisation. But pretty soon after that it would be the cunning who would start to twist things to their advantage. Luckily for me, as someone who isn't inclined to amoral thuggery, few amoral thugs have much between their ears and the ones who do will quickly kill off the ones who don't for me. I just have to bide my time staying hidden, stealing their food, and wait until I can trick them into locking themselves in a burning building. Then I'll bring peace and stability back to the region, marry an absolutely stunningly sexy woman, and be crowned hero just before the credits roll
In a situation such as this morality becomes irrelevant so there is no moral/amoral. Where the thug rules the only way to survive is to become the bigger thug.
Only if it is beneficial to be one. Collectivism can deal with a rogue thug through the numerical advantage.
Also; people would re-learn that certain places have a better climate to produce certain things than others, thus a basis for trade is established. "Intelligence and social cohesion will always trump thuggery... in the end. Morality is central to social cohesion. It affirms to those who are willing to support you that you are wedded to a common cause wider than your own. You may succeed in killing off one farmer. Or even two or three. But eventually the moral will join to annihilate the villains once again | |||
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"I think I could survive. Whether I'd actually want to is a different matter." I never want to survive and yet somehow I do. I'd go to bed with however many Zopiclone I have at that time. That will save some resources. | |||
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"Head for the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for it all to blow over "Lol  | |||
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"I'm under no illusions that in this kind of situation amoral thugs would quickly dominate and/or kill off all the nice people. Might would momentarily prevail over civilisation. But pretty soon after that it would be the cunning who would start to twist things to their advantage. Luckily for me, as someone who isn't inclined to amoral thuggery, few amoral thugs have much between their ears and the ones who do will quickly kill off the ones who don't for me. I just have to bide my time staying hidden, stealing their food, and wait until I can trick them into locking themselves in a burning building. Then I'll bring peace and stability back to the region, marry an absolutely stunningly sexy woman, and be crowned hero just before the credits roll
In a situation such as this morality becomes irrelevant so there is no moral/amoral. Where the thug rules the only way to survive is to become the bigger thug.
Only if it is beneficial to be one. Collectivism can deal with a rogue thug through the numerical advantage.
Also; people would re-learn that certain places have a better climate to produce certain things than others, thus a basis for trade is established.
Intelligence and social cohesion will always trump thuggery... in the end. Morality is central to social cohesion. It affirms to those who are willing to support you that you are wedded to a common cause wider than your own. You may succeed in killing off one farmer. Or even two or three. But eventually the moral will join to annihilate the villains once again "This is assuming you survive the initial slaughter, any kind of social cohesion will come much further down the line which is not what my op was about. | |||
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"Humanity survived before technology, we could survive after it. Knowledge lost can be knowledge regained. " If you go back to 1700 before the great agricultural revolution the population of Great Britain was 5.5 million, currently it stands at 66 million. We produce less than 60% of the food we need. There will be no imports, no ships, no planes, indeed nothing at all with an engine. You say that lost technology can be regained? Much of it is built on fossil fuels, without that how can this be possible? Nuclear reactors will fail because we won't be able to maintain them devastating vast tracts of land, we will no longer be able to build wind turbines and solar cells. There will be no more plastic. I think perhaps now you see the problem. | |||
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"Did you actually say that at a conference? That's hilarious." It was an esoteric conference, i guess that's what makes all the difference.  | |||
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"Humanity survived before technology, we could survive after it. Knowledge lost can be knowledge regained. If you go back to 1700 before the great agricultural revolution the population of Great Britain was 5.5 million, currently it stands at 66 million. We produce less than 60% of the food we need. There will be no imports, no ships, no planes, indeed nothing at all with an engine. You say that lost technology can be regained? Much of it is built on fossil fuels, without that how can this be possible? Nuclear reactors will fail because we won't be able to maintain them devastating vast tracts of land, we will no longer be able to build wind turbines and solar cells. There will be no more plastic. I think perhaps now you see the problem." Humans are remarkably adaptable you know. Given that solar cells already exist, power from them could be used to create a number of things, it's a snowball effect. I'd give it a very short amount of time before existing computers could be used again... All sorts of things can turn a turbine. .. | |||
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"This is assuming you survive the initial slaughter, any kind of social cohesion will come much further down the line which is not what my op was about." But your initial slaughter will be so myopic. Ug. Need food. Kill farmer. Ug. Need water. Kill person with well. It'll be, quite frankly, easy to run rings around you. Thuggery quickly gives way to intelligent organised criminality. I'd be the annoying guy who leads a band of people who keep on stealing stuff when you weren't looking. You could try getting someone to stand watch for us whilst you're away. But you wouldn't have any friends due to your self defeating selfish mindedness. You may have scared some people into helping you but they'd be easily turned. All hypothetically of course | |||
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"Humanity survived before technology, we could survive after it. Knowledge lost can be knowledge regained. If you go back to 1700 before the great agricultural revolution the population of Great Britain was 5.5 million, currently it stands at 66 million. We produce less than 60% of the food we need. There will be no imports, no ships, no planes, indeed nothing at all with an engine. You say that lost technology can be regained? Much of it is built on fossil fuels, without that how can this be possible? Nuclear reactors will fail because we won't be able to maintain them devastating vast tracts of land, we will no longer be able to build wind turbines and solar cells. There will be no more plastic. I think perhaps now you see the problem." We have been building ocean crossing ships for centuries and only in the last couple have we come to rely on powered vessels rather than the wind. | |||
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"This is assuming you survive the initial slaughter, any kind of social cohesion will come much further down the line which is not what my op was about. But your initial slaughter will be so myopic. Ug. Need food. Kill farmer. Ug. Need water. Kill person with well. It'll be, quite frankly, easy to run rings around you. Thuggery quickly gives way to intelligent organised criminality. I'd be the annoying guy who leads a band of people who keep on stealing stuff when you weren't looking. You could try getting someone to stand watch for us whilst you're away. But you wouldn't have any friends due to your self defeating selfish mindedness. You may have scared some people into helping you but they'd be easily turned. All hypothetically of course "No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. | |||
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"Start listening to Jordan Peterson and then come on to Fabs for light relief and it's the plot from The Walking Dead and Lord of the Rings. "I'm sure Jordan Peterson would approve, however, of this wanton display of macho thuggery | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help." See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery | |||
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"Humanity survived before technology, we could survive after it. Knowledge lost can be knowledge regained. If you go back to 1700 before the great agricultural revolution the population of Great Britain was 5.5 million, currently it stands at 66 million. We produce less than 60% of the food we need. There will be no imports, no ships, no planes, indeed nothing at all with an engine. You say that lost technology can be regained? Much of it is built on fossil fuels, without that how can this be possible? Nuclear reactors will fail because we won't be able to maintain them devastating vast tracts of land, we will no longer be able to build wind turbines and solar cells. There will be no more plastic. I think perhaps now you see the problem. We have been building ocean crossing ships for centuries and only in the last couple have we come to rely on powered vessels rather than the wind. " Yes, sailing ships. How many people alive now know how to build one and how many of those will survive the initial cull. Plus all of our machinery would become useless after only a few days. It's back to doing everything manually which takes time. Also this would happen on a global scale so what exactly would you use the ships for? Sailing to France only to be killed by the ravening hordes there? This will begin with a collosal and sudden reduction in population with the strongest winning out,i can't imagine many learned men would survive that. Plus much of our existing written knowledge would be destroyed in the rioting. Solar panels have a limited life span as do wind turbines, we would not be able to build more. Everything will be flung back, transport will be a horse and cart - assuming they haven't all been eaten, or at best an old traction engine if we can still get a few lumps of coal out of the ground and who the fuck knows how to operate one of those. | |||
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"Start listening to Jordan Peterson and then come on to Fabs for light relief and it's the plot from The Walking Dead and Lord of the Rings.
I'm sure Jordan Peterson would approve, however, of this wanton display of macho thuggery "Meant to post Lord of the Flies but my edited comment kept disappearing on my phone. So gave up. Well caught!
Yes, he is a tad macho...a tad... | |||
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"So what would you do?" . Put the dog, the hiking and camping gear in the car, and get as far away from everyone as possible. . Then, probably, slowly starve to death as I learn that my survival skills are not as good as I hoped. . I’ll never eat the dog, though. | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery "Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone. Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me. | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do?" You've run out of Marmite again, haven't you? | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me."Humans were nomads for millennia before they settled into agricultural communities. Some say the invention of kingship or local government was crucial to facilitating this. In your scenario no such rule exists. Therefore the people who survive will be those who revert to a nomadic scavenging life. You're going to sit on a farm imagining your safe when you're just a sitting duck. You may know a lot about berries. But you don't know anything about strategy. And it's strategists who will survive, particularly those who can win others to their cause. Perhaps you'd be willing to join me and be my underling? | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? You've run out of Marmite again, haven't you?" How did you guess? | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me.
Humans were nomads for millennia before they settled into agricultural communities. Some say the invention of kingship or local government was crucial to facilitating this. In your scenario no such rule exists. Therefore the people who survive will be those who revert to a nomadic scavenging life. You're going to sit on a farm imagining your safe when you're just a sitting duck. You may know a lot about berries. But you don't know anything about strategy. And it's strategists who will survive, particularly those who can win others to their cause. Perhaps you'd be willing to join me and be my underling? "The nomads you are referring to understood their surroundings and how best to utilise it for their own needs, can you say that about yourself? I'm guessing you must have trained with the marines or something. Can you start a fire once your lighter's empty and your matches are damp? Do you know where to find King Alfred's cakes and what they're for? | |||
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"Head for the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for it all to blow over " | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id wait for you to kill that other guy and then come knocking on your door
But your survival depends on what you can bring to the table."Some fava beans for his liver and a nice chianti? | |||
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"I love it when this topic turns into a willy-waving ‘I will last longer than you’ thing." I have to admit thay wasn't my intention. | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id wait for you to kill that other guy and then come knocking on your door
But your survival depends on what you can bring to the table.
Some fava beans for his liver and a nice chianti?
"Deal, you're in. | |||
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"So what would you do? . Put the dog, the hiking and camping gear in the car, and get as far away from everyone as possible. . Then, probably, slowly starve to death as I learn that my survival skills are not as good as I hoped. .have a good working dog ferrets and nets your survival just got easier I’ll never eat the dog, though." | |||
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"So what would you do? . Put the dog, the hiking and camping gear in the car, and get as far away from everyone as possible. . Then, probably, slowly starve to death as I learn that my survival skills are not as good as I hoped. .have a good working dog ferrets and nets your survival just got easier I’ll never eat the dog, though." Eating the dogs has been the death of many a Polar explorer. Dog livers contain massive amounts of Vitamin A which the human body simply can't expel quickly enough. End result: Death  | |||
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"So what would you do? . Put the dog, the hiking and camping gear in the car, and get as far away from everyone as possible. . Then, probably, slowly starve to death as I learn that my survival skills are not as good as I hoped. .have a good hunting dog or dogs ferrets and nets your survival just got easier I’ll never eat the dog, though." | |||
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"have a good working dog ferrets and nets your survival just got easier" My dog is a Staffie cross, she’s built for it. Unfortunately, she’s a total sweetheart who I’m sure would sooner starve than kill a rabbit. She only chases them becsuse she wants to be friends; she obviously slows up when she gets close. . I do hope thst the absence of tinned food would change her mindset. | |||
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"I love it when this topic turns into a willy-waving ‘I will last longer than you’ thing." I've been amused by doc moving the goal posts. One minute he's just some thug who murders a poor genteel farmer at his esoteric meeting. The next he's a savvy survivalist with an army at his side. It's all been amusingly childish. I hope the op meant it that way because I have been enjoying it | |||
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"You see the issue here is that the first wave of violence would come from the unimaginative thugs whose microwaves were no longer able to heat up their defrosted pizzas and they'd just kill some old granny for her food instead. You're now talking about a savvy survivalist type. You might already have been killed by some muscle head who simply wanted your lighter. Those who can see what's coming will quickly go to ground. But I must confess who of us would genuinely imagine civilisation was actually going to fall? So we may all be taken aback by it. In short, we'd be plunged right back into Darwinian survival again. No I don't mean survival of the strongest. That's a misunderstanding of what Darwin meant by "fittest". I mean adaptation. Those who adapt quickest to the new situation survive. That's likely to involve some pretty flexible thinking as well as team work. Neither of these things were present in your op " But quick thinking was and an ability to do anything in order ensure the survival of me and mine. Of that Darwin would approve. But you still haven't told me how you would survive, go to ground if you like but you still need to eat, find clean drinking water, keep warm. Plus you're assuming you will be able to gather a 'team' around you. Do you think that's likely, will you be able to trust them, will their skill sets improve your chances or will they be a hindrance? | |||
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"You see the issue here is that the first wave of violence would come from the unimaginative thugs whose microwaves were no longer able to heat up their defrosted pizzas and they'd just kill some old granny for her food instead. You're now talking about a savvy survivalist type. You might already have been killed by some muscle head who simply wanted your lighter. Those who can see what's coming will quickly go to ground. But I must confess who of us would genuinely imagine civilisation was actually going to fall? So we may all be taken aback by it. In short, we'd be plunged right back into Darwinian survival again. No I don't mean survival of the strongest. That's a misunderstanding of what Darwin meant by "fittest". I mean adaptation. Those who adapt quickest to the new situation survive. That's likely to involve some pretty flexible thinking as well as team work. Neither of these things were present in your op But quick thinking was and an ability to do anything in order ensure the survival of me and mine. Of that Darwin would approve. But you still haven't told me how you would survive, go to ground if you like but you still need to eat, find clean drinking water, keep warm. Plus you're assuming you will be able to gather a 'team' around you. Do you think that's likely, will you be able to trust them, will their skill sets improve your chances or will they be a hindrance?" Ps, i have read much of Darwin's work and understand it and how the natural world works. | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me."I'm wherever Ray Means is going. | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me.
I'm wherever Ray Means is going."I've met him. | |||
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"But quick thinking was and an ability to do anything in order ensure the survival of me and mine. Of that Darwin would approve." Not so. It's now clear that organising group effort is clearly advantageous over going it alone in many species, especially primates. The old view that Darwin was on about selfish strong creatures is totally debunked. Central to social cohesion, even at a small tribal level, is morality, kindness, humour, intelligence, wisdom and, dare I say it, spirituality. Within this there is of course a place for brawn. But muscle isn't king. You're right that amorality would probably prevail initially. But it wouldn't last long. Just think of those silly Bond villains with their henchmen. I mean who'd want to be a henchman? "Do this or I'll kill you!" Not the best of bosses
If the premise of your op was that amoral brawn would prevail over moral intelligence I disagree. It may have a very fleeting initial advantage. But all you amoral thugs would soon kill each other off. That's because ugly myopic selfishness actually isn't advantageous whatsoever. Like a wild fire, it soon burns itself out. Meanwhile the moral, the intelligent, help each other, hide, share knowledge, and wait until the tables are ripe for turning | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do?" We would die happy , knowing we had fulfilled all our deepest desires . We wouldn’t fight , steal , beg or even try to survive .  | |||
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"But quick thinking was and an ability to do anything in order ensure the survival of me and mine. Of that Darwin would approve. Not so. It's now clear that organising group effort is clearly advantageous over going it alone in many species, especially primates. The old view that Darwin was on about selfish strong creatures is totally debunked. Central to social cohesion, even at a small tribal level, is morality, kindness, humour, intelligence, wisdom and, dare I say it, spirituality. Within this there is of course a place for brawn. But muscle isn't king. You're right that amorality would probably prevail initially. But it wouldn't last long. Just think of those silly Bond villains with their henchmen. I mean who'd want to be a henchman? "Do this or I'll kill you!" Not the best of bosses
If the premise of your op was that amoral brawn would prevail over moral intelligence I disagree. It may have a very fleeting initial advantage. But all you amoral thugs would soon kill each other off. That's because ugly myopic selfishness actually isn't advantageous whatsoever. Like a wild fire, it soon burns itself out. Meanwhile the moral, the intelligent, help each other, hide, share knowledge, and wait until the tables are ripe for turning "Moral intelligence does not put food in your belly nor does it keep you warm. You are assuming that what you consider thuggishness - i call survival instinct - suggests that i am unintelligent, that's quite a leap. You are also assuming i will be alone. To underestimate someone to that degree guarantees your failure. Once the wildfire burns itself out i expect to still be here. Also i'm still waiting to hear what you're planning to do in order to survive while you've gone to ground. | |||
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"Also i'm still waiting to hear what you're planning to do in order to survive while you've gone to ground. " I'm going to eat Gloswingers Mmm. Munch munch munch. Anyone got any chianti? | |||
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"Also i'm still waiting to hear what you're planning to do in order to survive while you've gone to ground. I'm going to eat Gloswingers Mmm. Munch munch munch. Anyone got any chianti? "And we are happy to help | |||
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"The end times are coming, of that i have no doubt i just don't know when. This is the one time i agree with the God botherers, only in my version there will be no salvation. You see it now, a community loses a few basic utilities for a few days and immediately there's rioting, pillaging, even murder. So what would happen when this loss becomes our foreland, oil finally runs out and we lose everything? We are all animals with base animalistic instincts however much we try to deny it. We paste upon ourselves this thin veneer which we refer to as 'being civilised' and pretend we're not like that yet it's all fake, a hologram that falls away at the slightest hardship. What would happen when everything is stripped away, when your most valuable possessions are a reed basket and a sharp stick? This question came up at the end of an esoteric conference a few years ago when the room was thrown open to general discussion. There was a gentleman there who quite smugly said he had a small holding and was virtually self sufficient, of course i have none of this. I shrugged my shoulders at him, looked him in the eye with a steely gaze and said quite flatly, "if it means the survival of my family i will kill you, i will kill your family, i will eat you and i will take everything you have for my own". That seemed to freak him out somewhat. It appears that some of us are more in touch with our inner animal than others. So what would you do? Id add you as a friend here and hope you would swap food for foof
What's foof? Is it a skill, can you eat it? "Damn right you can...for hours hehehe | |||
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"So the ones who know how to hunt,kill and prepare meat will all of a sudden have lots of best mates. Like the OP,I've got a longbow and I can make arrows, so the jobs a good Un. I can also make a nice bender which can withstand gale force winds....so yep OP I'd give it a good go." Now we're talking. That's an impressive skill set and very useful, much more so than banging on about moral intelligence. If you ever find yourself at my freshly acquired small holding there's a place for you if you want it. | |||
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btw I've changed my mind Gloswingers. I'll keep you both as hot water bottles to keep me warm at night. BUT NO FUNNY BUSINESS MR!!!! | |||
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"Wasn't there a channel 4 reality tv series where a bunch of us wet behind the ears Westerners had to survive on a remote Scottish island, some twatty men went all macho, pissing everyone off, ordering the women to do domestic chores and other such misogynistic stuff, and virtually everyone left? Rings a bell. Social cohesion guys. Social cohesion. Just because you've memorised a copy of the sas survival guide doesn't mean you're equipped to survive... let alone lead. You may end up just pissing everyone else off with all that testosterone
btw I've changed my mind Gloswingers. I'll keep you both as hot water bottles to keep me warm at night. BUT NO FUNNY BUSINESS MR!!!! " | |||
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"So the ones who know how to hunt,kill and prepare meat will all of a sudden have lots of best mates. Like the OP,I've got a longbow and I can make arrows, so the jobs a good Un. I can also make a nice bender which can withstand gale force winds....so yep OP I'd give it a good go. Now we're talking. That's an impressive skill set and very useful, much more so than banging on about moral intelligence. If you ever find yourself at my freshly acquired small holding there's a place for you if you want it." Stoke the fire,I'll bring something for the table. | |||
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"I'd welcome it. I'm bored out of my mind! Trapped in a dead end job and cant be arsed to get a new one - up to my eyeballs in debt and glued to my phone / laptop most of the time. I have everything yet nothing. Bring on the apocalypse I say "This | |||
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"I'd welcome it. I'm bored out of my mind! Trapped in a dead end job and cant be arsed to get a new one - up to my eyeballs in debt and glued to my phone / laptop most of the time. I have everything yet nothing. Bring on the apocalypse I say
You’ll be lucky, if you glued to your phone, at least you’ll get a heads up when the apocalypse hits. I’m sure the news will break through Facebook first.
This " | |||
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"So the ones who know how to hunt,kill and prepare meat will all of a sudden have lots of best mates. Like the OP,I've got a longbow and I can make arrows, so the jobs a good Un. I can also make a nice bender which can withstand gale force winds....so yep OP I'd give it a good go. Now we're talking. That's an impressive skill set and very useful, much more so than banging on about moral intelligence. If you ever find yourself at my freshly acquired small holding there's a place for you if you want it. Stoke the fire,I'll bring something for the table." Just let me grab my axe and i'll get some more wood in. | |||
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"I'd welcome it. I'm bored out of my mind! Trapped in a dead end job and cant be arsed to get a new one - up to my eyeballs in debt and glued to my phone / laptop most of the time. I have everything yet nothing. Bring on the apocalypse I say
You’ll be lucky, if you glued to your phone, at least you’ll get a heads up when the apocalypse hits. I’m sure the news will break through Facebook first.
This "Haha The irony is I'm not on Facebook and I don't have a TV. Not that it means anything - apart from instead of staring at meaningless shit on TV - I stare at meaningless shit online
Bring on the apocalypse so I don't have to work at my shit job and there's no such thing as money anymore | |||
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"So the ones who know how to hunt,kill and prepare meat will all of a sudden have lots of best mates. Like the OP,I've got a longbow and I can make arrows, so the jobs a good Un. I can also make a nice bender which can withstand gale force winds....so yep OP I'd give it a good go. Now we're talking. That's an impressive skill set and very useful, much more so than banging on about moral intelligence. If you ever find yourself at my freshly acquired small holding there's a place for you if you want it. Stoke the fire,I'll bring something for the table. Just let me grab my axe and i'll get some more wood in. "You do that. Meanwhile, I know someone who can cobble together an Archimedes' screw based water turbine..... I can farm and the point of collectivisation becomes really apparent when you begin to look at livestock/cropping. | |||
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"So the ones who know how to hunt,kill and prepare meat will all of a sudden have lots of best mates. Like the OP,I've got a longbow and I can make arrows, so the jobs a good Un. I can also make a nice bender which can withstand gale force winds....so yep OP I'd give it a good go. Now we're talking. That's an impressive skill set and very useful, much more so than banging on about moral intelligence. If you ever find yourself at my freshly acquired small holding there's a place for you if you want it. Stoke the fire,I'll bring something for the table. Just let me grab my axe and i'll get some more wood in.
You do that.
Meanwhile, I know someone who can cobble together an Archimedes' screw based water turbine.....
I can farm and the point of collectivisation becomes really apparent when you begin to look at livestock/cropping. "Then welcome aboard. There's always room for people like you. | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me.
I'm wherever Ray Means is going."He's only good with a film crew
where as I'm skilled in the Anglo Saxon way of life, | |||
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"No, you're completely wrong. I would have my family with me, one who is trained in the use of weapons, one who can use herbs to heal, i myself own several longbows, understand bushcraft and know which wild plants are good to eat and can trap, skin and prepare meat. I'll be sitting in my small holding all nice and snug watching you slowly freeze/starve to death. You won't be running rings around me, you'll be begging me for help. See the trouble is that you're not very intelligent (in this hypothetical situation). You'd be a sitting duck trying to fend off every other myopic thug who's hungry or horny enough to slit your throat in the middle of the night and aquire your food and your beautiful wife. Far better to keep to the shadows, keep on the move, and keep the women disguised until you reach a critical mass that can legitimately defend a vantage point. Even then things like farms may not be the best target. The heads of streams and other important points like vital junctions may be better to control. There's a reason why intelligence is more attractive than thuggery
Again, assuming you haven't already frozen or starved to death. It requires intelligence to survive and that i have in bucketloads. What will you eat? That tasty berry could well kill you and the dead badgers on the roadside will have already gone.
Of course what is won by the sword can be lost by it but i have sufficient wit and skill and my own army behind me.
I'm wherever Ray Means is going.
He's only good with a film crew
where as I'm skilled in the Anglo Saxon way of life, "You're a re-enactor! That will no doubt be useful as this is most likely the era we'd be thrown back to. | |||
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