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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........"  | |||
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"I am a lesbian inside a man's body. There. I've said it." I think you will be ok funky , it’s us men in a mans body and women in a woman’s body that are weird ....  | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all" It wasn’t just one person who said it , and would you prefer a thread which didn’t cause any contention , because if so there are plenty to choose from elsewhere on the forum  | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all" This.. Op perhaps look at what was actually said and the context in which it was said.. Not doing so then starting a thread with such inaccuracies could possibly be seen as a bit wierd maybe.. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. " I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so | |||
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"Im a man and happy with the body and mind i was born with, if that offends someone then they can go fuck themselves as they offend me by being offended. Such a stupid world we live in now. Frank" ^ Haha spot on | |||
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"Im a man and happy with the body and mind i was born with, if that offends someone then they can go fuck themselves as they offend me by being offended. Such a stupid world we live in now. Frank" This is the sort of stupid misinformation that gets people's backs up. NO ONE is offended by people that are comfortable in the skin they're born in, they just want tolerance from those that are for those that arent | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" Well you’ve educated me today. I’m a cis person who wasn’t aware I had a label | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so" I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so" | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so" I can understand the trans community being prickly & it’s a shame that even somewhere like Fab you can’t just relax & be who you want to be. For me, I’m a ‘live & let live’ person, but I don’t understand the minefield that is the ‘did you just assume my gender’ crowd - why do we need a different pronoun; why can’t cats & dogs just be male & female; why can’t we refer to kids as the sex they were born to, unless or until they decide different? I have friends with little girls who play with tool sets & trucks, boys that wear dress up dresses & love frozen - let kids just be kids without worrying, and let the adults that want to be something else be something else. Let gay people get married & have kids and stop judging straight people who don’t!! If it’s not hurting you or others, it’s fine! I take people as I find them & treat them as they treat me. If someone’s going to have a pop at me because I called them ‘she’ instead of ‘he’ or ‘they’ or ‘xe’ without me being aware of their preference, then they can sod off - not because they’re different, but because they’re being daft!! | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. " Traditionally women stayed at home and done all the cooking... We can't base modern society on what has been traditionally done or we would never progress as a race | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I can understand the trans community being prickly & it’s a shame that even somewhere like Fab you can’t just relax & be who you want to be. For me, I’m a ‘live & let live’ person, but I don’t understand the minefield that is the ‘did you just assume my gender’ crowd - why do we need a different pronoun; why can’t cats & dogs just be male & female; why can’t we refer to kids as the sex they were born to, unless or until they decide different? I have friends with little girls who play with tool sets & trucks, boys that wear dress up dresses & love frozen - let kids just be kids without worrying, and let the adults that want to be something else be something else. Let gay people get married & have kids and stop judging straight people who don’t!! If it’s not hurting you or others, it’s fine! I take people as I find them & treat them as they treat me. If someone’s going to have a pop at me because I called them ‘she’ instead of ‘he’ or ‘they’ or ‘xe’ without me being aware of their preference, then they can sod off - not because they’re different, but because they’re being daft!!" This is how most people should be, just accept people for who they are and what they want to do. If it doesn't affect your life, why does it matter. I think it's a very small minority that would be in the offended by the wrong pronoun crowd unless someone was doing it intentionally. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Well you’ve educated me today. I’m a cis person who wasn’t aware I had a label "Me too | |||
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"Im a man and happy with the body and mind i was born with, if that offends someone then they can go fuck themselves as they offend me by being offended. Such a stupid world we live in now. Frank This is the sort of stupid misinformation that gets people's backs up. NO ONE is offended by people that are comfortable in the skin they're born in, they just want tolerance from those that are for those that arent" I think people will be more open minded if the people who are trying to get their message across dont start instantly pigeon holing people and sticking labels on people who dont take their views. Its not just trans people but other shall we say left wingers who are guilty of this and i think the media have a big part to play. If someone puts on their profile they only want to meet certain type of person then they are racist because they are excluding others, but if someone says only tall people for example then nothing is said even though they are excluding everyone else who isnt tall, same can be said if people only want to meet people of a certain build or hair colour again excluding a lot of people but nothing is said. Frank | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. Traditionally women stayed at home and done all the cooking... We can't base modern society on what has been traditionally done or we would never progress as a race" That's not answering my question. I am quite happy to consider a different definition of woman to the traditional one, I have just never seen a convincing one How would you define "woman"? | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. Traditionally women stayed at home and done all the cooking... We can't base modern society on what has been traditionally done or we would never progress as a race That's not answering my question. I am quite happy to consider a different definition of woman to the traditional one, I have just never seen a convincing one How would you define "woman"? " This brings up a valid question actually, now for me people can be whatever they choose to be the same way i can be whatever i choose to be. I don't ask anyone else to validate it as it's for me not the rest of the world. But for those who need the world to validate there choices, genders and beliefs etc i would ask this. I as a straight male would not be sexually interested in a pre or post op trans who identifys as a woman. I happily accept the gender they choose and will address them as such but does the fact i don't find them sexually attractive make me a bigot now? Genuine question not trolling. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. Traditionally women stayed at home and done all the cooking... We can't base modern society on what has been traditionally done or we would never progress as a race That's not answering my question. I am quite happy to consider a different definition of woman to the traditional one, I have just never seen a convincing one How would you define "woman"? This brings up a valid question actually, now for me people can be whatever they choose to be the same way i can be whatever i choose to be. I don't ask anyone else to validate it as it's for me not the rest of the world. But for those who need the world to validate there choices, genders and beliefs etc i would ask this. I as a straight male would not be sexually interested in a pre or post op trans who identifys as a woman. I happily accept the gender they choose and will address them as such but does the fact i don't find them sexually attractive make me a bigot now? Genuine question not trolling. " No it doesn't make you a bigot at all. This is your chosen preference that's all. I'm bi but I don't get offended by people who state " won't meet bi guys " . | |||
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"I am a lesbian inside a man's body. There. I've said it." Me too  | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. I think it's because a lot of trans people on this site are very defensive as almost every thread that involves them quickly has bigots flying out the woodwork to say things like 'youre born with a penis, you're not a woman'. So those that are genuinely inquisitive and have just misworded questions get tarred with the same brush. Trans people have to deal with a lot of offensive people on the daily and even on these forums people say some pretty horrific things and other people don't say a word about it but if you have to say something of the equivalent to a person of colour then an army would step out to defend them. People just need to accept others for the way they are and feel, but alas a lot of people just refuse to be more tolerant. At least the younger generation is a lot more open minded and accepting so we should see a bigger change in the coming decade or so I flatter myself that I am not a bigot, but I genuinely find many of the arguments put forward on behalf of trans people unconvincing. Traditionally and in all societies, a woman was defined as an adult human being with a vagina, uterus etc. As I understand it trans people disagree with that definition, but I have never heard any alternative convincing definition. Note that "a woman is someone who feels like a woman" is circular and just begs the question. Traditionally women stayed at home and done all the cooking... We can't base modern society on what has been traditionally done or we would never progress as a race That's not answering my question. I am quite happy to consider a different definition of woman to the traditional one, I have just never seen a convincing one How would you define "woman"? This brings up a valid question actually, now for me people can be whatever they choose to be the same way i can be whatever i choose to be. I don't ask anyone else to validate it as it's for me not the rest of the world. But for those who need the world to validate there choices, genders and beliefs etc i would ask this. I as a straight male would not be sexually interested in a pre or post op trans who identifys as a woman. I happily accept the gender they choose and will address them as such but does the fact i don't find them sexually attractive make me a bigot now? Genuine question not trolling. No it doesn't make you a bigot at all. This is your chosen preference that's all. I'm bi but I don't get offended by people who state " won't meet bi guys " . " A lot do though and I've seen it described as bigoted before to be fair..not by yourself but a lot do..and then of course there is the people who think every guy is bi really even if they say they're not. It's a bloody minefield asking a question lol. But i was always told you don't ask you don't know | |||
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"I really do feel boring at time's being straight and happy(ish) in the body that I have. I didn't even know what cis people or whatever it is was. I lose track with everything nowadays." I'm of the age when it when it stood for the co-op insurance services | |||
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"I really do feel boring at time's being straight and happy(ish) in the body that I have. I didn't even know what cis people or whatever it is was. I lose track with everything nowadays. I'm of the age when it when it stood for the co-op insurance services " | |||
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"I really do feel boring at time's being straight and happy(ish) in the body that I have. I didn't even know what cis people or whatever it is was. I lose track with everything nowadays. I'm of the age when it when it stood for the co-op insurance services "Do they do insurance for pre-op & post-op too? | |||
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"1. I can understand Pan not being liked for it's term in orientation, but unless gf people are transitioning to another gender they are still biologically and sexually one gender." Gender is separate to sex and biology. "2. The 'bi' argument. People who are bi, do not identify themselves as two different genders but are attracted to two genders. They still identify as a single gender and biological sex." *sigh* you've misunderstood my point. My point is that pan and bi are words for SEXUALITY, so have no place describing gender identity, as those two are separate things. "3. Transmen and transwomen would or will be transitioned by the time they use different bathrooms. They would have taken hormones or undergone surgery. There is no argument here for them not to use bathrooms of their genders' transition. " Not all trans people undergo any kind of biological transition? But yeah, my point is the same - that there's no reason for any of them not to use the bathroom according to their gender?? "4. To argue gender fluid people are trans is apart (and a distraction) from the trans debate, as no surgery or hormones are being taken. They simply don't identify or reject the gender code. The reality is, gender fluid people are opting for no gender. Trans people do. This does not make gf people disabled - it means it is a life choice until a gender is chosen." Again, not all trans people undergo "biological" transitioning. | |||
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"*rolls eyes* For goodness sake, cis people were not labelled as weird apropos of nothing, and they were not called weird just for being cis??? As mentioned in another reply above, the context is that "cis people are always really bothered by the toilet issue, that's really weird." Which is perfectly reasonable stance to have. And those people who never knew they were cis? Gee, isn't it GREAT to go through life without having a label slapped on to you?? If only everyone can experience such privilege. " Everyone has all sorts of labels slapped on them all the time , and I thought the issue here was the desire to be accorded a particular label. In this case someone with a penis wanting to be accorded the label of "woman" | |||
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"Everyone has all sorts of labels slapped on them all the time , and I thought the issue here was the desire to be accorded a particular label. In this case someone with a penis wanting to be accorded the label of "woman" " It's not the label they want. It's the freedom to live life as their gender. Only people who do the labelling think it's all about labels. | |||
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"So they would have no problem with being called a man? " Would being called a man allow them the freedom to live their life as a woman? | |||
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"So they would have no problem with being called a man? Would being called a man allow them the freedom to live their life as a woman? " I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct. | |||
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"I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct." This is why cis people are weird. | |||
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"We're all of us wierd in our own way. Define normal. " | |||
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"I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct. This is why cis people are weird. " Could you explain to me why that is weird. Do you consider that if someone engages in stereotypical female behaviour that makes them a woman? | |||
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"I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct. This is why cis people are weird. " Don’t you mean this particular CIS person? Or all Cis people? | |||
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"I really do feel boring at time's being straight and happy(ish) in the body that I have. I didn't even know what cis people or whatever it is was. I lose track with everything nowadays. I'm of the age when it when it stood for the co-op insurance services
Do they do insurance for pre-op & post-op too?"I would have thought so...but I don't know if the co-op insurance went bust with the bank...I'll let you use Google to see | |||
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"Could you explain to me why that is weird. Do you consider that if someone engages in stereotypical female behaviour that makes them a woman? " Yes, I can! ^_^ No, I don't consider that if someone engages in stereotypical female behaviour that makes them a woman. Because THEIR gender is not MINE to decide. I consider that if they tell me they are female, then I respect them enough to get over myself and call them whatever they like. I'm not so big headed that I feel I get to decide what gender everyone is just by looking at them. Lol. | |||
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"Like, how hard is it to refer to someone as female and using she/her pronouns? Why is it so important that you get to decide what their gender is?? Lol" I am not trying to decide anything. For words to mean anything, they have to have a commonly accepted definition. If everyone has their own private definition of what words mean then communication is impossible. "woman" is an objective term with a hitherto commonly accepted definition. For the word to mean anything there has to be such a definition. How do you define the word? | |||
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"Don’t you mean this particular CIS person? Or all Cis people? "I mean ONLY cis people do this. Come on friend, we don't need a #notallcis argument on this thread. | |||
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"I really do feel boring at time's being straight and happy(ish) in the body that I have. I didn't even know what cis people or whatever it is was. I lose track with everything nowadays. I'm of the age when it when it stood for the co-op insurance services
"Just seen what you done on another thread....you broke the chain so you fix it  | |||
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"Don’t you mean this particular CIS person? Or all Cis people?
I mean ONLY cis people do this.
Come on friend, we don't need a #notallcis argument on this thread. "Well by default because of the circumstances only CIS people would any way. I was only messing. | |||
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"Could you explain to me why that is weird. Do you consider that if someone engages in stereotypical female behaviour that makes them a woman? Yes, I can! ^_^ No, I don't consider that if someone engages in stereotypical female behaviour that makes them a woman. Because THEIR gender is not MINE to decide. I consider that if they tell me they are female, then I respect them enough to get over myself and call them whatever they like. I'm not so big headed that I feel I get to decide what gender everyone is just by looking at them. Lol. " So you accept everything someone accepts they tell you about themselves? . If I told you I was Elvis would it be big headed to tell me I was taking bollocks? | |||
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"I am not trying to decide anything. For words to mean anything, they have to have a commonly accepted definition. If everyone has their own private definition of what words mean then communication is impossible. "woman" is an objective term with a hitherto commonly accepted definition. For the word to mean anything there has to be such a definition. How do you define the word? " Exactly! And currently you seem to be under the impression that the "commonly accepted definition" of "woman" is based on how a person presents to the outside world, and I disagree with this. I thing gender is no one else's business, and so the definition lies with the person it's describing. | |||
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"So you accept everything someone accepts they tell you about themselves? . If I told you I was Elvis would it be big headed to tell me I was taking bollocks? " Ha ha ha! Nice strawman argument there, my friend!! Luckily, we're not talking about identifying as a known celebrity in place of a gender. We are literally just using these two words, that everyone is already familiar with. | |||
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"So you accept everything someone accepts they tell you about themselves? . If I told you I was Elvis would it be big headed to tell me I was taking bollocks? Ha ha ha! Nice strawman argument there, my friend!! Luckily, we're not talking about identifying as a known celebrity in place of a gender. We are literally just using these two words, that everyone is already familiar with. "But it's not a straw man argument. Your stated argument was that he is someone says they are x, we shouldn't consider the objective definition of what x is, but just accept what we are told. If you are saying that argument only applies to gender and nothing else could you explain why that is the case. | |||
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"I am not trying to decide anything. For words to mean anything, they have to have a commonly accepted definition. If everyone has their own private definition of what words mean then communication is impossible. "woman" is an objective term with a hitherto commonly accepted definition. For the word to mean anything there has to be such a definition. How do you define the word? Exactly! And currently you seem to be under the impression that the "commonly accepted definition" of "woman" is based on how a person presents to the outside world, and I disagree with this. I thing gender is no one else's business, and so the definition lies with the person it's describing. " No, I don't. I think a woman is an adult human being with certain physical characteristics like a vagina, uterus etc. How they present to the world has no bearing on that definition. I am willing to consider an alternative definition if you would like to propose one | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" No: it's not you, and it's beginning to grate actually. | |||
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"But it's not a straw man argument. Your stated argument was that he is someone says they are x, we shouldn't consider the objective definition of what x is, but just accept what we are told. If you are saying that argument only applies to gender and nothing else could you explain why that is the case. " Oh but it is, my darling! We are having a discussion about gender, and people who are assigned as male or female at birth wanting to identify as one of the other known genders. Elvis is not one of those. You are taking my statement that "I respect people's genders to be what they identify as" to mean "anyone can describe themselves as anything and I have to respect that". That is taking an argument to a ridiculous and illogical extreme to make it easier to attack. That is literally the definition of a strawman logical fallacy. | |||
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"No, I don't. I think a woman is an adult human being with certain physical characteristics like a vagina, uterus etc. How they present to the world has no bearing on that definition. I am willing to consider an alternative definition if you would like to propose one " Gender has nothing to do with what genitals you have. That is sex. Gender and sexuality are two separate things. Gender is how you feel you identify in relation to, well, gender. Sex is to do with your chromosomes etc. | |||
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"But it's not a straw man argument. Your stated argument was that he is someone says they are x, we shouldn't consider the objective definition of what x is, but just accept what we are told. If you are saying that argument only applies to gender and nothing else could you explain why that is the case. Oh but it is, my darling! We are having a discussion about gender, and people who are assigned as male or female at birth wanting to identify as one of the other known genders. Elvis is not one of those. You are taking my statement that "I respect people's genders to be what they identify as" to mean "anyone can describe themselves as anything and I have to respect that". That is taking an argument to a ridiculous and illogical extreme to make it easier to attack. That is literally the definition of a strawman logical fallacy. " So why should I respect someone saying they are a gender that contradicts the objective definition of that gender when I don't have to respect them saying they are something else that contradicts an objective definition? | |||
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"No, I don't. I think a woman is an adult human being with certain physical characteristics like a vagina, uterus etc. How they present to the world has no bearing on that definition. I am willing to consider an alternative definition if you would like to propose one Gender has nothing to do with what genitals you have. That is sex. Gender and sexuality are two separate things. Gender is how you feel you identify in relation to, well, gender. Sex is to do with your chromosomes etc. " Sorry, typo: gender and SEX are two separate things (not sexuality) | |||
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"No, I don't. I think a woman is an adult human being with certain physical characteristics like a vagina, uterus etc. How they present to the world has no bearing on that definition. I am willing to consider an alternative definition if you would like to propose one Gender has nothing to do with what genitals you have. That is sex. Gender and sexuality are two separate things. Gender is how you feel you identify in relation to, well, gender. Sex is to do with your chromosomes etc. " Ok, so if saying you are a "woman" has nothing to do with any objective physical characteristics, what does the word "woman" mean? | |||
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" 4. To argue gender fluid people are trans is apart (and a distraction) from the trans debate, as no surgery or hormones are being taken. They simply don't identify or reject the gender code. The reality is, gender fluid people are opting for no gender. Trans people do. This does not make gf people disabled - it means it is a life choice until a gender is chosen. Again, not all trans people undergo "biological" transitioning. " At least you are happy they are not disabled. | |||
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"But it's not a straw man argument. Your stated argument was that he is someone says they are x, we shouldn't consider the objective definition of what x is, but just accept what we are told. If you are saying that argument only applies to gender and nothing else could you explain why that is the case. Oh but it is, my darling! We are having a discussion about gender, and people who are assigned as male or female at birth wanting to identify as one of the other known genders. Elvis is not one of those. You are taking my statement that "I respect people's genders to be what they identify as" to mean "anyone can describe themselves as anything and I have to respect that". That is taking an argument to a ridiculous and illogical extreme to make it easier to attack. That is literally the definition of a strawman logical fallacy. So why should I respect someone saying they are a gender that contradicts the objective definition of that gender when I don't have to respect them saying they are something else that contradicts an objective definition? " *sigh* First of all, there is no "objective definition" of gender. Please do not think the one you've been brought up with is "objective". Lol. Secondly, this is what your question sounds like: "OK but why do I have to respect someone when they tell me their name is Dave when I don't have to respect them when they say their name is Potato3000??" | |||
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"Ok, so if saying you are a "woman" has nothing to do with any objective physical characteristics, what does the word "woman" mean? " OK, so this is something you can google, but basically gender is what you feel. You have genitals, but everyone has an innate feeling of what gender they are. Cis people think it's just all normal that the gender they feel is what the doctors called them when they looked at their genitals, and trans people do not. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........"  sake... | |||
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"At least you are happy they are not disabled. " I have literally never said or implied gf people are disabled. | |||
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"At least you are happy they are not disabled. I have literally never said or implied gf people are disabled. "Use of disable toilets would imply that though. It's one hurdle resolved. | |||
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"At least you are happy they are not disabled. I have literally never said or implied gf people are disabled.
Use of disable toilets would imply that though. It's one hurdle resolved. "Have literally never advocated for this??? I just think people would just use whatever gender toilets match their gender? Sorry, do you have me confused with someone else? Lol | |||
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"Many men who cross genders label themselves as "women", many women who cross genders label themselves as "men". As a proud cis gender person, I like to label myself as "normal"." Way to demonise anyone not cis as "abormal". Good job, buddy. Lol. | |||
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"But it's not a straw man argument. Your stated argument was that he is someone says they are x, we shouldn't consider the objective definition of what x is, but just accept what we are told. If you are saying that argument only applies to gender and nothing else could you explain why that is the case. Oh but it is, my darling! We are having a discussion about gender, and people who are assigned as male or female at birth wanting to identify as one of the other known genders. Elvis is not one of those. You are taking my statement that "I respect people's genders to be what they identify as" to mean "anyone can describe themselves as anything and I have to respect that". That is taking an argument to a ridiculous and illogical extreme to make it easier to attack. That is literally the definition of a strawman logical fallacy. So why should I respect someone saying they are a gender that contradicts the objective definition of that gender when I don't have to respect them saying they are something else that contradicts an objective definition? *sigh* First of all, there is no "objective definition" of gender. Please do not think the one you've been brought up with is "objective". Lol. Secondly, this is what your question sounds like: "OK but why do I have to respect someone when they tell me their name is Dave when I don't have to respect them when they say their name is Potato3000??" " You're misunderstanding. "woman" as a matter of language is an objective term. . It's like terms such as "tree" "table" "cake" or whatever. It's a term we attach to entities outside ourselves. We judge whether any entity falls within those terms by considering whether it fits into the definition of the term. As I said, there has hitherto been a commonly accepted definition of the term "woman" . Definitions can and do change. But the fact is for woman to mean anything there has to be some definition. . Saying a "woman is defined as someone who says they are a woman" is literally meaning less unless we have a definition of what a "woman" is. As you don't agree with my definition of woman perhaps you could tell me yours. | |||
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"Ok, so if saying you are a "woman" has nothing to do with any objective physical characteristics, what does the word "woman" mean? OK, so this is something you can google, but basically gender is what you feel. You have genitals, but everyone has an innate feeling of what gender they are. Cis people think it's just all normal that the gender they feel is what the doctors called them when they looked at their genitals, and trans people do not. " I don't have an innate feeling of gender. I consider myself male because I have a penis and testicles. That's just a fact I observe. Just observe I am bald on top without having any innate feeling of baldness. | |||
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"At least you are happy they are not disabled. I have literally never said or implied gf people are disabled.
Use of disable toilets would imply that though. It's one hurdle resolved.
Have literally never advocated for this??? I just think people would just use whatever gender toilets match their gender? Sorry, do you have me confused with someone else? Lol "No I haven't, but you replied on the previous thread where someone did advocate it and brought in the trans and bi argument to mitigate their use. | |||
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""woman" as a matter of language is an objective term. . It's like terms such as "tree" "table" "cake" or whatever. It's a term we attach to entities outside ourselves." No. It's not. It may used to be, and I get that it's a hard concept to swallow that it's not any more, but that was before we learned about other genders. Language changes all the time, and gender is something that is now self defined. "We judge whether any entity falls within those terms by considering whether it fits into the definition of the term." Yeh we should stop doing that? And defining other people? "As you don't agree with my definition of woman perhaps you could tell me yours. " I literally gave my definition of gender, above. | |||
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"I don't have an innate feeling of gender. I consider myself male because I have a penis and testicles. That's just a fact I observe. Just observe I am bald on top without having any innate feeling of baldness. " Yeah, the fact that you don't experience body dysphoria (the feeling of being the wrong gender, or as you put it "I don't have an innate sense of gender") IS LITERALLY the definition of being cis gendered. Not everyone feels like this. Why is this so hard to grasp? Lol | |||
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"No I haven't, but you replied on the previous thread where someone did advocate it and brought in the trans and bi argument to mitigate their use. " Oh, yeh, I don't know what comment you're specifically referring to, but I was pointing out their use of "pan" as a gender identity being inappropriate, because it's a term for a sexuality. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all" Don't get me started on tiolets | |||
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""woman" as a matter of language is an objective term. . It's like terms such as "tree" "table" "cake" or whatever. It's a term we attach to entities outside ourselves. No. It's not. It may used to be, and I get that it's a hard concept to swallow that it's not any more, but that was before we learned about other genders. Language changes all the time, and gender is something that is now self defined. We judge whether any entity falls within those terms by considering whether it fits into the definition of the term. Yeh we should stop doing that? And defining other people? As you don't agree with my definition of woman perhaps you could tell me yours. I literally gave my definition of gender, above. " If I say. "I am a lawyer" that means I have a job practicing law. If I say "I am black" that means I have dark skin. If I say "I am married" that means I have been joined to another person in a legally recognised ceremony All of those statements about my personal identity refer to something outside myself that is objectively defined. So if I say "I am a woman" what does that mean? And please don't deflect by going on about the differences between sex and gender, of which I am quite well aware. | |||
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"I don't have an innate feeling of gender. I consider myself male because I have a penis and testicles. That's just a fact I observe. Just observe I am bald on top without having any innate feeling of baldness. Yeah, the fact that you don't experience body dysphoria (the feeling of being the wrong gender, or as you put it "I don't have an innate sense of gender") IS LITERALLY the definition of being cis gendered. Not everyone feels like this. Why is this so hard to grasp? Lol" So let me get this clear, I am not allowed to dispute someones gender identity whilst its perfectly fine for you to tell me I do have a gender identity when I say I don't. Why don't you respect my personal feeling that I don't have a gender identity? | |||
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"If I say. "I am a lawyer" that means I have a job practicing law. If I say "I am black" that means I have dark skin. If I say "I am married" that means I have been joined to another person in a legally recognised ceremony All of those statements about my personal identity refer to something outside myself that is objectively defined. So if I say "I am a woman" what does that mean? And please don't deflect by going on about the differences between sex and gender, of which I am quite well aware. " *sigh* EXACTLY!! All those things rely on external features. If you say you're a woman, it means you feel your gender is a woman. I literally don't know how many more times I can repeat myself, Jesus. Lol. | |||
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"So let me get this clear, I am not allowed to dispute someones gender identity whilst its perfectly fine for you to tell me I do have a gender identity when I say I don't. Why don't you respect my personal feeling that I don't have a gender identity? " When have you ever said you don't have a gender identity? Lol. You've literally been calling yourself male this whole time? Are you without gender identity? Are you agender? If so, cool? I literally don't care? Lol. | |||
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"Many men who cross genders label themselves as "women", many women who cross genders label themselves as "men". As a proud cis gender person, I like to label myself as "normal". Way to demonise anyone not cis as "abormal". Good job, buddy. Lol. "As a cisgender person, I have the legal right to label myself however I want. I didn't demonise anyone not cis gender as "abnormal" on my post, you made that assumption on your reply, so that's your problem, not mine. You are quite clearly cisgenderphobic. | |||
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"If I say. "I am a lawyer" that means I have a job practicing law. If I say "I am black" that means I have dark skin. If I say "I am married" that means I have been joined to another person in a legally recognised ceremony All of those statements about my personal identity refer to something outside myself that is objectively defined. So if I say "I am a woman" what does that mean? And please don't deflect by going on about the differences between sex and gender, of which I am quite well aware. *sigh* EXACTLY!! All those things rely on external features. If you say you're a woman, it means you feel your gender is a woman. I literally don't know how many more times I can repeat myself, Jesus. Lol. " And how many times do I have to ask that if someone feels that their gender is a woman what do they mean by the word "woman". They are saying they feel like something but what is that something? . You can't say you feel like x without being able to define x You have rejected both a biological and a social definition of what a woman is so I am at a loss to know how you define the word. | |||
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"So let me get this clear, I am not allowed to dispute someones gender identity whilst its perfectly fine for you to tell me I do have a gender identity when I say I don't. Why don't you respect my personal feeling that I don't have a gender identity? When have you ever said you don't have a gender identity? Lol. You've literally been calling yourself male this whole time? Are you without gender identity? Are you agender? If so, cool? I literally don't care? Lol. " No, I reject the concept of gender identity entirely. I don't believe there is a such a thing. I believe there is biological sex and social gender conventions. That's all. Don't you see how you are trying to define me on your terms? | |||
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"As a cisgender person, I have the legal right to label myself however I want. I didn't demonise anyone not cis gender as "abnormal" on my post, you made that assumption on your reply, so that's your problem, not mine. You are quite clearly cisgenderphobic. " LMFAO nice try little troll. D+ for effort. | |||
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"If I say. "I am a lawyer" that means I have a job practicing law. If I say "I am black" that means I have dark skin. If I say "I am married" that means I have been joined to another person in a legally recognised ceremony All of those statements about my personal identity refer to something outside myself that is objectively defined. So if I say "I am a woman" what does that mean? And please don't deflect by going on about the differences between sex and gender, of which I am quite well aware. *sigh* EXACTLY!! All those things rely on external features. If you say you're a woman, it means you feel your gender is a woman. I literally don't know how many more times I can repeat myself, Jesus. Lol. " I am not sure what feeling like a woman means. Ms | |||
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"As a cisgender person, I have the legal right to label myself however I want. I didn't demonise anyone not cis gender as "abnormal" on my post, you made that assumption on your reply, so that's your problem, not mine. You are quite clearly cisgenderphobic. LMFAO nice try little troll. D+ for effort. "Whoa there... you are supposed to be an advocate of some sort, yet at the first sight of anyone who claims to be cis/gf you start with the beat downs??? | |||
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"Im a man and happy with the body and mind i was born with, if that offends someone then they can go fuck themselves as they offend me by being offended. Such a stupid world we live in now. Frank" That's 1 hell of a set of top bollex on ya Frank | |||
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"And how many times do I have to ask that if someone feels that their gender is a woman what do they mean by the word "woman". They are saying they feel like something but what is that something? . You can't say you feel like x without being able to define x You have rejected both a biological and a social definition of what a woman is so I am at a loss to know how you define the word. " Oh my god, how do I know how someone "feels" when they identify as a woman?? You'd need to ask them?? Correct, you can't identify as x without being able to define x, but that is something you'd have to ask someone who isn't cis. I am cis, so I feel I'm a woman, which matches what my biological sex was assigned to be, at birth. Why not read up on the millions of resources out there that describe trans experiences, or even better, engage in some respectful discourse with someone who is trans? "No, I reject the concept of gender identity entirely. I don't believe there is a such a thing. I believe there is biological sex and social gender conventions. That's all. Don't you see how you are trying to define me on your terms? " Cool. It's nice that you can do that, because you are cis. But trans and nb people fight every day to be recognised and respected just to live their lives the way they want and be called the pronoun that they feel, JUST LIKE YOU. Literally all they (and I) want is equality? And freedom from other people deciding what gender they are? | |||
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"As a cisgender person, I have the legal right to label myself however I want. I didn't demonise anyone not cis gender as "abnormal" on my post, you made that assumption on your reply, so that's your problem, not mine. You are quite clearly cisgenderphobic. LMFAO nice try little troll. D+ for effort.
Whoa there... you are supposed to be an advocate of some sort, yet at the first sight of anyone who claims to be cis/gf you start with the beat downs??? "Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha! I literally have no idea what you're on about. Poster calls self "cis, therefore normal", which implies non-cis are abnormal (let's take some responsibility for our own words and actions, people lol). I point this out, and get accused of cissexism. Which isn't a thing. Lol. I'm not oppressing anyone because they're cis rather than trans. Lol.
Where's the beatdown? Lol | |||
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" at the first sight of anyone who claims to be cis/gf you start with the beat downs??? " Sorry, who's gender fluid here? Lol | |||
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"And how many times do I have to ask that if someone feels that their gender is a woman what do they mean by the word "woman". They are saying they feel like something but what is that something? . You can't say you feel like x without being able to define x You have rejected both a biological and a social definition of what a woman is so I am at a loss to know how you define the word. Oh my god, how do I know how someone "feels" when they identify as a woman?? You'd need to ask them?? Correct, you can't identify as x without being able to define x, but that is something you'd have to ask someone who isn't cis. I am cis, so I feel I'm a woman, which matches what my biological sex was assigned to be, at birth. Why not read up on the millions of resources out there that describe trans experiences, or even better, engage in some respectful discourse with someone who is trans? No, I reject the concept of gender identity entirely. I don't believe there is a such a thing. I believe there is biological sex and social gender conventions. That's all. Don't you see how you are trying to define me on your terms? Cool. It's nice that you can do that, because you are cis. But trans and nb people fight every day to be recognised and respected just to live their lives the way they want and be called the pronoun that they feel, JUST LIKE YOU. Literally all they (and I) want is equality? And freedom from other people deciding what gender they are? " So you can define me by a label I reject (cis), yet I can't question peoples assertions about their identity. Good to get that known. I have no issues by the way with people behaving in any way they like and calling themselves whatever they like. That's a matter for them and I am not going to gratuitously insult them. What I will not do, though, is pretend to accept a theory that I believe is logically incoherent. So if I am involved in a discussion on the issue I will state my views. Just as you state your views on gender identity which fundamentally contradict my personal sense of what sex and gender are. | |||
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"So you can define me by a label I reject (cis), yet I can't question peoples assertions about their identity. Good to get that known. " But cis is just an objective label meaning you identify as the gender that matches the one assigned to you at birth? I thought you loved objective labels? "I have no issues by the way with people behaving in any way they like and calling themselves whatever they like. That's a matter for them and I am not going to gratuitously insult them. What I will not do, though, is pretend to accept a theory that I believe is logically incoherent. So if I am involved in a discussion on the issue I will state my views. Just as you state your views on gender identity which fundamentally contradict my personal sense of what sex and gender are. " Cool. I mean, at the end of the day you can think what you want. Trans people just want to live their lives with the same amount of freedom and respect cis people do. I don't really care what you believe, as long as it's not invalidating the existence of anyone. | |||
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"I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct. This is why cis people are weird. " Is it , well I still don’t get it .... | |||
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"I have no problem with people living however they want to live. If someone with a penis wants to wear a dress, talk about their feelings,dislike football, take up knitting or whatever else they consider to be female attributes that's fine by me. I would still not consider labelling them as a woman to be correct. This is why cis people are weird. Is it , well I still don’t get it ...." It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. | |||
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"So you can define me by a label I reject (cis), yet I can't question peoples assertions about their identity. Good to get that known. But cis is just an objective label meaning you identify as the gender that matches the one assigned to you at birth? I thought you loved objective labels? I have no issues by the way with people behaving in any way they like and calling themselves whatever they like. That's a matter for them and I am not going to gratuitously insult them. What I will not do, though, is pretend to accept a theory that I believe is logically incoherent. So if I am involved in a discussion on the issue I will state my views. Just as you state your views on gender identity which fundamentally contradict my personal sense of what sex and gender are. Cool. I mean, at the end of the day you can think what you want. Trans people just want to live their lives with the same amount of freedom and respect cis people do. I don't really care what you believe, as long as it's not invalidating the existence of anyone. "I don't see disagreeing with someones ideology or world view as invalidating anyone. I was being ironic about the cis thing. As you say it's an objective word with a certain meaning. But I don't "identify" as a cis person as I don't accept the concept of gender identity. Thus you calling me "cis" is equivalent to me calling someone with a penis who identifies as a woman, a man. You are rejecting my self identification and imposing your own on me. In terms of your own ideology that's contradictory is it not? | |||
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"As a cisgender person, I have the legal right to label myself however I want. I didn't demonise anyone not cis gender as "abnormal" on my post, you made that assumption on your reply, so that's your problem, not mine. You are quite clearly cisgenderphobic. LMFAO nice try little troll. D+ for effort.
Whoa there... you are supposed to be an advocate of some sort, yet at the first sight of anyone who claims to be cis/gf you start with the beat downs??? " That's what I was going for. This person is just a poser. | |||
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"I don't see disagreeing with someones ideology or world view as invalidating anyone." You may think that. But the people being invalidated by that may disagree. Lol. ("Stop complaining, I didn't *mean* to sexually harass you when I yelled "nice tits", so calm down" )
"But I don't "identify" as a cis person as I don't accept the concept of gender identity. Thus you calling me "cis" is equivalent to me calling someone with a penis who identifies as a woman, a man." No, cis and trans describe the state of your gender, not your gender identity. "Trans" and "cis" are like "married name" or "maiden name". They're different *types* of gender expression, so you don't identify *as* them. Whereas "man" or "woman" is like the "Dave" or "Shirley". They're the actual genders. | |||
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" That's what I was going for. This person is just a poser."Lol, you come on to this thread to throw about meaningless accusations like "cisgenderphobic", and I'M the poser?
Alright, love. Lol | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. " This!!^ lol | |||
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"I don't see disagreeing with someones ideology or world view as invalidating anyone. You may think that. But the people being invalidated by that may disagree. Lol. ("Stop complaining, I didn't *mean* to sexually harass you when I yelled "nice tits", so calm down" )
But I don't "identify" as a cis person as I don't accept the concept of gender identity. Thus you calling me "cis" is equivalent to me calling someone with a penis who identifies as a woman, a man.
No, cis and trans describe the state of your gender, not your gender identity.
"Trans" and "cis" are like "married name" or "maiden name". They're different *types* of gender expression, so you don't identify *as* them.
Whereas "man" or "woman" is like the "Dave" or "Shirley". They're the actual genders.
"I don't agree. I consider "cis" to be an expression of gender identity. Who are you to tell me I am wrong about that? After all it's my identity we are talking about. Do you see the problems you get when everything about a persons identity becomes completely subjective and cant be questioned? | |||
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"Do you see the problems you get when everything about a persons identity becomes completely subjective and cant be questioned? " No one has ever said "everything about a persons identity becomes completely subjective and cant be questioned". Please stop exaggerating. | |||
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"Do you see the problems you get when everything about a persons identity becomes completely subjective and cant be questioned? No one has ever said "everything about a persons identity becomes completely subjective and cant be questioned". Please stop exaggerating. " But gender identity is completely subjective? | |||
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"You obviously are not actually interested in having a conversation, or learning about any of this, only in nitpicking things in an effort to prove me wrong in a bizarre game of oneupmanship, so I'm out. Enjoy your evening! I do hope you actually read up on this, because you *seem* to have some genuine interest in this, and I'm just hoping my faith in that isn't misplaced. Take care. "It's called debate. We have each dealt with and contradicted each other's points. You as much as me. I am actually interested in discussing this. I have read a great deal about it and have never seen any coherent argument in favour of the arguments you are putting forward. Sadly, you were unable to enlighten me either  | |||
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"So let me get this clear, I am not allowed to dispute someones gender identity whilst its perfectly fine for you to tell me I do have a gender identity when I say I don't. Why don't you respect my personal feeling that I don't have a gender identity? This When have you ever said you don't have a gender identity? Lol. You've literally been calling yourself male this whole time? Are you without gender identity? Are you agender? If so, cool? I literally don't care? Lol. No, I reject the concept of gender identity entirely. I don't believe there is a such a thing. I believe there is biological sex and social gender conventions. That's all. Don't you see how you are trying to define me on your terms? " | |||
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" That's what I was going for. This person is just a poser.
Lol, you come on to this thread to throw about meaningless accusations like "cisgenderphobic", and I'M the poser?
Alright, love. Lol"Well, you've called me "buddy" and "love" now. I think everyone can easily identify what you are. | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. This!!^ lol" The problem here is not about knowing someone else’s gender better than they do . It’s more about suggesting that a guy who is happy to be a guy and was born into what he feels is the right body is weird . It isn’t weird ( to me ) for a bloke to be a bloke and a woman to be a woman . What is a bit weird ( again to me ) is when someone doesn’t know their own gender from one minute to the next . If that makes me weird then so be it .... | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. This!!^ lol The problem here is not about knowing someone else’s gender better than they do . It’s more about suggesting that a guy who is happy to be a guy and was born into what he feels is the right body is weird . " Literally no one has said that being cis is in itself weird. What has been said is that the attitudes of some cis people towards trans people are weird. These are two very different things. | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. This!!^ lol The problem here is not about knowing someone else’s gender better than they do . It’s more about suggesting that a guy who is happy to be a guy and was born into what he feels is the right body is weird . Literally no one has said that being cis is in itself weird. What has been said is that the attitudes of some cis people towards trans people are weird. These are two very different things." Ah but you must realise that gender fluid and trans are totally different surely ? | |||
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"I really hope some of you never have children who come to you and state they are trans/gender fluid Judging by some of the comments on this thread you'd make their lives a living hell " Probably just get on with it and not make a big song and dance about it. Have gay members of my family....hasn't came up in conversation once x | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. This!!^ lol The problem here is not about knowing someone else’s gender better than they do . It’s more about suggesting that a guy who is happy to be a guy and was born into what he feels is the right body is weird . Literally no one has said that being cis is in itself weird. What has been said is that the attitudes of some cis people towards trans people are weird. These are two very different things. Ah but you must realise that gender fluid and trans are totally different surely ? " Yes, and? I'm correcting your assumption (and the assumption of the whole thread) that people have been saying that being cis is in itself weird. | |||
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"I really hope some of you never have children who come to you and state they are trans/gender fluid Judging by some of the comments on this thread you'd make their lives a living hell " Nah, by then there'll be a new fashionable "cause" for the trendies to get fakely indignant about. | |||
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"I really hope some of you never have children who come to you and state they are trans/gender fluid Judging by some of the comments on this thread you'd make their lives a living hell " Trans I could happily cope with . Gender fluid would be a bit more difficult . I wouldn’t know if my grandchild was a grandson or a granddaughter , or both . Yeah I’d be the embarrassing grandad who doesn’t get it . Living in the past , and not up to date with things like gf people . But at least my kids and grandchildren would know I was their Dad , and their Grandad , and not their Mum or their Grandma , so it’s not all bad | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ No, its not just you. It sometimes confuses me, when we have people, on the one hand, asking for acceptance of LGBGT/pan/gender fluid issues, who on the other hand attack those of us who make up the "norm" in society. Just like each of those who identify as being somewhere else on the gender/sexual spectrum to what they were assigned at birth, we too have feelings, and have some confusion about what all this is about. I treat people as individuals, and only judge them on how they respond to me, especially in a situation where I'm having to adapt to something outside of my previous experience. it would be rather contradictory to expect me to treat them with a measure of dignity and empathy, without them doing the same for me. " | |||
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"I really hope some of you never have children who come to you and state they are trans/gender fluid Judging by some of the comments on this thread you'd make their lives a living hell Trans I could happily cope with . Gender fluid would be a bit more difficult . I wouldn’t know if my grandchild was a grandson or a granddaughter , or both . Yeah I’d be the embarrassing grandad who doesn’t get it . Living in the past , and not up to date with things like gf people . But at least my kids and grandchildren would know I was their Dad , and their Grandad , and not their Mum or their Grandma , so it’s not all bad "In one of the Simpsons episodes, Homer's dad says "I used to be with it, then it changed and now what is it, just frightens and confuses me" I feel a bit like that, when I was young we were exasperated by all the oldies who didn't get Gay rights and the politics of race. Now all the youngsters are exasperated with people like me who don't get Trans issues. In twenty years time, it will be something new that today's youngsters don't get. I won't care either way as I will be senile | |||
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"It's weird to take the opinion that you know another person's gender better than they do. This!!^ lol The problem here is not about knowing someone else’s gender better than they do . It’s more about suggesting that a guy who is happy to be a guy and was born into what he feels is the right body is weird . It isn’t weird ( to me ) for a bloke to be a bloke and a woman to be a woman . What is a bit weird ( again to me ) is when someone doesn’t know their own gender from one minute to the next . If that makes me weird then so be it .... " . Kids today hey, they'll grow out of it. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all" Well if it doesn’t really matter at all, surely a cos persons opinion on the toilet matter is just as relevant as a gender fluid persons opinion on the matter. On that basis, we are all persons entitled to feelings and opinions on all matters with none being superior. We are all just people with thoughts, feelings and opinions at the end of the day and I don’t feel anyone is weird for having them | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" Yes, I too saw these stupid posts but couldn't be arsed to educate them. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all" Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi" des, it's been years,Not so nouveau anymore. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi" It actually derives from Latin. The Romans referred to transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul. Trans being the other side of the alps from them, cis being their side of the alps. Hence cis as the opposite of trans. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi It actually derives from Latin. The Romans referred to transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul. Trans being the other side of the alps from them, cis being their side of the alps. Hence cis as the opposite of trans. " Oh so a trans person is not transitioning they're from the other side of the alps. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi It actually derives from Latin. The Romans referred to transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul. Trans being the other side of the alps from them, cis being their side of the alps. Hence cis as the opposite of trans. Oh so a trans person is not transitioning they're from the other side of the alps. " What's the matter horn ? | |||
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"I am a lesbian inside a man's body. There. I've said it." Did he eat you... do we need to send hep ?? | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi It actually derives from Latin. The Romans referred to transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul. Trans being the other side of the alps from them, cis being their side of the alps. Hence cis as the opposite of trans. " So,next time someone asks "What have the Romans ever given us" there's one more thing to add to the list. The aqueduct,straight roads,wine,peace etc etc etc | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........ Why start a thread fully well knowing that you're going to cause an arguement here. She wasn't labelling all cos people as weird, just the people that go crazy over things like what toilet a trans person uses as if it really matters at all Well,let's be right,the prefix 'Cis' is a bit weird. Was it coined by a trans person or by a Cis person? I imagine it was originally an acronym meaning something like 'comfortable inside' or 'comfortable in self.something like that. If that is right then a trans person could also be a cis person,that's what I meant when I said it's a bit weird,possibly even meaningless. There was a time when I tried to coin the term 'nouveau cis' but it never caught on and besi It actually derives from Latin. The Romans referred to transalpine gaul and cisalpine gaul. Trans being the other side of the alps from them, cis being their side of the alps. Hence cis as the opposite of trans. Oh so a trans person is not transitioning they're from the other side of the alps. " I still like my explanation (even though it's completely wrong). | |||
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"It was me (male) who started the "gender fluid" thread - and it certainly generated much debate. I`ve now decided, however, not to post on the forums anymore (my wife may choose to do so) as it quickly became apparent that certain (women) jumped on the "he's a BNP/Britain First/Daily Mail type" which could not be further from the truth. I should not be surprised I suppose as I know the far left is every bit as obnoxious and discriminatory as the odious far right. A couple of T girls we know very well have PM'd me to say they support the debate raised on said thread and cannot understand some of the comments made by supposed "ladies" on that thread and that some people on here clearly will not tolerate open and honest debate. Sad and very misguided individuals - and too many of them on the forums. Apparently, if your opinion doesn't agree with theirs then you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc. Goodbye forumites "noli nothis permittere te terere. | |||
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"So a thread from yesterday which was about gender fluid people had a few people saying that cis people were weird . Well I’m getting on a bit here , so I had to look up what a cis person is first . It turns out a cis person is a person who is happy with the sex they were born as . They are happy in the body and with the mind that they were given . So now in this wonderfully liberating world we live in , a normal , happy person is weird ? Wtf ..... It won’t be long before we offer counselling for the weird cis folk then . Those poor misunderstood people who are born a man or a woman , and are perfectly happy with that . What a world we live in , or is it just me ........" There's a lot of weirdness going around that is for sure. The thing that pisses me off is that certain class of person who keep talking about Transgenders every waking minute. I'm reminded of Animal Conservationists. Literally not a single one of their opinions matches my experience of talking to actual Transgenders. It's not even different, it's often the exact opposite. I was on my 4th Transgender Tory before I started to freak out a bit. I have no idea where the television transgenders come from but it's a different planet. | |||
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"Fuck me is this still going on" I can’t keep up with all the acronyms and big fancy words - I’ve spent all day on google
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"It was me (male) who started the "gender fluid" thread - and it certainly generated much debate. I`ve now decided, however, not to post on the forums anymore (my wife may choose to do so) as it quickly became apparent that certain (women) jumped on the "he's a BNP/Britain First/Daily Mail type" which could not be further from the truth. I should not be surprised I suppose as I know the far left is every bit as obnoxious and discriminatory as the odious far right. A couple of T girls we know very well have PM'd me to say they support the debate raised on said thread and cannot understand some of the comments made by supposed "ladies" on that thread and that some people on here clearly will not tolerate open and honest debate. Sad and very misguided individuals - and too many of them on the forums. Apparently, if your opinion doesn't agree with theirs then you are bigoted, racist, sexist etc. Goodbye forumites "What a shame that you feel like this . Leaving the rest of us to put up with the sad and misguided individuals .. In all seriousness , I don’t blame you at all . I take breaks every few weeks as I can’t be doing with the crap that some people spout on here . Especially the pc brigade , and so often the women who love to shout from the rooftops in defence of anything currently trending like the gf issue . | |||
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"Well the Romans were Ro-Man" Now to be referred to as "Ropersons". My buddies Carol Vorderperson and Tim Henperson have confirmed this. At the weekend, I'm off to see my favourite band, Personfred Person's Earth Band. | |||
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"Fuck me is this still going on I can’t keep up with all the acronyms and big fancy words - I’ve spent all day on google
"Ahhh but have you worked out what you are because I'm totally lost. I thought I was normal but now who knows | |||
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"Fuck me is this still going on I can’t keep up with all the acronyms and big fancy words - I’ve spent all day on google
Ahhh but have you worked out what you are because I'm totally lost. I thought I was normal but now who knows ". Stop saying normal, you'll freak out the errr not so normal | |||
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"Fuck me is this still going on I can’t keep up with all the acronyms and big fancy words - I’ve spent all day on google
Ahhh but have you worked out what you are because I'm totally lost. I thought I was normal but now who knows .
Stop saying normal, you'll freak out the errr not so normal "Oh fuck | |||
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"Firstly, it is both logical and pretty obvious that if you have a "trans" anything, there must also be a "cis". It's just scientific terminology, and like a lot of things science, it seems to upset the stupid. For a non Biology example see: Enantiomers. Secondly, I could explain the role of hormones within bodies and illustrate just how people underestimate how powerful they are, but people never seem to absorb it and instead just rant on about "basic biology". " 1. In theory yes, in practice no. The term transsexual for example was around long before cis was referred to gender. 1998 was when the latter was started apparently. Also we have a trans siberian railway, trans pennine express and so on without a cis equivalent. 2. If your argument is that it is a certain hormonal balance that defines men and women, I can accept that as it an objective definition . My objection is to a purely subjective definition as, as I have said, I think such a definition is internally contradictory. | |||
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"Firstly, it is both logical and pretty obvious that if you have a "trans" anything, there must also be a "cis". It's just scientific terminology, and like a lot of things science, it seems to upset the stupid. For a non Biology example see: Enantiomers. Secondly, I could explain the role of hormones within bodies and illustrate just how people underestimate how powerful they are, but people never seem to absorb it and instead just rant on about "basic biology". 1. In theory yes, in practice no. The term transsexual for example was around long before cis was referred to gender. 1998 was when the latter was started apparently. Also we have a trans siberian railway, trans pennine express and so on without a cis equivalent. 2. If your argument is that it is a certain hormonal balance that defines men and women, I can accept that as it an objective definition . My objection is to a purely subjective definition as, as I have said, I think such a definition is internally contradictory. " Railways are not scientific phenomena. trans = changed or across. Railways are the latter; see also: transverse. Just because "cis" wasn't in common usage, doesn't mean it isn't the logical opposite of "trans". A scientist would understand instantly what a "cis" person was. | |||
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"Firstly, it is both logical and pretty obvious that if you have a "trans" anything, there must also be a "cis". It's just scientific terminology, and like a lot of things science, it seems to upset the stupid. For a non Biology example see: Enantiomers. Secondly, I could explain the role of hormones within bodies and illustrate just how people underestimate how powerful they are, but people never seem to absorb it and instead just rant on about "basic biology". 1. In theory yes, in practice no. The term transsexual for example was around long before cis was referred to gender. 1998 was when the latter was started apparently. Also we have a trans siberian railway, trans pennine express and so on without a cis equivalent. 2. If your argument is that it is a certain hormonal balance that defines men and women, I can accept that as it an objective definition . My objection is to a purely subjective definition as, as I have said, I think such a definition is internally contradictory. Railways are not scientific phenomena. trans = changed or across. Railways are the latter; see also: transverse. Just because "cis" wasn't in common usage, doesn't mean it isn't the logical opposite of "trans". A scientist would understand instantly what a "cis" person was. " Well I wish I was a scientist then . It would have saved me the trouble of having to look up what a cis person was . | |||
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"This thread is only relevant for those who made such comments in the other thread - which was in any event, a lot of laughable presuppositions about the difficulties encountered in an organisation where one person preferred to be referred to as either of two genders. It wasn't going to be rocket science to work out a solution, nor surprising to anyone, once they were briefed. It was all conjecture, there wasn't any evidence of any major impact upon anyone or the organisation. It's a bit like this with cis gender - the cis prefix has been around in language for a very long time, as people who studied chemistry will likely remember. A bit of a long response but in any event, the strange comments by people on the other thread about cis gendered people is surely just an anomaly and only they would be able to explain their motivations." I like the TGs/TVs I've met in person Sophie, but to be perfectly honest I think talking about these groups is a waste of my attention (which is why I generally don't comment on this). Literally the only reason why we talk about these things is because the television told us to. That's it. It's so so stupid. You're consenting adults. Done. You're also a tiny fraction of the population. So with with all due respect - this whole subject and everything in it isn't important. The biggest reason why anybody who isn't a TV/TG talks about the subject is to create a political foil. It's a stupid, tired, tawdry game and I'm sick to the teeth of this propaganda. It's gotten to the point where if actual circumstances of real persecution of minorities occur I'll just ignore them, not because I wouldn't care, but because I'm going to think the stories are fundamentally not real. | |||
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" Literally the only reason why we talk about these things is because the television told us to. That's it. It's so so stupid. " Completely wrong. The reason many of us talk about these things is because we know people who have suffered as a result of the prejudice and ignorance of others. | |||
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" Literally the only reason why we talk about these things is because the television told us to. That's it. It's so so stupid. Completely wrong. The reason many of us talk about these things is because we know people who have suffered as a result of the prejudice and ignorance of others. " What he said, we talk about it because suprisingly these are issues that real life people with real feelings face. Have you ever had messages from people telling you your disgusting, need professional help or to kill yourself, just because your trying to be who you are. I've received multiple messages along these lines and I'm not even trans, so imagine what these people have to deal with their entire lives. The more issues are talked about the more normal they become to people | |||
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"If I say. "I am a lawyer" that means I have a job practicing law. If I say "I am black" that means I have dark skin. If I say "I am married" that means I have been joined to another person in a legally recognised ceremony All of those statements about my personal identity refer to something outside myself that is objectively defined. So if I say "I am a woman" what does that mean? And please don't deflect by going on about the differences between sex and gender, of which I am quite well aware. *sigh* EXACTLY!! All those things rely on external features. If you say you're a woman, it means you feel your gender is a woman. I literally don't know how many more times I can repeat myself, Jesus. Lol. I am not sure what feeling like a woman means. Ms" "Man, I feel like a woman!"... Cue Shania | |||
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" Literally the only reason why we talk about these things is because the television told us to. That's it. It's so so stupid. Completely wrong. The reason many of us talk about these things is because we know people who have suffered as a result of the prejudice and ignorance of others. What he said, we talk about it because suprisingly these are issues that real life people with real feelings face. Have you ever had messages from people telling you your disgusting, need professional help or to kill yourself, just because your trying to be who you are. I've received multiple messages along these lines and I'm not even trans, so imagine what these people have to deal with their entire lives. The more issues are talked about the more normal they become to people " | |||
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"This thread is only relevant for those who made such comments in the other thread - which was in any event, a lot of laughable presuppositions about the difficulties encountered in an organisation where one person preferred to be referred to as either of two genders. It wasn't going to be rocket science to work out a solution, nor surprising to anyone, once they were briefed. It was all conjecture, there wasn't any evidence of any major impact upon anyone or the organisation. It's a bit like this with cis gender - the cis prefix has been around in language for a very long time, as people who studied chemistry will likely remember. A bit of a long response but in any event, the strange comments by people on the other thread about cis gendered people is surely just an anomaly and only they would be able to explain their motivations." I am the originator of the comment on the other thread, which has launched this thread. Are we all happy now with what the cis prefix means? Cis is to trans as what hetero is to homo. No judgement, just a simple method of referring to a group of people. Well in the other thread there were dozens of postings all from cis gendered people who were absolutely obsessed with the contents of trans people's knickers, and what toilets they should use. I pointed out that trans people just use a toilet for a piss or shit exactly like everybody else, they take great care to get as much privacy as they possibly can while doing this, there are precisely zero reports of trans people using public toilets to spy on or assault cis gendered people (but unfortuately lots of instances of cis gendered people spying on and attacking trans people, particularly in the USA), and no trans person has ever asked for trans specific toilets. Literally all we want is to be allowed to take a piss without getting stabbed. Trans people do not obsess about the genitals of cis people. Trans people do not obsess about the gender or sexuality of the person in the cubicle next to them. The specific phrase everyone has objected to was "cis people are weird" - because, blimey, anyone who can run entire media campaigns devoted to pontificating on genitals and toilets ARE WEIRD!! This world is going to hell and major newspapers run by cis people devote front pages to the issue of where I can piss? Bloody totally weird. Thank you and goodnight, Polly xx. Ps. Can we please put this garbage to bed now? If you want to sensibly discuss with me about my possibly ill judged original words, then privately message me. My filters are down. If you want to rant in public about political correctness, then you only make yourself look stupid and intolerant. If you want a genuine public discourse about gender theory, then we should start a new more intelligent thread, perhaps a gender and transgender 101? (mods, any chance you could close this thread here?) | |||
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"Just a generalisation, in the world today, there seem to be a lot of people preaching about tolerance, who are very intolerant to people that don't agree with them... "Always the way. | |||
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"Just a generalisation, in the world today, there seem to be a lot of people preaching about tolerance, who are very intolerant to people that don't agree with them...
Always the way. "Sexuality, religion and vegans etc. | |||
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