FabSwingers.com forum: Equality

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Thoughts on this true scenario please. Person works for an employer and has stated they are "gender fluid". Each day, a supervisor sits down with said person, to ascertain if they feel male or female that day. Staff are then instructed to treat said person accordingly, including calling him/her Patrick or Patricia, depending on person's gender fluidity each day.They are allowed to use male/female toilets depending on which sex they choose each day.

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

For me - utterly bonkers - what happens, for example, if said person decides he feels male at 9am but, as a result of his hormones, then suddenly feels female at 11.17am - is everyone then guilty of discrimination thereafter if they mistakenly treat/address "her" as "him"?

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well same as you that seems hard to believe, and if I was Patrick/Patricia I wouldn't want that level of intrusiveness in my life every day and the other employees must feel like they are walking on eggshells wondering how to treat them.

Admittedly I know little about gender-fluid but I think the scenario has disaster written all over it.

Ginger

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

They should use a genderless name such as "bananas".

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By *inkyChrissy99TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If pat or patty changes her/his mind that often in a day...how many sets of clothes does he/she take to work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thoughts on this true scenario please. Person works for an employer and has stated they are "gender fluid". Each day, a supervisor sits down with said person, to ascertain if they feel male or female that day. Staff are then instructed to treat said person accordingly, including calling him/her Patrick or Patricia, depending on person's gender fluidity each day.They are allowed to use male/female toilets depending on which sex they choose each day.

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?"
would their appearance on the day determine their chosen gender for the day? And therefore illebriate the need for a sit down conversation.. I am all for equality etc.. but I'm a supervisor and don't have time to fart most days

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it. "

Appreciate your point of view - but don't agree with it. Can you see at all the impact this has on the people working with him/her - do their rights and feelings matter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well same as you that seems hard to believe, and if I was Patrick/Patricia I wouldn't want that level of intrusiveness in my life every day and the other employees must feel like they are walking on eggshells wondering how to treat them.

Admittedly I know little about gender-fluid but I think the scenario has disaster written all over it.

Ginger"

It's a very unusual situation and I'm not sure what the right way is of dealing with it but this doesn;t seem to be it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would've thought they'd use a male/female name possibly ask everyone to call them pat, so its neither male or female and then have a toilet, not male or female just a toilet....then they just have to accept if anyone calls them him or her (maybe by the way they're dressed that day!)

You shouldn't have to go into work every day and find out if you're talking to them as female or male that day

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

"Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it.

Appreciate your point of view - but don't agree with it. Can you see at all the impact this has on the people working with him/her - do their rights and feelings matter?

apparently not these days,cisgender people seemingly have to just suck it up or be seen as "phobics"

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?would their appearance on the day determine their chosen gender for the day? And therefore illebriate the need for a sit down conversation.. I am all for equality etc.. but I'm a supervisor and don't have time to fart most days "

Choice of clothing wouldn’t necessarily determine or show if they are feeling male or female?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I must admit, my (admitedly relatively limited) understanding of gender fluidity is that it more in line with being pangender, I didn't realise it involved choosing a specific identity on certain days, more that the lines were constantly blurred

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I would've thought they'd use a male/female name possibly ask everyone to call them pat, so its neither male or female and then have a toilet, not male or female just a toilet....then they just have to accept if anyone calls them him or her (maybe by the way they're dressed that day!)

You shouldn't have to go into work every day and find out if you're talking to them as female or male that day

According to the person who told me this "gender fluid" is the next big buzz word amongst the PC brigade; particularly in the public sector. I will watch with interest as thousands of "GFs" come out of the closet - and await with inevitability the discrimination cases in the years to come when they are inadvertently discriminated against.

I`m all for sexual acceptance but I just cannot swallow this - it has to stop now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it.

Appreciate your point of view - but don't agree with it. Can you see at all the impact this has on the people working with him/her - do their rights and feelings matter?

apparently not these days,cisgender people seemingly have to just suck it up or be seen as "phobics" "

Maybe joking about attavking people with cricket or baseball bats is what makes people seen as "phobics"?

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By *inkyChrissy99TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

"Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it.

Appreciate your point of view - but don't agree with it. Can you see at all the impact this has on the people working with him/her - do their rights and feelings matter?

I see your point but it wasn't so long ago people would say the same about lesbian and gay people.

If you took a step back you would see how brave that person isto just say 'fuck it this is who i am and how i wish to express myself'

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

"Gender fluid is recognised on the transgender spectrum and if it helps this person emotionally would it be fair to stop them? Its awkward cus its different..... You will get over it.

Appreciate your point of view - but don't agree with it. Can you see at all the impact this has on the people working with him/her - do their rights and feelings matter?

apparently not these days,cisgender people seemingly have to just suck it up or be seen as "phobics"

Maybe joking about attavking people with cricket or baseball bats is what makes people seen as "phobics"?"

who was joking?? if I want to bash myself with a baseball or cricket bat while nobody is looking then I shall

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?"

Has said person got a penis?

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By *inkyChrissy99TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

"I must admit, my (admitedly relatively limited) understanding of gender fluidity is that it more in line with being pangender, I didn't realise it involved choosing a specific identity on certain days, more that the lines were constantly blurred"

That would be gender nuetral, completly different to gender fluid.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

You shouldn't have to go into work every day and find out if you're talking to them as female or male that day

I`m all for sexual acceptance but I just cannot swallow this - it has to stop now."

Your being all for sexual acceptance doesn't tally with the rest of your posts on this thread.

The PC Brigade didn't get together and decide that gender fluidity would be the next thing to challenge you to accept. This is new territory for everyone, just some are trying to find a way of ensuring that people feel comfortable being who they are.

It's fairly easy to spot when those who are intolerant decide that they are going to deliberately use the pronoun for the gender at birth compared to those who just have a slip of the tongue.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Has said person got a penis?"

No - just a very large clitoris apparently

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By *crumdiddlyumptiousMan
over a year ago

If I worked there I would call them Pat and just treat them as a person rather then a Man or Woman, The toilet issue might be a bit confusing, Maybe using a spare toilet or the disabled toilet for the time being,

The situation wouldn't work in my working environment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This seems rather impractical. From my interactions with gender fluid people, when in situation like a work place they often chose to be referred to as the non gender assigned pronoun 'They' which is much simpler.

That this person imposes a situation where your workplace is having to assess constantly her/his gender definition seems a little bit of the top.

But then if your bosses are happy to accommodate that, it's OK.

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By *ornyDubMan25Man
over a year ago

Berlin

And nobody has thought of just calling said person "Pat" to fix that concern?

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

One thing....I wouldn’t want a person with a penis using the same loo as me at work!!!!!

This is beyond ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Your being all for sexual acceptance doesn't tally with the rest of your posts on this thread.

It's fairly easy to spot when those who are intolerant decide that they are going to deliberately use the pronoun for the gender at birth compared to those who just have a slip of the tongue."

You're clearly one of the PC brigade and I will forgive your ill informed comment. Have many transexual friends, have regularly played with trans people off Fab and often frequent trans nights in Manchester - next

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

It sounds like your employer doesn't understand gender fluidity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

apparently not these days,cisgender people seemingly have to just suck it up or be seen as "phobics" "

No we don't. Fortunately, we don't all inhabit a fantasy dystopia where that is the case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

probably, but no balls

I seriously doubt this is true, but no employer anywhere in the world could possibly justify paying someone to work when they act like that, nor should they have to.

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

apparently not these days,cisgender people seemingly have to just suck it up or be seen as "phobics"

No we don't. Fortunately, we don't all inhabit a fantasy dystopia where that is the case."

tell that to the nutjobs organising screaming at the sky events et al

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It sounds like your employer doesn't understand gender fluidity "

Then thats the next step,lets all educate our employers on this,my employer would love to hear this from me

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"One thing....I wouldn’t want a person with a penis using the same loo as me at work!!!!!

This is beyond ridiculous. "

But trans women can do that as soon as the begin transition. They may never go "full op".

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"One thing....I wouldn’t want a person with a penis using the same loo as me at work!!!!!

This is beyond ridiculous. "

Most of the workplaces I frequent have non-assigned toilets. People use whichever one is free. If you changed employer and found that to be the case would you stop working there?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Your being all for sexual acceptance doesn't tally with the rest of your posts on this thread.

It's fairly easy to spot when those who are intolerant decide that they are going to deliberately use the pronoun for the gender at birth compared to those who just have a slip of the tongue.

I am happy to be of the PC Brigade. How you behave sexually and with your friends just doesn't extend to offering them that tolerance in the workplace, by your own words. I merely commented on the words you chose to write.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I met a fellow lecturer at a faculty bash a few months back who was gender fluid in a similar way to the OP. He (he was a "he" when I met him) wore a little round badge with a slider on it to turn it from blue to pink.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One thing....I wouldn’t want a person with a penis using the same loo as me at work!!!!!

This is beyond ridiculous. "

Genuine question...why not?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Cis gendered. That fucks me off. Being defined for living as my sex. Fuck off.

I hate this trans shit. You're not fucking female."

You'd rather trans people live closeted unhappy lives?

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I think the employer is trying a little too hard on this one.

If someone wanted to be gender fluid at my place of work I would happily accommodate the best I could but not to the detriment of others.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I am happy to be of the PC Brigade. How you behave sexually and with your friends just doesn't extend to offering them that tolerance in the workplace, by your own words. I merely commented on the words you chose to write."

Yes thanks for that - you don't know me or my beliefs so stop acting as though you are some sort of bloody expert at analysing people's words. It's a bloody website and perhaps people type a little quickly. I will state again I fully appreciate trans and different sexuality - I just thin the scenario as in the Original Post is going too far.

I wonder what you would say to a paedophile who said "it's my right to have sex with children - it's the way I am" A bit extreme and off the wall, I know, but I have heard this said in certain left wing circles - just wondered what a self-confessed PC brigadier thought?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I met a fellow lecturer at a faculty bash a few months back who was gender fluid in a similar way to the OP. He (he was a "he" when I met him) wore a little round badge with a slider on it to turn it from blue to pink."

Well,at least that person had the decency to give other people a clue what pronouns to use that day, instead of expecting everyone to just know. (And getting all offended when someone else failed to guess correctly).

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?"

I'd say a lot of the time it is attention seeking on a par with a child throwing a temper tantrum to get his/her

HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER HIS/HERS HIMSELF/HERSELF

zie zim zir zis zieself

sie sie hir hirs hirself

ey em eir eirs eirself

ve ver vis vers verself

tey ter tem ters terself

e em eir eirs emself

the attention required

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Given what the OP said the scenario you describe has not been mentioned about expecting to know and getting offended..

the Op's description is similar to the lecturer's position but without the badge..

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Let them use the disabled toilet, job done.

As for the name, just refer to the as mate or pat. It works for both sexes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I wonder what you would say to a paedophile who said "it's my right to have sex with children - it's the way I am" A bit extreme and off the wall, I know, but I have heard this said in certain left wing circles - just wondered what a self-confessed PC brigadier thought?

Paedophilia is not consensual sex and therefore not ok. Any more disdain for me being PC?

You posted, I responded to your post."

I won't get into any further argument with you - just didn't like your judgemental approach. You should think carefully about being too PC and liberal. It's well within my lifetime that homosexual acts were criminal in many situations. I`ve read many a learned article where people are convinced paedophilia will be the next issue to be "legalised" because of pressure groups in certain circles. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? But so did the legalisation of homosexuality.

It's all food for thought i.e. what horrible places will the PC brigade take us to if they accept that everyone has rights (and a paedophile will argue sex with a child can be consensual - it's merely the current age of consent that stops it being).

Anyway - a truce.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paedophilia is not consensual sex and therefore not ok. Any more disdain for me being PC?

You posted, I responded to your post.

Anyway - a truce."

This sounds like something you’d read in The Daily Mail, trying to make out that the left are trying to be too PC!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm all for people living happier lives, there's very little evidence that this does that though.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Paedophilia is not consensual sex and therefore not ok. Any more disdain for me being PC?

You posted, I responded to your post.

Anyway - a truce."

I've lived through seeing friends being attacked for being gay and lesbian (I'm old) and now I see similar with trans friends. You have called me judgmental and then use PC in a wholly derogatory way. Read back what you wrote and see how it can be (and is) read as judgmental.

Thank you for the truce.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paedophilia is not consensual sex and therefore not ok. Any more disdain for me being PC?

You posted, I responded to your post.

Anyway - a truce.

This sounds like something you’d read in The Daily Mail, trying to make out that the left are trying to be too PC! "

Or Britain First propaganda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Big kiss everyone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Admittedly I know little about gender-fluid but I think the scenario has disaster written all over it.

Ginger"

It's hard enough dealing with other issues without worrying about calling the person by the wrong name. Seems like an eggshells situation.

However I think it does depend on the person. If s/he is an easy going type it could work really well. If s/he 'has a point to make' then it could be a very uncomfortable place to work, and that's not fair on the other people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Paedophilia is not consensual sex and therefore not ok. Any more disdain for me being PC?

You posted, I responded to your post.

Anyway - a truce.

This sounds like something you’d read in The Daily Mail, trying to make out that the left are trying to be too PC!

Or Britain First propaganda.

Oh, totally!

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

If the job they are employed to do isn’t affected by which sex they happen to be at the time , I guess it’s ok .

If , however , they , or those employed in the same workplace are affected by it , then it’s simply unacceptable to have to deal with such nonsense .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

What did she say about those born intersex? We weren't taught a lot of things in the 70s.

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

What did she say about those born intersex? We weren't taught a lot of things in the 70s.

To be fair , I didn’t have a clue what intersex was when I was at school . Without google I still don’t ....

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

So having just looked , at the ripe old age of 56 I now know what it is ..... and can confirm we weren’t taught anything about intersex people at school .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So having just looked , at the ripe old age of 56 I now know what it is ..... and can confirm we weren’t taught anything about intersex people at school . "

Its mentioned in the bible

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

What did she say about those born intersex? We weren't taught a lot of things in the 70s.

To be fair , I didn’t have a clue what intersex was when I was at school . Without google I still don’t ...."

We weren't taught a lot of things at school. The term in use back then would have been hermaphrodite, but it wasn't taught. There has always been more than penis = male and vulva = female.

The teens in my life have covered more than was available to me when I was at school in the 70s.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If the effect upon work is for other people to just accept the difference amongst others, including using 2 different names, it doesn't feel like a major burden.

Some people just have differences that others won't and education is enough to ensure everyone is respected appropriately.

Unless I am missing something, this sounds like no big deal for anyone - I've only read the opening post from the op, so potentially missed later info.

It's probably a new thing for some people - they'll live and be ok.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

I literally cannot understand why you can't just do this. Lol.

You mentioned up there "what about the rights of their coworkers?"

What rights of yours are being infringed upon, here? Lol. Your right to call people by.... one pronoun.... all the time....? That's not really a right. Lol.

Just chill, and call them by their pronoun, it's not that hard. Lol.

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"If the job they are employed to do isn’t affected by which sex they happen to be at the time , I guess it’s ok .

If , however , they , or those employed in the same workplace are affected by it , then it’s simply unacceptable to have to deal with such nonsense .

Most jobs are affected by gender if there are separate Male and Female toilets!

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

"I literally cannot understand why you can't just do this. Lol.

You mentioned up there "what about the rights of their coworkers?"

What rights of yours are being infringed upon, here? Lol. Your right to call people by.... one pronoun.... all the time....? That's not really a right. Lol.

Just chill, and call them by their pronoun, it's not that hard. Lol. "

HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER HIS/HERS HIMSELF/HERSELF

zie zim zir zis zieself

sie sie hir hirs hirself

ey em eir eirs eirself

ve ver vis vers verself

tey ter tem ters terself

e em eir eirs emself

not that hard???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I literally cannot understand why you can't just do this. Lol.

You mentioned up there "what about the rights of their coworkers?"

What rights of yours are being infringed upon, here? Lol. Your right to call people by.... one pronoun.... all the time....? That's not really a right. Lol.

Just chill, and call them by their pronoun, it's not that hard. Lol.

HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER HIS/HERS HIMSELF/HERSELF

zie zim zir zis zieself

sie sie hir hirs hirself

ey em eir eirs eirself

ve ver vis vers verself

tey ter tem ters terself

e em eir eirs emself

not that hard???"

I feel like I'm in French class all over again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I literally cannot understand why you can't just do this. Lol.

You mentioned up there "what about the rights of their coworkers?"

What rights of yours are being infringed upon, here? Lol. Your right to call people by.... one pronoun.... all the time....? That's not really a right. Lol.

Just chill, and call them by their pronoun, it's not that hard. Lol. "

I would say Oi you. Thingy. Whatsyourface. I'm crap with names anyway.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"One thing....I wouldn’t want a person with a penis using the same loo as me at work!!!!!

This is beyond ridiculous. "

That's a bit unusual increasingly, as gender neutral communal toilets are increasingly commonplace.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I literally cannot understand why you can't just do this. Lol.

You mentioned up there "what about the rights of their coworkers?"

What rights of yours are being infringed upon, here? Lol. Your right to call people by.... one pronoun.... all the time....? That's not really a right. Lol.

Just chill, and call them by their pronoun, it's not that hard. Lol.

HE/SHE HIM/HER HIS/HER HIS/HERS HIMSELF/HERSELF

zie zim zir zis zieself

sie sie hir hirs hirself

ey em eir eirs eirself

ve ver vis vers verself

tey ter tem ters terself

e em eir eirs emself

not that hard???"

Woah there buddy. Do you have over 8 different people all demanding to use every single of the above pronouns, in your life? If not, calm the eff down. Lol.

If one person has a different pronoun they request to be addressed by, which isn't even outside of the two pronouns you're used to, why can't you cope with that?

"Shit, I grew up with "mum" and "dad", and you tell me your name is Dave? Woah, sorry buddy, I'm gonna call you Dad."

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!"

"bi's and gays" have never been a gender. They're sexual orientations. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!

"bi's and gays" have never been a gender. They're sexual orientations. Lol. "

Yeah I know Lol!!!!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

Ah come on! That's gold right there!

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling. "

Sounds like your boss is a dick lol

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

Ah come on! That's gold right there!

Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!

"bi's and gays" have never been a gender. They're sexual orientations. Lol. "

Plus I don't think I said they were genders actually LOL!!

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!

"bi's and gays" have never been a gender. They're sexual orientations. Lol.

Plus I don't think I said they were genders actually LOL!!"

Well, you kind of did, by grouping them in with two other genders, and then talking about "new genders" in the next sentence. We don't need to explicitly state something in the English language when inference is a thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I preferred it when we just had males,females, bi's and gays! Seems a new gender is 'invented' each month!!

"bi's and gays" have never been a gender. They're sexual orientations. Lol.

Plus I don't think I said they were genders actually LOL!!

That's how you read it!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling. "

Mine neither! It would take ages 120 guys... " How are you feeling? ", "like i want to shit on your desk"...

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

You shouldn't have to go into work every day and find out if you're talking to them as female or male that day

I`m all for sexual acceptance but I just cannot swallow this - it has to stop now."

'It has to stop now'

. Until the human race is extinct, you will get this. People have every right to be themselves and in any event the only difficulty of varied names does not seem to need the intelligence of Stephen Hawking to create a very simple to understand solution that will ensure people adjust, so all are happy.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Imagine the poor children. "Mum?". "it's dad". " Ok, dad?". " It's mum now"...

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling.

Mine neither! It would take ages 120 guys... " How are you feeling? ", "like i want to shit on your desk"..."

One supervisor with 120 people reporting to them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling.

Mine neither! It would take ages 120 guys... " How are you feeling? ", "like i want to shit on your desk"..."

He'd get fuck all else done!!

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?"
Why not just do something sensible like have gender neutral toilets?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The World has gone fucking bonkers!!!

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"If the job they are employed to do isn’t affected by which sex they happen to be at the time , I guess it’s ok .

If , however , they , or those employed in the same workplace are affected by it , then it’s simply unacceptable to have to deal with such nonsense .

Most jobs are affected by gender if there are separate Male and Female toilets! "
Why not ask a simple question like 'why are there separate male and female toilets?'

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By *oyce69Man
over a year ago

Driffield

What a load of bollocks, or maybe vagina depending on how you feel that day.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Just a bit confused..

How many cis people are there in the UK ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?Why not just do something sensible like have gender neutral toilets?"

Just to please the few?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"My supervisor has never sat down with me to ask how I'm feeling.

Mine neither! It would take ages 120 guys... " How are you feeling? ", "like i want to shit on your desk"...

One supervisor with 120 people reporting to them?

2 shifts i guess. Although there is a 4 hour cross over.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

You shouldn't have to go into work every day and find out if you're talking to them as female or male that day

I`m all for sexual acceptance but I just cannot swallow this - it has to stop now."
In other words it's made up bollocks - some utter fuckmuppet has dreamed up a scenario and you've wandered along here and repeated it as if it is real life not some daft hypothesis.

Guess what? People are OK - they can figure this stuff out much easier if people don't treat it as an episode of the Jeremy Kyle show...

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Just a bit confused..

How many cis people are there in the UK ?"

I've never met one to be honest with you. Or certainly none that knew they were..

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Will you all stop obsessing about the toilet issue? I don't know about you, but at home i just have a toilet, male people use it, female people use it, trans people use it. No problem. If i have to use a public toilet I check whether i have boobs or not, pick male or female, enter a private cubicle and take a piss. Nobody sees my genitals, no problem.

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Just leave it out, this obsession is mental. There are zero, that is zero, cases of any genuine trans person using the "wrong" toilet for the purpose of spying on cis people. We literally just want to piss or shit in private. We are far more terrified of you mental cis people than you should be of us.

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?Why not just do something sensible like have gender neutral toilets?

Just to please the few?"
No, so we can all have some privacy. It really is that simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?"

As long as the boss keeps pussy footing around them and entertaining this it never will. I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home. I also couldn't care less which toilet they used x

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Will you all stop obsessing about the toilet issue? I don't know about you, but at home i just have a toilet, male people use it, female people use it, trans people use it. No problem. If i have to use a public toilet I check whether i have boobs or not, pick male or female, enter a private cubicle and take a piss. Nobody sees my genitals, no problem.

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx "
Love this - doff my cap to you - Carter

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx "

Yaaaaaaasssssss

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Name badges are the answer, some days I need to look at mine to get MY name right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a bit confused..

How many cis people are there in the UK ?"

Millions I guess!!

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home."

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When first told this I thought it was a joke - but it's true - and the employer positively beams about their gender equality as a result.

What a can of worms we have opened as more and more demand "their rights" - where will it all end?Why not just do something sensible like have gender neutral toilets?

Just to please the few?No, so we can all have some privacy. It really is that simple."

Are your work toilets not private then?

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

jaysus I bet you're great craic at parties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx "

You wouldn't want to go into my toilet after my son has shit in it.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

jaysus I bet you're great craic at parties"

I am. Life and soul with a huge smile on my face.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are male and female wrds as well.shit where is this going to end

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are male and female wrds as well.shit where is this going to end"

Words* ooooh the irony

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Are your work toilets not private then? "

Apparently not, since people seem to have loads of opinions on policing who should be using which toilet lol.

Why not just have toilets that everyone can use?

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There are male and female wrds as well.shit where is this going to end"

I guess those words really suffer oppression when people decide they can't use the bathroom they want to use. Lol.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx

You wouldn't want to go into my toilet after my son has shit in it. "

Good job that you apparently have two at home.

I have been into womens toilets that have shit on the floor, its not just men who can be disgusting in toilets.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

Haha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx

You wouldn't want to go into my toilet after my son has shit in it.

Good job that you apparently have two at home.

I have been into womens toilets that have shit on the floor, its not just men who can be disgusting in toilets."

I used to manage an events venue and at the end of the evening the ladies toilets were fucking disgusting compared to the gents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all? "

You have to notify a whole work when someone fancies changing their name on a whim. Eh no you get called your name that you've registered with the company. Now get back to work and do what your paid to x

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

Again, if it's all so much hassle, why doesn't everyone just use she/her pronouns?

And no one is changing their pronoun on a whim. Lol.

And it's literally one of two pronouns. It's not like it's *any name*. Surely you can handle a choice of two pronouns (which you're already familiar with)? Lol

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By *vilgasamWoman
over a year ago

The dot in the i

Ok, I can understand them changing their mind and if that’s how they feel that day then fair enough, if they want to be male or female that’s their choice each day and I don’t see a problem with that being shown in whatever way they choose as long as the work gets done, what I don’t understand is why the bosses need a meeting every day to figure out what to call them, wouldn’t their clothing choice, hairstyle and/or makeup show that? Why do they need a meeting? Wouldn’t just wearing whichever name tag work to show who they identify with that day? There are plenty of ways to communicate this to the rest of the co workers without making themselves into a special case and having an entire workforce tiptoe around them, if you are happy to identify what gender you are differently on any given day you must be open minded enough to realise that can be confusing to your work mates and mistakes will be made on occasion, as long as it’s not done on purpose I don’t see how it’s offensive if a work colleague makes a mistake, maybe I’m wrong here but isn’t one of the things their asking of their work mates open mindedness? I would assume therefore they are just as open minded

Or am I completely wrong here?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Ok, I can understand them changing their mind and if that’s how they feel that day then fair enough, if they want to be male or female that’s their choice each day and I don’t see a problem with that being shown in whatever way they choose as long as the work gets done, what I don’t understand is why the bosses need a meeting every day to figure out what to call them, wouldn’t their clothing choice, hairstyle and/or makeup show that? Why do they need a meeting? Wouldn’t just wearing whichever name tag work to show who they identify with that day? There are plenty of ways to communicate this to the rest of the co workers without making themselves into a special case and having an entire workforce tiptoe around them, if you are happy to identify what gender you are differently on any given day you must be open minded enough to realise that can be confusing to your work mates and mistakes will be made on occasion, as long as it’s not done on purpose I don’t see how it’s offensive if a work colleague makes a mistake, maybe I’m wrong here but isn’t one of the things their asking of their work mates open mindedness? I would assume therefore they are just as open minded

Or am I completely wrong here? "

It's one side of a secondhand story. I'm sure there is a kernel of truth there but the details are less convincing. The details do make a better story, though.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"what I don’t understand is why the bosses need a meeting every day to figure out what to call them, wouldn’t their clothing choice, hairstyle and/or makeup show that?"

So, I think this is something they've obviously worked out themselves, and it's hard for us to comment/ speculate on the "why"s etc of their own arrangement.

" having an entire workforce tiptoe around them"

I don't think they're asking for this. I think they just want to be called their pronoun. Lol.

"if you are happy to identify what gender you are differently on any given day you must be open minded enough to realise that can be confusing to your work mates and mistakes will be made on occasion, as long as it’s not done on purpose I don’t see how it’s offensive if a work colleague makes a mistake"

How do you know this isn't happening? I actually assume this is *exactly* what's already happening (this is the exact attitude any of my friends who don't use conventional pronouns have, so I don't see why a workplace situation would be different).

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By *abulously curiousCouple
over a year ago

manchester

"Has said person got a penis?

No - just a very large clitoris apparently

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

Again, if it's all so much hassle, why doesn't everyone just use she/her pronouns?

And no one is changing their pronoun on a whim. Lol.

And it's literally one of two pronouns. It's not like it's *any name*. Surely you can handle a choice of two pronouns (which you're already familiar with)? Lol"

I generally wouldn't entertain it and not call them he or she or by their name. It would be you or they and by department name x

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

Again, if it's all so much hassle, why doesn't everyone just use she/her pronouns?

And no one is changing their pronoun on a whim. Lol.

And it's literally one of two pronouns. It's not like it's *any name*. Surely you can handle a choice of two pronouns (which you're already familiar with)? Lol

I generally wouldn't entertain it and not call them he or she or by their name. It would be you or they and by department name x"

"They" is a perfectly acceptable cover-all pronoun to use, so that would be brilliant, actually.

I just don't know if calling someone "HR" would be identifying enough. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

I imagine she’s kept ‘current’?

When we first looked at our genes we noticed we were either xx or xy..... now we’ve spent a bit longer looking we now know we can also be xxy, xyy, xxxy, xyy etc.

It’s not as simple as we realised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

Again, if it's all so much hassle, why doesn't everyone just use she/her pronouns?

And no one is changing their pronoun on a whim. Lol.

And it's literally one of two pronouns. It's not like it's *any name*. Surely you can handle a choice of two pronouns (which you're already familiar with)? Lol

I generally wouldn't entertain it and not call them he or she or by their name. It would be you or they and by department name x

"They" is a perfectly acceptable cover-all pronoun to use, so that would be brilliant, actually.

I just don't know if calling someone "HR" would be identifying enough. Lol.

If "they" answer the phone "they" can call themselves what they like lol x

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

I know quite a few gender fluid people, and literally none of them are as ridiculous as the original posting. This is just another Daily Mail shite story. Real gender fluid people know that it's difficult for muggles to get their heads around, they will wear clothing that gives gender cues, or will wear a badge that shows their preferred pronouns, or will just tell the few people that they have to interact with during the day. They will often have a gender neutral name - in the example given it would be Pat. They quite understand when people get it wrong by accident, they get bloody furious when they get some fuckwit that deliberately does it knowingly wrong every time. If there really is an employer doing what is said in the original posting, then the employee must be feeling totally humiliated every day.

It's not trans and gender fluid people that are mental, it's cis people that are fucking insane!

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I know quite a few gender fluid people, and literally none of them are as ridiculous as the original posting. This is just another Daily Mail shite story. Real gender fluid people know that it's difficult for muggles to get their heads around, they will wear clothing that gives gender cues, or will wear a badge that shows their preferred pronouns, or will just tell the few people that they have to interact with during the day. They will often have a gender neutral name - in the example given it would be Pat. They quite understand when people get it wrong by accident, they get bloody furious when they get some fuckwit that deliberately does it knowingly wrong every time. If there really is an employer doing what is said in the original posting, then the employee must be feeling totally humiliated every day.

It's not trans and gender fluid people that are mental, it's cis people that are fucking insane!"

THIS^

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let them use the disabled toilet, job done.

As for the name, just refer to the as mate or pat. It works for both sexes."

Am I disabled ?

If I use the ladies loo I shut myself in a cubicle and no one knows if I have penis or not.

If I’m a female to male trans person using a urinal, it may be more obvious

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think most work places wouldn’t have time first thing in the morning to sit down everyday with him/her. I know I certainly wouldn’t, IF I was to encounter this kind of thing I would say ‘send me a text in the morning and let me know’ but if him/her lived their life in this way then the workforce wouldn’t need to be informed, they would get on with it as they would anyone else, shorten the name to pat and see what him/her is wearing that day (if they dress as either male or female).

I might just add it shouldn’t matter which sex this person identifies with as everyone should be treated the same, everyday, so it shouldn’t really be brought up on a daily basis.

That’s my ideal world anyway.

Geeky x

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"If "they" answer the phone "they" can call themselves what they like lol x"

Literally don't understand why "you" can't write the word "they" without putting it in quotes, but I guess "you" can do what "you" like lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"In other words it's made up bollocks - some utter fuckmuppet has dreamed up a scenario and you've wandered along here and repeated it as if it is real life not some daft hypothesis.

Guess what? People are OK - they can figure this stuff out much easier if people don't treat it as an episode of the Jeremy Kyle show..."

Thanks for that useful contribution - it's definitely not made up - it is happening within a large public sector organisation up north - and is quite well known about now - and has been the subject of debate.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Or am I completely wrong here?

You are completely wrong..managers have nothing else to do.. imo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If "they" answer the phone "they" can call themselves what they like lol x

Literally don't understand why "you" can't write the word "they" without putting it in quotes, but I guess "you" can do what "you" like lol"

Cos "you" done it first lol x

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"If "they" answer the phone "they" can call themselves what they like lol x

Literally don't understand why "you" can't write the word "they" without putting it in quotes, but I guess "you" can do what "you" like lol

Cos "you" done it first lol x"

Oh... wow....

Lol, OK, I used a quote to emphasise the word as a noun, not using it as a pronoun.

I thought that was clear, but I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer and spell it out for you. Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is there actually a link to a news article about this specific incident?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If "they" answer the phone "they" can call themselves what they like lol x

Literally don't understand why "you" can't write the word "they" without putting it in quotes, but I guess "you" can do what "you" like lol

Cos "you" done it first lol x

Oh... wow....

Lol, OK, I used a quote to emphasise the word as a noun, not using it as a pronoun.

I thought that was clear, but I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer and spell it out for you. Lol

Sorry doll I was just enjoying the banter. I don't know what the fuck this has turned into x

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Sorry doll I was just enjoying the banter. I don't know what the fuck this has turned into x"

And I was just being facetious. I just want everyone to be equal. Lol

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"Let them use the disabled toilet, job done.

As for the name, just refer to the as mate or pat. It works for both sexes."

Disabled toilets have a designation in workplaces for people with disabilities. Being gender fluid is not a recognised disability so having access to them would restrict the needs of those with impairments unfairly.

Until mixed bathrooms are a standard, those who are gender fluid should make a decision based on their sex as to which bathrooms they should use, as using disabled toilets should not be a 'pass go card' simply because the discrimination gets raised.

It is similar to body dis-morphia or transvestism - no hormones or reassignment have been undertook where gender identity could be directly discriminated against; more, as their identity changes, rights are protected from discrimination (as a person).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ladies, do you obsess about whether the woman in the next cubicle might be lesbian?

Gents, do you obsess about whether the bloke next to you at the urinal might be gay?

Rant over, thank you. Polly xx

You wouldn't want to go into my toilet after my son has shit in it.

Good job that you apparently have two at home.

I have been into womens toilets that have shit on the floor, its not just men who can be disgusting in toilets."

I have one toilet that I have the responsibility of cleaning. It's not the best job in the world after he's been in there. I hate public toilets even more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Call them whatever name they were hired as

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"Let them use the disabled toilet, job done.

As for the name, just refer to the as mate or pat. It works for both sexes.

Will you all stop being mental about toilets? Every single trans person I know does everything they can to avoid trouble, including many that will hold it all day until they can go somewhere safe.

It's easy: All the toilet cubicles I know have a door. Every trans person will close the door so that no one can see them, if they don't then they are guilty of gross indecency whether they are male, female or transgender. If the door is closed and somebody deliberately looks over or under the door or divider to check the gender of the person inside, then the person doing the looking is a pervert whether male, female or transgender. The law can deal with all of that stuff already.

As far as what the person inside the cubicle is doing, well shit stinks regardless of gender, farts make just the same sound. If you're going to object that a trans person might be smellier than you imagine a woman will be, then you had better have a questionnaire on the door asking if anyone has had a curry the night before.

Cis people are just bloody weird

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Call them whatever name they were hired as"

So no one is allowed to change their name after they get employed? People who change their names when they get married just have to continue using their pre-marital name?

You've changed your name by deed poll? Too bad if that's not what's on your application form, buddy!

And don't even try to shorten your name or have a nickname.

Choose the only name you will ever be called by at work at the moment you apply for that job!

If these are allowed, why not for other reasons?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Call them whatever name they were hired as

So no one is allowed to change their name after they get employed? People who change their names when they get married just have to continue using their pre-marital name?

You've changed your name by deed poll? Too bad if that's not what's on your application form, buddy!

And don't even try to shorten your name or have a nickname.

Choose the only name you will ever be called by at work at the moment you apply for that job!

If these are allowed, why not for other reasons? "

The opening post was about changing names and/or gender on a daily basis, not what you are describing. Of course marriage or legal name change would be different.

Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"The opening post was about changing names and/or gender on a daily basis, not what you are describing. Of course marriage or legal name change would be different.

Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?

I cannot imagine any situation where a gender fluid person gains above a gender stable person. Trans people get discriminated against horribly in even our supposedly forward looking society. Gender stable trans people can at least try to be less noticed and hope that we get left alone, but a gender fluid person is literally outing themselves time after time. And no, under current law gender fluidity is not even recognised, they get zero protection by the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The opening post was about changing names and/or gender on a daily basis, not what you are describing. Of course marriage or legal name change would be different.

Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?

I understand what you are saying and realize that tv/ts’s live in a harsh environment and deal with a lot. I didn't say anything to disrespect or hurt anyone. If I did, I apologize. I was just asking a question as I wasnt sure.

Once again, sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Of course marriage or legal name change would be different."

Why "of course"? Why this weird arbitrary meaningless difference that someone getting married is respected for their decision to change their name, but someone who *fundamentally* feels their gender is different isn't given that respect?

"Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?"

Lol. In short, no. As Polly has mentioned above, people off the gender binary are persecuted on a daily basis. This is such an alarmist and irrelevant question, it could've been printed in the Daily Mail. Can you provide any of these "areas of life" non-binary people apparently can get so much advantage in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally ridiculous and on par with having an imaginary friend accompany you to work.

But if a private company is willing to send money, time and resources towards this then that's their choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course marriage or legal name change would be different.

This whole topic is about changing on a DAILY BASIS.

Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?

Why is this an irrelevant or alarming question? I simply asked a question. Can we not have a conversation about a topic in which I sure don't know everything about?

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"This whole topic is about changing on a DAILY BASIS."

Why is this SO inconceivable to you? Lol. Are you so set in your ways that you cannot handle anything that changes on a daily basis? Why is this so difficult for you? Lol.

"Why is this an irrelevant or alarming question? I simply asked a question. Can we not have a conversation about a topic in which I sure don't know everything about? "

Yeh, you asked a question. And have so far received 2 answers, explaining why it's an alarmist (which is a different word and has a different meaning to the the word "alarming") question.

And we are exactly having a conversation already? That's literally what's happening here? But you apparently don't want to answer any questions, yet you demand answers to yours?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"Of course marriage or legal name change would be different.

Could a gender fluid person change between genders to take advantage in certain areas of life?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I personally think it's a lot of shite and they are causing problems that isn't there and thriving in the attention. Your there to do a job leave your personal stuff at home.

What problems has this really caused?

And if pronouns are so "personal", maybe we should just call everyone she/her. Why have any different pronouns for different people at all?

Again, if it's all so much hassle, why doesn't everyone just use she/her pronouns?

And no one is changing their pronoun on a whim. Lol.

And it's literally one of two pronouns. It's not like it's *any name*. Surely you can handle a choice of two pronouns (which you're already familiar with)? Lol

I generally wouldn't entertain it and not call them he or she or by their name. It would be you or they and by department name x

"They" is a perfectly acceptable cover-all pronoun to use, so that would be brilliant, actually.

I just don't know if calling someone "HR" would be identifying enough. Lol.

You're making an assumption that the person would be happy with "they". The person might not be ok with that.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Did a little googling last night. I had no idea that Trans and Gender fluidity are such a divisive issue to feminists.

Why?

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

If you add to this the map reading issue it’s a recipe for total chaos. Having taken a wrong turn and then unable to reverse this gender fluidity has the potential to bring the country to gridlock

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

If you add to this the map reading issue it’s a recipe for total chaos. Having taken a wrong turn and then unable to reverse this gender fluidity has the potential to bring the country to gridlock

And what if your just about to iron a blouse and all of a sudden football starts!! Fire!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did a little googling last night. I had no idea that Trans and Gender fluidity are such a divisive issue to feminists.

Why? "
.

Coz they can't sync periods and rant at each other

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"Did a little googling last night. I had no idea that Trans and Gender fluidity are such a divisive issue to feminists.

Why? "

Just realised posts have been removed so this will probably not make sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just hope this doesn't affect any lorry drivers. Imagine starting your journey ok, then suddenly you can't reverse!

If you add to this the map reading issue it’s a recipe for total chaos. Having taken a wrong turn and then unable to reverse this gender fluidity has the potential to bring the country to gridlock

And what if your just about to iron a blouse and all of a sudden football starts!! Fire!"

What the feck did you bring a blouse into this for ffs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I'd just avoid the person and if they tried to talk to me I'd just ignore them. Depending on the job its stressful enough and thats one stress I can't do with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seen some American woman online give her opinion on this..

What if big bearded 23 stone lorry driver who has been dressing up as an adult baby turns up at a nursery school demanding to be treated as a baby girl?

Enough is enough she went on the say. A line has to be drawn somewhere in all this fluidity.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"You're making an assumption that the person would be happy with "they". The person might not be ok with that. "

You're right, but in my experience, most people who have different, or changing, pronouns are more OK with you using "they" if you don't know their pronoun, because they appreciate the effort made when you acknowledge that you may not be using their correct one.

Because "they/them" does not assign a specific gender, in the way "he"/"she" does, which is why it's much less problematic.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Seen some American woman online give her opinion on this..

What if big bearded 23 stone lorry driver who has been dressing up as an adult baby turns up at a nursery school demanding to be treated as a baby girl?

Enough is enough she went on the say. A line has to be drawn somewhere in all this fluidity."

That's not the same at all and is a ridiculous statement to make. Just shows the level of ignorance that remains around this subject.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Personally I'd just avoid the person and if they tried to talk to me I'd just ignore them. Depending on the job its stressful enough and thats one stress I can't do with.

Mature

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Seen some American woman online give her opinion on this..

What if big bearded 23 stone lorry driver who has been dressing up as an adult baby turns up at a nursery school demanding to be treated as a baby girl?

Enough is enough she went on the say. A line has to be drawn somewhere in all this fluidity."

What you've done here is made a Strawman logical fallacy - where you exaggerate someone's argument to a ridiculous extent to make it easier to attack.

Literally no one has ever done this example, nor taken it to this type of extremity, so it's a moot point.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"Seen some American woman online give her opinion on this..

What if big bearded 23 stone lorry driver who has been dressing up as an adult baby turns up at a nursery school demanding to be treated as a baby girl?

Enough is enough she went on the say. A line has to be drawn somewhere in all this fluidity."

Which is just total shite strawman argument. Literally nobody is asking this. All that is being asked is that the 0.1% of people with slightly more complex gender identities than the 99.9% be treated with a little compassion and understanding. Much as you might hope that the 1% of people who have more unconventional sex lives than the 99% (ie. everyone on this site) might be allowed to live their lives without having being constantly labelled perverts by the Daily Mail. If you can get your head around bisexuality and bi questioning, it's not that hard to get your head around bi gendered and gender fluidity.

Get educated. Read the book Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano, throw away your copy of the Daily Mail.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Personally I'd just avoid the person and if they tried to talk to me I'd just ignore them. Depending on the job its stressful enough and thats one stress I can't do with.

Mature

Apparently calling someone by a word that they prefer to be called is too stressful to handle.

And apparently *we're* the delicate snowflakes who can't cope. Lol.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Seen some American woman online give her opinion on this..

What if big bearded 23 stone lorry driver who has been dressing up as an adult baby turns up at a nursery school demanding to be treated as a baby girl?

Enough is enough she went on the say. A line has to be drawn somewhere in all this fluidity.

Get educated. Read the book Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano, throw away your copy of the Daily Mail."

Polly is the level-headed hero we all need. Lol.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"Personally I'd just avoid the person and if they tried to talk to me I'd just ignore them. Depending on the job its stressful enough and thats one stress I can't do with.

Mature

Apparently calling someone by a word that they prefer to be called is too stressful to handle.

And apparently *we're* the delicate snowflakes who can't cope. Lol. "

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

All that is being asked is that the 0.1% of people with slightly more complex gender identities than the 99.9% be treated with a little compassion and understanding.

I am all for compassion and understanding. The idea that businesses and public buildings will have to provide seperate toilets is not realistic. The cost benefit for 0.1 % does not stack up. As for disabled toilets. Are they for the sole use of disabled people or are they a toilet that happens to be disabled friendly?

If the government legislate for trans toilets then will they need a separate toilet for disabled trans? It's cheaper if everyone spends a penny in the same toilet.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"You know,when i was at school in the 70s,left in 80 i think,i went to biology classes,and the teacher said this.......

Man-penis

Woman-vagina

she went to uni and all those years of hard word for nothing

What did she say about those born intersex? We weren't taught a lot of things in the 70s.

Apparently it existed in the 70's, but you got beat up for it or even killed.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

" All that is being asked is that the 0.1% of people with slightly more complex gender identities than the 99.9% be treated with a little compassion and understanding.

If the government legislate for trans toilets then will they need a separate toilet for disabled trans? It's cheaper if everyone spends a penny in the same toilet."

LITERALLY

NO-ONE

HAS

EVER

ASKED

FOR

TRANS

TOILETS

WTF

ARE

YOU

ABOUT

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"Let them use the disabled toilet, job done.

As for the name, just refer to the as mate or pat. It works for both sexes.

Will you all stop being mental about toilets? Every single trans person I know does everything they can to avoid trouble, including many that will hold it all day until they can go somewhere safe.

Cis people are just bloody weird

We are not and I have not talked about about trans people. We are talking about gender fluid and in this case their access to disabled toilets.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

LITERALLY

NO-ONE

HAS

EVER

ASKED

FOR

TRANS

TOILETS

WTF

Well I have heard men say they don't want them to use the gents. I have heard women say they don't want them to use the ladies and disabled say they don't want them using their toilets.

How do you resolve that ?

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"We are not and I have not talked about about trans people. We are talking about gender fluid and in this case their access to disabled toilets. "

(psssst - trans means you have a different gender to the one assigned to you at birth, so GF people will be trans.)

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

LITERALLY

NO-ONE

HAS

EVER

ASKED

FOR

TRANS

TOILETS

WTF

Well I have heard men say they don't want them to use the gents. I have heard women say they don't want them to use the ladies and disabled say they don't want them using their toilets.

How do you resolve that ?"

Um. None of that is actually suggesting "trans toilets"???

I would resolve it by telling those men and women to get the fuck over it and stop being such whiny fucking babies about it. Lol

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"We are not and I have not talked about about trans people. We are talking about gender fluid and in this case their access to disabled toilets.

(psssst - trans means you have a different gender to the one assigned to you at birth, so GF people will be trans.)"

I'd disagree. Transvestite doesn't mean you are a male wanting to physically be woman. With gender fluid I'd say it is quite opaque, more Pan as a descriptive, given they are choosing one or the other of the societally recognised labels - either male or female at the same time.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Either way it is not a disability and should not limit access to those with to resolve the issue.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"We are not and I have not talked about about trans people. We are talking about gender fluid and in this case their access to disabled toilets.

(psssst - trans means you have a different gender to the one assigned to you at birth, so GF people will be trans.)

("trans" is generally used as a shortened version of "transgender", not TV. "Pan" means "all", so wouldn't be appropriate either, here. Also, "pan" is used as shorthand for "pansexual")

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love reading threads like this...true colours always come out on them

Just live and let live....it is better for your health you know

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"I love reading threads like this...true colours always come out on them

Just live and let live....it is better for your health you know

This

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"We are not and I have not talked about about trans people. We are talking about gender fluid and in this case their access to disabled toilets.

(psssst - trans means you have a different gender to the one assigned to you at birth, so GF people will be trans.)

("trans" is generally used as a shortened version of "transgender", not TV. "Pan" means "all", so wouldn't be appropriate either, here. Also, "pan" is used as shorthand for "pansexual")"

But pan would, and trans wouldn't as you have just clearly explained. And again it would follow that access to disabled toilets would be a step too far. Mixed would be a better option as I said earlier.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I love reading threads like this...true colours always come out on them

Just live and let live....it is better for your health you know

Yes!! Lol.

I have a list of people who I know... have.... different opinions... to me, lol, and I've definitely rebuffed messages from men purely because I've seen them be total bigots on forum posts. Lol.

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By *r H and Good PetCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"But pan would, and trans wouldn't as you have just clearly explained. And again it would follow that access to disabled toilets would be a step too far. Mixed would be a better option as I said earlier."

No.... Because, like I said above, pan is already in use for a shorthand of a sexual orientation. It's like if you said "well, they identify as two genders, so why not call them "bi"?" No.

Also, we already have "mixed" toilets. Where they are currently split into male and female, there is no reason for transmen not to use the men's or transwomen not to use the ladies? And gender fluid people to use the one that matches their gender? I literally don't understand the problem here. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just going to put this out there. How does anyone else's gender identity become anyone else's business? Seriously? I don't care who uses what toilet, I don't care if someone decided they want to be known by a different name one day. I struggle with pronouns but that's the case in general for me.

As long as no one is disrespectful it's pretty simple.

Some of the comments I've read here aren't PC and that's up to the individual.

However there is a line when people become disrespectful and to be honest that makes my blood boil. There's no need.

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Equality - a step too far?