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Othello's real problem

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm a big fan of Billy's Othello, I've seen it on the stage nine times and each time it leaves me amazed by Billly's insight and understanding of human nature.

It's inspired a hypothetical question, here are two scenarios:

1. Your partner acting with deceit and intent tries to be unfaithful to you but through no fault of theirs or lack of desire they fail to pull it off.

2. Your partner transparently openly and honestly has sex with someone else but it's against your explicit will.

Which scenario is the more hurtful or unforgiveable? I know it's easy to say both, but if you had to choose one?

This is not about the 'morals' of cheating, it's just a question to understand what is your worst of two bad scenarios.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hummm hard one, trying to cheat but not pulling it off wouldnt cut with me im afraid, they fact they tried is the main factor

But then if my partner went against my wishes i think i would be more upset

Id have to say number two would be the hardest to forgive for me, because once that had happened id feel i could never trust them again not to do something i had made clear i didnt want them to do, and once the trust has gone you have nothing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Clearly option two.

In law you can't convict someone for having a criminal intention (men's rea). You need a criminal act as well (actus reas).

Option two has both.

Also, it's not hard to be unfaithful. If they really wanted to do it they would have.

In my opinion ha ha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me number 1 is the worst.

If my partner was open and honest with me about having sex with someone, even though I forbade it then, whilst I would be very upset, I would recognise that he is his own person, I am not his keeper, and he has his own thoughts and desires.

Most people who have been cheated on say it is the not knowing, the deceit, the lying, that is worse, not the actual sex act.

Whilst with this scenario, I would be more at ease that he had enough respect for me not to lie, deceive or treat me as a fool. That he would admit to an act of selfishness but not make a fool out of me by going behind my back and being happy to lie to my face. Though I'd be furious that I didn't have control.

But a big part of me knows that if I want something in life, if I really really want it, and I was forbidden by someone else to have it, I'd struggle with my conscience, but eventually I'd probably go for it - a typical Eve in the garden of Eden. Therefore part of me would have the understanding of his decision. Though it wouldn't be sex that would make me go against his wishes as that's not an important issue to me. But travel or a career would I think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A person could be unfaithful once and keep it a secret for years. His or her partner never suspects a thing and life together is blissful and happy. Then something happens and the illicit liason comes to light.

Does that make the intervening years irrelevant? A falsehood?

No, it doesn't. What it does prove though is that the heart doesn't grieve about something of which the mind knows nothing.

To answer the OP, I'd be more upset if my partner openly had sex with someone else against my wishes as that shows a complete lack of respect for my feelings, ergo a complete lack of respect for me as her partner.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"hummm hard one, trying to cheat but not pulling it off wouldnt cut with me im afraid, they fact they tried is the main factor

But then if my partner went against my wishes i think i would be more upset

Id have to say number two would be the hardest to forgive for me, because once that had happened id feel i could never trust them again not to do something i had made clear i didnt want them to do, and once the trust has gone you have nothing"

If it comes down to being a trust issue, are you suggesting the 'trust' would be any less broken if you caught them in a lie?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Clearly option two.

In law you can't convict someone for having a criminal intention (men's rea). You need a criminal act as well (actus reas).

Option two has both.

Also, it's not hard to be unfaithful. If they really wanted to do it they would have.

In my opinion ha ha "

Are you sure?

What about Attempted Murder, Attempted *any crime*. It is my understanding in law that they are also criminal offences that you can be convicted of and carry the same penalty as if the 'attempt' had been successful.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"..............

To answer the OP, I'd be more upset if my partner openly had sex with someone else against my wishes as that shows a complete lack of respect for my feelings, ergo a complete lack of respect for me as her partner."

What about your partners feelings, desires, wants etc? Does this maybe show characteristics of ownership or control? Should your partner be the only one who has to surpress their feelings?

Respect for feelings is a two way street.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tempted of course to say both

But logically to me it's the latter one

To actually rub it in their face is worse than keeping it from them in a way

The latter kind of shows regards for their feelings at the very least

But although certainly no saint in the past myself I don't condone either xx

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

no 1 for me, if anyone is deceitfull or lies to me they would be gone. More than just having sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you openly lied to your partner and intended to be deceiptful and the only thing that stopped you was the other party wasn't willing, then you have no respect for them either. Its going on the 'what they don't know can't hurt them' basis. But its making a fool of them, letting them think all is rosy,

Whereas the 2nd is still disregarding their wishes, but its not lying to them. The crime is selfishness. You could say they didn't care about you, but what it means is they care enough to tell you they are doing a selfish act.

Both extremely hurtful. But at least if you knew someone would be honest, regardless of whether it hurt you, then you wouldn't have to worry every day or check up on them, you would know if there were problems, you would be faced with them head on to deal with.

If you found out your partner had lied to you, had intent to hurt you but didn't, but only because they failed in their quest, you would always be distrustful as you wouldn't know when they were lying to you. Your life would be surrounded in uncertainty

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey


"I'm a big fan of Billy's Othello, I've seen it on the stage nine times and each time it leaves me amazed by Billly's insight and understanding of human nature.

It's inspired a hypothetical question, here are two scenarios:

1. Your partner acting with deceit and intent tries to be unfaithful to you but through no fault of theirs or lack of desire they fail to pull it off.

2. Your partner transparently openly and honestly has sex with someone else but it's against your explicit will.

Which scenario is the more hurtful or unforgiveable? I know it's easy to say both, but if you had to choose one?

This is not about the 'morals' of cheating, it's just a question to understand what is your worst of two bad scenarios. "

Both would be hurtful but think that number 1 would be more unforgiveable.

As it is something they were doing behind my back and plotting & planning.

Number 2 would hurt me but at least they were being open & honest about it.

Honesty is really important to me!

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Number 1 would at least be without my knowledge,although deceitful and although they did'nt manage to pull it off,I could carry on with life blissfully unaware for the forseeable future at least,because I believe that once that seed of desire to be deceitful has planted itself in someones mind then it will just grow and grow until it has been fulfilled or they have been found out

Number 2 would be worse for me,I see that as blatent in your face im doing this regardless of your feelings and because im being honest and making you aware it takes all the guilt and selfishness away therefore you deal with that as my conscience is clear thankyou very much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you sure?

What about Attempted Murder, Attempted *any crime*. It is my understanding in law that they are also criminal offences that you can be convicted of and carry the same penalty as if the 'attempt' had been successful.

Yes I am sure but take your point. For example, if you shot someone and thought they were dead (but they weren't) and then tossed the body over a bridge and the fall killed them, you could only be tried for attempted murder even though you did kill them. I could explain the legals but who has time for that?

Besides, from the victims point of view AND getting back to your question, which is worse, someone attempting to murder you or actually doing it??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Better not to know.

Been there. Didn't know when it was happening but knew the next day because she couldn't wait to tell me. She'd done it to make me jealous because I didn't love her as much as she loved me. She wanted my babies and I didn't want to settle down. It had the opposite of the desired effect and it made me very dark and very mean.

Once a little of your trust has been chipped away it doesn't grow back, so everybody after them gets less.

I seriously wish she'd never told me. Mind, the NSU and crabs she gave me from him might've been a clue. We'd have split up anyway but at least I'd still have all my trust intact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Option 1 would be less harmful to me personally. There are only so many words you can say outside of your head to a person who openly flaunts their intentions. Arguments and discussion will eventually end one on one but the head pictures are a life sentence.

The worst thing for anyone who has been cheated on, I imagine, is living with the reasoning, analysis and arguing inside of their own heads, not the real act of the other person.

In matters such as these you can be your own worst enemy. I know me and my mindset, so I would like to live in blissful oblivion as I cannot cope with my own thoughts that go into override in situations where I am lied to (or generally upset) by others. Having an analytical mind and vivid imagination can sometimes be a burden.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Just had a chat with someone about this, so thought I'd bump it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

2. Your partner transparently openly and honestly has sex with someone else but it's against your explicit will.

"

But was there a Pink Dildo involved though?

Cos that makes all the difference bro!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Just had a chat with someone about this, so thought I'd bump it. "

How long ago did you post this?

Both go against your wishes so the question is how you find out? I think it would be number 1 for me as I would always be wondering if they would have got it out of their system if they had succeeded.

The hurt would be not talking about rather than the deed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2 would be more hurtful due to the blatant lack of respect for my wish(es).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Clearly option two.

In law you can't convict someone for having a criminal intention (men's rea). You need a criminal act as well (actus reas).

Option two has both.

Also, it's not hard to be unfaithful. If they really wanted to do it they would have.

In my opinion ha ha

Are you sure?

What about Attempted Murder, Attempted *any crime*. It is my understanding in law that they are also criminal offences that you can be convicted of and carry the same penalty as if the 'attempt' had been successful. "

Quite, indeed the CPS website states (last time i looked) for example that the "offence" of perverting the course of justice occurs the instant the intention to do so occurs.

Back to Othello, are we to assume that the other partner is impeccably virtuous in this? Not saying that a revenge shag is any better.

Having to choose i'd say 2.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Often, in such cases, the most hurtful situation is for the offended partner to be the last to find out.

On the other hand, if yer best mates wife is playing about, do you tell him and if so how? Ahem, unless it's with you of course

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Just had a chat with someone about this, so thought I'd bump it.

How long ago did you post this?

"

At least 18 months ago because that's the last time I saw Othello, that said, it might have been the time before that.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Just had a chat with someone about this, so thought I'd bump it.

How long ago did you post this?

At least 18 months ago because that's the last time I saw Othello, that said, it might have been the time before that. "

I thought I hadn't seen this one before.

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