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NHS rant

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So I hope all of you who work as nurses or doctors don’t take offence, because I think you do a wonderful amazing job.

If it wasn’t for you guys I may not be here now!!

My rant is this, the NHS is reportedly the third largest employer in the world, yet this week we have seen B.J wanting to pour billions more into the system.

Trouble is the money seems to go on more and more administration and not where it counts, that is wrong. I just feel the NHS has become a massive ecconomic mess and hate to say it, but probably needs a complete overhaul or scrapping. Sorry if that offends but it’s something I feel needs debating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd suggest you're not far off wrong.

So much money appears to be wasted on admin, management, committees, and such like.

I don't believe the NHS is sustainable in its current form, and needs a radical solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Always happend more managers evrry dsy slowly being privstised via the back door.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

It certainly seems that there is a mismatch of managing the NHS but don't detract from the valuable work the admin staff do. If it weren't for admin staff doing the job they do, Drs, nurses and consultants would not be able to see the number of patients they do because the admin work doesn't go away and they will have to do it.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Crazy thing is OP I got rid of a lot of middle management about a decade ago I think.

It's in a mess but the hands on staff are angels.

The NHS is getting ripped off by medical suppliers aswell.

I get my painkillers for 19p in a supermarket. That's just a small, very small example.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I agree about the supply chain, but I think this is to do with the way buying is done, if it was a privately run sector the purchAsing would be more responsibly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As someone sang, back in the 80's...

'Rip it up and start again'

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I didn't get rid of any managers by the way. I didn't check my spelling

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

More nurses less admin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

A+E waiting times used to be about 3 hours at the most.

We were all disgusted by that but accepted it.

That's now 12 hours quite often and have no option but to accept it.

I've broken my leg (currently) and have a 10 day wait till I can see someone who will decide what to do next. No problems as it's not painful but if there others like me who are in pain I feel very sorry them.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff


"More nurses less admin

"

More hospitals

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By *iss SJWoman
over a year ago

Hull


"A+E waiting times used to be about 3 hours at the most.

We were all disgusted by that but accepted it.

That's now 12 hours quite often and have no option but to accept it.

I've broken my leg (currently) and have a 10 day wait till I can see someone who will decide what to do next. No problems as it's not painful but if there others like me who are in pain I feel very sorry them."

The problem with GP’s is you have to wait 2 weeks for an appointment

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

..


"Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin."

Absolutely this. The lack of social care has a huge impact on the provision in hospitals for example. People going to A & E when they don’t need to. Lack of staff, overpriced supply staff being used .... outrageous costs for consultants and drugs etc etc

The NHS is incredible and we don’t appreciate it and look after it appropriately and that isn’t helped by the fact it is overseen by current government ... it’s the same in Education. These things should be managed centrally, cross party management with a long term strategic plan. Throwing money at it without reform is foolish. So much money is wasted with each party in control - change for change sake, investment in the wrong things and turning a blind eye to the major factors that impact, the repercussions felt long after.

If we want to see how bad things could get, just look to America.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The whole public sector is run like this, NHS, education, police, military, all of it. If you work in it and care about it, it can be massively frustrating. I gave up and now just bitch about it as a taxpayer.....

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff


"A+E waiting times used to be about 3 hours at the most.

We were all disgusted by that but accepted it.

That's now 12 hours quite often and have no option but to accept it.

I've broken my leg (currently) and have a 10 day wait till I can see someone who will decide what to do next. No problems as it's not painful but if there others like me who are in pain I feel very sorry them.

The problem with GP’s is you have to wait 2 weeks for an appointment "

I also went there yesterday at 8.30am and appointments had gone.

Went into the pharmacist but they didn't really help but people should at least try that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I hope all of you who work as nurses or doctors don’t take offence, because I think you do a wonderful amazing job.

If it wasn’t for you guys I may not be here now!!

My rant is this, the NHS is reportedly the third largest employer in the world, yet this week we have seen B.J wanting to pour billions more into the system.

Trouble is the money seems to go on more and more administration and not where it counts, that is wrong. I just feel the NHS has become a massive ecconomic mess and hate to say it, but probably needs a complete overhaul or scrapping. Sorry if that offends but it’s something I feel needs debating

"

I fear that this is the plan. Send it to ruin so everything can be privatised x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there is an evergrowing number of people staying alive longer that need more out of the nhs -

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral


"Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin."

Totally agree. GP’s also need to step it up too IMO. I had tonsillitis twice in December & was very ill. I couldn’t get an appointment with my GP for 5 days, the out of hours service was fully booked & only take ‘on the day’ appointments, so I ended up at the walk in clinic at the hospital. They were fantastic, I was seen within the hour & given the drugs that I needed. But I shouldn’t have had to take up hospital resources to do that.

More patients living longer creates more need. The only answer is for more medics & more medical facilities to cope with it. Not sure whether that needs investment in further education to encourage more people into medical degrees or nursing courses, recruitment from abroad or utilising some of the private medical sector facilities ...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a similar thread recently I posted that overy half nhs employers are clinical staff (doctors amd nurses in basic terminology), roughly a quarter are clinical support staff and around 3% are managers. So that's about 20% as admin and support staff.

So let's hear suggestions for which NHS roles we can do away with?

The NHS is failing because of chronic under resourcing and an inability to retain staff. The 2 are slowly linked. It's got fuck all to do with the amount of admin staff who are in exactly the same pressurised position as all clinical staff are

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin.

Absolutely this. The lack of social care has a huge impact on the provision in hospitals for example. People going to A & E when they don’t need to. Lack of staff, overpriced supply staff being used .... outrageous costs for consultants and drugs etc etc

The NHS is incredible and we don’t appreciate it and look after it appropriately and that isn’t helped by the fact it is overseen by current government ... it’s the same in Education. These things should be managed centrally, cross party management with a long term strategic plan. Throwing money at it without reform is foolish. So much money is wasted with each party in control - change for change sake, investment in the wrong things and turning a blind eye to the major factors that impact, the repercussions felt long after.

If we want to see how bad things could get, just look to America. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin.

Absolutely this. The lack of social care has a huge impact on the provision in hospitals for example. People going to A & E when they don’t need to. Lack of staff, overpriced supply staff being used .... outrageous costs for consultants and drugs etc etc

The NHS is incredible and we don’t appreciate it and look after it appropriately and that isn’t helped by the fact it is overseen by current government ... it’s the same in Education. These things should be managed centrally, cross party management with a long term strategic plan. Throwing money at it without reform is foolish. So much money is wasted with each party in control - change for change sake, investment in the wrong things and turning a blind eye to the major factors that impact, the repercussions felt long after.

If we want to see how bad things could get, just look to America. "

Exactly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also we now live in a blame society. This means hospitals are having to employ legal experts because some didn’t get the meal they asked for. Sounds ridiculous but this has happened. I know that doesn’t impact a great deal but but it adds to growing costs.

There is a total lack of respect for the NHS and a total lack of understanding of what it’s actually there for.

Yes every Tory government in the past 30 years has tried to rip it apart but that’s due to the every increasing cost to keep it going. Use it correctly, manage it correctly and invest in it correctly and everyone will benefit from a fantastic public service.

Oh and the Labour Party weren't much better. Promising us extra nurses and failing to find them because they wouldn’t make the role more financially attractive by pay a descent wage.

Sorry but this is something I feel strongly about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also we now live in a blame society. This means hospitals are having to employ legal experts because some didn’t get the meal they asked for. Sounds ridiculous but this has happened. I know that doesn’t impact a great deal but but it adds to growing costs.

There is a total lack of respect for the NHS and a total lack of understanding of what it’s actually there for.

Yes every Tory government in the past 30 years has tried to rip it apart but that’s due to the every increasing cost to keep it going. Use it correctly, manage it correctly and invest in it correctly and everyone will benefit from a fantastic public service.

Oh and the Labour Party weren't much better. Promising us extra nurses and failing to find them because they wouldn’t make the role more financially attractive by pay a descent wage.

Sorry but this is something I feel strongly about.

"

Sorry for the poor spelling

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I think this thread illustrates that most people don't understand what the NHS is and how it works.

The bits that everyone looks at and gets concerned about is hospital access, waiting times and operations. Then they blame lack of GP appointments on having to go to hospital, impacting on waiting times etc. Or, going to pharmacies and not getting exactly what they want.

It's a complex system. We don't have enough GPs and fewer people are choosing to be GPs because of the costs and regulatory burden they face, along with the insistence that they should be available out of hours etc. One practice with 2 GPs just can't manage to be available before 8am and after 6pm and on the weekend.

Do away with practice managers and there will be even fewer GPs. Treat GPs better and we might see a reduction in those hospital queues. More GPs mean more people will be seen and appointment times can be longer.

Instead, it is easier for them to take the private contracts with the online companies and provide you with a phone or Skype service. This all helps to bleed the system and will leave to more and more privatisation.

Pharmacies are losing their contracts so there are fewer pharmacists available to see people.

We're losing dentists and mental health practitioners. Older people are not just able to die now; everyone expects and gets some medical intervention. But it's no ok to say someone died of old-age - they all have to have something wrong with them.

There is no way that Virgin should have been allowed to have a contract that meant that they get paid when they fail to win an NHS health contract. Like Carillion, the system is paying for those sort of things and that is about political ideology and not having the right level of management and admin to ensure the deals work for us and not private profit.

Technology has done much but it doesn't come free. New discoveries on things that go wrong with our bodies leads to new treatments. There is public outcry if someone doesn't get access to this new treatment, regardless of what it costs. If an hospital is listed for closure there is an outcry.

We are the system - our interactions and behaviours affect how the NHS behaves. If 'people' are serious about ripping it up and starting again than 'they' have to stop accessing it in every way and make alternative arrangements. If enough people are serious and do that then there will be a change. But that won't happen as 'people' want to moan and set out what's wrong with it and decry that it needs to change and all the managers and admin need to go. As long as they don't have to feel any negative effects of any change.

Read the late David Tang's article in praise of the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also we now live in a blame society. This means hospitals are having to employ legal experts because some didn’t get the meal they asked for. Sounds ridiculous but this has happened. I know that doesn’t impact a great deal but but it adds to growing costs.

There is a total lack of respect for the NHS and a total lack of understanding of what it’s actually there for.

Yes every Tory government in the past 30 years has tried to rip it apart but that’s due to the every increasing cost to keep it going. Use it correctly, manage it correctly and invest in it correctly and everyone will benefit from a fantastic public service.

Oh and the Labour Party weren't much better. Promising us extra nurses and failing to find them because they wouldn’t make the role more financially attractive by pay a descent wage.

Sorry but this is something I feel strongly about.

"

Good points made there x

Definitely need more public awareness of what the nhs has to deal with. I also believe there are too many of the population in the "sick role", treat this issue and much of the pressure would be relieved.

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By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds

[Removed by poster at 27/01/18 20:29:53]

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By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"So I hope all of you who work as nurses or doctors don’t take offence, because I think you do a wonderful amazing job.

If it wasn’t for you guys I may not be here now!!

My rant is this, the NHS is reportedly the third largest employer in the world, yet this week we have seen B.J wanting to pour billions more into the system.

Trouble is the money seems to go on more and more administration and not where it counts, that is wrong. I just feel the NHS has become a massive ecconomic mess and hate to say it, but probably needs a complete overhaul or scrapping. Sorry if that offends but it’s something I feel needs debating

"

So what are you basing this opinion on?

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By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"So I hope all of you who work as nurses or doctors don’t take offence, because I think you do a wonderful amazing job.

If it wasn’t for you guys I may not be here now!!

My rant is this, the NHS is reportedly the third largest employer in the world, yet this week we have seen B.J wanting to pour billions more into the system.

Trouble is the money seems to go on more and more administration and not where it counts, that is wrong. I just feel the NHS has become a massive ecconomic mess and hate to say it, but probably needs a complete overhaul or scrapping. Sorry if that offends but it’s something I feel needs debating

I fear that this is the plan. Send it to ruin so everything can be privatised x"

Oldest trick in the book

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a nurse. We now do more that the doctors used to do, the doctors do more of what consultants do and consultants don’t really do much other than teach which is of course important.

I live in the south west in cornwall where I’ve seen the small satellite hospitals close and become minor injury units and the pressure loaded up on the county hospital. Putting pressure on waiting times, staff, resources and beds. It’s ridiculous. I’ve just taken a job in one of the minor local hospitals in Day surgery but the pressure is being put on our unit to take more complex cases and to take some of the strain from the big county hospital.

Not wanting to get policital in anyway but brexit has stopped nurses from overseas wanting to come and work in the nhs. Also lots of newly qualified nurses are quitting because of the amount of pressure on them now. The whole system needs a shake up.

It’s just not working yet us frontline staff are working to the bone. Somethings got to give.

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By *iss.HoneyWoman
over a year ago

...

I have nothing bad to say about them.

They are amazing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have nothing bad to say about them.

They are amazing "

Thank you it’s nice to feel valued

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I have nothing bad to say about them.

They are amazing "

I agree.

My family is in the midst of receiving specialist, high level NHS care and we are grateful a) that it is there, b) that it is being delivered well and c) impressed with the level of knowledge, skill and care being applied.

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By *iss.HoneyWoman
over a year ago

...


"I have nothing bad to say about them.

They are amazing

I agree.

My family is in the midst of receiving specialist, high level NHS care and we are grateful a) that it is there, b) that it is being delivered well and c) impressed with the level of knowledge, skill and care being applied.

"

I was going to mail, but yes,much the same.

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By *queekyCheesyCouple
over a year ago

newark

Saw something ages ago, dispatches or whatever. About how the food has to be gluten free etc etc.

Getting charged 400 quid for a loaf of bread.. for example

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!"

I stopped reading g about 4 lines in. You do realise that without immigrants the NHS would have collapsed years ago?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t just blame the admin. Ask the question why the NHS is under so much pressure. People are living longer and as we get older we require more care. Immigration has increased year on year for the past 2 decades. People don’t understand how the NHS should be used, rather than waiting a few days to see a GP they go to a&e which add to the pressure in hospitals.

The NHS was never designed to cope with the amount of people that’s are using it now.

So yes changes need to be made and they are being made but due to a lack of funding they are being made very slowly. Health care trusts are now being run as businesses and for that you need management and admin."
.

Totally agree.. with advances in health and science, longevity and research there will always been a downfall which is why privatisation will happen in the near future.. admin play a major role, but when people happily take "free or reduced " prescriptions when it costs a fraction of the price if they buy it themselves we have to ask ourselves.. " have we helped this downfall" I do work for the NHS and I do not get paid any where near what I should for what I do! I'd get more working the same hours in a shop

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The conservatives spent £billions in reorganization costs of the NHS after their election pledge not to - the government causes inefficiencies. But it is actually much more effective and efficient than private global healthcare services such as in the USA.

Don't buy into the stories and propaganda churned out by right wing media.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is certain culture that inter breed and have a lot of deformed of spring , that need very fast education, because we the tax payer and nhs have to pick up the bill for , fact . So that alone needs looking at to help

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!"

Are you saying if you get sick you wouldn't use the NHS?

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By *arrasicMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!

I stopped reading g about 4 lines in. You do realise that without immigrants the NHS would have collapsed years ago?"

Don't think he's saying its imigrants but if thers going to be more peaple to treat then course you need more hospitals schools house's so will have to build on green belt land yes it may be next to someone's village country home. someone will have to deside one day .makes no difference how many doctors nurses we get in if thers no where to put the beds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!

I stopped reading g about 4 lines in. You do realise that without immigrants the NHS would have collapsed years ago?

Don't think he's saying its imigrants but if thers going to be more peaple to treat then course you need more hospitals schools house's so will have to build on green belt land yes it may be next to someone's village country home. someone will have to deside one day .makes no difference how many doctors nurses we get in if thers no where to put the beds"

You're quite right, I ignored the previous reply as quite clearly they like jumping on any thread that mentions immigrants or migrants and assume the worse. They then feel the need to martyrdom by stating they couldn't bear to read the rest of the post even though they actually did. It gives them a false moral compass they hope will impress other readers and make them drop their knickers. All it really achieves is making them look ignorant.

Bit like mentioning the words Black or Asian in a post.. The same dickheads will introduce the racism card without understanding the context of the post.

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By *ardiffCoupleNJCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd/Rhyfelin

There is actually much right with the NHS.

The main problem is underfunding.

fact: it is predicted that due to a rapidly aging population we must increase spending by 4% per year for the next 20 years just to stand still. Take into account improvements in medicine and we need to spend even more. Just to stand still. Yet government spending doesn't come close to this i.e. spending has and continues to be cut year by year when these alarming statistics are factored in.

To improve waiting times spend more! Seeeemple no?

Of course the Tories have been saying less tax is good for decades and now everyone believes we can have more by spending less....ermmmm nah!

As a % of GDP we spend less than the US, France, Germany, Japan and Canada on healthcare.

The not much wrong with the NHS given the levels of funding. Not perfect by any means. Underfunding is far and away the biggest problem.

So....who's prepared to pay more tax to find it....? Anyone?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There is actually much right with the NHS.

The main problem is underfunding.

fact: it is predicted that due to a rapidly aging population we must increase spending by 4% per year for the next 20 years just to stand still. Take into account improvements in medicine and we need to spend even more. Just to stand still. Yet government spending doesn't come close to this i.e. spending has and continues to be cut year by year when these alarming statistics are factored in.

To improve waiting times spend more! Seeeemple no?

Of course the Tories have been saying less tax is good for decades and now everyone believes we can have more by spending less....ermmmm nah!

As a % of GDP we spend less than the US, France, Germany, Japan and Canada on healthcare.

The not much wrong with the NHS given the levels of funding. Not perfect by any means. Underfunding is far and away the biggest problem.

So....who's prepared to pay more tax to find it....? Anyone?"

Exactly. The reason is the government don't WANT the NHS.. It's a burden it eats resources and is unmanageable to them. They withold funding purposefully.. They have billions to throw at weapons trading, arms deals and such like.. Things that make them a profit from our taxes yet we see no return on these profits! Systemic underfunding, media manipulated bias that its collapsing, VirginCare already implemented in the North East.. It's all designed to have you and I believe that it's no longer viable to have a public health service. What's profitable for the tory government is to have private health care.. Millionaire private corporations running our health sector.. All the tax these corporations will have to pay.. Just imagine!

It's age old tory policy.. Strip the country of its assets, sell off public owned utilities, shut down our industry, then pass on the economic fallout to the taxpayer, all the while implementing austerity measures, blaming everyone else and telling us 'it's for the best'.

Wait for the big pharmaceutical companies to publicly step into the mix soon... They're already knocking on the door of number 10!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS would save a lot of money if they employed full time and not agency staff for a start!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There is actually much right with the NHS.

The main problem is underfunding.

fact: it is predicted that due to a rapidly aging population we must increase spending by 4% per year for the next 20 years just to stand still. Take into account improvements in medicine and we need to spend even more. Just to stand still. Yet government spending doesn't come close to this i.e. spending has and continues to be cut year by year when these alarming statistics are factored in.

To improve waiting times spend more! Seeeemple no?

Of course the Tories have been saying less tax is good for decades and now everyone believes we can have more by spending less....ermmmm nah!

As a % of GDP we spend less than the US, France, Germany, Japan and Canada on healthcare.

The not much wrong with the NHS given the levels of funding. Not perfect by any means. Underfunding is far and away the biggest problem.

So....who's prepared to pay more tax to find it....? Anyone?"

Hold on Germany don't have a health service they pay insurance!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NHS_Spending_1948-2014.png

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So what is the answer to sort it we all need to die younger or get the government to do something about it as at end of the day we are the ones who say who runs the country but every time we do it doesn't get done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now here's a thing:

Our NHS was designed to provide health care for the UK. It worked, it's always worked. Now, when you open the doors to migration and immigration and have an influx of human beings from other countries, then it's quite clear the NHS isn't going to cope... In much the same way we have a housing crisis and a job crisis. You can't create wealth out of thin air to fund the extra social support for the foreign intake at the rate we have taken them in. So, what happens?... The country is then forced to 'borrow' more 'money' from the private banks of Israel. We cannot pay back the debt without increasing taxes on the public. So, you and I are paying for a crisis that we didn't create.

Now, that's lamen terms, when you realise that money doesn't actually exist and the whole global economy is based on global fraud and credit you'll question your reality further. You also have to wonder why Virgin has already rolled out its private health care service and that Dickard Ransom fella is already ploughing over £50 million into it. Why?... Because the tory government wants to systematically destroy the NHS thus saving it from any responsibility and financial liability. Destroying the NHS, publicising its failings that they themselves created, the government promotes private health care as it is more profitable to them. Instill fear into you and me by reporting waiting lists, no beds, deaths in corridors and we'll all pay for private health care to 'guarantee' reliable treatment won't we? But where do all these private beds and hospitals come from? Where are all these private surgeons and doctors now? Why aren't they assisting with the NHS crisis you may ask?

Well they are! The very same NHS doctors and hospitals are treating the private health care payers! Money talks.. Pay and you get treated quicker.. The very ethos that the NHS was created to avoid!

So, while you're waiting for a new hip or waiting to have a tumour removed, just remember that some woman who wants bigger breasts pays £30.00 a month to have her implants done before your cancer can be removed.

This is what is wrong with this country, not the fact we welcome overseas human beings into our fold, but the fact that our corrupt government and the private banks it borrows money from, always put wealth over health, profitability over humanity and themselves before others... The NWO is closer than you think.

Stop the world, I want to get off!

I stopped reading g about 4 lines in. You do realise that without immigrants the NHS would have collapsed years ago?

Don't think he's saying its imigrants but if thers going to be more peaple to treat then course you need more hospitals schools house's so will have to build on green belt land yes it may be next to someone's village country home. someone will have to deside one day .makes no difference how many doctors nurses we get in if thers no where to put the beds

You're quite right, I ignored the previous reply as quite clearly they like jumping on any thread that mentions immigrants or migrants and assume the worse. They then feel the need to martyrdom by stating they couldn't bear to read the rest of the post even though they actually did. It gives them a false moral compass they hope will impress other readers and make them drop their knickers. All it really achieves is making them look ignorant.

Bit like mentioning the words Black or Asian in a post.. The same dickheads will introduce the racism card without understanding the context of the post.

"

Am interesting conclusion given that all I did was comment on the first part of the post. The claim thst the rise of immigration is why the NHS cannot cope is completely flawed simply because without immigrants there would have been a catastrophic staffing issue years ago.

I posed a question that is all

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By *icassolifelikeMan
over a year ago

Luton

NHS like the military is fucked. NHS Nurses are either tapping out the profession all together or going to an agency where they get paid much more. There’s no investment in leadership so when nurses rise up the bands they’re incompetent to the needs of their subordinates. Military’s getting fucked because there is no investement for the lads to actually go and do things. Trying to get money for Adventurous Training is like getting blood from a stone. Trying to exchange kit it literally needs to be hanging by a thread. No investment in infrastructure so the lads are sleeping in damp quarters, and married quarters are an absolute joke. These are from what I see on a daily basis and close sources to the NHS from two A&E depts.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff


"The NHS would save a lot of money if they employed full time and not agency staff for a start! "

I remember they sacked a shit load of nurses about a decade ago and then employed agency staff from Asia.

I remember the radio interviews of nurses who had trained to do their job in this country only to have the job removed and later on through panic given to anyone and in this case a lot from Asian countries using agencies.

I'm not sure on pay difference nor which government it was but I do remember the anguish of the sacked nurses who spoke up about it.

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By *lmostthereMan
over a year ago

Southampton

The argument that you can run enormous, and incredibly complex £100s of million organisations without administrators and managers is a weak one. The NHS is actually incredibly management lean.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff


"The argument that you can run enormous, and incredibly complex £100s of million organisations without administrators and managers is a weak one. The NHS is actually incredibly management lean.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers"

Clicking links on my phone isn't easy so I haven't read that but perhaps it's a lot better now than it used to be in regards to managers on huge salaries compared to the foot soldiers (as it would be). There probably was too many on too much money but it's been trimmed now.

Wether you could trim further is obviously another question one which I don't have answer for.

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By *lmostthereMan
over a year ago

Southampton


"The argument that you can run enormous, and incredibly complex £100s of million organisations without administrators and managers is a weak one. The NHS is actually incredibly management lean.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers

Clicking links on my phone isn't easy so I haven't read that but perhaps it's a lot better now than it used to be in regards to managers on huge salaries compared to the foot soldiers (as it would be). There probably was too many on too much money but it's been trimmed now.

Wether you could trim further is obviously another question one which I don't have answer for."

Oh there is no doubt that there is too much bureaucracy but that is mostly (in my opinion) in my opinion outside of provider organisations. In 2009, the average pay of a CEO of a foundation trust was paid £157k. If you compare that to a a private sector organisation of a similar size and turnover it is very reasonable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/01/18 12:39:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I hope all of you who work as nurses or doctors don’t take offence, because I think you do a wonderful amazing job.

If it wasn’t for you guys I may not be here now!!

My rant is this, the NHS is reportedly the third largest employer in the world, yet this week we have seen B.J wanting to pour billions more into the system.

Trouble is the money seems to go on more and more administration and not where it counts, that is wrong. I just feel the NHS has become a massive ecconomic mess and hate to say it, but probably needs a complete overhaul or scrapping. Sorry if that offends but it’s something I feel needs debating

"

Most ridiculous post I've read on Fab. And that takes some doing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Similar was done with failing schools. The government sees them as a burden, so they put pay freezes in place, move targets, make it appear the system isn't working.. Then employ private sector 'academies' to run them. This then washes their hands of any liability and they can sit back and collect taxes from the private corporations that run them.

It's pretty straightforward.. 'Make yourself look good by solving a problem that you created' tactic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a current student nurse and ex NHS Assistant Director, I’m in a unique position, both in my experience and knowledge of how the NHS works.

So much of what’s been said is true - increasing population; longevity; increase in technology; increase in medical developments meaning that pts live longer with complex issues; social care decimated so more pressure on nhs; lifestyles leading to obesity, diabetes, heard disease etc; PFI schemes costing a fortune; commercialisation - leading to complex financial and contracting issues; suppliers charging silly prices for essentials such as gloves and equipment; pharmaceutical companies holding us over a barrel with extortionionate drug costs; less staff being trained; less overseas staff due to brexit; staff burnout - more nurses are now leaving each year than are joining the nhs; 1 in 9 nurse posts vacant ........

Fixing the nhs isn’t going to be easy, but I’m passionate about our nhs as are many others - but changing the system is almost impossible from grass roots.

My solution- renationalise with cross party leadership.

By removing politics we remove the ‘new government, must show we’ve done something; let’s reorganise’ culture.

By removing commercialisation the estimates are a saving of £6 billion - reinvest that into services.

By having proper debates on what the nhs should provide and if there are things that it shouldn’t and then implementing that consistently

By properly understanding best practice and then apply consistently - this includes staffing levels 1 Jnr Dr covering 4 wards (that’s approx 130 pts) 12-14 patient to 1 qualifies nurse plus all the other clinical and non clinical staffing (that I don’t know enough about to quote)

There endth my demon for a Sunday !!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

That’s fantastic

Publish it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One thing is for sure - it is now unsustainable - no matter how much money you throw at it (which is Labour's answer to everything of course) - nothing major will really change.

Needs a radical re-think.

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By *ardiffCoupleNJCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd/Rhyfelin


"There is actually much right with the NHS.

The main problem is underfunding.

fact: it is predicted that due to a rapidly aging population we must increase spending by 4% per year for the next 20 years just to stand still. Take into account improvements in medicine and we need to spend even more. Just to stand still. Yet government spending doesn't come close to this i.e. spending has and continues to be cut year by year when these alarming statistics are factored in.

To improve waiting times spend more! Seeeemple no?

Of course the Tories have been saying less tax is good for decades and now everyone believes we can have more by spending less....ermmmm nah!

As a % of GDP we spend less than the US, France, Germany, Japan and Canada on healthcare.

The not much wrong with the NHS given the levels of funding. Not perfect by any means. Underfunding is far and away the biggest problem.

So....who's prepared to pay more tax to find it....? Anyone?

Hold on Germany don't have a health service they pay insurance! "

Ermmm....so doctors & nurses work for nothing...?

As I say, as a % of GDP we spend less than the US, France, Germany, Japan and Canada on healthcare.

Whether its funded by insurance, taxation, national insurance doesn't really matter. It's how much money that finds its way into the healthcare system that matters (though you might argue, an insurance based system like the US leaves a lot of room for inflated charges and profit taking from private companies).

Indeed while it's very difficult to directly calculate & compare it's reckoned the average spend per person on healthcare in the US is almost double that of the UK....& life expectancy is lower in the US (though other factors obviously influence this ....er guns & things).

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