FabSwingers.com forum: Could you kill...

By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Other thread prompted me to think...

In what circumstances... god forbid you had to... could you.

Do you consider the decisions that professionals have to make before pulling a trigger in armed combat, armed siege or any other situation that someone makes a split second decision... do you consider the post traumatic shock that many suffer from for years after .... before we announce we will kill for this and that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you mean again ?

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I don't think I could.... god forbid I am ever faced with that decision...

but on a nice Monday evening, I can not imagine the god awful decison I would have to make x

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"you mean again ?

for the first time...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Iv just killed a spider bloody big bugger to it nearly tuck me out but my S A S training kicked in and a rolled up news paper sorted him out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the only way to prolong my own life or that of my kith and kin was to kill - then yes, I would, without hesitating. The courts work can out the legals of it all.

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Iv just killed a spider bloody big bugger to it nearly tuck me out but my S A S training kicked in and a rolled up news paper sorted him out

snap a picture of it and post it...

otherwise... big story teller

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I would hate to ever be in a situation where I possibly could

Im not trained to kill

Im trained to save lives

However im a mother and I will protect the ones I love,I don't ever want to know just how far I would go to protect them

Its a very difficult question

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"If the only way to prolong my own life or that of my kith and kin was to kill - then yes, I would, without hesitating. The courts work can out the legals of it all."

so if your life was in danger of ending or that or your family... it's them or you... I get that

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

of*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the only way to prolong my own life or that of my kith and kin was to kill - then yes, I would, without hesitating. The courts work can out the legals of it all.

so if your life was in danger of ending or that or your family... it's them or you... I get that"

Basically, yup. I don't condone murder but the murder I least condone is my own!

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By *iew OP Man
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over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I so feel for the people who do actually have to make the decision and live with it after...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldnt kill an animal. If someone killed a member of my family, and i had a gun, then i think i would want to kill them too.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

Ok this may sound a little jumbled but bear with me. Yes I would protect my children and loved ones from harm and do anything I could. However in reality, could I over step that mark and take anothers life... Im not sure, if it was a life and death situation then I hope I could.

Emotions can get in the way of rational thinking. I know that when I feel passionate about things I tend to get a little blinkered , and some subjects its hard to have a rational _iew on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Iv just killed a spider bloody big bugger to it nearly tuck me out but my S A S training kicked in and a rolled up news paper sorted him out

snap a picture of it and post it...

otherwise... big story teller

lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The current programme on BBC4 on officer training at Sandhurst..dealt sensitively with this question last week..

I know I could..under extreme duress..thats not from a position arising from braggido..

I couldn`t kill on command..or blindly...but from an inner conviction or reaction..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the only way to prolong my own life or that of my kith and kin was to kill - then yes, I would, without hesitating. The courts work can out the legals of it all."

+1 (nearly)..lets say a burglar was in my house and during a struggle i killed him. I'd honestly think twice about calling the police. no one can place him at my place. Maybe,just maybe he'd end up in Chislehurst Woods

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Like many others on here, I say I would. But really? I am not sure. It is a big thing to take another persons life.

That is not to say that I wouldn't condone life taking in some form. Hypocritical? Yes! But there are some things that through personal experience, I find just too much to bear!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I so feel for the people who do actually have to make the decision and live with it after..."

Yes i do too, although it doesnt bother most people.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"If the only way to prolong my own life or that of my kith and kin was to kill - then yes, I would, without hesitating. The courts work can out the legals of it all.

so if your life was in danger of ending or that or your family... it's them or you... I get that

Basically, yup. I don't condone murder but the murder I least condone is my own!

Better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In hot blood to save myself yes, probably, but unlikely.

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Like many others on here, I say I would. But really? I am not sure. It is a big thing to take another persons life.

That is not to say that I wouldn't condone life taking in some form. Hypocritical? Yes! But there are some things that through personal experience, I find just too much to bear!

I totally get and respect that.... I respect so much the armed services, like we all do... and the tough choices/decisions these brave people make... and I just can't fathom how they must feel before and most certainly AFTER.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes

harm my children then yes without a shadow of a doubt

if there was a death penalty in this country would it deter me, NO

i know there will be many that will argue my judgement is flawed but i care not its fact harm them i will gladly kill you

actually funnily enough i was chatting with a friend recently about our son going to afghanistan and i said quickest way to end it all would be to send all the mums out there with them armed we would get the fuckers before they got to our boys

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Just to throw a spanner in the works, should it ever be acceptable to kill Afghan and Pakistani children?

Or is that just acceptable collateral?

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Just to throw a spanner in the works, should it ever be acceptable to kill Afghan and Pakistani children?

Or is that just acceptable collateral? "

I agree, it's not..

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

collateral damage*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Other thread prompted me to think...

In what circumstances... god forbid you had to... could you.

Its not a question you truly know the answer to until you are in a situation when you have to. Most people say they would, in reality most wouldn’t and that is a good thing. It is also the reason why the armed forces train people like they do to obey commands first and think about what they are doing later. After all once you have taken another humans life you cannot give it back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yes

harm my children then yes without a shadow of a doubt

if there was a death penalty in this country would it deter me, NO

i know there will be many that will argue my judgement is flawed but i care not its fact harm them i will gladly kill you

I feel exactly the same.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"Like many others on here, I say I would. But really? I am not sure. It is a big thing to take another persons life.

That is not to say that I wouldn't condone life taking in some form. Hypocritical? Yes! But there are some things that through personal experience, I find just too much to bear!

Although he will not speak of it much, my father killed quite a few people during the Second World War and was badly injured himself on a mission. He has never forgiven himself for what he has done, although most will tell him it was a necessary evil.

I do wonder though, present military excepted, what would have happened if todays attitude had been around then?

My father has been a Salvation Army Officer for years and it is his way of giving back some of what he took. I am immensly proud of my dad and the way he suspended his beliefs because he knew it was of paramount importance.

Not a position I want to be in.

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By *iew OP Man
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Other thread prompted me to think...

In what circumstances... god forbid you had to... could you.

thanks Don

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd hate to think I would be responsible for taking a life...

I would never ever ever ever ever like to be in a situation where I feel the need to kill someone.... there is a 'but'.... if they were a true threat (life taking) to someone I love then I'll wash their blood off my hands and let the police know what I have done... threat dead... loved one alive... no pride, no regret.

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

"Other thread prompted me to think...

In what circumstances... god forbid you had to... could you.

Good point well made.

From the other side, I'm always horrified by the way people don't realize how easy it is to kill. A lucky punch in a d*unken rage, the kick that bounces a head off a kerb stone, the text message that takes your eyes off the road...

I don't enjoy the way people think being angry is legitimate, and that violence is excusable as a consequence of that anger. The thing we ask of our soldiers, that they be good at violence but not angry, is very very hard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If me or one of my family members were attacked I would attack back untill they stopped attacking us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's a difference in your thinking if your job means you may take the life of another. If someone tried to kill me or mine the natural reaction is self preservation.

I watched a couple of programmes last week, one a child was kidnapped and sodomised, the other lost his wife and kids in a plane crash. Both fathers killed the men they held responsible.

I can't possibly imagine their pain. Could I do what they did? I pray I'm never tested in such a manner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The programme last week featuring the recruit at Sandhurst, resigning his commision, thru a matter of conscience was enlightening to this thread..

The morality and consequences of killing were fully explored...ruthlessly exposing the doubts and fears of the trainees..

We do have a brilliantly trained army...

Tho the aftercare of ordinary grunts is well known to be poorly lacking...

A campaign headed by Tim Collins illuminates the tragedy of aftercare..

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"The programme last week featuring the recruit at Sandhurst, resigning his commision, thru a matter of conscience was enlightening to this thread..

The morality and consequences of killing were fully explored...ruthlessly exposing the doubts and fears of the trainees..

We do have a brilliantly trained army...

Tho the aftercare of ordinary grunts is well known to be poorly lacking...

A campaign headed by Tim Collins illuminates the tragedy of aftercare.."

I wish id seen that

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

At times like this i'm reminded of an aspect of 9/11.

A father described the loss of his son who was on the Boston to LA flight described how his son left Boston each week to work in LA for .....

Raytheon, who amongst other things build weapons systems.

So it's OK to kill but not be killed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The programme last week featuring the recruit at Sandhurst, resigning his commision, thru a matter of conscience was enlightening to this thread..

The morality and consequences of killing were fully explored...ruthlessly exposing the doubts and fears of the trainees..

We do have a brilliantly trained army...

Tho the aftercare of ordinary grunts is well known to be poorly lacking...

A campaign headed by Tim Collins illuminates the tragedy of aftercare..

I wish id seen that"

It was and is a great docu series...a far cry from the sort of reality progs of recent times...really thoughtful..the lad in question was wonderful, with his bravery and sensitivity..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The current programme on BBC4 on officer training at Sandhurst..dealt sensitively with this question last week..

I know I could..under extreme duress..thats not from a position arising from braggido..

I couldn`t kill on command..or blindly...but from an inner conviction or reaction.."

i agree they dealt with it really well but i struggled to understand why the guy concerned had never considered the fact before

we had long discussions with our son on his feelings about the fact that one day he may very well have to shoulder the responsibility of having killed at some point during his army career and he is going into it with his eyes as wide open as it is possible to be at this stage and once they have been opened fully we will be there to help him in whatever way we possibly can should the day come it is needed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The current programme on BBC4 on officer training at Sandhurst..dealt sensitively with this question last week..

I know I could..under extreme duress..thats not from a position arising from braggido..

I couldn`t kill on command..or blindly...but from an inner conviction or reaction..

i agree they dealt with it really well but i struggled to understand why the guy concerned had never considered the fact before

Its a thought thats natural I guess..

To be fair...that training is designed to really question yer ethics...I admired his committement to fully consider it...he was a deep thinking type of lad, a fact reconised by the General with his passing remarks..

I guess he thought he could...but was honest and knew the frontline was the wrong time to be honest...I really admired him...

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The current programme on BBC4 on officer training at Sandhurst..dealt sensitively with this question last week..

I know I could..under extreme duress..thats not from a position arising from braggido..

I couldn`t kill on command..or blindly...but from an inner conviction or reaction..

i agree they dealt with it really well but i struggled to understand why the guy concerned had never considered the fact before

Its a thought thats natural I guess..

I guess he thought he could...but was honest and knew the frontline was the wrong time to be honest...I really admired him..."

Ditto, that took some real courage to make that decision and respect to the guy for doing so.

A good insight into the academy.

In relation to the OP, in the past yes as that was the career i took. As to now, would depend on the circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I've just found my own answer.

Our sole remaining Zebra Danyo was harrassing our five Mollies to the point that they were becoming stressed and as we'd rasied them from babies that was it - he had to go, so now he's cooling off in a bucket of ice, which is much more humane than Siren's method of despatching fish - she wraps them in a tea towel and bludgeons them to death with a brick. I don't fookin argue with her I can tell you, and I sleep with one eye open!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Other thread prompted me to think...

In what circumstances... god forbid you had to... could you.

If it was to protect and save a close loved one then yes.

As a mother i would do it instinctively , without thought.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

It is a very hard thing for me to say , as a pacifist and a Christian i abhore killing and violence. i believe in forgivness and turning the other cheek.

However my beliefs have never been challenged, were my kids in danger i dont know what lengths i wud go to in order to protect them.

i do hope that were something to happen to them my faith wud mean i coped and moved on, rather than increasing the hate and violence, as i honestly believe violence begats violence.

i have noticed that those parents who have lost children in tragic circumstances who are able to reach a point of forgiveness seem to be in a better place than those who dwell in the darkness.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If anyone were trying to hurt me or mine to the point of 'kill or be killed' then i would yes without a doubt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aye in the right curcumstances.

Me or them or mine and them. Its always gonna be them, think id find in those extreme curcumstances the choice quite simple really.

Does that make me bad?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Aye in the right curcumstances.

Me or them or mine and them. Its always gonna be them, think id find in those extreme curcumstances the choice quite simple really.

Does that make me bad?"

Nope, it makes you imperfect, and human.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It is so very easy for people that heven't been in the position of killing another to say they could kill without compunction....throw away comments really.

I would say....come back when you have killed another then tell us how easy it was, until then it's nothing more than words....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

No, just human

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would say....come back when you have killed another then tell us how easy it was, until then it's nothing more than words...."

Well, the fooker has stopped swimming. It's just floating there in it's ice tomb.

The hardest part was catching the bleeder in me net, it knew I was gunning for it!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"It is so very easy for people that heven't been in the position of killing another to say they could kill without compunction....throw away comments really.

I would say....come back when you have killed another then tell us how easy it was, until then it's nothing more than words...."

My granddad, who was with the Chindits taught me something very similar, he was a peace campaigner after the war,and is the reason i am.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never been in the forces or anything, just is my opinion on the idea of being able to, having to, and indeed would i?

We've all sat watching a film with the baddy still trying to commit evil and you've probably said of the "good" guy or woman in film pointing the gun, "shoot, shoot ffs shoot them",that situation i get.

But if for example you were in a world war 2 situation, on a field aiming a gun at someone who has probably been put to war because they were enlisted, aiming at them to kill them, nope, could'nt do it!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is so very easy for people that heven't been in the position of killing another to say they could kill without compunction....throw away comments really.

I would say....come back when you have killed another then tell us how easy it was, until then it's nothing more than words...."

Well while its purely hypothetical id say through the ages people have proven that humans have a strong protect instinct. Look at the guy recently that killed the burglar.

When his back was to the wall he did what was required! And good on him. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My son was beaten with an iron bar to the head when he was 17 and left for dead.

It was the worst night of my life.

Even today i would still do damage to whoever did it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My son was beaten with an iron bar to the head when he was 17 and left for dead.

It was the worst night of my life.

Even today i would still do damage to whoever did it.

Aint surprised by that!! Thats a nightmare.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My son was beaten with an iron bar to the head when he was 17 and left for dead.

It was the worst night of my life.

Even today i would still do damage to whoever did it.

I would be the same hun. Would not rest until i get them punished to the greatest of my ability.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it is a choice between killing someone or be killed by that person, then yes, I can imagine myself doing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fight or flight..

Primordial instincts..old as man..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

......for a curry right now sure!!!

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By *amschwingerzCouple
over a year ago

West

Maybe...yes, but never out of vengeance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I could- and have nearly done so- I was dragged, screaming & kicking, off a man who hit my sister.... I was later told, as I have little memory of it, that I'd have killed him had it not been for my friends........thank goodness they were there

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

In certain situations, I am pretty sure I could.... I make this assumption based on how I have instinctively reacted in a couple of situations where I genuinely believed someone else was about to become a serious threat.

One of these times I even had time to think it out, that injuring them wasn't an option and where to aim for.

I of course have no idea how I would have felt after the event, after the adrenaline wears off.

Having said that I am pretty sure I couldn't just walk up to someone and stick a knife into them.... that's pretty personal shit.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Yes, I could- and have nearly done so- I was dragged, screaming & kicking, off a man who hit my sister.... I was later told, as I have little memory of it, that I'd have killed him had it not been for my friends........thank goodness they were there"

Now scrapping is a different matter lol

Though my scrapping days are a distant memory now, your story does remind me of a time myself and a friend walked into a club and one guy out of a group of arguing guys seemed to mistake me for someone else and slapped me around the face whilst shouting something at me as if I knew him.

I turned to my friend and asked "did he just slap me?"... "yeah he did".

Unfortunalty for him (and more so his ego) I was playing contact sports at international level back in them days and was somewhat 'fit'.

I beat the crap out of him and as his mates and a doorman tried to get me off of him... in all the red mist... I accidently decked the doorman too. Bad move on my part.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Now scrapping is a different matter lol

I turned to my friend and asked "did he just slap me?"... "yeah he did".

Unfortunalty for him (and more so his ego) I was playing contact sports at international level back in them days and was somewhat 'fit'.

I beat the crap out of him and as his mates and a doorman tried to get me off of him... in all the red mist... I accidently decked the doorman too. Bad move on my part."

"Tonight Matthew, I'm gonna be ...Cheryl Cole"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

i think you are correct _iew the action of killing is easy its the after affects that are the most difficult.

one of my old freinds is so wracked with guilt he has made lots of suicide attempts and self harming is a day to day thing more help is required for these people and i hope it comes soon

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've been in a few situations where decisions had to be made without having time or options to contemplate the outcome, they just happened and had to be dealt with.

Don't say you would or wouldn't unless you are in those situations. A hard decision can be made a very easy one when faced with the reality of survival and self preservation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes without a shadow of a doubt i could and would xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive read all the posts and its quite intresting reading on the thoughts others have.

here's my 2pence worth

I am ex military and i have been too war i wasnt at the front line but none the less i was actively engaged.

The weapons i loaded were and are pure and simple for killing, did i thinkat the time about this no it was a job to me i was serving my country. The way i _iew war and killing is look through the man focus on what he is carrying shoot the gun not the man , when a pilot engages another aircraft hes not shooting the pilot hes shooting the machine the same goes for the navy when they sink ships. Ask a sailor about how he feels when another sailor enemy or not is drowned im quite sure he would say he was sad. Think of the nuke submarines if god forbid they have a missle launch they know that a retalitory strike will more than likely kill their loved ones but thye will do what is required regardless.

Is killing easy no is it necessary in some cases yes. Standing orders are in place for our troops in afghanistan to only open fire when they have visual sighting and confirmation of enemy contact which is in place too limit civilian casualties.

Im sorry if ive gone off on a tangent it must be my age. If i was pushed to say could i or would i kill then provided the justification was there i would not hesitate wether that makes me a bad person only time will tell.

as for the govermnent and the mod i think as an ex serviceman that the treatment of our wounded and those suffering from post traumatic stress is disgusting they served with pride and are treated like second class citizens.

I would openly say that anyone who is thinking of joining should seriously consider wether they could or could not shoot at another human if there is any doubt dont join. If im really blunt a moments hesitation could cost not only their life but more besides.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two answers for me no and yes

The no is i find it difficult to consider killing anything even the provibiale fly

This is based on the fact that that fly is innocent and although bloody annoying when he wont leave you alone does really not deserve to die

The yes for me on the other hand is based on the fact that if someone was attacking to the point of serious damage or death me or mine then yes i would have absolutely NO hesitation about killing them by ANY possible means

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

To save me or mine, yes.

Whether I could live with myself after is another matter

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By *urreyfun2008Man
over a year ago

East Grinstead

Could I kill, yes, but as a form of self defence or protection of others, not for revenge/argument motives.

Only did TA, but even then used to be on guard with live rounds at various places in the UK, and the lecture before of what can/cannot do was sobering. Unit did have a reputation of people volunteering for active duty, so reality from experience was often about.

The problem in the military circle is that the intensity of operations is unlike anything seen for years, and encompasses many more than front line units. What may not help is the small numbers of service personel, i.e. easy for them to be invisible in society and uncared for. Hopefully some regiments have welfare arms that go beyond what the paperwork says they need to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe we are all prepared to kill and we do….!.although we may not be the one pulling a trigger or dealing out direct means of someone’s early demise…

But every single day ,, every one of us, plays a part in the untimely death of other human beings….!. Every single day!!!

Because every day someone dies because of the disproportionate values placed on some human lives against the greed of other humans who lives are detached from the hard ship and suffering caused to provide our privileged lifestyles !!

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By *econdhand RoseWoman
over a year ago

Nr Dumfries

Would I join the armed forces and kill in combat - no, that's not for me.

Could I kill if truly believed my loved ones were threatened - absolutely, no doubt and without question!!

I do have a fairly sensible head though and it would have to be at that last gut instinct, nothing left to do point I believe.

That I have the capability and strength of conviction to do I have no doubt at all.

Vixen

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

There is a world of a difference between murder and, what the American call, justifable homicide.

Too often these days there are stories of young lads being knifed to death for no sensible reason other than they were in the wrong gang/street/neighbouhood. These are feral youths who will never play a part in a civilised society.

Like a previous poster my Father was a D-Day veteren when he landed in Normandy aged 18. What he saw and had to do stayed with him but he had no choice and he, and all other boys, helped make the world a better place.

We all have the capacity to kill but we are able to determine when it is right to do so. We have armed Police officers patrolling our airports who would kill if a threat was present. Any parent on here would kill to protect their children but we would not randomly murder a complete stranger just because he was wearing a rival's football top.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

cant say until im put in that situation

hope to never find out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The ability to kill is in all, the desire or lack of empathy it requires thankfully in far less, i would like to say no, but i believe there is a situation that could trigger that response in everyone, i hope to never be in or witness someone in that place.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple
over a year ago

North Cornwall

Kill everytime I head out in my car. Damn insects make such a mess on my car grrrr

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

It's not the idea of possible feeling of guilt that stops me killing people it's the consequences of doing so. (at least so far)

I balance most actions with consequence, so feel yes if I had too kill a burgler or sombody threatening my wife or kids life, I could do so with a clear consience, accepting any charges that may result from doing so..

I woud also have far more trouble shooting a dog than a human, if given the choice, as the human likely deserves it and would at least understand the reason it's being shot.

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