FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to The Lounge

so..... anyone read the guardian article today?

Jump to newest
 

By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

interesting read.....

racism in the bedroom......

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yup

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I did, I can't say I disagreed with any of it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *olly OhWoman
over a year ago

Aberystwyth

Quote:

"This is what really unsettles me about the Black Man’s Fan Club. Not just the fact that black men’s self-esteem could be so low that this [hypersexual black myth] would be a welcome boost, but the fact that everyone in Arousals is, one way or another, unquestioningly complicit in a set of beliefs that have ancient and horrible roots."

The author seems to be making an awful lot of assumptions here

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i just think it was an interesting discussion to have because i have kinda been internalising it all week.....

because i was in the situation where i have been conflicted about what to do with my night tonight....

in the end i have decided to go not because of the event being held there... but because i don't see why i should let others dictate my life.....

so i think it will end up being an interesting night for me, because people may assume one thing but i wonder if in a sense i am going to have to explain my conflict...lol

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *olly OhWoman
over a year ago

Aberystwyth

It is an arena overflowing with internal conflict. But to proclaim on behalf of other's self esteem, socio-political understanding, lifestyle... is infuriating, snobbish and forwards no debate

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Bumping this up for anyone who didn’t see the article

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ilk_TreMan
over a year ago

Wherever the party is!

This was pointed out to me by my vanilla friends and we are discussing as I type this...

My initial thoughts? Interesting article. I'd say 50% accurate but then again, this style of journalism is used to sell papers these days I suppose...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *otwife90Couple
over a year ago

catterick

Wouldn't waste my time reading the Guardian tbh

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ooo interesting read i do go to bmfc nights i have never found it to be the way it has been described in the article i did have a conversation with a guy about the music because it's usually rnb in style therefore making an assumption that all black men like this. I would also point out that it says that the women are white and the black men are fetished but in my experience the men steer towards white women. I've also never seen any d*unk men in the way she describes actually its a very social night. I can see what she's trying to say but i think she should have visited more clubs before making assumptions on one night

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amdenfunMan
over a year ago

London

Interesting thread. Just commenting so I can find again. (May comment at more civilised hour - by the way, I also posted on this, and was directed here.)

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes it made me quite uncomfortable, as a white middle-class woman who attends BMFC events and has a very different experience and outlook to the writer. I don't like the way many types are fetishised, be they black men/women, BBWs etc but difficult to stop this

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everybody loves a bit of proactive racism.

Black guys have big dicks and all dance like Micheal Jackson.

Where as white guys are good at running countries.... That's why we swapped Obama for trump.

Wait no, I saw Obama dance, he was rubbish

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rbane PlayerMan
over a year ago

London


"interesting read.....

racism in the bedroom......

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom"

I didn't find it an interesting read as the writer clearly went to the event with a pre-formed view and stuck to it. There was little or nothing balanced about the article.

I accept that she was making a point about the long negative history of racial sexual stereotyping but she seemed not to understand that people at times just want to fuck and their points of desire, fantasy play to that.

Hence, I don't have an issue with choice based on racial preference etc or those who advertise themselves using words like "bbc" etc.

Oh and her article then went on to the difficulties some black women have in the dating world. While I accept the link it may have been better as two separate pieces.

All in all, not a helpful work. Prefer actual swingers to write about swingers-not outsiders or armchair wannabes!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ilk_TreMan
over a year ago

Wherever the party is!


"interesting read.....

racism in the bedroom......

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jan/13/black-woman-always-fetishised-racism-in-bedroom

I didn't find it an interesting read as the writer clearly went to the event with a pre-formed view and stuck to it. There was little or nothing balanced about the article.

I accept that she was making a point about the long negative history of racial sexual stereotyping but she seemed not to understand that people at times just want to fuck and their points of desire, fantasy play to that.

Hence, I don't have an issue with choice based on racial preference etc or those who advertise themselves using words like "bbc" etc.

Oh and her article then went on to the difficulties some black women have in the dating world. While I accept the link it may have been better as two separate pieces.

All in all, not a helpful work. Prefer actual swingers to write about swingers-not outsiders or armchair wannabes! "

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *MFC PartiesWoman
over a year ago

Here, There & Everywhere

Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amdenfunMan
over a year ago

London


"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973 "

Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better.

The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling.

You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then?

It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue.

And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response?

One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.)

Ok, got to go.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oris and doris wolvesCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Does anyone still read that rubbish paper? ??

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One things for sure.... Nobody would get away with organising a WMFC

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Guardian. Meh.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think it is an interesting article in that it was not the writers opinion that caught my eye... it was the comment of the black swinging couple she talked to, and how they were approached by white couples that determined if it was an immediate no.....

the difference between being seen for them and being seen as a fetish

and as much as BMFC statement is one that i for the most part accept and agree, I don't think they do help themselves at the best of times because even in there own advertising (and it was mentioned in the article) they talk about the "extras" black men bring.......

which "extras" would that be?

the reason i was so conflicted saturday is that BMFC came to club F... I was adament about not going because i had done black/white parties in the past when i was not so in the scene and not as wise in my years (people may say i have finally turned 12 in man years now) saw things i didn't like, felt like a huge fetish and swore never to do it again...

so it was a case of my favourite night at a club where i feel my most comfortable against going to an event where i would feel my least

and i went, and i gave it a go and mixed with some lovely people, but the feeling of feeling like a fetish never went away.........

so.... older and bolder, would i do that again, never say never, but the answer is more likely to be no, rather than yes.....

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i think it is an interesting article in that it was not the writers opinion that caught my eye... it was the comment of the black swinging couple she talked to, and how they were approached by white couples that determined if it was an immediate no.....

the difference between being seen for them and being seen as a fetish

and as much as BMFC statement is one that i for the most part accept and agree, I don't think they do help themselves at the best of times because even in there own advertising (and it was mentioned in the article) they talk about the "extras" black men bring.......

which "extras" would that be?

the reason i was so conflicted saturday is that BMFC came to club F... I was adament about not going because i had done black/white parties in the past when i was not so in the scene and not as wise in my years (people may say i have finally turned 12 in man years now) saw things i didn't like, felt like a huge fetish and swore never to do it again...

so it was a case of my favourite night at a club where i feel my most comfortable against going to an event where i would feel my least

and i went, and i gave it a go and mixed with some lovely people, but the feeling of feeling like a fetish never went away.........

so.... older and bolder, would i do that again, never say never, but the answer is more likely to be no, rather than yes....."

I agree with the bit where you mentioned the ad. Why put the bit about extra in there? It's almost like using it when it suits then complaining after.

As for how you feel, your own experience has maybe put doubts in your head which could take time to go away. Just be yourself, you'll probably get to see for yourself those who make it a fetish and you can steer clear.

P

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ob198XaMan
over a year ago

teleford

I can't be reading any paper that gives George Montibot a platform

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *abio OP   Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

I agree with the bit where you mentioned the ad. Why put the bit about extra in there? It's almost like using it when it suits then complaining after.

As for how you feel, your own experience has maybe put doubts in your head which could take time to go away. Just be yourself, you'll probably get to see for yourself those who make it a fetish and you can steer clear.

P "

i think i had a conflicted look on my face, and people did comment that i wasn't myself and if everything was ok (bless them... the staff and the people who go are some of the best people) and i did my best to explain where my head was at.... but in the end i did end up leaving early... and i don't blame the club or BMFC in the slightest.......

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding.

I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973

Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better.

The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling.

You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then?

It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue.

And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response?

One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.)

Ok, got to go."

Well put !

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts."

Quote of the day !

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ilk_TreMan
over a year ago

Wherever the party is!


"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding.

I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts."

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amdenfunMan
over a year ago

London


"Just to let you all know that we have just posted our statement in relation to the article https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/clubs/718973

Thanks for signposting this. However, I have to say, I don't think it could have been better.

The thing with most of the responses against the article, is that they simply state, they disagree with her and it's not racism. It's interesting that the ever insightful Fabio found it both interesting and troubling.

You say that Black Man's Fan Club has nothing to do with skin colour? To what does the black refer then?

It wasn't brilliant article. I didn't read the whole thing. And it was obvious she was against swinging from the start. But it explored an interesting issue.

And are you only going to respond within the community? How about finding a journalist who is well disposed to the matter and asking for a good response?

One was of addressing it, I think, would be to say that even if these desires come out of bad racism, that doesn't mean they should be repressed. Esther Perel writes about this in relation to powerful women being submissive in the bedroom. (Maybe she even comments on this very theme - I can't remember.)

Ok, got to go.

Well put !"

Why thank you.

(Just in case my typos weren't obvious - I do think it could have been better.)

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iSexGeordieMan
over a year ago

North Shields

Anyone, particularly white cis folk, who fetishises someone because of the colour of their skin or ethnic/cultural/religious background needs to really take a long look at themselves.

There are hugely racialised issues in terms of sex, dating and having fun. For example the man who likes to let his wife get fucked by a black man and gets off on the idea... it's all grounded in racial stereotypes.

There's some excellent analysis on this somewhere... I'll go try to find a link and post it here.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *lkDomWhtSubBiCpleCouple
over a year ago

Somewhere / Everywhere /Kinksville


"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding.

I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts."

Agreed, but the amount of threads where lots of other black guys are happy to be seen as the above is surprising. For us it’s a useful filter.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rbane PlayerMan
over a year ago

London


"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside."

I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting.

I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want.

By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside.

I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting.

I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want.

By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here. "

I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *amdenfunMan
over a year ago

London


"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside.

I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting.

I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want.

By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here.

I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here. "

Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men.

I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *aughtycouple1008Couple
over a year ago

west london

Holy moly....its as easy as understanding ABC....firstly its not Racist.....it would be if they refused entry to non blacks. And if this is racist then where does the buck stop. Its just a place where people who like black guys know they will find one for there pleasure. Hos the *uck can a story like this be published...that journalist should work for the sun.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *aughtycouple1008Couple
over a year ago

west london


"Holy moly....its as easy as understanding ABC....firstly its not Racist.....it would be if they refused entry to non blacks. And if this is racist then where does the buck stop. Its just a place where people who like black guys know they will find one for there pleasure. Hos the *uck can a story like this be published...that journalist should work for the sun."

Hos should be how

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All a load of rubbish!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/01/18 10:48:54]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Quote:

"This is what really unsettles me about the Black Man’s Fan Club. Not just the fact that black men’s self-esteem could be so low that this [hypersexual black myth] would be a welcome boost, but the fact that everyone in Arousals is, one way or another, unquestioningly complicit in a set of beliefs that have ancient and horrible roots."

The author seems to be making an awful lot of assumptions here"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding.

I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts."
.

Very well said, it's human nature to grab onto positive stereotypes, worse still we have a habit of living up to the negative ones as well.

I'm not sure how you instill higher expectations in people but by golly the world needs it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *rbane PlayerMan
over a year ago

London


"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside.

I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting.

I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want.

By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here.

I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here.

Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men.

I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal. "

I have read a number of his books and he is a complicated writer, to say the least. I don't remember him as being controversial for its own sake, but there, from my memory, is a sense of him using his talent to paint a far-out story to make his point. In short, Michel Houellebecq is worth reading, though I don't agree with much of his views (if they are his view), but I love his courage in writing them.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What made me laugh most was I quote'' And thirdly, they are just more dominant. You know, a lot of these women are not satisfied by their husbands, who want them to do all the work. They want to feel a strong man inside them, dominating them. They want an alpha male. '' what a load of bull shit! Not many black men in alpha male jobs!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"I've not read the article, but I have always felt uncomfortable with being someone's fantasy just because of the colour of my skin, I'm a person, and there are so many more exciting things about me than what you see on the surface, I don't want to be singled out and have people say things to me that are meant as complimentary, but just show the lack of understanding.

I'm a man, a person, not a black bull, not a BBC, a man, and I think I'm owed the courtesy of being thought of as such, long gone are the days when I thought as women as "pussy" or "a bit of skirt" I grew up and realised that it's bloody insulting to par another person down to body parts.

"

There are, if you look, Female profiles on here that refer to men in general as "cock". I feel the same about those.

If they just want a cock, synthetic ones are available.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By *amdenfunMan
over a year ago

London


"I saw an excellent play at the Royal Court theatre a few years ago called "Sugar Mummies," which raised similar issues - about the white women who go to the Caribbean specifically for sex with black men, exploring the underlying racist attitudes etc. Gave me pause, as I have been to the Caribbean several times, not specifically for sex with local men, but it certainly happened...it was definitely thought-provoking, as was the Guardian article. Agree with the points made about fetishism. I find black guys attractive but like white guys too and would shy away from fetishising anyone as I dislike being treated that way myself, e.g. being classed as a MILF, cougar or BBW; just something to tick off someone's bucket list. Soulless and dehumanising. That said I love the BMFC events and will continue to support them, always well-run with a great mix of people. Seems strange to me that the author would choose to include this in her article, as my experience of these nights has been overwhelmingly positive, inclusive and fun with no sinister underside.

I have the play at home and have read it. Didn't enjoy the style of it and hope you found it to be a good play. Yet the topic was interesting.

I think sex, sexuality and race is a wide area to discuss. But it helps to be secure in your cultural identity so if you want to, you can have a whole different sexual personality where you can explore whatever you want.

By the way, thanks everyone for the pleasant and thoughtful tone of the talk so far, it makes a difference to the usual heat around race on here.

I found the play interesting because of the many recognisable scenarios which brought to light an aspect of Caribbean tourism to a wider audience. It was very well directed/acted. Agree it's good to have a civilised discussion on here.

Haven't say I've either read or seen that play. But what did people think if Michel Houellebecq's Platform? About a guy getting into the business of sex tourism, first focusing on men, then more on women wanting black men.

I didn't like it at all, but many people seem to. If I recall, from about eight years ago, he made getting into the business seem too easy, for a start. And I didn't quite believe his portrayal of the women flocking to his holidays. Maybe also I wasn't comfortable with his portrayal of black guys exactly the way this Guardian article is critical of. But now, being just slightly more acquainted with this scene, maybe I'd read it differently. But I doubt it - I just think it wasn't a good portrayal.

I have read a number of his books and he is a complicated writer, to say the least. I don't remember him as being controversial for its own sake, but there, from my memory, is a sense of him using his talent to paint a far-out story to make his point. In short, Michel Houellebecq is worth reading, though I don't agree with much of his views (if they are his view), but I love his courage in writing them."

Thanks for your thought. You may be right; perhaps I'll read some more.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top