FabSwingers.com forum: Reasonable self-defence or proceed to trial?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I am not sure if people have followed this news story or not but a businessman in Bramhall ended up stabbing an intruder with the intruders knife and 59yr old man fatally stabbed an intruder at his home in Salford. And a 72 florist, stabbed a burglar at his shop in Old Trafford.

Both men were arrested on suspicion of murder, but were later released without charge when the Crown Prosecution Service ruled they acted in reasonable self-defence.

What i am wondering is the _iews of people in general. Firstly if the people defending thir property should be charged if the intrude is injured and secondly is there a level when someone has gone too far.

Also the family of the guy who died have laid floral tributes outside the house of the people the dead intruder broke into. I am wondering if this acceptable to put flowers down seeing as it could be seen as ‘we know where you live’ intimidation but also could be seen as compassion for the family who lost a member. What are your _iews on this?

There is a link to the bbc news report if you want more info.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14968236

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I am not sure if people have followed this news story or not but a businessman in Bramhall ended up stabbing an intruder with the intruders knife and 59yr old man fatally stabbed an intruder at his home in Salford. And a 72 florist, stabbed a burglar at his shop in Old Trafford.

Both men were arrested on suspicion of murder, but were later released without charge when the Crown Prosecution Service ruled they acted in reasonable self-defence.

There is a link to the bbc news report if you want more info.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14968236

if some one breaks into a house and get hurt by the owner defending their property and family i have no sympathy towards them whatsoever, as for the flowers i'm not too sure about that, no matter what the circumstances some one has just lost a son/husband/brother/father, they will be grieving for their loss

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

This dilemma will always be fraught.

I do not have sympathy with intruders who get injured.

HOWEVER - I do think each case should be judged on it's own merits. After all if it becomes law that you can stab, shoot , garrotte anyone who comes into your home uninvited - what's to stop someone inviting you in under false pretences; killing you and then saying you had broken in ?

The flowers are a thoughtless act by antagonistic idiots.

If they want to lay flowers lay them at the home of the deceased.

Would you have sympathy if a rape took place and the rapist was stabbed and his family came to lay flowers at the scene of the rape - which may be a young persons bedroom ?

I don't think so.

People scream 'my rights' too quickly and too loudly for my liking. They don't consider the rights of others.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

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By *iz78Woman
over a year ago

wirral

[Removed by poster at 19/09/11 20:14:35]

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By *iz78Woman
over a year ago

wirral

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

my feelings exactly x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

my feelings exactly x"

100% agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

+ 1....plus you could shove your floral tributes up your arse, I wouldnt want them littering the outside of my house.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were taught that if someone breaks into your house it is self defence if you grab the nearest weapon but if you choose to shoot an intruder and in doing so you have to get the key out of a drawer, for example to access the bullets and your gun, and then load it, it is not self defence. Personally I would protect my family any way I could.

As to laying flowers, difficult that one

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By *lutandhubbyCouple
over a year ago

west midlands

the way i look at it is, if they didnt burgle his house, they wouldnt be dead! i would do the same thing if someone burgled my home!.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

+ 1....plus you could shove your floral tributes up your arse, I wouldnt want them littering the outside of my house."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

Isnt that going to make the burglers come more heavily armed then and put your family at greater risk?

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By *lutandhubbyCouple
over a year ago

west midlands

other people should look on the flowers as a warning, BREAK INTO MY HOME, YOU WILL DIE!!!!!!

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

No sympathy for the intruder. Scant sympathy for the bereaved, after all they would likely have known their relative was a scumbag! If they didn't, then perhaps a little more sympathy. BUT.. I don't believe that the family wouldn't know or at least have some suspicions.

As to what I would do? No idea, but would like to think along the lines of a lot of damage! In reality? Red mist and who knows? As to the flowers for the dead? Nah! Nowhere near my property. That is intimidation and I wouldn’t allow it!

Too many times people have been locked up for attacking a criminal in their own homes. The farmer, Tony Martin who shot a kid in the dark. OK it was in the back, but that makes no difference. Break in and pay the consequences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone breaking into my house while I'm in will face the death penalty accidentally or not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With the house owner all the way on this one. Should actually get an award.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I am not sure what I would do actually.. God forbid I ever am in the position.

He did wrong, but will still be someones son, hubby and father.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

Isnt that going to make the burglers come more heavily armed then and put your family at greater risk?"

How would the burglar know that the poster is going to defend his family and property in the manner he describes?

The poster is right and they shouldnt be burgling people in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone try's to break in here I'd batter them to death with one of charlottes dildos

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

I have a rather large serated knife that once its in, is never comming out, in my bedroom.

Anyone breaks in, is a danger to my family, so won't be leaving to try again.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Someone try's to break in here I'd batter them to death with one of charlottes dildos"

Lmao that's funny. I have a mental image of a guy wielding a huge dildo with studs in dishing out mayhem

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By *isterTeaseMan
over a year ago

Chigwell

[Removed by poster at 19/09/11 23:26:12]

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By *isterTeaseMan
over a year ago

Chigwell

[Removed by poster at 19/09/11 23:27:22]

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By *isterTeaseMan
over a year ago

Chigwell

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

Agree 200%

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt many people are going to sit down with a knife-wielding burglar and say "Alrite me old mucker how about I get the sherry out and we have a game of cards?"

Not when you could be battering him with a dildo

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Yup... If they broke in... Give them the stuff... Better that than leave your son daughter without a mum or dad.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Break*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Some very interesting responses. I do hope non confuse a meet with an intruder and dildo some poor bloke to death!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Yep scum has that effect on me xx

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Some very interesting responses. I do hope non confuse a meet with an intruder and dildo some poor bloke to death!

I have to admit, the dildo one was funny, I had a real funny vision in my head.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Some very interesting responses. I do hope non confuse a meet with an intruder and dildo some poor bloke to death!

I have to admit, the dildo one was funny, I had a real funny vision in my head.

I can just see a potential meet being brought home by one partner and the other is asleep on the sofa, sees the stranger and splat!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Death by dildo will be the headline !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a way to go.

banged round the lughole with a Rampant Rabbit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow, a lot of violent thinking people about

Some very interesting responses. I do hope non confuse a meet with an intruder and dildo some poor bloke to death!

My Master and I laugh about this often..as just under my bed is a rather big box of toys including some rather large dildos....

I actually on the OP would have no problem defending my home with any force needed.. my kids are asleep upstairs...

I have always thought that if someone breaks into your house then its tough if they get hurt.

a good few years back I was living with my Sister in Manchester ( we lived in moss side :S) but we also had two great big dogs.. ( although soft as butter with people they liked) Bengie was a rottie who wasnt quite full pedigree.. his mother was rottie x st bernard.. he was huge..

Anyway.. one night someone broke in and tried to rob the house.. they realised their mistake and got pinned by the dogs.. they were trained not to do to much.. but Bengy had nipped one of the intruders when he had hit him with a piece of wood...

The scum that broke into the house tried to have the dog put down.. but luckily sense was seen... as they said that the dog had been capable of ripping him apart but had mearly nipped in self defence.

All I can say is he was lucky the dogs got him and not me and my sister...

Cali

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"What a way to go.

banged round the lughole with a Rampant Rabbit

Thats not the best place to be banged with it.

( lol at lughole though, not heard that for years)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol the minute I wrote that I thought two things.

"That didn't come out right" and...

"I sound a million years old.No-one says that any more."

Bloody hell I'm getting old

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol the minute I wrote that I thought two things.

"That didn't come out right" and...

"I sound a million years old.No-one says that any more."

Bloody hell I'm getting old

reminds me of my mother

lol

Cali x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you break into my house you'd better not make a mess on my floor when I cave your head in with some unwieldy tools.

Ask no question other than "Hey, man, why you making a mess on my floor?!!"

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

FOR SALE :

1 x black eye mask

1 x navy and white horizontal striped jumper

1 x shoulder bag with 'SWAG' motif

All serious offers considered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While I agree with the "pro defence" attitude, we need to remember that that not all robbers are y, meek, feeble individuals and taking one on might not end in your favour.

Protecting my loved ones: To the death!

My TV and electrical goods: Insurance.

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By *taryscorpCouple
over a year ago

boston

got 4 kids 3 our girls come in my home and i will defend them any way i can

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone broke into my house soon after I moved in. They couldn't get out the kitchen into the rest of the house as I lock the French doors from the kitchen extension into the rest of the house.

They came back two days later, using the patio table to climb on the kitchen roof and prised open my daughter's bedroom.

Fate would have it we were all away for the weekend. I can't imagine how I'd react if I found someone in my daughter's room. If I happened to kill him in her bedroom I don't think if lose any sleep over it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone broke into my house soon after I moved in. They couldn't get out the kitchen into the rest of the house as I lock the French doors from the kitchen extension into the rest of the house.

They came back two days later, using the patio table to climb on the kitchen roof and prised open my daughter's bedroom.

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By *ngel Devil69Couple
over a year ago

Manilva

Maybe this case will send out a warning to would be burglars?

Risk of death, should they unlawfully enter?

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

I actually find this rather scary! Sorry but most of its reads as 'I sort of hope someone breaks into my house so I can show what a super tough hero I am', like looking for an excuse to kill someone!

How many of you making the 'I'd kill them' comments have children? What if one of your children sees fit one day to break into a house and gets beaten to death by the occupant?

I've not read the news report but that's not the point. The point is, these things can only be judged on their merit on each case. Unless someone is actually suggesting they would buy me a pint if I killed their kid, bother, sister, mum, dad for breaking into my house?

If someone was to break in my house while we are here chances are we'd be in bed. Given that I like to think I'd have the sense to bolster the bedroom door so I can best protect my wife while she calls for help.

Last time I had a fight, I think I was 14. Chances are a person breaking into my house will know a lot more about inflicting violence than I do! So I don't actually see myself as best qualified to beat the crap out of someone familiar with violence with little or no respect for themselves, other people or the law!

That said, in my imagination yeah I'd kill the fucker, tear their heart out with my bare hands and choke the bastard with it

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By *nothercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Exeter

I knew a guy that chased a burglar out of his house and stuck a ww2 firemans axe in the scroats back as he was climbing the garden wall!

When the police arrived they told the householder not to worry as they had been after said burglar for a while, but never had any evidence untill now!

The only action taken against my friend was that they confiscated the axe.....

Now if was our house, I would only half kill them.....TWICE!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not that far away from here and they may still charge the guy. I feel sorry for the family but don't think he did anything wrong as he was defending himself.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

A human sized mouse trap would be good.

SNAPPPP!!!!

I'd happily jump all over someone's head until it was mush then shove the jelly like red substance that was left up their arse whilst simultaneously shitting down their neck, without a second thought, if an intruder came anywhere near a family member.

BUT as BK says, electrical equipment can be replaced and not worth the danger of being knifed in your own living room.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a fine line on how much force is ok. If the robber wasn't armed and he stabbed him that might be going too far but what ever its not murder. On this occasion the guy did right though as i see it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I got jumped by two guys a couple of years ago whilst away with work, one guy ended up with a broken jaw and wrist, I was arrested and held overnight before being released, it was all caught on camera and the two guys were not charged or kept overnight, I had to explain to my family and company where I had been, the Police said I had used to much force in retaliating !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I got jumped by two guys a couple of years ago whilst away with work, one guy ended up with a broken jaw and wrist, I was arrested and held overnight before being released, it was all caught on camera and the two guys were not charged or kept overnight, I had to explain to my family and company where I had been, the Police said I had used to much force in retaliating !"

Yeh, and my wrist still hurts on cold winter mornings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"59yr old man fatally stabbed an intruder at his home in Salford" You may find that the intruder died outside the guys house, and although the family of the victim lay floral tributes, his father has admitted he shouldnt have been there and that he holds no blame to the gentleman who stabbed him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well it it was my house no matter what i would defend it tooth and nail no matter what outcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeh, and my wrist still hurts on cold winter mornings.

it happened in Scotland

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sorry to say this, you have the right to defend yourself yeah, however killing someone is not right.. wounding them and keeping them prisoner till police arrived yeah il go with that, but not kill someone.... That person is someones son,brother, father etc and they dont deserve that pain..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sorry to say this, you have the right to defend yourself yeah, however killing someone is not right.. wounding them and keeping them prisoner till police arrived yeah il go with that, but not kill someone.... That person is someones son,brother, father etc and they dont deserve that pain.."

Call me a hard bastard but if any member of my family did that then I feel they deserve what they get

I would in anycase disown them and that includes my daughter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So we will end up as ad as America and own guns next to defend our houses etc, and look what a state that place is in...

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"So we will end up as ad as America and own guns next to defend our houses etc, and look what a state that place is in..."

I am really sorry to say this, but I think your attitude is exactly why some turn to crime! They know that there are those out there that will defend their rights and pander to their needs.

I come from a broken home, we had no money and my dear old mum had to work all hours and in terrible jobs just to keep food on the table. We were latchkey kids but I'll tell you this, we have never even considered breaking into someone else’s property.

We went out and got jobs, no matter what they were. We even went round cleaning cars for a pittance. And what boils my blood more than almost anything are the "do-gooders" who protect and defend criminal actions by trying to draw comparisons with America, should we go down that route!

We are nothing like America, we have no general gun ownership. Yes, perhaps some burglars will carry weapons if retaliation becomes the norm, but I also think it will make others think again about their actions. But then, if I had my way, I’d string em all up by their thumbs!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simples.

Break into my house, where my child is asleep?

You have no rights. You forfeited your rights at the door.

You did so of your own volition.

Hence I will fuck you up so badly your own family won't be able to identify you.

That is all.

Well said that man! same applies here

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"So we will end up as ad as America and own guns next to defend our houses etc, and look what a state that place is in..."

Actually there is one county in one state where the law says you have to own a gun to protect your property.

This county has the lowest crime record in the USA. Burglary is practically unheard of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we will end up as ad as America and own guns next to defend our houses etc, and look what a state that place is in..."

There isn't any evidence to support that though is there?

The whole reason it's a big news story is because this kind of thing happens very rarely. Remember that farmer Tony Martin?

I just don't see us ever going down the route of having everyone bearing arms.

Although part of me thinks if something puts the fear of people fighting back against criminals then happy day.

Sod them and they shouldnt be on your property in the first place committing crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we will end up as ad as America and own guns next to defend our houses etc, and look what a state that place is in...

There isn't any evidence to support that though is there?

The whole reason it's a big news story is because this kind of thing happens very rarely. Remember that farmer Tony Martin?

I just don't see us ever going down the route of having everyone bearing arms.

Although part of me thinks if something puts the fear of people fighting back against criminals then happy day.

Sod them and they shouldnt be on your property in the first place committing crime."

Tony Martin was treat really badly. If it happened now he wouldn't go to jail I'll bet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sorry to say this, you have the right to defend yourself yeah, however killing someone is not right.. wounding them and keeping them prisoner till police arrived "

Am sorry but if you expect the police to turn up in a reasonable time then you are seriously deluded.

" but not kill someone.... That person is someones son,brother, father etc and they dont deserve that pain.."

They deserve everything they get the moment they choose to break the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The law actually says that you are required to stop once the person is no longer a threat to you, and by that it can me anything from running away from you to simply letting go of you to dead, it depends on the circumstances. If they are trying to take your life and the onlyway to stop them is killing them then it is a justified act. If they turn and run and you knife them etc it may be classes as murder, man slaughter. Other factors are taken into acount such as size of the assalant in relation to the defender etc. Please all those people saying you will kill people if they break in, think...if you do that in a case were it is UNJUSTIFIED you are going to prison...consider who will take care of your children, partner mother etc then. If it happens it happens but the attitude of if they get in they arent leaving alive...not only unrealistic but selfish, if i need to take a life I will...if I dont I wont, if they run from me even better. As regards weapons, if i have picked up a weapon of opportunity in panic thats different to having one placed to use or unlocking the gun cabinet to remove the shotgun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also another point saying "they deserve everything they get the moment they break the law...." sorry but just defending your tv and video etc is NOT going to justify a killing, defending your family will, but if they are just stealing your going to find that hard to justify. Also does the taking of a tv stereo etc justify killing, taking a life? id say no sorry but no, a physical option ...yes...killing no. It isnt easy to take a life so many people may freeze etc when it comes to it. As for the flowers, no thats just stupid they should be placed at the grave of the dead person not the home of a person who may have been defending their life and their loved ones lives. Please note the opions expressed in this article are the opinions of the individual not the opinions of any bugger else :P

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