FabSwingers.com forum: Government rules animals don't matter

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace.

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By *.1079Man
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

Does this mean I can have horse back in my lasagne. Tasted shit since they got rid of it.

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By *eesideMan
over a year ago

margate sumwear by the sea

"Does this mean I can have horse back in my lasagne. Tasted shit since they got rid of it."

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By *eesideMan
over a year ago

margate sumwear by the sea

"The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace."

I Agree op but wot can you do ?

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace."

It's like a 'Unilad' headline.

I think the government do care but as you say they arnt carrying through certain laws that the EU put in place

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

I don't think it means all animal welfare rules are out of the window. I would like to understand more clearly what it really actually covers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It may be repealed and replaced with other legislation.

Doesn't mean they think animals aren't worthy.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I ken Lee if living is without you.

I Ken Lee anymore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We'll have our own law's written up. I'm thinking it's something to do with farming, because it's usually about money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Animal welfare laws that allow geese to be force fed until their livers nearly explode. Animal welfare laws that allow bull fighting or bull running. Animal welfare laws that allow goats to be thrown off church spires.

I think we can do a little better than that.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"We'll have our own law's written up. I'm thinking it's something to do with farming, because it's usually about money. "

Movement of live animals etc. Maybe?

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By *itmanAndHerrCouple
over a year ago

st helens

"The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace.

It's like a 'Unilad' headline.

I think the government do care but as you say they arnt carrying through certain laws that the EU put in place"

I'd imagine this is to make trade with certain other countries smoother.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Animal welfare laws that allow geese to be force fed until their livers nearly explode. Animal welfare laws that allow bull fighting or bull running. Animal welfare laws that allow goats to be thrown off church spires.

I think we can do a little better than that."

I read that as bull rimming as was thinking "Good luck with that one!"

Really should find my reading glasses

Agree with you though, we can do better, whether we will is maybe a more valid question.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

I think the government will set up our own animal welfare laws which you will probably find in line with or better than current existing ones from the EU. Despite repeated cases of animal cruelty which make the news, we are on the whole an animal loving nation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we can do much better than the current EU laws so what's the point in keeping them, they aren't fit for purpose.

Out with the old and in with the new and all that!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's interesting because one of the "facts" the Remainers were putting forward was that bacon would be more expensive if we left because our pig welfare laws were higher than Europe's!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

From a large news report;

Michael Gove is accused today of backtracking on high-profile pledges to protect animals from suffering, in climbdowns linked to Brexit.

The Environment Secretary has dumped a cast-iron guarantee that animals will still be regarded as “sentient” – responsive beings, capable of feelings – say animal rights groups.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace."

maybe our laws on animal welfare are better than those of the EU anyway? Denmark allows pig crates we don't over here and not wanting to get into a religious debate but what about the live slaughter of animals in the name of religion??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t agree or disagree firstly ok. I just want to say there’s a lot more to it than you think. Transportation and selling/buying of meet products has to be taken into account. I would HOPE this is done with the animals welfare considered as high as the next thing.

I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you or others may believe but I could be wrong. Sometimes the media create unnecessary drama with in a story

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"I ken Lee if living is without you.

I Ken Lee anymore"

Wrong thread sorry OP. This was ment for miss heard lyrics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't like the fact I can see the cows in the field by my house one week and stroke them through the fence then the next week they're taken to the abattoire. They do produce nice beef though.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

Its so you can import bleached horribly raised chicken from America.

Currently chicken in America is so badly treated that its banned in the EU. America has made it clear to the UK you're gonna take their chicken.

America already kicked the UK by imposing a 219% tax on bombardier planes, where thousands of jobs in the UK are based making the parts. The UK pleaded with America not to bring in the tax and they did. UK was helpless to prevent it.

Of course airbus then bought a large section of bombardier, and will tell America to drop the 219% tax when they do, protecting the UK interests. A hard exit will now end them thousands of jobs.

UK farming also got hit hard. The EU tried to cut the UK a deal. The EU negotiates quotas for the import of food. For this example we will use 1000 units of beef. They calculated the average use of beef by uk over the past 3 years. Lets say it comes to 100. They said they would reduce their quota of 1000, to 900, and hand the 100 directly over to the UK.

However America/Canada/NewZealand/Argentina/Thailand.. etc etc said no.

They said the 1000 units of beef deal with the EU allowed them to move the beef around to areas of high demand. So if demand dropped in the UK they could simply ship more to france/germany/ireland.

They said they want as high a quota as possible with the EU, and they will negotiate quotas with the UK directly, and the EU is not to help them get good deals.

America is bluntly insisting you take their chickens, so you will have to lower animal rights to allow it. Back to the old school chicken farms of the 80s.

However, this will mean UK chickens will be banned from the EU, however they probably think they can sidestep this issue by producing some chicken only for the EU in EU standard farms.

Its pretty clear that the EU stepped up to the bat to protect the UK. Even at its own cost.

But.. Recent events have made the EU start to expect a hard exit. UK newspapers printed articles telling EU leaders to shut their gobs. Some saying that the EU stance is because of the IRA. After the EU asked the UK to make final their decisions on the northern Ireland border, and human rights issues.

Anyway, the UK wont do better than the EU. Clearly the UK can not protect itself now, and remains to be seen if it will be able to into the future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like the fact I can see the cows in the field by my house one week and stroke them through the fence then the next week they're taken to the abattoire. They do produce nice beef though. "

Beef from bull milk from cow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who cares it's only animals another good thing about brexit

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By *unguya2zMan
over a year ago

coventry..ish

I think we can do a little better than that.

I read that as bull rimming as was thinking "Good luck with that one!"

Really should find my reading glasses

Agree with you though, we can do better, whether we will is maybe a more valid question.

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By *.1079Man
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

"I don't like the fact I can see the cows in the field by my house one week and stroke them through the fence then the next week they're taken to the abattoire. They do produce nice beef though. "

When your stroking them just think of a nice steak

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Eu directives are the minimum a country must have in law. So we could already have *better* laws. The only advantage as I can see in not carrying over is they wish to remove part of the current law. Unless the current law says a practice must be legal in all countries eg the uk couldn’t ban fois gras. Anybody with knowledge help out here ?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

They had better do something about it - unless our welfare regs meet the required standards, we won't be able to trade with the EU.

I can see farmers being pretty worried about this, especially in the sheep sector, and possibly pigs too.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"I don’t agree or disagree firstly ok. I just want to say there’s a lot more to it than you think. Transportation and selling/buying of meet products has to be taken into account. I would HOPE this is done with the animals welfare considered as high as the next thing.

I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you or others may believe but I could be wrong. Sometimes the media create unnecessary drama with in a story "

Live exports are a massive hassle, as well you know. It's much easier to trade in carcases.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I don't like the fact I can see the cows in the field by my house one week and stroke them through the fence then the next week they're taken to the abattoire. They do produce nice beef though.

When your stroking them just think of a nice steak"

would that be the steak pumped full of hormones that are allowed in the US, but banned throughout the EU for example............

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"I think we can do much better than the current EU laws so what's the point in keeping them, they aren't fit for purpose.

Out with the old and in with the new and all that! "

Except of course, they are some of the highest in the world. Compare and contrast with the USA, which has no welfare regulations at all, I think if people saw the way that a lot of their poultry and pork are farmed, they would be pretty shocked.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

Yep I used to be a livestock farmer too in the early 2000's and we stuck rigidly to the rules set, and vets regularly came in to spot check us. It was always well known that French farmers didn't!

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

This is, of course bollocks. I know British farmers like to think that, but they have the same, onerous regs elsewhere - try talking to Dutch, French or Belgian farmers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

This is, of course bollocks. I know British farmers like to think that, but they have the same, onerous regs elsewhere - try talking to Dutch, French or Belgian farmers. "

Is that also true about pig farming?

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I suspect they'll put their own animal welfare laws into place.

You could write this sensationalist headline about every piece of legislation. We're leaving Europe, mainly so we don't have to follow European directives. The UK government will set its own.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

This is, of course bollocks. I know British farmers like to think that, but they have the same, onerous regs elsewhere - try talking to Dutch, French or Belgian farmers.

Is that also true about pig farming?"

Yes - the poor conditions I was talking about pertain to the USA. Sorry if that was unclear in my post.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

Yep I used to be a livestock farmer too in the early 2000's and we stuck rigidly to the rules set, and vets regularly came in to spot check us. It was always well known that French farmers didn't!"

I've been a livestock farmer until very recently (this autumn). I always grazed "short term" lets and as a result could never claim any SFP. I saw Animal Health a couple of times when I first started (apparently raising your sheep numbers from 15 to over 400 triggers a visit...

). I have never seen DEFRA, and all my stock are on land with public access. A cynic might say that the inspectors sole purpose is to dock SFP for minor cross-compliance issues, and that they possibly work on commission....

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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago

Altrincham

"The UK government has decided in it's brexit discussions that the welfare of animals covered by EU law will not be carried forward in law after brexit.

They have deemed that animals don't have feelings, feel pain or of a sentient nature and therefore the EU laws protecting them will not be carried to British law once the UK has left the EU.

This is disgusting and clearly been kept under the radar to avoid outrage and public outcry.

It's a disgrace."

Yes its a huge disgrace, but not exactly unexpected, the EU was the only reason why those laws existed in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

This is, of course bollocks. I know British farmers like to think that, but they have the same, onerous regs elsewhere - try talking to Dutch, French or Belgian farmers.

Is that also true about pig farming?

Yes - the poor conditions I was talking about pertain to the USA. Sorry if that was unclear in my post. "

No no. Not at all

I was under the impression that danish pig farming was pretty horrific but we we're still importing the meat even though they didn't confirm to our welfare standards?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

This is, of course bollocks. I know British farmers like to think that, but they have the same, onerous regs elsewhere - try talking to Dutch, French or Belgian farmers.

Is that also true about pig farming?

Yes - the poor conditions I was talking about pertain to the USA. Sorry if that was unclear in my post.

No no. Not at all

I was under the impression that danish pig farming was pretty horrific but we we're still importing the meat even though they didn't confirm to our welfare standards?"

It conforms to EU standards - the main difference is that they have a lot less outdoor units than we do.It would not necessarily meet "Red Tractor", but that is a voluntary scheme and not compulsory. A guide here:

http://www.pig-world.co.uk/news/highlighting-the-differences-how-uk-welfare-standards-compare-with-our-competitors.html

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

The livestock sector seems worried about the ruling too:

http://www.pig-world.co.uk/news/rejection-of-animal-sentience-from-brexit-bill-risks-uk-short-fall-on-high-animal-welfare-standards.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK. Thanks Jimi. I guess it's a case of watch this space

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is that we have these strict laws in the EU and generally we in the UK are the only bloody ones to follow them.

As a farmer myself it makes me so peeved it's untrue.

"
as a fellow farmer I agree we have the highest animal welfare rules and we stick to them or we can't sell our animals

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