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Sexual harassment

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By *thwiltsm OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

It’s been in the news a lot recently and reminds me of a story a female friend told me, I wonder if people think it would be harassment or even abuse.

She worked nights in a hospital and during a bit of banter with a male senior staff nurse let slip she had been to a swingers party, she was a nursing auxiliary so he was her boss really.

Later they went on a break, the break room had sofas to kip on, she heard him get up and assumed he was off to the toilet but then felt him slip his hand inside the covers and down her top, she said she didn’t stop him and what followed was a bit of a fumble stopping short of full sex.

The next time she was working she wasn’t expecting him to be there but he had swapped shifts and as he was the senior staff nurse was in a position to set everyone’s break times so they ended up on another break together.

They had full sex this time and although she enjoyed it was a bit worried about the situation.

She never used to work the same nights as him that often but he started turning up more so was changing work patterns to be on the ward more often it happened about six times total before she plucked up the courage to say it wasn’t going to happen anymore

Looking back on it all months later she became angry that he was manipulating shifts and breaks to be together and also angry at herself for not telling him it wasn’t on sooner.

So you have a guy who sees this lady as a willing consenting partner and a lady who was probably flattered at first but also a bit scared about saying no.

What are your thoughts? Harassment? Abuse? Or maybe just silly mucking about that got out of hand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sexual harassment as she fully consented to sex with him the first time they did it according to your story. She can't have been that bothered about the initial fumble or she would have made an attempt to stop him. Sounds more like she has developed regrets to be honest. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It’s been in the news a lot recently and reminds me of a story a female friend told me, I wonder if people think it would be harassment or even abuse.

She worked nights in a hospital and during a bit of banter with a male senior staff nurse let slip she had been to a swingers party, she was a nursing auxiliary so he was her boss really.

Later they went on a break, the break room had sofas to kip on, she heard him get up and assumed he was off to the toilet but then felt him slip his hand inside the covers and down her top, she said she didn’t stop him and what followed was a bit of a fumble stopping short of full sex.

The next time she was working she wasn’t expecting him to be there but he had swapped shifts and as he was the senior staff nurse was in a position to set everyone’s break times so they ended up on another break together.

They had full sex this time and although she enjoyed it was a bit worried about the situation.

She never used to work the same nights as him that often but he started turning up more so was changing work patterns to be on the ward more often it happened about six times total before she plucked up the courage to say it wasn’t going to happen anymore

Looking back on it all months later she became angry that he was manipulating shifts and breaks to be together and also angry at herself for not telling him it wasn’t on sooner.

So you have a guy who sees this lady as a willing consenting partner and a lady who was probably flattered at first but also a bit scared about saying no.

What are your thoughts? Harassment? Abuse? Or maybe just silly mucking about that got out of hand"

Manipulating the shifts could possibly be construed as an abuse of his position but, she'd have a very difficult time proving that what did happen was non consensual,she can claim she felt pressurised or intimidated but she'd have difficulty proving that too,particularly if nothing further happened after she had said 'no more'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not sexual harassment as she fully consented to sex with him the first time they did it according to your story. She can't have been that bothered about the initial fumble or she would have made an attempt to stop him. Sounds more like she has developed regrets to be honest. X"

This

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By *thwiltsm OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Have to add she’s not looking to report him or prove anything, just told me about a regrettable situation she ended up in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have to add she’s not looking to report him or prove anything, just told me about a regrettable situation she ended up in "

Maybe consider it a valuable lesson learned, then? Getting involved in 'things' at work has a tendency to end in tears,in my experience.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

From his position she didn't say no or give any indication she wasn't willing so I wouldn't say it's a consent issue but it is an abuse of power especially as it was at work and he was using his position to be there at the same time. She probably feels shame for feeling so powerless in the situation.

It's a difficult one. I posted a thread called crossing the line the other day, which is not dissimilar. The same question came up for me with all the stuff in the news recently and thinking back to some things that have happened to me in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not sexual harassment as she fully consented to sex with him the first time they did it according to your story. She can't have been that bothered about the initial fumble or she would have made an attempt to stop him. Sounds more like she has developed regrets to be honest. X

This "

Developed the “ick” decided it wasn’t something she wanted, not harassment but possibly construed abuse of his position to manipulate the shift patterns

MrsK

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By *thwiltsm OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Lol not heard of the “ick” before, had to look it up but I think your right and I love that word

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By *razysexysingleWoman
over a year ago

Northampton

She just needs to make better life choices I’m afraid

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

He is VERY lucky she didn't report him as his initial behaviour was assault

Lack of a no does NOT equal consent.

He could STILL have fit in a lot of trouble for -

Abuse of power

Inappropriate behaviour at work

Neglect of duty

Inappropriate use of resources (the shift manipulation - I've known someone getting in trouble for similar in order to ensure they were always on shift with their 'Bessie mate')

Sexual harassment

He was in a position of power and control over her, consent that is coerced - also NOT true consent

Abusers do sometimes mask sexual abuse as a 'fling' or relationship - doesn't mean it's not abuse.

I hope she's ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is mostly a case of a man in a position of power assuming patriarchal privilege and taking advantage of it. It’s the kind of behaviour we need to undo as a society.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"This is mostly a case of a man in a position of power assuming patriarchal privilege and taking advantage of it. It’s the kind of behaviour we need to undo as a society. "

Do you think we ever will? If I'm honest I doubt it. It's like equal pay, I saw a report it might take 100 years to correct. We've had legislation for decades so we should have made more progress if the will was really there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m more concerned about them having full sex on a ward lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is mostly a case of a man in a position of power assuming patriarchal privilege and taking advantage of it. It’s the kind of behaviour we need to undo as a society.

Do you think we ever will? If I'm honest I doubt it. It's like equal pay, I saw a report it might take 100 years to correct. We've had legislation for decades so we should have made more progress if the will was really there"

I have been reading a book called Eros/Power - Love in the Spirit of Inquiry. It’s about a painfully honest autobiographical inquiry approach to transforming relationships between men and women, illustrated through profoundly moving and excruciatingly honest stories of the two authors (a man and a woman) who are engaged in this relational action inquiry.

Having read it, I believe there is a method there for transforming ourselves but it will happen one or two people at a time.....

I’m now actively exploring what else is happening in the field and there are a number of pretty amazing women leading this kind of work with men following

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore"

Bull! It simply requires abusers and harassers to bloody behave and treat women with respect - oh and learn what actual consent is!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Bull! It simply requires abusers and harassers to bloody behave and treat women with respect - oh and learn what actual consent is! "

That would be a start

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m more concerned about them having full sex on a ward lol

"
this

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"This is mostly a case of a man in a position of power assuming patriarchal privilege and taking advantage of it. It’s the kind of behaviour we need to undo as a society.

Do you think we ever will? If I'm honest I doubt it. It's like equal pay, I saw a report it might take 100 years to correct. We've had legislation for decades so we should have made more progress if the will was really there

I have been reading a book called Eros/Power - Love in the Spirit of Inquiry. It’s about a painfully honest autobiographical inquiry approach to transforming relationships between men and women, illustrated through profoundly moving and excruciatingly honest stories of the two authors (a man and a woman) who are engaged in this relational action inquiry.

Having read it, I believe there is a method there for transforming ourselves but it will happen one or two people at a time.....

I’m now actively exploring what else is happening in the field and there are a number of pretty amazing women leading this kind of work with men following "

Sounds a good book, I'll have a look for it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is mostly a case of a man in a position of power assuming patriarchal privilege and taking advantage of it. It’s the kind of behaviour we need to undo as a society.

Do you think we ever will? If I'm honest I doubt it. It's like equal pay, I saw a report it might take 100 years to correct. We've had legislation for decades so we should have made more progress if the will was really there

I have been reading a book called Eros/Power - Love in the Spirit of Inquiry. It’s about a painfully honest autobiographical inquiry approach to transforming relationships between men and women, illustrated through profoundly moving and excruciatingly honest stories of the two authors (a man and a woman) who are engaged in this relational action inquiry.

Having read it, I believe there is a method there for transforming ourselves but it will happen one or two people at a time.....

I’m now actively exploring what else is happening in the field and there are a number of pretty amazing women leading this kind of work with men following

Sounds a good book, I'll have a look for it "

If you do read it, I’d be interested to hear your view on it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We're only hearing one side of the story & second hand at that.

Sounds like he's taken advantage of his position because she didn't discourage his sexual advances, they had sex.

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By *thwiltsm OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"I’m more concerned about them having full sex on a ward lol

"

It was in a break room away from the ward

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

He wasn't a mind reader. She seemed keen so he changed his shifts to have more fun together. If she had a problem, she should have mentioned it.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"

Sounds a good book, I'll have a look for it

If you do read it, I’d be interested to hear your view on it "

It's on order and will be delivered Sunday. Not sure how quick I'll read it I have a stack of 17 books on my table in the pile to read for some research I'm doing. Always was too ambitious

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m more concerned about them having full sex on a ward lol

It was in a break room away from the ward"

Most wards only have 3 staff members on at night and wouldn’t send two off but hey I don’t work there.

I wouldn’t say it’s sexual harassment because she was happy to fuck him previously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/11/17 22:59:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sounds a good book, I'll have a look for it

If you do read it, I’d be interested to hear your view on it

It's on order and will be delivered Sunday. Not sure how quick I'll read it I have a stack of 17 books on my table in the pile to read for some research I'm doing. Always was too ambitious "

I read the foreword and it jumped the other twenty odd on the queue- I only put it down to go to bed then polished it off the following morning;-)

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore"

Exactly this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He wasn't a mind reader. She seemed keen so he changed his shifts to have more fun together. If she had a problem, she should have mentioned it."

And there in lie the unconscious set of assumptions that colour so many of our views on what is legitimate in erotic encounters. Underpinning his actions are the assumptions of patriarchal privilege and the misuse of the power of his position. From what we have heard and I admit that is a second hand account of the story at no point does it appear that he tested whether the actions he was taking were mutually agreeable. Therefore he was assuming ongoing consent assuming consent had been reallly sought and given on the first place.

These are the actions that often we take unconsciously as men and we should be examining them together and unpicking them, if we are to liberate ourselves from our cultural and historical assumptions about the legitimate use of power in relationships.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this "

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"

Sounds a good book, I'll have a look for it

If you do read it, I’d be interested to hear your view on it

It's on order and will be delivered Sunday. Not sure how quick I'll read it I have a stack of 17 books on my table in the pile to read for some research I'm doing. Always was too ambitious

I read the foreword and it jumped the other twenty odd on the queue- I only put it down to go to bed then polished it off the following morning;-)"

Oo I like a book that grabs you that much. I'll give the foreword a go and see if it does the same

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"He wasn't a mind reader. She seemed keen so he changed his shifts to have more fun together. If she had a problem, she should have mentioned it.

And there in lie the unconscious set of assumptions that colour so many of our views on what is legitimate in erotic encounters. Underpinning his actions are the assumptions of patriarchal privilege and the misuse of the power of his position. From what we have heard and I admit that is a second hand account of the story at no point does it appear that he tested whether the actions he was taking were mutually agreeable. Therefore he was assuming ongoing consent assuming consent had been reallly sought and given on the first place.

These are the actions that often we take unconsciously as men and we should be examining them together and unpicking them, if we are to liberate ourselves from our cultural and historical assumptions about the legitimate use of power in relationships."

Have you seen the TED Talk on r*pe and reconciliation. Not sure I can post a link but it comes up easily in google. It's on this very issue

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)"

If you click my green arrow and look for the crossing the line post and read the quote by Louis CK I think it gives a good indication of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)"

That’s the essence of the misuse of his power. He made decisions unilaterally rather than seeking mutuality

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this "

Nope. It's getting to the point where (usually) men are starting to realise they're not entitled to sex and to not sexually harass others.

About time too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

Nope. It's getting to the point where (usually) men are starting to realise they're not entitled to sex and to not sexually harass others.

About time too."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)"

The fact she has to 'pluck up courage' to say no suggests she is worried about the ramifications. That to me is abuse of power.

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

That’s the essence of the misuse of his power. He made decisions unilaterally rather than seeking mutuality"
okay. I kinda get that. So if he asked should he change shifts to make it easier that’s okay. But to move and the see if she wanna sex it’s an abuse. Even if she’s okay with having sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

If you click my green arrow and look for the crossing the line post and read the quote by Louis CK I think it gives a good indication of it"

That’s a good example of the critical self reflection that is required.

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

If you click my green arrow and look for the crossing the line post and read the quote by Louis CK I think it gives a good indication of it"
thx. Will do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

That’s the essence of the misuse of his power. He made decisions unilaterally rather than seeking mutualityokay. I kinda get that. So if he asked should he change shifts to make it easier that’s okay. But to move and the see if she wanna sex it’s an abuse. Even if she’s okay with having sex. "

There’s an even more difficult issue on the initial approach as the whole act created a dilemma for the woman because she is in a subordinate position to him. Making it more difficult for her to say no.

Sexual encounters of this sort are fraught because of the unexamined power relations present.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's regrettable as it was a coerced sexual relationship but the initial physical contact was potentially illegal as well as likely enough for suspension and dismissal - of she'd stopped it there and then. I can see reasons why someone wouldn't.

She could potentially discuss it with someone to set her mind at ease.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop.

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

That’s the essence of the misuse of his power. He made decisions unilaterally rather than seeking mutualityokay. I kinda get that. So if he asked should he change shifts to make it easier that’s okay. But to move and the see if she wanna sex it’s an abuse. Even if she’s okay with having sex.

There’s an even more difficult issue on the initial approach as the whole act created a dilemma for the woman because she is in a subordinate position to him. Making it more difficult for her to say no.

Sexual encounters of this sort are fraught because of the unexamined power relations present."
100% agree with the starting point. Which kinda sets the tone for the whole shebang. It was the comment in isolation I was wanting to drill into. And your reply gave me food for though. I can totally see myself doing something I thought was *helpful* without spotting an implied meaning. Maybe not quite so boss : subordinate but something a bit more subtle. Scary really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop."

I don’t think that is an unpopular view on this thread but it also needs for women to become increasingly aware how they collude with men’s behaviour.

I think women will lead the way on this...

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

He knew BEFORE he did anything that he had more power than her, he didn't seek consent before touching her sexually, he didn't check with her about the shifts...

It's the power that is at the heart of this... He had it she didn't. He knew that without being a mind reader.

Christ I've been treated with a LOT more respect by men I've met swinging, even in clubs than this man treated a subordinate.

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other."

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can someone walk me through the abuse of power bit ? I get he’s used power to get shifts aligned. But the term is now used more for getting people to do what they want. Rather using it to get a mutually beneficial outcome (as far as I can tell she did none of this because he was senior ...)

That’s the essence of the misuse of his power. He made decisions unilaterally rather than seeking mutualityokay. I kinda get that. So if he asked should he change shifts to make it easier that’s okay. But to move and the see if she wanna sex it’s an abuse. Even if she’s okay with having sex.

There’s an even more difficult issue on the initial approach as the whole act created a dilemma for the woman because she is in a subordinate position to him. Making it more difficult for her to say no.

Sexual encounters of this sort are fraught because of the unexamined power relations present.100% agree with the starting point. Which kinda sets the tone for the whole shebang. It was the comment in isolation I was wanting to drill into. And your reply gave me food for though. I can totally see myself doing something I thought was *helpful* without spotting an implied meaning. Maybe not quite so boss : subordinate but something a bit more subtle. Scary really. "

That’s why I mentioned the book earlier in the thread. It gives a beautiful yet deeply challenging insight into how to go about engaging with the scary personal/mutual inquiry we need to engage in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough ."

Assumption isn't good enough for consent.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop.

I don’t think that is an unpopular view on this thread but it also needs for women to become increasingly aware how they collude with men’s behaviour.

I think women will lead the way on this..."

I think the key issue is making it safe for people to speak out. For too long people have been silenced, not believed and put up with stuff. Not just women but look at child sex abuse with savile, child abuse Victoria climbie etc. When it comes to it, so many people knew yet there was a collective failure.

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Watch the TED talk by Thordis Elva. It illustrates everything this thread is about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough ."

Correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop.

I don’t think that is an unpopular view on this thread but it also needs for women to become increasingly aware how they collude with men’s behaviour.

I think women will lead the way on this...

I think the key issue is making it safe for people to speak out. For too long people have been silenced, not believed and put up with stuff. Not just women but look at child sex abuse with savile, child abuse Victoria climbie etc. When it comes to it, so many people knew yet there was a collective failure. "

Agree with this, although more also needs to be made of male victims. There's an estimated 85,000 r@pes of women and 12,000 of men (R@pe Crisis), We need to be discussing the men as well.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

We need men and women to lead the way, and yes some women are far from innocent in displaying their internalised misogyny it's shocking.

The fact it's 2017 and STILL victims of sexual assault are treated like criminals themselves

"What were you wearing?"

"How much did you have to drink?"

"Why didn't you get a cab?, why didn't you call a cab instead of flagging one down?"

And my personal 'favourite'

"Why didn't you say no? Fight him off?"

Most victims react from shock of which there are 3 now recognised reactions - fight, flight or freeze.

And shock is not a temporary thing it can last a long time.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough ."

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop.

I don’t think that is an unpopular view on this thread but it also needs for women to become increasingly aware how they collude with men’s behaviour.

I think women will lead the way on this...

I think the key issue is making it safe for people to speak out. For too long people have been silenced, not believed and put up with stuff. Not just women but look at child sex abuse with savile, child abuse Victoria climbie etc. When it comes to it, so many people knew yet there was a collective failure. "

Wholeheartedly agree

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The tea analogy. It's really that simple.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Nii5w2FaI

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We need men and women to lead the way, and yes some women are far from innocent in displaying their internalised misogyny it's shocking.

The fact it's 2017 and STILL victims of sexual assault are treated like criminals themselves

"What were you wearing?"

"How much did you have to drink?"

"Why didn't you get a cab?, why didn't you call a cab instead of flagging one down?"

And my personal 'favourite'

"Why didn't you say no? Fight him off?"

Most victims react from shock of which there are 3 now recognised reactions - fight, flight or freeze.

And shock is not a temporary thing it can last a long time. "

I think there are some fundamental challenges because of the patriarchal issues inherent im this work, which is why I think women will lead the way and men need to actively follow. However O have no problem with men being proactive too. Hence my own interest...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

"

What specifically are you rolling your eyes at?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is going to make me as popular as a turd in a swimming pool however.....

After all that has been revealed over the last few weeks, and indeed for many years before, if people can't see that we have to radically rethink the way some men behave then we are all part of this problem.

The sexual harassment and abuse has to stop.

I don’t think that is an unpopular view on this thread but it also needs for women to become increasingly aware how they collude with men’s behaviour.

I think women will lead the way on this...

I think the key issue is making it safe for people to speak out. For too long people have been silenced, not believed and put up with stuff. Not just women but look at child sex abuse with savile, child abuse Victoria climbie etc. When it comes to it, so many people knew yet there was a collective failure.

Agree with this, although more also needs to be made of male victims. There's an estimated 85,000 r@pes of women and 12,000 of men (R@pe Crisis), We need to be discussing the men as well."

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not just safe to speak out but also accepted.

Those r@pe crisis stats are tip of the iceberg sadly (for all genders), so, so many victims don't report yes out of fear (of their abuser, consequences) but also because they go into denial, don't want to upset family/friends (especially if abuser is in their circle), blame themselves, think others will blame them (which happens way more than it should).

The whole cultural response to a victim disclosing needs to change.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

It's impossible to tell with one side of the story. If he did just put his hand down her top uninvited, cold, then yeah that's assault. Personally i don't know any men that would take that risk, you'd have to be pretty thick in my opinion. Personally i wouldn't do that in a fucking swingers club to a naked woman so the mind boggles at how dumb you'd have to be to do it to a work colleague.

The most likely scenarios as i see it are:

- after hearing she was a swinger, he assumed she was easy, he took advantage of her and the initial touch was assault

- there was some context / foreplay that invited the initial touch. They had enjoyable sexual contact. He got a bit obsessive and that made her regret the whole thing. Consent does not need to be written and witnessed by a notary.

Either way, he doesn't come off well to be honest. It would have been far more sensible of him to ask if they could go to a swingers club together, outside of work.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

"

Delightful response - are you aware that MOST victims of r@pe are assaulted by spouse/partner/date?

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

What specifically are you rolling your eyes at?"

Specifically at the notion that consent for one time doesn't mean the woman has to put out again - and that husbands are harassing them by assuming they can have sex again . By this post the suggestion that husbands are assaulting their wives because they had sex once is laughable

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends. "

Also she may not have truly consented to the first advance because of the power issues.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

Delightful response - are you aware that MOST victims of r@pe are assaulted by spouse/partner/date? "

Well that's statistically untrue in many ways. In the broader world most rpe is committed by foreign soldiers, deliberately ordered by their commanders in most cases. In the west most rpe is male on male and in prison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo. "

R@pe Crisis is a charity for victims. With figures of nearly 100,000 per year in the U.K. alone I think crisis is quite apt.

Let's not Ray to minimise huh?

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By *razysexysingleWoman
over a year ago

Northampton

I’m sorry this is getting ridiculous.

Consent is about having the capacity and freedom to agree to have sex.

Now forgive me if I’ve missed it anywhere but was she on drink or drugs at the time, unconscious, suffering from a serious mental health problem or learning difficulty?

Her body language throughout has indicated to him that she is consenting. At no point has she said no nor taken the time to tell him in between these sexual encounters that she is not interested.

As someone has said he’s not a mind reader. She needs to take some responsibility for her own actions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

Delightful response - are you aware that MOST victims of r@pe are assaulted by spouse/partner/date?

Well that's statistically untrue in many ways. In the broader world most rpe is committed by foreign soldiers, deliberately ordered by their commanders in most cases. In the west most rpe is male on male and in prison. "

Can you provide figures for your assumptions?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo. "

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence "

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

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By *oubyLoverWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"It's impossible to tell with one side of the story. If he did just put his hand down her top uninvited, cold, then yeah that's assault. Personally i don't know any men that would take that risk, you'd have to be pretty thick in my opinion. Personally i wouldn't do that in a fucking swingers club to a naked woman so the mind boggles at how dumb you'd have to be to do it to a work colleague.. "

She had told him she'd been to a swingers party so he maybe thought fair game. You may not do that in a swinger club but others do - I've been touched at clubs without asking many times and I know I'm not the only one. It includes touching my tits, feeling up my leg, grabbing my arse, hand between my legs to my pussy in the hottub. Yes this is all without asking. One bloke did ask but had his hand on me before he finished speaking or I could say no. Not a one off, it happens regularly and even once 3 times in the same club visit with different people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The definition of harassment in this country anyway is an action that makes someone feel harassed. It's not the action that counts, it's how the person feels.

I would agree that the man was in the wrong from the narrative. She didn't invite sexual interaction. When he initially groped her without consent. He did so hoping she would respond positively not knowing she wanted that.

When she didn't resist she would have known he could use the comment she made against her. If he stated that her talking about swinging upset him then she would have been guilty of harassment.

She may have felt pressured for a number of reasons- him being upset and the consequences for her, feeling guilty that she may have misled him with the swingers comment, the consequences for him if she made a complaint.

Sometimes it's easier to go along with something and justify it to yourself, like saying it's no different from swinging even though in your heart you know it is.

His on going behaviour was selfish and created a pressure for her to be compliant. As pointed out already, he didn't day get that was good sex, how do you feel about me swapong my shifts around so we can door again? It also seems like he didn't make any attempt to move the relationship out of the workplace and away from the power imbalance.

If he genuinely liked her and wanted some kind of relationship (even a purely sexual one)he would have asked her for a meet instead of underhandedly swapping shifts.

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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago

Hillside desolate


"It's impossible to tell with one side of the story. If he did just put his hand down her top uninvited, cold, then yeah that's assault. Personally i don't know any men that would take that risk, you'd have to be pretty thick in my opinion. Personally i wouldn't do that in a fucking swingers club to a naked woman so the mind boggles at how dumb you'd have to be to do it to a work colleague..

She had told him she'd been to a swingers party so he maybe thought fair game. You may not do that in a swinger club but others do - I've been touched at clubs without asking many times and I know I'm not the only one. It includes touching my tits, feeling up my leg, grabbing my arse, hand between my legs to my pussy in the hottub. Yes this is all without asking. One bloke did ask but had his hand on me before he finished speaking or I could say no. Not a one off, it happens regularly and even once 3 times in the same club visit with different people."

So glad I don't go to clubs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here? "

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore

Exactly this

No not this, we need to communicate in a different way with each other.

So she enjoyed it the first couple of times , then didnt but went along with it before finally saying no more .

Seems fully consensual to me , and no harm done . He would assume she was happy and it's not his fault she took so long to tell him she had had enough .

Consent for one time does NOT equal consent forevermore - that's the kind of attitude of people who assault wives and girlfriends.

Delightful response - are you aware that MOST victims of r@pe are assaulted by spouse/partner/date?

Well that's statistically untrue in many ways. In the broader world most rpe is committed by foreign soldiers, deliberately ordered by their commanders in most cases. In the west most rpe is male on male and in prison.

Can you provide figures for your assumptions?"

Yes but i don't have the time or inclination right now, naturally soldiers don't like to keep records of their rpes nor is there an international police the incidents can be reported to and statistics gathered. So I'm not going to trawl the internet looking for rock solid sources for you nor wait for you to pick holes in the ones i have. If you don't believe that rpe is more common in the countries I've listed then we aren't talking about the same planet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The definition of harassment in this country anyway is an action that makes someone feel harassed. It's not the action that counts, it's how the person feels.

I would agree that the man was in the wrong from the narrative. She didn't invite sexual interaction. When he initially groped her without consent. He did so hoping she would respond positively not knowing she wanted that.

When she didn't resist she would have known he could use the comment she made against her. If he stated that her talking about swinging upset him then she would have been guilty of harassment.

She may have felt pressured for a number of reasons- him being upset and the consequences for her, feeling guilty that she may have misled him with the swingers comment, the consequences for him if she made a complaint.

Sometimes it's easier to go along with something and justify it to yourself, like saying it's no different from swinging even though in your heart you know it is.

His on going behaviour was selfish and created a pressure for her to be compliant. As pointed out already, he didn't day get that was good sex, how do you feel about me swapong my shifts around so we can door again? It also seems like he didn't make any attempt to move the relationship out of the workplace and away from the power imbalance.

If he genuinely liked her and wanted some kind of relationship (even a purely sexual one)he would have asked her for a meet instead of underhandedly swapping shifts. "

Great post

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

R@pe Crisis is a charity for victims. With figures of nearly 100,000 per year in the U.K. alone I think crisis is quite apt.

Let's not Ray to minimise huh?"

Interesting numbers. I guess we need to double the prison sizes in the UK then since there are a lot more criminals than we thought.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home."

Honestly thats one of the most pathetic answers I've ever seen. You just said words to the effect of 'i can't help the real crisis so i'll go stamp my feet at the imagined one here' of course you could help the real crisis, do you know how many charities are working in those areas. Don't tell me there's nothing you could do to help.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I’m sorry this is getting ridiculous.

Consent is about having the capacity and freedom to agree to have sex.

Now forgive me if I’ve missed it anywhere but was she on drink or drugs at the time, unconscious, suffering from a serious mental health problem or learning difficulty?

Her body language throughout has indicated to him that she is consenting. At no point has she said no nor taken the time to tell him in between these sexual encounters that she is not interested.

As someone has said he’s not a mind reader. She needs to take some responsibility for her own actions."

Have you read the rest of the thread? Her capacity to consent is impacted by the fact he's her boss! He has power (which he demonstrated) over her shifts, her personal safety, her career prospects, hell even whether she keeps her job. Which in the current economic climate is extremely worrying for those in low paid jobs.

It sounds like he was a nurse and she a HCA which is easy to get rid of and if you are dismissed from that kind of job it's VERY hard to get another.

To simplify

"Continue having sex with me or lose your career and income" can very easily be the implication, how does she really have total freedom to withdraw consent then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home.

Honestly thats one of the most pathetic answers I've ever seen. You just said words to the effect of 'i can't help the real crisis so i'll go stamp my feet at the imagined one here' of course you could help the real crisis, do you know how many charities are working in those areas. Don't tell me there's nothing you could do to help. "

I’ll go with pathetic then.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home.

Honestly thats one of the most pathetic answers I've ever seen. You just said words to the effect of 'i can't help the real crisis so i'll go stamp my feet at the imagined one here' of course you could help the real crisis, do you know how many charities are working in those areas. Don't tell me there's nothing you could do to help.

I’ll go with pathetic then. "

For the record, 420,480 rps in the congo last year. A country with a population just 20% bigger than the UK. And these are not the fecking "he touched my knee" ones that boosts the UK figures to get to some crazy number like 100,000, more than the entire UK prison population by the way.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home.

Honestly thats one of the most pathetic answers I've ever seen. You just said words to the effect of 'i can't help the real crisis so i'll go stamp my feet at the imagined one here' of course you could help the real crisis, do you know how many charities are working in those areas. Don't tell me there's nothing you could do to help.

I’ll go with pathetic then.

For the record, 420,480 rps in the congo last year. A country with a population just 20% bigger than the UK. And these are not the fecking "he touched my knee" ones that boosts the UK figures to get to some crazy number like 100,000, more than the entire UK prison population by the way."

R@pe crisis don't to my knowledge deal with anything but serious sexual assaults as their resources are limited.

As for comparing stats to prison population frankly there is a lot of people SHOULD be in prison that aren't, also sexual assaulters can assault more than one person and tend to do so.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Embarassing to see people talk about a rpe crisis in the UK. There aren't really stronger words than crisis so it really is an insult to the actual crisis in the world where rpe is used as a systematic weapon in places like papa new guinea, myanmar and the congo.

Roe is rpe no matter where on the world it occurs if we can learn to address it here closer to home we can learn to address it in other areas of the world where we have less influence

Scale matters. Do you deny it is happening an order of magnitude more in those countries than here?

Not at all. But that is outside my area of influence. I’m more interested in where I can take action closer to home.

Honestly thats one of the most pathetic answers I've ever seen. You just said words to the effect of 'i can't help the real crisis so i'll go stamp my feet at the imagined one here' of course you could help the real crisis, do you know how many charities are working in those areas. Don't tell me there's nothing you could do to help.

I’ll go with pathetic then.

For the record, 420,480 rps in the congo last year. A country with a population just 20% bigger than the UK. And these are not the fecking "he touched my knee" ones that boosts the UK figures to get to some crazy number like 100,000, more than the entire UK prison population by the way.

R@pe crisis don't to my knowledge deal with anything but serious sexual assaults as their resources are limited.

As for comparing stats to prison population frankly there is a lot of people SHOULD be in prison that aren't, also sexual assaulters can assault more than one person and tend to do so. "

Oh good, the figures are accurate and the congo is only 336% worse then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This thread shows one of the biggest and mostly deeply ingrained problems around this area.

Just because someone doesn't say no or goes along with you doesn't mean they consent.

People have this sense of entitlement. They think they are so great how could anyone not want them. They don't stop and think actually what are the power dynamics here? How can I make sure this person is not feeling pressured? At no point in the initial story does it indicated he ever asked if she was consenting.

Everyone seems to agree he was not a mind reader, so why didn't he think and check? There are so many potential reasons why someone might not be able to say no. Triggered ptsd, fear, low self esteem, some external need unrelated to the sex (loneliness for example).

There is as much responsibility to ensure you have consent, If not more so, than the responsibility to clearly communicate you are not consenting.

The campaigns are all about the fact if people took proper steps to ensure they had consent there would be a lot less assault. I'm pretty sure there are a good proportion of the guilty who genuinely do not know or understand what they did wrong. That is no consolation to their victim though is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imo if you get it, embrace and accept your fit as fuck ??......??

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"This thread shows one of the biggest and mostly deeply ingrained problems around this area.

Just because someone doesn't say no or goes along with you doesn't mean they consent.

People have this sense of entitlement. They think they are so great how could anyone not want them. They don't stop and think actually what are the power dynamics here? How can I make sure this person is not feeling pressured? At no point in the initial story does it indicated he ever asked if she was consenting.

Everyone seems to agree he was not a mind reader, so why didn't he think and check? There are so many potential reasons why someone might not be able to say no. Triggered ptsd, fear, low self esteem, some external need unrelated to the sex (loneliness for example).

There is as much responsibility to ensure you have consent, If not more so, than the responsibility to clearly communicate you are not consenting.

The campaigns are all about the fact if people took proper steps to ensure they had consent there would be a lot less assault. I'm pretty sure there are a good proportion of the guilty who genuinely do not know or understand what they did wrong. That is no consolation to their victim though is it. "

Maybe it’s just me , but she at no point tried to stop him the first couple of times , nor indeed up to the point that she told hiim she had had enough . Far from it as I see it , she enjoyed it too . I kind of get your point about how there may be a multitude of reasons why she went ahead with it if it actually wasn’t what she wanted , but if he felt she wasn’t happy he surely would have sensed it . So isn’t it fair to say she was happy ? After the first and second times , she was aware he was changing his shifts to be with her . Still she made no objection . He would genuinely think she was as happy with things as he was .

This has turned into a case against him , and even men in general , whereupon he could be having sex without consent if a woman doesn’t pass a consent test first !!!!

Sex for most of us is an enjoyable experience , especially swingers who enjoy nsa sex . Indeed , the vast majority of relationships see the partners enjoy consensual sex as part of a healthy relationship . The story we see on this thread is being blown out of all proportion . They both enjoyed the thrill of the sex to begin with , then she felt uncomfortable , told him , and it finished . End of story .

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By *razysexysingleWoman
over a year ago

Northampton


"I’m sorry this is getting ridiculous.

Consent is about having the capacity and freedom to agree to have sex.

Now forgive me if I’ve missed it anywhere but was she on drink or drugs at the time, unconscious, suffering from a serious mental health problem or learning difficulty?

Her body language throughout has indicated to him that she is consenting. At no point has she said no nor taken the time to tell him in between these sexual encounters that she is not interested.

As someone has said he’s not a mind reader. She needs to take some responsibility for her own actions.

Have you read the rest of the thread? Her capacity to consent is impacted by the fact he's her boss! He has power (which he demonstrated) over her shifts, her personal safety, her career prospects, hell even whether she keeps her job. Which in the current economic climate is extremely worrying for those in low paid jobs.

It sounds like he was a nurse and she a HCA which is easy to get rid of and if you are dismissed from that kind of job it's VERY hard to get another.

To simplify

"Continue having sex with me or lose your career and income" can very easily be the implication, how does she really have total freedom to withdraw consent then? "

Yes I have read the whole post thank you.

You have made many assumptions within your interpretation of this incident.

At no point has he used his position to force her to consent to having sex. She could have withdrawn her consent at any time and she has chosen not to infact actually enjoyed it until she’s decided the situation is not for her and ends it which it appears from the OP has happened without causing any issues for her in work or otherwise.

Obviously this should not have occurred during work time and both are committing offences there within company behaviour policies but to suggest that consent is an issue is ludicrous and certainly would not constitute a criminal offence in this instance.

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By *thwiltsm OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

I didn’t mention in the first post that after the second time she did hint at being uncomfortable by saying we really shouldn’t be doing this but he would just say things like oh come on, nobody’s going to find out etc.

It was a long time ago though so was something she just boxed away in her mind as a bad experience, lesson learned, wouldn’t let it happen again.

It all came out again recently though as it turns out the guy had several of these what he described as “flings” and his wife found out.

She got all the names out of him then stalked them on Facebook to find out who their partners were and told the husbands if there were any what their wives had been up to at work.

The lady in the post is having relationship troubles now, that’s how I heard the story, I know the husband is a nice guy but like many on here can’t understand why she didn’t just tell him to clear off in the first place

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By *lkDomWhtSubBiCpleCouple
over a year ago

Somewhere / Everywhere /Kinksville


"Have to add she’s not looking to report him or prove anything, just told me about a regrettable situation she ended up in

Maybe consider it a valuable lesson learned, then? Getting involved in 'things' at work has a tendency to end in tears,in my experience."

it’s not a good mix

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Still she made no objection . He would genuinely think she was as happy with things as he was .

"

My exact point is that he shouldn't just think she was happy. If you haven't checked you don't know. If someone is going along with something because they are afraid of the consequences of saying no they aren't necessarily going to lie there crying and not participating. It gives a sense of control to participate. Also just because you don't want to do some thing or are coerced in to it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

Things get all twisted up like that.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


" like many on here can’t understand why she didn’t just tell him to clear off in the first place"

Well, like many others here have said, it can be hard to tell someone to clear off in a work environment if they're senior to you and you suspect they'll make life difficult if they don't get what they want.

Not saying either way whether this guy would or would not have made things difficult, but generally that's why people need to be very very careful (at least) about propositioning colleagues below them in the work hierarchy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having sex with a colleague is in general a bad idea, especially if that person could make your position untenable if you don't carry on with what you started.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"I didn’t mention in the first post that after the second time she did hint at being uncomfortable by saying we really shouldn’t be doing this but he would just say things like oh come on, nobody’s going to find out etc.

It was a long time ago though so was something she just boxed away in her mind as a bad experience, lesson learned, wouldn’t let it happen again.

It all came out again recently though as it turns out the guy had several of these what he described as “flings” and his wife found out.

She got all the names out of him then stalked them on Facebook to find out who their partners were and told the husbands if there were any what their wives had been up to at work.

The lady in the post is having relationship troubles now, that’s how I heard the story, I know the husband is a nice guy but like many on here can’t understand why she didn’t just tell him to clear off in the first place"

He's a bad employee at the very least

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn’t mention in the first post that after the second time she did hint at being uncomfortable by saying we really shouldn’t be doing this but he would just say things like oh come on, nobody’s going to find out etc.

"

Hinting is open to interpretation, mixed signals being given.

I've said on numerous occasions - "we shouldn't be doing this" - I was referring to the place not the actual act.

If she had stated - I do not want to have sex here or anywhere else with you it's making me uncomfortable - might have had a different outcome.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Again people are assuming that her not saying no = consent, it doesn't.

He had the power at all times, not her.

Several are saying basically "why didn't she say no?" "Why didn't she fight him off?"

The point is she didn't feel age could.

As for enjoying it, a physiological response does not mean it was ok, did you know even victims of very violent sexual assaults can experience orgasm as an involuntary physiological response? Male and female victims. It's yet another thing that makes victims reluctant to report and perpetrators fool themselves they did nothing wrong.

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By *razysexysingleWoman
over a year ago

Northampton

Anyway Zzzzzzzzz

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By *igblackdomTV/TS
over a year ago

West Midlands


"Its getting to the point that man and women cant interact anymore"

Wonder if that would've been your view if you'd had a seriously ill relative on the ward.

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