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The end of Men and Women?

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton

So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......"

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?"

I think sufficient choices for gender should be given but I think it's nuts to make the whole question voluntary. Surely it undermines the whole expensive process of the Census, to gather statistics. Healthcare planning, state pension planning, all sorts of areas use the Census data.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?

I think sufficient choices for gender should be given but I think it's nuts to make the whole question voluntary. Surely it undermines the whole expensive process of the Census, to gather statistics. Healthcare planning, state pension planning, all sorts of areas use the Census data."

Do people who consider themselves trans not deserve a statistic or something? Seems to make more sense to me to add an option such as 'other' so that people who don't identify as male or female have something to put. That makes it more accurate, rather than less, surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?

I think sufficient choices for gender should be given but I think it's nuts to make the whole question voluntary. Surely it undermines the whole expensive process of the Census, to gather statistics. Healthcare planning, state pension planning, all sorts of areas use the Census data.

Do people who consider themselves trans not deserve a statistic or something? Seems to make more sense to me to add an option such as 'other' so that people who don't identify as male or female have something to put. That makes it more accurate, rather than less, surely?"

OP clarified he doesn't disagree with that aspect (it's why I questioned) but he's querying the idea of making the selection voluntary overall.

I'm still weighing up the arguments myself on the voluntary aspect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?

I think sufficient choices for gender should be given but I think it's nuts to make the whole question voluntary. Surely it undermines the whole expensive process of the Census, to gather statistics. Healthcare planning, state pension planning, all sorts of areas use the Census data.

Do people who consider themselves trans not deserve a statistic or something? Seems to make more sense to me to add an option such as 'other' so that people who don't identify as male or female have something to put. That makes it more accurate, rather than less, surely?

OP clarified he doesn't disagree with that aspect (it's why I questioned) but he's querying the idea of making the selection voluntary overall.

I'm still weighing up the arguments myself on the voluntary aspect."

Although for me, I think there should always be a prefer not to say box, which means I guess I'm in favour of it being voluntary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn't there an 'other' or 'would rather not say' gender box on most Equal Opportunities forms already? Or is it just the sexual orientation section which has that option?

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?"

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example "

Do you think the numbers of piss-takers would be that high to skew something like that?

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example

Do you think the numbers of piss-takers would be that high to skew something like that? "

Who knows how many would take the piss and how many would simply choose not to answer? What is a fact is that we'd no longer have meaningful reliable statistics on gender numbers for planning purposes. The Census only exists to supply said statistics to the planners

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

First off, I think you're talking about sex, not gender.

Secondly, I see value in knowing people's sex where I see less value in knowing their gender (in this regard I mean for official records).

I don't think it should be optional. It's an important bit of information. Just add an optional gender category.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example

Do you think the numbers of piss-takers would be that high to skew something like that? "

The number of non practising Jedi’s is proof enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example

Do you think the numbers of piss-takers would be that high to skew something like that?

Who knows how many would take the piss and how many would simply choose not to answer? What is a fact is that we'd no longer have meaningful reliable statistics on gender numbers for planning purposes. The Census only exists to supply said statistics to the planners "

What were the arguments for making it voluntary, in your reading, if that's the case?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"First off, I think you're talking about sex, not gender.

Secondly, I see value in knowing people's sex where I see less value in knowing their gender (in this regard I mean for official records).

I don't think it should be optional. It's an important bit of information. Just add an optional gender category."

Now I'm being the slow one today! Thanks C. I got confuddled (still poorly!) yes yes yes - gender optional and sex not. I'm going for a snooze.

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example

Do you think the numbers of piss-takers would be that high to skew something like that?

Who knows how many would take the piss and how many would simply choose not to answer? What is a fact is that we'd no longer have meaningful reliable statistics on gender numbers for planning purposes. The Census only exists to supply said statistics to the planners

What were the arguments for making it voluntary, in your reading, if that's the case? "

I'm not making that argument, The Office for National Statistics are proposing making the question optional. They have already rejected adding a "Other" box as set out in OP (which seems to me to be the most sensible approach)

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By *ohnaronMan
over a year ago

london

There should be 4 tick boxes -

N.B. Do not tick if surgically

removed.

Cunt

Willy

Arsole

None of the above

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"There should be 4 tick boxes -

N.B. Do not tick if surgically

removed.

Cunt

Willy

Arsole

None of the above"

Hmm, I'm liking this, but who has had their arsehole removed?

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"There should be 4 tick boxes -

N.B. Do not tick if surgically

removed.

Cunt

Willy

Arsole

None of the above

Hmm, I'm liking this, but who has had their arsehole removed? "

Stoma patients

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I tried to self identify as a woman at the gym but they still wouldn't let me in the ladies changing rooms. I think it was the huge boner that gave it away..

Perhaps for census purposes they should just ask for your biological birth gender..

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women."

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!"

It seems silly to me. Like you say, census data is incredibly useful for all kinds of things, strategic needs assessments amongst them. People will really be shooting themselves and their communities in the foot, and get less services as a result, if they chose not to answer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!"

Fucking snowflakes everywhere. Male. Female. Other. Job done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I can declare my self female?

Does that also make my love of the furry cup a lesbian too?

If it becomes a voluntary question it's no longer a criminal offence to answer incorrectly. So we might end up planning for social care or capacity for breast and prostrate cancers incorrectly. For example "

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By *p4funCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!

Fucking snowflakes everywhere. Male. Female. Other. Job done. "

agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!

Fucking snowflakes everywhere. Male. Female. Other. Job done. "

What's wrong with Male, Female, Trans?

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By *rightonCheeky OP   Man
over a year ago

Brighton


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!

Fucking snowflakes everywhere. Male. Female. Other. Job done.

What's wrong with Male, Female, Trans?

"

I'm no expert but would somebody who is non binary say they are not trans and so on? Other seems to be a reasonable approach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't think it should be optional, but there should be another box, for trans or other. I don't she how that homogenises trans people anymore than the male and female boxes homogenises men and women.

I agree totally. Man, Woman or Other and still a compulsory question seems entirely sensible to me.

But the ONS appears to have rejected that option and come up with some half baked voluntary thing to avoid the risk of offending anybody ??!

Fucking snowflakes everywhere. Male. Female. Other. Job done.

What's wrong with Male, Female, Trans?

I'm no expert but would somebody who is non binary say they are not trans and so on? Other seems to be a reasonable approach."

My thoughts too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?"

Gender is biological. It’s not something you choose.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sorry but gender is a choice that is made for you while still in the womb. You can't just change it by ticking a different box. If a person is trans then why can't they just tick the box that they identify as or have had surgery to become.

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By *achealTV/TS
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Well boys are boys girls are girls and love is universal xx be what you are unlabeled in classified and free to chose xx

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By *ohnaronMan
over a year ago

london

Every one should provide a full genome listing. Debretts won't like it but the Child Support Agency will have a field day.

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By *he Secret Tea PartyCouple
over a year ago

London

I don't get the 'other' option and how it can marginalise/

A transgender woman is a woman. And a transgender man is a man

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......"
Pretty stupid,how can you plan schools,etc without knowing these things complete loonacy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So I'm reading in the Sunday Papers that the Office for National Statistics is consulting on making your gender a voluntary question on the next Census in 2021.

Previously the only voluntary question was your religion. (Jedi anyone?)

An option to add "other" alongside male or female was rejected as it would "homogenise Trans people and differentiate them from the rest of society"

What do you think? Political Correctness taken too far or fair and reasonable in the modern world?

I think it's nuts personally ......

There should be the options for people to self-select their gender, so should include trans and an option to self-describe and a prefer not to say.

What specifically do you think is nuts? And why?

Gender is biological. It’s not something you choose. "

No, that's sex. Gender identity may not always align with sex. Gender role and gender identity might be worth reading up on. It is confusing when the terms can often be used interchangeably or if you've never interacted with someone that doesn't align their gender in binary terms or been exposed to the topic. I even got myself tripped up on this thread as OP is talking as if gender is sex, and I got confuddled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess it depends on why they're asking the question in the first place.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think it's good that thought is being given to this, as the binary gender concept is outdated. It's not political correctness, it's sensitivity to the people and culture we are within.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's good that thought is being given to this, as the binary gender concept is outdated. It's not political correctness, it's sensitivity to the people and culture we are within. "

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

2 separate questions should be listed

Sex at birth : M F I

Gender now: voluntary answer.

That would allow for medical planning mentioned, not sure how this affects school planning & similar as any person can be a parent, and everything else is not affected by gender.

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