FabSwingers.com forum: Is it acceptable?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Well it got me thinking is it right that people can post this on profiles here....it's not that long ago that pubs had signs saying "No blacks No dogs and No irish". Now that is totally unacceptable now so why is it allowed on here?

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's just a way to reduce messages?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think it's just a way to reduce messages? "

But do you think it's acceptable?

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

It's ok to say vwe only ..BBC only ... Must be taller than 5,11 .. younger than 55 ..., people surely should be able to state their preferences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes it is acceptable,

Just as it's acceptable for people to have a stated age range,or specify if they are after a male or female.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is called preferences and of course they should be allowed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's just a way to reduce messages?

But do you think it's acceptable? "
guess so, doesn't bother me. But there's better ways of going about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but then they filter themselves by writing this kind of crap on their profiles

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's ok to say vwe only ..BBC only ... Must be taller than 5,11 .. younger than 55 ..., people surely should be able to state their preferences

We know profiles state all of that...but is it acceptable on a race of people...bloody hell not all have big cocks.

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By *aelawMan
over a year ago

Paisley

"From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts "

When it comes to attraction i can accept that some people can me say more attracted to black men and less attracted to Asian men just as much as people can be more attracted to larger women and less so with thin women. I accept that it's all about aesthetics and how peiple are wired as far as their attraction is concerned.

Everyone is different and everyone is allowed to be that way when it comes to sex and attraction in general. If they put It on their profiles they cut down the messages from those they are not attracted to, just like me putting down that I am more attracted to larger women. Preference is preference don't let it bother you is what I say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there's a big difference between a business refusing custom on grounds like those you've mentioned and an individual laying their preferences in a sexual partner out there. Is it better to be so blunt about it and leave no room for doubt or just turn down everyone within a given group? People have every right to turn down a sexual partner for any reason they want.

Personally we would never go down that route because for us attraction is far more about the person than skin colour (and even if I was going to rule out a whole group I do find that blanket refusal uncomfortable) but I do have a type and saying no x or y would without doubt reduce messages.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes it is acceptable,

Just as it's acceptable for people to have a stated age range,or specify if they are after a male or female."

Yes I can get the age thing but not openly stating a race on a profile

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shouldn't everything really be filterable. Age sex race smoker married bareback etc

After all we are talking about who we wish to share bodily fluids and intimate parts of ourselves. It isnt about being pc its about sexual attraction

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

It's acceptable , it's only a personal preference , it's not personal to anyone in particular , just another filter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes it is acceptable,

Just as it's acceptable for people to have a stated age range,or specify if they are after a male or female.

Yes I can get the age thing but not openly stating a race on a profile

What's the difference?

It makes more sense than filtering by age,someone is always going to be white/brown/black no matter how old they are,so job done,mass filter in place

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Shouldn't everything really be filterable. Age sex race smoker married bareback etc

After all we are talking about who we wish to share bodily fluids and intimate parts of ourselves. It isnt about being pc its about sexual attraction"

Maybe your right... as it would be better that way if the filters done it and then stopped the wording on profiles

Which I think is unacceptable in this day and age.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have beard. There's plenty of profile saying "no beards" or "clean shaven only" I simply don't message them. It's a preference. People have them. You're allowed them. Yes, it's acceptable.

However I do wonder how how it would go down the other way around?

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By *arciocialWoman
over a year ago

Leicester

I've known many people to state they don't find black men or Asian men attractive, but through going to clubs many have found there are actually some they do find attractive. They have just gone by those they have seen in the street or whatever and decided they don't find them attractive, but then one comes along that they do and whilst they find white men more attractive they now know there are other ethnicities they find attractive too.

Personally, I don't see why people need to have it on their profile it's simple enough to say no thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Meh

I don't really care.

It's the profiles that hide what they don't want - or don't say anything at all are the ones you need to watch out for!

Let the bigots speak.

Then you know who to avoid x

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"I've known many people to state they don't find black men or Asian men attractive, but through going to clubs many have found there are actually some they do find attractive. They have just gone by those they have seen in the street or whatever and decided they don't find them attractive, but then one comes along that they do and whilst they find white men more attractive they now know there are other ethnicities they find attractive too.

Personally, I don't see why people need to have it on their profile it's simple enough to say no thanks. "

Indeed. I think it's also a point that a lot of people will not message people who openly state exclusions on the basis of ethnicity. You may not be a racist, but people will suspect you might be.

Seems to me best just to ignore any messages from people you don't find attractive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a preference same as height sex age etc so perfectly acceptable, if it's not to some they should remove the rest of filters age etc as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm glad people do it.

It makes it easier to avoid meeting them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is called preferences and of course they should be allowed."

This.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i have several things i like /dislike - i dont list any of them -

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

The site won't want to be seen as racist , but it would be better if members could choose races / colour as preferences or not as the case may be . So upon joining one ticks the boxes of Caucasian , Asian , black , or something like this . By not ticking a box , they are automatically blocked and then we wouldn't have to read the profiles of the bigots who state they don't want messages from a particular race .

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By *a Fee VerteWoman
over a year ago

Limbo

I think what it is, is that when people state preferences such as height, body size or age, those criteria could apply to anyone, no matter what their ethnic background is. But when you see profiles which dismiss *entire* ethnic groups - in which there will be an infinite variety of different looking people of all shapes, sizes, with different skin colours, physical features and personalities - you find yourself wondering (or at least I do) why, exactly, they've been so particular. Are they really saying that amongst 1000s (on Fab that is) of individuals in a certain group, there couldn't possibly be even one or two people they might find attractive? It kind of smacks to me of the old, clichéd and unacceptable attitude/belief of 'they all look the same' and/or that all (insert racial group of choice here) must possess the same unattractive attributes or attitudes. Racism, in other words.

I probably haven't articulated the above very well ... but seeing racial preferences expressed makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and I've simply tried to explain why. We can all decline anyone who contacts us, we're not even obliged to respond to any message we don't want to so surely it's better to do that than cause offence with questionable 'preferences'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think what it is, is that when people state preferences such as height, body size or age, those criteria could apply to anyone, no matter what their ethnic background is. But when you see profiles which dismiss *entire* ethnic groups - in which there will be an infinite variety of different looking people of all shapes, sizes, with different skin colours, physical features and personalities - you find yourself wondering (or at least I do) why, exactly, they've been so particular. Are they really saying that amongst 1000s (on Fab that is) of individuals in a certain group, there couldn't possibly be even one or two people they might find attractive? It kind of smacks to me of the old, clichéd and unacceptable attitude/belief of 'they all look the same' and/or that all (insert racial group of choice here) must possess the same unattractive attributes or attitudes. Racism, in other words.

Everyone is entitled to their preferences at the end of the day, no matter what that may be in this day and age.

I have mine and don't apologise for it.

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By *arciocialWoman
over a year ago

Leicester

"It's a preference same as height sex age etc so perfectly acceptable, if it's not to some they should remove the rest of filters age etc as well"

I have all my filters on because I have to find someone attractive and I can't tell that from a picture. I have an age range to prevent stupid amount of messages, I've met people that are older than my top age limit because I found them attractive. But as I now prevent anyone from messaging I guess it would matter what my age range was set at.

I've known people to alter their preferences, or claim their preferences are flexible, but then that never seems to be the case when ethnicity preference is questioned on here, they just get told it's a preference. So why do the majority of people allow for flexibility on all preferences except ethnicity....

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

You can't help who you fancy, which is why it's not the same as refusing service in a pub, or a job.

However, if you write a profile that is a list of demands, racial or otherwise, expect me to avoid messaging you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it saves the undesirable people the time wasted messaging people who don't want them. I wouldn't message a profile saying no big people or mingers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree. But this has been debated for years and those that have those views will simply use the 'preferences' argument to excuse their ignorance and nothing will change.

So I've taken the view that I'm happier for people to reveal their nature in order to easily avoid them.

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By *jturboMan
over a year ago

batley

It was acceptable in the 80'S

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By *ineMan
over a year ago

In cave behind a waterfall on a hill

Wanders out of man cave..

Scratches head...

Did I take a wrong turn somewhere...

Have the forums moved from fabswingers to...

Do it my way or else aka...

bigotswingers dot down right politically correct dot do it the way I say dot where is the tolerance...

Wanders back into man cave shaking head...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

I agree. But this has been debated for years and those that have those views will simply use the 'preferences' argument to excuse their ignorance and nothing will change.

So I've taken the view that I'm happier for people to reveal their nature in order to easily avoid them."

I think when it comes to sexual attraction, the "preferences" argument is valid.

I know someone (ex fabs these days) who once got assaulted, it just so happened that her attacker was black. She knows, rationally, that all black men are not like that, and is not predjudiced, and yet, she no longer fancies black guys. In my eyes, this does not make her a racist.

That aside, I couldn't possibly pin down why I fancy the people I fancy, It's probably a combination of things. I know I've never been attracted to anyone from the far east, no idea why...Pretty sure I'm not racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes it is acceptable,

Just as it's acceptable for people to have a stated age range,or specify if they are after a male or female.

Yes I can get the age thing but not openly stating a race on a profile

"
why .. it's just a preference.. some ask for black only..some white.. some dont care.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

Oh, and one thing, if you say, "no people of ethnicity x", you are not expressing a preference at all. If you like two things, but one better than the other, you prefer it. If you like one thing but not the other saying you prefer one to the other makes no sense.

What you are in fact doing is stating an exclusion, not a preference. Let's at least be honest about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sorry I took a phone call and couldn't reply to the posts (I bet your all saying thank got to that

) But I've read through all your replies and it's a mixed bag...but we are all entitled to our views. But mine is I think I'll always find it unacceptable to have it on a profile...whether the answer to that is built in tick boxes...well I'm still unsure on that one too

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By *arciocialWoman
over a year ago

Leicester

I wonder if the "I had a bad experience" "reason" would work the same if that experience was from a white man.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)"

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I constantly have messages from people that state "no blacks no asians"

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"I wonder if the "I had a bad experience" "reason" would work the same if that experience was from a white man. "

Course it would - I know women who don't like to have sex with any men (although they claim to be bisexual) because of a bad experience with one man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?"

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts "

by waiting to mention it I suppose you could say your wasting thier time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes."

so straight and gay people are ignorant for not being attracted to everyone?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes."

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

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By *arciocialWoman
over a year ago

Leicester

"I wonder if the "I had a bad experience" "reason" would work the same if that experience was from a white man.

Course it would - I know women who don't like to have sex with any men (although they claim to be bisexual) because of a bad experience with one man. "

I only ask as that seems to be a lot of women's excuse to why try won't meet blacks or Asians, but never seen someone state they won't meet white men because of a bad experience.

Saying they won't meet men because of a bad experience, I'd say is understandable. But saying they won't meet black men because of a bad experience is tarring them all with the same brush, ethnicity wasn't to blame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so straight and gay people are ignorant for not being attracted to everyone?

My sexual attraction starts with the eyes.. and it's green or blue eyes that get me... So that excludes a lot of guys..

I state what I do want rather than dont.

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By *cot611Man
over a year ago

carterton

please give a thought to all those out there that are not yet in a position to develop preferences other than male or female. theres plenty of us who cant afford to be picky really..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?"

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

I don't understand how anybody can rule out all black people simply on account of their skin colour (because they all look the same?!). To me it reveals something I don't like in people. I'm happy with that

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

God help us if the PC brigade are allowed to have an input on a swingers site.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

Because they don't fancy them.

See: not rational.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

Because they don't fancy them.

See: not rational. "

On the basis of their skin colour.

See: Fucking ignorant.

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By *arciocialWoman
over a year ago

Leicester

How can anyone state they don't fancy someone based on their skin colour, have they met them all?

The majority of people I've met have been white, but I have met a black and Asian man as I found them attractive. Just because I have found more white men attractive doesn't mean I'm going to rule out an entire ethnicity because of it.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

Because they don't fancy them.

See: not rational.

On the basis of their skin colour.

See: Fucking ignorant."

Why?

Why is it any different to hair coulor or body shape or smile or smell?

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By *adame BWoman
over a year ago

C'est moi Boudoir

Exactly, site rules state no response, no interest so if it's stated in the profile then it is unacceptable. Also the sentence looking for hot people bugs me... I know it's not in the same league as what the op has said but as well as unacceptable, it's rude. Have your preferences politely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because they are universal.

I don't generally fancy fat, hairy, tall people.

That can apply to people anywhere.

Ruling out all white people is entirely different. All white people don't look the same, therefore you could only have an issue with their skin colour. Why would that be?

To be fair maybe some people really do find a skin colour alone unattractive, but I can't empathise with that because to me it makes no sense.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Because they are universal.

I don't generally fancy fat, hairy, tall people.

That can apply to people anywhere.

Ruling out all white people is entirely different. All white people don't look the same, therefore you could only have an issue with their skin colour. Why would that be?

To be fair maybe some people really do find a skin colour alone unattractive, but I can't empathise with that because to me it makes no sense."

Some don't fancy people of certain hair coulors, how is that any different?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because they don't fancy them.

See: not rational. "

There is no convincing some people. They are just in need of being offended by people's sexual preferences..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which is better?

a. Someone who is clear and puts on their profile that they will not meet someone of a certain ethnicity?

b. A racist who hates all people of a certain ethnicity but keeps quiet about it?

It is not acceptable for someone to actively disciminate against anyone else because of their race, I am sure that we all agree on that. However, if someone is only attracted to a certain type of person, how do you express it without causing offence?

Saying Whites only is as bad as saying no blacks. However saying BBC only is perfectly acceptable in certain circles.

I will meet people I connect with, irrespective of their cultural heritage or ethnicity. How can I say that without sounding pc or desperate?

I think it is the circle that cannot be squared until we can accept that we are all equal, we are attracted to whoever we are attracted to. As long as we aren't arseholes to one another, there is room in fab for everyone to get along.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well as I advised much earlier up - it's been debated to death and it'll make fuck all difference doing it again.

If people rule out an entire ethic group, I'm of the opinion they're really fucking ignorant and I'd rather not meet them.

If they kindly express that view on their profile, I'm grateful

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Which is better?

a. Someone who is clear and puts on their profile that they will not meet someone of a certain ethnicity?

b. A racist who hates all people of a certain ethnicity but keeps quiet about it?

Saying Whites only is as bad as saying no blacks. However saying BBC only is perfectly acceptable in certain circles.

I will meet people I connect with, irrespective of their cultural heritage or ethnicity. How can I say that without sounding pc or desperate?

See; of all these the BBC preference strikes me as the most racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well as I advised much earlier up - it's been debated to death and it'll make fuck all difference doing it again.

If people rule out an entire ethic group, I'm of the opinion they're really fucking ignorant and I'd rather not meet them.

If they kindly express that view on their profile, I'm grateful

"
I rule out about 99% of people because they don't fit what I want sexually .. it's entirely your right to have an opinion.

I dont play with black or Asian guys.. or darker white guys to be fair because im like a ghost with how pale I am and have never found the contrast appealing... ironically the very thing a friend of mine finds a turn on with black guys she meets. She finds the guys I like to pale and bland for her.

I used to organise a black for white night.. the guys going knew I had no sexual interest in them but we still had a good giggle and they respected me and my preference.

Takes all sorts... and I have been doing this long enough to know what I like... we could obviously to into the psychological of what makes people have the preferences they have.. but that would be another thread

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By *eliz NelsonMan
over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

Personally I think it is unacceptable, you can have those viewpoints, but do not publicise it

It does come across as being judgemental.

Preferences re age/height, that is a completely different matter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Which is better?

a. Someone who is clear and puts on their profile that they will not meet someone of a certain ethnicity?

b. A racist who hates all people of a certain ethnicity but keeps quiet about it?

Saying Whites only is as bad as saying no blacks. However saying BBC only is perfectly acceptable in certain circles.

I will meet people I connect with, irrespective of their cultural heritage or ethnicity. How can I say that without sounding pc or desperate?

I don't really care what people say on their profiles. Better to be honest if they feel strongly about not meeting certain people.

I don't see the difference between not wanting to meet whole groups of people. Whether it's skin colour, accent, sexuality, whether they have hair.

It's sex. Saying that people can't choose who they fuck is just shit. It says a lot more about them than they realise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I feel like there's bigotry towards TV's in here. I've seen people's comments be ignored, disparaged and derided... It happens to a new minority who slowly become a social norm.

I think society's hierarchical nature means it needs minorities to keep itself ticking along lol.

As hurtful as outright rejection is and how much it must smart to be visually slapped in the face, with a personal rejection against "your kind" whilst you are innocently looking through profiles, in the mood for fun... I think it's also a great service those people are doing by tanoi announcing they'll be unpleasant (to a lesser or greater degree dependant on their level of jugement) to talk to.

They're easier to avoid as you can just block them all and concentrate on socialising with more interactive people.

Personally I think dealing with establishing your identity at any age is an unsettling time all round, none of us handled it very well as teenagers, so TV transitioning after or before all that must have quite a lot to deal with?!... Though this is pure speculation on my part.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I think it is unacceptable, you can have those viewpoints, but do not publicise it

It does come across as being judgemental.

Preferences re age/height, that is a completely different matter"
sorry but I can not see what the difference is... if I like what I like it's a preference.

Preference and discrimination is a big difference

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By *eliz NelsonMan
over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"Personally I think it is unacceptable, you can have those viewpoints, but do not publicise it

It does come across as being judgemental.

Preferences re age/height, that is a completely different matter sorry but I can not see what the difference is... if I like what I like it's a preference.

Preference and discrimination is a big difference "

If a profile said, sorry! No blacks or Asians and men over 5'11' only please..

It is easy to understand/accept the preference for tall men, but blankly stating no black men or Asians, that is completely different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I think it is unacceptable, you can have those viewpoints, but do not publicise it

It does come across as being judgemental.

Preferences re age/height, that is a completely different matter sorry but I can not see what the difference is... if I like what I like it's a preference.

Preference and discrimination is a big difference

If a profile said, sorry! No blacks or Asians and men over 5'11' only please..

It is easy to understand/accept the preference for tall men, but blankly stating no black men or Asians, that is completely different"
why is it any different to only wanting tall men.

Or guys that only want women of a certain age or size ... its a sex site.. we have our attractions or turn offs... and for some that excludes many people.. some very few

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By *eedtheponyCouple
over a year ago

manchester

"It's ok to say vwe only ..BBC only ... Must be taller than 5,11 .. younger than 55 ..., people surely should be able to state their preferences

So we can't say we prefer non smokers shaven n clean only aswell.... Come on, this is a swingers site and if you can't talk straight on here where can you??

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Bloody phone keeps crashing...just typed a long reply out to steely and crash wouldn't fecking post...will try again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so straight and gay people are ignorant for not being attracted to everyone?

My sexual attraction starts with the eyes.. and it's green or blue eyes that get me... So that excludes a lot of guys..

I state what I do want rather than dont."

I've blue eyes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's my profile so can put what I want. My preference is I don't Asian guys. Simply my preference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's very hard for people who haven't dealt with on going discrimination to put themselves in the place of those having to deal with it.

Mostly, those that deal with discrimination day in day out are infinitely more sensitive to slurs of any kind... and it's a struggle for most to let it slid off their shoulders and know what battles to pick and choose to engage with... unfortunately in a lot of cases experience helps you to realise that other people's perceptions of you say more about them than you generally (unless you're being a dick 24/7 lol)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

wow so ignorant and prejudice...

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By *eliz NelsonMan
over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"It's ok to say vwe only ..BBC only ... Must be taller than 5,11 .. younger than 55 ..., people surely should be able to state their preferences

So we can't say we prefer non smokers shaven n clean only aswell.... Come on, this is a swingers site and if you can't talk straight on here where can you??"

Ok! Non smokers-I understand your rationale there, the smell etc

Shaven and Clean....obviously hygiene and comfort...

Black and Asian-what is the rationale there? I am not expecting an answer, just exploring the issue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Really want to meet a tall, sexy black man (= preference)

Would love to meet a sexy, Asian woman for ff fun (= preference)

Love to play with two sexy young blondes (= preference)

No Blacks or Asians (= ignorant)

So what about my friend who wasn't not attracted to black guys, but would consider asians (in the dame way she wouldf consider white guys). You think she is ignorant?

Yes.

Why? Who you fancy is not rational. I tend not to fancy people who are overweight. Am I a terrible person?

No.

But expressing a preference or desire is different from revealing a prejudice.

I don't fancy fat people of any ethnicity.

wow so ignorant and prejudice..."

Yep - openly fattist

Can we therefore call those others what they are? - racist.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Which is better?

a. Someone who is clear and puts on their profile that they will not meet someone of a certain ethnicity?

b. A racist who hates all people of a certain ethnicity but keeps quiet about it?

Saying Whites only is as bad as saying no blacks. However saying BBC only is perfectly acceptable in certain circles.

I will meet people I connect with, irrespective of their cultural heritage or ethnicity. How can I say that without sounding pc or desperate?

I don't really care what people say on their profiles. Better to be honest if they feel strongly about not meeting certain people.

I don't see the difference between not wanting to meet whole groups of people. Whether it's skin colour, accent, sexuality, whether they have hair.

It's sex. Saying that people can't choose who they fuck is just shit. It says a lot more about them than they realise. "

At the end of the day people always have choices...that is not what my options was about. It was about in this day and age stating them on a race only choice.

It is simply not needed...as someone has stated on here simply not replying to a message is a choice which must be better in this day and age to having bigots posting racist views on their profile.

This was originally longer..but I'm not taking the chance on my phone crashing again

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By *pforfun1234562016Couple
over a year ago

leamington spa

Pc people again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep - openly fattist

Can we therefore call those others what they are? - racist."

Omg really. Perhaps you should look up and educate yourself what racism is... not sure anywhere it says... " doesn't want to get jiggy".. there are im sure plenty of people whose reasons for their preference are racist but simply having a sexual preference doesn't make you one...

I saw my friends suffer at the hands of racists at school... got a few digs myself because apparently being their friends made me as bad... But they were my friends. Just because I dont want to have sexual relations or interactions with people that I have no sexual attraction too doesn't make me racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are plenty of racists who'll fk the races they openly dislike... Just like there are hypocrite politicians who'll verbally bash gays in public then have sex with rent boys in private.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can say..

No beards

No hairy pussies

No gingers

Nobody over 45

No single guys

No bi guys

No fat birds

No small cocks..

And only BBC's

So why not ... Say if you don't want to meet a certain race.

It ain't racist. Just a personal preference.

Or do we accuse the others of being beardist, ageist, singleist, fattist and small cockist?

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By *eal Deal PartiesWoman
over a year ago

"It is called preferences and of course they should be allowed."

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shame there isn't a filter for fakes or timewasters?

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By *eal Deal PartiesWoman
over a year ago

"Shame there isn't a filter for fakes or timewasters?"

Yes x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep - openly fattist

Can we therefore call those others what they are? - racist.

If the single factor that causes you to not find them attractive is their race, then.. um...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep - openly fattist

Can we therefore call those others what they are? - racist.

If the single factor that causes you to not find them attractive is their race, then.. um...

"
nope its the fact I like fair complexions and blue or green eyes... rules out plenty of white guys too.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts "

One (pubs etc.) is set up to provide seevices to the general public, the other (fab) is about a private intimate act.

One must be provided without discrimination, the other certainly must discriminate.

Discrimination has become a bad word, but lets remember it can also mean "to chose between". I discriminated between which I car I wanted to buy, which phone I chose, where I work, where I eat, what I eat etc.

I firmly believe that people who get to decide they do and do not have intimate sexual encounters with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cos this is all about you?

If you're just jumping all over stuff to rant about your own issues that makes it a bit tricky to keep on point.

Point I was raising was the difference between exercising legitimate preferences vs exposing an ignorant perspective.

If you seek pasty skinned people then good for you. Black albino good?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cos this is all about you?

If you're just jumping all over stuff to rant about your own issues that makes it a bit tricky to keep on point.

Point I was raising was the difference between exercising legitimate preferences vs exposing an ignorant perspective.

If you seek pasty skinned people then good for you. Black albino good?

"
no it's not me but about everyones right to a choice of their sexual partner.

And your choice of words on this reply speaks volumes. And obviously an albino wont have blue or green eyes. So nope. Btw I have been with guys I didn't fancy including black guys. I just decided it wasn't how i wanted to be so now meet less and only those I find attractive.

My choice.. My preference as it is your choice to think as you do.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts

One (pubs etc.) is set up to provide seevices to the general public, the other (fab) is about a private intimate act.

One must be provided without discrimination, the other certainly must discriminate.

I firmly believe that people who get to decide they do and do not have intimate sexual encounters with."

This is know...but the question was is it acceptable to put it on your profile?

There is simply no need for stating it in my opinion. I find it unnecessary and offensive. Do you list what you are mainly looking for...or concentrate on not what your looking for?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cos this is all about you?

If you're just jumping all over stuff to rant about your own issues that makes it a bit tricky to keep on point.

Point I was raising was the difference between exercising legitimate preferences vs exposing an ignorant perspective.

If you seek pasty skinned people then good for you. Black albino good?

no it's not me but about everyones right to a choice of their sexual partner.

My choice.. My preference as it is your choice to think as you do. "

Curious as to what volumes and what choice of words?

Am I supposed to describe pasty skin in a more sensitive way? (Is it something to be ashamed of?!) But isn't it all about contrast?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is simply no need for stating it in my opinion. I find it unnecessary and offensive. Do you list what you are mainly looking for...or concentrate on not what your looking for?"

If we see a profile staying not into large people. We simply pass it by. Not offended. If it says BBC wanted we obviously then pass it by. No offence taken etc

If someone states the want bi couples or bi guys. Again we move on.. or anything that isn't what we are.

I can't see why its unacceptable to be honest about what your looking for to fulfil sexual fantasies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cos this is all about you?

If you're just jumping all over stuff to rant about your own issues that makes it a bit tricky to keep on point.

Point I was raising was the difference between exercising legitimate preferences vs exposing an ignorant perspective.

If you seek pasty skinned people then good for you. Black albino good?

no it's not me but about everyones right to a choice of their sexual partner.

My choice.. My preference as it is your choice to think as you do.

Curious as to what volumes and what choice of words?

Am I supposed to describe pasty skin in a more sensitive way? (Is it something to be ashamed of?!) But isn't it all about contrast?

Pasty is derogatory... I dont get drawn into personal stuff on here. But will defend my right to sexual preferences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bollocks. And hilarious

Good night all.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"From reading another thread for filters on racial preferences.

Surely most men,tvs and maybe a few women have had knockbacks saying "your not what we are looking for"...would this not do here and put a stop to bigoted profiles?

Your thoughts

One (pubs etc.) is set up to provide seevices to the general public, the other (fab) is about a private intimate act.

One must be provided without discrimination, the other certainly must discriminate.

I firmly believe that people who get to decide they do and do not have intimate sexual encounters with.

This is know...but the question was is it acceptable to put it on your profile?

There is simply no need for stating it in my opinion. I find it unnecessary and offensive. Do you list what you are mainly looking for...or concentrate on not what your looking for?"

I think positive profiles are better than negative profiles. Some people have a big long list of negatives which can be a turn off. But I'm going to be honest and say that I look at pics before reading a profile. However, if people say that they are not looking to meet XYZ, then I don't really have an issue with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it acceptable to have this thread again?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Is it acceptable to have this thread again?

Point me to the bother one and I'll tell you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can all create our realities if we want to. You can choose to focus on all the shit you don't want to see which is what those people with negative profiles are doing = why the fk would you describe what you don't want to see as a permanent visual feature attached to your profile for all to see anyways?... Out of sight, out of mind and all that?!

Or you can focus on magnetising and high listing what you actually do want to experience out of life by the law of attraction.

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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago

Best Greggs in Cheshire East

It is acceptable to not be attracted to certain skin tones. It is not acceptable for someone else to call them racist because of that.

No asians is an interesting one as the continent probably contains the whole spectrum of skin tones.

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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago

Best Greggs in Cheshire East

"We can all create our realities if we want to. You can choose to focus on all the shit you don't want to see which is what those people with negative profiles are doing = why the fk would you describe what you don't want to see as a permanent visual feature attached to your profile for all to see anyways?... Out of sight, out of mind and all that?!

Or you can focus on magnetising and high listing what you actually do want to experience out of life by the law of attraction."

Your doing it again. Your talking sense!

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By *im and her 2017Couple
over a year ago

birmingham

If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles "

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

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By *nSeeNMan
over a year ago

Z'ha'dum

Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

Well it's the first time I've seen it...and have asked see any other ones to compare

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll never get why people feel the need to state their racial preferences on a pubic profile. It says to me that the person clearly lacks social awareness of the whole issue surrounding race that we see today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'll never get why people feel the need to state their racial preferences on a pubic profile. It says to me that the person clearly lacks social awareness of the whole issue surrounding race that we see today. "

Pubic

Obviously I meant public!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with."

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Pubic

Obviously I meant public! "

It's late and your looking at me so that

Is totally understandable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree. But this has been debated for years and those that have those views will simply use the 'preferences' argument to excuse their ignorance and nothing will change.

So I've taken the view that I'm happier for people to reveal their nature in order to easily avoid them.

I think when it comes to sexual attraction, the "preferences" argument is valid.

If a white man had assaulted her do you think she would have then had an aversion to all white men?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'"

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile."

Thats your choice

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By *nSeeNMan
over a year ago

Z'ha'dum

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair. "

True, but these type of Mexican stand off threads just wear me down

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair.

True, but these type of Mexican stand off threads just wear me down

Easy don't come in if you think it is repetitive to you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile."

Me neither! Why discriminate against a whole group of people!?

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By *nSeeNMan
over a year ago

Z'ha'dum

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair.

True, but these type of Mexican stand off threads just wear me down

Easy don't come in if you think it is repetitive to you

Ok, I'll leave you all to your circular debate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would prefer to tell an individual if they were not my type. I'm not against any colour. If I fancy them, I fancy them. I love Zayn Malik, Idris Elba and Jensen Ackles. So perhaps I'm not the best judge of character on what would be dubbed as racist. My knee jerk reaction is sometimes to think that the person may be ignorant or racist. Yet I know people who have friends of a different colour, despite not being physically attracted to said colour. It could genuinely be the laws of attraction. Though no doubt there will be some who have a more racist/prejuice reason behind their 'preference'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile.

Me neither! Why discriminate against a whole group of people!? "

They mightnt fancy black or asian people. Thats NOT racist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would prefer to tell an individual if they were not my type. I'm not against any colour. If I fancy them, I fancy them. I love Zayn Malik, Idris Elba and Jensen Ackles. So perhaps I'm not the best judge of character on what would be dubbed as racist. My knee jerk reaction is sometimes to think that the person may be ignorant or racist. Yet I know people who have friends of a different colour, despite not being physically attracted to said colour. It could genuinely be the laws of attraction. Though no doubt there will be some who have a more racist/prejuice reason behind their 'preference'."

Prejuice??? Never written that in my bloody life! Prejudice is what I meant

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By *ieman300Man
over a year ago

Best Greggs in Cheshire East

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair.

True, but these type of Mexican stand off threads just wear me down

Easy don't come in if you think it is repetitive to you

You would be sat replying to yourself if everyone took that attitude.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or it could be just down to them not fancying asian or black women or men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or it could be just down to them not fancying asian or black women or men."

That's what I just said

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile.

Me neither! Why discriminate against a whole group of people!?

They mightnt fancy black or asian people. Thats NOT racist "

But outing it on your profile...which is what my options was about....is a very fine line I think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Theres a mixed race couple on who have 'sorry no white males' i didnt read an think 'how dare they!' Its personal preference.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Sorry MD but this topic has been raised many times before.

So has every other single thread in the forums, to be fair.

True, but these type of Mexican stand off threads just wear me down

Easy don't come in if you think it is repetitive to you

You would be sat replying to yourself if everyone took that attitude."
Or not pausing my film

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or it could be just down to them not fancying asian or black women or men.

That's what I just said

Your last sentence was sayin some have a racist view on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Doesn't really bother me. If I'm not their type then no tears lost. Probably better ways of dealing with it though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile.

Me neither! Why discriminate against a whole group of people!?

They mightnt fancy black or asian people. Thats NOT racist "

To rule out a whole group of people based on race is classed as discrimination.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Theres a mixed race couple on who have 'sorry no white males' i didnt read an think 'how dare they!' Its personal preference. "

Well it obviously amounts to the same thing as it's not one sided

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile."

The perception of what you place on your profile and what others put on theirs is different.

We all have our prefences, we all have our views on whom we'd both like to meet, nor meet; it's human nature to effectively segregate in our minds whom we ideally wish to hook up with.

Your profile highlights a fe examples of who you DON'T wish to meet; fair enough and that sends out a clear message about whom you wish to meet.

Surely others can state their preferences in the way they see fit without the "race" card!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If having that you don't want to meet black/Asian guys on your profile makes you racist - does having bbc only also make you racist?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or it could be just down to them not fancying asian or black women or men.

That's what I just said

Your last sentence was sayin some have a racist view on it.

Thats my view. I specifically stated in my comment that for some it is attraction based. Then you replied what I'd already covered? It would be very naive of you to think that racism doesn't exist on fab, even if it is a minority. That's my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If having that you don't want to meet black/Asian guys on your profile makes you racist - does having bbc only also make you racist?

There are other channels

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people don't want to meet other races that's their choice I don't see anyone complaining about women that put BBC only on their profiles

There's a saying that says two wrongs don't make a right

They don't necessarily make a wrong either

life is not black and white it's 47 shades of grey or something.

I agree that racial preferences are not really acceptable in life these days, but they are a reality we have to live with.

They don't have to be....fab could easily set it in their rules that the racist profiles are no longer allowed

Its not racist to say 'i dont like asian women' or 'not interested in black men'

Must be just me then as it's something I wouldn't dream of putting on my profile.

Me neither! Why discriminate against a whole group of people!?

They mightnt fancy black or asian people. Thats NOT racist

To rule out a whole group of people based on race is classed as discrimination. "

There ruling it out on attraction.