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"Why not? " Its too early,and women are very grumpy first thing | |||
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"There is very little inequality in the western world between men and women. Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade " I disagree there. That is all | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. " I'd argue that trump being in power has fuck all to do with actually inequality between the sexes and plenty to do with manipulation of the electorate In any case how does the POTUS currently affect your position in the world? | |||
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" it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. " That us the exact point of the article, propagation of a victimhood mentality | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. I'd argue that trump being in power has fuck all to do with actually inequality between the sexes and plenty to do with manipulation of the electorate In any case how does the POTUS currently affect your position in the world? " someone voted in that sexist idiot. that means they do not care that he is sexist. they do not care that he molested women. they do not see any of that as important. | |||
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"However, one thing I will add. I disagree with the view point above. The analogy I'll use is exercise and weight loss. You try very hard to shift the weight and get to your ideal goal. However, if you then stop and get complacent you'll fall back into old habits and the weight will be gained. Same can be applied to feminism. Women are having to fight hard to get the equality they deserve. Say in a hypothetical world they get equality, it's the maintaining that which is equally as hard as getting to the desired goal. Thus, the need for feminism. However, ideally equality should just be engrained in the human mindset and the word feminism shouldn't exist." Are you saying that without a bit of Feminism to keep you in check that you melt back to your sexist pig default mode? | |||
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"However, one thing I will add. I disagree with the view point above. The analogy I'll use is exercise and weight loss. You try very hard to shift the weight and get to your ideal goal. However, if you then stop and get complacent you'll fall back into old habits and the weight will be gained. Same can be applied to feminism. Women are having to fight hard to get the equality they deserve. Say in a hypothetical world they get equality, it's the maintaining that which is equally as hard as getting to the desired goal. Thus, the need for feminism. However, ideally equality should just be engrained in the human mindset and the word feminism shouldn't exist. Are you saying that without a bit of Feminism to keep you in check that you melt back to your sexist pig default mode? " They have the Rooney rule in American Football, they have the black quota in South African sports. Mindsets of many generations are hard to breakdown. | |||
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"That's changing the topic a bit but raises a good point. Women have also been instrumental and had agency in shaping the "unfair" society we live in over the last 50 to 100 years... Who is to blame? " This have moved away from the original point. I am out... have fun. You're playing devil's advocate to the extreme | |||
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"That's changing the topic a bit but raises a good point. Women have also been instrumental and had agency in shaping the "unfair" society we live in over the last 50 to 100 years... Who is to blame? This have moved away from the original point. I am out... have fun. You're playing devil's advocate to the extreme" I'm just tickling your clichéd conceptions | |||
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"That's changing the topic a bit but raises a good point. Women have also been instrumental and had agency in shaping the "unfair" society we live in over the last 50 to 100 years... Who is to blame? This have moved away from the original point. I am out... have fun. You're playing devil's advocate to the extreme I'm just tickling your clichéd conceptions " Says the guy who had to copy and paste to get a message across... | |||
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" One of my favourites is the way the radicals say they're opposed to the concept of gender. Yet so many of them cling to it as the very definition of good (woman) and evil (man.)" That is an excellent Where or who or what is this big daddy patriarchy anyway??? From what I can see, everyone can do what they want within the constraints of the law and their own minds. If you want to get into paternalism then increased government surveillance "for our protection" is a better cause for ire | |||
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"who wrote it? wanna do some snooping on them." Copy and paste his first op im sure it will come up | |||
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"who wrote it? wanna do some snooping on them. Copy and paste his first op im sure it will come up" was a big chunk for googling, but i found it. interesting reading, especially the part where she says women who are failures are using femisinism for that and to blame men. also includes references to munchuasens by proxy... she's only a sophomore student though so probably not experienced much of life anyway. and her twitter is vapid as fuck. | |||
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"That's a very ageist stance Maybe her brain hasn't been addled by years of propaganda " possibly is ageist but then again there's no such thing as ageism unless she becomes a victim, paradox of agism right there. | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started?" I think you are reading it wrong... She is taking the piss out of people who says things like the patriarchy is "literally hitler" | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started?" They all stopped admitting they enjoyed sex and used it to gain power and superiority and a bargaining tool | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started? I think you are reading it wrong... She is taking the piss out of people who says things like the patriarchy is "literally hitler" " maybe. | |||
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"FEMINISM-the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. That doesn't necessarily make a claim that they are treated inequaly. It simply states everything should be. It's an expectation not always an allegation. Sure there are radicals who hijack the concept but that's relevant to any ideal." Why have a movement without a cause? And why is there a new wave of young and angry self proclaimed "activists" is there is no fight? | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started? They all stopped admitting they enjoyed sex and used it to gain power and superiority and a bargaining tool " we did that when we were slaves and our lives depended on it. was a useful hereditary trait it seems. | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started? They all stopped admitting they enjoyed sex and used it to gain power and superiority and a bargaining tool we did that when we were slaves and our lives depended on it. was a useful hereditary trait it seems. " It was tongue in cheek as I'm sure you're well aware. Though to juxtapose, if we look at history and specifically the human race; gaining power and using whatever we can to our advantage to gain the upper hand and suppress others, seems to be ingrained in our makeup, and isn't exclusive to the male species. It's how subtly we do it that's the issue? Discuss | |||
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"this is my favourite quote from that article "“When your ideological political movement to free all humanity from, literally, Hitler-inspired hatred and violence of the evil male patriarchy, is reduced to using cats to disparage opponents, your ‘movement’ is dead… period.”" would love to know when the mass genocide of men happened since feminism started? They all stopped admitting they enjoyed sex and used it to gain power and superiority and a bargaining tool we did that when we were slaves and our lives depended on it. was a useful hereditary trait it seems. It was tongue in cheek as I'm sure you're well aware. Though to juxtapose, if we look at history and specifically the human race; gaining power and using whatever we can to our advantage to gain the upper hand and suppress others, seems to be ingrained in our makeup, and isn't exclusive to the male species. It's how subtly we do it that's the issue? Discuss " the 'power' has tended to fluctuate between men and women, can't remember why* exactly but some of it was to do with all the 'power' being given to one gender so the other gender got pissed off and took it back. maybe that's why people are so bothered coz history repeats itself a lot? *not slept all night. | |||
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"Told you not to go there" No offense dude but you are just taking up space in an otherwise OK debate... Contribute! | |||
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"Told you not to go there No offense dude but you are just taking up space in an otherwise OK debate... Contribute! " Naaaaaa mate not my cup of tea,i'll go in the carrot thread....take care | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims."" Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect . | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect ." What's interesting, is that in all honesty no one us getting slaughtered by either sex. Sure the ridiculous claims are addressed, but by and by most people agree with equality and the notion. I haven't seen any ranting hairy armpitted stereotypes claiming all men are mysoginists and obhectifying women on this sex site? What is concerning is how any inequality is generally done in a stealth like manner. | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. " I guess they should have voted for the other candidate who was married to a sex pest then | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. I guess they should have voted for the other candidate who was married to a sex pest then " there was more than just those two candidates though. | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. I guess they should have voted for the other candidate who was married to a sex pest then there was more than just those two candidates though. " When was the last time an election was won by a candidate who wasn't the republican or democrat nominee? | |||
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"did you see them taking the piss out of that womans eyebrows who was standing behind sexist twat trump, who holds a prominent position of power despite being sexist and accused of molesting a lot of women before being voted into that position. if you don't understand why women need feminism that tells you all you need to know. it doesn't really but i cba explaining any more. women are not seen as equals by everyone, that's really what you need to know. " Sexism, racism, anyism. We've come a long way as a society. As a society we have a long way to go. | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect . What's interesting, is that in all honesty no one us getting slaughtered by either sex. Sure the ridiculous claims are addressed, but by and by most people agree with equality and the notion. I haven't seen any ranting hairy armpitted stereotypes claiming all men are mysoginists and obhectifying women on this sex site? What is concerning is how any inequality is generally done in a stealth like manner. " That's the point we are not all created equal we are all individuals with different talents and traits differences should be recognised and celebrated but sadly society is intent on trying to peddle a equality based around everyone being the same having the same skill set thinking the same thats about control equality like that is about control in my opinion . | |||
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"There is very little inequality in the western world between men and women. Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade " In some aspects - you are right However, Eastern European countries have had equality for at least half a century, where Westerners struggle till this day. E.g. equal pay for equal work. Equal opportunity to employment and promotion. It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade " I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect . What's interesting, is that in all honesty no one us getting slaughtered by either sex. Sure the ridiculous claims are addressed, but by and by most people agree with equality and the notion. I haven't seen any ranting hairy armpitted stereotypes claiming all men are mysoginists and obhectifying women on this sex site? What is concerning is how any inequality is generally done in a stealth like manner. That's the point we are not all created equal we are all individuals with different talents and traits differences should be recognised and celebrated but sadly society is intent on trying to peddle a equality based around everyone being the same having the same skill set thinking the same thats about control equality like that is about control in my opinion . " Society is intent on peddling a system where you get rewarded the same for equal effort. It's nothing to do with ability and differing skills sets. I fully understand we all get different things from life and our experiences will be different. But when we enter an organised system, we expect the same treatment. I can't force people to like me under an equality system. But I can ask for equal pay and protection under legislation and ask for the right to be protected from people exploiting me to further their own gains? | |||
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"Why not? Its too early,and women are very grumpy first thing" My favourite comment of the day so far | |||
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" It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. " This 20% business is an extrapolation of the truth to the point that a lie is now taken as gospel... Your argument is the case in point. It's an extremely crude average that doesn't reflect the type of work, the hours worked or the full time/part time split or the skill in salary negotiation. I view this kind of wholesale manipulation of the facts as the exact type of victimhood that is peddled by all participants and and not just the extremists. | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect . What's interesting, is that in all honesty no one us getting slaughtered by either sex. Sure the ridiculous claims are addressed, but by and by most people agree with equality and the notion. I haven't seen any ranting hairy armpitted stereotypes claiming all men are mysoginists and obhectifying women on this sex site? What is concerning is how any inequality is generally done in a stealth like manner. That's the point we are not all created equal we are all individuals with different talents and traits differences should be recognised and celebrated but sadly society is intent on trying to peddle a equality based around everyone being the same having the same skill set thinking the same thats about control equality like that is about control in my opinion . Society is intent on peddling a system where you get rewarded the same for equal effort. It's nothing to do with ability and differing skills sets. I fully understand we all get different things from life and our experiences will be different. But when we enter an organised system, we expect the same treatment. I can't force people to like me under an equality system. But I can ask for equal pay and protection under legislation and ask for the right to be protected from people exploiting me to further their own gains? " I happen to disagree reward those who achieve more than others otherwise your penalising success pay grades are fine if there based only around productivity and nothing else . Success is not something to be ashamed off it should be rewarded more than failure and I have no problem with pay based around such a idea I'm no communist or Marxist both notions are base around keeping people down and there fore controlled in my opinion | |||
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" It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. This 20% business is an extrapolation of the truth to the point that a lie is now taken as gospel... Your argument is the case in point. It's an extremely crude average that doesn't reflect the type of work, the hours worked or the full time/part time split or the skill in salary negotiation. I view this kind of wholesale manipulation of the facts as the exact type of victimhood that is peddled by all participants and and not just the extremists. " Not to mention it's been reducing for years anyway and is now 9.4% not 20%. Also you never hear feminists complaining that women get paid 6% more for part time work than men. | |||
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" It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. This 20% business is an extrapolation of the truth to the point that a lie is now taken as gospel... Your argument is the case in point. It's an extremely crude average that doesn't reflect the type of work, the hours worked or the full time/part time split or the skill in salary negotiation. I view this kind of wholesale manipulation of the facts as the exact type of victimhood that is peddled by all participants and and not just the extremists. Not to mention it's been reducing for years anyway and is now 9.4% not 20%. Also you never hear feminists complaining that women get paid 6% more for part time work than men. " As the latest BBC salaries show it's more like 500% difference in some roles. To the poster immediately after my post : 20% and higher than that is the norm for virtually all high profile jobs. Obviously on low skills cleaning jobs etc,both genders get paid equally. What I said is a fact. Do some research yourself. | |||
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" It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. This 20% business is an extrapolation of the truth to the point that a lie is now taken as gospel... Your argument is the case in point. It's an extremely crude average that doesn't reflect the type of work, the hours worked or the full time/part time split or the skill in salary negotiation. I view this kind of wholesale manipulation of the facts as the exact type of victimhood that is peddled by all participants and and not just the extremists. Not to mention it's been reducing for years anyway and is now 9.4% not 20%. Also you never hear feminists complaining that women get paid 6% more for part time work than men. As the latest BBC salaries show it's more like 500% difference in some roles. To the poster immediately after my post : 20% and higher than that is the norm for virtually all high profile jobs. Obviously on low skills cleaning jobs etc,both genders get paid equally. What I said is a fact. Do some research yourself. " That is, it has nothing to do with part time work etc. It's a real inequality that proves the point that western societies still live in the dark ages as far as gender equality is concerned. | |||
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" It goes without saying there,while in 21 Century Britain women still earn some 20% less than men and are often overlooked for employment and promotion. Extreme feminism is a plague, on the other hand. It turns women into man haters and also hating other women too who may be better looking and take care of their appearance. Or do typical women type of jobs or stay at home mums, etc. That is, seen as complying with the traditional gender roles and are not obstinate and vicious revolutionary like the hardcore feminists. This 20% business is an extrapolation of the truth to the point that a lie is now taken as gospel... Your argument is the case in point. It's an extremely crude average that doesn't reflect the type of work, the hours worked or the full time/part time split or the skill in salary negotiation. I view this kind of wholesale manipulation of the facts as the exact type of victimhood that is peddled by all participants and and not just the extremists. Not to mention it's been reducing for years anyway and is now 9.4% not 20%. Also you never hear feminists complaining that women get paid 6% more for part time work than men. As the latest BBC salaries show it's more like 500% difference in some roles. To the poster immediately after my post : 20% and higher than that is the norm for virtually all high profile jobs. Obviously on low skills cleaning jobs etc,both genders get paid equally. What I said is a fact. Do some research yourself. " Well my figures come from the ONS but i guess you took more time to compare the auidence size of the BBC presenters getting 'underpaid'. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more " in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. " Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first.../SNIP\...thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims."" This is true of any ism. Racism, sexism, islamaphobia, literally everything. When the problem ceases to exist, and gender inequality is a long was from being a none issue, then feminism becomes a celebration of the sacrifice and battle of those that who lived through the times of equality. Personally i find the OPs post to be offensive and ill conceived. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? " allow me to research that, i'll be back | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? " . Apparently everybody hates Chris Evans but his listening figures say otherwise | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? " Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary." What are their viewing figures please? | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? " Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB" . Did she present strictly in 2016?. I thought that was Brucie? | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB" I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? | |||
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"Dr. Who - Just sayin' Wobbles tits and waddles out." . Retired five years earlier... Just saying | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? " Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. " As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. " . But she co presented it with three other women and Brucie so she can't have 50%... Brucie gets 50% as main presenter so she could share the other 50% with the other two women maybe.. What's that 17.5%? | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? " Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. . But she co presented it with three other women and Brucie so she can't have 50%... Brucie gets 50% as main presenter so she could share the other 50% with the other two women maybe.. What's that 17.5%?" Im really excited by this. I dont want strictly so need to to research the presenting team. If we're doing this though, Gary is always joined by three co presentets and analysists plus commentry team. I need more time. But i estimate there are 38 episodes of motd although GL doesnt do them all so are you happy with 38? I know he does FA cup ties and england games and stuff? | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with...." You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. " Of course it's relevant. It's all relevant. But the discrepancy in pay can't be explained away that easily. The figures show you that. Besides money isn't necessary generated by how much content you create. We'd have to see how much money each shownis pulling in for the BBC, and a don't have access to that information. Anyway, it doesn't answer my other point - what are the stats around how many women are offered lead presenter spots as opposed to men for big ticket shows? | |||
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"They are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society." A cuckold society sounds awesome | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society." Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society." Interesting. How do they emasculate the men Shag ? | |||
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"They are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. A cuckold society sounds awesome " Yes, it does, but they have to man up like the russians, if they want to have a sweden in 10 years in the rate it is going now. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. Of course it's relevant. It's all relevant. But the discrepancy in pay can't be explained away that easily. The figures show you that. Besides money isn't necessary generated by how much content you create. We'd have to see how much money each shownis pulling in for the BBC, and a don't have access to that information. Anyway, it doesn't answer my other point - what are the stats around how many women are offered lead presenter spots as opposed to men for big ticket shows? " Without trying to sound facetious, they are probably proportional to the number of legit female sports 'stars'. Historically there are 2 sports where women have been full time professionals (tennis and golf). MMA is a recent addition and the women do rather well there. Some females have full time contracts for football and rugby but these are low paid and temporary. Gary lineker is a rare breed of international footballer that can string a sentenance together. There simply isn't a female that has competed at any level comparable to him and therefore people are less interested in their views. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. " Yes, that sounds like a good plan | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. " How did you do your calculations cosidering they are so different to mine? | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. " You won't like the taxes. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. How did you do your calculations cosidering they are so different to mine?" The last epsiode of strictly on iplayer seemed to be 40 minutes x 27 episodes whilst the last episode of MOTD was 119 minutes. Perhaps that's not the standard? | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. You won't like the taxes. " I'm not really into cuckolding either so I guess I mispoke. Too bad it's not more of a hot wife society. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. You won't like the taxes. " Yes, but it goes to free education, they are ranked 2nd best higher education system in world. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. You won't like the taxes. I'm not really into cuckolding either so I guess I mispoke. Too bad it's not more of a hot wife society. " A hot wife society would probably solve a lot of the worlds problems. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. Of course it's relevant. It's all relevant. But the discrepancy in pay can't be explained away that easily. The figures show you that. Besides money isn't necessary generated by how much content you create. We'd have to see how much money each shownis pulling in for the BBC, and a don't have access to that information. Anyway, it doesn't answer my other point - what are the stats around how many women are offered lead presenter spots as opposed to men for big ticket shows? Without trying to sound facetious, they are probably proportional to the number of legit female sports 'stars'. Historically there are 2 sports where women have been full time professionals (tennis and golf). MMA is a recent addition and the women do rather well there. Some females have full time contracts for football and rugby but these are low paid and temporary. Gary lineker is a rare breed of international footballer that can string a sentenance together. There simply isn't a female that has competed at any level comparable to him and therefore people are less interested in their views. " Gaby Logan presents Match of the Day 2 occasionally. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. You won't like the taxes. Yes, but it goes to free education, they are ranked 2nd best higher education system in world." Not sure how they came up with that ranking when they only have 2 universities in the world top 200 rankings. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary. What are their viewing figures please? Strictly come dancing = 11.25 million Match of the day = 3.7 million Source BARB I don't watch either but is it not correct Gary is the lead presenter of MOTD and Claudia is a co-presenter? Excellent argument. Let's maths with it. SCD has 400% the audience of MOTD GL earns 400% the salary of CW By that working CW as co presenter is worth 50% or the audience. Meaning on her own, double that of MoTD. As i said, i don't watch either so just bear with me. Is it not also correct that there are more episodes of MOTD per year and the episodes are longer? Come on....really. You originally asked for ratings figures, now everything else becomes relevant. Seriously. The gender gap in salary for the BBC presenters was horrible. This whole back and forth is just showing what lengths we have to go to justify that. If like to know how often women are given lead presenter spots on big-ticket shows to begin with.... You know how a commercial market works, their appeal as presenters is relavtive to the viewings they can attract. By my calculations there is about 4x more MOTD content produced than strictly. How is it not relevant to factor in the difference between 4m viewers for 4,800 minutes a year vrs 11m for 1,080 minutes a year. Of course it's relevant. It's all relevant. But the discrepancy in pay can't be explained away that easily. The figures show you that. Besides money isn't necessary generated by how much content you create. We'd have to see how much money each shownis pulling in for the BBC, and a don't have access to that information. Anyway, it doesn't answer my other point - what are the stats around how many women are offered lead presenter spots as opposed to men for big ticket shows? Without trying to sound facetious, they are probably proportional to the number of legit female sports 'stars'. Historically there are 2 sports where women have been full time professionals (tennis and golf). MMA is a recent addition and the women do rather well there. Some females have full time contracts for football and rugby but these are low paid and temporary. Gary lineker is a rare breed of international footballer that can string a sentenance together. There simply isn't a female that has competed at any level comparable to him and therefore people are less interested in their views. " Oversimplification. But I'll leave it there. | |||
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"The last epsiode of strictly on iplayer seemed to be 40 minutes x 27 episodes whilst the last episode of MOTD was 119 minutes. Perhaps that's not the standard?" That's the results show. I've got 90 minutes per episode average of MoTD. But we can work with 120 minutes for 38 episodes a year. | |||
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"Where or who or what is this big daddy patriarchy anyway??? From what I can see, everyone can do what they want within the constraints of the law and their own minds. If you want to get into paternalism then increased government surveillance "for our protection" is a better cause for ire " It's heavily diluted now, but it still exists. A friend of mine, now post-op, gets "Would you like me to plug your computer in, dear?" When she can rebuild a server from scratch with her eyes shut. It's there in the belief that women can't work anything more complicated than an iron or a washing machine. (Actually, modern washing machines are bloody confusing. I challenge anyone to use one correctly without reading the manual.) The disparity in pay is still there, both certainly UK and US. The finite career ladder, because you don't want someone in a critical role taking several months off for pregnancy. Women find themselves in skilled, but still replaceable jobs. Passed up for promotion because they can't be trusted not to have babies. If they bring in compulsory paternity leave, equivalent to maternity leave, that might just level the playing field. And it isn't difficult to find it in the way men treat women sexually. Girls getting sent home from school because their hemline doesn't reach their fingertips and it's distracting for the boys. As though it's up to the girls to make themselves too ugly to perv at, rather than for the boys not to perv. Society still accepts this as the normal order of things. Even that it's a normal urge for a man to want to commit sexual assault, and a woman's role to avoid tempting him to do it. "She was wearing a short skirt. She had it coming." We're still a long way off equality. | |||
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"Where or who or what is this big daddy patriarchy anyway??? From what I can see, everyone can do what they want within the constraints of the law and their own minds. If you want to get into paternalism then increased government surveillance "for our protection" is a better cause for ire It's heavily diluted now, but it still exists. A friend of mine, now post-op, gets "Would you like me to plug your computer in, dear?" When she can rebuild a server from scratch with her eyes shut. It's there in the belief that women can't work anything more complicated than an iron or a washing machine. (Actually, modern washing machines are bloody confusing. I challenge anyone to use one correctly without reading the manual.) The disparity in pay is still there, both certainly UK and US. The finite career ladder, because you don't want someone in a critical role taking several months off for pregnancy. Women find themselves in skilled, but still replaceable jobs. Passed up for promotion because they can't be trusted not to have babies. If they bring in compulsory paternity leave, equivalent to maternity leave, that might just level the playing field. And it isn't difficult to find it in the way men treat women sexually. Girls getting sent home from school because their hemline doesn't reach their fingertips and it's distracting for the boys. As though it's up to the girls to make themselves too ugly to perv at, rather than for the boys not to perv. Society still accepts this as the normal order of things. Even that it's a normal urge for a man to want to commit sexual assault, and a woman's role to avoid tempting him to do it. "She was wearing a short skirt. She had it coming." We're still a long way off equality. " | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Interesting. How do they emasculate the men Shag ? " Although these ones are fundamentalists. They see a man of having less value in society. | |||
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"How. How are they emasculating the men ? Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaseeeeee. " Not letting them have their own way. | |||
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"They feminists are winning in sweden where they govern and emasculating the men, the men are 2nd class citizens, to sum it up, a cuckold society. Fuck yeah! I'm moving to Sweden. You won't like the taxes. Yes, but it goes to free education, they are ranked 2nd best higher education system in world. Not sure how they came up with that ranking when they only have 2 universities in the world top 200 rankings." Yes, not sure how it is measured. I reckon south korea is nr1. | |||
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"How. How are they emasculating the men ? Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaseeeeee. " they now do more than 50% of the housework. probably. and have to walk around in high heels at work to look more attractive to clients. maybe. | |||
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"I don't think the OP should worry his pretty little head about stuff like this. Leave it to us girls to sort it all out......" Or better still ......... us women. | |||
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"Jesus - I came into this thread decrying identity politics and I've gotten myself involved in a gender pay gap dispute anyway. I'm done. " . Oh this is like the old days of the love boat show, where groups of people would come on with problems and by the end there'd all be lovers ... But the captain was obviously a man, I mean no man would sail a great big cruise ship through a small gap while shouting WATCH THIS | |||
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"I don't think the OP should worry his pretty little head about stuff like this. Leave it to us girls to sort it all out......" thats true females fix n sort out all the male fuck ups | |||
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"Where or who or what is this big daddy patriarchy anyway??? From what I can see, everyone can do what they want within the constraints of the law and their own minds. If you want to get into paternalism then increased government surveillance "for our protection" is a better cause for ire It's heavily diluted now, but it still exists. A friend of mine, now post-op, gets "Would you like me to plug your computer in, dear?" When she can rebuild a server from scratch with her eyes shut. It's there in the belief that women can't work anything more complicated than an iron or a washing machine. (Actually, modern washing machines are bloody confusing. I challenge anyone to use one correctly without reading the manual.) The disparity in pay is still there, both certainly UK and US. The finite career ladder, because you don't want someone in a critical role taking several months off for pregnancy. Women find themselves in skilled, but still replaceable jobs. Passed up for promotion because they can't be trusted not to have babies. If they bring in compulsory paternity leave, equivalent to maternity leave, that might just level the playing field. And it isn't difficult to find it in the way men treat women sexually. Girls getting sent home from school because their hemline doesn't reach their fingertips and it's distracting for the boys. As though it's up to the girls to make themselves too ugly to perv at, rather than for the boys not to perv. Society still accepts this as the normal order of things. Even that it's a normal urge for a man to want to commit sexual assault, and a woman's role to avoid tempting him to do it. "She was wearing a short skirt. She had it coming." We're still a long way off equality. " I wish people with these views would take a trip to pakistan once in a while and see what a real patriarchy looks like. Your arguement is like me saying the UK is a dictatorship rather than a democracy because i can't speak freely about the benefits of joining ISIS in the way i could in the US which has stronger free speech laws. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more " I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first.../SNIP\...thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." This is true of any ism. Racism, sexism, islamaphobia, literally everything. When the problem ceases to exist, and gender inequality is a long was from being a none issue, then feminism becomes a celebration of the sacrifice and battle of those that who lived through the times of equality. Personally i find the OPs post to be offensive and ill conceived. " OP merely quoted an article he read. Not his words BTW. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... " There are really not 1,001 equally weighted factors critical to the success of an organisation. If you genuinely could get equally qualified and skilled people for 20% less than your competitors then that would be an insurmountable advantage in most industries. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... There are really not 1,001 equally weighted factors critical to the success of an organisation. If you genuinely could get equally qualified and skilled people for 20% less than your competitors then that would be an insurmountable advantage in most industries." I'm sure that you an I say the same thing. Life is more complex than simple arithmetics. The reality is that the big corporations happily pay top dollar to men at the top and, say half that or 20% less, to women for the same job and if they needed to worry about money as you say, they will simply pay lower wages to those at the bottom of the ladder as well as pass costs to customers. The point is , gender pay gap is still a huge problem in western countries . Gender inequality still exist. Pay differences is only one of the indication of this reality. I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... There are really not 1,001 equally weighted factors critical to the success of an organisation. If you genuinely could get equally qualified and skilled people for 20% less than your competitors then that would be an insurmountable advantage in most industries. I'm sure that you an I say the same thing. Life is more complex than simple arithmetics. The reality is that the big corporations happily pay top dollar to men at the top and, say half that or 20% less, to women for the same job and if they needed to worry about money as you say, they will simply pay lower wages to those at the bottom of the ladder as well as pass costs to customers. The point is , gender pay gap is still a huge problem in western countries . Gender inequality still exist. Pay differences is only one of the indication of this reality. I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. " Companies do not pay 20% less for the same job. There is no credible source for that assertion. It would also be illegal and therefore you are implying some sort of conspiracy. According to the ONS, men earn 9.4% on average but this is not meant to be a like for like comparison and they list all the factors that account for the difference, discrimination is not one of them. Why do you supppose companies pay men more for full time work and women more for part time work? That is what the data shows... | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... There are really not 1,001 equally weighted factors critical to the success of an organisation. If you genuinely could get equally qualified and skilled people for 20% less than your competitors then that would be an insurmountable advantage in most industries. I'm sure that you an I say the same thing. Life is more complex than simple arithmetics. The reality is that the big corporations happily pay top dollar to men at the top and, say half that or 20% less, to women for the same job and if they needed to worry about money as you say, they will simply pay lower wages to those at the bottom of the ladder as well as pass costs to customers. The point is , gender pay gap is still a huge problem in western countries . Gender inequality still exist. Pay differences is only one of the indication of this reality. I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. Companies do not pay 20% less for the same job. There is no credible source for that assertion. It would also be illegal and therefore you are implying some sort of conspiracy. According to the ONS, men earn 9.4% on average but this is not meant to be a like for like comparison and they list all the factors that account for the difference, discrimination is not one of them. Why do you supppose companies pay men more for full time work and women more for part time work? That is what the data shows... " Look at proper data. Talk to people who work there. Read relevant information. You can't rely on a single source of information and quite it out of context. Gender pay gap is a well known decease of most if not all western countries, UK and US being the worst. It has nothing to do with full or part time job.. As I said, it generally concerns the higher end of paid jobs but not only. including those where pay is negotiable, hence not (technically ) illegal to negotiate down or up ,individual salaries. | |||
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""The philosophy rests on the idea that in order to be equal, you must first accept that you are unequal." "It would never have occurred to me that my gender was a limitation had feminism not suggested it. Growing up, I never cowered beneath the male gaze or struggled in the grips of the patriarchy, and it never occurred to me that being female rendered me a minority in need of protection. I was not raised to be a feminist, and because of that, I was never encouraged to doubt that I was completely equal to men. In today’s society, women are introduced to this doubt by feminism itself. The movement in its twenty-first century incarnation has become an inherently self-defeating entity. Feminism cannot survive as a movement if women truly believe themselves to be equal. Thus, feminism survives by encouraging women to see themselves as victims, thereby ensuring there remains an adversary, a source of conflict to give life to the crusade. It is a movement that must undermine its own goals in order to sustain itself by creating victims out of its followers and calling it empowerment. Modern feminism has trapped itself in paradox and lured its followers into a losing battle. If women are truly equal, feminism itself is superfluous. Thus, for feminism to survive, women can never win. Feminism only wins when women lose. Women can only be empowered if they are victims." Your going to be slaughtered for this post I suspect OP . I was raised by a single parent my mother so I personally don't see a difference in the genders because of this fact . You right it is a oxymoron paradox but so much about life and society is just that in my opinion and on them grounds why should feminism and the feminist movement beany different . Its a good post pointing out a truth but that will fall on death ears on here I suspect . What's interesting, is that in all honesty no one us getting slaughtered by either sex. Sure the ridiculous claims are addressed, but by and by most people agree with equality and the notion. I haven't seen any ranting hairy armpitted stereotypes claiming all men are mysoginists and obhectifying women on this sex site? What is concerning is how any inequality is generally done in a stealth like manner. That's the point we are not all created equal we are all individuals with different talents and traits differences should be recognised and celebrated but sadly society is intent on trying to peddle a equality based around everyone being the same having the same skill set thinking the same thats about control equality like that is about control in my opinion . " Not at all. Equality is "peddled" around equal opportunity. | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. " Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more I'm sure you mean it in a lighthearted way, but still, I'll call you on this. Economics isn't only about paying lower wages. There 1001 other factors in order to make an enterprise a success. Take the big investment banks for example. They spare no money in order to get the "brightest" as they call them. If it was to pay the lowest salary, I'm sure many people would be happy to work there even for free. Just so they can eat choicest cookies overlooking the City panorama... There are really not 1,001 equally weighted factors critical to the success of an organisation. If you genuinely could get equally qualified and skilled people for 20% less than your competitors then that would be an insurmountable advantage in most industries. I'm sure that you an I say the same thing. Life is more complex than simple arithmetics. The reality is that the big corporations happily pay top dollar to men at the top and, say half that or 20% less, to women for the same job and if they needed to worry about money as you say, they will simply pay lower wages to those at the bottom of the ladder as well as pass costs to customers. The point is , gender pay gap is still a huge problem in western countries . Gender inequality still exist. Pay differences is only one of the indication of this reality. I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. Companies do not pay 20% less for the same job. There is no credible source for that assertion. It would also be illegal and therefore you are implying some sort of conspiracy. According to the ONS, men earn 9.4% on average but this is not meant to be a like for like comparison and they list all the factors that account for the difference, discrimination is not one of them. Why do you supppose companies pay men more for full time work and women more for part time work? That is what the data shows... Look at proper data. Talk to people who work there. Read relevant information. You can't rely on a single source of information and quite it out of context. Gender pay gap is a well known decease of most if not all western countries, UK and US being the worst. It has nothing to do with full or part time job.. As I said, it generally concerns the higher end of paid jobs but not only. including those where pay is negotiable, hence not (technically ) illegal to negotiate down or up ,individual salaries. " So why don't they, for example, create a woman only hedge fund then? They'd either be way more profitable or earning way more than their current jobs. Hedge funds are relatively easy to start, very low fixed and upfront costs. | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children." Other than the fact the number and proportion of women in work has continuously increased since the war. | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children. Other than the fact the number and proportion of women in work has continuously increased since the war. " Is it not obvious i was talking about a particular era? | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children. Other than the fact the number and proportion of women in work has continuously increased since the war. Is it not obvious i was talking about a particular era?" The data i see is from 1955 - present with women continuously representing a larger proportion of the workforce. World war two ended in 1945 so when was the period when the government pushed it's own agenda to try and keep women from working? | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children. Other than the fact the number and proportion of women in work has continuously increased since the war. Is it not obvious i was talking about a particular era? The data i see is from 1955 - present with women continuously representing a larger proportion of the workforce. World war two ended in 1945 so when was the period when the government pushed it's own agenda to try and keep women from working?" "After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children". 1945- the fifties. | |||
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"Rich and poor would be a more fruitful crusade I completely agree. This is my problem with identity politics in general - it always serves to break up the mass that is "the poor" into individual parts that have competing interests. The established elite benefit greatly from all the in-fighting, while eveyone else only gains the ground that other identities have lost. This can be best exemplified by looking at the consolidation of wealth and power that has happened since the "success" of identity politics. But, then, people would rather see themselves as "female" "black" "Muslim" "male" "gay" "white" than as simply "poor" or "economically worse off". I think that is the success of identity politics. Historically the government has pushed its own political gender agenda. Men going to war left a huge gap in the job market. Women were encouraged to enter factories and work on the land. After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children. Other than the fact the number and proportion of women in work has continuously increased since the war. Is it not obvious i was talking about a particular era? The data i see is from 1955 - present with women continuously representing a larger proportion of the workforce. World war two ended in 1945 so when was the period when the government pushed it's own agenda to try and keep women from working? "After the war, the men returned needing jobs and women were encouraged to return back to being housewives and raising children". 1945- the fifties. " Right so you were talking specifically about 1945-1955... and you say i make obscure references | |||
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"Men and women are equal yet different .... Like the scales - gold ingots on one side and silver coins on the other - equal weight.... both precious metal Equal - yet different " Amen to that | |||
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"Love women, hate feminism." Why hate feminism ? | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. " This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? | |||
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"Love women, hate feminism. Why hate feminism ?" . Coz it's a load of bollocks, its just another political movement that seeks customers by saying... Oh your life's shit, yes well I can tell you why and its not your fault, its this bogeyman over here, nothing you ever do or did will overcome it.. Unless your the Queen, then you've got it made | |||
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" Is it not obvious i was talking about a particular era?" The article and debate are focused on the present. The past is irrelevant to the discussion. | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? " the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. | |||
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"If the gender pay gap was remotely even true, those lovely capitalists would be falling over themselves to employ women coz let's face facts, some men might hate women but boy they sure love money more in the face of all the evidence to the contrary. Did you see the news about the BBC last week? 1 woman in the top 10 earners. The gender pay gap starts at the top and filters down, mate. Remind me what the audience figures were for the massively underpaid women relative to the massively overpaid men? Random selection of November 2016 shows that top tv earner Gary Linekars show has 25% of the viewing figures of the top female earner, Claudia Winkleman. He earns 4x her salary." To be fair though, she hasn't scored a crucial goal in the elimination stages of the world cup! | |||
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"Most of the people I know that hate women are women, there like Swedes, they just can't stand themselves!" Actually women have an in-group bias compared to men who have an out-group bias. | |||
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"Most of the people I know that hate women are women, there like Swedes, they just can't stand themselves! Actually women have an in-group bias compared to men who have an out-group bias." . Ahhhh your asserting your patriarchy over me with fancy words.... Man hater | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that." There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. | |||
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"Most of the people I know that hate women are women, there like Swedes, they just can't stand themselves! Actually women have an in-group bias compared to men who have an out-group bias.. Ahhhh your asserting your patriarchy over me with fancy words.... Man hater" Out-group bias. Hoes before bro's, didn't you know? | |||
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" like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that." Where in 2017 is society telling women to be housewives? Get a grip! | |||
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"Most of the people I know that hate women are women, there like Swedes, they just can't stand themselves! Actually women have an in-group bias compared to men who have an out-group bias.. Ahhhh your asserting your patriarchy over me with fancy words.... Man hater Out-group bias. Hoes before bro's, didn't you know? " . No... I'm too busy trying to hoich my toast out of toaster to worry about shit like this.... | |||
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" like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. Where in 2017 is society telling women to be housewives? Get a grip! " it has tried to. can't you read? | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. " . I'm only laughing coz I'm in a mid life crisis with an ex wife . But yeah you go girl/guy | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. " my mum had 4 of us and stayed slim. yeah pretty much that was the accepted way of doing things. took ages for men to get equal paternity leave to women, all men and so that was all of society. | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. . I'm only laughing coz I'm in a mid life crisis with an ex wife . But yeah you go girl/guy" ooooh do you like girlguys??/ | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. . I'm only laughing coz I'm in a mid life crisis with an ex wife . But yeah you go girl/guy" I have a wonderful wife who has a fantastic mind. Who a lof people don't get is that the brain is conceptually similar to any other muscle. You use it and it grows, you don't and it atrophies. Ain't no way she's have 9 months maternity leave. Ain't no way. | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. . I'm only laughing coz I'm in a mid life crisis with an ex wife . But yeah you go girl/guy ooooh do you like girlguys??/ " . No I'm a man's man, dirty fingernails and a stiff one... That's a lip or a top shelf before closing time ... Right I'm off to put my oil of Ulay face cream on before bedtime | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. my mum had 4 of us and stayed slim. yeah pretty much that was the accepted way of doing things. took ages for men to get equal paternity leave to women, all men and so that was all of society." Average dress size in the UK is 16 now, right? | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. my mum had 4 of us and stayed slim. yeah pretty much that was the accepted way of doing things. took ages for men to get equal paternity leave to women, all men and so that was all of society. Average dress size in the UK is 16 now, right? " lol,,no way ,,i suddenly feel soooooooooooooo skinny n feeble | |||
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" I very much doubt that men and women will ever be recognised as equal. This is exactly the point of the article... Self fulfilling victimisation of women. Your argument about the big boys at the top is mostly illogical. You pointed out that in some cases money is no object for the right talent aka a system of merit. Are you saying women can't be brilliant or the best in their field? the best? if a woman is the best or a man is it doesn't men all women or men are. i really don't get this mentality, but you see it everywhere, 'my' football team is top of the league so I am the best...er no your not. equality is never really people being equal, that's a fallacy because out of all types of people there's a diverse range of cognitivity, physicality, personality, so nobody is 'equal', equality applies to equal opportunities. so you cannot deny one gender something if the other gender is allowed. like you cannot force women to be housewives and look after the children and tell men they cannot do the same. although society has tried to do just that. There's no such thing as society. Unless you can point to specific actors then it's just speculation. I don't know any men who want a housewife, nothing makes a woman fatter and dumber than sitting around the house all day making faces at babies. my mum had 4 of us and stayed slim. yeah pretty much that was the accepted way of doing things. took ages for men to get equal paternity leave to women, all men and so that was all of society. Average dress size in the UK is 16 now, right? " my mum was a 10, back in the 70/80/90s when that actually was a size. nowadays a 10 can be anything. | |||
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"Let's go off topic... Surely a brilliant lady has others interests than work to keep her neurons ticking over " But what % of your waking hours does work occupy? Over half if you minus hours spent washing, shitting and and dressing. Then try keeping up with a hobby when you have an attention seeking child making you sleep deprived. | |||
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