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national service

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

yes or no

personally i say yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Greeks have got it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As do the turks ...

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

National Service is standard in Israel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I say yes but, not necessarily in the military but in the service of the community

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By *entscotscplCouple
over a year ago

falkirk ish

yes yes yes we say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. I don't believe in mandatory things for people like that. Think we all should be able to choose not to do things and to make someone fight and potentially kill another human is just not right.

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By *nverman67Man
over a year ago

Aberdeen

Definitely not in the Military, as someone mentioned earlier maybe community service but we have a Professional Armed Forces and that is the way it should stay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

a definitive yes, bring back national service

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

The unwritten story of national service is all about the machinery required to track down people who dodged their service, or to imprison those who were non compliant.

Why not just guarantee every kind who wants it a year's useful work in the community or a year's trial in the armed forces? Do a quick personality and skills profile and allocate them to jobs at random - so you get Tottenham kids doing a year repairing paths in the pennines, or rural kids doing a year with the homeless. (I did some time volunteering in a hostel for the homeless - it made me a better person, IMO).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know a lot of people who did National Service and loved every minute of it. They said it 'made' them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot of people who did National Service and loved every minute of it. They said it 'made' them.

"

im sure it did..

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By *entadreadMan
over a year ago

Essex


"I know a lot of people who did National Service and loved every minute of it. They said it 'made' them.

im sure it did.."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes to some kind of service- the brats round here couldn't possibly do any worse....

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By *opeye-OliveCouple
over a year ago

worcester

Great Idea. The next time the USA elects a gun toting moron, we can all wave our teenagers goodbye as they go off to another ilegal war, and die for Oil.

Hell NOOOOO!

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By *unterslickCouple
over a year ago

tullamore

altough i dont live in england,,i think itd be a great idea,for ireland england to do that,,less unemployment less wasters on the streets,,and more productivity

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"I say yes but, not necessarily in the military but in the service of the community "

Thats what I'd say. In the Netherlands they work with the emergency services too whch I reckon would give a sense of proportion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Id say no as i know someone thats in the isralarmy and he hates it was hes a total geek and hates the though of war and killing some1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes or no

personally i say yes "

yup

From the ages of 16 till 21 for both girls and boys. and.......no

not part of the army at all.

sod all to do with the armed forces, those who risk life and limb every day.

More like a national boot camp...

then at 18 if good enough, go into the forces ,.or stick around and do ya time.

This country is so bloody lax with the young its no wonder we have the youth we have. couldnt care less and will go thru life the same.

Both my brothers were in army, along with two cousins and i did 3 years in the T.A.

All now great fellas altho their experiences would make your hair curl.

We have to get tough im afraid, or suffer the consequences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just think some of our locals would go down well as cannon fodder..

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

No.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot of people who did National Service and loved every minute of it. They said it 'made' them.

im sure it did.."

No stopping you now Suzy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I say yes but, not necessarily in the military but in the service of the community

Thats what I'd say. In the Netherlands they work with the emergency services too whch I reckon would give a sense of proportion."

+1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/11 21:40:52]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of "

did they learn that from the NS or good parenting

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"I say yes but, not necessarily in the military but in the service of the community

Thats what I'd say. In the Netherlands they work with the emergency services too whch I reckon would give a sense of proportion.

+1"

Heyyy, how you doin'

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

We have a modern professional army, arguably the best trained army in the world.

Would we want to burden them with colleagues who didn't want to be there in the first place?....they totally rely on the guy next to them to be there if and when they need them....

I think not.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of "

Shame they don't stay that way really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of

did they learn that from the NS or good parenting"

combination of both ..

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of

did they learn that from the NS or good parenting

combination of both .. "

we need to start to rebuild the family here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We have a modern professional army, arguably the best trained army in the world.

Would we want to burden them with colleagues who didn't want to be there in the first place?....they totally rely on the guy next to them to be there if and when they need them....

I think not."

nope. not into the mainstream at all.

Unless after several yrs of training.

But could be used in community based projects etc.

Why just pay them to sit around to drink and take drugs...along with having bloody kids. then the cicle starts again...and again

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of "

Sorry, but anyone who's seen the football hooligan graffiti on the Hersonissos to Malia road will wonder what makes you think that....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We have a modern professional army, arguably the best trained army in the world.

Would we want to burden them with colleagues who didn't want to be there in the first place?....they totally rely on the guy next to them to be there if and when they need them....

I think not."

But conscription worked historically and the National Servicemen and women were in reserve and served alongside the military in many conflicts in 'peacetime' as well as during wwii and received many accolades for their participation.

Why would they be trained to fight then turn against their fellow soldier in combat or not 'cover their back'. It would be instictive by then because of their training.

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle


"altough i dont live in england,,i think itd be a great idea,for ireland england to do that,,less unemployment less wasters on the streets,,and more productivity"

What's the link to productivity?

productivity rises from increased skill or increased capital spending...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of

Sorry, but anyone who's seen the football hooligan graffiti on the Hersonissos to Malia road will wonder what makes you think that...."

Now we talking footie...and both countries are very anal retentive about that.....nowt to do with national service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to greece and turkey and you wont find the younger lads hanging around street corners, annoying their neighbours, graphitiying the walls and being complete morons.

They learn respect and bloody hard work...

something the youth of today have no idea of

Sorry, but anyone who's seen the football hooligan graffiti on the Hersonissos to Malia road will wonder what makes you think that...."

or stabbing kids to death in Laganas

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By *heekyladyCouple
over a year ago

manchester

I would agree to some sort of National Service, give them a choice .. either be in gainful employment for at least a year, be in full time education (and achieve grades and attendance etc) failing that, you get to do some sort of service be it police, fire, community, but something to get them off their backsides and to see if they can't realise that the world doesn't owe them a living.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I think that there should be of some sort..

Cali

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can all nitpick...

But why the hell should the taxpayer fork out millions for those to squander it on drugs and babies...along with robbery and gun crimes.... etc

the youth are always spouting.."were bored" ..thats why we do it....

well national service will solve that. and if no national service...no money . end of.

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

yes yes yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes or no

personally i say yes "

Have you been then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should not just be thinking armed forces though, there are lots of other areas where national service could be useful and constructive.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I work with the Army and can at least tell you that National Service will never be implemented again. However they are looking at reducing regulars and increasing reserves to take up the shortfall. The only way to do that is probably going to be some sort of decent monetary reward (they will be going to war, after all) so it may well be that more people with join the TA. Then there may be a way for them to transfer to the regulars if they want.

But it won't change the fact that there are NO facilities for young people these days due to cuts, so I don't think it is all the kids fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hang on...

we had sod all as kids, less than the average kid today and yet we didnt do what they do or dont do (work) ...

Christ they have tons thrown at them and yet it still isnt enough...

The difference being is the word RESPECT...for ones parents, community and ones fellow man.....

something which todays parents DONT teach .......along with good morals and decency

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By *xccvvMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire North East

Having served in the Army would not want anyone other than people who wanted to join, be serving with me

Why do people think it correct to make others do things they dont want to?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Having served in the Army would not want anyone other than people who wanted to join, be serving with me

Why do people think it correct to make others do things they dont want to?

"

Jealousy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Having served in the Army would not want anyone other than people who wanted to join, be serving with me

Why do people think it correct to make others do things they dont want to?

"

I think most saying yes , wouldnt want them side by side of the armed forces, but used by communities or doing summat useful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Having served in the Army would not want anyone other than people who wanted to join, be serving with me

Why do people think it correct to make others do things they dont want to?

"

Some people are out of touch, they think national service is a solution when in reality it is so far from it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes but not with the regular forces, give them the square bashing and discipline and plenty of community work.

As for teaching the little shits how to use weapons............errr no!

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd personally say no.

I take children 6 upwards for extra-curricular activities. Even at the youngest end of the spectrum, it astounds me how many don't understand the basic concepts of saying please and thank you, or of sharing equipment. Even at 6 & 7 you get the ones who confidently pipe up that "you cant tell me what to do".

The problems are already present way before the (historic) age of National Service! The money and resources spent of enforcing national services would be far better spent elsewhere.

The morals, work ethic and basic decency should start from the day nought in their home life and be reinforced throughout their education - but that'll take generations to change!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes but not with the regular forces, give them the square bashing and discipline and plenty of community work.

As for teaching the little shits how to use weapons............errr no!

XXXX"

exactly.....i mean we would use some common sense hopefully, unlike some parents seem to be doing.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd personally say no.

I take children 6 upwards for extra-curricular activities. Even at the youngest end of the spectrum, it astounds me how many don't understand the basic concepts of saying please and thank you, or of sharing equipment. Even at 6 & 7 you get the ones who confidently pipe up that "you cant tell me what to do".

The problems are already present way before the (historic) age of National Service! The money and resources spent of enforcing national services would be far better spent elsewhere.

The morals, work ethic and basic decency should start from the day nought in their home life and be reinforced throughout their education - but that'll take generations to change! "

But why should it...

I had it, my son was taught it...so its only this present generation who is lacking. ...what the hell happened ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" But why should it...

I had it, my son was taught it...so its only this present generation who is lacking. ...what the hell happened ? "

I also had it, as did my parents and as do my children. But there are many in parents 'age bracket' or do not share their morals or work ethic. There are far more in my own age group who do not share my values...

and I dread to see my daughters age group growing up. You only have to stand in the playground to hear other parents swearing at their children, discussing their exploits and boasting about their latest tax credit rise.

My children know right from wrong, they already know mummy and daddy go to work to get pennies, and they understand, albeit in a 5 year old fashion that bad behavior is not acceptable. Out of her class of 24, I expect less than a quarter of them have the same understanding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what good would national service do ?

seems like a lot of the armed forces spend their time on here looking for a shag

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(and before anyone jumps on the bandwagon of saying i am defiling the worth of our service personnel, that isn't the case)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" RESPECT...for ones parents, community and ones fellow man.....

something which todays parents DONT teach .......along with good morals and decency "

To get respect you have to earn it.

I've seen some people treat their children as little more than accessories or worse than I'd treat my dogs.

Give respect as well as discipline to them too and reap the benefits.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull


"Hang on...

we had sod all as kids, less than the average kid today and yet we didnt do what they do or dont do (work) ...

Christ they have tons thrown at them and yet it still isnt enough...

The difference being is the word RESPECT...for ones parents, community and ones fellow man.....

something which todays parents DONT teach .......along with good morals and decency "

I daresay, it is a "Generation" thing these days.

I come from a time when there was still respect for others, your parents, and yourself, plus and this was important, that your actions could impact on someone else, either positively or negatively.

But today's younger parents have been brought up where these older fashioned "values" have been pooh-poohed by the do-gooders, the so-called "experts and so on. Even Dr. Spock who wrote all the Parenting books back in the 60's and onwards, said in later life, he'd got it all wrong!!

Putting these eejits from today's society into National Service would be a red rag to a bull. They'd think they'd have won the lottery by having a gun to shoot with.

Put them in some form of Civil Brigade, to work on Community projects, and similar schemes.

But National Service, No!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Though community projects already exist by way of community service which, on the whole, seems to do no good at all... would doing this service before the crime took place actually make much difference to some of these people?

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden


"Hang on...

we had sod all as kids, less than the average kid today and yet we didnt do what they do or dont do (work) ...

Christ they have tons thrown at them and yet it still isnt enough...

The difference being is the word RESPECT...for ones parents, community and ones fellow man.....

something which todays parents DONT teach .......along with good morals and decency

I daresay, it is a "Generation" thing these days.

I come from a time when there was still respect for others, your parents, and yourself, plus and this was important, that your actions could impact on someone else, either positively or negatively.

But today's younger parents have been brought up where these older fashioned "values" have been pooh-poohed by the do-gooders, the so-called "experts and so on. Even Dr. Spock who wrote all the Parenting books back in the 60's and onwards, said in later life, he'd got it all wrong!!

Putting these eejits from today's society into National Service would be a red rag to a bull. They'd think they'd have won the lottery by having a gun to shoot with.

Put them in some form of Civil Brigade, to work on Community projects, and similar schemes.

But National Service, No!"

I'm with you!! Sound plan is a Civil Brigade, but no doubt some on here would protect the "poor little dears who have had it rough" from our dastardly plan!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham


"Hang on...

we had sod all as kids, less than the average kid today and yet we didnt do what they do or dont do (work) ...

Christ they have tons thrown at them and yet it still isnt enough...

The difference being is the word RESPECT...for ones parents, community and ones fellow man.....

something which todays parents DONT teach .......along with good morals and decency

I daresay, it is a "Generation" thing these days.

I come from a time when there was still respect for others, your parents, and yourself, plus and this was important, that your actions could impact on someone else, either positively or negatively.

But today's younger parents have been brought up where these older fashioned "values" have been pooh-poohed by the do-gooders, the so-called "experts and so on. Even Dr. Spock who wrote all the Parenting books back in the 60's and onwards, said in later life, he'd got it all wrong!!

Putting these eejits from today's society into National Service would be a red rag to a bull. They'd think they'd have won the lottery by having a gun to shoot with.

Put them in some form of Civil Brigade, to work on Community projects, and similar schemes.

But National Service, No!

I'm with you!! Sound plan is a Civil Brigade, but no doubt some on here would protect the "poor little dears who have had it rough" from our dastardly plan! "

The youth of today...

My 11 year old who raises money for sudan

my 19 year old friend at the fringe this week, doing a one woman show,

the 15 year old giving up his holiday to do the sound for a free club for infants

the 9 year old daughter of a friend who has finished her 7th triatholon

the 17 year old teaching my youngest golf

The young people i know make me proud,this thread is full of sweeping condemnation which helps no one.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull


"

My 11 year old who raises money for sudan

my 19 year old friend at the fringe this week, doing a one woman show,

the 15 year old giving up his holiday to do the sound for a free club for infants

the 9 year old daughter of a friend who has finished her 7th triatholon

the 17 year old teaching my youngest golf

The young people i know make me proud,this thread is full of sweeping condemnation which helps no one."

I couldn't agree more!!

What I have said elsewhere tonight, is that they rioting, looting etc is being done by a MINORITY.

There are youngsters however out on the streets in London etc, whose parent(s) are out of touch & have no control over their offspring! Today's youngsters have so much street cred these days, they know hoe far thy can go and what the authorities can and can't do in response.

It's time to take a higher ground with them and show then who is in charge. It will take a brave politician to change the mindset of some of those parents whose little "darlings" are creating havoc tonight

I fully accept that the vast majority of people across the UK will abhor what is going on. Equally, there are decent people who have raised decent children and that has to be applauded.

But it's the eejits who need to be tagetted more so than others, and their parents too.

I watch young couples on the street where I live, who are involved with the Police almost on a weekly basis, whose juvenile offspring are always dismissed from school, and the benefits "industry" pays overtime for them each week.

Havinga scrap with the Police, with authority is almost a badge of honour for them, it's an achievement. That's the culture we need to break, and to stop youngsters from copying.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place


"I say yes but, not necessarily in the military but in the service of the community "

+1

Cyprus has it too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes its in the minority and there are many many fine young people in this country who have got their heads around life. But the thread is about the rioting morons and how to deal with them. Those who are switched on don't need the debate and it doesn't mean the young good citizens are fogotten in all of this. If parents can raise good children then its liek the majority think - all children react to discipline when their parents are taking their upbringing seriously. Some simply aren't doing that and are even defending their actions in the media now that the cases are being heard in court. Hats off to all of those parents who reported their offspring to the police too.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I don't think national service would help any more....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe a "bootcamp" of sorts for those NOT in work and they can earn their dole instead of just geting it. ages from 16 to 18 for both sexes and doing community based work etc. But its run like the army with the same values instilled.

I also think the parents of said convicted rioters should be held somewhat accountable.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I have to say I have had to house 2 people out of the police station who was charged with rioting offences and it annoyed me in so many ways....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no no no, the reason why our british service men and women are so good at what they do is because they want to be there,,in other countrys wher there national service like america they are just there treding water and are not dedicated to the job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its been proven that those youngster in are actively involved buliding their communities up are least likely to smash it down. they dont want their own hard work ruined. so let them build their own youth centres etc. let them run it with assistance ..let them be responsible for the maintaining etc. ...see the buggers loot that and burn it. cuz they wont.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

a couple of things... are we talking about community service for everyone? or only for those who can't get jobs??? for example.. what about those so set off for uni straight after school... or those who have apprenticships lined up? or those who have jobs?

how long do you want it for.... for example in some countries it is 2 years... others up to 5 yrs....

at what rate are you paying these people... minimum wage? because in the end all it then is is cheap labour.. and you are then putting other people out of jobs.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Earning their dole.end of and 2 yrs min and both sexes. if ya got a job then alls well. no job ...its bootcamp. tuff shite.

let them start repairing the damage some of them do, maybe they will respect it a bit more ?

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

I don't see why anyone who is not working and is or should be looking for a job AND is on state benefits shouldn't do work of some sort!

No waiting time, just "Ok, you are looking to receive benefits, report to X on Monday" Making people do tasks for their benefits was proposed in the 1960's, but the unions didn't like the idea because it would mean that their members would be priced out of a job!

Things are a lot different now and there is absoloutly no reason whey people getting benefits shouldn't do something meaningful for the community.

Loads of you are still grabbing on to the "National Service" actually meaning in the forces, WHY??? It is service for the nation! It can be anything from picking up litter to joining the forces at choice!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NO to National Service... For the reasons above...

AND: This nation only needs for the parents to be allowed to "correctly" correct their own children...

We have ( for a large part ) failed this generation... We could still pull this back for the next, and future generations to come.

The rare criminally abusive parent has always existed... But this is NOT the rule by which the majority shall be judged...

Give us back the rights to form our own good society and we can shelf this idea of destroying our military and civilian services by being further made to throw our children away...

Rant over Viccy!

;-)

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By *ouple1234Couple
over a year ago

BELFAST UK

NO if its for people who do crimes and not worried about the law then i wouldnt want them fighting beside me in a war zone who ever says yes to that needs to take a good hard think about what they are saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its the premise of national service which has become a possible option.

Run along the same lines but it doesnt have to BE in the present armed forces so therefore not interfering with them. It certainly doesnt have to involve arms of any kinds.

Just a bootcamp style and run in a military fashion. In the community, for the community.

Oh and yes, we now need to get back to basics with parenting. parents now need their powers back of these kids.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Community Service sounds like a better plan than forcing them into the military. I think all youngsters should do two years mandatory service sometime between the ages of 18-23 that they can take at their discretion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i say yes too but like quite a few people on here not in the army, there could be programmes set up for things in the community that people could do which would give them experience and many important life skills that employers are looking for nowadays.

Theres so many people leaving school now with no idea what they want to do and with not many opportunities or jobs available to be honest, but i feel why should people leave school and just be on handouts from things like job seekers without giving something back in a way. i understand there are the very genuine people on jobseekers etc that are actively looking for work and dont want to be on it and im not saying they shuldnt get any help and support while unemployed but i feel there are too many people out there which feel it is just their right to be on job seekers who have no intentions of looking for a days work as its too easy to live off benefits maybe if these people had to earn their money in some kind of way like a natinal service in the community it may make people change their attitude towards it and also then thus giving them more experience and life skills etc to then be able to apply for more jobs and possibly be more successful in getting a good job which they enjoy and hopefully will stay in.

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By *ldestswingerintownMan
over a year ago

Lancaster

[Removed by poster at 14/08/11 12:41:14]

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By *ldestswingerintownMan
over a year ago

Lancaster

problem is that a lot of these inner-city young people, for many and various reasons, have almost zero intelectual ability - they can't do basic maths, they can hardly speak properly let alone read and write - they are virtualy unemployable in todays hi-tech employment environment.

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By *andKCouple
over a year ago

Norfolk

would it apply equally for girls as well as boys?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, No, No.

Why make the majority suffer because of the minority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When my son was much younger, around 12 ish...

he and his mates often voiced their opinions of what there was to do and what they wanted. Some came up with a great concept of each town having one major youth center which also taught skills, such as motor mechanics, welding, woodwork,music etc....you know the type of thing.

Having those that attend also be on the panel that make the decisions and also as befrienders of those new joining.

This was started in some towns and cities...but sadly declined due to lack of resourses etc.

We need places like this even more now than years ago.

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