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feminism ? or is it equality we all want

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

i have noticed it banded about on the forums in some cases without fully understanding it

it makes me think back to my great aunt and her early days in the work place when there was no laws in place that many take for granted today

an example would be if one of her male work colleagues grabbed her tits or ass in jest, or because they could

(this would happen frequently)

it had to be accepted or was labeled a trouble maker feminist and sacked or just had to put up with it.

its nice to know society in some areas have moved on for the better

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied tous under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"i have noticed it banded about on the forums in some cases without fully understanding it

it makes me think back to my great aunt and her early days in the work place when there was no laws in place that many take for granted today

an example would be if one of her male work colleagues grabbed her tits or ass in jest, or because they could

(this would happen frequently)

it had to be accepted or was labeled a trouble maker feminist and sacked or just had to put up with it.

its nice to know society in some areas have moved on for the better

"

Sadly it's still very common for women to be sexually harassed in the work place and elsewhere and be accused of being "feminists" or not understanding "banter".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied tous under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now)."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Feminism is so misunderstood and blindly hated. I am a feminist because I want everyone to be given equal rights and opportunities regardless of gender.

Regardless of gender

REGARDLESS.

That even means men. Because equal means the same.

Even some extreme feminists don't adhere to this principle. To which I say; if you call yourself a feminist and want to promote women ahead of men - then you're missing the point.

/rant

*Not aimed at anyone in the thread, just fuckwits in general*

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

my great aunt who from all accounts has had a very colourful life indeed, we were watching some 80;s flick film today and it came about by chance. i was shocked in way that it was allowed so openly upto that period

yes it still happens but i hope in decline

its sorta makes me think i would be lovely if we were all equal from the go start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The two top jobs in the country are owned by women so stupid question really.

It's 2017 in UK and women are rightly equal that is all end of debate.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Feminism is so misunderstood and blindly hated. I am a feminist because I want everyone to be given equal rights and opportunities regardless of gender.

Regardless of gender

REGARDLESS.

That even means men. Because equal means the same.

Even some extreme feminists don't adhere to this principle. To which I say; if you call yourself a feminist and want to promote women ahead of men - then you're missing the point.

/rant

*Not aimed at anyone in the thread, just fuckwits in general*"
yes very much so

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Zzzzzzzzzz bed time for me this is so boring and pointless.

Nighty night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm absolutely bored of hearing about it.

Can't feminists do feminism quietly?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

when thatcher came into power taking the top job in the country brought in a raft of laws ( and was fought all the way) for equality and female rights in the workplace and beyond, upto then nothing was in place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The two top jobs in the country are owned by women so stupid question really.

It's 2017 in UK and women are rightly equal that is all end of debate. "

That was the same in the 80's though, and gender equality still had a long way to go.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

if you do not like a thread simple pass it by and look elsewhere, plenty about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP seems to know care a lot about the UK even though he claims to be from South Africa , not that i care really its getting comical..

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

if you wish to follow me in the forums feel free to do so, as for cheap remarks i find it best to ignore them, makes life far easier

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

to clarify i was born i south africa moved here as child with parents and we have settled fine and well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"to clarify i was born i south africa moved here as child with parents and we have settled fine and well"

Lol someones rattled.

Sweet dreams.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

be nice if it was equal xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles."
That is right, there is a witch hunt for everyone who have muscles and the police have the right to stop you and take saliva examples and drug test you for steroids, it is big news in the bodybuilding community, here is a utube link of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gS1iTVJLI

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles."
that would be to the extreme , in a way you can look at countries where male rule is dominated and look at the effects that causes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.That is right, there is a witch hunt for everyone who have muscles and the police have the right to stop you and take saliva examples and drug test you for steroids, it is big news in the bodybuilding community, here is a utube link of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gS1iTVJLI"

My sympathy for Swedes faded long ago unfortunately, I haven't seen any real resistance to any of this nonsese from the native male population. What they are allowing their "new compatriots" to do to their women is pretty awful as well. They're just totally pacified.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.That is right, there is a witch hunt for everyone who have muscles and the police have the right to stop you and take saliva examples and drug test you for steroids, it is big news in the bodybuilding community, here is a utube link of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gS1iTVJLI

My sympathy for Swedes faded long ago unfortunately, I haven't seen any real resistance to any of this nonsese from the native male population. What they are allowing their "new compatriots" to do to their women is pretty awful as well. They're just totally pacified.

"
Yes sweden is a good example of what happens if they run it, although they are fundamentalists, the men have to man up and fight for their rights, the sweden I remember was with abba, good old days.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

you could be right shag like in other countries, uk america where male dominated the rulers and look at the state of whats left.. blair for example

hence it needs to be equal and not just one sex running the show

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles. that would be to the extreme , in a way you can look at countries where male rule is dominated and look at the effects that causes."
Yes, that is to the extreme and yes in other countries as well, the best way is to have it equal rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"you could be right shag like in other countries, uk america where male dominated the rulers and look at the state of whats left.. blair for example

hence it needs to be equal and not just one sex running the show"
Yeah, there male is dominating, it would be good to have the same amount of men and women who leads, like a coalition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Extreme feminism is damaging for women, when there are women who shout and scream from the rooftops because a man said "hi" no one wants to listen to real women's issues.

I think we have all seen the red haired woman that has become the face of radical feminism, but in the video has anyone actually listened to what she was saying, in actual fact, she was saying that feminists do not want to keep fathers from their children and so on and so forth, but the way she came across made her tone louder than her actual words.

The small issues that tend to get covered by the media, the manspreading, the mansplaining, and so on, takes away from the serious issues, such as female genital mutilation, honour killings, and the inexcusable high rate of women who die at the hands of a partner or ex partner.

There is a girl who.libes in Birmingham, who was flown in from Afghanistan after she was attacked by the taliban simply because she's a female, and wanted to go to school, she was shot in the head,and now she stands up and speaks out for women who are really being oppressed, that is where feminism should be focusing energy, not on how a bloke with big balls sits on a train, or if it's offencive to say that someone looks pretty today, choose your battles,or the war will be lost

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"Extreme feminism is damaging for women, when there are women who shout and scream from the rooftops because a man said "hi" no one wants to listen to real women's issues.

I think we have all seen the red haired woman that has become the face of radical feminism, but in the video has anyone actually listened to what she was saying, in actual fact, she was saying that feminists do not want to keep fathers from their children and so on and so forth, but the way she came across made her tone louder than her actual words.

The small issues that tend to get covered by the media, the manspreading, the mansplaining, and so on, takes away from the serious issues, such as female genital mutilation, honour killings, and the inexcusable high rate of women who die at the hands of a partner or ex partner.

There is a girl who.libes in Birmingham, who was flown in from Afghanistan after she was attacked by the taliban simply because she's a female, and wanted to go to school, she was shot in the head,and now she stands up and speaks out for women who are really being oppressed, that is where feminism should be focusing energy, not on how a bloke with big balls sits on a train, or if it's offencive to say that someone looks pretty today, choose your battles,or the war will be lost"

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied tous under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now)."

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman?

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By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world "

Except on Fab

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1st wave feminism was about giving women rights - an extremely important movement.

2nd wave feminism was about equality - again, absolutely vital.

3rd wave feminism is about giving women more rights than men, and preferential treatment. It's been married with intersecitionality and is now a banner for the "social justice warrior" movement which led to Antifa.

It's responsible for turning a record number of women away from feminism. Statistically, less women in developed countries identify feminists than any time in the last 50 years.

Interestingly, third wave feminists often like to say "straight, white, cisgendered men" have some kind of privilege. That way of thinking is what a massive number of second wave feminists and public intellectuals pinpoint as being wrong with third wave feminism - this sense of victimhood and entitlement.

There's not a single law or right in the UK or US applying to men which women don't have. And in fact, empirical data shows that the law, when discharged by the judiciary, has a bias TOWARDS women.

Anyways, where was I...

What was the question?

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world "

What a priviledge it is to be held accountable for the failures of every other group, be held to a higher standard than every other group and get demonized by every other group as those groups leech off of us like parasites.

It's thanks to straight white men that you live in a first world country that allows you and your friends to "march" in the streets, whine to the media and demand free money/unearned promotions, whilst they work and pick up the bill.

Having every non-achieving undesirable as our burden is NOT a priviledge, let me tell you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world "

Surely the whole concept if equality is to treat everyone as individuals, thus ensuring were all treated fairly?

Sadly statements like that stir up the very hatred that people are trying to combat.

There is inequality in the world towards women and some of it is shockingly abusive. Highlighting it and raising awareness will educate people. Telling others how good they have it and generalising their lives won't? There's always exceptions to the rule.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Equal rights however should mean equal. Women have the "right" to wear trousers yet it's not socially acceptable for a man to wear a dress.

Men are expected to help with the household chores, but try asking the wife to change the oil on the car and that's a "man"s job.

I'm all in favour of sexual equality, but only if it is actually equality.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Feminism is so misunderstood and blindly hated. I am a feminist because I want everyone to be given equal rights and opportunities regardless of gender.

Regardless of gender

REGARDLESS.

That even means men. Because equal means the same.

Even some extreme feminists don't adhere to this principle. To which I say; if you call yourself a feminist and want to promote women ahead of men - then you're missing the point.

/rant

*Not aimed at anyone in the thread, just fuckwits in general*"

Spot on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equal rights however should mean equal. Women have the "right" to wear trousers yet it's not socially acceptable for a man to wear a dress.

Men are expected to help with the household chores, but try asking the wife to change the oil on the car and that's a "man"s job.

I'm all in favour of sexual equality, but only if it is actually equality."

Very well said. How about custody battles? We should make those equal too... Or prison sentencing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and suicide rates, are we going to address why young men are offing themselves in record numbers? It must be all that priviledge.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm more than happy to have a woman on top..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world

Except on Fab "

Exactly, now get to your knees and kiss my feet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Name me one right that women do not have that I as a man have as legally secured right simply because I am man?

I can name some legally held rights that women have and female rights advocates Harley ever seen to campaign a change for.

Right to female genital integrity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Name me one right that women do not have that I as a man have as legally secured right simply because I am man?

I can name some legally held rights that women have and female rights advocates Harley ever seen to campaign a change for.

Right to female genital integrity"

I'm going to play devils advocate (Though I don't necessarily agree with all sentiments in here).

Look around the world and you'll see examples of women being denied education, paid less for the same job and even treated like objects?

Though let's juxtapose....why do women retire earlier though have a greater life expectancy? How about equal for everyone? Leave gender, race at out if it. Human beings are born equal...lets keep that?

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By *inkyChrissy99TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol


"Equal rights however should mean equal. Women have the "right" to wear trousers yet it's not socially acceptable for a man to wear a dress.

Men are expected to help with the household chores, but try asking the wife to change the oil on the car and that's a "man"s job.

I'm all in favour of sexual equality, but only if it is actually equality."

This feminists often seem to loose sight of equality.

I want equality but that works both ways.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone is equal. But some are more equal than others.

There will never be true equality until the mindsets of everyone changes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have noticed it banded about on the forums in some cases without fully understanding it

it makes me think back to my great aunt and her early days in the work place when there was no laws in place that many take for granted today

an example would be if one of her male work colleagues grabbed her tits or ass in jest, or because they could

(this would happen frequently)

it had to be accepted or was labeled a trouble maker feminist and sacked or just had to put up with it.

its nice to know society in some areas have moved on for the better

"

Its a well known fact in the factories it was the women that were the ones always molesting and ganging up on guys , in my teens in factorys and fish houses women were over the top with the guys, constant barrages of filth hurled at guys, gangs of them grabbibg guys and sexually humiliating them...

Guys rarely if ever did such things...

Women had it all their own way and if any of you guys working in factories were it was mostly women working there will know I speak the truth...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"i have noticed it banded about on the forums in some cases without fully understanding it

it makes me think back to my great aunt and her early days in the work place when there was no laws in place that many take for granted today

an example would be if one of her male work colleagues grabbed her tits or ass in jest, or because they could

(this would happen frequently)

it had to be accepted or was labeled a trouble maker feminist and sacked or just had to put up with it.

its nice to know society in some areas have moved on for the better

Its a well known fact in the factories it was the women that were the ones always molesting and ganging up on guys , in my teens in factorys and fish houses women were over the top with the guys, constant barrages of filth hurled at guys, gangs of them grabbibg guys and sexually humiliating them...

Guys rarely if ever did such things...

Women had it all their own way and if any of you guys working in factories were it was mostly women working there will know I speak the truth..."
when she spoke about it it was an office job where it was the normal to grope the female staff and expect them to just accept it, my post was that times and peoples attitudes have a long way from them days, this can only be a good thing

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles."

If you actually read that link he was arrested because they thought he might be using steroids.

Now, that seems pretty unfair and silly if it's a general rule.

But it has absolutely nothing at all to do with feminism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need to define if we are speaking of women's rights in the UK and Europe or the rest of the world. We are all aware of some of the atrocities carried out by male dominated cultures in other countries whilst we sympathise with those countries are we as a country supposed to dicate how other cultures live ? Look what's happened in Afghanistan. Iraq and libiya where we objected to supposed dictatorship rules...all those countries are now worse off as a whole. Men and women are different but deserve equal protection under the laws. Is it sexist to open a door for a lady or just good manners, or does it demean a lady as insinuating that she not as capable as a man in opening a door. Same with carrying heavy bags.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"my great aunt who from all accounts has had a very colourful life indeed, we were watching some 80;s flick film today and it came about by chance. i was shocked in way that it was allowed so openly upto that period

yes it still happens but i hope in decline

its sorta makes me think i would be lovely if we were all equal from the go start."

if you look at TV it was really un PC and does give you an idea of what was acceptable back then.

i worked in a buttie shop as a teen at the end of the 90s and was often sexually harrassed by the men of the fruit and veg shop next door. one thought it was funny to try and shove a cucumber up my skirt. which was probably unhygenic as well as not cool.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"my great aunt who from all accounts has had a very colourful life indeed, we were watching some 80;s flick film today and it came about by chance. i was shocked in way that it was allowed so openly upto that period

yes it still happens but i hope in decline

its sorta makes me think i would be lovely if we were all equal from the go start.

if you look at TV it was really un PC and does give you an idea of what was acceptable back then.

i worked in a buttie shop as a teen at the end of the 90s and was often sexually harrassed by the men of the fruit and veg shop next door. one thought it was funny to try and shove a cucumber up my skirt. which was probably unhygenic as well as not cool."

that should say end of the 80s, i wasn't a teen 20 yrs ago lol.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied to us under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman? "

if you're fortunate enough not to run into misogyny anywhere then lucky you. but seeing as we're on this site alone i'm very surprised at that.

me personally, not a lot now. sometimes i get mansplained or treated like a don't matter sexually but i can't think of anything more than that.

actually i think i'll include with those the fact that some men think my appearance should be appealing to them and if it is not then i shouldn't be showing my face or body publicly on a website, or if i reject them they think they have some kind of right to then mention my appearance and how it isn't appealing. i know this second one is more of a mental issue they have and they maybe can't help that but both are perpetuated by a misogynistic belief that my body is here only for their pleasure and not for mine in my own right.

i'm the main carer for my children with one partner (my other ex we have 50/50 care of his children) so i brought them up at my time and expense and my ex just walked away and there was a safety net to protect me and my kids (i suppose) but it wasn't great and he never was forced to contribute to his own children, there is societal pressure for women to do so (more their time rather than money) but i was happy to look after my kids anyway so didn't give too much of a shit. and please do not tell me the CSA is there to do that as they failed me so as far as i'm concerned he was never pressured to contribute to his kids at all.

and take a look at your media, i hardly look at it now because it doesn't appeal to my mindset. but it's always acting like it's their business what a woman looks like and that looks are important. lol, someone above mentioned a woman is running the country and even she has had a news story going on about her sexy legs.

there's probably other stuff, it won't affect me coz i don't listen to it.

so yeah mansplaining, my body isn't mine, and my feelings don't matter (which i think the english tend to be good at invalidating all peoples feelings anyway, we're good at that, but i more mean in a way where myself a person does not matter coz i'm here to please men sexually and aesthetically).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally."

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"1st wave feminism was about giving women rights - an extremely important movement.

2nd wave feminism was about equality - again, absolutely vital.

3rd wave feminism is about giving women more rights than men, and preferential treatment. It's been married with intersecitionality and is now a banner for the "social justice warrior" movement which led to Antifa.

It's responsible for turning a record number of women away from feminism. Statistically, less women in developed countries identify feminists than any time in the last 50 years.

Interestingly, third wave feminists often like to say "straight, white, cisgendered men" have some kind of privilege. That way of thinking is what a massive number of second wave feminists and public intellectuals pinpoint as being wrong with third wave feminism - this sense of victimhood and entitlement.

There's not a single law or right in the UK or US applying to men which women don't have. And in fact, empirical data shows that the law, when discharged by the judiciary, has a bias TOWARDS women.

Anyways, where was I...

What was the question?

Mrs x "

Good points. I never saw a 3rd wave feminist who wanted to lift a finger for equal pay in occupations where women earn more than men

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory. "

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?"

Didn't follow your stairs point sorry. I do think more should be done by the state to enable cheaper and more widely available childcare, the burden if which does fall more on women. However i don't think anything needs to be done to encourage more women to study engineering because they already have equal opportunities to, just most women don't want to. Because men and woman are different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Didn't follow your stairs point sorry. I do think more should be done by the state to enable cheaper and more widely available childcare, the burden if which does fall more on women. However i don't think anything needs to be done to encourage more women to study engineering because they already have equal opportunities to, just most women don't want to. Because men and woman are different. "

I'm talking about the concept of equality as a whole, not just in regards to males and females.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/07/17 13:34:40]

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

love how in a topic about feminism has turned into a topic about mens rights.

this always happens as well. if anyone is wondering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.

If you actually read that link he was arrested because they thought he might be using steroids.

Now, that seems pretty unfair and silly if it's a general rule.

But it has absolutely nothing at all to do with feminism. "
Yes it is and muscle profiling is the general rule there and I cant see any equality about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With some exceptions, women as a group are better/more suited to some things than men.

With some exceptions, men as a group are better/more suited to some things than women.

You can social justice it all you like in the name of equality, but that is determined by nature. That would be Mother Nature too, apparently. ..

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

"

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!"

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men. "

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!"

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men. "
Yes, it is going very good with the economy there. I think it could be cos I get all the swedish meatballs from ikea lol.

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied to us under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman?

if you're fortunate enough not to run into misogyny anywhere then lucky you. but seeing as we're on this site alone i'm very surprised at that.

me personally, not a lot now. sometimes i get mansplained or treated like a don't matter sexually but i can't think of anything more than that.

actually i think i'll include with those the fact that some men think my appearance should be appealing to them and if it is not then i shouldn't be showing my face or body publicly on a website, or if i reject them they think they have some kind of right to then mention my appearance and how it isn't appealing. i know this second one is more of a mental issue they have and they maybe can't help that but both are perpetuated by a misogynistic belief that my body is here only for their pleasure and not for mine in my own right.

i'm the main carer for my children with one partner (my other ex we have 50/50 care of his children) so i brought them up at my time and expense and my ex just walked away and there was a safety net to protect me and my kids (i suppose) but it wasn't great and he never was forced to contribute to his own children, there is societal pressure for women to do so (more their time rather than money) but i was happy to look after my kids anyway so didn't give too much of a shit. and please do not tell me the CSA is there to do that as they failed me so as far as i'm concerned he was never pressured to contribute to his kids at all.

and take a look at your media, i hardly look at it now because it doesn't appeal to my mindset. but it's always acting like it's their business what a woman looks like and that looks are important. lol, someone above mentioned a woman is running the country and even she has had a news story going on about her sexy legs.

there's probably other stuff, it won't affect me coz i don't listen to it.

so yeah mansplaining, my body isn't mine, and my feelings don't matter (which i think the english tend to be good at invalidating all peoples feelings anyway, we're good at that, but i more mean in a way where myself a person does not matter coz i'm here to please men sexually and aesthetically)."

Of course my life has been affected by the previous partriarchal generations- how could they not? They shaped society. However, I really don't feel that in this day and age, women are denied rights or laws to protect them in this country.Your family affairs are not the business of the government or law unless you ask them to interject on your behalf. If you couldn't come to an amicable agreement with your ex with regards to childcare or finances, I really don't see how that is the fault of society. The fault lies with the pair of you.

As for how women are supposed to look- the most viscous magazines and newspaper articles about women are written by women for women. We can be our own worst enemy. Men are aware how conscious of we are of our looks. How many times have I seen threads about dick pics, where the standard response is- tell him how small it is. We (men and women) both exploit the others known and obvious weaknesses to score petty points.

I'm not saying there isn't improvement to be made in the way human beings treat other human beings. But I don't feel that I have ever been prevented from doing anything in my life on the basis that I am a female. And that's what I was querying with you.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied to us under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman?

if you're fortunate enough not to run into misogyny anywhere then lucky you. but seeing as we're on this site alone i'm very surprised at that.

me personally, not a lot now. sometimes i get mansplained or treated like a don't matter sexually but i can't think of anything more than that.

actually i think i'll include with those the fact that some men think my appearance should be appealing to them and if it is not then i shouldn't be showing my face or body publicly on a website, or if i reject them they think they have some kind of right to then mention my appearance and how it isn't appealing. i know this second one is more of a mental issue they have and they maybe can't help that but both are perpetuated by a misogynistic belief that my body is here only for their pleasure and not for mine in my own right.

i'm the main carer for my children with one partner (my other ex we have 50/50 care of his children) so i brought them up at my time and expense and my ex just walked away and there was a safety net to protect me and my kids (i suppose) but it wasn't great and he never was forced to contribute to his own children, there is societal pressure for women to do so (more their time rather than money) but i was happy to look after my kids anyway so didn't give too much of a shit. and please do not tell me the CSA is there to do that as they failed me so as far as i'm concerned he was never pressured to contribute to his kids at all.

and take a look at your media, i hardly look at it now because it doesn't appeal to my mindset. but it's always acting like it's their business what a woman looks like and that looks are important. lol, someone above mentioned a woman is running the country and even she has had a news story going on about her sexy legs.

there's probably other stuff, it won't affect me coz i don't listen to it.

so yeah mansplaining, my body isn't mine, and my feelings don't matter (which i think the english tend to be good at invalidating all peoples feelings anyway, we're good at that, but i more mean in a way where myself a person does not matter coz i'm here to please men sexually and aesthetically).

Of course my life has been affected by the previous partriarchal generations- how could they not? They shaped society. However, I really don't feel that in this day and age, women are denied rights or laws to protect them in this country.Your family affairs are not the business of the government or law unless you ask them to interject on your behalf. If you couldn't come to an amicable agreement with your ex with regards to childcare or finances, I really don't see how that is the fault of society. The fault lies with the pair of you.

As for how women are supposed to look- the most viscous magazines and newspaper articles about women are written by women for women. We can be our own worst enemy. Men are aware how conscious of we are of our looks. How many times have I seen threads about dick pics, where the standard response is- tell him how small it is. We (men and women) both exploit the others known and obvious weaknesses to score petty points.

I'm not saying there isn't improvement to be made in the way human beings treat other human beings. But I don't feel that I have ever been prevented from doing anything in my life on the basis that I am a female. And that's what I was querying with you. "

actually the government felt it was their right to intervene, and that i had to tell them who the father of those children were. despite me leaving an abusive relationship with him, where a neighbour did call the police one time.

then they did nothing about that.

might not be because i'm a woman but still you're incorrect about your statement.

i don't really care about the patriarch any more. i think only backwards people follow it now anyway and because it suits them to, not because it gives them any advantage. but society is not the law, we wouldn't have prisons if it was, society tries to shape people. so laws or not, it still affects people.

i've also had a previous boss tell me he didn't want women to work and thought they should stay at home and he only employed them because the law said he should. half of us working for him were women, all wanting employment. so yeah the law covered me there, and he wasn't being malicious and didn't hate women he just thought he knew what was better for us than we knew for ourselves.

in reality laws shouldn't even be needed for this stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"love how in a topic about feminism has turned into a topic about mens rights.

this always happens as well. if anyone is wondering."

This happens on every single thread I read about feminism!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?"

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"love how in a topic about feminism has turned into a topic about mens rights.

this always happens as well. if anyone is wondering.

This happens on every single thread I read about feminism! "

these issues are never so problematic that they start their own topics about it. or offer any solutions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Swear the forums seem way behind compared to the rest of the internet when they talk about feminism lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"love how in a topic about feminism has turned into a topic about mens rights.

this always happens as well. if anyone is wondering."
yeah the whole 'what about this' type arguments and gotchas are pretty bad, for any debate/topic really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested..."

I was only addressing equality itself not feminism or gender inequality.

Apologies for confusion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm dying to see how a men's rights thread would go down, but it's too warm and I don't have the energy to start one

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"I'm dying to see how a men's rights thread would go down, but it's too warm and I don't have the energy to start one "

If it could be filled with women talking about feminism and women's issues, that would be fantastic. Oh and a group of women explaining to men exactly what needs to be done to sort out men's rights and going off on tangents about other things but not explaining how they could be solved or are linked.

Add in a few negative generalisations about men and it sounds like a truly interesting read on the topic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm dying to see how a men's rights thread would go down, but it's too warm and I don't have the energy to start one

If it could be filled with women talking about feminism and women's issues, that would be fantastic. Oh and a group of women explaining to men exactly what needs to be done to sort out men's rights and going off on tangents about other things but not explaining how they could be solved or are linked.

Add in a few negative generalisations about men and it sounds like a truly interesting read on the topic."

Yeah, definitely not doing it now

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By *.1079Man
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

Women are still going on about equal rights

The prime minister's a woman

The chief of police is a woman

The chief of the fire service a woman.

The German prime minister's a woman

Even Doctor Who is now a woman

When is it going to end

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women are still going on about equal rights

The prime minister's a woman

The chief of police is a woman

The chief of the fire service a woman.

The German prime minister's a woman

Even Doctor Who is now a woman

When is it going to end"

When Lara Croft is a man? Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women are still going on about equal rights

The prime minister's a woman

The chief of police is a woman

The chief of the fire service a woman.

The German prime minister's a woman

Even Doctor Who is now a woman

When is it going to end"
that seems more to do with representation than actual rights

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By *.1079Man
over a year ago

Lincolnshire


"Women are still going on about equal rights

The prime minister's a woman

The chief of police is a woman

The chief of the fire service a woman.

The German prime minister's a woman

Even Doctor Who is now a woman

When is it going to end that seems more to do with representation than actual rights "

Surly women fighting for the rights to represent themselves is the the same as fighting for equal rights

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied to us under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman?

if you're fortunate enough not to run into misogyny anywhere then lucky you. but seeing as we're on this site alone i'm very surprised at that.

me personally, not a lot now. sometimes i get mansplained or treated like a don't matter sexually but i can't think of anything more than that.

actually i think i'll include with those the fact that some men think my appearance should be appealing to them and if it is not then i shouldn't be showing my face or body publicly on a website, or if i reject them they think they have some kind of right to then mention my appearance and how it isn't appealing. i know this second one is more of a mental issue they have and they maybe can't help that but both are perpetuated by a misogynistic belief that my body is here only for their pleasure and not for mine in my own right.

i'm the main carer for my children with one partner (my other ex we have 50/50 care of his children) so i brought them up at my time and expense and my ex just walked away and there was a safety net to protect me and my kids (i suppose) but it wasn't great and he never was forced to contribute to his own children, there is societal pressure for women to do so (more their time rather than money) but i was happy to look after my kids anyway so didn't give too much of a shit. and please do not tell me the CSA is there to do that as they failed me so as far as i'm concerned he was never pressured to contribute to his kids at all.

and take a look at your media, i hardly look at it now because it doesn't appeal to my mindset. but it's always acting like it's their business what a woman looks like and that looks are important. lol, someone above mentioned a woman is running the country and even she has had a news story going on about her sexy legs.

there's probably other stuff, it won't affect me coz i don't listen to it.

so yeah mansplaining, my body isn't mine, and my feelings don't matter (which i think the english tend to be good at invalidating all peoples feelings anyway, we're good at that, but i more mean in a way where myself a person does not matter coz i'm here to please men sexually and aesthetically).

Of course my life has been affected by the previous partriarchal generations- how could they not? They shaped society. However, I really don't feel that in this day and age, women are denied rights or laws to protect them in this country.Your family affairs are not the business of the government or law unless you ask them to interject on your behalf. If you couldn't come to an amicable agreement with your ex with regards to childcare or finances, I really don't see how that is the fault of society. The fault lies with the pair of you.

As for how women are supposed to look- the most viscous magazines and newspaper articles about women are written by women for women. We can be our own worst enemy. Men are aware how conscious of we are of our looks. How many times have I seen threads about dick pics, where the standard response is- tell him how small it is. We (men and women) both exploit the others known and obvious weaknesses to score petty points.

I'm not saying there isn't improvement to be made in the way human beings treat other human beings. But I don't feel that I have ever been prevented from doing anything in my life on the basis that I am a female. And that's what I was querying with you.

actually the government felt it was their right to intervene, and that i had to tell them who the father of those children were. despite me leaving an abusive relationship with him, where a neighbour did call the police one time.

then they did nothing about that.

might not be because i'm a woman but still you're incorrect about your statement.

i don't really care about the patriarch any more. i think only backwards people follow it now anyway and because it suits them to, not because it gives them any advantage. but society is not the law, we wouldn't have prisons if it was, society tries to shape people. so laws or not, it still affects people.

i've also had a previous boss tell me he didn't want women to work and thought they should stay at home and he only employed them because the law said he should. half of us working for him were women, all wanting employment. so yeah the law covered me there, and he wasn't being malicious and didn't hate women he just thought he knew what was better for us than we knew for ourselves.

in reality laws shouldn't even be needed for this stuff."

First of all, you didnt mention that your ex was abusive - Im sorry that you went through that. But if the law intervened on your behalf it surely demonstrates that women have rights and protections in this society? Im a little bit confused about this story, so perhaps its best to leave that particular argument there, as clearly I would need to know exactly what you are talking about, and I dont!

Im not sure what you mean by "society is not the law" - we all, as as a society, vote for a government to lead us. They create and uphold laws that protect and defend us. The laws we have are reflective of the society we live in, no?

In my first "proper" job, I worked for a franchise owned by a woman. My manager under her was a woman. When I told my manager I needed to take time off to look after my sick baby, she told me that her boss hadnt wanted to employ women of my age, and this was exactly the reason why - they wanted unexpected time off, maternity leave and so on. Its not just men who hold these sorts of opinions. In reality, it would be lovely if we could live in a loving and generous utopia, where we dont need these rules, but we dont, so we do.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Im not a feminist. I believe in equal rights

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested..."

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Im not a feminist. I believe in equal rights"

Me too, i have a mother, a wife and hopefully daughter one day. I want them to have the same opportunities in life as me. It's in my interests.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

"

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Name me one right that women do not have that I as a man have as legally secured right simply because I am man?

I can name some legally held rights that women have and female rights advocates Harley ever seen to campaign a change for.

Right to female genital integrity

I'm going to play devils advocate (Though I don't necessarily agree with all sentiments in here).

Look around the world and you'll see examples of women being denied education, paid less for the same job and even treated like objects?

Though let's juxtapose....why do women retire earlier though have a greater life expectancy? How about equal for everyone? Leave gender, race at out if it. Human beings are born equal...lets keep that? "

Feminism in a western liberal society neither active democracy.

It is only alive and tolerated in these societies. You try to impose that shit in other countries, you'd at the least be kicked bout and at the most imprisoned or killed.

I read this thread as in reference to feminism in the West, not the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not a feminist. I believe in equal rights"

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"Name me one right that women do not have that I as a man have as legally secured right simply because I am man?

I can name some legally held rights that women have and female rights advocates Harley ever seen to campaign a change for.

Right to female genital integrity

I'm going to play devils advocate (Though I don't necessarily agree with all sentiments in here).

Look around the world and you'll see examples of women being denied education, paid less for the same job and even treated like objects?

Though let's juxtapose....why do women retire earlier though have a greater life expectancy? How about equal for everyone? Leave gender, race at out if it. Human beings are born equal...lets keep that?

Feminism in a western liberal society neither active democracy.

It is only alive and tolerated in these societies. You try to impose that shit in other countries, you'd at the least be kicked bout and at the most imprisoned or killed.

I read this thread as in reference to feminism in the West, not the world."

But we didnt always have such freedom. It didnt happen by magic! It was fought for. Its not "tolerated" - it is accepted as reasonable and right by our society. Well....by most of it, anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men."

Yeah I have to admit. Their charity is literally fucking them. You'd never get these 3rs world countries admitting all these foreigners en masse as they know it would be ethnic and cultural suicide.

I'm an African economic immigrant and I'm against these new waves. Only 20% are refugees nfrom Syria. Most are sub Saharan Africans and middle eastern. Why do we have to take them all in. I don't remember this being put up to a vote as it will be the working man, the taxpayer footing the bill.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men.

Yeah I have to admit. Their charity is literally fucking them. You'd never get these 3rs world countries admitting all these foreigners en masse as they know it would be ethnic and cultural suicide.

I'm an African economic immigrant and I'm against these new waves. Only 20% are refugees nfrom Syria. Most are sub Saharan Africans and middle eastern. Why do we have to take them all in. I don't remember this being put up to a vote as it will be the working man, the taxpayer footing the bill."

Exactly, chum.

It's good when people of a foreign heritage realise this as it crumbles the left's narrative. The truth is, the far left who are constantly spouting off about racism etc, are the most racist people there are, they see you, as an African, as some handicapped, special needs being that needs special treatment and protection. They also use you for their own political ends.

Don't be fooled, dude, most people the media paint as "racists" wish better for you than the Marxist degenerates claiming to protect you and fight for your rights.

From your post, I think you're the type of guy to already know this, though. Antifa, etc, don't want migrants to succeed, they just want the society that has deemed them outcasts to crumble. They don't give a shit about majority's rights.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"feminsts want equal rights. we don't want to be men coz we aren't men, but we want to be seen as equal to men.

we want to be allowed everything that is denied to us under the pretence of being female. firstly.

we also want to be respected for our choices, and to be treated as humans who are allowed to make our own choices.

we also want to see our fellow humans thrive, so instead of knocking others down for trying to achieve better for themselves (like some do to feminists) we do tend to support other causes for people who also want more rights.

we are strong, you cannot beat us. (disclaimer i may have nicked this line from a nintendo advert but they haven't used it for over 20 yrs now).

I am quite curious to know what exactly you feel you are denied in this country, in this day an age, as a result of being a woman?

if you're fortunate enough not to run into misogyny anywhere then lucky you. but seeing as we're on this site alone i'm very surprised at that.

me personally, not a lot now. sometimes i get mansplained or treated like a don't matter sexually but i can't think of anything more than that.

actually i think i'll include with those the fact that some men think my appearance should be appealing to them and if it is not then i shouldn't be showing my face or body publicly on a website, or if i reject them they think they have some kind of right to then mention my appearance and how it isn't appealing. i know this second one is more of a mental issue they have and they maybe can't help that but both are perpetuated by a misogynistic belief that my body is here only for their pleasure and not for mine in my own right.

i'm the main carer for my children with one partner (my other ex we have 50/50 care of his children) so i brought them up at my time and expense and my ex just walked away and there was a safety net to protect me and my kids (i suppose) but it wasn't great and he never was forced to contribute to his own children, there is societal pressure for women to do so (more their time rather than money) but i was happy to look after my kids anyway so didn't give too much of a shit. and please do not tell me the CSA is there to do that as they failed me so as far as i'm concerned he was never pressured to contribute to his kids at all.

and take a look at your media, i hardly look at it now because it doesn't appeal to my mindset. but it's always acting like it's their business what a woman looks like and that looks are important. lol, someone above mentioned a woman is running the country and even she has had a news story going on about her sexy legs.

there's probably other stuff, it won't affect me coz i don't listen to it.

so yeah mansplaining, my body isn't mine, and my feelings don't matter (which i think the english tend to be good at invalidating all peoples feelings anyway, we're good at that, but i more mean in a way where myself a person does not matter coz i'm here to please men sexually and aesthetically).

Of course my life has been affected by the previous partriarchal generations- how could they not? They shaped society. However, I really don't feel that in this day and age, women are denied rights or laws to protect them in this country.Your family affairs are not the business of the government or law unless you ask them to interject on your behalf. If you couldn't come to an amicable agreement with your ex with regards to childcare or finances, I really don't see how that is the fault of society. The fault lies with the pair of you.

As for how women are supposed to look- the most viscous magazines and newspaper articles about women are written by women for women. We can be our own worst enemy. Men are aware how conscious of we are of our looks. How many times have I seen threads about dick pics, where the standard response is- tell him how small it is. We (men and women) both exploit the others known and obvious weaknesses to score petty points.

I'm not saying there isn't improvement to be made in the way human beings treat other human beings. But I don't feel that I have ever been prevented from doing anything in my life on the basis that I am a female. And that's what I was querying with you.

actually the government felt it was their right to intervene, and that i had to tell them who the father of those children were. despite me leaving an abusive relationship with him, where a neighbour did call the police one time.

then they did nothing about that.

might not be because i'm a woman but still you're incorrect about your statement.

i don't really care about the patriarch any more. i think only backwards people follow it now anyway and because it suits them to, not because it gives them any advantage. but society is not the law, we wouldn't have prisons if it was, society tries to shape people. so laws or not, it still affects people.

i've also had a previous boss tell me he didn't want women to work and thought they should stay at home and he only employed them because the law said he should. half of us working for him were women, all wanting employment. so yeah the law covered me there, and he wasn't being malicious and didn't hate women he just thought he knew what was better for us than we knew for ourselves.

in reality laws shouldn't even be needed for this stuff.

First of all, you didnt mention that your ex was abusive - Im sorry that you went through that. But if the law intervened on your behalf it surely demonstrates that women have rights and protections in this society? Im a little bit confused about this story, so perhaps its best to leave that particular argument there, as clearly I would need to know exactly what you are talking about, and I dont!

Im not sure what you mean by "society is not the law" - we all, as as a society, vote for a government to lead us. They create and uphold laws that protect and defend us. The laws we have are reflective of the society we live in, no?

In my first "proper" job, I worked for a franchise owned by a woman. My manager under her was a woman. When I told my manager I needed to take time off to look after my sick baby, she told me that her boss hadnt wanted to employ women of my age, and this was exactly the reason why - they wanted unexpected time off, maternity leave and so on. Its not just men who hold these sorts of opinions. In reality, it would be lovely if we could live in a loving and generous utopia, where we dont need these rules, but we dont, so we do.

"

the government intervened purely for financial reasons, then didn't even do what they claimed they were intervening for. which isn't a womens issue anyway, apart form the fact that women are still more likely left with the children, and without the support of child care or an ex partner then the bill is left to other tax payers instead, and so they intervened for that reason. to save themselves money, nothing more than that.

and in those days there was no child care support or anything to help with with the burden of children in a society that accepted all the burden should mainly be left to women. it's why i actively support pro-choice, don't just agree with it but fight for it to remain, as some countries haven't advanced as far as we have come in my life time.

what i mean by society isn't the law is the law is the law and the justice system is the law. but not everyone follows the law or wants to follow the law. like in your example and mine, some people do not think we should have the rights that we do have and treat people accordingly but in this case the law forced it anyway. other cases there is no way to force it, and it's acceptable on some level.

and yeah i do think it would be better if laws weren't forced to be brought in and people had social and communal standards that weren't offensive and were based on logic.

thanks for your replies, they were very nice and interesting.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films... "

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men."
no you have turned it into something even worse.. have a read of the post again

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men."

you was talking about the emasculation of men in this topic also.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?"

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i heard the swedish economy is doing really well.

That's because I've built most of their bloody flatpack furniture!

lol.

but i think it's to do with the emasculation of men.

It's due to mass immigration, their population has grown by something like 30% - they've become the sexual assault capital of Europe as a result and Malmo (the country's second largest city) is practically an ISIS stronghold, but hey, at least the economy is good!

what do you personally do to change the attitudes of these immigrants? or any men who hold the same opinions?

once men turn feminist discussions into mens discussions i stop taking that topic seriously any more.

once they use those topics to attack any kind of person without also inviting discussion on how to solve a supposed issue, i lose interest even more.

I haven't turned it in to a men's issue, it's women being sexually assaulted en masse by the migrants they voted to allow in, not men.

you was talking about the emasculation of men in this topic also. "

Only in relation to the treatment of women from migrants. For instance, if Serbian or Croatian women were assaulted by migrants like Swede women have been, those migrants would receive a very violent, unpleasant backlash, in Sweden (which is governed by feminists) the men are so weak that they sit back and watch their women get assaulted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality."

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender? "

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into. "

i'm a feminist coz i recognise that women have struggles because they are women, pure and simple.

there are different types of feminsts also, i associate myself with marxism, eco, and womanism types of feminism and not so much liberal feminism as my anarchist side does not support that obviously.

i am saying feminists will likely support other causes. oppressed groups tend to be made up of a good diversity of people with other struggles, or who are at least be able to recognise others struggles and support them through that. i'm also active in workers rights, and disability rights, but support other oppressed groups also and let them have their voice without shutting them down.

the way i see it is, people with struggles will say what those struggles are and we can listen to them, it's down to them to first propose what their problems are and for us to understand them, then we recognise them as genuine issues, and here we can decide whether to support them or not. and most groups do support each other because they end up intertwined anyway. but it's not just this that makes them supportive, they also recognise that equality for themselves means equality for others and so support this.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

i'm a feminist coz i recognise that women have struggles because they are women, pure and simple.

there are different types of feminsts also, i associate myself with marxism, eco, and womanism types of feminism and not so much liberal feminism as my anarchist side does not support that obviously.

i am saying feminists will likely support other causes. oppressed groups tend to be made up of a good diversity of people with other struggles, or who are at least be able to recognise others struggles and support them through that. i'm also active in workers rights, and disability rights, but support other oppressed groups also and let them have their voice without shutting them down.

the way i see it is, people with struggles will say what those struggles are and we can listen to them, it's down to them to first propose what their problems are and for us to understand them, then we recognise them as genuine issues, and here we can decide whether to support them or not. and most groups do support each other because they end up intertwined anyway. but it's not just this that makes them supportive, they also recognise that equality for themselves means equality for others and so support this."

I think you are talking about the world you wish you lived in, rather than the one you do. I find that all Marxist hate facts because facts disprove Marxism. But then their standard response is some variation of "well that's not the way the would should be". In reality, all marxist attempts to make the world like they think it should be, have resulted in mass famine, poverty and dictatorship.

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"thanks for your replies, they were very nice and interesting."

Likewise - and thank you for being so open and frank about your own life experiences - it certainly puts your opinions into perspective x

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

I've not read the whole thread, so apologise if I've missed things.

I think what is needed is equal *Opportunity* . Yes, men and women aren't the same, but there is no reason for any opportunity to be not equally available to either because if sex (or any other reason for that matter)

MrB

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?"

men did used to get automatic custody of the children, and feminism did end that yes.

but the reason now why most men do not get custody (although they are more likely to these days than previous decades) is because the patriarch decided women were to stay home with the children and take care of the home. the court system decided that a divorce was stressful enough on the children and so the children should stay with their main care giver so the divorce would be not as stressful for them, and thanks to patriarchy men were not the main care giver.

wars, patriarchy presumed women to be incapable of going to war coz they were weak and emotional.

same for prison, women weren't capable of being evil coz they were presumed to be too stupid to do that and it wasn't in their character. so men got the blame coz men can make choices and aren't dumb.

suicide, well yeah, not sure who is to blame there. as many women attempt suicide as men do, just mens methods are more violent and so more likely to work.

blaming doesn't help though really, it just helps us to recognise where the problem stems from and how it is possible to change things.

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By *heladyandthelibertineCouple
over a year ago

Reading


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?"

Women were only allowed to serve non-combat roles in the army up until very recently. That wasn't women's choice!! They weren't given the choice!

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

i'm a feminist coz i recognise that women have struggles because they are women, pure and simple.

there are different types of feminsts also, i associate myself with marxism, eco, and womanism types of feminism and not so much liberal feminism as my anarchist side does not support that obviously.

i am saying feminists will likely support other causes. oppressed groups tend to be made up of a good diversity of people with other struggles, or who are at least be able to recognise others struggles and support them through that. i'm also active in workers rights, and disability rights, but support other oppressed groups also and let them have their voice without shutting them down.

the way i see it is, people with struggles will say what those struggles are and we can listen to them, it's down to them to first propose what their problems are and for us to understand them, then we recognise them as genuine issues, and here we can decide whether to support them or not. and most groups do support each other because they end up intertwined anyway. but it's not just this that makes them supportive, they also recognise that equality for themselves means equality for others and so support this.

I think you are talking about the world you wish you lived in, rather than the one you do. I find that all Marxist hate facts because facts disprove Marxism. But then their standard response is some variation of "well that's not the way the would should be". In reality, all marxist attempts to make the world like they think it should be, have resulted in mass famine, poverty and dictatorship. "

i'm not a marxist, i don't affiliate myself with any form of politics in that way. i do embrace marxist feminism and think there are many ways to oppress people.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?"

(Mr speaking here) Those aren't 'parts of society' , but:

Suicide is self inflicted. Yes, more men die but more women attempt it. Male death rate is higher due to more violent methods employed.

We don't have military service in this country.

Prison sentences, men commit the majority of violent crime and therefore receive the average higher sentences.

Equal opportunity isn't supposed to be a battle of the sexes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

I was only addressing equality itself not feminism or gender inequality.

Apologies for confusion "

Ahh it wasn't aimed at you, Tush

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films... "

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

men did used to get automatic custody of the children, and feminism did end that yes.

but the reason now why most men do not get custody (although they are more likely to these days than previous decades) is because the patriarch decided women were to stay home with the children and take care of the home. the court system decided that a divorce was stressful enough on the children and so the children should stay with their main care giver so the divorce would be not as stressful for them, and thanks to patriarchy men were not the main care giver.

wars, patriarchy presumed women to be incapable of going to war coz they were weak and emotional.

same for prison, women weren't capable of being evil coz they were presumed to be too stupid to do that and it wasn't in their character. so men got the blame coz men can make choices and aren't dumb.

suicide, well yeah, not sure who is to blame there. as many women attempt suicide as men do, just mens methods are more violent and so more likely to work.

blaming doesn't help though really, it just helps us to recognise where the problem stems from and how it is possible to change things."

In 2012 the male suicide rate was 3 times higher than that of females, and the cause is that women talk more, they have a better support network, and men tend to try to "run it off" and keep going like everything is fine.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument. "

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps. "

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands. "

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law."

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read. "

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world... "

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it."

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time. "

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light. "

The last point is from another source. Since i keep getting forum bans for posting links:

The gender pay gap for full-time employees in 2016 was 9.4%

This means average pay for full-time female employees was 9.4% lower than for full-time male employees. This gap is down from 17.4% in 1997.

The main factors explaining why women tend to earn less than men are:

part-time work

type of occupation

having and caring for children

Interestingly, the gender pay gap for part-time employees alone was minus 6.0% in 2016. This means female part-time employees earned 6.0% more than male part-time employees.

Another factor that affects the gender pay gap is that women tend to work in occupations which offer lower salaries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light.

The last point is from another source. Since i keep getting forum bans for posting links:

The gender pay gap for full-time employees in 2016 was 9.4%

This means average pay for full-time female employees was 9.4% lower than for full-time male employees. This gap is down from 17.4% in 1997.

The main factors explaining why women tend to earn less than men are:

part-time work

type of occupation

having and caring for children

Interestingly, the gender pay gap for part-time employees alone was minus 6.0% in 2016. This means female part-time employees earned 6.0% more than male part-time employees.

Another factor that affects the gender pay gap is that women tend to work in occupations which offer lower salaries."

I don't claim to be an expert on the gender pay gap but the part about childless women earning more than men in the exact same role, I can't see any evidence to support that.

Also, on average, there's still a pay gap. I realise other factors are involved.

Interested to hear other thoughts on this, or shoot me the links directly so you don't get a ban.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above."

What problem? That's probably the most accurate method used in the world. Would you prefer self reporting data!?

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above.

What problem? That's probably the most accurate method used in the world. Would you prefer self reporting data!? "

1% sample, how can that even be accurate?

And they use the median average for the info, which i'm not sure that's the best way to do averages on pay gaps as it excludes huge ranges.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above.

What problem? That's probably the most accurate method used in the world. Would you prefer self reporting data!?

1% sample, how can that even be accurate?

And they use the median average for the info, which i'm not sure that's the best way to do averages on pay gaps as it excludes huge ranges."

Because it's randomly selected and done on an annual basis. I really don't think you can point to another data set that has a superior method of measurement. As far as i have found, only 2 countries in europe actually report at the level of jobs, as opposed to industry (sweden is the other, Australia and US do too). The median is a better measure of the average person, all agencies use the median for wages since the mean can be upto 30% higher in some countries which doesn't tell you much about how most people actually live.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•


"This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above.

What problem? That's probably the most accurate method used in the world. Would you prefer self reporting data!?

1% sample, how can that even be accurate?

And they use the median average for the info, which i'm not sure that's the best way to do averages on pay gaps as it excludes huge ranges.

Because it's randomly selected and done on an annual basis. I really don't think you can point to another data set that has a superior method of measurement. As far as i have found, only 2 countries in europe actually report at the level of jobs, as opposed to industry (sweden is the other, Australia and US do too). The median is a better measure of the average person, all agencies use the median for wages since the mean can be upto 30% higher in some countries which doesn't tell you much about how most people actually live. "

i can kind of understand why they use the median, as it might represent better the average amount of money but like i said it excludes huge pay gaps also, the mean would show exactly how much money is going to men vs women. they could at least show the range as well if not the mean.

and i say might coz as there is only 1% of all data represented i don't consider that enough information. just because it's the best source doesn't mean it's accurate enough or any good.

also if it is randomly selected then the data is not even comparable to another years data, as far as i'm concerned. it's just random, useless.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"This bulletin presents analyses from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), which is the most detailed and comprehensive source of earnings information. ASHE is based on a 1% sample of employee jobs, drawn from HM Revenue and Customs Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records.

I see an problem with the above.

What problem? That's probably the most accurate method used in the world. Would you prefer self reporting data!?

1% sample, how can that even be accurate?

And they use the median average for the info, which i'm not sure that's the best way to do averages on pay gaps as it excludes huge ranges.

Because it's randomly selected and done on an annual basis. I really don't think you can point to another data set that has a superior method of measurement. As far as i have found, only 2 countries in europe actually report at the level of jobs, as opposed to industry (sweden is the other, Australia and US do too). The median is a better measure of the average person, all agencies use the median for wages since the mean can be upto 30% higher in some countries which doesn't tell you much about how most people actually live.

i can kind of understand why they use the median, as it might represent better the average amount of money but like i said it excludes huge pay gaps also, the mean would show exactly how much money is going to men vs women. they could at least show the range as well if not the mean.

and i say might coz as there is only 1% of all data represented i don't consider that enough information. just because it's the best source doesn't mean it's accurate enough or any good.

also if it is randomly selected then the data is not even comparable to another years data, as far as i'm concerned. it's just random, useless. "

You are welcome to send your concerns to the ONS but i still challenge you to show me a better data set or method used. Having peesonally looked at this problem, your concerns are far from insurmountable, in fact they are inherent in all statistics and the ONS is easily in the top 3 organisations worldwide for professional standards.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

[Removed by poster at 17/07/17 21:01:05]

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

if wages were something that hardly deviated then i'd agree with how they collect the data.

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By *lirtyfun!!Woman
over a year ago

Epsom


"With some exceptions, women as a group are better/more suited to some things than men.

With some exceptions, men as a group are better/more suited to some things than women.

You can social justice it all you like in the name of equality, but that is determined by nature. That would be Mother Nature too, apparently. .."

This. We are born biologically different and therefore have different strengths.

As a woman in this country (completely admit it's not the case in some others), I don't feel that there's anything I couldn't do because of my gender. I have a degree in maths and am often irritated by the 'get girls into stem courses/jobs ' initiatives. I feel like all that does is reinforce the idea that those jobs aren't for women. If we stop making a big deal of it, surely those who have the right skills and mindset will do those things anyway. And there are never any initiatives for getting men in to female heavy job roles.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"With some exceptions, women as a group are better/more suited to some things than men.

With some exceptions, men as a group are better/more suited to some things than women.

You can social justice it all you like in the name of equality, but that is determined by nature. That would be Mother Nature too, apparently. ..

This. We are born biologically different and therefore have different strengths.

As a woman in this country (completely admit it's not the case in some others), I don't feel that there's anything I couldn't do because of my gender. I have a degree in maths and am often irritated by the 'get girls into stem courses/jobs ' initiatives. I feel like all that does is reinforce the idea that those jobs aren't for women. If we stop making a big deal of it, surely those who have the right skills and mindset will do those things anyway. And there are never any initiatives for getting men in to female heavy job roles."

I saw that there's a "black engineer of the year award" - i wonder if they realise that its existence implies black people are dumb

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"1st wave feminism was about giving women rights - an extremely important movement.

2nd wave feminism was about equality - again, absolutely vital.

3rd wave feminism is about giving women more rights than men, and preferential treatment. It's been married with intersecitionality and is now a banner for the "social justice warrior" movement which led to Antifa.

It's responsible for turning a record number of women away from feminism. Statistically, less women in developed countries identify feminists than any time in the last 50 years.

Interestingly, third wave feminists often like to say "straight, white, cisgendered men" have some kind of privilege. That way of thinking is what a massive number of second wave feminists and public intellectuals pinpoint as being wrong with third wave feminism - this sense of victimhood and entitlement.

There's not a single law or right in the UK or US applying to men which women don't have. And in fact, empirical data shows that the law, when discharged by the judiciary, has a bias TOWARDS women.

Anyways, where was I...

What was the question?

Mrs x "

Perfectly put, people don't like facts, especially in the oppression olympics - so I doubt lots of women will be nice to you here.

The in work sexism mentioned above is not the way it used to be, a woman would be fired for not towing the line. Now if a man touches a woman he is gone immediately. Sounds pretty fair to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light.

The last point is from another source. Since i keep getting forum bans for posting links:

The gender pay gap for full-time employees in 2016 was 9.4%

This means average pay for full-time female employees was 9.4% lower than for full-time male employees. This gap is down from 17.4% in 1997.

The main factors explaining why women tend to earn less than men are:

part-time work

type of occupation

having and caring for children

Interestingly, the gender pay gap for part-time employees alone was minus 6.0% in 2016. This means female part-time employees earned 6.0% more than male part-time employees.

Another factor that affects the gender pay gap is that women tend to work in occupations which offer lower salaries.

I don't claim to be an expert on the gender pay gap but the part about childless women earning more than men in the exact same role, I can't see any evidence to support that.

Also, on average, there's still a pay gap. I realise other factors are involved.

Interested to hear other thoughts on this, or shoot me the links directly so you don't get a ban. "

Gender pay gap doesn't exist. Read the report that feminists use themselves & it actually shows it. They add up income of men & women & deduct - then turn into a %. That is akin to saying all men are paid 7% less than women, because my gf gets 7% more than me. It's anecdotal & nonsensical.

The minimum wage for men is let's say £7.20 (which includes their privilege bonus)

Female minimum wage comes to, you guessed it £7.20

Go figure.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"With some exceptions, women as a group are better/more suited to some things than men.

With some exceptions, men as a group are better/more suited to some things than women.

You can social justice it all you like in the name of equality, but that is determined by nature. That would be Mother Nature too, apparently. ..

This. We are born biologically different and therefore have different strengths.

As a woman in this country (completely admit it's not the case in some others), I don't feel that there's anything I couldn't do because of my gender. I have a degree in maths and am often irritated by the 'get girls into stem courses/jobs ' initiatives. I feel like all that does is reinforce the idea that those jobs aren't for women. If we stop making a big deal of it, surely those who have the right skills and mindset will do those things anyway. And there are never any initiatives for getting men in to female heavy job roles.

I saw that there's a "black engineer of the year award" - i wonder if they realise that its existence implies black people are dumb"

It implies that black people are under represented in engineering and that the organisers think some publicity and encouragement could change that.

That only leads to 'black people are dumb' if you think that under representation is due to intelligence rather than cultural factors.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"With some exceptions, women as a group are better/more suited to some things than men.

With some exceptions, men as a group are better/more suited to some things than women.

You can social justice it all you like in the name of equality, but that is determined by nature. That would be Mother Nature too, apparently. ..

This. We are born biologically different and therefore have different strengths.

As a woman in this country (completely admit it's not the case in some others), I don't feel that there's anything I couldn't do because of my gender. I have a degree in maths and am often irritated by the 'get girls into stem courses/jobs ' initiatives. I feel like all that does is reinforce the idea that those jobs aren't for women. If we stop making a big deal of it, surely those who have the right skills and mindset will do those things anyway. And there are never any initiatives for getting men in to female heavy job roles.

I saw that there's a "black engineer of the year award" - i wonder if they realise that its existence implies black people are dumb

It implies that black people are under represented in engineering and that the organisers think some publicity and encouragement could change that.

That only leads to 'black people are dumb' if you think that under representation is due to intelligence rather than cultural factors. "

Quite a stretch to think that a crappy award is going to generate publicity or interest, but points for trying. I think the idea that you know what proportion of engineers should be black is where your analysis goes wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

men did used to get automatic custody of the children, and feminism did end that yes.

but the reason now why most men do not get custody (although they are more likely to these days than previous decades) is because the patriarch decided women were to stay home with the children and take care of the home. the court system decided that a divorce was stressful enough on the children and so the children should stay with their main care giver so the divorce would be not as stressful for them, and thanks to patriarchy men were not the main care giver.

wars, patriarchy presumed women to be incapable of going to war coz they were weak and emotional.

same for prison, women weren't capable of being evil coz they were presumed to be too stupid to do that and it wasn't in their character. so men got the blame coz men can make choices and aren't dumb.

suicide, well yeah, not sure who is to blame there. as many women attempt suicide as men do, just mens methods are more violent and so more likely to work.

blaming doesn't help though really, it just helps us to recognise where the problem stems from and how it is possible to change things."

Muh patriarchy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Feminism is so misunderstood and blindly hated. I am a feminist because I want everyone to be given equal rights and opportunities regardless of gender.

Regardless of gender

REGARDLESS.

That even means men. Because equal means the same.

Even some extreme feminists don't adhere to this principle. To which I say; if you call yourself a feminist and want to promote women ahead of men - then you're missing the point.

/rant

*Not aimed at anyone in the thread, just fuckwits in general*"

That makes you an egalitarian doesnt it. Not a feminist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The two top jobs in the country are owned by women so stupid question really.

It's 2017 in UK and women are rightly equal that is all end of debate. "

You have a great deal to learn. Equality is only theoretical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.That is right, there is a witch hunt for everyone who have muscles and the police have the right to stop you and take saliva examples and drug test you for steroids, it is big news in the bodybuilding community, here is a utube link of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gS1iTVJLI"

So you're saying steroids are illegal? If so, men being arrested for muscles is a bedtime story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In sweden the feminists who governs are emasculating the men, they are 2nd class citizens, so it is not equal rights everywhere.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.theweek.co.uk/amp/europe/59885/swedish-man-arrested-for-being-too-buff

Sweden is a great example of what happens to a country when women are given real power.Sexual assault capital of Europe, no-go zones for native Swedes in every city and they're arresting men for having muscles.That is right, there is a witch hunt for everyone who have muscles and the police have the right to stop you and take saliva examples and drug test you for steroids, it is big news in the bodybuilding community, here is a utube link of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gS1iTVJLI

So you're saying steroids are illegal? If so, men being arrested for muscles is a bedtime story."

Would you accept physically profiled stop and test in the UK for any substance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Extreme feminism is damaging for women, when there are women who shout and scream from the rooftops because a man said "hi" no one wants to listen to real women's issues.

I think we have all seen the red haired woman that has become the face of radical feminism, but in the video has anyone actually listened to what she was saying, in actual fact, she was saying that feminists do not want to keep fathers from their children and so on and so forth, but the way she came across made her tone louder than her actual words.

The small issues that tend to get covered by the media, the manspreading, the mansplaining, and so on, takes away from the serious issues, such as female genital mutilation, honour killings, and the inexcusable high rate of women who die at the hands of a partner or ex partner.

There is a girl who.libes in Birmingham, who was flown in from Afghanistan after she was attacked by the taliban simply because she's a female, and wanted to go to school, she was shot in the head,and now she stands up and speaks out for women who are really being oppressed, that is where feminism should be focusing energy, not on how a bloke with big balls sits on a train, or if it's offencive to say that someone looks pretty today, choose your battles,or the war will be lost"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world

Except on Fab "

She was right and so are you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor little white straight men bemoaning feminism is pretty hilarious. As group, you're the most privileged people in the world

What a priviledge it is to be held accountable for the failures of every other group, be held to a higher standard than every other group and get demonized by every other group as those groups leech off of us like parasites.

It's thanks to straight white men that you live in a first world country that allows you and your friends to "march" in the streets, whine to the media and demand free money/unearned promotions, whilst they work and pick up the bill.

Having every non-achieving undesirable as our burden is NOT a priviledge, let me tell you."

More bedtime stories from you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equal rights however should mean equal. Women have the "right" to wear trousers yet it's not socially acceptable for a man to wear a dress.

Men are expected to help with the household chores, but try asking the wife to change the oil on the car and that's a "man"s job.

I'm all in favour of sexual equality, but only if it is actually equality."

"HELP with household chores" wrong mentality right there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We need to define if we are speaking of women's rights in the UK and Europe or the rest of the world. We are all aware of some of the atrocities carried out by male dominated cultures in other countries whilst we sympathise with those countries are we as a country supposed to dicate how other cultures live ? Look what's happened in Afghanistan. Iraq and libiya where we objected to supposed dictatorship rules...all those countries are now worse off as a whole. Men and women are different but deserve equal protection under the laws. Is it sexist to open a door for a lady or just good manners, or does it demean a lady as insinuating that she not as capable as a man in opening a door. Same with carrying heavy bags. "

Men and women should be able to celebrate their differences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into. "

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?"

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

"

Below the age of 30 women earn on average more than men....

The biggest problems with gender pay gap etc is simply that its caused by the job women choose yo do.

Which makes a bigger problem as feminists cant change it without either attacking women (which we see a lot) Or by trying to drag mens incomes down.

You can't raise women's earnings when they choose to be a early learning specialist instead of an engineer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

"

We get called sexist then though.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world... "

The shit hits the fan with interpretation.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

"

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

The shit hits the fan with interpretation."

There's nothing confusing about the correct interpretation. It just doesn't support the case you want to make.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

Below the age of 30 women earn on average more than men....

The biggest problems with gender pay gap etc is simply that its caused by the job women choose yo do.

Which makes a bigger problem as feminists cant change it without either attacking women (which we see a lot) Or by trying to drag mens incomes down.

You can't raise women's earnings when they choose to be a early learning specialist instead of an engineer"

You then have to talk about why women aren't getting offered these more senior roles or why they're not taking them. Also, women taking less-paid roles is not the only factor contributing to the pay gap.

I'm not sure why you talk about feminism as being so aggressive, it isn't.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Feminism is so misunderstood and blindly hated. I am a feminist because I want everyone to be given equal rights and opportunities regardless of gender.

Regardless of gender

REGARDLESS.

That even means men. Because equal means the same.

Even some extreme feminists don't adhere to this principle. To which I say; if you call yourself a feminist and want to promote women ahead of men - then you're missing the point.

/rant

*Not aimed at anyone in the thread, just fuckwits in general*

That makes you an egalitarian doesnt it. Not a feminist."

Yes, but true feminism is an egalitarian movement.

Before you approach true egalitarianism, you have to address the generally marginalised group first.

But you are right, all true feminists should consider themselves to be egalitarian.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

Below the age of 30 women earn on average more than men....

The biggest problems with gender pay gap etc is simply that its caused by the job women choose yo do.

Which makes a bigger problem as feminists cant change it without either attacking women (which we see a lot) Or by trying to drag mens incomes down.

You can't raise women's earnings when they choose to be a early learning specialist instead of an engineer

You then have to talk about why women aren't getting offered these more senior roles or why they're not taking them. Also, women taking less-paid roles is not the only factor contributing to the pay gap.

I'm not sure why you talk about feminism as being so aggressive, it isn't. "

In engineering i can tell you women get offered senior roles in proportion to their qualifications for them. Many have careers that stagnated when they became parents (rules you out of senior management) and there weren't that many female engineers to start with. Because there aren't that many studying the relevant degrees. Why that is the case is subject to debate but my opinion is that differences in the average male and female brain incline them towards different subjects. What would you like to change about the above?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age. "

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for. "

Actions speak louder than words

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words"

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

Below the age of 30 women earn on average more than men....

The biggest problems with gender pay gap etc is simply that its caused by the job women choose yo do.

Which makes a bigger problem as feminists cant change it without either attacking women (which we see a lot) Or by trying to drag mens incomes down.

You can't raise women's earnings when they choose to be a early learning specialist instead of an engineer

You then have to talk about why women aren't getting offered these more senior roles or why they're not taking them. Also, women taking less-paid roles is not the only factor contributing to the pay gap.

I'm not sure why you talk about feminism as being so aggressive, it isn't.

In engineering i can tell you women get offered senior roles in proportion to their qualifications for them. Many have careers that stagnated when they became parents (rules you out of senior management) and there weren't that many female engineers to start with. Because there aren't that many studying the relevant degrees. Why that is the case is subject to debate but my opinion is that differences in the average male and female brain incline them towards different subjects. What would you like to change about the above? "

You offer your opinion out quite a lot as fact.

I would say those careers stagnated due to there not being more senior roles offered up as flexible. Women are having to choose between work and a family.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words"

Care to elaborate...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Women have small feet so they can get closer to the sink fact.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

lol, yeah you do. loads of men whinging right now that the new dr who is a woman and that wonder woman was 'sexist' by having women only screenings.

why aren't men campaigning for male models to get equal pay? feminists would support them. is it now also the womens burden to decide what men want and implement that for them?

Whinging is freedom of speech. Shutting down screenings of the red pill denies others their right to freedom of speech. Can you show me some evidence of where feminists have campaigned for equal pay in modelling for men? Or are you saying that they would theoretically support them, they just have never gotten round to it in real life?

Frankly, you are too intelligent to associate yourself with such a toxic label. You are associating with what you wish feminism was, not what it's actually degenerated into.

I think she was saying why can't men campaign for equal pay in modelling and the feminists would support this.

Below the age of 30 women earn on average more than men....

The biggest problems with gender pay gap etc is simply that its caused by the job women choose yo do.

Which makes a bigger problem as feminists cant change it without either attacking women (which we see a lot) Or by trying to drag mens incomes down.

You can't raise women's earnings when they choose to be a early learning specialist instead of an engineer

You then have to talk about why women aren't getting offered these more senior roles or why they're not taking them. Also, women taking less-paid roles is not the only factor contributing to the pay gap.

I'm not sure why you talk about feminism as being so aggressive, it isn't.

In engineering i can tell you women get offered senior roles in proportion to their qualifications for them. Many have careers that stagnated when they became parents (rules you out of senior management) and there weren't that many female engineers to start with. Because there aren't that many studying the relevant degrees. Why that is the case is subject to debate but my opinion is that differences in the average male and female brain incline them towards different subjects. What would you like to change about the above?

You offer your opinion out quite a lot as fact.

I would say those careers stagnated due to there not being more senior roles offered up as flexible. Women are having to choose between work and a family. "

Senior roles are inherently less flexible than junior ones. I think most companies that employ highly skilled people already do most of what can be done to accomodate working mothers - flexitime, on-site nursery, remote working are all common in engineering companies. Many woman still progress because they employ someone to shoulder the burden of childcare, many woman don't want to do that. The cost is not prohibitive for a senior manager so that's the real choice they are making.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light.

The last point is from another source. Since i keep getting forum bans for posting links:

The gender pay gap for full-time employees in 2016 was 9.4%

This means average pay for full-time female employees was 9.4% lower than for full-time male employees. This gap is down from 17.4% in 1997.

The main factors explaining why women tend to earn less than men are:

part-time work

type of occupation

having and caring for children

Interestingly, the gender pay gap for part-time employees alone was minus 6.0% in 2016. This means female part-time employees earned 6.0% more than male part-time employees.

Another factor that affects the gender pay gap is that women tend to work in occupations which offer lower salaries.

I don't claim to be an expert on the gender pay gap but the part about childless women earning more than men in the exact same role, I can't see any evidence to support that.

Also, on average, there's still a pay gap. I realise other factors are involved.

Interested to hear other thoughts on this, or shoot me the links directly so you don't get a ban.

Gender pay gap doesn't exist. Read the report that feminists use themselves & it actually shows it. They add up income of men & women & deduct - then turn into a %. That is akin to saying all men are paid 7% less than women, because my gf gets 7% more than me. It's anecdotal & nonsensical.

The minimum wage for men is let's say £7.20 (which includes their privilege bonus)

Female minimum wage comes to, you guessed it £7.20

Go figure. "

The gender pay gap isn't about men and women being paid differently for doing the same job. Because that is illegal.

The pay gap is about how as a whole, women earn less than men due to factors related to their sex.

It mostly comes down to the fact that men work more hours than women, because women are expected to play a household role and cannot work when raising children.

The pay gap is also influenced by the fact that women occupy fewer executive roles than men. I think a good example if that is that 4% of fortune 500 CEO's are women.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words

Care to elaborate..."

Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

That might balance out the ones who shut down screenings of the red pill because they can't tolerate the opinions of others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So is it true that women have a small brain the size of a walnut and mens brains are much bigger

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Equality is a flawed and outdated concept which for whatever reason people strongly fight for.

We are not all born equally therefore we shouldn't be treated equally.

Not true. We should expect equal opportunities, but not equal outcomes. The problem is that feminists expect the latter. Not having the latter is their basis for what is basically another conspiracy theory.

Equal doesn't mean fair.

If you offer an office job to two people but will judge them on their ability to climb the stairs, how does equal opportunity sound to you now?

Which jobs do women earn more than men? Genuinely interested...

Female models earn around 10x more than male models. Not a conspiracy though, womens fashion is a much better market than mens fashion. It's just supply and demand. When i hear a 'feminist' campaign for male models to be paid the same as female ones, then i'll believe they want equality. But really they only care about issues where woman come out worse. You don't see mens rights activists shutting down screenings of feminist films...

Okay, any jobs which are your usual day-to-day roles though? If we're going purely on female supermodels being paid more than their male counterpart, that's a weak argument.

You won't find any day to day roles where men earn more than women for doing the same work either. It's only exceptional jobs like models, entertainers and sports where you see large gaps.

There shouldn't be any gap. Women and men should be paid equally for day-to-day roles, however, there's strong evidence to suggest that this is not the case. The biggest pay gap was 34% in the East Midlands.

According to the ONS, the gap is statistically insignificant (i.e. less than 5%) when comparing like for like. Of course if you can find real 34% differences for like for like work then happy days because there will be a huge payout since the employer would be breaking the law.

Do a simple Google search and there's lots of stuff for you to read.

I prefer to read facts than propoganda. Do you have some objective criticism of the way the ONS gathers it's data? It is one of the most accurate and professional statistical organisations in the world...

I've just read an article from the ONS about the pay gap, which states that it does exist. So, I'm not quite sure why you're so overtly challenging it.

What it states is that the average full time employed man earns more than the average full time employed woman. The reverse is true for part time work by the way. It then goes on to explain that when you adjust to make the figures like for like (same job, years experience, hours worked) then it is not there. Futhermore, the average woman who is employed full time and doesn't have children earns more than the average male who is employed full time.

This makes no sense because I've read that exact same article and I'm not getting your last point from it.

Maybe someone else can come and shed some light.

The last point is from another source. Since i keep getting forum bans for posting links:

The gender pay gap for full-time employees in 2016 was 9.4%

This means average pay for full-time female employees was 9.4% lower than for full-time male employees. This gap is down from 17.4% in 1997.

The main factors explaining why women tend to earn less than men are:

part-time work

type of occupation

having and caring for children

Interestingly, the gender pay gap for part-time employees alone was minus 6.0% in 2016. This means female part-time employees earned 6.0% more than male part-time employees.

Another factor that affects the gender pay gap is that women tend to work in occupations which offer lower salaries.

I don't claim to be an expert on the gender pay gap but the part about childless women earning more than men in the exact same role, I can't see any evidence to support that.

Also, on average, there's still a pay gap. I realise other factors are involved.

Interested to hear other thoughts on this, or shoot me the links directly so you don't get a ban.

Gender pay gap doesn't exist. Read the report that feminists use themselves & it actually shows it. They add up income of men & women & deduct - then turn into a %. That is akin to saying all men are paid 7% less than women, because my gf gets 7% more than me. It's anecdotal & nonsensical.

The minimum wage for men is let's say £7.20 (which includes their privilege bonus)

Female minimum wage comes to, you guessed it £7.20

Go figure.

The gender pay gap isn't about men and women being paid differently for doing the same job. Because that is illegal.

The pay gap is about how as a whole, women earn less than men due to factors related to their sex.

It mostly comes down to the fact that men work more hours than women, because women are expected to play a household role and cannot work when raising children.

The pay gap is also influenced by the fact that women occupy fewer executive roles than men. I think a good example if that is that 4% of fortune 500 CEO's are women.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words

Care to elaborate...

Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

That might balance out the ones who shut down screenings of the red pill because they can't tolerate the opinions of others. "

There are lots of feminist groups who include male articles and talk about suicide rates, male sexual assault cases, domestic violence towards men. Obviously feminist groups are largely centred around women, as they're supposed to, but the notion that feminism is purely about oppressing men is tired and untrue.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words

Care to elaborate...

Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

That might balance out the ones who shut down screenings of the red pill because they can't tolerate the opinions of others.

There are lots of feminist groups who include male articles and talk about suicide rates, male sexual assault cases, domestic violence towards men. Obviously feminist groups are largely centred around women, as they're supposed to, but the notion that feminism is purely about oppressing men is tired and untrue.

"

I never said it was. I'm just saying that it's about advancing women, not men. So i wish they'd cut the crap about 'equality'. Only a dellusional person would think women are disadvantaged in every single aspect of life, anyone for equality would also campaign for areas where men are disadvantaged. A few blogs and talks are not what I'm talking about, they get out and march to shut down a film but not to balance out custody laws (as an example).

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

"

Grape is Grape (remove the G) campaign - Launched by the Feminist Majority Foundation. As a result of the campaign, the FBI changed their definition of the r word to include men.

Feminist activism helped achieve paternity leave by increased pressure on the government to allow it - now new fathers are able to spend time with children when previously not.

Media - Feminist groups like The Representation Project work to shattering the enforced male/female stereotypes that are prevalent.

There are quite a few easily googled examples out there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It all depends whether you're talking about Erin Pizzey feminism or Valerie Salonas.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words

Care to elaborate...

Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

That might balance out the ones who shut down screenings of the red pill because they can't tolerate the opinions of others.

There are lots of feminist groups who include male articles and talk about suicide rates, male sexual assault cases, domestic violence towards men. Obviously feminist groups are largely centred around women, as they're supposed to, but the notion that feminism is purely about oppressing men is tired and untrue.

I never said it was. I'm just saying that it's about advancing women, not men. So i wish they'd cut the crap about 'equality'. Only a dellusional person would think women are disadvantaged in every single aspect of life, anyone for equality would also campaign for areas where men are disadvantaged. A few blogs and talks are not what I'm talking about, they get out and march to shut down a film but not to balance out custody laws (as an example). "

It's definitely not about advancing women, anyone who thinks that isn't a feminist. The feminist narrative simply isn't about men, in the same what that Black Lives Matter isn't about white people. The goals of either group are to highlight the particular injustices relating to their cause in an effort to create equality, not address all inequality between all races and genders.

When you start saying 'all lives matter' or state the injustices that are focused towards men, you are inserting yourself into their narrative. Which isn't to say that men's rights activists haven't got some valid points.

Similarly feminists shouldn't diminish men's rights issues such as child custody simply by stating how equally marginalised they are in a different respect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The height requirements to be a policewoman are lower than they are to be a policeman for example.

You don't get many feminists complain about that act of sexual inequality.

There aren't any requirements. That's part of the problem with a lit of this. Mmisguided opinions, information that's incorrect and people's interpretations of regulations and how they react.

Yes there is positive discrimination towards females being in certain posts, but that's down to misrepresentation of women following bad practices in certain circumstances.

Equality is complex but the obvious cases aren't too hard to find....with both gender?

I can think of serious and high profile parts of society in which men are worse off...

Custody Battles

Suicide

Military Service

Prison Sentences

I'm presuming, that's as feminists are aiming for equality, swingining the pendulum on these issues away for "bad for men" is a huge concern of theirs...?

No?

Can't you men get a masculinist movement going and fight for your own causes instead of slagging feminists off for not fighting for your causes. Geez.

The feminists are pretending to fight for equality, not just womens issues. Identity politics really is the most degenerate form, people evolved past that in the stone age.

Those pesky feminists, terrible aren't they. Pretending to support human rights as well as women's. Don't pretend you know exactly what every person supports or what they're fighting for.

Actions speak louder than words

Care to elaborate...

Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

That might balance out the ones who shut down screenings of the red pill because they can't tolerate the opinions of others.

There are lots of feminist groups who include male articles and talk about suicide rates, male sexual assault cases, domestic violence towards men. Obviously feminist groups are largely centred around women, as they're supposed to, but the notion that feminism is purely about oppressing men is tired and untrue.

I never said it was. I'm just saying that it's about advancing women, not men. So i wish they'd cut the crap about 'equality'. Only a dellusional person would think women are disadvantaged in every single aspect of life, anyone for equality would also campaign for areas where men are disadvantaged. A few blogs and talks are not what I'm talking about, they get out and march to shut down a film but not to balance out custody laws (as an example).

It's definitely not about advancing women, anyone who thinks that isn't a feminist. The feminist narrative simply isn't about men, in the same what that Black Lives Matter isn't about white people. The goals of either group are to highlight the particular injustices relating to their cause in an effort to create equality, not address all inequality between all races and genders.

When you start saying 'all lives matter' or state the injustices that are focused towards men, you are inserting yourself into their narrative. Which isn't to say that men's rights activists haven't got some valid points.

Similarly feminists shouldn't diminish men's rights issues such as child custody simply by stating how equally marginalised they are in a different respect. "

Thank you for this. You've said it better than I could...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Perhaps give me examples of the campaigns that some feminist groups have led to make positive change for human rights issues that disadvantage men?

Grape is Grape (remove the G) campaign - Launched by the Feminist Majority Foundation. As a result of the campaign, the FBI changed their definition of the r word to include men.

Feminist activism helped achieve paternity leave by increased pressure on the government to allow it - now new fathers are able to spend time with children when previously not.

Media - Feminist groups like The Representation Project work to shattering the enforced male/female stereotypes that are prevalent.

There are quite a few easily googled examples out there..."

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

seems you enjoyed the post

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