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"Is it possible to have a discussion with this person, try to get to the heart of their difficulty, try to find a way together to help but at tge same time, impress on them that you can't keep giving second chances and maybe set some eeadlihes and targets for improvement. " To be honest, no. Without going into too many specifics the work is just too bad. I just genuinely can't think of any logical sequence of events that would lead to a reasonably intelligent person doing that. We're not a charity and i have plenty of experience hiring people and seeing where they should be at after 3 months. Frankly I'd expect better from a GCSE student on work experience. | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. " Thanks, yes they will be paid up to tomorrow and I've gathered evidence of the shite work. It's not exactly difficult to prove the work is sub-par but you sound like you know the potential pit falls, and that's what stresses me out. | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. Thanks, yes they will be paid up to tomorrow and I've gathered evidence of the shite work. It's not exactly difficult to prove the work is sub-par but you sound like you know the potential pit falls, and that's what stresses me out." You're overthinking it . I employ over sixty people and barely a quarter goes by without me having to fire at least one member of staff . It's important to make sure they know exactly what the issue is , and be firm but fair , Three months is the usual trial period , so no problem legally as to why you shouldn't do what you have to do . | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. Thanks, yes they will be paid up to tomorrow and I've gathered evidence of the shite work. It's not exactly difficult to prove the work is sub-par but you sound like you know the potential pit falls, and that's what stresses me out." With 3 months service they have nowhere to go other than internal appeal, do the deed, remember the only reason you're getting rid is because they are 'shite'  | |||
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"It's a tough call. I've never had to do it, but I can imagine it's really difficult. However, this is why company's have probationary periods. Sometimes people just don't fit the job. I'd say to be clear, to the point, assertive and emphasise that it's been a difficult thing for you to do. I hope it goes well! " About 3 years ago i had to fire someone that i would objectively say was (at the least) a habitual liar. It was very stressful because you just can't predict what they will come out with next. That guy was a sales guy and there was always 1% truth to what he was saying but 99% bullshit. He always made it sound like you didn't want to fire him because he was about to land a huge deal that would reverse his complete absence of sales. Like if he called a potential customer who said "call back next week" (i.e. fuck off) then he'd turn that into "next week, i have a meeting with *insert important company name*" | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. Thanks, yes they will be paid up to tomorrow and I've gathered evidence of the shite work. It's not exactly difficult to prove the work is sub-par but you sound like you know the potential pit falls, and that's what stresses me out. You're overthinking it . I employ over sixty people and barely a quarter goes by without me having to fire at least one member of staff . It's important to make sure they know exactly what the issue is , and be firm but fair , Three months is the usual trial period , so no problem legally as to why you shouldn't do what you have to do . " It wouldn't normally stress me out so much if i could make a reasonable assessment of how the conversation was likely to go. It's bad enough that someone sends you a first draft with an empire state building in london but then it's still there in the final draft - what the fuck is wrong with them!? | |||
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"Have you adjusted the teaching methods when you retrained him? People learn in different ways. " At least 9 other people have been through the same training and delivered good work. There's no reason to change for him. | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? " Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. " Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. " Do you think they're maybe just having a particularly shit time at home then? I mean, I'm not saying you should make allowances because we should all try and leave personal stuff at home, but I think it'd make a difference to me, if I was an employer. | |||
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"Have you adjusted the teaching methods when you retrained him? People learn in different ways. At least 9 other people have been through the same training and delivered good work. There's no reason to change for him. " Sorry but I disagree. Good trainers will identify individual training needs and adapt accordingly to get the best out of the people they are training. Theres a quote here about asking a fish to climb a tree but I'm too tired to Google it. If you can truly say you gave given the guy every opportunity and done all in your power to train him to an acceptable level then of course you should dismiss him. Only you will know the truth of it. | |||
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"I still have the last 3 episodes of the last series & all the current one to catch up with!! JG x " Wrong post | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? " Yes, I've confronted him before and he just says something like "oh i forgot that" and then the mistake is still there in the final draft and then he says "oh i didn't write down your feedback". | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Do you think they're maybe just having a particularly shit time at home then? I mean, I'm not saying you should make allowances because we should all try and leave personal stuff at home, but I think it'd make a difference to me, if I was an employer. " They are but i have already relaxed deadlines to account for that. The quality of the work is the issue, i can't wait for weeks to get shite quality. | |||
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"I still have the last 3 episodes of the last series & all the current one to catch up with!! JG x " You want the Poldark thread love. Next thread up  | |||
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"I still have the last 3 episodes of the last series & all the current one to catch up with!! JG x "  | |||
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"Have you adjusted the teaching methods when you retrained him? People learn in different ways. At least 9 other people have been through the same training and delivered good work. There's no reason to change for him. Sorry but I disagree. Good trainers will identify individual training needs and adapt accordingly to get the best out of the people they are training. Theres a quote here about asking a fish to climb a tree but I'm too tired to Google it. If you can truly say you gave given the guy every opportunity and done all in your power to train him to an acceptable level then of course you should dismiss him. Only you will know the truth of it. " "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." I work in the public sector so our rules are a tad different. There would be re-setting of objectives, weekly discussions of meeting targets, and usually a very long and drawn out process that ends with the employee being sacked, then counter suing us for constructive dismissal. I am assuming the probationary period was clearly explained. | |||
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"Have you adjusted the teaching methods when you retrained him? People learn in different ways. At least 9 other people have been through the same training and delivered good work. There's no reason to change for him. Sorry but I disagree. Good trainers will identify individual training needs and adapt accordingly to get the best out of the people they are training. Theres a quote here about asking a fish to climb a tree but I'm too tired to Google it. If you can truly say you gave given the guy every opportunity and done all in your power to train him to an acceptable level then of course you should dismiss him. Only you will know the truth of it. " It's a matter of philosophy, this isn't McDonalds where i need to take unskilled people and make them productive. He is supposed to be an industry professional or at least striving to be. I'm not going to change for him because he doesn't have any skills that ten other people behind him don't have. If 30% of people going through the training were failing then i'd look at it but when it's 1/10 then I'm just going to replace him. Ultimately it would cost more to change our training than it would to replace him. | |||
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"Have you adjusted the teaching methods when you retrained him? People learn in different ways. At least 9 other people have been through the same training and delivered good work. There's no reason to change for him. Sorry but I disagree. Good trainers will identify individual training needs and adapt accordingly to get the best out of the people they are training. Theres a quote here about asking a fish to climb a tree but I'm too tired to Google it. If you can truly say you gave given the guy every opportunity and done all in your power to train him to an acceptable level then of course you should dismiss him. Only you will know the truth of it. "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." I work in the public sector so our rules are a tad different. There would be re-setting of objectives, weekly discussions of meeting targets, and usually a very long and drawn out process that ends with the employee being sacked, then counter suing us for constructive dismissal. I am assuming the probationary period was clearly explained." But our company needs people to climb trees. Our company is not some kind of eco system with a job for every type of person. | |||
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"It's a matter of philosophy, this isn't McDonalds where i need to take unskilled people and make them productive. He is supposed to be an industry professional or at least striving to be. I'm not going to change for him because he doesn't have any skills that ten other people behind him don't have. If 30% of people going through the training were failing then i'd look at it but when it's 1/10 then I'm just going to replace him. Ultimately it would cost more to change our training than it would to replace him. " Some people are not right for the job they are in. Prolonging it doesn't do them any favours either. | |||
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"OP this is never a nice thing to have to do but there are people who can help if you don't have an HR person/department. The ACAS helpline is fantastic. They will tell you what your options are and how to go about it so it's all done properly "Yeah ACAS are good, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm just worried I'm dealing with another nut job here. | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? Yes, I've confronted him before and he just says something like "oh i forgot that" and then the mistake is still there in the final draft and then he says "oh i didn't write down your feedback". " I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? | |||
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"OP this is never a nice thing to have to do but there are people who can help if you don't have an HR person/department. The ACAS helpline is fantastic. They will tell you what your options are and how to go about it so it's all done properly
Yeah ACAS are good, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm just worried I'm dealing with another nut job here. "Get their support so you are on top things. Have someone nearby f there's a possibility of them kicking off. | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? Yes, I've confronted him before and he just says something like "oh i forgot that" and then the mistake is still there in the final draft and then he says "oh i didn't write down your feedback". I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? " I don't believe he has any potential to be honest | |||
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"I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? " That's a luxury for the corporates. Most small to medium businesses just need people to work well for them. Not to nanny those that aren't up to it | |||
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"Sounds like you've made the decision, probably best not to post too much more on a public forum? " I've chosen my words carefully. | |||
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"I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? That's a luxury for the corporates. Most small to medium businesses just need people to work well for them. Not to nanny those that aren't up to it "Yup, It's a small company. I just can't figure out where his interview piece came from. It was excellent. I'm guessing he got someone else to write it now, but then how did he expect to stay in the job after?!? | |||
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"Yup, It's a small company. I just can't figure out where his interview piece came from. It was excellent. I'm guessing he got someone else to write it now, but then how did he expect to stay in the job after?!? " Maybe he didn't think past getting the job  | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress."  | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress." Don't agree with this whatsoever. Theres nothing wrong with having some humility... | |||
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"Yup, It's a small company. I just can't figure out where his interview piece came from. It was excellent. I'm guessing he got someone else to write it now, but then how did he expect to stay in the job after?!? Maybe he didn't think past getting the job "Probably not but i just can't relate to that and can't get inside what he's thinking. Rationally i expect him to say "you know what, I'm relieved because I'm out of my depth and i knew it was coming" but then i also wonder if i have another nutter on my hands who is going to say "so what if i made a few little mistakes, you know the problems i have at home". | |||
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"OP this is never a nice thing to have to do but there are people who can help if you don't have an HR person/department. The ACAS helpline is fantastic. They will tell you what your options are and how to go about it so it's all done properly
Yeah ACAS are good, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm just worried I'm dealing with another nut job here. "He or she might behave reasonably, you never know. All you can do is remain professional yourself and make sure that both you and the soon to be ex-employee have representation/witnesses. Hope it goes well | |||
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"Perhaps you need to discuss with this person ... if they are caring for someone , they may be struggling ... both mentally and physically ... Contract wise....you dont owe them anything ....but the least you can do is show a little human kindness ... I cared for two of my relatives ( both dead now ) ... I dont know how I did it ... and worked too .. I struggled I know that .... Talk to them ....Please" Well actually I'm in the meeting with someone doing an HR role. Our company isn't big enough to have an HR depertment but we use an external HR consultant. They will lead the meeting their instructions are "fire him unless he has an amazing explanation for the quality issues". | |||
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"Yup, It's a small company. I just can't figure out where his interview piece came from. It was excellent. I'm guessing he got someone else to write it now, but then how did he expect to stay in the job after?!? Maybe he didn't think past getting the job
Probably not but i just can't relate to that and can't get inside what he's thinking.
Rationally i expect him to say "you know what, I'm relieved because I'm out of my depth and i knew it was coming" but then i also wonder if i have another nutter on my hands who is going to say "so what if i made a few little mistakes, you know the problems i have at home". "I think you probably need to stop referring to them as a nutter too. You're going to go into it expecting problems and its fairly offensive too | |||
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"Yup, It's a small company. I just can't figure out where his interview piece came from. It was excellent. I'm guessing he got someone else to write it now, but then how did he expect to stay in the job after?!? Maybe he didn't think past getting the job
Probably not but i just can't relate to that and can't get inside what he's thinking.
Rationally i expect him to say "you know what, I'm relieved because I'm out of my depth and i knew it was coming" but then i also wonder if i have another nutter on my hands who is going to say "so what if i made a few little mistakes, you know the problems i have at home".
I think you probably need to stop referring to them as a nutter too. You're going to go into it expecting problems and its fairly offensive too"I'm not referring to them as a nutter. I'm saying that's the only explanation i can think of for someone that would cause trouble and try to defend this performance. When you've been through a protracted firing process with a habitual liar then you'd understand. | |||
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"Firstly if it's the right decision for the business try not to feel bad and personalise it. That's the hardest part even now I have sleepless nights if I have to fire someone. Next have a second person there to record the meeting Give them the bad news without trying to be nice about it explain the reasons and confirm it in writing offer them the opportunity to resign..they often take it have all the financials sorted out in advance don't allow them to work notice..pay and get them out of the door straight away... They have limited rights if employed less than 12 months After its done don't feel bad or second guess yourself good luck I hope it goes as well as it can... And in case you think this is totally heartless...i still can't ever do it without feeling bad for the rest of the day... So after go drink coffee and then try to go back to whatever else you have to do " Thanks, they need to bring the equipment the company issued to them into the meeting so hopefully they'll get the drift | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? Yes, I've confronted him before and he just says something like "oh i forgot that" and then the mistake is still there in the final draft and then he says "oh i didn't write down your feedback". I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? I don't believe he has any potential to be honest" Well you obviously know what the outcome is going to be then. I have hired and fired a few people in my time and it's never easy knowing that you actually made a mistake by giving them the job in the first place. It's all part and parcel of being a boss though. Good luck OP and try and guide him in the right direction | |||
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"Did you initially interview and set them on in the first place OP? Yes, that's what's amazing. He had to write a piece as part of the recruitment - it was good and i checked for plagiarism too. Has it gone past the point where you can have a meeting to discuss why the work has differed so much from the interview? Yes, I've confronted him before and he just says something like "oh i forgot that" and then the mistake is still there in the final draft and then he says "oh i didn't write down your feedback". I obviously don't know about your company's policies, but if you believe he has potential, how about some "gardening leave" so he can sort his domestic problems out? I don't believe he has any potential to be honest Well you obviously know what the outcome is going to be then. I have hired and fired a few people in my time and it's never easy knowing that you actually made a mistake by giving them the job in the first place. It's all part and parcel of being a boss though. Good luck OP and try and guide him in the right direction "Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good | |||
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"Firstly if it's the right decision for the business try not to feel bad and personalise it. That's the hardest part even now I have sleepless nights if I have to fire someone. Next have a second person there to record the meeting Give them the bad news without trying to be nice about it explain the reasons and confirm it in writing offer them the opportunity to resign..they often take it have all the financials sorted out in advance don't allow them to work notice..pay and get them out of the door straight away... They have limited rights if employed less than 12 months After its done don't feel bad or second guess yourself good luck I hope it goes as well as it can... And in case you think this is totally heartless...i still can't ever do it without feeling bad for the rest of the day... So after go drink coffee and then try to go back to whatever else you have to do " It's 24 months employment before an employee can file any action on a claim for unfair dismissal. I work in crisis management, and the first ones to go are the under performers who have been employed less than 24 months. Any under performers who have been employed longer, I performance manage out of the door. I don't feel bad about it, I see them as a liability that puts the company at jeapordy, and therefore those who do perform well have their jobs put at jeapordy because of them. | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good " Call them,they may still be interested. | |||
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"How do you know hes an habitual liar .... after 3 months ....he obviously has other stuff going on ....and trying to work too ." I don't, i said i fired someone 3 years ago that was a habitual liar and it was a very stressful experience. I'm worried i have another one on my hands. | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested." To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. | |||
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"Sounds like you've made the decision, probably best not to post too much more on a public forum? I've chosen my words carefully. " Nutjob was chosen carefully? Alrighty then. | |||
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"Firstly if it's the right decision for the business try not to feel bad and personalise it. That's the hardest part even now I have sleepless nights if I have to fire someone. Next have a second person there to record the meeting Give them the bad news without trying to be nice about it explain the reasons and confirm it in writing offer them the opportunity to resign..they often take it have all the financials sorted out in advance don't allow them to work notice..pay and get them out of the door straight away... They have limited rights if employed less than 12 months After its done don't feel bad or second guess yourself good luck I hope it goes as well as it can... And in case you think this is totally heartless...i still can't ever do it without feeling bad for the rest of the day... So after go drink coffee and then try to go back to whatever else you have to do It's 24 months employment before an employee can file any action on a claim for unfair dismissal. I work in crisis management, and the first ones to go are the under performers who have been employed less than 24 months. Any under performers who have been employed longer, I performance manage out of the door. I don't feel bad about it, I see them as a liability that puts the company at jeapordy, and therefore those who do perform well have their jobs put at jeapordy because of them. " Don't disagree with what you say but anyone who gets to the point of enjoying sacking others had been doing it too long. I have had to do it....too often and yet no matter how correct the decision or what the person's circumstances you are changing their and maybe their families lives. Being aware of that as well as the corporate considerations it is a responsibility that lies heavy on anyone who has a concern for more than the balence sheet. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress." Disgusting | |||
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"How do you know hes an habitual liar .... after 3 months ....he obviously has other stuff going on ....and trying to work too . I don't, i said i fired someone 3 years ago that was a habitual liar and it was a very stressful experience. I'm worried i have another one on my hands. " but you also might not. Any situation like this makes you go over all the possibilities but you're giving precedence to the bad possibility. It's natural but not conducive to a good night's sleep. You have strategies to deal with it, you know you're doing the right thing and history is unlikely to repeat itself. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. Disgusting " Isn't it illegal to give a negative reference? | |||
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"Maybe they are just out of their depth at the moment and their mind is shot with stuff at home. They may be relieved you are getting rid as it takes the burden of giving up on a job out of their hands. Not really relieved, but in a "that's a stress taken off my shoulders" kind of thing. Anyway, it's never an easy or pleasant thing to do. One of the more horrible parts of being in management. " That's what i consider the most likely explanation | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. Disgusting " You know what else is disgusting, lying to get a job and preventing someone better qualified getting it. Not to mention ripping off a small company for 3 months with incoherent work. | |||
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"For now op, it's important for you to relax and put it out of your mind Imo. It's something for tomorrow " There are some times in life where you just wish there was a button to skip 24 hours ahead in your life | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. Disgusting Isn't it illegal to give a negative reference? " Yes it is. However, if going a reference for someone I fired, Imwoukd simply write employed on such a date, left on such a date. That is the bare minimum you are required to supply legally, and usually speaks volumes to a employer reviewing such reference. | |||
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"Firstly if it's the right decision for the business try not to feel bad and personalise it. That's the hardest part even now I have sleepless nights if I have to fire someone. Next have a second person there to record the meeting Give them the bad news without trying to be nice about it explain the reasons and confirm it in writing offer them the opportunity to resign..they often take it have all the financials sorted out in advance don't allow them to work notice..pay and get them out of the door straight away... They have limited rights if employed less than 12 months After its done don't feel bad or second guess yourself good luck I hope it goes as well as it can... And in case you think this is totally heartless...i still can't ever do it without feeling bad for the rest of the day... So after go drink coffee and then try to go back to whatever else you have to do It's 24 months employment before an employee can file any action on a claim for unfair dismissal. I work in crisis management, and the first ones to go are the under performers who have been employed less than 24 months. Any under performers who have been employed longer, I performance manage out of the door. I don't feel bad about it, I see them as a liability that puts the company at jeapordy, and therefore those who do perform well have their jobs put at jeapordy because of them. Don't disagree with what you say but anyone who gets to the point of enjoying sacking others had been doing it too long. I have had to do it....too often and yet no matter how correct the decision or what the person's circumstances you are changing their and maybe their families lives. Being aware of that as well as the corporate considerations it is a responsibility that lies heavy on anyone who has a concern for more than the balence sheet." I'm not sure I said I enjoy it, however my responsibility to valued employers as well as the viability of the business is my first concern, and I won't let the loss of someone who puts either at risk weigh heavy on me, I have far more important burdens. I will admit my role does become emotionally numbing to such situations, however, it is necessary to be effective and safeguard what is important. | |||
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"...The fact that you're up this late worrying about it is a sign of your good nature. The fact it's causing you this grief is their doing. " No it's not. OP admits it's due to reflecting on a previous experience that he doesn't want a repeat of. | |||
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"I'm just interested to hear comments from people who have taken the decision to fire people at work. I feel like my weekend has been ruined by someone who i need to fire tomorrow. It's been playing on my mind and I'm apprehensive about their reaction. I really can't understand their mindset, which is why it's stressing me out so much because i really can't predict how they will react. They have only been with the company 3 months, their performance is terrible. Initially i assumed they just needed more training but now they are doing tasks for the third or fourth time that are just as bad as the first. Rationally i think they must know the work is shite but then what if they don't and I'm dealing with a delusional / insane person!? Yes they have some personal issues at home looking after an elderly relative. That explains why all the work is late, but it doesn't explain why the work is such poor quality when it is done. Imagine someones job is to write a review of the tourist attractions in london. To help them out you give them a review of New York as a good example of the quality we expect. Then they change about six lines and give it back to you. And you are like "err bob, there's no empire state building in london". I mean what the fuck is going through their head? What do they think is going to happen??? " All I would say is to make sure you do it by the book or you open yourself up for unfair dismissal claims etc And remember you don't owe them anything as it's your business and can't have one person dragging you down | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested. To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. " this the real reason ? One guy ultra productive other not so good ,so sack the not so good.one guy ends up covering two jobs ,maybe thats the reason ? | |||
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"I agree with phoning the acas helpine Document everything and as long as they don't have any protected characteristics it should be low risk Just be aware of the equalities act look up the acas website it's all there OP Pm me if you wish too x " . What's a "protected characteristic" anyhow  | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested. To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. this the real reason ? One guy ultra productive other not so good ,so sack the not so good.one guy ends up covering two jobs ,maybe thats the reason ?" The reasons are as stated in the thread. It's not a case of "not so good" - his work is complete shite | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested. To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. this the real reason ? One guy ultra productive other not so good ,so sack the not so good.one guy ends up covering two jobs ,maybe thats the reason ? The reasons are as stated in the thread. It's not a case of "not so good" - his work is complete shite" I wouldn't bother trying to explain on here anymore, there will always be some snowflake trying to blame you no matter how bad the employee is... Get rid and concentrate on your business, it's hard enough without someone dragging you down... | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. " Call in HR to do it  | |||
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"Make certain you have at least 1 witness, don't give notice,if you need to give them the required wages but out the door imediately. Then triple check your paperwork. There is no comeback after only 3 months, but you still need to be squeaky clean if they appeal. Call in HR to do it ". Or Frankie gamboni  | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested. To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. ?" Does he know he will be doing the job of two people for his bonus? | |||
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"Yes that also pisses me off because the second place candidate was actually very good Call them,they may still be interested. To be honest im going to try and cope without for a while. Another worker has become awesome this year, just matured into the role and become ultra productive. I'd rather save the recruitment costs and give them a massive bonus. ? Does he know he will be doing the job of two people for his bonus?" He already is given how shite the other guy has been for 3 months, the only thing he doesn't know is that he's getting a huge bonus | |||
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"I bet he would rather have the wage of two instead if he is doing his work too" Nothing stopping him starting his own company if that's what he wants | |||
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"I bet he would rather have the wage of two instead if he is doing his work too Nothing stopping him starting his own company if that's what he wants" | |||
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"I'm just interested to hear comments from people who have taken the decision to fire people at work. I feel like my weekend has been ruined by someone who i need to fire tomorrow. It's been playing on my mind and I'm apprehensive about their reaction. I really can't understand their mindset, which is why it's stressing me out so much because i really can't predict how they will react. They have only been with the company 3 months, their performance is terrible. Initially i assumed they just needed more training but now they are doing tasks for the third or fourth time that are just as bad as the first. Rationally i think they must know the work is shite but then what if they don't and I'm dealing with a delusional / insane person!? Yes they have some personal issues at home looking after an elderly relative. That explains why all the work is late, but it doesn't explain why the work is such poor quality when it is done. Imagine someones job is to write a review of the tourist attractions in london. To help them out you give them a review of New York as a good example of the quality we expect. Then they change about six lines and give it back to you. And you are like "err bob, there's no empire state building in london". I mean what the fuck is going through their head? What do they think is going to happen??? " Ms Myth (HighHeels) can help. She can show you how to fire with a smile. | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you " No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. | |||
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"i have to ask - did you take up references before you signed him up " No, his past experience wasn't relevant and i generally have a low opinion of references. I know now what the issue is and it's not something references would have picked up either. | |||
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"Are you able to say what the issues are on here?" In general terms there's a vast difference between their spoken english (fluent) and their reading / writing english (poor). I can't really be more specific. They weren't born in this country. | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. " So.you are going to sack rather than support them? | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. So.you are going to sack rather than support them?" Trust me, sometimes you can support until the cows come home and it is still a waste of time, Ive been there and done that. Sometimes you have to think about the integrity and reputation of your workplace | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. So.you are going to sack rather than support them?" Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread properly | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. So.you are going to sack rather than support them? Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread properly" Yes I have. You've discovered why the employee isn't cutting it. And getting rid . | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. So.you are going to sack rather than support them?" The person is on trial, he was shit at the trail, I am not sure why he should be supported as that means more time on people who are shit at their job. | |||
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"Hope your day went as well as it could...noe relax breathe drink wine and our it behind you No the fucking thing got delayed until tomorrow or Wednesday because the HR person needed to check some stuff with payroll. I have at least worked out why his work is so utterly terrible now, from a colleague. So.you are going to sack rather than support them? Sounds like someone hasn't read the thread properly Yes I have. You've discovered why the employee isn't cutting it. And getting rid ." So putting aside the fact that it's a business not a charity, how exactly could i support them? | |||
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"Are you able to say what the issues are on here? In general terms there's a vast difference between their spoken english (fluent) and their reading / writing english (poor). I can't really be more specific. They weren't born in this country. " P!ease forgive me if I am misunderstanding this, you're sacking them because they aren't English?? If it's because of their literacy, how have you only just noticed?? Either could be a PR minefield. | |||
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"I'm just interested to hear comments from people who have taken the decision to fire people at work. I feel like my weekend has been ruined by someone who i need to fire tomorrow. It's been playing on my mind and I'm apprehensive about their reaction. I really can't understand their mindset, which is why it's stressing me out so much because i really can't predict how they will react. They have only been with the company 3 months, their performance is terrible. Initially i assumed they just needed more training but now they are doing tasks for the third or fourth time that are just as bad as the first. Rationally i think they must know the work is shite but then what if they don't and I'm dealing with a delusional / insane person!? Yes they have some personal issues at home looking after an elderly relative. That explains why all the work is late, but it doesn't explain why the work is such poor quality when it is done. Imagine someones job is to write a review of the tourist attractions in london. To help them out you give them a review of New York as a good example of the quality we expect. Then they change about six lines and give it back to you. And you are like "err bob, there's no empire state building in london". I mean what the fuck is going through their head? What do they think is going to happen??? " I think that they have not been given adequate instructions or examples of what is needed. They produce what they are asked for and get blamed for someone else's poor communication. I also think they are being set unreasonable deadlines and are not being given enough time to produce work of a good standard. I think they are working with insufficient resources and badly maintained tools because their company is penny pinching. I think they are being slowly eroded as a human being and being treated like a piece of machinery. I don't think that enough is done within the company to look after the mental well being of employees. I think their boss should go. | |||
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"Are you able to say what the issues are on here? In general terms there's a vast difference between their spoken english (fluent) and their reading / writing english (poor). I can't really be more specific. They weren't born in this country. P!ease forgive me if I am misunderstanding this, you're sacking them because they aren't English?? If it's because of their literacy, how have you only just noticed?? Either could be a PR minefield." Yes you are misunderstanding. They are being fired because about 50% of their job is writing reports in english and they are not able to do that. If you follow the thread it's pretty easy to see why it's taken this long. | |||
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"I'm just interested to hear comments from people who have taken the decision to fire people at work. I feel like my weekend has been ruined by someone who i need to fire tomorrow. It's been playing on my mind and I'm apprehensive about their reaction. I really can't understand their mindset, which is why it's stressing me out so much because i really can't predict how they will react. They have only been with the company 3 months, their performance is terrible. Initially i assumed they just needed more training but now they are doing tasks for the third or fourth time that are just as bad as the first. Rationally i think they must know the work is shite but then what if they don't and I'm dealing with a delusional / insane person!? Yes they have some personal issues at home looking after an elderly relative. That explains why all the work is late, but it doesn't explain why the work is such poor quality when it is done. Imagine someones job is to write a review of the tourist attractions in london. To help them out you give them a review of New York as a good example of the quality we expect. Then they change about six lines and give it back to you. And you are like "err bob, there's no empire state building in london". I mean what the fuck is going through their head? What do they think is going to happen??? I think that they have not been given adequate instructions or examples of what is needed. They produce what they are asked for and get blamed for someone else's poor communication. I also think they are being set unreasonable deadlines and are not being given enough time to produce work of a good standard. I think they are working with insufficient resources and badly maintained tools because their company is penny pinching. I think they are being slowly eroded as a human being and being treated like a piece of machinery. I don't think that enough is done within the company to look after the mental well being of employees. I think their boss should go. " You either haven't read the thread or you are insane. | |||
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"Of course I've read the thread. Now why would you say i'm insane ?" Because all your points are pretty much the opposite of the facts. | |||
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"I'm just interested to hear comments from people who have taken the decision to fire people at work. I feel like my weekend has been ruined by someone who i need to fire tomorrow. It's been playing on my mind and I'm apprehensive about their reaction. I really can't understand their mindset, which is why it's stressing me out so much because i really can't predict how they will react. They have only been with the company 3 months, their performance is terrible. Initially i assumed they just needed more training but now they are doing tasks for the third or fourth time that are just as bad as the first. Rationally i think they must know the work is shite but then what if they don't and I'm dealing with a delusional / insane person!? Yes they have some personal issues at home looking after an elderly relative. That explains why all the work is late, but it doesn't explain why the work is such poor quality when it is done. Imagine someones job is to write a review of the tourist attractions in london. To help them out you give them a review of New York as a good example of the quality we expect. Then they change about six lines and give it back to you. And you are like "err bob, there's no empire state building in london". I mean what the fuck is going through their head? What do they think is going to happen??? I think that they have not been given adequate instructions or examples of what is needed. They produce what they are asked for and get blamed for someone else's poor communication. I also think they are being set unreasonable deadlines and are not being given enough time to produce work of a good standard. I think they are working with insufficient resources and badly maintained tools because their company is penny pinching. I think they are being slowly eroded as a human being and being treated like a piece of machinery. I don't think that enough is done within the company to look after the mental well being of employees. I think their boss should go. " So how much of your own time and money would you be prepared to sacrifice to keep this person on at the integrity of your own business? Im interested  | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow "Where did i ask for HR advice? | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow "No HR advice was asked for, if you could be bothered to read! Also, does every thread posted have to be sex related? Get a grip! | |||
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"Yes I'm just too lazy to read the whole thread. I got about twenty in and woke up with drool coming out the side of my mouth..... Maybe never asked for advice....but plenty are giving it. Touchy...." Thought as much! Sounds like a typical Scottish man | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow "no one is joking here - comments were asked for from people who had been in the same situation and how it affected them - and not many have actually answered that | |||
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"Of course I've read the thread. Now why would you say i'm insane ? Because all your points are pretty much the opposite of the facts. " . Oohhhh so now your an ageist as well as a xenophobic sexist capitalist!... | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow
no one is joking here - comments were asked for from people who had been in the same situation and how it affected them - and not many have actually answered that "It's very apparent from the responses which people have been in the situation and which people haven't. I am slightly bemused at the volume of people that seem to think the company owes him a job. In another time it would have been interesting to know whether the people responding were employed in the private sector, self employed or employed in the public sector. I think i could guess with 75% accuracy. | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow "Pot Kettle...... | |||
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"Of course I've read the thread. Now why would you say i'm insane ? Because all your points are pretty much the opposite of the facts. . Oohhhh so now your an ageist as well as a xenophobic sexist capitalist!... "And the one that discriminates against nutters | |||
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"It's very apparent from the responses which people have been in the situation and which people haven't. I am slightly bemused at the volume of people that seem to think the company owes him a job. In another time it would have been interesting to know whether the people responding were employed in the private sector, self employed or employed in the public sector. I think i could guess with 75% accuracy. " The procedure for removing a member of staff is different for public sector workers because our wages are paid for by the tax payer, not by the CEO/shareholders. That doesn't mean they are wrong. In fact, it makes for a much more robust process, although it also becomes a very lengthy process! However, now you have mentioned that English is not his second language, you will have to work very closely with the independent witness to ensure your records show that he has been given all the support necessary to perform his job during his probationary period. Its one of the things the public sector has to tread very carefully with. | |||
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" It's very apparent from the responses which people have been in the situation and which people haven't. I am slightly bemused at the volume of people that seem to think the company owes him a job. In another time it would have been interesting to know whether the people responding were employed in the private sector, self employed or employed in the public sector. I think i could guess with 75% accuracy. " | |||
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"so you're concerned that giving this fella the tin-tack will make him go postal? " awright m8! BB's worried that this nutter might turn aht to be a right fork and spooney! | |||
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"so you're concerned that giving this fella the tin-tack will make him go postal? awright m8! BB's worried that this nutter might turn aht to be a right fork and spooney!" | |||
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"well if it's your role to hire and fire people then man up and get on with your job instead of wobbling about it in that case." decision has already been made is how i read it - that wasnt the query | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow
no one is joking here - comments were asked for from people who had been in the same situation and how it affected them - and not many have actually answered that
It's very apparent from the responses which people have been in the situation and which people haven't. I am slightly bemused at the volume of people that seem to think the company owes him a job. In another time it would have been interesting to know whether the people responding were employed in the private sector, self employed or employed in the public sector. I think i could guess with 75% accuracy. "I had to fire someone as their work wasn't up to scratch. Fortunately for me they only had a three month contract so it was easy to just not renew it. I felt bad as they guy had just had a baby with his wife; but I couldn't spend all my time micro managing them to ensure their work was up to standard. | |||
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"well if it's your role to hire and fire people then man up and get on with your job instead of wobbling about it in that case. decision has already been made is how i read it - that wasnt the query" Exactly, decision is made, just not enjoying the experience or the lingering period. Also pissed off about missing the person we passed over during recruitment. | |||
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"All joking aside, I've seen some bizarre subject matter on this site but FFS if you have to come on here asking HR advice then I think you need to have a good word with yourself. It's a tricky situation and I've been in similar. It's not to be taken lightly but seeking the opinion of a bunch of strangers on a sex site?! Wow
no one is joking here - comments were asked for from people who had been in the same situation and how it affected them - and not many have actually answered that
It's very apparent from the responses which people have been in the situation and which people haven't. I am slightly bemused at the volume of people that seem to think the company owes him a job. In another time it would have been interesting to know whether the people responding were employed in the private sector, self employed or employed in the public sector. I think i could guess with 75% accuracy.
I had to fire someone as their work wasn't up to scratch. Fortunately for me they only had a three month contract so it was easy to just not renew it. I felt bad as they guy had just had a baby with his wife; but I couldn't spend all my time micro managing them to ensure their work was up to standard."I've literally doubled deadlines to allow him time to take care of the elderly relative. Allowed him to work entirely flexible hours. If the end result was half decent then it would be a different story. I'm pretty sure he got someone else to write the interview piece. | |||
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"well if it's your role to hire and fire people then man up and get on with your job instead of wobbling about it in that case. decision has already been made is how i read it - that wasnt the query Exactly, decision is made, just not enjoying the experience or the lingering period. Also pissed off about missing the person we passed over during recruitment. " that's where the bit "get on with your job instead of wobbling about it" is relevant. the fact is, any time spent dwelling on the matter is negatively impacting on your productivity. | |||
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"well if it's your role to hire and fire people then man up and get on with your job instead of wobbling about it in that case. decision has already been made is how i read it - that wasnt the query Exactly, decision is made, just not enjoying the experience or the lingering period. Also pissed off about missing the person we passed over during recruitment. that's where the bit "get on with your job instead of wobbling about it" is relevant. the fact is, any time spent dwelling on the matter is negatively impacting on your productivity. " I think one should have a plan for a situation that might go postal. Also i needed to figure out why his performance was so bad so i don't repeat the mistake when we eventually replace him. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress." You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. | |||
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" I think one should have a plan for a situation that might go postal. Also i needed to figure out why his performance was so bad so i don't repeat the mistake when we eventually replace him. " If you have your HR person in the exit / firing meeting then just have security escort them out and direct any irate calls to this HR rep. Was the interview piece written beforehand or during the interview? I give technical quizzes so I see no reason why you can't ask them to write some work on site for you as part f the interview process | |||
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" I think one should have a plan for a situation that might go postal. Also i needed to figure out why his performance was so bad so i don't repeat the mistake when we eventually replace him. If you have your HR person in the exit / firing meeting then just have security escort them out and direct any irate calls to this HR rep. Was the interview piece written beforehand or during the interview? I give technical quizzes so I see no reason why you can't ask them to write some work on site for you as part f the interview process " It was done remotely after the face to face interview. It's was about 6 pages and it's not designed to be a test of how they work under pressure, more their creativity. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. " dont think you have to give a - reference - which speaks volumes - stand to be corrected on that one | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. " Not in any way bitter, but have fallen prey to week managers who give false references presumably to offset the ill conceived guilt of having to sack someone. You can't put unproven allagations into a reference, but it is very possible to give a negative reference within the law. As someone posted above start date, end date and nothing else says all that's needed. A bad employee allowed to carry on receiving a pay cheque is bad for moral of the whole team, sometimes the whole company. So I have little sympathy with the perpetrators and even less for managers who let it happen. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. Not in any way bitter, but have fallen prey to week managers who give false references presumably to offset the ill conceived guilt of having to sack someone. You can't put unproven allagations into a reference, but it is very possible to give a negative reference within the law. As someone posted above start date, end date and nothing else says all that's needed. A bad employee allowed to carry on receiving a pay cheque is bad for moral of the whole team, sometimes the whole company. So I have little sympathy with the perpetrators and even less for managers who let it happen." Just because they were shit when you managed them, doesn't mean another company wouldn't suit them, does it? They might be great in a place with a different culture/different manager or even a different industry sector. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. Not in any way bitter, but have fallen prey to week managers who give false references presumably to offset the ill conceived guilt of having to sack someone. You can't put unproven allagations into a reference, but it is very possible to give a negative reference within the law. As someone posted above start date, end date and nothing else says all that's needed. A bad employee allowed to carry on receiving a pay cheque is bad for moral of the whole team, sometimes the whole company. So I have little sympathy with the perpetrators and even less for managers who let it happen. Just because they were shit when you managed them, doesn't mean another company wouldn't suit them, does it? They might be great in a place with a different culture/different manager or even a different industry sector. " Yes he's a fairly nice person with reasonably good social skills. He's just a fish when we need a monkey. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. You can't give a negative reference nowadays. Also; just because an emplyee diesn't fit in one place, doesn't mean he wouldn't suit anither. Your response seems very bitter. Not in any way bitter, but have fallen prey to week managers who give false references presumably to offset the ill conceived guilt of having to sack someone. You can't put unproven allagations into a reference, but it is very possible to give a negative reference within the law. As someone posted above start date, end date and nothing else says all that's needed. A bad employee allowed to carry on receiving a pay cheque is bad for moral of the whole team, sometimes the whole company. So I have little sympathy with the perpetrators and even less for managers who let it happen. Just because they were shit when you managed them, doesn't mean another company wouldn't suit them, does it? They might be great in a place with a different culture/different manager or even a different industry sector. Yes he's a fairly nice person with reasonably good social skills. He's just a fish when we need a monkey. " Yeah, I wasn't knocking you, more the poster above who wants to give an employee he/his company can't use a bad reference, presumably to try and keep him/her our of employment for the forseeable, which comes across as both vindictive and bitter. | |||
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"It's a bad employee not a dependant family member, job needs doing employee isn't doing it so needs to go. Special training adjustments and extra chances are helping nobody. Get rid, replace, don't lose sleep. Better still give honest negative references if asked. Save someone else the stress. Don't agree with this whatsoever. Theres nothing wrong with having some humility..." But why should a small business carry someone who is no good? Pay wages, holidays, pensions just to be 'nice'? And the effect on the morale of the other staff is usually detrimental too  | |||
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" Was the interview piece written beforehand or during the interview? I give technical quizzes so I see no reason why you can't ask them to write some work on site for you as part of the interview process " Winner! If you're gonna hire somebody to write for you make sure they can write! A simple 'Emergency contacts' form will show if they are walking the walk or just talking the talk. | |||
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"Just because they were shit when you managed them, doesn't mean another company wouldn't suit them, does it? They might be great in a place with a different culture/different manager or even a different industry sector. " Very true, everyone has something to offer, my line of work required a very specific skill set, and I have had references telling me that people had those skills, despite them being unable to resolve simple questions in interview. Which often left me at odds with the HR people who judged on the paper exercise, as they also didn't have the skill set to ask the right questions. More than one occasion my team have suffered excess work and stress because HR recruited a square peg for our round hole. | |||
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"He didn't go postal. He did ask for another opportunity and was promptly told there was no chance of that happening. He decided he wanted to resign shortly after. All done and dusted. " At least it now finished with | |||
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"He didn't go postal. He did ask for another opportunity and was promptly told there was no chance of that happening. He decided he wanted to resign shortly after. All done and dusted. " | |||
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"Perhaps he needs help with literacy and numeracy .... if he is from another country perhaps he needs help to access a course ... " Would be a tad ambitious to go for a job as a creative writer if you needed help with literacy. Brick layers can't be brain surgeons just because it starts with the same letter! | |||
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"Perhaps he needs help with literacy and numeracy .... if he is from another country perhaps he needs help to access a course ... Would be a tad ambitious to go for a job as a creative writer if you needed help with literacy. Brick layers can't be brain surgeons just because it starts with the same letter! " | |||
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"Perhaps he needs help with literacy and numeracy .... if he is from another country perhaps he needs help to access a course ... Would be a tad ambitious to go for a job as a creative writer if you needed help with literacy. Brick layers can't be brain surgeons just because it starts with the same letter! " So on what skills did he get the job | |||
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"Perhaps he needs help with literacy and numeracy .... if he is from another country perhaps he needs help to access a course ... Would be a tad ambitious to go for a job as a creative writer if you needed help with literacy. Brick layers can't be brain surgeons just because it starts with the same letter! So on what skills did he get the job " It's all in the thread, but there was a writing test in the interview. All sorted now anyway. | |||
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"Perhaps he needs help with literacy and numeracy .... if he is from another country perhaps he needs help to access a course ... " . The only thing the guy needed was more hours in a week.  | |||
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