FabSwingers.com forum: London Flats Fire

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I've not been on for a couple of days but seen no mention or has it been on a different forum ?

R I P all .

It has shown that all races and religions can pull together tho

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

there was one in the Lounge forum..

on your 2nd point totally agree, it show's those from both the far right and the terrorists who only seek hatred and division that when push comes to shove people of all different religions and races come together to help others in the community..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not trying to score political points here but I was disappointed to see the PM NOT meeting with victims and survivors.

Could she have been worried about the reception she might have got given that the London mayor, Sadiq Khan apparently got a bit of abuse?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Not trying to score political points here but I was disappointed to see the PM NOT meeting with victims and survivors.

Could she have been worried about the reception she might have got given that the London mayor, Sadiq Khan apparently got a bit of abuse? "

I would imagine that she would have been advised that this wasn't the time or place. There is a lot of anger down there right now, and having hundreds of angry people, egged on by the media, in your face would have been both foolish and not safe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do."

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think the blame game is for later

but I do think it looks like the people have been left to fend for themselves

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

She is the prime minister. She is the leader of this country (for now). What messages does it send to go along to a tragedy like this and not even meet some of the people?

It doesn't have to be her fault for her to be able to show a bit of humanity... but frankly she seems to be showing lately that that is quite beyond her.

Clearly there are questions surrounding the incident. There are reports of complaints being ignored, and reports being sat on for years. A good leader would at least turn up to meet the people affected and give a genuine promise to investigate what went on.

But of course right now, it is so low down on her radar is she is too busy trying to put our her own political dumpster fire.

-Matt

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Khan had the cameras following him and paid for the exposure.

May at least visited the scene low key.

Corbyn hugged victims and mingled with them at the nearby church again low key.

I respect Corbyn for how he has presented himself. I can't stand him but he showed a nice compassionate human touch here and I believe without ego or agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

She is the prime minister. She is the leader of this country (for now). What messages does it send to go along to a tragedy like this and not even meet some of the people?

It doesn't have to be her fault for her to be able to show a bit of humanity... but frankly she seems to be showing lately that that is quite beyond her.

But of course right now, it is so low down on her radar is she is too busy trying to put our her own political dumpster fire.

-Matt"

I take it you did not see the interviews on tv where people were blaming May. You really are losing the plot

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He is winning people over even me !

And I never thought I'd say that in a million years !

Money needs to go on the back burner !!!

And all flats needs sprinklers now !!

It could be done in weeks no probs !!!

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"He is winning people over even me !

And I never thought I'd say that in a million years !

Money needs to go on the back burner !!!

And all flats needs sprinklers now !!

It could be done in weeks no probs !!! "

I think you'll find that the civil engineers etc will tell you otherwise!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"He is winning people over even me !

And I never thought I'd say that in a million years !

Money needs to go on the back burner !!!

And all flats needs sprinklers now !!

It could be done in weeks no probs !!!

I think you'll find that the civil engineers etc will tell you otherwise!"

I work in construction !

And I'm sure if the money was there it could be done !

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Could be plenty of work coming your way soon then!

Joking aside, I'm hearing that the authorities are bracing themselves for upto 100 fatalities...a disaster.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yes I reckon Sadly we will be looking at 100 plus !

I'm actually surprised it's not higher , but obviously grateful it isn't

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

She is the prime minister. She is the leader of this country (for now). What messages does it send to go along to a tragedy like this and not even meet some of the people?

It doesn't have to be her fault for her to be able to show a bit of humanity... but frankly she seems to be showing lately that that is quite beyond her.

But of course right now, it is so low down on her radar is she is too busy trying to put our her own political dumpster fire.

-Matt

I take it you did not see the interviews on tv where people were blaming May. You really are losing the plot"

Eh? How am I losing the plot? I'm not surprised that people are blaming her. She is the PM, the buck stops with her. And then when you have the likes of BoJo on video saying "get stuffed" in response to being questioned about fire safety, then I'm not surprised.

-Matt

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

She is the prime minister. She is the leader of this country (for now). What messages does it send to go along to a tragedy like this and not even meet some of the people?

It doesn't have to be her fault for her to be able to show a bit of humanity... but frankly she seems to be showing lately that that is quite beyond her.

But of course right now, it is so low down on her radar is she is too busy trying to put our her own political dumpster fire.

-Matt

I take it you did not see the interviews on tv where people were blaming May. You really are losing the plot

-Matt"

I dont think that TM can be blamed for everything that goes wrong in the uk, Heard JC trying to blame her for it, strange how labout didnt make sprinklers compulsory all the years they were in power, if the refurb was done to the required standards then I cant see who will be found to be at fault. I dont imagine it will easy to fit sprinklers to any similar buildings though, I would have thought getting any similar cladding off other blocks should be done ASAP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Corbyn for prime minster .... and that has always been since he became leader of Labour .

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Would be far better for due process to take place, rather than any tit for tat name calling and finger pointing.

There is a time and a place for tribal politics; sadly this isn't one of them

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

She is the prime minister. She is the leader of this country (for now). What messages does it send to go along to a tragedy like this and not even meet some of the people?

It doesn't have to be her fault for her to be able to show a bit of humanity... but frankly she seems to be showing lately that that is quite beyond her.

But of course right now, it is so low down on her radar is she is too busy trying to put our her own political dumpster fire.

-Matt

I take it you did not see the interviews on tv where people were blaming May. You really are losing the plot

-Matt

She is the prime minister she should have spoken to the family's that want answers

News at 10 tonight basically say what I'm saying

Please remember she is in charge (for how long ) it's her duty to show remorse to the devastated people of this disaster and yes she is at fault no balls like everything else she's involved with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 15/06/17 22:21:50]

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel. "

Here here there's some morons on here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

Here here there's some morons on here "

You said it

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Would be far better for due process to take place, rather than any tit for tat name calling and finger pointing.

There is a time and a place for tribal politics; sadly this isn't one of them"

this..

emotions are high and rightly so but in time the answers to the many questions will hopefully be answered and people held to account..

'we' in that line of work, still serving and retired have been saying that as a result of cuts and changes to statute that sadly such an incident will inevitably occur..

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

Don't you have to face the music when you have done something wrong or are to blame for something? I might be on a high horse over this because frankly I find attempts at political point scoring over a tragedy a bit sick"
your the one that's sick do you not understand she is or supposed to be in charge of our country it's her duty for gods sake

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

Have to say I am in complete agreement with you. Someone who lived in the tower block said a fridge randomly caught fire and that is how it started. Utterly ridiculous to try and blame Theresa May for it but it's all the usual suspects doing so on this thread and others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

It's not the cause, it's the effect. Fire alarms not working, the materials used were flammable.

It's not her fault but it requires changes in housing regulations. Will she fix it though?

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

If you read the posts correctly I am not blaming Teresa may for starting the fire I am blaming her for but showing any respect to the poor family's of this terrible tradegy let's be fair she is the leader of our country or ment to be she should show some decorum to the poor people wondering what's going on

If you don't agree I give up with people like you who are onrvtracked )

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

If you don't agree I give up with people like you who are onrvtracked )"

Theresa May has called for a full public inquiry and rightly so. The community affected will get the answers they rightly deserve then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

If you don't agree I give up with people like you who are onrvtracked )

Theresa May has called for a full public inquiry and rightly so. The community affected will get the answers they rightly deserve then. "

Good

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

sometimes being a politician means that you have to take it from the people you profess to represent...

the local council leader has had to go down there and take it...

the mayor of london went down there and took it....

the prime minister could have at least met some of the victims of the diaster... and if that means she takes it in private, then she takes it in private.....

she decided not to mix with the public or the victims at all....

you don't have to blame her personally.... but if it is true that her and her former housing minister (who just now happens to be her new chief of staff, gavin barwell) have been sitting on the housing report about lakenal and any of the stuff in that reports could have prevented this one..... she is the CEO and she will ultimately have to take some responsibility...

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The lawyer for the residents at Lakanal House has just made it clear on Newsnight that an inquest is the only way that residents can have their say. An inquiry shuts off any chance of them asking questions.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Tomorrow's front page of The Times has a report that the cladding has been banned in America. There is also an allegation that the cheaper, non-retardant, cladding was used.

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

If you don't agree I give up with people like you who are onrvtracked )

Theresa May has called for a full public inquiry and rightly so. The community affected will get the answers they rightly deserve then. "

:-are you watching question time if so there is major debate about Teresa may not engaging with the people of the tradegy

So I suggest you read the posts correctly

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

as head of UK Plc.... you get to take a victory lap when things are good ... but conversely when bad things happen you are the top person... at least show a little empathy....

you may not be good at it....it may not be your strongest attribute but at least trying is better than not trying at all!

meet some victims, go to a community centre, meet the local church and community leaders..... all things she could have done..... she did none!

i think her advisors are so conscious of the problems she has they made this one a lot worse than it should have been......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was also reported that she had been advised by the police and fire commissioners....whom she did speak to...that going into the "public domain" would have got in the way and made their job more difficult.

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

As many have said...it isn't her fault. It is a culmination of decades of inaction by all political parties...national and local...but as PM it is her responsibility to now do something positive about it.

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex & Bridgend

"It was also reported that she had been advised by the police and fire commissioners....whom she did speak to...that going into the "public domain" would have got in the way and made their job more difficult.

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

If her advisers had thought it was a good idea, a way would have been found to enable her to interact with survivors etc etc. Frankly, whoever is advising her is making a balls up. Theyre trying to relaunch her as empathetic, listening and caring and then fail to take his opportunity to demonstrate exactly that set of newly discovered characteristics....hopeless.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure."

She's a vicars daughter, 1 hour visit to a church/community centre, fake a little empathy with a group of old dears, photo stood chatting with a vicar and an imam, praise the emergency services/"while I'm shocked and saddened by the events I'm heartend to see how the community is pulling together"/do not go out onto the street and do not under any circumstances mention LolBoris closing fire stations while mayor...bish bosh job done get the hell out before word gets round she's there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

I would have been critical of any PM, irrespective of their party for not meeting the victims. It's not a political issue, it's about leadership and respect. A point you appear to miss completely.

Members of the Royal family regularly visit victims of similar incidents and do their best to sympathise. No one suggests they are to blame!

It's about showing compassion to fellow human beings. I strongly suspect she was advised not to go out amongst the public for fear of further criticism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Grenfell was a pyre of ignored voices and ignored people.The cladding which killed so many was designed to hide away the concrete edifice and improve the vista for those on the outside with money in new apartments.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Grenfell was a pyre of ignored voices and ignored people.The cladding which killed so many was designed to hide away the concrete edifice and improve the vista for those on the outside with money in new apartments.

Cladding is done to offer insulation and to meet "green" objectives. As its generally on the outside of the building, then its often of bright colours to be visually pleasing.

As in the Melbourne tower block fire, and to a lesser extent, the Dubai tower block fire, gaps in the cladding have the effect of acting like a chimney and drawing the fire up the outside of the building.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Regardless of who advised her not to, and the apologists standing up for her claiming it's not her style.

Sorry I don't buy any of it.

She is for now prime minister, the buck starts and stops with her.

She should have overridden the advice and said I am going to meet the people and sympathise, turn off the cameras, stop taking pic's.

The poor families and everyone effected needs strength from our leaders, it needs sympathy and to hear it directly from the horses mouth that they will get to the bottom of it.

Rather than inflame it, she could have quelled the anger slightly by growing a pair of balls, show some dignity and respect for the dead and bereaved.

Put her arms around some, cuddle the kid's, get her hands dirty and help.

No she chose the path of least residence.

Bad choice in my opinion.

They should get the army in now, set up aid stations, temporary shelters, triage and start organising the aid and distribution of the donations.

She is a spineless twig.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

No it wasnt, it was meant to insulate the place the residents have been complaining for years about cold in winter and heat in summer, the only sensible way to do this is on the outside and then it has to be covered. The material used has been used in many hundreds of thousands of houses,it is meant to be fire resistant, the whole system must have passed building regs, obviously something has made either it or something else used in the framing burn, perhaps it would be a good idea to allow the inquiry to find out what before we start a lynch mob

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

JC is mandating the requisition of all the empty houses in the area to house those left homeless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"JC is mandating the requisition of all the empty houses in the area to house those left homeless

"
Hes a good man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Regardless of who advised her not to, and the apologists standing up for her claiming it's not her style.

Sorry I don't buy any of it.

She is for now prime minister, the buck starts and stops with her.

She should have overridden the advice and said I am going to meet the people and sympathise, turn off the cameras, stop taking pic's.

The poor families and everyone effected needs strength from our leaders, it needs sympathy and to hear it directly from the horses mouth that they will get to the bottom of it.

Rather than inflame it, she could have quelled the anger slightly by growing a pair of balls, show some dignity and respect for the dead and bereaved.

Put her arms around some, cuddle the kid's, get her hands dirty and help.

No she chose the path of least residence.

Bad choice in my opinion.

They should get the army in now, set up aid stations, temporary shelters, triage and start organising the aid and distribution of the donations.

She is a spineless twig. "
All true..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The lawyer for the residents at Lakanal House has just made it clear on Newsnight that an inquest is the only way that residents can have their say. An inquiry shuts off any chance of them asking questions.

"
Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

And look at the list of MOs that shot down the housing bill tabled by Labour to make rented property fit for human habitation.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The Coroner is in charge of any inquest into the deaths. The Coroner's Office have some of the most far reaching powers in the UK.

A High Court Judge will oversee any public inquiry.

The problem with both of these processes, is that they will take months and years. What is needed is an interim report from all the experts, and I believe that the Goverment is expecting one with a few days.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"He is winning people over even me !

And I never thought I'd say that in a million years !

Money needs to go on the back burner !!!

And all flats needs sprinklers now !!

It could be done in weeks no probs !!! "

Retro fitting sprinklers is no easy matter and can actually decrease the fire holding and retention properties of the structure. It also seems to me that the far more likely problem here will have been the new external cladding which may have aloud the fire to spread so rapidly on the outside of the building. But we don't know yet.

Clearly something has gone very wrong here and that needs to be properly investigated and the problems fixed but, although understandable, a knee jerk reaction without knowing the real facts could lead to large amounts of effort and resources being used on a solution that doesn't actually solve the problem.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

I agree. Corbyn's handling of the situation may have been more politically astute but for some on here to try and use this tragedy to score political points against here is, at best, very disappointing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

An inquest is automatic in any case like this. It will not affect or be affected by a full public enquiry. Both are required.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Rather surprisingly I find myself in total agreement with your post.

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice."

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

An inquest is automatic in any case like this. It will not affect or be affected by a full public enquiry. Both are required."

An event such as the Grenfell Tower fire, with its clear implications of Government Minister involvement and possible culpability, requires an inquest which is truly independent from government; not set up and controlled by government.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

The Queen is there now. And the press don't shout idiot questions at the Queen, like they do to MPs. No one is going to bother the Queen like they did Sadiq Khan.

Theresa May is going to hospital this afternoon to visit survivors and medical staff.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

The Queen is there now. And the press don't shout idiot questions at the Queen, like they do to MPs. No one is going to bother the Queen like they did Sadiq Khan.

Theresa May is going to hospital this afternoon to visit survivors and medical staff.

The problem is that the pm basically sent Andrea leadsome out there to talk to the commoners today....

And she got heckled... and leadsome took it to her credit

So all the excuses are basically unraveling before them

If the pm is that much of a fragile snowflake to not take heckling... she is in the wrong job

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

The Queen is there now. And the press don't shout idiot questions at the Queen, like they do to MPs. No one is going to bother the Queen like they did Sadiq Khan.

Theresa May is going to hospital this afternoon to visit survivors and medical staff.

Get in the real world man for gods sake if she had any balls like everyone says

She should show respect she is pm the leader of our country if she can't handle a few questions fired at her what hope have we got

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

This is about more than sadly one major incident with its catastrophic loss of life, it goes back to 05 when the regs were changed and the Regulatory reform order was introduced which allowed cuts to fire safety and the role of those specialists with certification, proposed changes such as with Grenfell tower etc within Fire authorities Uk wide..

Add in that the figures were fiddled to show a reduction in the number of Fire deaths due to reclassification of just what constitutes a death in fire and then on the back of that more cuts..

Then those cuts across the board have been continued to essential public services with the current lot..

And no one has looked at the regs to do with buildings and what is used within and outside as new products have come on the market and been fitted..

The fire service as a collective professional body have been raising issues with DCLG for years even before Lakanal house in relation to sprinkler's and the vested interests and budgets have over ridden those concerns..

There has been a steady increase in fire deaths nationally for too long due to cuts and more cuts are in the pipeline..

This is not about politics it's about all our safety and it's time we all woke up and said no..

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do.

So it was her fault was it? Jeez some people

I neither said or implied it was her fault so get off your high horse.

I merely suggested that it might have been a good move for her to engage with the victims of this tragedy in a way that showed a little compassion.

However, she chose not to and to her discredit I feel.

Worryingly as you agreed with my post I agree with this one of yours

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Add in that the figures were fiddled to show a reduction in the number of Fire deaths due to reclassification of just what constitutes a death in fire and then on the back of that more cuts..

Then those cuts across the board have been continued to essential public services with the current lot..

And no one has looked at the regs to do with buildings and what is used within and outside as new products have come on the market and been fitted..

There has been a steady increase in fire deaths nationally for too long due to cuts and more cuts are in the pipeline..

This is not about politics it's about all our safety and it's time we all woke up and said no..

Fire deaths are just over half what they were in 2003 and call outs are down 50 %

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Add in that the figures were fiddled to show a reduction in the number of Fire deaths due to reclassification of just what constitutes a death in fire and then on the back of that more cuts..

Then those cuts across the board have been continued to essential public services with the current lot..

And no one has looked at the regs to do with buildings and what is used within and outside as new products have come on the market and been fitted..

There has been a steady increase in fire deaths nationally for too long due to cuts and more cuts are in the pipeline..

This is not about politics it's about all our safety and it's time we all woke up and said no..

"
Ten London fire stations shut last year as part of the Fifth London Safety Plan - more than the sum of the total closures in the preceding 50 years.

Sixteen fire engines - 14 pumps and two specialist fire rescue units - as well as 552 firefighter jobs went in the capital, while more than half London's wards reportedly saw response times increase in the months following, with the average wait time for a fire engine reportedly jumping up to nearly eight minutes in Newham's Royal Docks area.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice."

It's not prevented the Queen from going today. May already has police looking after her so, for me, this looks like an after the fact justification. As someone else posted, going to one of the churches and doing something low key should have been possible. She's managing to get to the hospital today, with the same security requirements.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

An inquest is automatic in any case like this. It will not affect or be affected by a full public enquiry. Both are required."

Check what the lawyer said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Public enquiries have never precluded inquests before....they won't this time either.

On a different point latest news is protesters have forced their way into Kensington Town Hall.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

"It's not her fault but it requires changes in housing regulations. Will she fix it though?"

Doubt it. Recently Labour did try to bring in new housing regulations earlier this year but the tories voted against it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39767961

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not her fault but it requires changes in housing regulations. Will she fix it though?

Doubt it. Recently Labour did try to bring in new housing regulations earlier this year but the tories voted against it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39767961 "

But as another poster said....the building regs were amended, and weakened in 2005. Remind me who was in power then?

This is beyond politics.... the problem has potentially existed for decades!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think the blame game should be left to a later date.. what we should be doing round the clock is what can we do to stop the other tower blocks around the uk so the same does not happen again

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By *ondon-guy68Man
over a year ago

London

Regardless of the polictal bollocks and finger pointing it's been amazing seeing everyone help each in anyway they can.

Of course people are angry and want answers and someone to blame but that shouldn't overshadow the help needed and being given at a time like this.

My faceache is full of heartbreaking appeals for loved ones but also showing the heartwarming generosity being provided.

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By *axandbooCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Corbyn has certainly been leading the way, arranging a roof over the head of the survivors.

Mays excuse of "security reasons" is just pathetic.

Irrespective of whos to blame or political figures, its shown there is only one race, the human race and everything and anything else is just a box we are told we fit in.

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

An inquest is automatic in any case like this. It will not affect or be affected by a full public enquiry. Both are required.

Check what the lawyer said.

Well the hillsborough crush had two inquests and an inquiry

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Corbyn has certainly been leading the way, arranging a roof over the head of the survivors.

Mays excuse of "security reasons" is just pathetic.

Irrespective of whos to blame or political figures, its shown there is only one race, the human race and everything and anything else is just a box we are told we fit in.

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x"

So very true ...

Nita

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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago

East Lancashire

"Corbyn has certainly been leading the way, arranging a roof over the head of the survivors.

Mays excuse of "security reasons" is just pathetic.

Irrespective of whos to blame or political figures, its shown there is only one race, the human race and everything and anything else is just a box we are told we fit in.

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I see the thread has moved here probbally the better place .

A tragedy shouldn't really be politics , but I wasn't sure wether the lounge was the place either

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By *ondon-guy68Man
over a year ago

London

"Corbyn has certainly been leading the way, arranging a roof over the head of the survivors.

Mays excuse of "security reasons" is just pathetic.

Irrespective of whos to blame or political figures, its shown there is only one race, the human race and everything and anything else is just a box we are told we fit in.

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x"

There's a floral tribute been laid by the firefighters involved,

It says

We've never worked harder,

We gave everything,

Sorry it wasn't enough,

R.I.P

Love

The firefighters X

Things like that break my heart.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

"It's not her fault but it requires changes in housing regulations. Will she fix it though?

Doubt it. Recently Labour did try to bring in new housing regulations earlier this year but the tories voted against it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39767961

But as another poster said....the building regs were amended, and weakened in 2005. Remind me who was in power then?

This is beyond politics.... the problem has potentially existed for decades!"

well yeah, i expected them to something about it when they were in power.

they did bring in some new rules not long after 2005 which did help me personally, problem was the councils didn't have enough money to prosecute anyone either so stuff got done by threats from the councils usually but they wouldn't have been able to prosecute anyone if they'd had to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely i think thats why may suggested an inquiry so so quickly.

There needs to be an inquest!.

There is already a petition for an inquest.Ive signed it so should others.

An inquest is automatic in any case like this. It will not affect or be affected by a full public enquiry. Both are required.

Check what the lawyer said.

Well the hillsborough crush had two inquests and an inquiry "

The very point I made. Having one does not exclude the other. They are separate things and not mutually exclusive. Both are needed as soon as practicable

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By *eardedSilverFoxMan
over a year ago

Colchester

"Sometimes you just have to face the music.

That's what real leaders do."

Yes, but she also has to listen to her Close Protection and at short notice like that with such raised feelings it was probably advised against. She has I believe been to see the survivors today.

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By *eardedSilverFoxMan
over a year ago

Colchester

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

The difference is the risk assessment.....there isn't the same threat from angry people looking to blame Her Majesty, there is with the PM.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

There would have inevitably been a huge press pack and massive disturbance caused.

I do, however think she could have found a way to meet and talk to some of the victims. Though how it could have been done, I'm not sure.

On news this morning....the police commissioner asked her not to as it would require use of manpower who are already busy with the aftermath. It was on police advice.

So there doing the same for the queen this afternoon when she visits the devastated people of this disaster the answer is NO

The difference is the risk assessment.....there isn't the same threat from angry people looking to blame Her Majesty, there is with the PM. "

I posit that they were less angry yesterday...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Grenfell Tower is ten minutes from where I live. It's been a terribly tough few of days, not least because clients (from my previous job) live in the tower and some are still unaccounted for, presumed dead. You'll all have read the issues that have been raised time and again, I won't add to that, suffice to say it's been an age-old problem getting any traction with the TMO, even with professionals adding voice to advocate. I'm saddened and angry. I'll be back down volunteering tomorrow.

The journalist, Robert Peston, put it best for me:

"One reason why the Grenfell tragedy has shaken so many of us is because it exposes so much of what's wrong with the way this place has been run for years.

We'll have to wait for a forensic examination of all the many decisions that turned a series of risks into an appalling catastrophe.

But although the trigger may still be unclear, it is reasonable to identify a number of underlying causes.

Part of the background is austerity that has been particularly acute for local government.

But austerity seems to have become particularly toxic in a system where responsibility for vital safety decisions is so diffuse: we have ministers in charge of regulations, councillors funding an arms length management company, and a management company placing a refurbishment contract with the cheapest bidder.

There is naturally huge anger that the government didn't ban the kind of cladding used at Grenfell, when such cladding is illegal for use on high rise structures in the US (as the Times reports today).

Similarly there is horror that the government never made it obligatory for the fire safety standards that apply to new buildings to be enforced at older blocks - that such improvements are only recommended, not obligatory.

But such lax or light touch regulation only becomes fatal in a system - such as we have - designed to drive down costs and save money, not to put the safety of people first.

It is a system in which those working for all the interconnected bodies that made the refurbishment decisions and gave the wrong safety advice to tenants are able to say - as if that makes it alright - "we followed the rules".

It is a system in which identifying anyone who can be proved to be ultimately responsible for what happened may be impossible.

And as we saw in the banks before the financial crisis, when people can take reckless decisions safe in the knowledge they can't be held to account, reckless decisions get taken.

The horrific corollary of a faceless, irresponsible system of public-housing governance is that many of the poor and vulnerable people who died in the fire are not even being given the respect of formal identification as victims - because they live on the fringes of the state, and the authorities seem unable to be confident they even existed, let alone that they have died.

There is a social contract between those of us lucky enough to have voices that are heard and those who don't that we should not put them in harms way. Grenfell seems the most grotesque breach of that contract in my lifetime. It shames us all."

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

totally agree with him. the tories are all for taking away rights (directly or indirectly) that people fought hard for.

although i suspect now that the exit from the EU (which has the potential to lose us more of our rights) will not go as they planned. depends now how much they get away with here.

i don't even think chucking a small amount money at the survivors is good enough, although it's a start.

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By *urchoicenowCouple
over a year ago

Ashford

Everyone keeps banging on about May, but I really can't see how it's her fault. Yes she's the PM but is she going to see every building renovation in the country? Khan is mayor of London he has as much if not more responsibility but as he's Labour it's suddenly a fad to support them. And what has Corbyn actually done rather than politicize a tragic disaster? Sweet FA !! Perhaps he could open up his mansion to the homeless?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

[Removed by poster at 16/06/17 22:37:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn has certainly been leading the way, arranging a roof over the head of the survivors.

Mays excuse of "security reasons" is just pathetic.

Irrespective of whos to blame or political figures, its shown there is only one race, the human race and everything and anything else is just a box we are told we fit in.

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x

There's a floral tribute been laid by the firefighters involved,

It says

We've never worked harder,

We gave everything,

Sorry it wasn't enough,

R.I.P

Love

The firefighters X

Things like that break my heart.

Yes it's very powerful

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do not envy the firemen and women who are still going through the building on recovery. Each one found to them is another they couldn't save. A true tragedy

Boo x

There's a floral tribute been laid by the firefighters involved,

It says

We've never worked harder,

We gave everything,

Sorry it wasn't enough,

R.I.P

Love

The firefighters X

Things like that break my heart.

Yes it's very powerful

Very X

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

"Grenfell Tower is ten minutes from where I live. It's been a terribly tough few of days, not least because clients (from my previous job) live in the tower and some are still unaccounted for, presumed dead. You'll all have read the issues that have been raised time and again, I won't add to that, suffice to say it's been an age-old problem getting any traction with the TMO, even with professionals adding voice to advocate. I'm saddened and angry. I'll be back down volunteering tomorrow.

The journalist, Robert Peston, put it best for me:

"One reason why the Grenfell tragedy has shaken so many of us is because it exposes so much of what's wrong with the way this place has been run for years.

We'll have to wait for a forensic examination of all the many decisions that turned a series of risks into an appalling catastrophe.

But although the trigger may still be unclear, it is reasonable to identify a number of underlying causes.

Part of the background is austerity that has been particularly acute for local government.

But such lax or light touch regulation only becomes fatal in a system - such as we have - designed to drive down costs and save money, not to put the safety of people first.

It is a system in which identifying anyone who can be proved to be ultimately responsible for what happened may be impossible.

And as we saw in the banks before the financial crisis, when people can take reckless decisions safe in the knowledge they can't be held to account, reckless decisions get taken.

Bless you darling

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By *eardedSilverFoxMan
over a year ago

Colchester

What is really getting me right now about it is, how many of these victims are refugees who have fled places like Syria and Afghanistan only to think they were safely in the U.K. only to be let down by us?

Just makes me shudder!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is really getting me right now about it is, how many of these victims are refugees who have fled places like Syria and Afghanistan only to think they were safely in the U.K. only to be let down by us?

Just makes me shudder! "

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Just makes me shudder! "

We haven't let them down it's the type of property which has let ALL the victims down regardless where they are from

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!"

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

apparently 30,000 other council properties also have that cladding. so i read in the mainstream media so not sure if it's actually true or not.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!"

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! "
.

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government.."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government.."

the refurbishment was put in so that the new refurbished multimillion pound development opposite wouldn't have to look at a shitty looking block..and despite the, very publicly now, concerns of the tenants,the 'refurbishments' were just cosmetic....it is completely down to the current government!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident"

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!"

I'm neither ashamed or angry i'm just stunned by that image of that tower that will remain for me forever seared in my mind.

It's just so very very sad and horrific something i never forget.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government..

No there was a muti million pound refurbishment 2 years ago of the block of flats but way before then there where concerns of the fire hazard the block of flats were built in 1974 and after such times there were concerns...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!"
.

We haven't got a clue at the moment, they've clad nearly every high rise building from London to Glasgow in the last ten years, something seems to have gone wrong on this one for sure but that doesn't mean there's a giant conspiracy in government to burn down refugees!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure"

Is it about cladding or a dodgy fridge who knows until they have done their investigations

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I've just been reading some of the truly shameful comments on social media that claim we, the public, aren't interested in hearing any more about this as 'they' brought on themselves with their 'shitty fridges' catching light.

I despair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An awful tragedy. Thoughts to everyone affected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure

Is it about cladding or a dodgy fridge who knows until they have done their investigations "

Even if it turns out to be the cladding it still doesn't mean that somebody in government deliberately put it on to burn down refugees... People and companies do sometimes make honest mistakes for the right reasons

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've just been reading some of the truly shameful comments on social media that claim we, the public, aren't interested in hearing any more about this as 'they' brought on themselves with their 'shitty fridges' catching light.

I despair.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure

Is it about cladding or a dodgy fridge who knows until they have done their investigations

I agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure

Is it about cladding or a dodgy fridge who knows until they have done their investigations

I agree

no, not an 'honest mistake'..the cheapest option..and nothing to do with deliberately targeting refugees..i dont believe that for a minute..but i do believe that the cheapest option was chosen despite the already very clear, very public concerns for the need for improved fire safety..it was a cosmetic job, done for the benefit of multi million pound developments near by..there are no easy excuses for this!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

wanst it nice the queen visited yet was not safe for Pm to visit over safety issues

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I despair.

"
iread it was one of the faulty fridges that had been recalled..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"wanst it nice the queen visited yet was not safe for Pm to visit over safety issues"

fucking shameful!! the whole thing is fucking shameful!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I despair.

iread it was one of the faulty fridges that had been recalled.. "
its irrelevant what started it!...its shouldnt have burned like that...and its burned like that because the cheapest option for a fucking cosmetic job was chosen..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That was from the heart estella and I feel for you and all the people who have lost friends and family.

But what makes me angry is this could have been prevented for the cost of £2 per panel for fire retarded insulation...the government should be ashamed for not putting that into law....but also I know from experience that local councils have a lot to answer for ...let's say being squeaky clean...and that's putting it mildly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That was from the heart estella and I feel for you and all the people who have lost friends and family.

But what makes me angry is this could have been prevented for the cost of £2 per panel for fire retarded insulation...the government should be ashamed for not putting that into law....but also I know from experience that local councils have a lot to answer for ...let's say not being squeaky clean...and that's putting it mildly."

Not*

FIFM

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government..

You're absolutely right. I expect Mrs May and her cronies had a special meeting all about that tower's refurbishment..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HOLD ON, HOLD ON!

It's horrific what's happened, it really is.

But before the "may" daggers come out, what PROOF and/or evidence is there, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, that the building was constructed illegitimately (sorry I can't find a better word)?

Unless I've completely missed it, there hasn't been an official inquest yet.

But, having said that, after the inquest and it is proven the firm cut corners then hell yeah, protest that shit. 100%

But as it stands RIGHT NOW all we know is a "fridge blew up".

I think it's escalated pretty fucking fast from a public perspective and I could be totally wrong and I'm waaay behind it, so I'll nail my colors to the mast right now and say I don't really watch the news, but I have been kind of following it...

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

I despair.

iread it was one of the faulty fridges that had been recalled.. its irrelevant what started it!...its shouldnt have burned like that...and its burned like that because the cheapest option for a fucking cosmetic job was chosen.."

The problem is that the cladding chosen, although not fit for purpose and banned in places like America and Germany, met with UK building standards so in theory possibly nobody could be held responsible unless it was incorrectly fitted.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I despair.

Which is what will happen. Then they might change the regs. Eventually. This isn't political, it's just a symptom of money saving. I doubt if labour were in charge anything would be different. I didn't see "we will change building regs regarding the fire retardant properties of cladding" in Labour's or anyone else's manifesto.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I despair.

I think it goes deeper then that...it is a question of short cuts whether it is imposed on the builders to make short cuts or its the effects of a austerity policy that...until the last election would be running endlessly...and I don't want to make this thread political as this is way above politics.

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I despair.

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost. "

It's not Mrs May's fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost.

It's not Mrs May's fault. "

I never said it was.....her only fault is being totally out of touch with the electorate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The protesters are the same irrational individuals who would allow themselves to become angry if a hasty investigation provided inconclusive or incorrect results......

They exhibit mind-numbingly shallow understanding of due process ....

Shame on them ....

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

I despair.

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost. "

I doubt it was shortcuts or austerity which motivated the cost savings. The refurbishment was funded by public money so there would have been pressure to keep the costs down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protesters are the same irrational individuals who would allow themselves to become angry if a hasty investigation provided inconclusive or incorrect results......

They exhibit mind-numbingly shallow understanding of due process ....

Shame on them ....

Soxy theses in depth investigations take years to conclude....but in the meantime if I were living in a block that had this insulation cladding the building is would not be comfortable living there....so while I agree a investigation needs to happen I also feel that it has been identified that this insulation is lethal and need removing asap....and I can say that as I have had many years working in the insulation industry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course Theresa May isn't directly to ble. Aruably no one is directly to blame. The blame is widespread. No one could have freseen this and it is the culmination of lots of contributing factors the combined effect of which could never be foreseen.

But decades of social housing being seen a a low priority, several years of austerity meaning local authority budgets are stretched to ridiculous limits, a tory government who voted againsta king social housing fit for human habitation, a previous PM who said he wanted to do away with heath amd safety legislation, Coroner'recommendations from previous fires being ignored md an underclass in London who feel increasingly ostracised by society makes this very much a political issue.

And a PM too scared to meetthe victims means May knows that too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The protesters are the same irrational individuals who would allow themselves to become angry if a hasty investigation provided inconclusive or incorrect results......

They exhibit mind-numbingly shallow understanding of due process ....

Shame on them ....

I agree but what is the purpose of hostile and irrationally aimed protest that cant possibly assist the efforts of those tasked with finding answers and solutions...

Many of those protester's are just militant activists that do nothing to further the cause of truth and justice...

Their behaviour is pathetic

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost.

It's not Mrs May's fault.

I never said it was.....her only fault is being totally out of touch with the electorate "

Who says she is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just hope action is taken to take this inferno material off all buildings that have it ASAP....whatever the cost.

It's not Mrs May's fault.

I never said it was.....her only fault is being totally out of touch with the electorate

Who says she is?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just makes me shudder! .

Get a life... Its entirely possible it was just a fucking tragic accident

an accident brought about completely and inexcusably by the current regime!.

If something actually comes out to be ashamed about then the local councillors should be ashamed for sure

Is it about cladding or a dodgy fridge who knows until they have done their investigations

I agree

I'm quite sure cosmetics had something to do with it but the picture your painting is not quite true, hundreds of high rise buildings have been clad in the last ten years all over Britain, poor areas and rich areas and primarily for insulation purposes.

Personally I'd liked to have seen them knocked down and rebuilt at 21 century spec but apparently we've got no money so the option was to clad them.

The cheapest option is actually to do nothing so that's not quite true either.

Having said all that I have no doubt that they paid for the cheapest option that met current law (part j building regs)... That is the nature of a capitalist society where everybody wants to pay as little tax as possible and exactly why I've always been against privatisation of key infrastructure because I personally feel profit should not come before welfare.

But when you say "it's shameful" that's exactly the way the entire world runs and lives by

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Add in that the figures were fiddled to show a reduction in the number of Fire deaths due to reclassification of just what constitutes a death in fire and then on the back of that more cuts..

Then those cuts across the board have been continued to essential public services with the current lot..

And no one has looked at the regs to do with buildings and what is used within and outside as new products have come on the market and been fitted..

There has been a steady increase in fire deaths nationally for too long due to cuts and more cuts are in the pipeline..

This is not about politics it's about all our safety and it's time we all woke up and said no..

Fire deaths are just over half what they were in 2003 and call outs are down 50 % "

Look into the stats in 05 when we were were classifying a person who jumped from a fire it was within the figures then it changed that such fatalities at incidents were recorded differently..

Speaking personally i would prefer they were even lower still but that's not going to happen..

There have been deaths in London post the 14 cuts directly down to the local station being shut..

We used to have national attendance times set in statute but that got binned or ' reformed'

Appliances are turning up knowing that the 2nd machine is going to be longer which means they have to decide to go in without backup which is unsafe and they do so time and time again..

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By *eardedSilverFoxMan
over a year ago

Colchester

I despair.

Exactly!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bbc reporting the death toll as at least 58 now.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Just makes me shudder!

We as a country haven't let them down one jot we took them in the local council have big difference ok.!

the government we've had for the last 5 years let them...and all of us down! im ashamed and angry!

That block of flats has been a hazard for years way before our current government..

Even if what you say is true it wouldn't be down to the government, it would be down to the local council. But that's not the reason why the cladding was put on. The cladding was put on on order to provide better insulation. Currently we don't know what caused the fire to spread so quickly but it does look like it may have been the cladding. If it is the cladding the questions to ask are:-

1 Did the cladding specified by the council meet the minimum legal requirements.

2 Was the cladding specified actually what the contractor put on the building.

3 Did the contractor put the specified cladding on correctly.

If no fault is found to the above questions then the question has to asked is is the minimum specification for this sort of cladding, when used on high rise residential blocks, adequate.

Only after those questions have been asked and answered can we even begin to look and see who, if anyone, should be held responsible and blamed. Until then it's just political, probably irrelevant and quite possibly misdirected point scoring.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I despair.

Exactly!!! "

Except it wasn't just for cosmetics. The cladding was put on in order to improve the insulation of the building, decrease the fuel consumption and improve the carbon footprint of the block.

See my precious post.