FabSwingers.com forum: Childrens Lureate talking shit

By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

Lauren Child has been appointed to the role and said "i don't know if it's just a culture, or whether it's a boy thing, that they find it very hard to pick up a book or go to a film if a girl is the central character".

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

Two of the most popular games franchises of all times, with films, are tomb raider and resident evil. Both female leads predominantly watched by boys. Some of you might have noticed khaleesi is the main character of the most popular TV series at the moment (game of thrones).

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I respectfully disagree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I respectfully disagree. "

Ditto

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"I respectfully disagree. "

Would you like to elaborate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

However, I also don't see anything wrong with it. I tend to relate more to female leads. When I play video games I choose a female avatar (with brown hair of its an option). I like reading books that are from the female's perspective, and the same with movies. And I expect men are, on average, the same.

Whether men are less likely to relate to a female lead than women are to relate to male leads is something I can't answer - I haven't done the research. But it isn't something that bothers me. I could see it affecting sales, though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

"
you hsve just picked out game of thrones khalesi for a child book when shes fucked all over been sold the lot lolol

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

She's explicitly saying that boys are put off by female leads, she doesn't cite any research or evidence. The examples i gave were phenomenally popular examples, if that many boys were genuinely put off then those things couldn't have been the run away successes they were. She has no evidence for her statement.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

you hsve just picked out game of thrones khalesi for a child book when shes fucked all over been sold the lot lolol"

Her quote explicitly includes films

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

childrens laureate, would not be wise to promote adult themed books from televised/film franchise

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

She's sold a lot of Charlie and Lola books

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

But come on, I could name examples of male leads. I could name more examples of successful male leads than female leads. I could see her point. I'd expect some research to go into the statement, but it sounds about right to me. I think people generally favor protagonists similar to themselves - that doesnt mean you can't find examples to the contrary.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead? "

Have you seen them? Lara croft is the lead of tomb raider, mila jovovich is the lead of the resident evil films, lots of market research shows khaleesi is the most popular character which is what i said

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Have you read my post or even the original point that you're quoting?

Video games are not books. It's entirely possible that boys consume video games in a way that they don't consume books.

For one thing, video games are far less demanding intellectually.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

thats the point of a childrens laureate is to engage children in reading and learning from the books,

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?"

But that's not the point she's making. She's saying that if you offer a book or film with a female lead then you are turning off a large part of the male audience and that is just patent nonsense. If that was true then i wouldn't be able to name highly successful films with a predominantly male audience.

I don't deny there are probably more male leads, but to say that boys don't like female leads is a totally different arguement. Most popular UFC fighter of the past few years (mainly male audience): ronda rousey.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Have you read my post or even the original point that you're quoting?

Video games are not books. It's entirely possible that boys consume video games in a way that they don't consume books.

For one thing, video games are far less demanding intellectually. "

Read her quote. It says films as well as books.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Have you read my post or even the original point that you're quoting?

Video games are not books. It's entirely possible that boys consume video games in a way that they don't consume books.

For one thing, video games are far less demanding intellectually.

Read her quote. It says films as well as books. "
its says films but not near porno films like game of thrones

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Have you read my post or even the original point that you're quoting?

Video games are not books. It's entirely possible that boys consume video games in a way that they don't consume books.

For one thing, video games are far less demanding intellectually.

Read her quote. It says films as well as books. "

And you're talking about video games, which are neither books nor films (unless you want to cite the Resident Evil films, which are hardly a big success), and a TV series which had multiple leads, not a female lead.

Let's be honest, you just don't like any vaguely feminist point being made, right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

I get her point. I'm saying she is likely correct. And that is exemplified by the proliferation of male leads.

I do think men are generally turned off by female leads. I thinks it because they arent relateable for them. It's normal for women to aspire to male-oriented things, but frowned upon for men to do the same to female-oriented things. It's the reason why most successful female leads embody, in my opinion, traits generally owned by male leads. They aren't generally the princess types, they are the warrior types.

So yeah, I think what she says makes intuitive sense. The only problem I have with it is that I don't really see a problem with it in the same way as she seems to. I think our society has made that the appropriate male response.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Have you read my post or even the original point that you're quoting?

Video games are not books. It's entirely possible that boys consume video games in a way that they don't consume books.

For one thing, video games are far less demanding intellectually.

Read her quote. It says films as well as books.

Let's be honest, you just don't like any vaguely feminist point being made, right? "

Tomb raider film is out next year, not sure how you work out that nearly a billion dollars gross profit from the resident evil films isn't success. Ronda rousey breaking PPV view records headlining UFC events... yeah men really switch off when a woman comes on.

I don't like statements being made without evidence. If you're going to be in a position like that and make a statement like that, have some evidence.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

I get her point. I'm saying she is likely correct. And that is exemplified by the proliferation of male leads.

Well that is the most logical point made on the thread so far. The examples i gave are all kick-ass girls and yes boys don't want to read about hannah the house wife. But this highlights the problem with simplifying every problem into two gender categories which is what i object to. If you wanted to say that boys are closed to feminine stories then i'd agree but also question why that's a bad thing.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?"

There aren't even as many roles for women on television and film as there are for men. Have a look at the 50:50 Equal Representation of Actresses campaign.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

Proportionally... a small number against a larger number... of women doing fighty things that boys can engage with...

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

Proportionally... a small number against a larger number... of women doing fighty things that boys can engage with... "

Yes and that's a fair point, but what on earth is strange or wrong about boys not being interested in feminine activities!?

So it's not the gender of the character, it's what the character is doing.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

I get her point. I'm saying she is likely correct. And that is exemplified by the proliferation of male leads.

Because it perpetuates a heteronormative world view that doesn't just disadvantage girls but boys who don't fit the heteronormative mould.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Hmmm. I've thought about this recently because of something that was said regarding the new wonder woman movie.

It's undeniable that male leads tend to be more common than female leads. They are generally more succesful. Just because you can name a few examples otherwise doesn't change that.

Are you honestly telling me you think there are an equal number of successful female leads as male leads? Honestly?

I get her point. I'm saying she is likely correct. And that is exemplified by the proliferation of male leads.

Because it perpetuates a heteronormative world view that doesn't just disadvantage girls but boys who don't fit the heteronormative mould.

I don't follow how sorry?

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art."

Given she is talking about children I think we can completely ignore how popular Game of Thrones, Tomb Raider and Resident Evil are.

She makes a good point but the problem isn't with the children.

Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books.

We take 20 books a week out of the library to read to our monsters and the number of exciting stories with female leads is frightfully small.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

Given she is talking about children I think we can completely ignore how popular Game of Thrones, Tomb Raider and Resident Evil are.

She makes a good point but the problem isn't with the children.

Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books.

We take 20 books a week out of the library to read to our monsters and the number of exciting stories with female leads is frightfully small."

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

choosing to cite these two particular films that you have done is a poor choice. if you had chosen an example such as phillip pullmans dark matter trilogy then your argument would've had more gravitas. at present you just come across as an adult who's drawing on their own very distant experience of being child rather than say, as a parent who is continually attempting to engage their child in literature

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

should read dark materials .... been reading too many physics journals of late

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"choosing to cite these two particular films that you have done is a poor choice. if you had chosen an example such as phillip pullmans dark matter trilogy then your argument would've had more gravitas. at present you just come across as an adult who's drawing on their own very distant experience of being child rather than say, as a parent who is continually attempting to engage their child in literature"

I've attempted evidence for my statement. Nobody has presented any evidence that boys are turned off by female leads. Based on the discussion had it seems boys are turned off by feminine roles which is a completely different point.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Only cos she gets her tits out most. No sure hand of thrones is a feast example in a discussion regarding getting children into reading more.

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

Prof. J Mcabe's (FLA S. Uni) study entitled Gender in Twentieth Century Childrens Books (published april 2011) argues to the contrary.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Marvel have recently received a lot of backlash for planning to change their main characters into females. I read something about it not long ago on the BBC website. It was basically thought that the franchise would suffer a lit because the mainly make fab vase would not buy into it.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Prof. J Mcabe's (FLA S. Uni) study entitled Gender in Twentieth Century Childrens Books (published april 2011) argues to the contrary."

Can you give a brief of the points from it you find convincing?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That's a different issue, that's taking a character who was male / white and rebranding them as female / non-white.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

That's a different issue, that's taking a character who was male / white and rebranding them as female / non-white. "

But it's not really is it. Your op posed that boys and men are not averse to female leads as the lady stated. Whether it's a whole new character or a change of one to a female the fact is that there is resistance to female leads in a very large, male oriented fan Base.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters"

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay.""

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That's a different issue, that's taking a character who was male / white and rebranding them as female / non-white.

Totally diagree. If you introduced new characters that happened to be female and diverse then I'm sure they'd get acceptance. But rebranding old ones is just lazy. People buy comics for good stories, when you start changing the story or character to fit a gender or sexuality narrative then that doesn't improve the quality of the story telling and therefore will not be met with a positive reaction.

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

"Prof. J Mcabe's (FLA S. Uni) study entitled Gender in Twentieth Century Childrens Books (published april 2011) argues to the contrary.

Can you give a brief of the points from it you find convincing? "

really?

i do academic all day and now is me time ... just pick an example like Roald Dahl's Matilda next time ... you'd sound a little more convincing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

You have to ask yourself what the average thor reader wants from a thor comic. Then ask yourself if changing thor to female gives more, less or the same of what people want. Answer: slightly less. Nothing to do with gender. Start a new comic and you won't have that problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles. "

I mean, women leads are fine so long as they are acting manly. Come on now!

I agree with you that I don't personally see the problem with boys liking male roles. But that's exactly what it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having a child of either gender I think her comment actually has some merit, my children are avid readers but their reading choices do tend to follow Lauren's comments. They do share a love of some books where there is not a defined male or female lead character Narnia for example.

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

You've actually just made the Lauren Child's point, to some extent. If what you want is to keep the same readership exactly as it is then you do nothing and nothing changes - it doesn't bring in new readers or expose readers to difference, which can help grow their imaginations. Leave everything the same and you keep getting the same results.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles. "

Lara Croft is basically female Indiana Jones. The fan base is happy with any gender leading it if the underlying story is of interest.

But if Indiana Jones decided to quit his career and be a house husband but found a new found respect for the complexity of hand crafts, I'm pretty sure the audience would die a sudden death.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Having a child of either gender I think her comment actually has some merit, my children are avid readers but their reading choices do tend to follow Lauren's comments. They do share a love of some books where there is not a defined male or female lead character Narnia for example.

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers"

But which books with female leads do you think your son should be interested in, but he isn't?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers"

I also read it as an opening salvo from a new Children's Laureate who has sold some books, not as a comment made from an academic about a particular study.

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

As the topic has shifted a little.

Here's a nice, reasonably short video on what Marvel are doing and why they're likely doing it...

https://youtu.be/pmXA08jzUfc

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

I don't follow that. I'm saying the audience would gladly embrace a mixed race superhero with animal powers, just don't call it spider man because that's already been done.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles.

Lara Croft is basically female Indiana Jones. The fan base is happy with any gender leading it if the underlying story is of interest.

But if Indiana Jones decided to quit his career and be a house husband but found a new found respect for the complexity of hand crafts, I'm pretty sure the audience would die a sudden death. "

That's an argument for never writing a book without action and adventure in it. Little Women will never be read again.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

I don't follow that. I'm saying the audience would gladly embrace a mixed race superhero with animal powers, just don't call it spider man because that's already been done. "

Actually, what I am reading is that it doesn't matter what arguments are made; you have made up your mind and there is nothing that can be written here (or elsewhere) that will convince you otherwise.

I'll leave it now as the horse is dead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers

But which books with female leads do you think your son should be interested in, but he isn't? "

City of Bones by Cassandra Clare, the content is similar to other books he's read, just with a female lead. He read the blurb and dismissed the books, when pushed on it he replied that it was the female lead that put him off.

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By *nked_kittenWoman
over a year ago

Ankh Morpork

The other thing to think of is a 6 year old boy likes to read about other 6 year old boys having adventures. He doesn't care at that age what some silly girl is doing.

So if you want to encourage a young boy to read surely you would do it with books that interest him not what is politically correct ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree with your opening comment comparing children's literature to games and movies and TV which are more marketed towards adults.

However, there's extremely popular children's fiction which does have female main characters, like The Hunger Games and His Dark Materials. Also, even though Harry Potter does have a male lead, every single female character is extremely strong. As far as I know, the books I've just mentioned are popular with boys and girls.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"OK. It's more about more diverse versions of popular marvel characters but here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39487917/marvel-boss-says-some-retailers-are-blaming-sales-fall-on-diverse-characters

I would look at that and say that the gender of the character is clearly not the issue!!!

"They include a female Thor, a mixed-race Spider-Man, a black teenager who took over the Iron Man story and a Muslim Ms Marvel.

Iceman also came out as gay."

It's one of the issues!!! which is why I pointed out that it is more about more diverse versions of characters.

As the topic has shifted a little.

Here's a nice, reasonably short video on what Marvel are doing and why they're likely doing it...

https://youtu.be/pmXA08jzUfc"

I watched it. I don't agree.

Did anyone watch the Netflix marco polo series? That did more to introduce a bunch of new asian actors to the mainstream than anything else so far, benedict wong was incredible.

Unfortunately it got bad reviews because journalists couldn't stop comparing it to game of thrones which is not what it was.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers

But which books with female leads do you think your son should be interested in, but he isn't?

I must admit i find that strange, it seems like a blurb that must boys would be interested in

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles.

Lara Croft is basically female Indiana Jones. The fan base is happy with any gender leading it if the underlying story is of interest.

But if Indiana Jones decided to quit his career and be a house husband but found a new found respect for the complexity of hand crafts, I'm pretty sure the audience would die a sudden death. "

Female Indiana Jones with massive norks. I remember getting into Tomb Raider as a teenage boy and believe me, I was not interested in the fact she was a female lead in the story. I was interested in the fact she had massive tits and wore virtually nothing and her kick-arse-ness was sexy.

Lauren Childs is right.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

Given she is talking about children I think we can completely ignore how popular Game of Thrones, Tomb Raider and Resident Evil are.

She makes a good point but the problem isn't with the children.

Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books.

We take 20 books a week out of the library to read to our monsters and the number of exciting stories with female leads is frightfully small."

I totally agree, marketing has a lot to answer for. Ironically Charlie & Lola is one of those franchises that upped the "twee" element to the point that it becomes alienating to everybody except the most girly girls.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles.

Lara Croft is basically female Indiana Jones. The fan base is happy with any gender leading it if the underlying story is of interest.

But if Indiana Jones decided to quit his career and be a house husband but found a new found respect for the complexity of hand crafts, I'm pretty sure the audience would die a sudden death.

Lauren Childs is right.

-Matt"

You've just proven lauren childs wrong by the fact that lara being female didn't put you off tomb raider. If lauren childs point was that women get sexualised then i would be agreeing with her.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?"

Because, for the third time, she said films.

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?

Because, for the third time, she said films. "

Do you think she was talking about films with 15+ ratings?

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

I don't think its a different point, though. I think its an arbitrary distinction between female leads and female roles.

Lara Croft is basically female Indiana Jones. The fan base is happy with any gender leading it if the underlying story is of interest.

But if Indiana Jones decided to quit his career and be a house husband but found a new found respect for the complexity of hand crafts, I'm pretty sure the audience would die a sudden death.

Lauren Childs is right.

-Matt

You've just proven lauren childs wrong by the fact that lara being female didn't put you off tomb raider. If lauren childs point was that women get sexualised then i would be agreeing with her. "

No, she is still right. She is talking about books/films for children. Not the softcore porn you are talking about.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate? "

To a certain extent, okay. I don't think anything she says is that surprising, and while I think it's a generalisation, I don't think it has anything to do with sales. It may have benetitted by citing some sources, but she clearly wasn't presenting a thesis, just points that she believes in/is aware of.

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read her comments more as her opinion than fact so wouldn't expect to see to see references to any studies or papers

But which books with female leads do you think your son should be interested in, but he isn't?

I must admit i find that strange, it seems like a blurb that must boys would be interested in"

I'd hope that lots of boys would be interested in it, but I think there is a large portion of boys and girls that stick with their stereotypical likes and dislikes, be it colours, books, toys or hobbies. That in itself I don't think is a bad thing as long as they have the option to try and be exposed to a wide range of literature,film or other mediums.

My Son sees me succeed in a predominantly male environment through my work and he looks up to and respects many of his female teachers so I don't see it as a problem that he struggles to read books with a female lead.

Ginger

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?

Because, for the third time, she said films.

Do you think she was talking about films with 15+ ratings?"

I don't think there's a difference. Are you suggesting that young boys are adverse to female leads but older ones aren't?

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?

Because, for the third time, she said films.

Do you think she was talking about films with 15+ ratings?

I don't think there's a difference. Are you suggesting that young boys are adverse to female leads but older ones aren't? "

Umm. Are you asking if young boys are less interested in attractive women?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them."

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

I;m not sure how game fracmhises and subsequent films are in any way relevant to what she said about boys not reading books with female leads?

Because, for the third time, she said films.

Do you think she was talking about films with 15+ ratings?

I don't think there's a difference. Are you suggesting that young boys are adverse to female leads but older ones aren't?

Umm. Are you asking if young boys are less interested in attractive women?"

Some people have focussed on the sexualisation. I think the roles the women play are more critical. Younger boys are probably less violent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence? "

No, age is a big factor here.

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence?

No, age is a big factor here."

Ok but then i refer to the honourable gentleman to the point made by the poster above;

"Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books."

Could i also be a lack of quality in the books available? - not discounting the lady whose boy doesn't want to read about demons for some unknown reason to me.

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

Regardless of subject matter ! Donkey wank is a brilliant phrase

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Regardless of subject matter ! Donkey wank is a brilliant phrase

I only really started this thread because i rarely get the opportunity to say it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence?

No, age is a big factor here.

Ok but then i refer to the honourable gentleman to the point made by the poster above;

"Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books."

Could i also be a lack of quality in the books available? - not discounting the lady whose boy doesn't want to read about demons for some unknown reason to me. "

Maybe, maybe not, but that doesn't really address the age factor. And we haven't even touched on the environment the child is brought in.

And I concur, donkey wank is a winner

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence?

No, age is a big factor here.

Ok but then i refer to the honourable gentleman to the point made by the poster above;

"Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books."

Could i also be a lack of quality in the books available? - not discounting the lady whose boy doesn't want to read about demons for some unknown reason to me. "

It is very much about the lack of quality.

For every Princess who Saved Herself there are a hundred books where the main female is an insufferable, useless lump. Good only for rescuing and complimenting the male lead. (See Lia in the Sea Quest series (32 books and counting) as a prime example of this)

It doesn't take long for a young boy to decide that girls in books are rubbish and that any book starring a girl must be rubbish.

The whole thing is borne of stupid gender stereotypes and cynical marketing. It is incredibly frustrating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I respectfully disagree.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't have any hard to sources to support this, but certainly my kids and the kids they grew up, my nephews and, more recently, students I teach, in general, just don't seem to be captivated by it.

Also, the examples you provide are more than 'just female characters'. They're sexualised and surrounded by violence, which, in general, is stuff that boys tend to enjoy.

Finally, I don't think anybody is saying that boys can't or won't relate to a female lead, but rather that they're less likely to, particularly when there's a male alternative for them.

Isn't it more accurate to say that boys will prefer any lead surrounded by sex and violence than a male lead not surrounded by sex and violence?

No, age is a big factor here.

Ok but then i refer to the honourable gentleman to the point made by the poster above;

"Most children's films with a female lead are tripe. Bland, insipid nonsense filled with boring "girl stuff" as chosen by a cynical marketing person somewhere or other.

The same goes for a lot of books."

Could i also be a lack of quality in the books available? - not discounting the lady whose boy doesn't want to read about demons for some unknown reason to me.

It is very much about the lack of quality.

It doesn't take long for a young boy to decide that girls in books are rubbish and that any book starring a girl must be rubbish.

The whole thing is borne of stupid gender stereotypes and cynical marketing. It is incredibly frustrating."

But doesn't that create a bit of a chicken and egg scenario?

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

"Regardless of subject matter ! Donkey wank is a brilliant phrase

I only really started this thread because i rarely get the opportunity to say it

Well worth the effort

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Only cos she gets her tits out most. No sure hand of thrones is a feast example in a discussion regarding getting children into reading more. "
actually she doesn't get her tits out most, only in season 1 and that came out years ago so now she's too famous for it. Not sure why she's so popular it's taken six seasons for her to finally do something lol

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"The Children's Laureate is a role for promoting childrens interest in books, reading and writing.

What utter donkey wank. It strikes me as someone bitter that boys don't want to read her books rather than bring true.

I can't stand these people that blame gender for lack of sales of their own art.

So in relation to a point about books and films, you bring up video games and a TV series with a character who is one of several leads, not *the* lead?

Only cos she gets her tits out most. No sure hand of thrones is a feast example in a discussion regarding getting children into reading more. actually she doesn't get her tits out most, only in season 1 and that came out years ago so now she's too famous for it. Not sure why she's so popular it's taken six seasons for her to finally do something lol"

That's called character development!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I don't find female lead tv series/movies/games or books very intersting.

I have nothing against women I just don't find them as entertaining to lead roles as I find men.

As for game of thrones, it's definintely not all about Khaleesi, I would argue John Snow or Tyrion have a more leading role than her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't find female lead tv series/movies/games or books very intersting.

I have nothing against women I just don't find them as entertaining to lead roles as I find men.

As for game of thrones, it's definintely not all about Khaleesi, I would argue John Snow or Tyrion have a more leading role than her."

They're pretty equal, three heads of the dragon and all that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's part of how the system is designed to keep the downtrodden downtrodden.

First thing they do is make you believe you have an affinity with somebody who shares a genetic feature..

Oh don't say anything bad about them, their like me??

What they have a womb, black skin, pray to the same God, share your political views.. Oh yes there just like me!!.

"Society" says and we all want to be part of society therefore we agree with Dick's even when we know they're Dick's!.. That's predominantly what any so called movement trys to reinforce.. stereotypes.

I mean none of this is because of money? Surely nobody has done market research and found that the biggest buyers of this shit prefer x and therefore you get x?.

Who's the biggest buyers of hair products? Women, yea guess where the advertisement is marketed towards, women, guess where the brands get made for, women.

This is capitalism doing what capitalism does.. where there is no market they'll create one

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham

"It's part of how the system is designed to keep the downtrodden downtrodden.

First thing they do is make you believe you have an affinity with somebody who shares a genetic feature..

Oh don't say anything bad about them, their like me??

What they have a womb, black skin, pray to the same God, share your political views.. Oh yes there just like me!!.

I mean none of this is because of money? Surely nobody has done market research and found that the biggest buyers of this shit prefer x and therefore you get x?.

Who's the biggest buyers of hair products? Women, yea guess where the advertisement is marketed towards, women, guess where the brands get made for, women.

This is capitalism doing what capitalism does.. where there is no market they'll create one"

Have you replied to the wrong thread?

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By *y Favorite Pornstar OP Couple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It's part of how the system is designed to keep the downtrodden downtrodden.

First thing they do is make you believe you have an affinity with somebody who shares a genetic feature..

Oh don't say anything bad about them, their like me??

What they have a womb, black skin, pray to the same God, share your political views.. Oh yes there just like me!!.

I mean none of this is because of money? Surely nobody has done market research and found that the biggest buyers of this shit prefer x and therefore you get x?.

Who's the biggest buyers of hair products? Women, yea guess where the advertisement is marketed towards, women, guess where the brands get made for, women.

This is capitalism doing what capitalism does.. where there is no market they'll create one

Have you replied to the wrong thread?"

No but he drinks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't find female lead tv series/movies/games or books very intersting.

I have nothing against women I just don't find them as entertaining to lead roles as I find men.

As for game of thrones, it's definintely not all about Khaleesi, I would argue John Snow or Tyrion have a more leading role than her.

They're pretty equal, three heads of the dragon and all that"

I would argue Arya Stark is a stronger female character, in fact I would say Arya and Tyrion are top 2.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't find female lead tv series/movies/games or books very intersting.

I have nothing against women I just don't find them as entertaining to lead roles as I find men.

As for game of thrones, it's definintely not all about Khaleesi, I would argue John Snow or Tyrion have a more leading role than her.

They're pretty equal, three heads of the dragon and all that

I would argue Arya Stark is a stronger female character, in fact I would say Arya and Tyrion are top 2."
that's cos they GRRM's favourites

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's part of how the system is designed to keep the downtrodden downtrodden.

First thing they do is make you believe you have an affinity with somebody who shares a genetic feature..

Oh don't say anything bad about them, their like me??

What they have a womb, black skin, pray to the same God, share your political views.. Oh yes there just like me!!.

I mean none of this is because of money? Surely nobody has done market research and found that the biggest buyers of this shit prefer x and therefore you get x?.

Who's the biggest buyers of hair products? Women, yea guess where the advertisement is marketed towards, women, guess where the brands get made for, women.

This is capitalism doing what capitalism does.. where there is no market they'll create one

Have you replied to the wrong thread?

No but he drinks

"
.

This is true!

I didn't invent the system that sets one person against another for añ extra quid and I don't vote for it but somehow if you say something against it your a d*unk!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's part of how the system is designed to keep the downtrodden downtrodden.

First thing they do is make you believe you have an affinity with somebody who shares a genetic feature..

Oh don't say anything bad about them, their like me??

What they have a womb, black skin, pray to the same God, share your political views.. Oh yes there just like me!!.

I mean none of this is because of money? Surely nobody has done market research and found that the biggest buyers of this shit prefer x and therefore you get x?.

Who's the biggest buyers of hair products? Women, yea guess where the advertisement is marketed towards, women, guess where the brands get made for, women.

This is capitalism doing what capitalism does.. where there is no market they'll create one"

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