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"To be honest im done with threads like this...sorry sir" me too , but don't worry ... the spawners of racist hate will migrate from the other thread to replace us and spawn their racist hate | |||
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"To be honest im done with threads like this...sorry sir me too , but don't worry ... the spawners of racist hate will migrate from the other thread to replace us and spawn their racist hate"  | |||
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" Should the likes of Google, Facebook and WhatsApp be more responsible for what is posted in their services.. Perhaps criminal charges be brought against them for allowing hate propaganda be broadcast? Views and opinions please.. Any hateful comments against groups or individuals will be requested to be removed so play nicely together guys.. " It is worrying hoe seemingly ordinary people can turn to evil within a seemingly short space of time. Perhaps allowing the providers to carry on hosting the content would allow security services more opportunities to follow those who access and endorse said content which could help them to infiltrate extremist networks more easily than if the content was pushed underground and out of sight? | |||
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"Complex situation with likely a complex solution. Certainly less wars and invasions elsewhere will probably prevent some increases, fanning the flames. " As someone stated on the TV yesterday, the west is damned by the extremists if they intervene such as Afghanistan and they are damned if they stand back such as Syria.. I guess the keeping your nose out of foreign affairs argument has a few holes in it and to be honest, these guys have a pathological hatred of the west so sitting back and letting them gain strong holds in the middle east and North Africa will only turn.around and bite us hard in the future.. | |||
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"If we stopped giving them the publicity and stop the racial hatred, then they won't find any new recruits. The media at the moment are playing into their hands, the politicians are rubbing their hands together at the opportunity to drop more bombs on the middle east following an election." Too simplistic. As Sophie says, it's a byzantine situation. Radicalisation starts with the belief that there is a simple solution to a very complex problem. | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. " Why no stats for female murderers? | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers?" I'm sure there are, I'm guessing far less. Will have a look. | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers? I'm sure there are, I'm guessing far less. Will have a look. "Not stated in the sources, I wasn't deliberately angling at men -- just interested in the huge dissonance of this and the terrorist figure versus outrage energy on here. That point is not negated by lack of female murderer data. | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers? I'm sure there are, I'm guessing far less. Will have a look.
Not stated in the sources, I wasn't deliberately angling at men -- just interested in the huge dissonance of this and the terrorist figure versus outrage energy on here. That point is not negated by lack of female murderer data. "Ah no I assumed the articles hadn't given the fem stats, just wasn't sure if they'd giving a reason for it.x | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers? I'm sure there are, I'm guessing far less. Will have a look.
Not stated in the sources, I wasn't deliberately angling at men -- just interested in the huge dissonance of this and the terrorist figure versus outrage energy on here. That point is not negated by lack of female murderer data.
Ah no I assumed the articles hadn't given the fem stats, just wasn't sure if they'd giving a reason for it.x"It's such a significantly smaller figure, it's not make the argument about the hypocrisy of outrage-energy.....most likely. With closures of refuges due to funding cuts it's quite poignant just how uninterested people are, or accepting people are, of male violence against women....in direct comparison to terroist attacks. I am in no way negating the horror and tragedy of terror attacks, I hate to have to clarify -- but I will nonetheless. | |||
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"Another fairly interesting statistic that puts the numbers into perspective and makes you wonder where all the racial hatred comes from... Deaths in the UK due to terrorism since 9/11...212 Deaths in the UK due to terrorism from 1970-2001...3300 " Those are great statistics.. I love statistics, they are the bane of my working life Those values do include the sectarian troubles in NI, those types of events will tend to spike any statistic. However, look for the numbers of persons killed world wide by fundamentalist terrorism in the since 2001 and there is an exponential increase with it peaking in 2014/15 (with the exclusion of 9/11 which is by far the biggest organised terrorist attack of its kind) The numbers of dead is truly shocking, it is estimated in excess of 30,000 people were killed as a direct result of terrorism. Men, women and children indiscriminately targeted, that doesn't take into account those that are systematically tortured and sexually assaulted in the worst way at the hands of these sick Bastards... That is why a strong stance has to be taken on a global scale.. All parties that can help fight this global rise of hate must do their part... Oops.. Back on my soap box again.. | |||
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"Another fairly interesting statistic that puts the numbers into perspective and makes you wonder where all the racial hatred comes from... Deaths in the UK due to terrorism since 9/11...212 Deaths in the UK due to terrorism from 1970-2001...3300 Those are great statistics.. I love statistics, they are the bane of my working life Those values do include the sectarian troubles in NI, those types of events will tend to spike any statistic. However, look for the numbers of persons killed world wide by fundamentalist terrorism in the since 2001 and there is an exponential increase with it peaking in 2014/15 (with the exclusion of 9/11 which is by far the biggest organised terrorist attack of its kind) The numbers of dead is truly shocking, it is estimated in excess of 30,000 people were killed as a direct result of terrorism. Men, women and children indiscriminately targeted, that doesn't take into account those that are systematically tortured and sexually assaulted in the worst way at the hands of these sick Bastards... That is why a strong stance has to be taken on a global scale.. All parties that can help fight this global rise of hate must do their part... Oops.. Back on my soap box again.. " And the world wide figures of women killed by men? Whilst you're on that soap box, how about some rage for that? | |||
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"Another fairly interesting statistic that puts the numbers into perspective and makes you wonder where all the racial hatred comes from... Deaths in the UK due to terrorism since 9/11...212 Deaths in the UK due to terrorism from 1970-2001...3300 Those are great statistics.. I love statistics, they are the bane of my working life Those values do include the sectarian troubles in NI, those types of events will tend to spike any statistic. However, look for the numbers of persons killed world wide by fundamentalist terrorism in the since 2001 and there is an exponential increase with it peaking in 2014/15 (with the exclusion of 9/11 which is by far the biggest organised terrorist attack of its kind) The numbers of dead is truly shocking, it is estimated in excess of 30,000 people were killed as a direct result of terrorism. Men, women and children indiscriminately targeted, that doesn't take into account those that are systematically tortured and sexually assaulted in the worst way at the hands of these sick Bastards... That is why a strong stance has to be taken on a global scale.. All parties that can help fight this global rise of hate must do their part... Oops.. Back on my soap box again.. And the world wide figures of women killed by men? Whilst you're on that soap box, how about some rage for that? " Off topic maybe? However, like all civilised persons, I do not like or agree with domestic violence in any shape of form, whether physical or psychological. And i suspect, worldwide, the figures for domestic violence are truly shocking.. And should anyone be subject to domestic violence, they should not suffer in silence through fear, but report it to the police and not be afraid to do so. The police do take it very seriously and there are means and processes to prevent it from happening again. But, like I say, off topic. | |||
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"Another fairly interesting statistic that puts the numbers into perspective and makes you wonder where all the racial hatred comes from... Deaths in the UK due to terrorism since 9/11...212 Deaths in the UK due to terrorism from 1970-2001...3300 Those are great statistics.. I love statistics, they are the bane of my working life Those values do include the sectarian troubles in NI, those types of events will tend to spike any statistic. " That was kind of the point! They're not spiking the statistic, they ARE the statistic, unless you're aware of any other major terrorist atrocities in the UK from 1970 until 2001? | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with." In fairness, it's not just "right wing fucknuts" who are calling for that. I've been a lifetime labour voter, spent the last twenty years of my life as a trade union official and I'm black. I've found myself saying similar things. We are at war. We want to apply Queensbury Rules to people who are not using kid gloves but every weapon in an arsenal. White people burying their head in the sand for fear of being labelled racist, is akin to Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned. I think people are afraid of global terror because we travel. Whose blood doesn't run cold when we see another atrocity unfolding in places that could be on our holiday itinerary? | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with." I am sickened by the points of view spouted by ukip.. They have overstepped the mark and proven they are definitely no longer a legitimate party worth anyone's vote. Fortunately, the remaining legitimate parties appreciate that something must be done, along with other other countries rulers, in particular those in the middle east. A point of fact, not far from Doha airport, Al Quaida have offices trading as a legitimate political group... Until the flow of cash and arms into the terrorist groups by private benefactors ceases, the flow of homegrown terrorists will not stop. | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. In fairness, it's not just "right wing fucknuts" who are calling for that. I've been a lifetime labour voter, spent the last twenty years of my life as a trade union official and I'm black. I've found myself saying similar things. We are at war. We want to apply Queensbury Rules to people who are not using kid gloves but every weapon in an arsenal. White people burying their head in the sand for fear of being labelled racist, is akin to Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned. I think people are afraid of global terror because we travel. Whose blood doesn't run cold when we see another atrocity unfolding in places that could be on our holiday itinerary? " Which bits have you found yourself saying? I will never support going down the road of detention or deportation without charge for people on watch lists, as it opens too many doors for governments to silence dissension. That's not fear of being labeled racist, that's fear of civil liberties being further eroded by a government that doesn't have the greatest record where civil liberties are concerned. | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. In fairness, it's not just "right wing fucknuts" who are calling for that. I've been a lifetime labour voter, spent the last twenty years of my life as a trade union official and I'm black. I've found myself saying similar things. We are at war. We want to apply Queensbury Rules to people who are not using kid gloves but every weapon in an arsenal. White people burying their head in the sand for fear of being labelled racist, is akin to Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned. I think people are afraid of global terror because we travel. Whose blood doesn't run cold when we see another atrocity unfolding in places that could be on our holiday itinerary? Which bits have you found yourself saying? I will never support going down the road of detention or deportation without charge for people on watch lists, as it opens too many doors for governments to silence dissension. That's not fear of being labeled racist, that's fear of civil liberties being further eroded by a government that doesn't have the greatest record where civil liberties are concerned." Every time an atrocity happens lo and behold they were on a watch list and known to hold extremist views. "Watched?!!" Well someone is not being vigilant. The time has come to detain and check those on the "watch" list. If it means I can sleep not worrying about my children being blown up at a concert, not cancel meeting friends in town for fear of jihads with knives etc I can live with that...and that's all I want, to live! Will it make a major difference? I don't know but doing nothing is no longer an option. | |||
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"Detain for how long? I'd be happier if I knew the criteria for appearing on the 'watch' list. To say nothing is being done is a bit of a misnomer, given the amount of attacks it's claimed are thwarted by the IS each year." I'm not advocating suspending habeas corpus! I think unfurling an Isis banner on a tv documentary and spouting hate, clocking up frequent flyer miles to Yemen, Qatar, Afghanistan, Syria etc would book you a place on the watch list. I'd be happier being able to go about my daily life not being fearful of my fellow man. My sister lives in Italy, Milan. She sent me a picture with the caption "sign of the times". There's an annual ice cream fair near where she lives. €11 and all the ice cream you can eat, it's a family event, a lovely day out. The picture was marred because in the background were armed soldiers watching the crowd. People are scared because the threat is real. I'm not talking knee jerk reactions of sending them all back, but the time has come for a more robust approach. | |||
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"Detain for how long? I'd be happier if I knew the criteria for appearing on the 'watch' list. To say nothing is being done is a bit of a misnomer, given the amount of attacks it's claimed are thwarted by the IS each year. I'm not advocating suspending habeas corpus! I think unfurling an Isis banner on a tv documentary and spouting hate, clocking up frequent flyer miles to Yemen, Qatar, Afghanistan, Syria etc would book you a place on the watch list. I'd be happier being able to go about my daily life not being fearful of my fellow man. My sister lives in Italy, Milan. She sent me a picture with the caption "sign of the times". There's an annual ice cream fair near where she lives. €11 and all the ice cream you can eat, it's a family event, a lovely day out. The picture was marred because in the background were armed soldiers watching the crowd. People are scared because the threat is real. I'm not talking knee jerk reactions of sending them all back, but the time has come for a more robust approach. " Bugger the armed soldiers, €11 for all the ice cream you can eat? I'm there 
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"Detain for how long? I'd be happier if I knew the criteria for appearing on the 'watch' list. To say nothing is being done is a bit of a misnomer, given the amount of attacks it's claimed are thwarted by the IS each year. I'm not advocating suspending habeas corpus! I think unfurling an Isis banner on a tv documentary and spouting hate, clocking up frequent flyer miles to Yemen, Qatar, Afghanistan, Syria etc would book you a place on the watch list. I'd be happier being able to go about my daily life not being fearful of my fellow man. My sister lives in Italy, Milan. She sent me a picture with the caption "sign of the times". There's an annual ice cream fair near where she lives. €11 and all the ice cream you can eat, it's a family event, a lovely day out. The picture was marred because in the background were armed soldiers watching the crowd. People are scared because the threat is real. I'm not talking knee jerk reactions of sending them all back, but the time has come for a more robust approach. " You can get on a watch list for visiting a website, parking in the area of someone on the list, etc. How would you feel if agreeing to detainment led to your children being detained? | |||
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"Detain for how long? I'd be happier if I knew the criteria for appearing on the 'watch' list. To say nothing is being done is a bit of a misnomer, given the amount of attacks it's claimed are thwarted by the IS each year. I'm not advocating suspending habeas corpus! I think unfurling an Isis banner on a tv documentary and spouting hate, clocking up frequent flyer miles to Yemen, Qatar, Afghanistan, Syria etc would book you a place on the watch list. I'd be happier being able to go about my daily life not being fearful of my fellow man. My sister lives in Italy, Milan. She sent me a picture with the caption "sign of the times". There's an annual ice cream fair near where she lives. €11 and all the ice cream you can eat, it's a family event, a lovely day out. The picture was marred because in the background were armed soldiers watching the crowd. People are scared because the threat is real. I'm not talking knee jerk reactions of sending them all back, but the time has come for a more robust approach. You can get on a watch list for visiting a website, parking in the area of someone on the list, etc. How would you feel if agreeing to detainment led to your children being detained? " How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!  | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers?" There are actually, there is over 500 years of english history to go by, and when you do you'll realise that all the "violent misogynist men" stuff is total bullshit. Broadly speaking the numbers of men and women in english history from circa 1500 to the present who comitted murder are around about the same, up until 1900's it was the women who were in the lead. What *is* notable if you look at 5/600 years of history is that there *is* a difference in both *how* men and women murder, and *who* the victims are likely to be. The women often used poison, and usually killed husbands, children and the odd other woman, and it was pretty much always a "domestic" thing. The men often used more violent methods, and usually killed as part of another crime, such as robbery, although there was a bit of revenge killing and some wife killing. In the context of *this* thread, it's often the women behind the crazed suicide terr'rist that incite them to do it, sadly we only target the young bearded radicalised males, when invariably it is entire social circles and families that need to be rounded up and dumped at sea. | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers? There are actually, there is over 500 years of english history to go by, and when you do you'll realise that all the "violent misogynist men" stuff is total bullshit. Broadly speaking the numbers of men and women in english history from circa 1500 to the present who comitted murder are around about the same, up until 1900's it was the women who were in the lead. What *is* notable if you look at 5/600 years of history is that there *is* a difference in both *how* men and women murder, and *who* the victims are likely to be. The women often used poison, and usually killed husbands, children and the odd other woman, and it was pretty much always a "domestic" thing. The men often used more violent methods, and usually killed as part of another crime, such as robbery, although there was a bit of revenge killing and some wife killing. In the context of *this* thread, it's often the women behind the crazed suicide terr'rist that incite them to do it, sadly we only target the young bearded radicalised males, when invariably it is entire social circles and families that need to be rounded up and dumped at sea." I believe that everything you've written here is rubbish. | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky! "But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners? Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more. | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more."Quite right. Killed by d*unk drivers? Killed by texting drivers? | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with." If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more.
Quite right. Killed by d*unk drivers? Killed by texting drivers?". But don't we have public awareness campaigns about that? Don't we try to do something to mitigate that, didn't we address it as a cultural problem, do we just throw our hands on the air every time somebody is killed by a drink driver and say heh count yourself lucky theres only 300 of you killed every year, theres six thousand dying from the flu | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? " . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more."Perhaps if you would have volunteered to take the place of one of the seven who were killed by the terrorists in London, your argument will sound sincere - Mrs. J - | |||
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" ........In the context of *this* thread, it's often the women behind the crazed suicide terr'rist that incite them to do it, sadly we only target the young bearded radicalised males, when invariably it is entire social circles and families that need to be rounded up and dumped at sea." How did you develop such an extremist view? Would you do the rounding up and dumping or would you just incite others to do it? | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science" How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more.
Quite right. Killed by d*unk drivers? Killed by texting drivers?.
But don't we have public awareness campaigns about that? Don't we try to do something to mitigate that, didn't we address it as a cultural problem, do we just throw our hands on the air every time somebody is killed by a drink driver and say heh count yourself lucky theres only 300 of you killed every year, theres six thousand dying from the flu"Yes, but we don't try and accuse their families and communities of harbouring them, or aiding and abetting them... | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science" Are they really? Anders Breivik - to name just one. | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it." As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it." . Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - " http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science Are they really? Anders Breivik - to name just one. " . Which cause was he killing for then? | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more.
Quite right. Killed by d*unk drivers? Killed by texting drivers?.
But don't we have public awareness campaigns about that? Don't we try to do something to mitigate that, didn't we address it as a cultural problem, do we just throw our hands on the air every time somebody is killed by a drink driver and say heh count yourself lucky theres only 300 of you killed every year, theres six thousand dying from the flu
Yes, but we don't try and accuse their families and communities of harbouring them, or aiding and abetting them...". Yes we do, if your wife knows your drink driving and covers it up or helps you in anyway she's aiding and abetting | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm" I don't need to view a single link. I know this happened and it happened where I was and we were hurriedly evacuated by the Police They weren't a group of deranged lunatics knifing people on the streets - Mrs. J - | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm I don't need to view a single link. I know this happened and it happened where I was and we were hurriedly evacuated by the Police They weren't a group of deranged lunatics knifing people on the streets - Mrs. J -" Oh, blowing random people up is the civilised way of doing terrorism. It's ok just the Irish chaps playing up again... | |||
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"How would you feel if continuing to ignore the clear and present threat you or your children were maimed or killed? Detained and released...maimed and killed...tricky!
But the danger is not clear or present, just overblown by the media to scare you. How many died in London from other causes on Saturday? The numbers are not easily to hand, but 7 died in the London marathon from cardiac arrest, should we detain all runners?
Over reaction and fear is what terrorists want, don't give them the satisfaction, more importantly don't create circumstances that will enable them to recruit more.
Quite right. Killed by d*unk drivers? Killed by texting drivers?.
But don't we have public awareness campaigns about that? Don't we try to do something to mitigate that, didn't we address it as a cultural problem, do we just throw our hands on the air every time somebody is killed by a drink driver and say heh count yourself lucky theres only 300 of you killed every year, theres six thousand dying from the flu
Yes, but we don't try and accuse their families and communities of harbouring them, or aiding and abetting them....
Yes we do, if your wife knows your drink driving and covers it up or helps you in anyway she's aiding and abetting"But there's no calls in the Daily Mail for police to hound his drinking mates. They are obviously also complicit. Or the people he goes to church with... (actually hounding his drinking buddies would be a sound tactic...) | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts" Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. | |||
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"I ( him ) think the only way ahead as for most crimes is self policing ? Where if we see something wrong report it ? With the terrorism side of things if the Muslim community wish to show us how against them they are it's time for them to give up any information that will help to stop this attack on innocent ppl " It turns out pretty much everyone involved in recent attacks have been reported by their community... | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm I don't need to view a single link. I know this happened and it happened where I was and we were hurriedly evacuated by the Police They weren't a group of deranged lunatics knifing people on the streets - Mrs. J - Oh, blowing random people up is the civilised way of doing terrorism. It's ok just the Irish chaps playing up again..." Did you read what I wrote? They planted a bomb; then informed the intelligence agency; the Police evacuated us from the area; the bomb went off; the building was damaged but nobody was killed The lunatics of Saturday night's terrorist attack drove a van into people and then started knifing others; there was no warning - Mrs. J - - Mrs. J - | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. " . But that's demonstrably not true, your just wrong, they are more whacky than the last whacky lot, to say anything else would be just plainly ignoring the very obvious reality | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it. As far as I remember, the IRA called the authorities, using a code word, informing them that a bomb had been planted in an area. Their aim was to cause panic and destroy the infrastructure - Mrs. J - http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm I don't need to view a single link. I know this happened and it happened where I was and we were hurriedly evacuated by the Police They weren't a group of deranged lunatics knifing people on the streets - Mrs. J - Oh, blowing random people up is the civilised way of doing terrorism. It's ok just the Irish chaps playing up again... Did you read what I wrote? They planted a bomb; then informed the intelligence agency; the Police evacuated us from the area; the bomb went off; the building was damaged but nobody was killed The lunatics of Saturday night's terrorist attack drove a van into people and then started knifing others; there was no warning - Mrs. J - - Mrs. J -" 6 people were killed. 21 killed in the Birmingham pub bombings etc. etc. The same type of morally devoid murdering maniac. I see no difference. | |||
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" Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science Are they really? Anders Breivik - to name just one. . Which cause was he killing for then?" Have you considered educating yourself? Google can be your friend. | |||
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" Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science Are they really? Anders Breivik - to name just one. . Which cause was he killing for then? Have you considered educating yourself? Google can be your friend. " . You stated it, why don't you tell me? | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. . But that's demonstrably not true, your just wrong, they are more whacky than the last whacky lot, to say anything else would be just plainly ignoring the very obvious reality" Maybe you could explain then? I'm afraid that 'whacky' isn't explaining it very well. What makes those despicable people who killed innocents in Manchester and London worse than Anders Breivik and some factions of the IRA? | |||
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" Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science Are they really? Anders Breivik - to name just one. . Which cause was he killing for then? Have you considered educating yourself? Google can be your friend. . You stated it, why don't you tell me?" Because pretty much everyone that ever read a news report or watched TV knows what Anders Breivik's stated agenda was! He published an 1800 word manifesto stating exactly what it was. It could hardly be described as vague. | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. . But that's demonstrably not true, your just wrong, they are more whacky than the last whacky lot, to say anything else would be just plainly ignoring the very obvious reality Maybe you could explain then? I'm afraid that 'whacky' isn't explaining it very well. What makes those despicable people who killed innocents in Manchester and London worse than Anders Breivik and some factions of the IRA?" . Were going round in circles, they are clearly? by just the obvious observation more extreme than the previous extreme as I stated at the beginning!. I don't know maybe I've missing out on the news, maybe I missed that breivik had tens of thousands of followers willing to kill everybody in Norway and themselves for an ideology at heart which gives them access to heaven, maybe I missed the bit where the IRA invaded several countries for the purpose of murdering anybody they didn't consider to be Irish enough or then set up rapx camps, released videos of them hacking soldiers heads off, did they deliberately target children's concerts just for the reason that they just objected to the concerts for the very reason of letting your children listen to music and dance while a teenage girl dances provocatively, they didn't kill them as part of the campaign they killed them because they are the campaign, that's what they want rid of, planting bombs and informing the authority before it goes off over a constitutional position is bad its very bad nobody is saying it was good but it's clearly not as whacky as jumping out of transit vans and stabbing as many people to death as possible before the police shoot you! | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. " . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians" So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years? | |||
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"So, you're blaming Islam, the religion, for the actions of a few misled idiots in this country that have not only been reported by their own communities, but were known to the intelligence services as well? " . Its not a one prong problem or solution!. Islam has a role in its creation and will have a role in its solution. Its like saying Christianity had nothing to do with the inquisition or the crusades or bombings in Ireland or abortion clinics or the KKK or Adolf Hitler... Yes it had a role and yes it formed part of the solution, the biggest difference today is Islam is still political where as Christianity had its ball cut off by secularism awhile back, part of the solution would be to encourage secularism amongst? Islamic countries | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years?" .. I think you've missed the gist of my argument, the current set of numbnuts aren't interested in terrorisim or terrorising you, they just want as many of us dead as possible... Terrorisim has an objective and a point to it as horrible as that sounds. | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years?" Have you read the 6 IS demands followed by that they will continue killing irrespective until all covert to Islam? Are you defending them? - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years? Have you read the 6 IS demands followed by that they will continue killing irrespective until all covert to Islam? Are you defending them? - Mrs. J -" Of course I'm not fucking defending them! ISIS have virtually nothing to do with Islam, it's just a convenient flag they've attached their 'cause' to, they don't give a damn about Islam else they wouldn't behave the way they do. They kill more Muslims than anyone bar the US Air Force! Am I defending them? FFS! | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years? Have you read the 6 IS demands followed by that they will continue killing irrespective until all covert to Islam? Are you defending them? - Mrs. J - Of course I'm not fucking defending them! ISIS have virtually nothing to do with Islam, it's just a convenient flag they've attached their 'cause' to, they don't give a damn about Islam else they wouldn't behave the way they do. They kill more Muslims than anyone bar the US Air Force! Am I defending them? FFS!" Sounds like you fucking are 
- Mrs. J - | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. . But that's demonstrably not true, your just wrong, they are more whacky than the last whacky lot, to say anything else would be just plainly ignoring the very obvious reality Maybe you could explain then? I'm afraid that 'whacky' isn't explaining it very well. What makes those despicable people who killed innocents in Manchester and London worse than Anders Breivik and some factions of the IRA?. Were going round in circles, they are clearly? by just the obvious observation more extreme than the previous extreme as I stated at the beginning!. I don't know maybe I've missing out on the news, maybe I missed that breivik had tens of thousands of followers willing to kill everybody in Norway and themselves for an ideology at heart which gives them access to heaven, maybe I missed the bit where the IRA invaded several countries for the purpose of murdering anybody they didn't consider to be Irish enough or then set up rapx camps, released videos of them hacking soldiers heads off, did they deliberately target children's concerts just for the reason that they just objected to the concerts for the very reason of letting your children listen to music and dance while a teenage girl dances provocatively, they didn't kill them as part of the campaign they killed them because they are the campaign, that's what they want rid of, planting bombs and informing the authority before it goes off over a constitutional position is bad its very bad nobody is saying it was good but it's clearly not as whacky as jumping out of transit vans and stabbing as many people to death as possible before the police shoot you!" Ok. Maybe we should try and highlight the things we agree on instead of the things we don't agree on. Trying to win an argument when emotion and opinion are given more credence than balance or fact is a pyrric victory. | |||
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"Either today's terrorists are rubbish at it or the IRA were really crap at making phone calls because the IRA still managed to kill 6 times more people in 16 years than have been killed since 9/11, and managed to not create the same moral panic or attain the same level of folk-devil. . That's because Ireland was nothing fucking like the current terrorisim we now face, it was in effect a civil war, its like saying hey that Yugoslavia terrorisim, that was way worse than Isis we should really fear Serbians So, it wasn't terrorism back in the 70's and 80's then and the Irish weren't unhappy about what the British had done to their country for over 200 years? Have you read the 6 IS demands followed by that they will continue killing irrespective until all covert to Islam? Are you defending them? - Mrs. J - Of course I'm not fucking defending them! ISIS have virtually nothing to do with Islam, it's just a convenient flag they've attached their 'cause' to, they don't give a damn about Islam else they wouldn't behave the way they do. They kill more Muslims than anyone bar the US Air Force! Am I defending them? FFS! Sounds like you fucking are
- Mrs. J -"No it doesn't. | |||
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"How on earth does it sounds like I'm defending them? Unless you're being so obtuse it's off the scale." No, it is you who are being obtuse by coming uop with crap like that western nations bombed middle-eastern countries and that is why the terrorist are knifing people Get your head out of the sand. IS don't care about any of that. They have categorically stated that they despise the western way of life and values. They will not stop until every non-believer is killed or until everyone converts to Islam You go bloody well now negotiate with them Oh and IS stands for Islamic State. Don't try and turn this into a racist argument. Nobody wrote that all Muslims are terrorists. You just like to twist people's words around to suggest that this is what they meant - Mrs. J - | |||
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"How on earth does it sounds like I'm defending them? Unless you're being so obtuse it's off the scale. No, it is you who are being obtuse by coming uop with crap like that western nations bombed middle-eastern countries and that is why the terrorist are knifing people Get your head out of the sand. IS don't care about any of that. They have categorically stated that they despise the western way of life and values. They will not stop until every non-believer is killed or until everyone converts to Islam You go bloody well now negotiate with them Oh and IS stands for Islamic State. Don't try and turn this into a racist argument. Nobody wrote that all Muslims are terrorists. You just like to twist people's words around to suggest that this is what they meant - Mrs. J -" IS...Intelligence Services I'm glad to see that you've taken a step back and intelligently evaluated the causes of the last (at least) 16 years of violence though. Nice dig at me being bisexual too, if a little uncalled for. To be honest, I'm not in the last bit terrified of waking up one day and finding an ISIS tank outside my house and neither should you be. | |||
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"I'm interested in these 6 demands though, as the only reference I could find was one article this morning in The Daily Star which alluded to 8 demands but failed to actually state what they were. It seems odd that no other major news outlet (from the left or right) has picked up on this." Really? You have been spouting all this nonsense without even knowing their demands? I will be a timeout if I post the link, so Google these wise words: ISIS six reasons why we hate the west Then come back and tell us all how the US bombing in Afganistan killed the 7 innocent people in London - Mrs. J - | |||
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"As for terrorism worldwide, do you really think the right-wing fucknuts in this country that are advocating detention, deportation and the closing of mosques really give a shit about global terrorism? Their agenda is no more altruistic than the idiots that are committing atrocities in the name of a religion that they share very few (if any) values with. If you take the global numbers out, because there are obviously some horrendous things happening in places like Afghanistan. And focus in on Western Europe only. Even here the numbers were much higher in the 70s/80s than now, from white terrorists. Baader Meinhof, IRA, ETA etc. Why are we more scared of Islamist Extremists? . Because they're the most extreme of the extremists, its not really rocket science How can they be more extreme, they have not killed anywhere near as many? Not even got close. I was in my teens in the late 70s early 80s. I was barely aware of it (and I was interested in news and politics), because the media were not hyping it beyond all recognition like they are today. It was bad and the IRA mainland campaign in particular was pretty bloody. But the governments of the day did not use it as a tool of fear in quite the same way. Just quietly got on with dealing with it.. Because the IRA didn't actually target civilians perse, they wanted terror without wholesale mass murder. These fuckers are not interested in causing terror they just want you and as many people like you dead!. Theres no bargaining position, no demands and no crease fires. There willing to kill you and as many as possible to get to heaven because under their ideology you get there through jihad. Children are just as guilty as adults or civilians or soldiers or government officials, if your under some illusion that we shouldn't take it seriously until these numbnuts get upto the previous casualty rate from 40 years of IRA terrorisim then I'm afraid nothing anybody will say will talk you out of your thoughts Having personally witnessed an IRA bomb exploding and killing civilians I choose not to agree with you. Extremists and those who choose to kill in order to achieve their aims should be equally condemned whatever their colour creed or belief. Let's not fall into the 'some extremists are better than others' nonsense. . But that's demonstrably not true, your just wrong, they are more whacky than the last whacky lot, to say anything else would be just plainly ignoring the very obvious reality Maybe you could explain then? I'm afraid that 'whacky' isn't explaining it very well. What makes those despicable people who killed innocents in Manchester and London worse than Anders Breivik and some factions of the IRA?. Were going round in circles, they are clearly? by just the obvious observation more extreme than the previous extreme as I stated at the beginning!. I don't know maybe I've missing out on the news, maybe I missed that breivik had tens of thousands of followers willing to kill everybody in Norway and themselves for an ideology at heart which gives them access to heaven, maybe I missed the bit where the IRA invaded several countries for the purpose of murdering anybody they didn't consider to be Irish enough or then set up rapx camps, released videos of them hacking soldiers heads off, did they deliberately target children's concerts just for the reason that they just objected to the concerts for the very reason of letting your children listen to music and dance while a teenage girl dances provocatively, they didn't kill them as part of the campaign they killed them because they are the campaign, that's what they want rid of, planting bombs and informing the authority before it goes off over a constitutional position is bad its very bad nobody is saying it was good but it's clearly not as whacky as jumping out of transit vans and stabbing as many people to death as possible before the police shoot you! Ok. Maybe we should try and highlight the things we agree on instead of the things we don't agree on. Trying to win an argument when emotion and opinion are given more credence than balance or fact is a pyrric victory. " . I'm not trying to win an argument with you, I was debating with you about how it's possible to have different forms of terrorisim and why people are more fearful of this particular one!. Its not the colour of a persons skin that makes them dangerous its their ideology, once we can get past the obvious racism angle of this terrorism then we might actually get somewhere in countering it | |||
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"How on earth does it sounds like I'm defending them? Unless you're being so obtuse it's off the scale. No, it is you who are being obtuse by coming uop with crap like that western nations bombed middle-eastern countries and that is why the terrorist are knifing people Get your head out of the sand. IS don't care about any of that. They have categorically stated that they despise the western way of life and values. They will not stop until every non-believer is killed or until everyone converts to Islam You go bloody well now negotiate with them Oh and IS stands for Islamic State. Don't try and turn this into a racist argument. Nobody wrote that all Muslims are terrorists. You just like to twist people's words around to suggest that this is what they meant - Mrs. J - IS...Intelligence Services I'm glad to see that you've taken a step back and intelligently evaluated the causes of the last (at least) 16 years of violence though. Nice dig at me being bisexual too, if a little uncalled for. To be honest, I'm not in the last bit terrified of waking up one day and finding an ISIS tank outside my house and neither should you be." No it is not uncalled for as that is what their operatives will do to you if they ever get hold of you You are able to be who you are because of the vales western society holds of fairness and equality. These lunatics will have no problems watching you burn alive whilst they cheer. Tell me, how will you 'negotiate' with them on this demand of theirs? They have stated so in Dabiq - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Reasons aren't demands! I could give 6 reasons why I hate you but they wouldn't be demands that you somehow defer to me in any way, or change your behaviour due to my demands. Your implication was that they'd recently made new demands, not the same shit they've been spouting about the West for years, which I'm perfectly aware of." Exactly. Demands can be negotiated upon; there is give and take How does one counter: *The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam." Your call - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Reasons aren't demands! I could give 6 reasons why I hate you but they wouldn't be demands that you somehow defer to me in any way, or change your behaviour due to my demands. Your implication was that they'd recently made new demands, not the same shit they've been spouting about the West for years, which I'm perfectly aware of. Exactly. Demands can be negotiated upon; there is give and take How does one counter: *The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam." Your call - Mrs. J - " I'll be embracing Islam shortly then, I'd hate to upset anyone else. I'll just make sure it's the same Islam as my Muslim friends, not the weird one that that fools who bomb children and stab people in the streets on a Saturday night (don't) adhere to. | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened?" As a Bi guy you would either be burned alive, thrown from the first high building alive or beheaded, no negotiations  | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened?" Yes, I am for myself, for my husband and for my family. And I bet you will be begging for mercy as he takes out that lighter And I don't bloody care that nn in a thousand die in a car crash and n in a thousand die in and air crash and only a mere n.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 die at the hands of these deranged lunatics You go get bitten by your Gay shark and keep on telling folk that there is nothing to worry about. Especially, you tell this to the parents of the teenagers who were ripped apart by these assholes in Manchester; tell them that their children died because the US bombed Afganistan - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened? As a Bi guy you would either be burned alive, thrown from the first high building alive or beheaded, no negotiations "I'm really not frightened, they haven't terrorised me, I'm really not worried. I'd hate for you to lose sleep worrying on my behalf too. | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened?" as long as you're ok that's great, I mean who cares about the gay people being persecuted out there am I right? | |||
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"Proud member of the EDL We need to take our country back. Wake up " From whom exactly? If you mean the Tories I am with you brother... | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened? Yes, I am for myself, for my husband and for my family. And I bet you will be begging for mercy as he takes out that lighter And I don't bloody care that nn in a thousand die in a car crash and n in a thousand die in and air crash and only a mere n.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 die at the hands of these deranged lunatics You go get bitten by your Gay shark and keep on telling folk that there is nothing to worry about. Especially, you tell this to the parents of the teenagers who were ripped apart by these assholes in Manchester; tell them that their children died because the US bombed Afganistan - Mrs. J -" It was a homophobic shark, not a gay shark. Though, on the balance of probabilities, a gay shark would bite me too, as they don't seem to discriminate when they're hungry. | |||
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"Reasons aren't demands! I could give 6 reasons why I hate you but they wouldn't be demands that you somehow defer to me in any way, or change your behaviour due to my demands. Your implication was that they'd recently made new demands, not the same shit they've been spouting about the West for years, which I'm perfectly aware of. Exactly. Demands can be negotiated upon; there is give and take How does one counter: *The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam." Your call - Mrs. J - I'll be embracing Islam shortly then, I'd hate to upset anyone else. I'll just make sure it's the same Islam as my Muslim friends, not the weird one that that fools who bomb children and stab people in the streets on a Saturday night (don't) adhere to." Good for you Hopefully you will a decent Muslim like all my other Muslim friends are; and I have plenty of them Some pray five times a day; some don't give a shit. But despite the fact that the Quran tells them they either the infidels convert or they are taxed to death, they ignore that bit and get on with their lives and let everyone else get on with theirs - Mrs. J - | |||
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"So the fact that time and time again, the Muslim community speaks out against terrorism, reports potential terrorists to the IS and helps those that are victims after attacks isn't being part of the solution. We could perhaps go back to a time when we didn't bomb the shit out of any country that has a regime we don't like and a plentiful supply of oil; that way reducing the amount of people that become radicalised. I'm seeing a bit of give and take developing here, maybe you do have the solution. Though I'm falling to see the Christian-right in the U.S. having it's balls chopped off, given that they've got a couple of feet in the door of the White House at the moment." . But in no way have I mentioned the Muslim community being part of the problem, the fact remains neither you nor I nor the "Muslim community" have any true meaning of the Koran or the hadiths, there is no king pin to cement anything written unless Allah himself comes down and tells us exact nobody has a clue, its open to interpretation! And that's where the argument can be won with the help of the Muslim community. No more will we have to second guess what should happen to apostates or homosexuals, no more will we need second guesses on living with or without a burka, wife beating, child beating, slavery, alcohol... A day when seeing a cartoon of Mohammed may offend you but not need to guess about wether you should be looping the head of the blasphemer to be a good muslim. Liberal Muslims need help in being liberal, there being threatened by the alt Reich of Islam and told to shut the fuck up or else. They just need a little help from us to be the gay, pink skirt wearing transvestite, punk rock, bunch of d*unken religious festival lovers we are! | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened? as long as you're ok that's great, I mean who cares about the gay people being persecuted out there am I right? " What sort of leap of logic was that? | |||
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"Proud member of the EDL We need to take our country back. Wake up From whom exactly? If you mean the Tories I am with you brother..." and have Diane Abbott as Home Secretary!!! I realise everyone has their own views but how anyone can consider her and her terrorist sympathiser of a boss as in any form credible is utterly beyond me. | |||
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"sheikyerbouti - I don't really want to get involved in all this but, as a bisexual (like myself) you are particularly despised not only by the extremists but by the vast majority of that faith - you really do come across as a left wing apologist. Trust me - if we don't do something to stop this threat you will be in real danger. You're rather smug in quoting statistics about chance of attack etc. What you have no idea of is how long this type of thing has been planned and what the future plans are. The enemy within has been amassing for a long time - very conveniently hiding behind the horrible environment the neo liberal left wing have created - quote the statistics in 5 years time." So you reckon we're about to be overrun with previously hidden ISIS sleeper cells then? If so, where are you getting your information from, if I have no idea and you appear to do so? I'm not a left-wing apologist, I just like to look at my options from a distance that allows a little brevity, rather than being whipped up by the media (left or right) I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong, but hope I won't be (obviously); surely that's as valid a position as any? | |||
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"Perhaps if you would have volunteered to take the place of one of the seven who were killed by the terrorists in London, your argument will sound sincere - Mrs. J -" Sorry but that is just silly, if I could time travel, perhaps there were victims I could replace, but perhaps I would stop the British government creating Isis in the first place instead 
Internment of suspects would do nothing to help the innocents, but would create more hatred and more attacks. So the plan is flawed from the start. There is only one solution and that is to talk, who with and how to start... I don't know, but peace only ever happens after talking is done. | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened? as long as you're ok that's great, I mean who cares about the gay people being persecuted out there am I right? What sort of leap of logic was that?" The leap of logic which they embrace when either pushing homosexuals off tall buildings or giving them the 'choice' of leaping of it all by themselves You live in a tolerant secular society; even then, in East London, some Muslim fanatics tried to put up street signs stating, "no Gays". They should have been given long prision sentences for inciting hatred. Instead, the liberal and far left just ignored it for that would be 'racist' I will be fine, for a while; so will my husband for a while, until we both escape. But you will be the first on their list for a BBQ - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Perhaps if you would have volunteered to take the place of one of the seven who were killed by the terrorists in London, your argument will sound sincere - Mrs. J - Sorry but that is just silly, if I could time travel, perhaps there were victims I could replace, but perhaps I would stop the British government creating Isis in the first place instead
Internment of suspects would do nothing to help the innocents, but would create more hatred and more attacks. So the plan is flawed from the start. There is only one solution and that is to talk, who with and how to start... I don't know, but peace only ever happens after talking is done."Talk??? About what? About mass conversions to Islam? And talk to whome? Now THAT is really silly - Mrs. J - | |||
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"Perhaps if you would have volunteered to take the place of one of the seven who were killed by the terrorists in London, your argument will sound sincere - Mrs. J - Sorry but that is just silly, if I could time travel, perhaps there were victims I could replace, but perhaps I would stop the British government creating Isis in the first place instead
Internment of suspects would do nothing to help the innocents, but would create more hatred and more attacks. So the plan is flawed from the start. There is only one solution and that is to talk, who with and how to start... I don't know, but peace only ever happens after talking is done.". Talk about what, your demise, the eradication of your way of life, your submission to Allah.. | |||
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"Except, statistically I'm as likely to be bitten by a homophobic shark than I am to be set on fire by members of ISIS! Are you really THAT frightened? as long as you're ok that's great, I mean who cares about the gay people being persecuted out there am I right? What sort of leap of logic was that? The leap of logic which they embrace when either pushing homosexuals off tall buildings or giving them the 'choice' of leaping of it all by themselves You live in a tolerant secular society; even then, in East London, some Muslim fanatics tried to put up street signs stating, "no Gays". They should have been given long prision sentences for inciting hatred. Instead, the liberal and far left just ignored it for that would be 'racist' I will be fine, for a while; so will my husband for a while, until we both escape. But you will be the first on their list for a BBQ - Mrs. J -" The leap I was on about was because I made a flippant reply to your remark I somehow have no empathy for any persecuted gay people! | |||
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"sheikyerbouti - I don't really want to get involved in all this but, as a bisexual (like myself) you are particularly despised not only by the extremists but by the vast majority of that faith - you really do come across as a left wing apologist. Trust me - if we don't do something to stop this threat you will be in real danger. You're rather smug in quoting statistics about chance of attack etc. What you have no idea of is how long this type of thing has been planned and what the future plans are. The enemy within has been amassing for a long time - very conveniently hiding behind the horrible environment the neo liberal left wing have created - quote the statistics in 5 years time. So you reckon we're about to be overrun with previously hidden ISIS sleeper cells then? If so, where are you getting your information from, if I have no idea and you appear to do so? I'm not a left-wing apologist, I just like to look at my options from a distance that allows a little brevity, rather than being whipped up by the media (left or right) I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong, but hope I won't be (obviously); surely that's as valid a position as any?" Three attacks in London in the last three months and one in Manchester Are you kidding? You still think that they are not gaining momentum? And on top of those attacks, the security services state that they have managed to stop many more from taking place. I bet you will tell us that this is all propaganda by the Western governments to hoodwink us - Mrs. J - | |||
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"sheikyerbouti - I don't really want to get involved in all this but, as a bisexual (like myself) you are particularly despised not only by the extremists but by the vast majority of that faith - you really do come across as a left wing apologist. Trust me - if we don't do something to stop this threat you will be in real danger. You're rather smug in quoting statistics about chance of attack etc. What you have no idea of is how long this type of thing has been planned and what the future plans are. The enemy within has been amassing for a long time - very conveniently hiding behind the horrible environment the neo liberal left wing have created - quote the statistics in 5 years time."
Gay, bisexual people are welcomed on this site and, by and large, by the mainstream secular society too. That secular society consists of people like myself who are staunch Catholics. We meet bisexual couples all the time; some we have made friends with
But ask even a moderate Muslim about homosexuality and one is more likely to hear a negative comment, than not
We need to promote tolerance by getting the moderate Muslims on our side; and yes, we are on opposing sides to the fundamentalist Muslims
And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusades and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusades and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J -" So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb? | |||
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusades and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J - So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb?" Do you seriously think that any of these terrorists had anyone they even know remotely, killed or harmed by any of those wars? We gave shelter to the family of the last one who killed all those teenagers in Manchester. This is how he repaid us for our kindness and generosity They are a bunch of moronic losers who are so stupid that they really think that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins for killing innocent people. They couldn't even get a girlfriend on Earth. They have no chance of getting even one in their heaven You keep on with your apolgjectic stance; I'll stick to my pragmatic one - Mrs. J - | |||
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusades and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J - So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb? Do you seriously think that any of these terrorists had anyone they even know remotely, killed or harmed by any of those wars? We gave shelter to the family of the last one who killed all those teenagers in Manchester. This is how he repaid us for our kindness and generosity They are a bunch of moronic losers who are so stupid that they really think that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins for killing innocent people. They couldn't even get a girlfriend on Earth. They have no chance of getting even one in their heaven You keep on with your apolgjectic stance; I'll stick to my pragmatic one - Mrs. J -" It's not apology to recognise that there is an element of cause and effect in all this. It is certainly not pragmatic to ignore that factor. | |||
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusades and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J - So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb? Do you seriously think that any of these terrorists had anyone they even know remotely, killed or harmed by any of those wars? We gave shelter to the family of the last one who killed all those teenagers in Manchester. This is how he repaid us for our kindness and generosity They are a bunch of moronic losers who are so stupid that they really think that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins for killing innocent people. They couldn't even get a girlfriend on Earth. They have no chance of getting even one in their heaven You keep on with your apolgjectic stance; I'll stick to my pragmatic one - Mrs. J - It's not apology to recognise that there is an element of cause and effect in all this. It is certainly not pragmatic to ignore that factor. " You did not answer my question. Which one of the terrorists had their family harmed by anything that the US did in Syria or Afganistan? And why did the terrorist, who we gave shelter to, kill 22 people in Manchester? Was that the 'cause and effect' you are harking on about? Maybe we should not have let his family in and let them rot in Libya. That would have removed the 'cause and effect' - Mrs. J - | |||
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusade6s and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J - So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb? Do you seriously think that any of these terrorists had anyone they even know remotely, killed or harmed by any of those wars? We gave shelter to the family of the last one who killed all those teenagers in Manchester. This is how he repaid us for our kindness and generosity They are a bunch of moronic losers who are so stupid that they really think that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins for killing innocent people. They couldn't even get a girlfriend on Earth. They have no chance of getting even one in their heaven You keep on with your apolgjectic stance; I'll stick to my pragmatic one - Mrs. J - It's not apology to recognise that there is an element of cause and effect in all this. It is certainly not pragmatic to ignore that factor. You did not answer my question. Which one of the terrorists had their family harmed by anything that the US did in Syria or Afganistan? And why did the terrorist, who we gave shelter to, kill 22 people in Manchester? Was that the 'cause and effect' you are harking on about? Maybe we should not have let his family in and let them rot in Libya. That would have removed the 'cause and effect' - Mrs. J -" You are conveniently forgetting that we armed the rebels that destabilised Libya, we also armed and funded Isis in Syria, that is a direct cause and effect of your elected MP's. The hatred caused by that mistake will cause problems for years to come. I don't know the solution, do you? | |||
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" And FFS (not you), stop being apologetic about the crusade6s and the war in Afganistan. Whatever happened was bad or very bad or fucking bad. It really makes no difference to me when these morons kill innocent men, women and children here - Mrs. J - So do you seriously believe there is no connection whatsoever, between what we do in foreign countries and what then happens here? Not even one person influenced by having their family killed by a British bomb? Do you seriously think that any of these terrorists had anyone they even know remotely, killed or harmed by any of those wars? We gave shelter to the family of the last one who killed all those teenagers in Manchester. This is how he repaid us for our kindness and generosity They are a bunch of moronic losers who are so stupid that they really think that they will be rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins for killing innocent people. They couldn't even get a girlfriend on Earth. They have no chance of getting even one in their heaven You keep on with your apolgjectic stance; I'll stick to my pragmatic one - Mrs. J - It's not apology to recognise that there is an element of cause and effect in all this. It is certainly not pragmatic to ignore that factor. You did not answer my question. Which one of the terrorists had their family harmed by anything that the US did in Syria or Afganistan? And why did the terrorist, who we gave shelter to, kill 22 people in Manchester? Was that the 'cause and effect' you are harking on about? Maybe we should not have let his family in and let them rot in Libya. That would have removed the 'cause and effect' - Mrs. J - You are conveniently forgetting that we armed the rebels that destabilised Libya, we also armed and funded Isis in Syria, that is a direct cause and effect of your elected MP's. The hatred caused by that mistake will cause problems for years to come. I don't know the solution, do you?" And you are conveniently forgetting that the family of the murderoius bastard who killed 22 people, including children and teenagers, wanted to come to this country. They could have gone to Syria instead if they hated our way of life and values so much Yes, I do know the solution Bring the moderate Muslims on our side; they are almost there anyways and they are the victims of these attacks too Those who are on the watch list; watch them; one step out of line, either deport them or watch them even more closely Stop spouting all this liberal left and far left nonsense about racism. There is no racism in watching or deporting terrorists or would-be terrorists who are out to kill us. I would say that give them the death penalty except for the fact that I am against any person, taking another person's life, no matter what the reason. Instead, if we cannot deport them, then sentence them to their ENTIRE life in prison And where did you glean this bit of info that we funded ISIS? Citation? Or did you just make it up? Or are you privy to those secret espionage files that I and others here don't have a clue about?
Purlease, I wouldn't vote for those bunch of idiots anyway
- Mrs. J - | |||
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"Unfortunately the likelihood is that events like these will become more commonplace. Our official interference by Government actions abroad, along with the secret involvement by Spooks poking hornet nests too often, is turning round and biting us in the arse. We should not be surprised given the continual hypocrisy and arrogance shown by Western Governments for decades. Have a read of Jon Pilger's recent article to get some idea of what may be going on in the background. I can't vouch for it being 100% fact but he is a respected journalist and it certainly gives food for thought. Nothing justifies such barbaric actions as Manchester and London but I increasingly feel that we are reaping what we have sown thanks to the past Governments of various parties. http://johnpilger.com/articles/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know " . I concur alot with John pilger but it's entirely possible to be both against western foreign policy and against jihadis, foreign policy didn't create jihadism, it just manipulated it for its own purposes, its not a chicken and egg question. As I've said before, I will not vote for any party that continues our existing foreign policy, I have some responsibility as a voter to not keep the status quo in operation. That doesn't mean I wouldn't throw some of these wolves to the lions though  | |||
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"It's no secret that we supplied arms and funds to the rebels to overthrow Libya and Syria, where do you think those guns ended up? There are more than 20,000 on the watchlist, that takes more than 120,000 people to watch them all... we really don't want to go down the line of prosecuting suspicion do we?" It is a secret which only you and other high-ranking Secret Service official know. That is why I asked you for a citation, which you did not provide. Secret Service rules, forbid you to?
Yes, we DO want to prosecute on likelihood; just as we arrest a guy carrying a knife or burglary 'tools'; neither has committed a crime, yet. The fact that it will take a lot of resources (don't know where you got the 20,000 and 120,000 numbers from; I thought it was 3,000 on the watch list and, unlike you, I can cite this, if you'd like me to) is largely irrelevant. As the alternative is to deport these 3,000 people, which I would not subscribe to
What we do NOT want to do is to do nothing and wait for the inevitable next attack
- Mrs. J - | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge." Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J - | |||
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"Having watched the news today, seeing places I grew up as a kid, now being investigated by police for harbouring last night's attackers and those possibly linked to them, I wonder what has happened that has driven these men to hate the British way of life so much. I possibly could have gone to school with their parents or elder siblings, having been schooled in thise parts of East London, but of all the Muslims I went to school with, not one would I ever say had the mentality that the extremists hold.. These are scary times, to think that our neighbours could be plotting against us, wanting to murder those we hold dear. How do we stop them? Should the likes of Google, Facebook and WhatsApp be more responsible for what is posted in their services.. Perhaps criminal charges be brought against them for allowing hate propaganda be broadcast? Views and opinions please.. Any hateful comments against groups or individuals will be requested to be removed so play nicely together guys.. " I think this would be futile tbh as more often than not its blogs and websites that people search for themselves that are responsible for the more extreme content. This being said social media does have an amount of groups aimed at radicalisation. The reason I thinks this is a bad idea is simply that the only place you truly have free speach throughout the world and even in the uk is through the internet, once you start limiting what people can and cant say here it becomes a slippery slope and soon enough, any form of freedom of speach will be inhibited in one form or another, Surely a better solution would be education, schools, religious groups especially mosques speaking out against radicalization in all its forms. Show these kids thatg go to fight for isis the actual life they would lead, and instill from an early age respect for people from other cultures and people as a whole through again education and discipline. | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge. Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J -"Not to train isis fighters no, but through the wars in iraq and afganistan many Iraqi and afgan soldiers were trained by nato forces to keep the country stable, unfortunately many of these soldiers became isis fighters at a later date. We also supplied many arms to the lybian rebels during the gaddafi regime, its well known that many of these so called freedom fighters joined extremists groups after gaddafi was killed, this helped isis gain a foothold in lybia. Parliament is still supplying arms to saudi arabia, some of these weapons find there way to extremist groups. | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge. Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J -
Not to train isis fighters no, but through the wars in iraq and afganistan many Iraqi and afgan soldiers were trained by nato forces to keep the country stable, unfortunately many of these soldiers became isis fighters at a later date.
We also supplied many arms to the lybian rebels during the gaddafi regime, its well known that many of these so called freedom fighters joined extremists groups after gaddafi was killed, this helped isis gain a foothold in lybia.
Parliament is still supplying arms to saudi arabia, some of these weapons find there way to extremist groups.
"Agreed We did train their troops to fight Al-Quida (I think that is how it is spelt). That was done in good faith and it was to protect the Afghan people, who are still trying to enter the UK as asylum seekers But to suggest that we funded and armed ISIS is just pub-talk - Mrs. J - | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge. Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J -
Not to train isis fighters no, but through the wars in iraq and afganistan many Iraqi and afgan soldiers were trained by nato forces to keep the country stable, unfortunately many of these soldiers became isis fighters at a later date.
We also supplied many arms to the lybian rebels during the gaddafi regime, its well known that many of these so called freedom fighters joined extremists groups after gaddafi was killed, this helped isis gain a foothold in lybia.
Parliament is still supplying arms to saudi arabia, some of these weapons find there way to extremist groups.
"The British government keeps a check on the stockpiles of Saudi weapons and maintains them under an long term agreement. The Saudi government does not arm extremest groups, however it doesn't mean that Saudi money from rich benefactors, along with many other states including the UAE, Kuwait,etc, doesn't find its way in to funding fringe political and terrorist organisations in rogue states such as Yemen and even Pakistan.. It all boils down to the which side of the muhammad fence you sit on to where your political and social ideology lies..1500 years of feuding seems to stick in some people's throats. However, i do love the way people spout rubbish about how it's natos fault that Is got so powerful and nothing to do with the years of political and social unrest in the region, the spread of social media and people's desire for a better life, one where they are not governed by a corrupt regime and of course nothing to do with the Arab spring of 2010 with uprisings across North Africa and the middle east which totally destabilised the whole region leaving it open and unprotected from a rapidly emerging group looking to create a sharia state based upon fundamental principles. | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge. Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J -"20,000 on watch list is here:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40158730/does-a-terror-watch-list-exist-in-the-uk-and-how-is-it-used-by-police Arms to Libya was in 2010 / 11 so links are harder to find, but they are out there. Along with many links on how those arms moved out to Syrian forces before IS got established, In 2013 the UK led a group to overturn a block on Europe supplying small arms to Syria. Not pub talk at all, we have better things to talk about in the pub. Before IS went into Iraq they were part of the rebel forces our government hoped would topple the Syrian government. Apparently we never knew they may be extremists... Behind all of that is the oil, and the West v Russia, proxy war played out with Syrian lives. It's a complex little game the politicians are playing, all or most of which is in the past and can't be fixed. But for the sake of argument, let's accept your 3000 figure, that would only require 18,000 police to watch them 24 hours a day 5 days a week, even extremists take weekends off don't they? Most of them have done no more than look at a website, taken a holiday in Turkey, or spoken angrily when a western forces bomb went off course and taken out a few hundred civilians. Start detaining people for this and the numbers of potential recruits will swell massively, how does that make anything safer? | |||
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"Tangent.... but I find it relevant in terms of energy being put into these discussions. I'm far more likely to be murdered by a random man or by a currrent or previous partner than by a terrorist. Men murdered 900 women 2009-2015, terrorists murdered 90 people 2000-2015: source article I can provide from The Telegraph, but not sure if hyperlink posting would break forum rules. I am not a man-hater, it's simply interesting to me the vast numbers of people putting energy into how we deal with terrorists who are unlikely to put as much energy into denouncing male violence. Why no stats for female murderers? There are actually, there is over 500 years of english history to go by, and when you do you'll realise that all the "violent misogynist men" stuff is total bullshit. Broadly speaking the numbers of men and women in english history from circa 1500 to the present who comitted murder are around about the same, up until 1900's it was the women who were in the lead. What *is* notable if you look at 5/600 years of history is that there *is* a difference in both *how* men and women murder, and *who* the victims are likely to be. The women often used poison, and usually killed husbands, children and the odd other woman, and it was pretty much always a "domestic" thing. The men often used more violent methods, and usually killed as part of another crime, such as robbery, although there was a bit of revenge killing and some wife killing. In the context of *this* thread, it's often the women behind the crazed suicide terr'rist that incite them to do it, sadly we only target the young bearded radicalised males, when invariably it is entire social circles and families that need to be rounded up and dumped at sea." Everything you've posted is showing you have completely missed my point. Ah well. | |||
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"120,000 came from the report that there are 20,000 on the uk watch list as of the BBC news report today, allowing teams of 2 over 3 shifts per 24 hours, I have not factored in weekends annual leave etc. Supplying weapons and training was approved by parliament under the previous Cameron clegg government and is a matter of public record. No need for secret squirle knowledge. Nope; it is 3,000 on the watch list. Since it is the FT, I am not breaking any site rules by posting the link: https://www.ft.com/content/35a081fa-bea9-11e4-8d9e-00144feab7de Now, your turn to post a reputable link where it states that there were 20,000 on the watch list
No, no such weapons and training was approved for ISIS by any government. Once again, please do back up your claim by citing a link to a government document or to a reputable news article. I think you just heard this 'story' in a pub and repeated it so often that you started believing in it
- Mrs. J -
20,000 on watch list is here:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/40158730/does-a-terror-watch-list-exist-in-the-uk-and-how-is-it-used-by-police
Arms to Libya was in 2010 / 11 so links are harder to find, but they are out there. Along with many links on how those arms moved out to Syrian forces before IS got established,
In 2013 the UK led a group to overturn a block on Europe supplying small arms to Syria.
Not pub talk at all, we have better things to talk about in the pub.
Before IS went into Iraq they were part of the rebel forces our government hoped would topple the Syrian government. Apparently we never knew they may be extremists...
Behind all of that is the oil, and the West v Russia, proxy war played out with Syrian lives.
It's a complex little game the politicians are playing, all or most of which is in the past and can't be fixed.
But for the sake of argument, let's accept your 3000 figure, that would only require 18,000 police to watch them 24 hours a day 5 days a week, even extremists take weekends off don't they? Most of them have done no more than look at a website, taken a holiday in Turkey, or spoken angrily when a western forces bomb went off course and taken out a few hundred civilians. Start detaining people for this and the numbers of potential recruits will swell massively, how does that make anything safer?"Wrong! The watch list is 3,000 and these aren't people who have just looked at a website or travelled alone to Turkey or Syria. Please read the article for which YOU have provided the link "There are names that are down as extremists and we've been told there are more than 20,000 of those in the UK, but they are not watched all the time." "According to Margaret there are around 3,000 names on this list, and MI5 are very concerned about those people. "We know that those people will be under pretty regular surveillance and watched a lot of the time." I don't know what you guys talk about in a pub; I went in one once and it stinks of beer As for your other points; we never funded ISIS. We trained the freedom fighters who unknown to us, were moronic idiots, who later joined ISIS; rebels without a cause Now I must dash for some recreational sex which would result in me getting the death penalty from these deranged idiots - Mrs. J - | |||
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"All I see are people trying to make sense of the 'why' of a horrific, complex situation. There's no simple answer to the question. As everyone knows, the history to this, is long and involved and there are a lot of players, who have changed sides and back again. It's not like ni which was so much easier to grasp, even if not agree with. The complexity of the background and the disparity of the cultures in conflict make it extremely difficult to understand. And without that understanding, it's even harder to think of a solution. But, whatever it is, to have long term effectiveness, it won't be straightforward, as I'm sure everyone can see. " There is a simple solution, unfortunately people do not have the appetite or resolve for the war of attrition that it involves. It is well known the countries that actively harbour the training camps, however an all out war on those countries would make afganistan seem like a picnic in the park. So instead, we poke the hornets nest, dropping paveways and brimstones on strategic targets from drones, but otherwise keeping them in check while we gear up for our next major battle which doesn't involve a bloke with a kalashnikov and suicide vest. | |||
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"Wrong! The watch list is 3,000 and these aren't people who have just looked at a website or travelled alone to Turkey or Syria. Please read the article for which YOU have provided the link "There are names that are down as extremists and we've been told there are more than 20,000 of those in the UK, but they are not watched all the time." "According to Margaret there are around 3,000 names on this list, and MI5 are very concerned about those people. "We know that those people will be under pretty regular surveillance and watched a lot of the time." I don't know what you guys talk about in a pub; I went in one once and it stinks of beer As for your other points; we never funded ISIS. We trained the freedom fighters who unknown to us, were moronic idiots, who later joined ISIS; rebels without a cause Now I must dash for some recreational sex which would result in me getting the death penalty from these deranged idiots - Mrs. J -" I did read it, but took the total figure as the last 3 attacks have come from the 17,000 + not watched, not the 3000 sometimes checked on. 'Freedom fighter' in a liberal Muslim state, obviously a good bet to arm and train, what could possibly go wrong! Either our government are morons, or there is something we are not getting told. Enjoy your recreational sex, I am out of this thread, the horse died ages ago and my whip arm is tired. Bottom line is it's a complex situation, the UK and many other parts of the western world are not innocent victims, but somebody somewhere is probably making a profit. Don't be afraid, in 20 years time not much will have actually changed, and we will probably be plagued by some other loonies. | |||
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