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operation temperer

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

operation temperer. slowly getting the public used to an armed presence on our streets? England and wales have cut numbers of police officers in recent years by somewhere in the region of 20000. now, we need to put military on our streets to 'free up police officers' it feels very much like part of a longer game to get the general public used to, even supporting putting armed men and women on the streets.

i for one dont want them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think in this time period we need them.

But as you say ...it the long term I hope we don't see them and I tend to agree with you on the cuts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sign of the times my friend

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By *ayde BlanchardTV/TS
over a year ago

lancashire

I agree with you coming from Canada where ok the police are armed. Go over the boarder to the U.S it's like the Wild West. England's always been a nicer environment where firearms were never a part of life "how it should be" Terrorist win when they make us change our way of life. Which will be the case the actions of terror should not be allowed to disrupt our values and way of life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm ok with Armed forces patrolling our cities..

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor

If it helps to keep us that bit safer I'm all for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it helps to keep us that bit safer I'm all for it."

Yeah i tend to think that way,or am i just agreeing with you because your hot? hmm

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"operation temperer. slowly getting the public used to an armed presence on our streets? England and wales have cut numbers of police officers in recent years by somewhere in the region of 20000. now, we need to put military on our streets to 'free up police officers' it feels very much like part of a longer game to get the general public used to, even supporting putting armed men and women on the streets.

i for one dont want them."

isn't this just a bi product of the fact our police are on the whole not armed if every police officer was trained and armed i very much doubt if we would be using military personal .

man has a suicide vest on the easiest way to stop him detonating that is a double tap to the head . like i saw a bi product of a unarmed police force is you can not use lethal force to save lives .

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor


"If it helps to keep us that bit safer I'm all for it.

Yeah i tend to think that way,or am i just agreeing with you because your hot? hmm "

I'm blinking roasting at this moment in time,it's very hot in my garden!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it helps to keep us that bit safer I'm all for it.

Yeah i tend to think that way,or am i just agreeing with you because your hot? hmm

I'm blinking roasting at this moment in time,it's very hot in my garden! "

Its overcast where i am,not cold but certainly not roasting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Diversity is a strength!! Or so we keep being told.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

The chances of an armed army guy or otherwise being in the right place at the right time to shoot to stop a terrorist is negligible - more chance of an innocent passerby getting fragged by accident than anything. It seems to me like 'we must be seen to be doing something - this is something"

I sound cynical but I don't think it will change anything. More searches of bags and stuff is needed I think. We can all get used to delays for that.

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor


"If it helps to keep us that bit safer I'm all for it.

Yeah i tend to think that way,or am i just agreeing with you because your hot? hmm

I'm blinking roasting at this moment in time,it's very hot in my garden!

Its overcast where i am,not cold but certainly not roasting"

You should be stripped off and over here you would be then!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm all for the army on our streets. Armed police - we should have more of them in my opinion

We need to protect our children, our next generation & preserve all the good we have all strived for to make our country a peaceful yet modern place, which those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways - start by taking the extremist schools, mosques & shutting them down!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No amount of armed police will stop a murderer like the guy in Manchester.

No problem with armed police though. Just won't do anything to stop that kind of event.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"operation temperer. slowly getting the public used to an armed presence on our streets? England and wales have cut numbers of police officers in recent years by somewhere in the region of 20000. now, we need to put military on our streets to 'free up police officers' it feels very much like part of a longer game to get the general public used to, even supporting putting armed men and women on the streets.

i for one dont want them.

isn't this just a bi product of the fact our police are on the whole not armed if every police officer was trained and armed i very much doubt if we would be using military personal .

man has a suicide vest on the easiest way to stop him detonating that is a double tap to the head . like i saw a bi product of a unarmed police force is you can not use lethal force to save lives . "

Nah, not quite true.

Police in America are armed and trained. And yet following 9/11 there were military personnel all over the place.

Not to mention the fact that the militarization of police in the US is a growing trend, and some would say a growing problem.

Is it fixing anything? I don't think so, and the stats don't support the idea that it's made anyone safer (in fact, it might make people less safe, depending on what numbers you analyse).

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with making people safer. If someone wants to become a suicide bomber there is little anyone can do to stop them from killing people. I think it's all about deniability. Imagine what people would say if another attack were to happen and the government hadn't put more security forces on the ground...hmmmm...

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I don't think guns protect people - I think they injure and kill. Or the person behind the trigger yadda yadda yadda.

I really don't see how an armed policeman would keep anyone safe. Like the person above said, it wouldn't have stopped the Manchester bomber.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If an armed presence worked then I would be all up for it...but it doesn't or there would be more peace... I think it is an awful idea..it only gives temporary feelings of safety against something that has been happening here for a very long time...way before the Americans would have us believe...we carried on with our lives then and now are at peace with those particular "terrorists"....personally I think we should do the same now too! Religion and racism have alot to answer too and always have had....but they are not the only ones....respect borders or don't...ya can't have it both ways and expect everyone to be happy right?!

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By *rrol.BMan
over a year ago

Wrexham


"The chances of an armed army guy or otherwise being in the right place at the right time to shoot to stop a terrorist is negligible - more chance of an innocent passerby getting fragged by accident than anything. It seems to me like 'we must be seen to be doing something - this is something"

I sound cynical but I don't think it will change anything. More searches of bags and stuff is needed I think. We can all get used to delays for that. "

Exactly this.

The safety they bring is negligible. The danger they pose is vast.

I'm all for increased security but not at the cost of freedoms and not in the form of theatre.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The chances of an armed army guy or otherwise being in the right place at the right time to shoot to stop a terrorist is negligible - more chance of an innocent passerby getting fragged by accident than anything. It seems to me like 'we must be seen to be doing something - this is something"

I sound cynical but I don't think it will change anything. More searches of bags and stuff is needed I think. We can all get used to delays for that. "

i agree, the chances of an armed officer being in the right place at the right time, with line of sight and enough warning to take an effective shot is damn near zero....do the bombers kind of announce they're about to blow up and give folk fair warning? i'd think they'd do it quietly. if i had a device i could set it off without being shot i'm sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"operation temperer. slowly getting the public used to an armed presence on our streets? England and wales have cut numbers of police officers in recent years by somewhere in the region of 20000. now, we need to put military on our streets to 'free up police officers' it feels very much like part of a longer game to get the general public used to, even supporting putting armed men and women on the streets.

i for one dont want them."

Me either, that's the beginning of the end if that happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm all for the army on our streets. Armed police - we should have more of them in my opinion

We need to protect our children, our next generation & preserve all the good we have all strived for to make our country a peaceful yet modern place, which those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways - start by taking the extremist schools, mosques & shutting them down! "

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate yet we are called the racist. This is the reason for the rise on populism.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"operation temperer. slowly getting the public used to an armed presence on our streets? England and wales have cut numbers of police officers in recent years by somewhere in the region of 20000. now, we need to put military on our streets to 'free up police officers' it feels very much like part of a longer game to get the general public used to, even supporting putting armed men and women on the streets.

i for one dont want them.

Me either, that's the beginning of the end if that happens. "

The solution may be coming up on Election Day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These knee jerk reactions don't really solve anything. They will increase security at concert venues and the terrorists will just blow themselves up somewhere else. A train station, fair ground, a crowded bus etc etc. The soft targets are endless for them. The only real way to prevent attacks is by good solid intel gathering and acting on it quickly. They are using the army because the police have been cut to the bone and can barely meet every day demand, they don't have the resilience for things like this.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

I see the need to draft in the millitary as a sign that the Police force lack resources.

They lack resources bcause they are underfunded and understaffed.

Remind me, how did that happen again?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Walked through town today and we have armed police walking the streets. And I only live in a small town. First time I've ever seen it here and I've lived here all my life. It's pretty scary tbh

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm all for the army on our streets. Armed police - we should have more of them in my opinion

We need to protect our children, our next generation & preserve all the good we have all strived for to make our country a peaceful yet modern place, which those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways - start by taking the extremist schools, mosques & shutting them down! "

soldiers with guns shooting the bad guy just in time and keeping everyone safe? you think that'll happen? i doubt that very very much.

i dare say stories of attacks being averted will crop up in the media though, just to keep up the illusion that it's an effective measure. and close what you will, people will still meet and communicate and plan in other places and using other means (i would) it won't stop anything.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/05/17 14:23:24]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In any of the terrorist incidents in this country in the last 50 years, how could they have been prevented by armed police? The Westminster attack doesn't count, the police were armed and chaos still ensued.

Lee Rigby, at a push and that's doubtful.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

there once lived a shepherd boy, One day, he saw a wolf following the herd of sheep but keeping its distance. He became quite alert.

The wolf watched them from a distance on a hillside every day and did nothing to harm them.

The shepherd boy saw no inclination that the wolf was after the sheep, so he gradually relaxed his guard. He even fancied that it might be a shepherding wolf, a kind one that was different from other wolves.

One day, the boy needed to go into town, so he asked the wolf if it would help him by guarding the sheep in his absence.

Very happily, the wolf accepted the task, promising to take good care of the sheep while the boy was away.

The shepherd boy then headed into town. When the wolf was sure that the boy had left, it pounced on the sheep. Having starved for such a long period of time, the wolf sated its hunger as it enjoyed the sheep.

When the shepherd returned, he saw that most of the sheep had been killed and there was blood all over the hillside. He then realised what the wolf had done.

He regretted being tricked very much, but said: “It serves me right! How could I trust a wolf and set a wolf to watch over sheep?”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways"


"Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ..."

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well...at least this is all distracting people from the fact our government are ok with, for a multitude of reasons that have sod all to do with terrorists, our children not being able to eat or being made homeless on a daily basis eh?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The Conservatives want minimal state employees so next step could be outsourcing military squads to the likes of ATOS etc, then people just have to put up and shut up with whatever happens - it's all for your own good of course. Kim Jong May think she knows best, as the PR spin doctors will force you to believe.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"The chances of an armed army guy or otherwise being in the right place at the right time to shoot to stop a terrorist is negligible - more chance of an innocent passerby getting fragged by accident than anything. It seems to me like 'we must be seen to be doing something - this is something"

I sound cynical but I don't think it will change anything. More searches of bags and stuff is needed I think. We can all get used to delays for that. "

I agree, this particular move is mostly for confidence and show.

But as you mention, where is the nearest soldier or armed response vehicle? When that nice security guy looks in your waitrose bag and says 'sorry sir, you can't come in with a gun' , I'd like some armed response to be closer.

I would support training many more armed police officers. Not a solution by any means, but I think it would help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further."

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Well...at least this is all distracting people from the fact our government are ok with, for a multitude of reasons that have sod all to do with terrorists, our children not being able to eat or being made homeless on a daily basis eh?"

The day before yesterday Mrs May was squirming under the spotlight for having made various uturns and changing her manifesto - unheard of - that's all gone and largely forgotten.

Also "sending them back" won't solve the problem. People get angry when there is inequality in society.

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By *ristol HellfireMan
over a year ago

Bristol

[Removed by poster at 24/05/17 14:50:54]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who is this 'they'?

"

The "They" in this context sounds like the government, the police and the media.

This and all other attacks are all being spun so as to blame Muslims in general.

This only serves to stir up racial hatred towards other Muslims in the UK, making it easier for these organizations to recruit and adding fuelling their hatred of the west.

It seems that the lessons we learnt from the 1970s when we had the IRA bombs going off on a regular basis have been forgotten.

We are playing into the hands of terrorism by giving terrorists the publicity and disruption that they want.

Frankly if anyone needs to integrate, it's us who need to learn to integrate with the rest of the world and not try to force our ideas on other civilisations.

Before we interfere with people getting killed abroad how about considering domestic violence at home first?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance! "

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

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By *ristol HellfireMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"

isn't this just a bi product of the fact our police are on the whole not armed if every police officer was trained and armed i very much doubt if we would be using military personal .

man has a suicide vest on the easiest way to stop him detonating that is a double tap to the head . like i saw a bi product of a unarmed police force is you can not use lethal force to save lives . "

Carrying, and using firearms, requires a mental aptitude that, sadly, has not been demonstrated in some police firearms officers (see the Thames Valley Firearms fiasco).

The frequency of necessary training to maintain competence is a prohibitory factor, and not all police officers will be medically fit to train (eyesight/hearing/mobility/medication etc.)

The 'double tap' requires additional levels of skill and practice, and it does not guarantee that a 'suicide vest' will not be rigged to explode due to incapacitation.

Lucifer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These things actually reflect well on the political parties in how they are seen to deal with them. With an imminent general election, this was a dream ticket for Theresa May.

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By *ust TallMan
over a year ago

weston-super-mare

The idea that armed officers cant save lives is absurd. I fully accept that you cant stop a suicide bomber, but the last couple of years across Europe has demonstrated that a terrorist is far more likely to drive a vehicle into a crowd.

If the Police in Nice hadn't been armed and killed the nutter in the truck, he may have killed hundreds.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"These things actually reflect well on the political parties in how they are seen to deal with them. With an imminent general election, this was a dream ticket for Theresa May."

I agree.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"These things actually reflect well on the political parties in how they are seen to deal with them. With an imminent general election, this was a dream ticket for Theresa May.

I agree. "

quite convenient that innit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well...at least this is all distracting people from the fact our government are ok with, for a multitude of reasons that have sod all to do with terrorists, our children not being able to eat or being made homeless on a daily basis eh?

The day before yesterday Mrs May was squirming under the spotlight for having made various uturns and changing her manifesto - unheard of - that's all gone and largely forgotten.

Also "sending them back" won't solve the problem. People get angry when there is inequality in society. "

I hate that the real reasons things are fucked up are mostly ignored and ridiculous scapegoats are used to blame it on instead....people need to open their eyes!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen? "

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre "

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who is this 'they'?

The "They" in this context sounds like the government, the police and the media.

This and all other attacks are all being spun so as to blame Muslims in general.

This only serves to stir up racial hatred towards other Muslims in the UK, making it easier for these organizations to recruit and adding fuelling their hatred of the west.

It seems that the lessons we learnt from the 1970s when we had the IRA bombs going off on a regular basis have been forgotten.

We are playing into the hands of terrorism by giving terrorists the publicity and disruption that they want.

Frankly if anyone needs to integrate, it's us who need to learn to integrate with the rest of the world and not try to force our ideas on other civilisations.

Before we interfere with people getting killed abroad how about considering domestic violence at home first?

"

I havnt seen any spin suggesting that Muslims in general are to blame. Quite the opposite, there were Muslims at the vigil in Manchester and they were welcomed, I didn't see them being outcast or blamed in anyway. The wider public are bright enough to know the difference between a Muslim and a Muslim extremist. Blaming "us" for lack of integration is nonsense and I don't see how domestic violence has got anything to do with this subject. The fact is a radicalised home grown Muslim decided to blow himself up to kill and maim innocent kids, yet you think that is our own fault?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith. "

Going point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith. "

You do know who it is that ISIS kill mainly, don't you?

Can't make my mind up if this is brilliant satire or the dumbest thing I've read on here (and it's got some shit to go up against on that score)

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"The idea that armed officers cant save lives is absurd. I fully accept that you cant stop a suicide bomber, but the last couple of years across Europe has demonstrated that a terrorist is far more likely to drive a vehicle into a crowd.

If the Police in Nice hadn't been armed and killed the nutter in the truck, he may have killed hundreds. "

It's not as simple as that:

True: European police have shot those such as the truck attackers; but by and large;

The chance of an armed officer actually being somewhere at the time and place that an attack like Manchester happens is less than 1%

The chance that he can actually clearly ID an attacker is less than 1%

The chance that he can return fire with a clear sight line; with no danger of hitting someone else is less than 1%

The chance that he will actually hit his target is between 1 and 10%.

That means that the reality is that in 0.00001% of cases will an armed officer actually be effective.

And you have to be a really expert marksman. That's like 1% of the potential population.

Armed police do shoot quite a few people: but almost all are in static siege type,situations, or pre-planned operations, where they are completely,ready and prepared.

The police who shot the Westminster knife attacker were top end bodyguard/ escort,officers; already on high alert, so they were already ready to go.

FormNorthern Ireland tours;'we,did 6 months of intensive immersion training: even then , we seldom fired, and seldom were in a position to do so, even when directly attacked. And if fire was returned, we seldom got a " confirmed" hit.

So armed police/army are in reality, not much good except as a deterrent; and the type of terrorist we face is not easily deterred, anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith.

You do know who it is that ISIS kill mainly, don't you?

Can't make my mind up if this is brilliant satire or the dumbest thing I've read on here (and it's got some shit to go up against on that score)"

Not dumb at all, there have been numerous accounts of terrorists letting people live if they can quote the qoran. The facts don't lie. What goes on in Syria, Iraq and other places is a different kettle of fish to what goes on in Europe. Remind me the last time a mosque was targeted by IS in Europe.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i don't mind the army being in policing roles on the streets if it lets those more specialised trained go off and do what they need to do...

its about being practical...

you have the fa cup final and the rugby final in london on the same weekend...

you have the scottish cup final...

you have other big concert and sporting events....

in probably wont make a lot of difference on a thursday or a friday..... but it will help with resources and allow people to do what they need to do on a bank holiday weekend!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith.

You do know who it is that ISIS kill mainly, don't you?

Can't make my mind up if this is brilliant satire or the dumbest thing I've read on here (and it's got some shit to go up against on that score)

Not dumb at all, there have been numerous accounts of terrorists letting people live if they can quote the qoran. The facts don't lie. What goes on in Syria, Iraq and other places is a different kettle of fish to what goes on in Europe. Remind me the last time a mosque was targeted by IS in Europe. "

I could find two reported instances, one in Bangladesh, one in Kenya (neither of which were in Europe, neither of which were ISIS).

I'll take some citations from more trusted sources than The Daily Star, The Mirror and a right-wing blog for any more you might have.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"those callous murdering wankers are trying to destroy with their Draconian & hatred ways

Hear hear. I hate it. They refuse to integrate ...

Who are 'they' exactly? The bomber was a British citizen born here, raised here and by all accounts, until fairly recently, an integrated citizen.

Who is this 'they'?

The bomber was a terrorist, that's it. His religion, beliefs and all other things aren't really important, I cannot remember us deporting Catholics after the IRA bomb the UK on more than one occasion.

This is a horrible person who wanted to kill people to cause tears is society for his own disillusioned reasons. We must all come together, not try and find reasons to divide even further.

"They" are the individuals/groups of people who have a different view in the world in which we should live in. "They" are the individuals/groups who are responsible for what happened Monday nights - they are small cells of radicals that are funded by evil & money - the government/MI 5/GCHQ know exactly what is going on or they wouldn't have increased the threat level - this does not happen on a whim. This is intelligence through what our security services have gained - you think the army on the streets is precautionary - not a chance!

if they know what's going on, why did manchester happen?

As this will be a new cell they've just discovered & would have found intelligence to suggest more acts are going to happen - hence the threat level being raised! - this is why it's been raised & the army on our streets - not for a good promotional advert for the election campaign - the thread is out there it was only a matter of time before something like this happened - personally I always thought they would have hit the Trafford centre

I think far too many Muslims frequent the Trafford centre, as seen in attacks elsewhere, such as Paris, people have been left to live if they have roved they are Muslim by reciting the qoran, I don't think the extremists would target a place with a high chance of blowing up their own faith.

You do know who it is that ISIS kill mainly, don't you?

Can't make my mind up if this is brilliant satire or the dumbest thing I've read on here (and it's got some shit to go up against on that score)

Not dumb at all, there have been numerous accounts of terrorists letting people live if they can quote the qoran. The facts don't lie. What goes on in Syria, Iraq and other places is a different kettle of fish to what goes on in Europe. Remind me the last time a mosque was targeted by IS in Europe.

I could find two reported instances, one in Bangladesh, one in Kenya (neither of which were in Europe, neither of which were ISIS).

I'll take some citations from more trusted sources than The Daily Star, The Mirror and a right-wing blog for any more you might have."

Well bully for you, I don't need to justify myself to you or trawl the internet to find proof of my point. I can recall several such instances, one was a cafe in Paris for instance, there have been others. In any case, it's a forum, people put their views across, I put mine across, choose to ignore it if you like, I'm not really arsed either way. I stand by my theory of why places populated with high volumes of Muslims arn't targeted. You stand by yours.

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