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NLP - experiences

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Neuro Linguistic Programming for those uninitiated

I'll preface this with: so far I've read one book so I'm no expert. But I am open minded and the point of this is to get some sort of discussion going. It was partly prompted by the grumpy people thread.

Having had a conversation with a fellow forumite around the area of the 'Law of Abundance', I started having a look at this area. It's always been something that I've thought of as probable bullshit.

However, the book that I read was supposedly a good intro to NLP and while some of it made me go , some of it really made sense.

Tying this to the grumpy thread and annoying people? One of the concepts was that we see the world with our own 'map' based on our experiences and the information that we have. My map will, therefore, differ from all of yours but in some places will overlap. For example, coming back from the Tea Party, I started reading Hatters posts in his accent and several others expressed the same thing. Our maps intersect with the same information.

Oftentimes when we disagree with someone over something, it is really down to the fact that our map and that persons map doesn't intersect fully. So, for example, we may be considering a project and with my map, I can see it is a nonstarter. But the other person may not have all of the information that I have so sees it as exciting. That isn't their fault and NLP practices say that expanding their map to match mine would be better than just dismissing them as stupid or crazy.

To do this though you need to acknowledge that the maps are different and this requires not getting steamed up in the first place.

This can also apply to someone who is grumpy. We don't have the info that they do and so we don't necessarily know why they are grumpy. If you take a moment to think about this, it can often drop your own frustration level and allow you to communicate with them rather than just reflect the grumpiness back.

Anyway. Has anyone else looked in to NLP and it's various practices? Have you found any that were helpful and any that just didn't resonate at all?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Quite a lot of it makes me go but I also get the bits that make sense. I have attended a number of NLP workshops and courses over the years (not all billed as NLP, but it soon becomes apparent).

The grumpy thread, and the ones on glass half full/empty remind me of the away and towards focus of different people that NLP talks about. It's just a matter of finding the right language to understand each other.

Then again, I often feel that someone is trying to play me when I hear NLP speak trying to convince me to do something.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Then again, I often feel that someone is trying to play me when I hear NLP speak trying to convince me to do something.

"

I can understand that. Unless you use that sort of language completely normally, it would come across as odd.

Thanks for the input - very helpful

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"

Then again, I often feel that someone is trying to play me when I hear NLP speak trying to convince me to do something.

I can understand that. Unless you use that sort of language completely normally, it would come across as odd.

Thanks for the input - very helpful "

I haven't met anyone that uses the language completely normally. Even the NLP practioners I have met seem to slip in and out of using it. That's what makes me wary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've also learned quite a bit about NLP through my line of work - and agree so much with the of a lot of it, but the 'aaaaahh' that's a good way to frame/position that idea and like anything, I think it's about taking the aspects that resonate and work for you - and allowing others to do the same, it is simply another tool. It's the kinda absolute prescriptive commitment to one tool that makes me feel a bit wary of some NLP practitioners, but I'd feel similarly about anyone that felt they had the 'one true' way of doing/thinking about something.

I find it a useful thing to draw on, but then again I like learning/thinking about anything that is posited around the workings of interpersonal interactions -- which is why I do the work I do.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've also learned quite a bit about NLP through my line of work - and agree so much with the of a lot of it, but the 'aaaaahh' that's a good way to frame/position that idea and like anything, I think it's about taking the aspects that resonate and work for you - and allowing others to do the same, it is simply another tool. It's the kinda absolute prescriptive commitment to one tool that makes me feel a bit wary of some NLP practitioners, but I'd feel similarly about anyone that felt they had the 'one true' way of doing/thinking about something.

I find it a useful thing to draw on, but then again I like learning/thinking about anything that is posited around the workings of interpersonal interactions -- which is why I do the work I do. "

Thank you all useful stuff as always.

I've grabbed a different book from the library to have a nose through and will see what I think once I have some more info to go on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I studied it in depth as a method for personal development during my masters degree. As such I took a critically reflective approach to its use. I found many things very useful and they eventually became unconsciously part of my skill set. However I use so many other things that my use of NLP wouldn't be noticeable unless you were modelling my behaviour through an NLP lens. I don't use the language but do hold the presuppositions as an useful assumptive framework.

I have seen some amazing things done by masters in the field. (I don't mean Master Practitioners that have done a two week course)

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I met an NLP practitioner a few years back and thought there was no way I could work with him. And we weren't even talking abut NLP

It's not a subject I know more than a few crumbs about, but training your mind to work for you rather than against you does work

Along these lines is this TED talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phcDQ0H_LnY about using your body to train your mind positively.

I'm in the Law of Attraction/Abundance camp. I follow a few principles and they work. Is it coincidence, all in my head? I don't care if it's working for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" So, for example, we may be considering a project and with my map, I can see it is a nonstarter. But the other person may not have all of the information that I have so sees it as exciting. That isn't their fault and NLP practices say that expanding their map to match mine would be better than just dismissing them as stupid or crazy.

"

Normally I find that the person who does not have all of the information, is typically the person in charge of the project.

No amount of NLP is going to work on someone promoted to their level of their incompetence. Plus Ambiguity in language and non-verbal communication are the cornerstones of great middle management.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" So, for example, we may be considering a project and with my map, I can see it is a nonstarter. But the other person may not have all of the information that I have so sees it as exciting. That isn't their fault and NLP practices say that expanding their map to match mine would be better than just dismissing them as stupid or crazy.

Normally I find that the person who does not have all of the information, is typically the person in charge of the project.

No amount of NLP is going to work on someone promoted to their level of their incompetence. Plus Ambiguity in language and non-verbal communication are the cornerstones of great middle management.

"

Rant day is Thursday

But I get where you are coming from

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.

Ah, this must be what you were referring to earlier.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Ah, this must be what you were referring to earlier. "

It is yes. I didn't want to try to regurgitate the whole book though

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's interesting as a field but it often gets stripped-down to what some - I think mistakenly - perceive to be its bare bones, of a bunch of tricks. Its premise was around excellence, I believe, as an open system that incorporates what works from any other field within an NLP framework. That reflects how Ye Olde WD was using it, I think I understand from what he described.

A key element would also be gaining unconscious mastery of any part of it - that would probably mean that if we notice someone using something from it that they're probably not there, are doing something oddly or are perhaps being manipulative.

I've seen it via my professional life and as a copious reader have read a lot upon it.

I've met some people that have been involved with it too, all very different from each other. I don't mind someone trying something out overtly and we will all influence each other anyway, so if it's not coercive or pressured, I'm mostly okay with it.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"It's interesting as a field but it often gets stripped-down to what some - I think mistakenly - perceive to be its bare bones, of a bunch of tricks. Its premise was around excellence, I believe, as an open system that incorporates what works from any other field within an NLP framework. That reflects how Ye Olde WD was using it, I think I understand from what he described.

A key element would also be gaining unconscious mastery of any part of it - that would probably mean that if we notice someone using something from it that they're probably not there, are doing something oddly or are perhaps being manipulative.

I've seen it via my professional life and as a copious reader have read a lot upon it.

I've met some people that have been involved with it too, all very different from each other. I don't mind someone trying something out overtly and we will all influence each other anyway, so if it's not coercive or pressured, I'm mostly okay with it. "

Good points. I do groan when i hear "oh that's that thing if you look up and left you are lying". No that's scientifically provable bullshit.

It's annoying because there is plently of scientifically provable correct things in NLP that can be very valuable to everyday life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's interesting as a field but it often gets stripped-down to what some - I think mistakenly - perceive to be its bare bones, of a bunch of tricks. Its premise was around excellence, I believe, as an open system that incorporates what works from any other field within an NLP framework. That reflects how Ye Olde WD was using it, I think I understand from what he described.

A key element would also be gaining unconscious mastery of any part of it - that would probably mean that if we notice someone using something from it that they're probably not there, are doing something oddly or are perhaps being manipulative.

I've seen it via my professional life and as a copious reader have read a lot upon it.

I've met some people that have been involved with it too, all very different from each other. I don't mind someone trying something out overtly and we will all influence each other anyway, so if it's not coercive or pressured, I'm mostly okay with it. "

That's a really good point. I'll comment further without the long quote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's really obvious someone is using NLP then they are just learning it or as Estelle says using it as a rather dogmatic prescription. If you feel manipulated by someone trying to use NLP then they haven't integrated the presuppositions into what they do.

Influencing another is only possible from a position of genuine rapport. Then it is mutual not one way (manipulation). Rapport opens all involved to being influenced by each other. When this happens transformational outcomes are possible. Alternatively in a therapeutic situation it may appear a more one way form of influence however the practitioner is using lots of sensory feedback from the client to adjust their approach so it works for the client. So again mutuality and a psychological contract for the work are a key component legitimising this form of influence.

Someone who has integrated NLP into their way of working is not obvious because it is just the way they do stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


" "

Yeah, that's kind of summed up my feelings towards it generally. I've yet to meet or read someone who hasn't made it obvious when they're NLPing.

I'm not sure if it's because I've had to look at in depth. Or if it's because the practitioners I've met and courses I've been on haven't resonated with me - as Lickety mentioned earlier I've also yet to come across anyone who can use the language naturally.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

Read about it in the context of picking up women. Didn't seem right and a bit creepy in that context so didn't look into it anymore deeply.

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.

Oh and a good old as well. Can't forget that one.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think the more negative perceptions of it relate largely to people picking a bit out from a toolkit, rather than having as Ye OWD refers to having integrated it within themselves.

We do influence people - negatively and positively - so it would seem sensible to want to be more of the latter rather than being repulsive. Our influence may just be a warmth or creatin ill ease in others.

I think it's an area that's diverse, potentially not simple to explain and sum up and someone who's learned, very basically, just a small bit, won't likely be close to having the art of it mastered. It would be a bit like having watched a 5 minutes youtube clip and declaring yourself a rocket scientist, car mechanic etc, who would themselves have an instinctive ability to just do what works in their field. One can't read a few words of religious text and be the Buddha (I assume), likewise most areas of life.

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.

But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous. "

Totally agree on your second point. There's a lot of pseudo-scientific armchair psychology bullshit floating around in the world of business and politics, and I think it can be quite harmful.

I've worked in a lot of call centres and it's rife in that sector.

And anytime I've questioned it, it's always along the lines of 'Well you're not a professional/graduate/manager, so you wouldn't understand'

No I'm not any of those things, but my brain is wired in such a way that I'm resistant to group think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to self improvement.

Kinky minx touched upon this before, I've gone out of my way to change my thoughts to influence my behaviour, and vice versa. And to improve my emotional intelligence.

But NLP seems so sinister, it's up there with Scientology.

And it's in marked contrast to something like that cognitive behaviour therapy, which I've gone through and found useful.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Totally agree on your second point. There's a lot of pseudo-scientific armchair psychology bullshit floating around in the world of business and politics, and I think it can be quite harmful.

I've worked in a lot of call centres and it's rife in that sector.

And anytime I've questioned it, it's always along the lines of 'Well you're not a professional/graduate/manager, so you wouldn't understand'

No I'm not any of those things, but my brain is wired in such a way that I'm resistant to group think.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to self improvement.

Kinky minx touched upon this before, I've gone out of my way to change my thoughts to influence my behaviour, and vice versa. And to improve my emotional intelligence.

But NLP seems so sinister, it's up there with Scientology.

And it's in marked contrast to something like that cognitive behaviour therapy, which I've gone through and found useful. "

Its neither inherently good nor bad, Its like artificial intelligence in the sense it can be used for either.

NLP could be used by police to spot signs of deception and solve a crime. Equally it could help someone get away with a crime by making them more convincing liars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous. "

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title "

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

"

I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I did the Practitioner certificate about 30 years ago and found it interesting in some ways but very manipulative and potentially dangerous in others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't"

*disconfirming evidence

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't"

I still stand by my point. Your point is that you've seen these things and found them to be mastery. Many have told me about these people with great mastery (they were waxed about as lyrically as you have here), I've met them - zilch apart from the eyeball pain of eyerolling.

I'm not sceptical to NLP Masters. I'm sceptical about NLP.

We'll agree to disagree; your belief is as set as my scepticism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't

I still stand by my point. Your point is that you've seen these things and found them to be mastery. Many have told me about these people with great mastery (they were waxed about as lyrically as you have here), I've met them - zilch apart from the eyeball pain of eyerolling.

I'm not sceptical to NLP Masters. I'm sceptical about NLP.

We'll agree to disagree; your belief is as set as my scepticism. "

Fair enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I kind of fell into NLP about 15 years ago, along with cold reading etc. I think I got good at it as it as I could influence and anticipate behaviour well in others. Done well it's definitely not bullshit. To be honest it got quite funny. I think I lost/forgot a lot though, after reading this thread I think I'm going to go get some books. Any suggestions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or maybe I haven't forgot and the kind of things I used to have to think about doing are now just part of my everyday life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't"

I'm inclined to think that these 'Masters' are just naturally gifted at manipulating and influencing people. So very charming, good looking or even borderline psychopaths, lol.

It's like how you can perhaps teach most people to play the violin, or write computer code. Some will take to it very well, others will struggle.

But unlike playing an instrument or coding, it still sounds like bollocks.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks to all who have waded in. I went to bed last night thinking it had died.

As I said, I'm open minded about all of this and hearing from both sides is really useful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't

I'm inclined to think that these 'Masters' are just naturally gifted at manipulating and influencing people. So very charming, good looking or even borderline psychopaths, lol.

It's like how you can perhaps teach most people to play the violin, or write computer code. Some will take to it very well, others will struggle.

But unlike playing an instrument or coding, it still sounds like bollocks. "

This wasn't really about influence, this was the use of it to help individuals solve, seemingly to them, intractable problems in minutes. To cure phobias in minutes. To help someone who was short sighted to see much more clearly without glasses. This was extraordinary use of their skills.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But what if you've met those who are considered to be some of the commonly viewed as leading 'Masters' from the academy and were genuinely put out by the obvious mirroring and matching that went on to name a few?

It's very easy to say that if someone dislikes an aspect of something it's because they have experienced it from a novice but that's rather dismissive and presumptuous.

Like you I'm sceptical about 'Masters' from NLP academies.,However I have experienced those I consider to have mastery in this field and the results are startling. There are also novices who display mastery. Mastery, for me, is seen in the effortless ease thT do what they do. Not because someone has the title

And my point (which I think you're well aware of) is that this mastery simply hasn't shown itself to be so to me. You evidently place belief in it, I clearly don't. There is no effortless ease for me. I'm not sure if it's because, as another poster said, the group think doesn't work me.

Please don't patronise me by assuming that I think just because someone has a title bestowed upon them they are that 'thing'.

I wasn't intending to patronise I was in a way agreeing with your point. I find those professing to be NLP Masters quite mechanical too. However I've also witnessed people who display real mastery in this field and was startled by the difference and the effortless ease that they did what they did. That meant I have seen both confirming and did confirming evidence of what you say. One thing I will add is that those I experienced displaying had many more strings to their bow than just NLP. That said because NLP is the study of excellence, their excellence could have been learned using NLP. However I know for a fact it wasn't

I'm inclined to think that these 'Masters' are just naturally gifted at manipulating and influencing people. So very charming, good looking or even borderline psychopaths, lol.

It's like how you can perhaps teach most people to play the violin, or write computer code. Some will take to it very well, others will struggle.

But unlike playing an instrument or coding, it still sounds like bollocks.

This wasn't really about influence, this was the use of it to help individuals solve, seemingly to them, intractable problems in minutes. To cure phobias in minutes. To help someone who was short sighted to see much more clearly without glasses. This was extraordinary use of their skills. "

Well OK, but most people's responses on here are about the influencing part. So I'm responding to them.

As for curing phobias and what have you?

https://youtu.be/4pQcn2L65J0

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Some good discussion here. It's pretty diverse, from what I've learned of it, so hard to sum it up in a nutshell. I can see how it's viewed as containing elements that could be used to influence others, with that borderline area of manipulation - because elements of it have been incorporated within business training for management, sales, communication etc.

I'm a sceptic by nature and dislike group think, anything remotely akin to a cult. It may be that people who are focused on making money from it, wanting adulation as some type of guru etc, are the very same types of people who could appear cold and sinister in whatever they do - they'll probably be styling themselves as masters, as I find real leaders of people and the very gifted generally don't big themselves up.

I'm ok with potentially being an expert in one field, rather than having a finger in many pies but I've rather catholic tastes and like to learn broadly. So it's not an area that I would devote myself to, merely finding it fascinating and having potential benefit for many things.

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