FabSwingers.com forum: Skydiving benefit cheat

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

A woman who was filmed skydiving while claiming sickness benefits has been handed a suspended jail term.

Clare Jones, 38, from Tonypandy, Rhondda, claimed she could only walk 25 metres without crutches, only to be filmed skydiving out of a plane at 12,000 ft (3,657m).

Jones admitted fraudulently claiming £891 in incapacity benefits and £5,125 in disability living allowance.

Jones was told she would have gone to prison without a guilty plea.

Pontypridd magistrate Virginia Osbourne said: "The courts and society take a very dim _iew of this type of fraud.".

Jones' 12-week sentence was suspended for 12 months.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-13990987

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Well…. Because I haven’t walked a mile in her shoes and I have no idea of her circumstances, I don’t see how I can comment! She may have been forced at gunpoint to make that jump! And all those visits to the Gym, she could have just gone there for a cup of coffee! And why shouldn’t she go out dancing? Everyone needs an outlet. She may have had a sporadic bad back! It may only have been every now and then!!

Those who saw her?? Just judgmental arses who have no idea what she is going through… Oh hang on… I think that was a judgment!!

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Well…. Because I haven’t walked a mile in her and I have no idea of her circumstances, I don’t see how I can comment! She may have been forced at gunpoint to make that jump! And all those visits to the Gym, she could have just gone there for a cup of coffee! And why shouldn’t she go out dancing? Everyone needs an outlet. She may have had a sporadic bad back! It may only have been every now and then!!

Those who saw her?? Just judgmental arses who have no idea what she is going through… Oh hang on… I think that was a judgment!!

Serious question, bad lady claims money fraudelently, other than that is there anything else to say?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There must be other reasons why she was court because i have seen disabled people sky dive a few times i have jumped out of the same planes of them so the must have seen her doing other things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there are people doing much much much worse things with tax payers money, who arent on benefits lol

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"There must be other reasons why she was court because i have seen disabled people sky dive a few times i have jumped out of the same planes of them so the must have seen her doing other things"

TY, i did wonder if u could ,cos i have a couple of friends who are disabled and far more adventurous than me. i could totally ssee them sky diving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if she was skydiving she wouldn't really have to walk anywhere

i think gravity would take care of any movement for her

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*Drops in... To see what is happening...*

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Beware, the right wing coalition government is doing all it can to turn people against each other. I don't buy into their trying to stir hatred up, and encourage others to keep an open mind, as we never really know someone's situation, just via media reports (remember, most of the media is also right wing, and would love nothing more than to reduce worker's rights, have a non-existent welfare state etc).

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"There must be other reasons why she was court because i have seen disabled people sky dive a few times i have jumped out of the same planes of them so the must have seen her doing other things"

I guess it depends if she landed on her cutches or not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"if she was skydiving she wouldn't really have to walk anywhere

i think gravity would take care of any movement for her

"
she said she has a sore back

that makes you unfit to do anything such as an extreme sport

you need keep yer back straight

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Slightly off topic but along the same lines....

Just been a report on the local news about a woman who kept her 90-odd year old Mothers dead body in the house for 6 months so that she could carry on claiming her pension

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Slightly off topic but along the same lines....

Just been a report on the local news about a woman who kept her 90-odd year old Mothers dead body in the house for 6 months so that she could carry on claiming her pension

and she was only found out when she took her on a charity skydive !

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

"Slightly off topic but along the same lines....

Just been a report on the local news about a woman who kept her 90-odd year old Mothers dead body in the house for 6 months so that she could carry on claiming her pension

and she was only found out when she took her on a charity skydive !"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only in the bloody Rhondda....

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"Well…. Because I haven’t walked a mile in her shoes and I have no idea of her circumstances, I don’t see how I can comment! She may have been forced at gunpoint to make that jump! And all those visits to the Gym, she could have just gone there for a cup of coffee! And why shouldn’t she go out dancing? Everyone needs an outlet. She may have had a sporadic bad back! It may only have been every now and then!!

Those who saw her?? Just judgmental arses who have no idea what she is going through… Oh hang on… I think that was a judgment!!

i dont understand your point she was convicted by her peers why do you need to walk in anyones shoes ?

she is guilty

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail."

for once wishy ,i totally agree !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those who saw her?? Just judgmental arses who have no idea what she is going through… Oh hang on… I think that was a judgment!!

i dont understand your point she was convicted by her peers why do you need to walk in anyones shoes ?

she is guilty

*Whoosh*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Only in the bloody Rhondda...."

... hard work keeping up with the Joneses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Only in the bloody Rhondda....

... hard work keeping up with the Joneses

Haha!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heard about this on the radio and it didn't say if she had to pay the money back or not. Anyone know if she does.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Beware, the right wing coalition government is doing all it can to turn people against each other. I don't buy into their trying to stir hatred up, and encourage others to keep an open mind, as we never really know someone's situation, just via media reports (remember, most of the media is also right wing, and would love nothing more than to reduce worker's rights, have a non-existent welfare state etc)."

Very true, for years there has been a witch hunt against the disabled,and the undue amount of media attention given to cases like this creates a belief that the majority of people claiming disability living allowance are fraudsters.

A friend who works with a links project recently attended a disability hate crime meeting.In northumberland over the past 10 tears attacks on the disabled have increased by 250%.They believe this is largely caused by the creation of a climate where disabled people are seen as spongers.

The current welfare reforms are opposed by every group working with disabled people.From mencap to the Cheshire homes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thinks she should get a job as an MP

She probably wouldn't have got such a sentance lol xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember the days we lived on a council estate and the controlling Labour party in Luton introduced an initiative that actually paid people for snitching on neighbours they suspected of benefit fraud. It set neighbour against neighbour regardless of whether one was a benefit cheat or not.

(Luton has always been a Labour-held unitary authority)

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I remember when we where teenagers we lived in some flats. There was alot of single mothers lived in them. Now there was a law at the time that you couldnt claim benefits and have a partner sleep over more than so many nights a week. Some of the women where always falling out and grassing/making up that women where breaking these rules everytime they had a fall out. Yes benefit cheats of any sort should be stopped but some of these policies that the goverment have/had are not always beneficial

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

Those who saw her?? Just judgmental arses who have no idea what she is going through… Oh hang on… I think that was a judgment!!

i dont understand your point she was convicted by her peers why do you need to walk in anyones shoes ?

she is guilty

*Whoosh* "

its double *whoosh* you failed to pick up the merest hint of irony with a smidgeon of sarcasm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(Luton has always been a Labour-held unitary authority)"

Divide n rule mayhaps..

Parasitical malarky..give her the streets to clean in winter..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(Luton has always been a Labour-held unitary authority)

Divide n rule mayhaps..

Parasitical malarky..give her the streets to clean in winter.."

If you did she would get another bad back lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(Luton has always been a Labour-held unitary authority)

Divide n rule mayhaps..

Parasitical malarky..give her the streets to clean in winter..

If you did she would get another bad back lol

haha yeah, yer have a point..not fergetting her human rights tehe

Broken Britain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it just get me that people cheat yet trip themselves up doing silly things like this.

i remember one guy claiming money for a bad injury yet was videoed installing sky tv dishes

cheeky buggers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most the media is right wing my hole!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Heard about this on the radio and it didn't say if she had to pay the money back or not. Anyone know if she does. "

I think she does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ............

i dont understand your point she was convicted by her peers why do you need to walk in anyones shoes ?

she is guilty

Was she 'convicted by here peers'? I understood she'd pled guilty. That's not the same thing at all - even if she is, in fact, guilty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail."

How long should her sentence have been? What would the cost of keeping her in jail for that time have been?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Oh I defo ain't gonna comment on this one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail.

How long should her sentence have been? What would the cost of keeping her in jail for that time have been?"

If sending a criminal to jail comes purely down to cost then maybe we should let them all go?

Murderers, rapists, paedos? It will cost far too much to imprison them so let's just let them all go if they promise not to do it again.

What message will we be sending out to people who know that they can rob the taxpayer blind and all they'll get is a smack on the wrists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As it happens, I don't believe cost should come into the equation either but Ken Clarke and his chums clearly do.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Thousands, if not Tens of thousands of people rob the taxpayer blind every day of the week when they avoid the payment of taxes.

And I'm not talking about the fatcats like Goldsmith who are 'Non-Doms'....just the many thousands who believe that a little fiddle here and there isn't doing any harm.

Benefit Cheats....Tax Avoiders

is one better than the other?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Thousands, if not Tens of thousands of people rob the taxpayer blind every day of the week when they avoid the payment of taxes.

And I'm not talking about the fatcats like Goldsmith who are 'Non-Doms'....just the many thousands who believe that a little fiddle here and there isn't doing any harm.

Benefit Cheats....Tax Avoiders

is one better than the other?"

just been out spending my tax rebate...... so not me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've read this thread with interest.

was what the woman did illegal? Yes

Morally dubious? again,yes

Cases like this crop up all the time and to me they all have one common factor.

I just can't get bent out of shape by it.people fiddle,some get caught.This woman got caught and has been punished as the law saw fit.

A boy of 16 was stabbed to death a mile from my house today. In the big scheme of things some woman fiddling 6 grand doesn't really bother me.

TBH I also tell (deductable)lies on my tax return. As Jane said so do a hell of a lot of other people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thousands, if not Tens of thousands of people rob the taxpayer blind every day of the week when they avoid the payment of taxes.

And I'm not talking about the fatcats like Goldsmith who are 'Non-Doms'....just the many thousands who believe that a little fiddle here and there isn't doing any harm.

Benefit Cheats....Tax Avoiders

is one better than the other?"

That's an interesting question. In the case of benefits cheats, clearly the tax payer is being defrauded.

i.e. funds are being misappropriated by those who don't need them. This is clearly economically inefficient.

On the other hand, a tax avoider/evader, doesn't necessarily have the same equivalence. If we are in a country where nobody pays tax, clearly this is a bad thing, roads don't get built, laws can't be passed or implementation etc etc

In that case, a benefit cheat and a tax defaulter are the same.

In the case where the state hoists excessive taxes on it's population however, that's an entirely different matter. The division of labour works geometrically, and a geometric process is commutative mathematically, so that a tax hike of 1% can destroy dramatically more wealth than the preceding tax hike of 1%.

Take Soviet Russia for example (tax being 100%). In their case, the Mafia were doing a public service by smuggling and setting up black markets. It had to have made the country more economically productive even if we cannot record the data.

So; there isn't a strict equivalence relationship between benefits cheats and tax evasion/avoidance. I'm not advocating tax evasion here, just pointing out the pros/cons.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thousands, if not Tens of thousands of people rob the taxpayer blind every day of the week when they avoid the payment of taxes.

And I'm not talking about the fatcats like Goldsmith who are 'Non-Doms'....just the many thousands who believe that a little fiddle here and there isn't doing any harm.

Benefit Cheats....Tax Avoiders

is one better than the other?

That's an interesting question. In the case of benefits cheats, clearly the tax payer is being defrauded.

i.e. funds are being misappropriated by those who don't need them. This is clearly economically inefficient.

................"

There's maybe a difference between "those who don't need them" and "those who aren't entitled to them" but lets leave that for now.

If we look at economically inefficient - just think for a minute what the trial cost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

And those accused of tax fraud can usually afford bigger lawyers.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

And incidentally....the reason I refrain from foaming at the mouth about benefit cheats is that like Tra Mar I too have sinned regarding my income tax return in the past.

I just wish more people would be honest about their own little sins before launching into attacks on benefit fraudsters.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

To me, your Right is my Left. To me the main distinctions between the sides are economic in nature, a process of accumulation vs the process of distribution. Words like Capitalism & Socialism are loaded with so much history they sometimes obscure real insights. For example; people in this country consider the BNP to be on the Right. This cannot be true for the simple reason that every single one of their economic policies is on the Far Left, they're on the brink of tippy-toeing into Nationalist/Communist terrorist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""they're on the brink of tippy-toeing into Nationalist/Communist terrorist.""

I meant "territory", not "terrorist", albeit it's oddly appropriate in the context. Freudian slip maybe.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

I fail to see what that has to do with benefit fraud or tax fraud.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

I fail to see what that has to do with benefit fraud or tax fraud....."

You say: "It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press".

I do not believe this for one minute.

The Telegraph is moderately right wing. Almost every other major newspaper I've read is on the Left.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

I fail to see what that has to do with benefit fraud or tax fraud.....

You say: "It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press".

I do not believe this for one minute.

The Telegraph is moderately right wing. Almost every other major newspaper I've read is on the Left."

So the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are Left Wing?.....and you are a student?

Not reading politics then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

I'd encourage anyone being seduced by this 'BNP are lefties' stuff to read their entire policy documents - the 4 separate ones for each of the home countries + Crime & Justice, Democracy, Economics, Education, Environment, Foreign Affairs, Health, Housing and Welfare and, of course, Immigration before making a decision.

It's all on their website.

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail."

Wishy, I love you! Sometimes I am not brave enough but here here, why should I be paying for these fraudsters???

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

What is the obsession with what papers people read?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail.

Wishy, I love you! Sometimes I am not brave enough but here here, why should I be paying for these fraudsters???

I'll ask you the questions I asked above.

How long should her sentence have been? What would the cost of keeping her in jail for that time have been?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is the obsession with what papers people read?"

It makes labelling (and maybe libelling) easier.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"What is the obsession with what papers people read?"

It's part of the debate we are having....

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"What is the obsession with what papers people read?

It's part of the debate we are having...."

I am sure you know it is used as a put down on many threads and not just this one.

Maybe the put downs can be replaced by adult debate instead...given that we are all meant to be adults.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"What is the obsession with what papers people read?

It's part of the debate we are having....

I am sure you know it is used as a put down on many threads and not just this one.

Maybe the put downs can be replaced by adult debate instead...given that we are all meant to be adults."

Are you suggesting that someone has used this to put anyone down on this thread?....I haven't seen it, all I have seen on this thread is adult debate.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Just to bring the thread up to date, this lady was caught not just on the detail that she was caught sky diving.

She had claimed benefits on the premise that she was A) incapable of walking more than a few yards without the aid of crutches; B), she'd a bad back which prevented herself staying upright for long periods, and collectively, she was incapable of working.

But due to a tip-off, the Benefits Fraud Squad investigated, and found she was capable of walking perfectly well, unaided. She also had a job in a Cafe, where she cooked and served meals from breakfast time to after lunch, which went against her claim she could only stand for short periods.

Her sentence was 12 months suspended, and she has been ordered to repay £5k.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Just to bring the thread up to date, this lady was caught not just on the detail that she was caught sky diving.

Her sentence was 12 months suspended, and she has been ordered to repay £5k."

And rightly so....

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"What is the obsession with what papers people read?

It's part of the debate we are having....

I am sure you know it is used as a put down on many threads and not just this one.

Maybe the put downs can be replaced by adult debate instead...given that we are all meant to be adults.

Are you suggesting that someone has used this to put anyone down on this thread?....I haven't seen it, all I have seen on this thread is adult debate."

I am sure you can figure out exactly what was written.

If you are having trouble mail us and I will explain further.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Theft.....end of

If ya gonna do the crime, you gotta do the time.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Thanks but I feel no need to write to you on this matter as I can't see a problem with the thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

I don't know what the economic policies of the BNP are,but I agree with you in that the main distinctions between the Left and Right are economic in nature. But they are not the sole ones. The phrase often used to sum up the differences is "co-operation or competition' and this encompasses more than just economic policies.

And no Marxist would accept that Nationalism is concomitant with the ideas of socialism and communism. "The Internationale unites the human race".

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By *opeye-OliveCouple
over a year ago

worcester

Hmm, let's all laugh at the stupid woman who defrauded us of a few quid. Helps us forget the banks who took Millions.

The government recently built a number of regional Fire Control centres around the country at a cost of £450,000,000. They will never be staffed, and never used. Nobody is going to prison.

Hey, but at least we got sky diving woman!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It should be pointed out that it was the Tories who took the decision to scrap the 9 Regional Fire Control Centres - the same Tories who scrapped the Nimrod MRA4s just before we discovered how much we need them.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"It should be pointed out that it was the Tories who took the decision to scrap the 9 Regional Fire Control Centres - the same Tories who scrapped the Nimrod MRA4s just before we discovered how much we need them."

Yes, but for Financial reasons; it was well past budget, and there were also safety considerations given one of the previous series had been involved in an accident, reasons unknown. So, the fleet was grounded pending primarily safety reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/07/11 22:46:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, it was (and I apologise in advance if I'm wrong - my knowledge of aeroplanes extends no further than jumping out of some of them) a previous generation of Nimrod, the MR2 (thanks Google), which was lost.

Does that mean the new version should be scrapped? The task remains.

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

the woman is certainly stopping someone else who really does need benefit...... she has to pay for what she has done

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"the woman is certainly stopping someone else who really does need benefit...... she has to pay for what she has done"

I agree she has to pay for her crime....but stopping someone else who needs benefits?

Don't get that....there isn't a waiting list.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

It's all on their website."

Economics is the substrate of Politics. You want me to waste my time reading what a collection of politicians opinions? Economics is what happens, politics is just a way at looking at that. You cannot be Left on Economists and Right on Politics or visa versa, it doesn't work like that. You can pretend, but reality eventually breaks through. See the Socialist government of Greece implementing pro-Capitalist reforms for example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

It's all on their website.

You're not reading PPE, are you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmm, let's all laugh at the stupid woman who defrauded us of a few quid. Helps us forget the banks who took Millions.

The government recently built a number of regional Fire Control centres around the country at a cost of £450,000,000. They will never be staffed, and never used. Nobody is going to prison.

Hey, but at least we got sky diving woman!

A few quid.

its because of people like this that makes it damned hard to get the benefits some people need to bloody live. battle after battle.

I wouldnt care is it was a quid or 5 grand. what she did was despicable and i hope to god she or anyone close doesnt becomes disabled and will need some help , because there wont be any ...all the cheats are taking it

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Unfortunately we don't live in Medieval England and there is no Robin Hood....

If you knowingly defraud the state by fiddling a tax return, even by a pound, then you are doing nothing worse (or better) than a benefit cheat.

It's just that as a society, particularly one with an overtly right wing press, tax fraud is somehow considered more pallatable than benefit fraud.

It isn't....it's all fraud.

I think it would be hard to understand each other without a qualifying statement here.

It's all on their website.

the greek government are being forced to do their cuts its part of the conditions forced on them if they want any more money to bail them out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail."

Yep then us tax payers could have paid for her to stay there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

Hey, but at least we got sky diving woman!

A few quid.

its because of people like this that makes it damned hard to get the benefits some people need to bloody live. battle after battle.

Are you including Tory tax dodgers amongst those cheats?

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"Yes, it was (and I apologise in advance if I'm wrong - my knowledge of aeroplanes extends no further than jumping out of some of them) a previous generation of Nimrod, the MR2 (thanks Google), which was lost.

Does that mean the new version should be scrapped? The task remains."

I only know about this matter as it was on our local BBC TV News programme this week; it covers Lincolnshire, where the Nimrods are based.

The New ones won't be flying again, ever; the last ones in use were decommissioned this week.

However, the RAF has ordered a fleet of the USAF equivalent, and already has their crews out in the States going through the complex processes of installing and training on all of the required IT and surveillance equipment, but this fleet won't be ready until early 2013.

Meanwhile, the RAF also has 3 of the USAF jets to use out above Libya, which they are using as an learning tool.

Does that help you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yup

anyone taking what they havent earned or is entitled to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail.

Yep then us tax payers could have paid for her to stay there "

That's the problem. It costs money to investigate her crime, money to mount a prosecution and money to hold a trial.

Did the public purse benefit from prosecuting her or was there perceived value in persecuting her?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the system sucks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are Left Wing?.....and you are a student?

Not reading politics then?

I explained my position on Right and Left to you partly because the Daily Mail and Express advocate policy ideas that are very Left wing indeed. Remember, I mean this economically. There is no right wing economist who advocates a no-immigration policy.

The policy of capitalism is the same as Adam Smith's description of it. Free markets, free speech and free labour. The last concerns social mobility and labour movement.

You'll notice that the Communists restrict the movement of their citizens for economic reasons (theirs). It is a hallmark of Communism that this is the case. The more capitalist a country is, the freer it's border controls within and without are.

The reason for this is simple; any distinction between people that isn't related to productivity e.g. racism, nationalism, class etc, leads to less restrictive counties having greater labour competition and thus higher levels of wealth generation. It's a very long term process, much like gravity it can be slow but undeniable.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"the system sucks

What system is that?.....the benefits system (if so why) or the criminal justice system?

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"the system sucks

What system is that?.....the benefits system (if so why) or the criminal justice system?"

Both, I'm afraid!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the system sucks

I would encourage you to watch this if you're despondent with the recent state of affairs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

In the long run, things are looking up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does that mean the new version should be scrapped? The task remains.

I only know about this matter as it was on our local BBC TV News programme this week; it covers Lincolnshire, where the Nimrods are based.

The New ones won't be flying again, ever; the last ones in use were decommissioned this week.

Meanwhile, the RAF also has 3 of the USAF jets to use out above Libya, which they are using as an learning tool.

Does that help you? "

Sorry. That should have read 'Does that mean the new version should HAVE BEEN scrapped?

I know about the US procurement but wonder, amongst other matters, who is protecting submarine activity in the area around HMNB Clyde in the meantime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good old Wills landing his big chopper to say Hi to Kate, your pennys paid for that stunt!!

Just an example, not too fusseed bout that cause "awww they are a lovely couple eh"?

But some work shy woman gettin caught?

Cool, lets lay into her?

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

So the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are Left Wing?.....and you are a student?

Not reading politics then?

The policy of capitalism is the same as Adam Smith's description of it. Free markets, free speech and free labour. The last concerns social mobility and labour movement.

Ye Gods, I'm glad I never went into Politics!

All the above, could you write that in Plain English please?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are Left Wing?.....and you are a student?

Not reading politics then?

The policy of capitalism is the same as Adam Smith's description of it. Free markets, free speech and free labour. The last concerns social mobility and labour movement.

Unrestricted immigration drives wages down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Good old Wills landing his big chopper to say Hi to Kate, your pennys paid for that stunt!!

Just an example, not too fusseed bout that cause "awww they are a lovely couple eh"?

But some work shy woman gettin caught?

Cool, lets lay into her?"

If he takes after his mother's husband - he's only got a wee chopper.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"the system sucks

What system is that?.....the benefits system (if so why) or the criminal justice system?"
both

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..and here was me thinking Ken Clarke's proposal to cut sentences for those who plead guilty had been rejected.

She defrauded the taxpayer by claiming money to which she wasn't entitled and she should have gone to jail.

Yep then us tax payers could have paid for her to stay there

That's the problem. It costs money to investigate her crime, money to mount a prosecution and money to hold a trial.

Did the public purse benefit from prosecuting her or was there perceived value in persecuting her?"

Hopefully in prosecuting her, some others doing the same will desist in commiting theft.

We cant keep saying that it costs this and that and let people get off with it.

If she went and mugged some disabled person in the street, opinions would be different,. well she did mug some disabled person of funds that she evidently didnt need and they struggle to get at the best of times.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple
over a year ago

North Cornwall

guilty as charged and walked away free. No shock there then.

Mistress x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the greek government are being forced to do their cuts its part of the conditions forced on them if they want any more money to bail them out."

Yes. They've been forced to kow-tow to Europe for their stupidity. I'm uncertain whether the bailout will work, they've already had one before. It's hard to change minds and hearts overnight, sometimes it takes an entirely new generation to start a new clean slate ideologically. Perhaps they should be cut loose entirely, "short term pain for long term gain". But I'm not sure. It's difficult to judge the situation.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Does that mean the new version should be scrapped? The task remains.

I only know about this matter as it was on our local BBC TV News programme this week; it covers Lincolnshire, where the Nimrods are based.

The New ones won't be flying again, ever; the last ones in use were decommissioned this week.

Meanwhile, the RAF also has 3 of the USAF jets to use out above Libya, which they are using as an learning tool.

Does that help you?

Sorry. That should have read 'Does that mean the new version should HAVE BEEN scrapped?

I know about the US procurement but wonder, amongst other matters, who is protecting submarine activity in the area around HMNB Clyde in the meantime."

The newer ones I saw on the BBC were still in bits, and the inference was that they will not reach the point that they'll be cleared for take-off.

GB has to wait for the Yanks equipment to arrive.

Meanwhile, if someone wants to train me on using an autogyro, and pay me, I'll patrol the skies, James Bond style

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

There is not a specific pot of money that pays Disablity Living Allowance recipients, one woman defrauding DLA will not impact upon another waiting to register a claim.

It's not a waiting list system...it's decided on individual personal needs, not dependent on how many claim DLA.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

Hopefully in prosecuting her, some others doing the same will desist in commiting theft.

We cant keep saying that it costs this and that and let people get off with it.

.............."

I get a bit worried by this argument because it sometimes involves the execution of a senior naval officer "pour encourager les autres".

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"guilty as charged and walked away free. No shock there then.

Mistress x"

Suspended Prison sentence and forced to pay back the benefits.....that's a succesful conviction, not walking away free.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet "

Well, another one appeared in court today, but he escaped a prison sentence, on the grounds that he is suffering from Depression!

Aw Diddums! Did some nasty men have a go at him?

But he was heavily fined, so I suppose, we aren't having to pay for him to spend his time in some cushy little "open prison".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is not a specific pot of money that pays Disablity Living Allowance recipients, one woman defrauding DLA will not impact upon another waiting to register a claim.

It's not a waiting list system...it's decided on individual personal needs, not dependent on how many claim DLA.

IDS may have a cunning plan to change that. I can see it becoming like the Social Fund. Once it's gone, it's gone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"guilty as charged and walked away free. No shock there then.

Mistress x

Suspended Prison sentence and forced to pay back the benefits.....that's a succesful conviction, not walking away free."

But did it need the expense and palaver of a trial. There was video evidence. She pled guilty.

Couldn't there have been a simpler, more cost-effective disposal?

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

when i was out of work i had to fight to get either income support/job seekers as i was told that i had capital..... what capital was all tied up in a divorce, how else was i supposed to survive with a daughter, i had never in my life claimed and yet when i needed the help i had to fight to get it

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"...........

Hey, but at least we got sky diving woman!

A few quid.

its because of people like this that makes it damned hard to get the benefits some people need to bloody live. battle after battle.

Are you including Tory tax dodgers amongst those cheats?"

I suppose it is usless reminding you that it is not just Tories who cheat the tax system! I know it ruins your continual pop at the Government, but really!!! Very many Labour people are very wealthy, and I'll bet do "creative Accounting"!

Take a look at the MP's who cheated on expenses. Out of those prosecuted, most seem to have been Labour!! In fact, it seems that the Champagne Socialists were the worst overall!

Correct me if I'm wrong!

But anyway, yes this woman deserved jail time! No matter that it costs us money to keep her, we have to punish the guilty! Or do we use the same excuse on murderers and rapists?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet "

No it worked!! Thats why we now have a tory/lib dem parliament, generally means we dont know who to trust or choose.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I think there is probably room for an alternative, few Tax return misrepresentations result in court cases....maybe now there is an argument for a similar penalty payment system that would avoid an expensive court case for many benefit cases?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"when i was out of work i had to fight to get either income support/job seekers as i was told that i had capital..... what capital was all tied up in a divorce, how else was i supposed to survive with a daughter, i had never in my life claimed and yet when i needed the help i had to fight to get it"

Is JSA means tested if you've paid enough NI contributions?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet

No it worked!! Thats why we now have a tory/lib dem parliament, generally means we dont know who to trust or choose."
certainly dont trust the torries,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet

No it worked!! Thats why we now have a tory/lib dem parliament, generally means we dont know who to trust or choose."

It's easier now. Just don't trust anyone on or behind the Treasury bench.

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple
over a year ago

North Cornwall

"guilty as charged and walked away free. No shock there then.

Mistress x

Suspended Prison sentence and forced to pay back the benefits.....that's a succesful conviction, not walking away free."

Hm. Being told not to break the law again.. or be punished and paying back money that was stolen in first place. Harsh! Not walked in her shoes but had some tough shoes in the past and still not stolen anything.

Mistress x

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet

No it worked!! Thats why we now have a tory/lib dem parliament, generally means we dont know who to trust or choose.certainly dont trust the torries, "

It's not just the Tories.

They're all the same, they've all got their snouts in the trough, from Local and Regional councils upwards and up to & including UK and MEP's.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

A suspended prison sentence isn't a slap on the wrist and a warning, it's a prison sentence that is suspended for a period of time....

Massive difference

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

.............

Take a look at the MP's who cheated on expenses. Out of those prosecuted, most seem to have been Labour!! In fact, it seems that the Champagne Socialists were the worst overall!

Correct me if I'm wrong! .."

I will.

The problem is that they weren't Champagne Socialists at all. They were people whose only income was their MPs salary - unlike many members of the benches opposite who were enjoying the income from company directorships at times when they should have been in the HoC representing the interests of their constituents - or who, like Cameron and Osborne (and others), are independently wealthy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unrestricted immigration drives wages down."

Yes it does. In the short term, the adjustment time depending on the volume of population shift involved.

However, this is well inside a decade.

Capitalism produces wealth via 2 basic methods, job losses/corporations going bust (natural selection) due to replacement by more efficient machines or better quality human labour,,

or else by the arbitrage of lower paid workers in one geographical area e.g. outsourcing.

That doesn't *sound* good to a typical reader, but it's the truth, and it is good. The reason is that more efficient working practices deliver higher volumes of capital, and somebody must buy that capital, and only the workers have enough money to be able to buy it all.

So; you see it is a closed loop system, what seems like a negative feedback (job losses) eventually rebounds back onto a society in the form of greater wealth.

Before anybody claims this 'wealth' is given solely to the rich, this is nonsense. The first thing the rich do when recieving this much capital, is reinvest it back into ever more efficient working practices, labour and machines. i.e. More jobs, more money.

It is as virtuous circle, that has only recently understood in human history, and most people still fail to get it. Perhaps the beauty of it all is that you don't need to be a capitalist for the system to work. If you have a bank account, save money, buy high quality goods at low prices, then you are enforcing capitalism even if you are avowed against it in your talk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is all very good catching them

but what about the scandal of the mps expenses then

notice how they have gone quiet

No it worked!! Thats why we now have a tory/lib dem parliament, generally means we dont know who to trust or choose.certainly dont trust the torries,

It's not just the Tories.

They're all the same, they've all got their snouts in the trough, from Local and Regional councils upwards and up to & including UK and MEP's.

They're NOT all the same. The ones we get to hear about share similar weaknesses.

Most elected representatives go about their business honestly and fairly and never attract comment, for good or ill, in the media.

Being a back-bench MP is a shitty job. The money is crap and, depending on where you live/ represent, you spend days away from home and family.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

[Removed by poster at 01/07/11 23:32:35]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

There was a call a couple of years ago from an independent working party for MP's to be awarded a larger salary in line with other top professionals, in return their expenses would all but dissappear.

One of the provisos of such a scheme would be that outside financial interests such as paid directorships would be outlawed for MP's....

Guess which one of the three main parties said they WOULD NEVER accept such changes to the position of MP?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.............

............."

How do more machines = more jobs? The history of mechanisation is one of job redundancies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ye Gods, I'm glad I never went into Politics!

All the above, could you write that in Plain English please?

I think you are maybe joking me, but I'll reply anyway. It is difficult to be concise sometimes, but here's an attempt:

If we are (1) able to buy and sell with one another with few restrictions, (2) allow information/ideas to be talked about amongst ourselves without restrictions and lastly we permit (3) the movement of individuals inside and outside the country with close to complete freedom, then, we will be far far richer in the long term.

There are caveats, but that's basically it.

This is the holy trinity of capitalism.

Free Markets.

Free Speech.

Free Labour.

It's all right there in the Wealth of Nations, the book that founded our economic system (think Das Kapital, only for the capitalists!).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.............

How do more machines = more jobs? The history of mechanisation is one of job redundancies."

That's right we agree, but I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying about this.

Machines destroy old jobs e.g. buggy and horsewhip corporations are seldom in existence these days. And they create new industries e.g. the car industry.

So, on one hand capitalism destroys, that's the Natural Selection part of its evolution, and on the other hand it shapes entirely new industries into being. So; we're not comparing the same jobs.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

did Communism win.

i only ask,because we cant get up china's arse far enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.............

How do more machines = more jobs? The history of mechanisation is one of job redundancies.

That's right we agree, but I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying about this.

Machines destroy old jobs e.g. buggy and horsewhip corporations are seldom in existence these days. And they create new industries e.g. the car industry.

So, on one hand capitalism destroys, that's the Natural Selection part of its evolution, and on the other hand it shapes entirely new industries into being. So; we're not comparing the same jobs.

No, we're not. But if we're comparing the number of people employed - jobs and skills are invariably lost in the process of mechanisation.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"did Communism win.

i only ask,because we cant get up china's arse far enough.

Yes they won 2-1 after extra time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"did Communism win.

i only ask,because we cant get up china's arse far enough.

Camoron tried really, REALLY, hard the other day.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"did Communism win.

i only ask,because we cant get up china's arse far enough.

Yes they won 2-1 after extra time"

b****** i had 2 quid on 2-1 after 90 minutes.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Ye Gods, I'm glad I never went into Politics!

All the above, could you write that in Plain English please?

I think you are maybe joking me, but I'll reply anyway. It is difficult to be concise sometimes, but here's an attempt:

There are caveats, but that's basically it.

This is the holy trinity of capitalism.

Free Markets.

Free Speech.

Free Labour.

It's all right there in the Wealth of Nations, the book that founded our economic system (think Das Kapital, only for the capitalists!)."

Well, though I was trying to put over my question is a semi light hearted way, I was serious over what you'd originally said.

So, you explained it in simpler terms. Wonderful!

So, why the devil couldn't you have said it in that simplified format to begin with??

These long screeds of data just make me switch off!

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

[Removed by poster at 01/07/11 23:49:10]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.............

How do more machines = more jobs? The history of mechanisation is one of job redundancies.

That's right we agree, but I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying about this.

Machines destroy old jobs e.g. buggy and horsewhip corporations are seldom in existence these days. And they create new industries e.g. the car industry.

So, on one hand capitalism destroys, that's the Natural Selection part of its evolution, and on the other hand it shapes entirely new industries into being. So; we're not comparing the same jobs.

No, we're not. But if we're comparing the number of people employed - jobs and skills are invariably lost in the process of mechanisation."

Of course. Take woodcraft for example. Once everyone had to pay a craftsmen to create a product. It was expensive but generally decent quality from a guild standard. Today everyone in the West can easily purchase furniture made by machine, it is very cheap, easily obtainable etc. However tens of thousands of excellent craftsmen lost their jobs at some point and had to go job seeking.

Nevertheless, it is Net benefit to society. The volumes of furniture at their various qualities can't possibly be created on such a scale by hand-craft.

Craftsmen still exist for the wealthy as they always have done, they're just very very expensive for an ordinary person.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Text books always use big words.....

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"Text books always use big words....."

Except "Ladybird" Series of books.

I like them!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Text books always use big words....."

Txt bks alwys u's bg wrds. Yeah?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ye Gods, I'm glad I never went into Politics!

All the above, could you write that in Plain English please?

I think you are maybe joking me, but I'll reply anyway. It is difficult to be concise sometimes, but here's an attempt:

There are caveats, but that's basically it.

This is the holy trinity of capitalism.

Free Markets.

Free Speech.

Free Labour.

It's all right there in the Wealth of Nations, the book that founded our economic system (think Das Kapital, only for the capitalists!).

Well, though I was trying to put over my question is a semi light hearted way, I was serious over what you'd originally said.

So, you explained it in simpler terms. Wonderful!

So, why the devil couldn't you have said it in that simplified format to begin with??

These long screeds of data just make me switch off!

The problem is likely that I'm essentially talking to myself in a sense. Posting on forums is like "thinking out loud" for me, such as the way in which some people talk or mutter under their breath when they are thinking about something. I don't necessarily care or think about how the information is received by others as a result. If you were sitting in front of me I would probably talk differently, but being online makes it harder to reveal a context in which the other's are seeing things e.g. that is why emoticons exist like this

and

I read a lot of books, and thus a lot of what is seemingly technobabble can infiltrate my everyday speech and writing.

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

I don't teach people Economics or Computation, but if I did, I would probably be a more lucid conversationalist as a result.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Takes me back to my student days....when I would have all important debates in wine bars ala Educating Rita

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.............

How do more machines = more jobs? The history of mechanisation is one of job redundancies.

That's right we agree, but I'm not sure you're following what I'm saying about this.

Machines destroy old jobs e.g. buggy and horsewhip corporations are seldom in existence these days. And they create new industries e.g. the car industry.

So, on one hand capitalism destroys, that's the Natural Selection part of its evolution, and on the other hand it shapes entirely new industries into being. So; we're not comparing the same jobs.

No, we're not. But if we're comparing the number of people employed - jobs and skills are invariably lost in the process of mechanisation.

Nevertheless, it is Net benefit to society. The volumes of furniture at their various qualities can't possibly be created on such a scale by hand-craft.

Craftsmen still exist for the wealthy as they always have done, they're just very very expensive for an ordinary person."

That, wrongly in my _iew, insists there's an onging demand for new furniture.

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".............

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

..............."

So, is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Takes me back to my student days....when I would have all important debates in wine bars ala Educating Rita"

For me it is coffee, jaffa cakes (nectar of the gods) and interweb conversation with my friends (10 foot away in other rooms, but still on Skype

)

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

Before anybody claims this 'wealth' is given solely to the rich, this is nonsense. The first thing the rich do when recieving this much capital, is re

Nevertheless, it is Net benefit to society. The volumes of furniture at their various qualities can't possibly be created on such a scale by hand-craft.

Craftsmen still exist for the wealthy as they always have done, they're just very very expensive for an ordinary person."

if men have the talent to invent machines,that put men out of work,they have the talent,to put those men back to work.

jf kennedy

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Before anybody claims this 'wealth' is given solely to the rich, this is nonsense. The first thing the rich do when recieving this much capital, is re

Nevertheless, it is Net benefit to society. The volumes of furniture at their various qualities can't possibly be created on such a scale by hand-craft.

Craftsmen still exist for the wealthy as they always have done, they're just very very expensive for an ordinary person.

if men have the talent to invent machines,that put men out of work,they have the talent,to put those men back to work.

jf kennedy"

Did any of you hear a shot?

JF Kennedy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".............

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

...............

So, is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'?"

Edited to add.

I'm sorry. I'm one of the only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That, wrongly in my _iew, insists there's an onging demand for new furniture.

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously."

Carpe Diem!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wishy, I love you! Sometimes I am not brave enough but here here, why should I be paying for these fraudsters???

oooo a fan! I have a fan!! This has never happened before. Would you like me to sign your boobs or something? Please???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Before anybody claims this 'wealth' is given solely to the rich, this is nonsense. The first thing the rich do when recieving this much capital, is re

Nevertheless, it is Net benefit to society. The volumes of furniture at their various qualities can't possibly be created on such a scale by hand-craft.

Craftsmen still exist for the wealthy as they always have done, they're just very very expensive for an ordinary person.

if men have the talent to invent machines,that put men out of work,they have the talent,to put those men back to work.

jf kennedy"

Having the talent is one thing. Having the will is another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".............

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

...............

So, is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'?

Edited to add.

I'm sorry. I'm one of the only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Aha! A geek! Only we know that joke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That, wrongly in my _iew, insists there's an onging demand for new furniture.

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously.

Carpe Diem! "

If I were seizing Colin or Justin at all, it'd be by the throat.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

and

I read a lot of books, and thus a lot of what is seemingly technobabble can infiltrate my everyday speech and writing.

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

I don't teach people Economics or Computation, but if I did, I would probably be a more lucid conversationalist as a result."

Now you state why you say it the way you do, I fully understand!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".............

For example; if faced with two choices in a question somebody has given me, I may say something like: "It's binary".

...............

So, is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'?

Edited to add.

I'm sorry. I'm one of the only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Aha! A geek! Only we know that joke

You, me and Google.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously."

Are you including doors taken off tenement entrances to be used as perimeter fencing around building sites, as used to occur many years ago??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if men have the talent to invent machines,that put men out of work,they have the talent,to put those men back to work.

jf kennedy

Having the talent is one thing. Having the will is another."

It's a matter of survival for the capitalists to pay workers to generate wealth in order to sell it back to them. Of course, we're talking as if they are two seperate groupings, when really, they aren't.

There are those who identify with certain philosophies of the world, e.g. capitalism for me and communism for others, but fundamentally everyone with a bank account (non-sharia) is participating in fraction reverse banking by saving and accepting interest payments. Similarly, everyone with a pension is benefiting from the division of labour through the index funds where tens of thousands of corporations across the world and millions of people work in hundreds of sectors in order to sustain themselves.

Capitalism is an active quality, it's something you do in practice, it's optimization, creativity and thus it is all technology. You don't need to believe in it for it to work, that's what makes the System strong.

It took us a long time to accept this bargain with ourselves. Capitalism is a very very new thing. It has only existed for 200 - 300 years.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I have to ask the question.....how did we get here from a woman cheating the benefits system?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to ask the question.....how did we get here from a woman cheating the benefits system?

Maybe the plane she jumped out of belonged to a rich Tory who likes antique furniture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously.

Are you including doors taken off tenement entrances to be used as perimeter fencing around building sites, as used to occur many years ago??

I'll have to take your word for that. Tenement entrances have only really had close entrance doors since the late 70s.

You may be thinking of doo'cots which are traditionally built from the internal doors, complete with moulding which escaped the clutches of Barry Bucknell, and could be 25-30 feet high.

Clydebuilt? Ye canny whack it.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"I have to ask the question.....how did we get here from a woman cheating the benefits system?

Maybe the plane she jumped out of belonged to a rich Tory who likes antique furniture.

You mean to say, that you've only just realised that this is how a lot of threads end up, far removed from the opening thread or subject matter?

Oooh! shame on you Wishy? Have you not been paying attention?

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Glasgow, an example I know well, is alive with sources of previously owned furniture. Perfectly good and serviceable and, unless you can find a use for it, it'll go to landfill.

It's maybe not the 100% perfect colour-match so there's a chance you'll get a tongue lashing from Colin and Justin but, know what?, go for it! Live dangerously.

Are you including doors taken off tenement entrances to be used as perimeter fencing around building sites, as used to occur many years ago??

I'll have to take your word for that. Tenement entrances have only really had close entrance doors since the late 70s.

You may be thinking of doo'cots which are traditionally built from the internal doors, complete with moulding which escaped the clutches of Barry Bucknell, and could be 25-30 feet high.

Clydebuilt? Ye canny whack it."

My father was in the Construction business and that's how I learnt that a lot of sites in Glasgow in the 50's and 60's were protected by doors being stripped out of condemned buildings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My father was in the Construction business and that's how I learnt that a lot of sites in Glasgow in the 50's and 60's were protected by doors being stripped out of condemned buildings."

That'd have been internal doors. Secure entry close doors only really came about with the transition from private factors (my lot

) to social rented housing.

There was much demolition especially just west and nor/west of the city centre to make way for the Kingston Bridge/ M8 corridor but few, if any, tenements had doors onto the street.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to ask the question.....how did we get here from a woman cheating the benefits system?

Maybe the plane she jumped out of belonged to a rich Tory who likes antique furniture.

You mean to say, that you've only just realised that this is how a lot of threads end up, far removed from the opening thread or subject matter?

Oooh! shame on you Wishy? Have you not been paying attention?

Sorry, no, been watching Star Trek Voyager when Tom Paris defied Captain Janeway and tried to save a planet made entirely of water from dissipating into space. It was really rivetting stuff y'know!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How d'ye rivet water?

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How d'ye rivet water?"

Tsk, you know nothing bout space and dampening fields. It had a technological core that held the water on the surface by way of a dampening field (damp geddit hehehe). The problem was the technostuff at the planetoid's core was way old and destabilising, so Tom tried to fix it which went against the Prime Directive and he got 30 days in the brig for his troubles. See.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"How d'ye rivet water?

Were any Communists involved in this prodedure?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to ask the question.....how did we get here from a woman cheating the benefits system?

What woman?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Were any Communists involved in this prodedure?"

Nooooo! We're beyond all that nonsense in the 24th Century. We don't even use money anymore. We got this big ship that never runs out of fuel (fucks Esso right off no end I tell ya!!), and it zips all over the galaxy, well part of it anyway as it's stuck in the delta quadrant and it's trying to get back to the alpha quadrant but it has to go through the beta quadrant (it's full of fucking Greeks y'know!), not quite sure what happened to the gamma quadrant though as they never talk about it, maybe it left in the middle of a dark rainy night and never came back and it was found out later that it had been having an affair with another married quadrant, who knows, it's definately fucked off though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How d'ye rivet water?

Were any Communists involved in this prodedure?"

If I remember correctly, Star Trek is actually pretty Communist utopian in it's backstory. They got rid of money, everyone had enough to go around, no property rights etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How d'ye rivet water?

I accept I know nothing about space and dampening fields but I know rather a lot about water and fluid dynamics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How d'ye rivet water?

Were any Communists involved in this prodedure?

If I remember correctly, Star Trek is actually pretty Communist utopian in it's backstory. They got rid of money, everyone had enough to go around, no property rights etc"

They got this Federation of Planets thingy now. Stops people quarelling apparently. Quite why they got laserguns on starships escapes me though.

Janeway makes me chuckle though, "We're on a peaceful mission, we're explorers.. {turns aside and says to Tuvok, "target their weapons and fire!"}"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How d'ye rivet water?

Were any Communists involved in this prodedure?

If I remember correctly, Star Trek is actually pretty Communist utopian in it's backstory. They got rid of money, everyone had enough to go around, no property rights etc

They got this Federation of Planets thingy now. Stops people quarelling apparently. Quite why they got laserguns on starships escapes me though.

Janeway makes me chuckle though, "We're on a peaceful mission, we're explorers.. {turns aside and says to Tuvok, "target their weapons and fire!"}""

Sounds like classic Commie behaviour to me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sounds like classic Commie behaviour to me!

No, there aren't any Mancunians in it at all. I think Manchester is a suburb of Greater Bradford in the 24th Century. It would explain the mess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A woman who was filmed skydiving while claiming sickness benefits has been handed a suspended jail term.

Clare Jones, 38, from Tonypandy, Rhondda, claimed she could only walk 25 metres without crutches, only to be filmed skydiving out of a plane at 12,000 ft (3,657m).

Jones admitted fraudulently claiming £891 in incapacity benefits and £5,125 in disability living allowance.

Jones was told she would have gone to prison without a guilty plea.

Pontypridd magistrate Virginia Osbourne said: "The courts and society take a very dim _iew of this type of fraud.".

Jones' 12-week sentence was suspended for 12 months.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-13990987"

Its sad what greed drives some people to. I hope she shows remorse and has the grace to apologise on camera. I would hazard a guess she won't.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

what annoys me that she was walking calmly from the car to the court with out any problems, some bad back eh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"what annoys me that she was walking calmly from the car to the court with out any problems, some bad back eh"

A pure lack of shame on her part. Society should shun her till she makes an open apology on camera.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"what annoys me that she was walking calmly from the car to the court with out any problems, some bad back eh

A pure lack of shame on her part. Society should shun her till she makes an open apology on camera."
it sure is

just hope this teaches others they will catch you sooner or later

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Thanks but I feel no need to write to you on this matter as I can't see a problem with the thread.

Just to clarify, the thread wasn't going to be explained to you, it was my comments you were struggling with that I was willing to explain.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"what annoys me that she was walking calmly from the car to the court with out any problems, some bad back eh"

My mother had a stroke 4 years ago,every step brings her pain,believe me you have never felt inadequate until you have attended a benefits re_iew when they order your mother to crawl on the floor to prove she cannot get up without help.Imagine how you might feel as you watched her tears.

But she walks proudly where she can,many many people do not flaunt their problems.

As i said before,the anti disabled attitude in this country is growing,and scary.i hate to goodwin but the beginnings of the concentration camps were in getting rid of those who were judged physically imperfect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and finally....er...frankly...I dont give a damn

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

All theft is wrong.... and you do not have to 'walk in their shoes' of a victim/s of a mugger, as an owner of a SMALL business whose stock is stolen by shoplifters, a householder who has come home and found their house trashed and their possessions gone, a bank teller faced with an armed gunman and be justified in any way....

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

well, not if you have personal integrity.

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