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"No no no no no no no!" Aw, Snowy, you say that to us guys every time. Giz us a shag for once. love Grumpy | |||
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"We have met some smashing guys too but also wasted a lot of time with the other type !" same for women as well for couples | |||
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"No no no no no no no! Aw, Snowy, you say that to us guys every time. Giz us a shag for once. love Grumpy " I don't do shadows | |||
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"No no no no no no no! Aw, Snowy, you say that to us guys every time. Giz us a shag for once. love Grumpy I don't do shadows " I'll tell Hank and the guys. Not even a foursome with Olivia? | |||
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" To the OP, have a heart for some of us single guys. We have already paid dearly in becoming single again. " Thats not exclusive to men ya know! There's a reason I've stayed single for 5 years. | |||
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" To the OP, have a heart for some of us single guys. We have already paid dearly in becoming single again. " | |||
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" To the OP, have a heart for some of us single guys. We have already paid dearly in becoming single again. Thats not exclusive to men ya know! There's a reason I've stayed single for 5 years. " also a reason for myself why i am single but why should i pay for it? | |||
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"We have met some smashing guys too but also wasted a lot of time with the other type !" hate to say you get that on all swing sites free or not . | |||
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" To the OP, have a heart for some of us single guys. We have already paid dearly in becoming single again. Thats not exclusive to men ya know! There's a reason I've stayed single for 5 years. also a reason for myself why i am single but why should i pay for it?" If you read upthread I am one of the people who think it should be free. Don't turn this into a female vs male thread, cos we all have our faults and fabness. | |||
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"it seams the thread is turning out 2 be bash at us single guys" Where? Only the OP is stating exlicitly that men should pay. Everyone else is disagreeing. | |||
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"If you don't want to meet single guys who don't pay you can block them from your filters page, so the site works just as you want: http://www.fabswingers.com/my/filters (To be fair, we've set that you can only block non-sitesupporters members if you're a site supporter yourself) Admin x" And just think, it only costs a fiver to get round that filter too! | |||
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"it seams the thread is turning out 2 be bash at us single guys" I dont see it that way. Do you not ever "bash" yerself? | |||
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"it seams the thread is turning out 2 be bash at us single guys" You are wrong... it started as a bash! It is turning out to be one that is actually defending the single guys | |||
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"it seams the thread is turning out 2 be bash at us single guys You are wrong... it started as a bash! It is turning out to be one that is actually defending the single guys" was meant to say the op question was to have a go at us anyways admin did answer there question | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? " fish supper and a pickle do ye? | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? fish supper and a pickle do ye? " Dont forget the mushy peas | |||
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"Poor single men again " Thursday innit! | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? fish supper and a pickle do ye? Dont forget the mushy peas " yer on! | |||
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"How is it that whatever the question, the answer is always to bleed the cash out of single guys? Bash bash bash. It's always the same. " Oooooo ok ok..... so hold the mushy peas | |||
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"How is it that whatever the question, the answer is always to bleed the cash out of single guys? Bash bash bash. It's always the same. " I know several sites where everyone gets charged. Must admit though, not seeing why everyone thinks single guys are pests. i love 'em. More the merrier in my opinion. | |||
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"How is it that whatever the question, the answer is always to bleed the cash out of single guys? Bash bash bash. It's always the same. Oooooo ok ok..... so hold the mushy peas " ffs Pie, you realise that mushy will want you to do watersports now!! | |||
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"it seams the thread is turning out 2 be bash at us single guys" Hold on while I dig out my violin..... | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? fish supper and a pickle do ye? " Forget the fish, pickle breath for me everytime | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? fish supper and a pickle do ye? Forget the fish, pickle breath for me everytime " With or without a gherkin? | |||
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"I'll pay if you will, I'm not a timewaster are you ? fish supper and a pickle do ye? Forget the fish, pickle breath for me everytime " told you that you were a weirdo!!! | |||
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" With or without a gherkin?" Heard about the blonde Essex girl who thought the London Gherkin was a glass dildo? King Kong eat your heart out. | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ?." no | |||
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"I beg your pardon lol Ok so I'm now in a relationship but still playing single and have actually been on the swinging scene for nearly thirty years both as a single and couples Can I ask how long you have been doing it? There are time wasting couples as well as singles it's a fact of life The slagging of single males has always got up my back even in my times a couple I notice you don't mention single females lol Well you wouldn't would you In all my time on the scene and on swinging site fourms I have never read such a jumped up up ya own ass post as this Congratulations on being the first to ever make me post like this And good luck with life in swinging cause Ill tell you somthing you will need it with an attitude to people like you have" | |||
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"no i dont think they should pay, but on a slightly different note, why do single males have to pay more to get into clubs??" because i suspect no one has the bottle to take em to court for obvious blatant discrimination...me included | |||
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"no i dont think they should pay, but on a slightly different note, why do single males have to pay more to get into clubs?? because i suspect no one has the bottle to take em to court for obvious blatant discrimination...me included " i was a lil bit shocked that a couple pay £10, single female is £5 and a single male is £20... bit out of order if you ask me. | |||
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"The law on separate charging in clubs is changing this year it may be a good thing it may be a bad thing we will have to see xx " If clubs are worried the place would be over run with single males then surely they'd limit numbers. just thought it was unfair to charge so much. sorry for going off topic xxx | |||
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"So...because the OP is unable to sort the wheat from the chaff they want to penalise single men! I only met single men, in four years didn't come across one timewaster! Leave the single men alone: poor sods get bashed every day and not in a way they'd like!" ^^ i agree ha. We get stereotyped just too easily these days. Judge people as individuals on here not as groups. | |||
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"Why do so many people always put the blame on single guys it's now starting to piss me off Try looking closer to home before you start accusing every single male on here of timewasting!!!!!!!!! " Yeah let's gang up on em all lol xx | |||
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"Why do so many people always put the blame on single guys it's now starting to piss me off Try looking closer to home before you start accusing every single male on here of timewasting!!!!!!!!! " there are timewasters in all areas single men/women and couples. it just seames that single men are always getting the short end of the straw wherever they go on sites, clubs, why should fab carry on with this trend, its one of the few places that does not penalise a man for being single. this shouldn't change...... | |||
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"Why do so many people always put the blame on single guys it's now starting to piss me off Try looking closer to home before you start accusing every single male on here of timewasting!!!!!!!!! Yeah let's gang up on em all lol xx " yeah lets go on strike !!!! ..hmmm let me think about that for a sec | |||
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"yeah lets go on strike !!!! ..hmmm let me think about that for a sec " Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo................!!!!!! | |||
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"Why do so many people always put the blame on single guys it's now starting to piss me off Try looking closer to home before you start accusing every single male on here of timewasting!!!!!!!!! Yeah let's gang up on em all lol xx yeah lets go on strike !!!! ..hmmm let me think about that for a sec " Ehh? After you! I'll sit back, looking after all of those missing you! | |||
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"Why do so many people always put the blame on single guys it's now starting to piss me off Try looking closer to home before you start accusing every single male on here of timewasting!!!!!!!!! Yeah let's gang up on em all lol xx yeah lets go on strike !!!! ..hmmm let me think about that for a sec " would we notice the difference??? | |||
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"Single men do my head in sometimes... however most of them are lovely " would say for the women to lol | |||
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"Ive just become a couple...wheres my discount!!!!- although she cannot attend any meets,parties,or clubs...but she loves perving womens fanny pics and booby ones too...feel free to send to "us" hehhe" Hello darling, I'm home | |||
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"if single guys were to pay, you'd jst find more of them comein on as couples or single ladies to get round it jst as they do on other sites. so you'd end up with more fakes to get through b4 being able to get a genuine meet." your right ..... thay would come on as single woman and couples to get over the cost .... i think its good it free for everyone x | |||
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"Okay,.. I can't do it. I tried breathing, meditation, taking myself to a dark corner for a word or two... but I can't bring myself to putting up a cheerful post. What utter nonsensical diatribe... "every single guy should pay"?? What barmy hair brained idea did that take to come to fruition?? Lets check the ratio of single guys the average couple (who meet guys) are time-wasters. Now check the ratio (for those that meet other couples) are time-wasters. Do the same for single females. By ratio (not number), the results are fairly the same... but you don't see anyone saying "yeah, charge couples!" or "charge single females", cauese you know what would happen - you'd get an almighty "Sod you!" followed by "Mass Block!" and ignored at socials (if ever invited). As for "charge single guys" , oh yeah sure - cause in your mind "every single guy is a time-waster". Here's the most important thign about the "every guy is a time-waster" argument being stupid: Has anyone ever contacted EVERY single guy? 1) How many are there? 2) How long did it take? 3) How many did you agree to meet? 4) Of the ones you met, how many will you meet again? 5) How many did you actually meet and hence how many (the others) were time-wasters? 6) Of the ones you'll meet again, how many will be happy you've lumped them in the same group of time-wasters (if the running of the site was up to you) you'd also charge for the sins of their lesser commital brethren? Ive been swinging over 6 years, meeting couples and single females. Over time I've encountered time-wasters, or better put, "non-commitals" (they string you long like they wanna meet but really have no intention and I can smell it 100 miles away), yet your post suggests not only am I wrong as these people don't really exist, it suggests even if they did, they should not be punished by account-subscription: single men (including especially the ones that turn up) should,.. including me! (Yes, I'm taking this VERY personally!) You really haven't thought this through have you??" Hear hear I thought the Tories were trying to charge me extra for something else for a moment | |||
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"Okay,.. I can't do it. I tried breathing, meditation, taking myself to a dark corner for a word or two... but I can't bring myself to putting up a cheerful post. What utter nonsensical diatribe... "every single guy should pay"?? What barmy hair brained idea did that take to come to fruition?? Lets check the ratio of single guys the average couple (who meet guys) are time-wasters. Now check the ratio (for those that meet other couples) are time-wasters. Do the same for single females. By ratio (not number), the results are fairly the same... but you don't see anyone saying "yeah, charge couples!" or "charge single females", cauese you know what would happen - you'd get an almighty "Sod you!" followed by "Mass Block!" and ignored at socials (if ever invited). As for "charge single guys" , oh yeah sure - cause in your mind "every single guy is a time-waster". Here's the most important thign about the "every guy is a time-waster" argument being stupid: Has anyone ever contacted EVERY single guy? 1) How many are there? 2) How long did it take? 3) How many did you agree to meet? 4) Of the ones you met, how many will you meet again? 5) How many did you actually meet and hence how many (the others) were time-wasters? 6) Of the ones you'll meet again, how many will be happy you've lumped them in the same group of time-wasters (if the running of the site was up to you) you'd also charge for the sins of their lesser commital brethren? Ive been swinging over 6 years, meeting couples and single females. Over time I've encountered time-wasters, or better put, "non-commitals" (they string you long like they wanna meet but really have no intention and I can smell it 100 miles away), yet your post suggests not only am I wrong as these people don't really exist, it suggests even if they did, they should not be punished by account-subscription: single men (including especially the ones that turn up) should,.. including me! (Yes, I'm taking this VERY personally!) You really haven't thought this through have you??" Well said that man | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up." No, they are marginalised enough on here, how about we charge couples as there are two of them | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ?" It's a 'no' from me! I've been on Fab for 3 years and I've never had my time wasted by a single guy. Instead of expecting all single guys to pay, think about putting in more effort to YOUR selection process. | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? It's a 'no' from me! I've been on Fab for 3 years and I've never had my time wasted by a single guy. Instead of expecting all single guys to pay, think about putting in more effort to YOUR selection process." I have been on this site for over 2yrs now don't think I have ever wasted anyones time. I have had a few meets with couples cancelled by the male a pretty short notice. Were they fakes who knows? | |||
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"Ive just become a couple...wheres my discount!!!!- although she cannot attend any meets,parties,or clubs...but she loves perving womens fanny pics and booby ones too...feel free to send to "us" hehhe Hello darling, I'm home " Great, grab me a beer from the fridge...anyway...ive a hot meet tomorrow with a couple...u cant come...uve dishes to do...shame isnt it... | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up." At your age, you really ought to have a little more common sense than to come out with such an inane statement. I would have thought in your location swinging friends of the ages you seek willing to meet people your age, were thin on the ground anyway, without upseting them? Having said that lets hope you get what you deserve. | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up." Why should single men pay cos u choose badly | |||
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"Absolutely not and I doubt it would make any difference to timewasting. Mistress x" (failed to read previous statements)I disagree...just cos I wanna be different.. | |||
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"Ive just left another site i was on for 6 years, because i found out by accident that i was paying £20 more a year than couples and single females. I asked the site owner how he could justify me(having 5 stars and lots of feedback and being with them for 6 years) being charged more than a couple who were just on the site to advertise their club through their advert. He came back with some poor excuse about a higher fee putting off timewasters. So i told him out of principle i wouldnt renew. I can prehaps understand clubs charging more for single men with their overheads, but how can a website charge two different prices for the same product?. " Especially when the discounted account has 2 people that use it and hence can belogged on at the same time also? I know the one. Guess what - when they have their social you wouldn't be invited cause the venue on the night is couples only How does that feel knowing you've financially subsidised that. | |||
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"Ive just left another site i was on for 6 years, because i found out by accident that i was paying £20 more a year than couples and single females. I asked the site owner how he could justify me(having 5 stars and lots of feedback and being with them for 6 years) being charged more than a couple who were just on the site to advertise their club through their advert. He came back with some poor excuse about a higher fee putting off timewasters. So i told him out of principle i wouldnt renew. I can prehaps understand clubs charging more for single men with their overheads, but how can a website charge two different prices for the same product?. Especially when the discounted account has 2 people that use it and hence can belogged on at the same time also? I know the one. Guess what - when they have their social you wouldn't be invited cause the venue on the night is couples only How does that feel knowing you've financially subsidised that." I know the 1 as well before split with my husband that was 1 we were on . A cpl weeks before any social there were a lot of cpls made up of single fems and single guys made up just for that reason so the guys could go the social which most of us thought was great as we couldnt understand why a single fem was allowed to go but not a single guy x | |||
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"Ive just left another site i was on for 6 years, because i found out by accident that i was paying £20 more a year than couples and single females. I asked the site owner how he could justify me(having 5 stars and lots of feedback and being with them for 6 years) being charged more than a couple who were just on the site to advertise their club through their advert. He came back with some poor excuse about a higher fee putting off timewasters. So i told him out of principle i wouldnt renew. I can prehaps understand clubs charging more for single men with their overheads, but how can a website charge two different prices for the same product?. Especially when the discounted account has 2 people that use it and hence can belogged on at the same time also? I know the one. Guess what - when they have their social you wouldn't be invited cause the venue on the night is couples only How does that feel knowing you've financially subsidised that. I know the 1 as well before split with my husband that was 1 we were on . A cpl weeks before any social there were a lot of cpls made up of single fems and single guys made up just for that reason so the guys could go the social which most of us thought was great as we couldnt understand why a single fem was allowed to go but not a single guy x" Only problem with that, if you're a couple lookign for another couple (not singles, guys or girls) then you end up chattign to a random bunch of peopel findng out they're just "pairs" for the evening and you have to wonder who the legit (by account) couples are? slightly frustrating. Added with the issue on the site very few (if any) will meet if you don't have verification - which you can only get from either meeting or having been to a social in the first place. so how do you go about getting someone to agree to go with you, an unverified member, to a social so you get past that hurdle? Talk about catch-22. | |||
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"its not just Single guys that can be the timewasters... there have been cases where Couples and Singles fems have done the same.. its just that everyone only seems to bring the attention of guys doing it. as some have said before by making it a pay site for Guys, it wont ween out the Timewasters.. they are part and parcel of any Swinging site. there are people out there, that love the thought of swinging. the idea of meeting up with random people for NSA or taking part in a Couples fantasy. but when the day comes of them actually meeting.. they suddenly realise they can not go through with it. maybe through nerves, or the fact they are unalbe to (married etc). i'm not sticking up for time wasters... as i beleive in being honest with people. and if your unsure, say it from the start. if i was asked to pay membership just because of my status.. i would be cancelling my account.. as i think it would be unfair. " Absolutely. I saw a Christmas party once where the venue were charging couples £35 and single guys £70 (for entry). I asked why the difference and was told "there's going to be more food and music" to which I replied "So to cover costs you're saying single guys eat twice as much food as both members of the couple combined, or single guys enjoy music twice as much as couples?" Their response: received a life ban from future events. | |||
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"Ive just left another site i was on for 6 years, because i found out by accident that i was paying £20 more a year than couples and single females. I asked the site owner how he could justify me(having 5 stars and lots of feedback and being with them for 6 years) being charged more than a couple who were just on the site to advertise their club through their advert. He came back with some poor excuse about a higher fee putting off timewasters. So i told him out of principle i wouldnt renew. I can prehaps understand clubs charging more for single men with their overheads, but how can a website charge two different prices for the same product?. Especially when the discounted account has 2 people that use it and hence can belogged on at the same time also? I know the one. Guess what - when they have their social you wouldn't be invited cause the venue on the night is couples only How does that feel knowing you've financially subsidised that." I started a thread asking why the prices were so much higher on the other site just before my membership ran out, but they deleted it when i reverted to basic membership. The keep the fact that guys who renew pay £20 more than couples and single females quiet, and i only found out because a couple i knew on there mentioned their renewal price. The thing that annoys me is you have clubs on their using a couple profile to advertise their club nights, paying less than i was. | |||
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"Loads of clubs charge singles male more its which i wont go to them because of this" Clubs quite often make their money from single guys as they are the biggest market. However the guys would not go if there was no women there, hence couples and single women get their entrance subsidized. On evenings where there are no single guys allowed, the couples subsidy is reduced. Normal night clubs have been doing this for years. Guys pay and women get in for free / reduced rates. In economic terms, single guys don't pay more. Couples and single females pay less. Yes, it is not fair but if a business is to run successfully it must use a market forces economic model. | |||
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"nope.. SH charges a single tarif for all users. " Last time I was on £49.95 for couple, £59.95 for singles. Some people have free membership. | |||
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"Why is it always the single male that gets the bashing. It is unfair to label everyone in the same catergory. There is equally the same for single fems and couples. Yes you will come across assholes and numptys block move on, lifes to short to worry about them. To be honest have been on other sites and by far this is the best one." my point exactly they just want us single guys to pay for something that suits them. op has not even paid. not even photo verified, been on the site over a year an moan about single guys some thing strange there me thinks | |||
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"not even photo verified, been on the site over a year an moan about single guys some thing strange there me thinks" In fairness, they are verified in person by three different peeps.... says as much if not more than a pic verification | |||
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"not even photo verified, been on the site over a year an moan about single guys some thing strange there me thinks In fairness, they are verified in person by three different peeps.... says as much if not more than a pic verification" maybe so dose not give them the right to say that single guys should pay for it. | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!" well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it" Begs the question 'How did you know it was a man'? Was it the result of a meet gone wrong? | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it Begs the question 'How did you know it was a man'? Was it the result of a meet gone wrong? " it was not a female that for sure | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it Begs the question 'How did you know it was a man'? Was it the result of a meet gone wrong? it was not a female that for sure" You reprted someone on a hunch...and not with any form of proof? | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up." dont you get couples and women time wasters then? | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up. dont you get couples and women time wasters then? " lol yes you do | |||
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"Does anyone think that charging single guys to be on this site might reduce the number of single male time wasters ? Secondly, while we are happy to meet guys in their 20s,30s and 40s, it always seems to be that the 20 yr olds are the no shows and do not even have the manners to say they are not bothering to turn up." don't be daft, if you only want singles who pay then search for the silver and gold members only. Gold members! sniggers | |||
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"Ok, i havent read any of the posts on this thread. But surely when someone joins fabswingers they know its a free site (optional silver and gold). If they wanted to go on a site where guys paid then they should bloody well join a paid site. I know there are fantasists and idiots on lots of sites, regardless of whether they are free or not. Why would you be happy to join a site then decide that you want the site policy to change. If people dont like the fact that there are time wasters here then why dont they just bugger of else where and stop whinging" Ya saved me typing it | |||
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"No" I agree | |||
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"quite agree with _amboo about young guys not showing up for meets,i have had quite a few,all keen to meet me,then dont turn up " having only just started seeing younger guys ie in their 20s have found them to be more polite and trust worthy than some guys a dam sight older . | |||
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"quite agree with _amboo about young guys not showing up for meets,i have had quite a few,all keen to meet me,then dont turn up having only just started seeing younger guys ie in their 20s have found them to be more polite and trust worthy than some guys a dam sight older ." When creating group fun, gb's, the more mature are straightforward in terms of confirming joining the event, the younger they are the more your hit with 20 questions and more often than not a "no-show", why because they are meet juggling, a theory. | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it Begs the question 'How did you know it was a man'? Was it the result of a meet gone wrong? it was not a female that for sure You reprted someone on a hunch...and not with any form of proof? " your not reading it properly. | |||
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"There will just be an increase in men pretending to be woman!!well caught 1 early in scotland room n reported it Begs the question 'How did you know it was a man'? Was it the result of a meet gone wrong? it was not a female that for sure You reprted someone on a hunch...and not with any form of proof? your not reading it properly." Sorry if this reads as if puting you on the spot, but you do that, then i look you up, all your veri's are via webcam or phone? Yet judge a profile on instinct? A hunch? | |||
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"quite agree with _amboo about young guys not showing up for meets,i have had quite a few,all keen to meet me,then dont turn up having only just started seeing younger guys ie in their 20s have found them to be more polite and trust worthy than some guys a dam sight older . When creating group fun, gb's, the more mature are straightforward in terms of confirming joining the event, the younger they are the more your hit with 20 questions and more often than not a "no-show", why because they are meet juggling, a theory." ah that maybe it as ive never meet for group or a gb just 1 to 1 and not had a problem x | |||
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"quite agree with _amboo about young guys not showing up for meets,i have had quite a few,all keen to meet me,then dont turn up having only just started seeing younger guys ie in their 20s have found them to be more polite and trust worthy than some guys a dam sight older . When creating group fun, gb's, the more mature are straightforward in terms of confirming joining the event, the younger they are the more your hit with 20 questions and more often than not a "no-show", why because they are meet juggling, a theory." This is currently happening to me! Trying to arrange a GB, getting lots of interest from guys old and young. GB gets closer, the younger guys start dropping out one by one. One guys excuse was that he had a party! The older guys are still there, happy to come. I won't make anyone attend a GB with me that they are desperate to get out of, but I wish they'd think of the consequences. Not only did they take up a place that another, more reliable, guy could have had, but they make me feel like crap because they obviously never wanted to come in the first place! This isn't a 'older vs younger' rant by the way - I have had older guys do the same thing at GBs. But younger guys do tend to double or triple book, and its a bit crap. | |||
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"may as well set up a fake profile now being a couple, as it seams every 1 else is trying to do it" God you do moan..... | |||
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"may as well set up a fake profile now being a couple, as it seams every 1 else is trying to do it God you do moan..... " an every 1 else is allowed to? | |||
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