FabSwingers.com forum: Self employed

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Some do, some don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope, some of the self-employed people I know are the most disorganised people I know

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

All of them?

Of course, I am one of those that can but I know others I wouldn't give any work because they're all flash and spin with no substance or work ethic.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

much better than?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm self-employed and I choose that lifestyle so I can spin less plates, have a better quality of life, more time for my family and friends and generally have more balance.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself? "

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By *andVBCouple
over a year ago

Wrexham

One may argue that they have to?

Salaried folk will be paid regardless of how much or little work they do (although not indefinitely if they do too little!). Self-employed will need to complete jobs quickly and efficiently to ensure availability for the next job.

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I'm self-employed and I choose that lifestyle so I can spin less plates, have a better quality of life, more time for my family and friends and generally have more balance."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm self employed and probably the most disorganised person I know

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself? "

That's one of the best burns I've witnessed. Kudos.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself?

That's one of the best burns I've witnessed. Kudos.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations. "

That's not possible! By becoming self employed you are imbued with new wonder powers. Although, I think I got more actual work done when I was an employee as I didn't have to spend all my time bidding for work.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business."

Top post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

I spent more time working when I was self employed to the detriment of family life. I actually have to be more on the ball and juggle more things now being employed as I'm at home less. But at least I have clearly defined working hours and can shut off....and have paid holiday with the family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business.

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Self Employed people tend to NEED to motivate themselves a lot more.

I was a lot more efficient when I worked for my old company.

These days, now I'm my own boss, I can do what I want and tend to do exactly that.

Including being on here when I shouldn't be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Case of having to be organised to keep on top of things we are both self employed,bloody mad house

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

You;re self employed arent you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business.

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?"

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Yes, you can spend quite a bit of time quoting. But as time goes by, you get wiser. We give an overall price, if a customer wants a breakdown, that's chargeable.

One customer wanted discount, we said, "No problem". Their face lit up. Then we said, "Ring the council and whatever you get knocked off our council tax, we'll deduct off the invoice". The penny dropped with them.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Self Employed people tend to NEED to motivate themselves a lot more.

I was a lot more efficient when I worked for my old company.

These days, now I'm my own boss, I can do what I want and tend to do exactly that.

Including being on here when I shouldn't be."

Some do, not all of us. Some of us are great at what we do and have it all covered.

Some of us don't even login to Fab until the work is done.

Some of us know how to get our priorities right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

In the early years the boundaries between my personal and professional life were too blurred and indeed I spent too much time working and away from the family. However a couple of health crises put things in perspective and I shifted the emphasis to quality of life rather than quantity of work. I now value myself more, charge more, work less and love life more, laugh more and learn more as I have time for it. Also I'm fitter and healthier than I was 20 years ago!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Yes, you can spend quite a bit of time quoting. But as time goes by, you get wiser. We give an overall price, if a customer wants a breakdown, that's chargeable.

Not all self employed work is the same. It is a little amusing that you assume I don't know what I'm doing and that's why I'm spending time bidding for work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed. "

It is.

I could have been a lot more efficient in my old job than I was if I was ALLOWED to utilize the shortcuts I knew existed....

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

Holidays?

Whats one of those then?

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business.

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Mea culpa! Mea culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

I have a similar view. As an employed person I learned a very hard lesson working 70 hour weeks. When I ended up in hospital, losing a pregnancy and having some complications after the speed with which I was sidelined was illuminating. We're all pretty expendable.

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By *andVBCouple
over a year ago

Wrexham

"-snip-

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Eek. I've been misinterpreted again!

I was attempting to suggest that people step up when their livelihood is more precarious rather than there being something inherently lazy about those in a more stable position.

I imagine plenty of salaried people have the same work-ethic OP admires while plenty of self-employed people are lackadaisical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Oh yes. The graveyards are full of the indispensable too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"-snip-

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Eek. I've been misinterpreted again!

I was attempting to suggest that people step up when their livelihood is more precarious rather than there being something inherently lazy about those in a more stable position.

I imagine plenty of salaried people have the same work-ethic OP admires while plenty of self-employed people are lackadaisical."

No, your point was clear! Love how it got pulled over though!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

Holidays?

Whats one of those then?"

I've rediscovered them after 5 years they're great! ....and sick pay! ....and I'm still able to function as a member of society and do a decent job when at work. Who would have thought the lowly employed could achieve so much?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"-snip-

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Eek. I've been misinterpreted again!

I was attempting to suggest that people step up when their livelihood is more precarious rather than there being something inherently lazy about those in a more stable position.

I imagine plenty of salaried people have the same work-ethic OP admires while plenty of self-employed people are lackadaisical."

I don't think you have been misinterpreted, the reaction is to the OPs top post comment. I happen to agree with the vast majority of what you've said but know plenty that survive as self-employed for different reasons than the OP has suggested...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

Holidays?

Whats one of those then?

It's part of the job, really - you don't get livestock if you want to go away.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"-snip-

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Eek. I've been misinterpreted again!

I was attempting to suggest that people step up when their livelihood is more precarious rather than there being something inherently lazy about those in a more stable position.

I imagine plenty of salaried people have the same work-ethic OP admires while plenty of self-employed people are lackadaisical.

Those forced into being self-employment because the model their company takes is to keep everyone as 'self employed' and working just for them. Delivery drivers now being charged if they call in sick as 'self employed'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed.

It is.

I could have been a lot more efficient in my old job than I was if I was ALLOWED to utilize the shortcuts I knew existed...."

Good point, but I was referring to one's attitude.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

Holidays?

Whats one of those then?

It's part of the job, really - you don't get livestock if you want to go away. "

It's a bit like having kids really. ...you don't have them if you want to be able to afford to go away. ...during school holidays!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"-snip-

Top post

Because it agrees with your perspective?

Don't be so cynical! Let's all massage OP's ego, as we're supposed to!

Eek. I've been misinterpreted again!

I was attempting to suggest that people step up when their livelihood is more precarious rather than there being something inherently lazy about those in a more stable position.

I imagine plenty of salaried people have the same work-ethic OP admires while plenty of self-employed people are lackadaisical.

That stuff boils my blood, but unethical organisations is another subject entirely

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

We have to simple as that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/03/17 22:20:05]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed.

It is.

I could have been a lot more efficient in my old job than I was if I was ALLOWED to utilize the shortcuts I knew existed....

Good point, but I was referring to one's attitude."

I can take my foot off the gas a lot more now I'm my own boss, I couldn't when I was employed and had paperwork coming out of my arse and piled up on my desk.

That's not an attitude factor.

That's a method of employment factor...

So it absolutely does make a difference.

Imo.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Ah, paid holidays...

Holidays?

Whats one of those then?

It's part of the job, really - you don't get livestock if you want to go away.

It's a bit like having kids really. ...you don't have them if you want to be able to afford to go away. ...during school holidays!

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I disagree. Although counterintuitive, one's efficiency and conscientiousness doesn't depend on how you're employed.

It is.

I could have been a lot more efficient in my old job than I was if I was ALLOWED to utilize the shortcuts I knew existed....

Good point, but I was referring to one's attitude.

I can take my foot off the gas a lot more now I'm my own boss, I couldn't when I was employed and had paperwork coming out of my arse and piled up on my desk.

That's not an attitude factor.

That's a method of employment factor...

So it absolutely does make a difference.

Imo."

But that's not agreeing with the OP's point which is indicating that people who are self employed have better skills ... which is utter bs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/03/17 22:22:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons. "

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But that's not agreeing with the OP's point which is indicating that people who are self employed have better skills ... which is utter bs."

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's point actually is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can take my foot off the gas a lot more now I'm my own boss, I couldn't when I was employed and had paperwork coming out of my arse and piled up on my desk.

That's not an attitude factor.

That's a method of employment factor...

So it absolutely does make a difference.

Imo."

True, but I meant (though didn't convey clearly) that's a workplace constraint (as you note), and while there'll be plenty that will interfere with, when left to one's own devices attitude tends to be the limiting factor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can take my foot off the gas a lot more now I'm my own boss, I couldn't when I was employed and had paperwork coming out of my arse and piled up on my desk.

That's not an attitude factor.

That's a method of employment factor...

So it absolutely does make a difference.

Imo.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder. "

**bang**

Daddy?...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But that's not agreeing with the OP's point which is indicating that people who are self employed have better skills ... which is utter bs.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's point actually is.

I think it's "we're better than everyone else and we do things the right way and everyone else is wrong because you are all immature and lack decency. " that's what comes across when you use the green arrow anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But that's not agreeing with the OP's point which is indicating that people who are self employed have better skills ... which is utter bs.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's point actually is.

I think it was meant as a put down similar to the messaging thread

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Yes, you can spend quite a bit of time quoting. But as time goes by, you get wiser. We give an overall price, if a customer wants a breakdown, that's chargeable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But that's not agreeing with the OP's point which is indicating that people who are self employed have better skills ... which is utter bs.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP's point actually is.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder.

**bang**

Daddy?...

Hahaha...

Rule number one of gun safety is never point a gun at anybody, ever.

That and I usually have to load it for her as the bolt can be a bit stiff means that I am safely behind her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Conscientiousness towards work, and the hard work, organised, ethic, is not exclusive to everyone, self employed.

I know plenty of people, who are employed and have a commendable work ethic, that exceeds many whom are self employed.

I've always been self employed, via companies and as an individual. I know the score.

I'll give you a tip. Don't "bag" people out, just because you think you're work ethic is exceptional, OP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder.

**bang**

Daddy?...

Hahaha...

Rule number one of gun safety is never point a gun at anybody, ever.

That and I usually have to load it for her as the bolt can be a bit stiff means that I am safely behind her. "

Brrrrave.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder.

**bang**

Daddy?...

Hahaha...

Rule number one of gun safety is never point a gun at anybody, ever.

That and I usually have to load it for her as the bolt can be a bit stiff means that I am safely behind her.

Brrrrave.

I didn't choose the hick life, the hick life chose me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'am self employed started with one client now have 20 with in three years,and its down to hard work and now have quality time with my family so it does work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is true - but I find that I can offer my daughter experiences other 8 year olds might not get, like looking after animals, how to use a shotgun and I'm giving her driving lessons.

8 year old daughter - how to use a shotgun.

It's only a .410, and shes quite tall which means that she can get it into her shoulder.

**bang**

Daddy?...

Hahaha...

Rule number one of gun safety is never point a gun at anybody, ever.

That and I usually have to load it for her as the bolt can be a bit stiff means that I am safely behind her.

Brrrrave.

I didn't choose the hick life, the hick life chose me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Can't say I have but you appear to be sure enough of these things OP, it's good to dream big, want more, aim high...it's a lot better when you remain humble & stay away from the high horse.

After all, no one likes a wanker do they

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting thread...

Will come back in here to have my say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No all contractors I've encountered in work are eother lazy or chronically slow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business."

If you're being paid by the hour you sure as shit aint gonna be doing it fast

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By *corpio67Man
over a year ago

hillingdon

"Nope, some of the self-employed people I know are the most disorganised people I know "

Well considering your in cloud cuckoo land I'm not surprised!!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All of them?

Of course, I am one of those that can but I know others I wouldn't give any work because they're all flash and spin with no substance or work ethic.

This totally

Working as a consultant previously if I didn't deliver I didn't get paid.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

If that's your attitude OP you sound like a shit employee to be honest, maybe you are simply self employed because no one would give you a job?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Nah.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Yeah ur absolutely right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why"

In all fairness, I have no previous experience of the OP but it's such a unproven and pointless statement to make. Good for the OP for thinking they have a good work ethic but certainly doesn't just apply to every contractor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself?

That's one of the best burns I've witnessed. Kudos.

Yeah this is a solid burn. I'd apply some water to the effected area immediately op

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

No what I don't like the pack mentality on here....and no I do not agree with the op on this one seems I have had numerous s/earphone jobs and the same employed.....but whatching people who I would not have expected to do op bashing jumping on the bandwagon saddens me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why"

To be honest, OP was rather judgemental in phrasing initially but I chose to simply and gently disagree at first. OP then makes another sweeping generalisation dismissing any differing opinions, I think that annoyed people and they've every right to express their annoyance (or the fact they disagree). And I'm not so sure people are on the attack from the word go but rather perhaps the defensive or counter-attack. If you post something controversial and intentionally so, you'll be answered by those that disagree. And at no point has OP tried to clarify that they meant anything different or engage with discussion of anyone that disagreed.

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

Pack mentality to one can be a number of people disagreeing to another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective. "

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X"

Ahhh, I've not been on the other thread. I was, however, not impressed with OP on this one. Which you may have gathered! Not least because many people in this country who are employed get up each day to earn their poverty in low waged and insecure employment and bashing generalisations like the OP made is soul destroying. And there are plenty of people unemployed right now, desperately trying to secure employment -- what does OP think of them. I just think that kind of bullshit needs calling out as generalised stereotypes are damaging however jokey or stupid the post was intended to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X"

PS I'm knackered and off to bed now....good night x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow...just that!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure. "

Its a counter to your point that employment is "insecure".

Otherwise thats kind of just an irrelevant comment to make

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Milk, lemonade, chocolate..... everyone get tae yer kip fs tiz sleepy time. XxmwahxX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure.

Its a counter to your point that employment is "insecure".

Otherwise thats kind of just an irrelevant comment to make

I stated many people are in low waged and insecure employment i.e. work that's under the living wage and/or contracts such as zero-hours (insecure work, it's a term) or as you state in fact anyone under 2yrs with company -- I did not state that being employed is insecure (as a total generalisation) or by implication (as a total generalisation) that self employment was secure.

So no, it wasn't!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure.

Its a counter to your point that employment is "insecure".

Otherwise thats kind of just an irrelevant comment to make

So no, it wasn't!"

But thanks for your thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure.

Its a counter to your point that employment is "insecure".

Otherwise thats kind of just an irrelevant comment to make

So no, it wasn't!"

Right. But it just a big non sequitur as it doesnt describe the majority of employment.

And it has little to no bearing on the ops point.

How odd it soul destroying four someone to ask if people find the self employed more competent (arguably this would kinda be a natural selection thing thats lacking in certain employment sectors ie public sector)

You then go on to ask a rhetorical question about what the op thinks if the unemployed, which has zero relevance to anything and is just a strawman you csn use to beat them.

Then after all your generalisations you slate them for generalising.

Its nkt so much a coherent argument as you just using an apeal to emotion to slate the op because you disagree with them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

That's not a counter to the point I was making. I'm not stating that self-employment is secure.

Its a counter to your point that employment is "insecure".

Otherwise thats kind of just an irrelevant comment to make

So no, it wasn't!

Right. But it just a big non sequitur as it doesnt describe the majority of employment.

And it has little to no bearing on the ops point.

You then go on to ask a rhetorical question about what the op thinks if the unemployed, which has zero relevance to anything and is just a strawman you csn use to beat them.

Then after all your generalisations you slate them for generalising.

Its nkt so much a coherent argument as you just using an apeal to emotion to slate the op because you disagree with them."

I seriously don't have the energy or inclination to engage when you're just trolling. Welcome to your opinions, as I am welcome to mine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

. "

Yes, yes it is! I'm starting to think this is a troll account.

Ruby

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Plates? So a self employed waiter?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

...my other half is self employed and the most disorganised person I know!

Now I'm retired he wants me to help organise him...yeah...right!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nope, some of the self-employed people I know are the most disorganised people I know "

Yeap.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"OK I've had a run in in the past with the op.....but I've read the full tread,well almost and tbh it does not read well we're 99% of posters are on the attack from the word go.

I know I won't be popular for saying this (probably never have been) but it's not a nice picture to view once the ball gets rolling.....and jumping from another thread from op to jump on this?

Why

But you are also entitled to your opinion and post too. Was just answering your why, from my perspective.

Fair point....but I did see the same on another thread of their's tonight and it doesn't look good when you see the op on a thread and just know it's going to be all but a public hanging. X

Employed people are far more secure than self employed.

After 2 years with a company its fucking hard work to fire somone.

And how many self employed people get fired?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself?

That's one of the best burns I've witnessed. Kudos.

Yeah this is a solid burn. I'd apply some water to the effected area immediately op"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nope, some of the self-employed people I know are the most disorganised people I know

Well considering your in cloud cuckoo land I'm not surprised!!

Of course that'll be it. How observant of you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I went self employed 17 years ago mainly because i got tired of working for dickheads. I thought it would mean a better quality of life though i've ended up working harder than ever but i know i'd never go back. The real advantage is in the flexibility it provides and not having to ask anyone's permission to take a day off. Yes, multiple plates are kept spinning, sometimes it's downright frantic and i love every minute of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm self employed and probably the most disorganised person I know "
Same here ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

...my other half is self employed and the most disorganised person I know!

Now I'm retired he wants me to help organise him...yeah...right!"

I can relate to this

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By *ex LutherMan
over a year ago

Closer than you think

"I'm self employed and probably the most disorganised person I know Same here ...

Me too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you're employed, you probably won't be able to see it

Or perhaps you've a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect yourself?

That's one of the best burns I've witnessed. Kudos.

Yeah this is a solid burn. I'd apply some water to the effected area immediately op

*affected... god damn it past me

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Nope i'm crap! On the upside my workshop is just outside the backdoor & i'm an insomniac so many a summer day is spent faffing about nodding off in the sunshine & summer nights spent working. Every cloud & all that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Yes, you can spend quite a bit of time quoting. But as time goes by, you get wiser. We give an overall price, if a customer wants a breakdown, that's chargeable.

While I don't know he nature of your work, bartering is not uncommon when quoting/tendering for work. You'd lose any chance of my custom with a smart arse dismissive comment like that

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Oh this is yet another look down at others thread

I've been both and I'm equally as organised in both situations.

Yes, you can spend quite a bit of time quoting. But as time goes by, you get wiser. We give an overall price, if a customer wants a breakdown, that's chargeable.

While I don't know he nature of your work, bartering is not uncommon when quoting/tendering for work. You'd lose any chance of my custom with a smart arse dismissive comment like that"

Odd isn't it?

Self employed person who doesn't haggle.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

Great thread and very informative...

The quote below

Thank you for sharing your experience.

"I went self employed 17 years ago mainly because i got tired of working for dickheads. I thought it would mean a better quality of life though i've ended up working harder than ever but i know i'd never go back. The real advantage is in the flexibility it provides and not having to ask anyone's permission to take a day off. Yes, multiple plates are kept spinning, sometimes it's downright frantic and i love every minute of it."

*coming back in later*

Need to post my experiences in here!!

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"One may argue that they have to?

I never worked so hard in my life as during the few years I ran my own business."

Me too, I had a business and was employed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have you too noticed how self employed people work quicker, are more organised, spin more plates (please ask if confused), challenge more and generally keep on top of things much better?"

Judging from the way I used to get given accounts and invoices from clients many years ago... erm no... i disagree... given 3 black bags of invoices and receipts a week before tax returns and asked can I sort it...

not really on top of things x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Main differences with being self employed is that if you're employed you get paid just for turning up

also hard to get rid of you if you're shite at you're job as it takes quite some time.

When your self employed you only get paid on performance and they can get rid of you at a moments notice without giving any reason.

I'm self employed and very happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I don't think it has kicked off into a battle between self-employed and employed. I think the overwhelming majority have thought the OP's opening statement is being too generalised (and rude) and have confirmed that. Then people have shared experiences of being emp or self-emp. I certainly am not indicating (from my perspective) that one type of employment has a better skilled worker than the other. Just pointing out the silliness of believing a polarised view of the world like that, and furthermore how offensive that is. I think people's comments on their own experiences are perfectly valid (even OP's, if they left room for being disapproved by those whose opinions counter theirs which they don't appear to do).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep, even when a was tipsy I made the right call on this one, milk, lemonade, chocolate. 86 it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

Regardless of whether you are self employed or on PAYE and regardless of your skill level the basic fact is that you are employed. You're working hard to provide the best you can for yourself and your family, not bleeding the state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh."

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wowzas! Yet another load of sweeping generalisation going on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid."

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid."

I have 'descriptions' for that kind of commentary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?"

I grew up just outside Sheffield at the height of the miner's strike. All my family were either working in steel or coal or in jobs connected to it, unemployment was 22%. I saw my father brought to his knees being made redundant 4 times during my childhood. People don't know the meaning of social deprivation these days.

My working life started age 15 after Norman Tebbit famously told us all to get on our bikes and chose farming as a way of getting a far away from what my family was faced with as possible. I moved south age 19, in all my years i have never once been on the dole, i've done jobs that i hated, some i've loved, i've worked for as little as £2.27 an hour, started at 4am and finished at 7pm 6 or 7 days a week. There's work there for those that really want it, people just need to be flexible. If you're in employment that's poorly paid there's tax credits to be had.

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't."

Your personal experiences are valid. I don't counter or dismiss them. You did just however, with a sweeping statement discount any experience different to you which is so narrow minded. You don't know everyone's experiences, have some compassion man, realise the potential that your experience doesn't cover everyone's or give you all encompassing knowledge. You refine your comment now to saying your issue is with those that refuse to work. Well, I put it to you that there is a very, very small minority that "refuse" (and I'm not including anyone in this who is unable to work) -- and even then I'd want to try and unpick why they refuse before condemning them, but possibly in that situation I'd be frustrated with them. Your earlier comment however was generalised, offensive twaddle. You should do better than perpetuating such stupid myths of those who do need welfare support, and think about what you mean and the impact of what you say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't.

Opinion is based on experience, this is where i come from, this is what i've done. If i can do it anyone can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't.

Opinion is based on experience, this is where i come from, this is what i've done. If i can do it anyone can. "

You are entirely missing my point. But I'll just leave Dunning-Kruger with you too, and leave you down the small end of the funnel of life. Have fun

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't.

Opinion is based on experience, this is where i come from, this is what i've done. If i can do it anyone can.

You are entirely missing my point. But I'll just leave Dunning-Kruger with you too, and leave you down the small end of the funnel of life. Have fun

Here is that Freddy-Krugers brother fs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All of them?

Of course, I am one of those that can but I know others I wouldn't give any work because they're all flash and spin with no substance or work ethic.

Spot on...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Blimey! It kicked off in here... this has become a battle between self employed and employed.

Love it

I've also not indicated which type of employment I have!

"Bleeding the state"? Blimey, here's another offensively sweeping remark. Detaching myself from any potential to agree with your viewpoint immediately. Ugh.

As the welfare state is often descibed as haemorrhaging money i feel the rhetoric is valid.

The simple fact is there is not enough jobs to go around.....and the few that are around do not pay enough wages for people to come of the benefit system.

So what would you do with the hemorrhaging system when the majority is working but not earning enough to live on?

My beef is with those that refuse to work, not those that can't.

Opinion is based on experience, this is where i come from, this is what i've done. If i can do it anyone can.

You are entirely missing my point. But I'll just leave Dunning-Kruger with you too, and leave you down the small end of the funnel of life. Have fun

I have never thought of myself as superior to others in any way nor do i consider my abilities to be in any way higher than they actually are, they merely are as they are.

It is the fact that i don't consider myself to be special or unique that draws me to the aforementioned conclusions. In this you are very much mistaken.