Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing some charity work but where the money really ends up is anyones guess...so i'll just say yeah "Poor choice of profile name for this thread... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes, by paying my taxes. South Sudan and Somalia are going to receive £100m each in UK aid from the DFID, the Government has announced recently." LOL and you believe that......lame stream media tosh. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing some charity work but where the money really ends up is anyones guess...so i'll just say yeah
Poor choice of profile name for this thread..."Good point...although not when you consider me pressing the F instead of the P by accident | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference." 
You can't solve Famine without first solving corruption.
The latter is almost impossible solve making the former also impossible to solve. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
I agree with Courtney the root causes are complex and unlikely to be solved any time soon.
What about you Clem? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa." Here's a small quote, though I recommend reading the whole passage: "And what did the great-hearted people of our culture say about this? Did they say, "We have foolishly helped these people destroy a way of living that worked well for them for millennia. We must let them return to living in balance with their resources, so that they will no longer be starving"? No, we said: "We must not let that happen. If we let that happen, it would cast doubt on the fact that ours is the one right way for people to live. If their own resources aren't enough to keep them alive, we'll graciously send them some of ours." The food we send doesn't stop them from starving. It just keeps them alive -- starving -- dependant on us for their lives -- year after year after year. And we congratulate ourselves for doing this. Having brought starvation to the people of Africa, we bless ourselves for keeping them alive, starving. And anyone who doesn't endorse keeping them alive and starving forever, is denounced as cold and heartless." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference." This. Having hitched from Cairo to Cape Town recently, a lot of what is said in the news is BS. I didn't see anyone starving when I was there - and I stayed with mainly locals in remote villages. I saw a lot of greed, corruption, mobile phones in said villages, veg fields that they do nothing with because many now want processed food. You give them £100m and it won't go on food for the masses, I'll tell you now. It's a lost continent sadly and no amount of eduction, money and charity is going to help. They need to learn how to help themselves as hand-outs aren't the answer. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Various parts of Africa have been facing famine since at least the 1980's and the british public have given billions over the years. All that money hasn't made a jot of difference and people are still starving. It's a desperate situation and i really don't know what the answer is. Maybe handing out contraceptives along with the food aid would help to reduce the birth rate and would help future generations to thrive in such difficult situations. Fewer mouths to feed would surely mean fewer people starving. I wish i could do more than just make the small donation i can afford. " Sterilisation would be the answer but the west already tried this in the 50s and came under fire, as it's not legal! They don't want the contraception they get already. Condoms - I've never seen so many available for free. I brought back hundreds as they don't want to use them and having more kids is seen as a status thing. They like spreading the seed. Maybe if we stopped trying to keep all these kids alive, they may realise it's a fruitless exercise, but many an African bloke would sooner buy liquor than feed his youngest offspring. Sad but true. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Famine and poverty is no unique tae Africa it's ubiquitous, just look at the number of kints in the UK who are having to rely on food banks, charity begins at home. " Sorry, but not in the same league. There aren't millions dying of starvation in the UK. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Various parts of Africa have been facing famine since at least the 1980's and the british public have given billions over the years. All that money hasn't made a jot of difference and people are still starving. It's a desperate situation and i really don't know what the answer is. Maybe handing out contraceptives along with the food aid would help to reduce the birth rate and would help future generations to thrive in such difficult situations. Fewer mouths to feed would surely mean fewer people starving. I wish i could do more than just make the small donation i can afford. " Just done a quick internet search. The population of Sudan has gone from 7 Million in the 1960's to 40 Million today. In a country that is hand-mouth, that population boom is difficult to feed. The country also has massive areas of land suitable to agriculture unused. If the aid was used to help develop this or the skills of the people would it be more useful? I really don't know, but something needs to be done to stop the root causes of lurching from one disaster to the next. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Famine and poverty is no unique tae Africa it's ubiquitous, just look at the number of kints in the UK who are having to rely on food banks, charity begins at home. Sorry, but not in the same league. There aren't millions dying of starvation in the UK." Aye I understand your point however people dying is people dying regardless of numbers, how can we possibly think of helping other countries when we can't even help those on our on doorstep? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Famine and poverty is no unique tae Africa it's ubiquitous, just look at the number of kints in the UK who are having to rely on food banks, charity begins at home. Sorry, but not in the same league. There aren't millions dying of starvation in the UK." If theres ever famine its usually in africa nothing changes there from one year to the next and any outside help which goes towards the people in need usually ends up in the wrong hands, very sad indeed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Famine and poverty is no unique tae Africa it's ubiquitous, just look at the number of kints in the UK who are having to rely on food banks, charity begins at home. Sorry, but not in the same league. There aren't millions dying of starvation in the UK. Aye I understand your point however people dying is people dying regardless of numbers, how can we possibly think of helping other countries when we can't even help those on our on doorstep?" There is help on our doorstep. We have a welfare system, and foodbanks are a further step where benefits cannot cover food (why, I don't know) , but those people aren't starving to death. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Famine and poverty is no unique tae Africa it's ubiquitous, just look at the number of kints in the UK who are having to rely on food banks, charity begins at home. Sorry, but not in the same league. There aren't millions dying of starvation in the UK. Aye I understand your point however people dying is people dying regardless of numbers, how can we possibly think of helping other countries when we can't even help those on our on doorstep? There is help on our doorstep. We have a welfare system, and foodbanks are a further step where benefits cannot cover food (why, I don't know) , but those people aren't starving to death." Again, yes, I understand your point, however I feel before jumping ship to help other countries we should pull our own socks up first. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just done a quick internet search. The population of Sudan has gone from 7 Million in the 1960's to 40 Million today. In a country that is hand-mouth, that population boom is difficult to feed." And this, I think, is the heart of the problem. Population growth is a global problem. It is most visible in places like Africa, where resources can't meet actual growth, but it a problem everywhere. If we don't think globally about what to do with our exploding population, then we better expect to see more of this in more places. Because if all we do is keep increasing food production, then we'll just make more people to starve and destroy more of the environment in the process. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. Here's a small quote, though I recommend reading the whole passage: "And what did the great-hearted people of our culture say about this? Did they say, "We have foolishly helped these people destroy a way of living that worked well for them for millennia. We must let them return to living in balance with their resources, so that they will no longer be starving"? No, we said: "We must not let that happen. If we let that happen, it would cast doubt on the fact that ours is the one right way for people to live. If their own resources aren't enough to keep them alive, we'll graciously send them some of ours." The food we send doesn't stop them from starving. It just keeps them alive -- starving -- dependant on us for their lives -- year after year after year. And we congratulate ourselves for doing this. Having brought starvation to the people of Africa, we bless ourselves for keeping them alive, starving. And anyone who doesn't endorse keeping them alive and starving forever, is denounced as cold and heartless."" Stop giving "aid" is the real answer, it's never worked as the ideal that was imagined, possibly contributing to causing more loss of life than actually saved... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"First things first,why are they still having loads of kids? Why would you bring a child into this world of no food and water? " Read my earlier posts. No one wants to face the facts it appears. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. Here's a small quote, though I recommend reading the whole passage: "And what did the great-hearted people of our culture say about this? Did they say, "We have foolishly helped these people destroy a way of living that worked well for them for millennia. We must let them return to living in balance with their resources, so that they will no longer be starving"? No, we said: "We must not let that happen. If we let that happen, it would cast doubt on the fact that ours is the one right way for people to live. If their own resources aren't enough to keep them alive, we'll graciously send them some of ours." The food we send doesn't stop them from starving. It just keeps them alive -- starving -- dependant on us for their lives -- year after year after year. And we congratulate ourselves for doing this. Having brought starvation to the people of Africa, we bless ourselves for keeping them alive, starving. And anyone who doesn't endorse keeping them alive and starving forever, is denounced as cold and heartless." Stop giving "aid" is the real answer, it's never worked as the ideal that was imagined, possibly contributing to causing more loss of life than actually saved..." You try telling a do-gooder to stop giving aid! Never gonna happen. Unless you've been there then most just think it's like something out of a Live Aid video. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. Here's a small quote, though I recommend reading the whole passage: "And what did the great-hearted people of our culture say about this? Did they say, "We have foolishly helped these people destroy a way of living that worked well for them for millennia. We must let them return to living in balance with their resources, so that they will no longer be starving"? No, we said: "We must not let that happen. If we let that happen, it would cast doubt on the fact that ours is the one right way for people to live. If their own resources aren't enough to keep them alive, we'll graciously send them some of ours." The food we send doesn't stop them from starving. It just keeps them alive -- starving -- dependant on us for their lives -- year after year after year. And we congratulate ourselves for doing this. Having brought starvation to the people of Africa, we bless ourselves for keeping them alive, starving. And anyone who doesn't endorse keeping them alive and starving forever, is denounced as cold and heartless." Stop giving "aid" is the real answer, it's never worked as the ideal that was imagined, possibly contributing to causing more loss of life than actually saved... You try telling a do-gooder to stop giving aid! Never gonna happen. Unless you've been there then most just think it's like something out of a Live Aid video." I agree though - that's the real answer. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I remember back to the mid 80s when my regiment went to Kenya for a few months. We were in Northern Kenya for a few weeks near the Ethiopian border. We saw plenty of people starving. Children walking around in rags. No food in their bellys and no hope in their eyes. We fed as many as we could with our rations. I saw hardened infantry men , me amongst them cry. Yes we have needy in this country. But a child is a child. Black , white , African or British. " Dont think anybody will dispute that fact,but sending money to africa is not the answer | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I remember back to the mid 80s when my regiment went to Kenya for a few months. We were in Northern Kenya for a few weeks near the Ethiopian border. We saw plenty of people starving. Children walking around in rags. No food in their bellys and no hope in their eyes. We fed as many as we could with our rations. I saw hardened infantry men , me amongst them cry. Yes we have needy in this country. But a child is a child. Black , white , African or British. Dont think anybody will dispute that fact,but sending money to africa is not the answer" Absolutely and I wish charities would stop spending massive amounts of cash on TV advertising. Millions wasted on this but if misinformed people didn't keep donating the amounts they clearly do, charities wouldn't keep doing this. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it?" making some fried eggs...i could post one out? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I remember back to the mid 80s when my regiment went to Kenya for a few months. We were in Northern Kenya for a few weeks near the Ethiopian border. We saw plenty of people starving. Children walking around in rags. No food in their bellys and no hope in their eyes. We fed as many as we could with our rations. I saw hardened infantry men , me amongst them cry. Yes we have needy in this country. But a child is a child. Black , white , African or British. Dont think anybody will dispute that fact,but sending money to africa is not the answer" What you did along with your regiment no one can dispute was the right thing to do and no child should die for lack of water or food, I have and always will be in awe of people like you who have made a real difference including charities like Oxfam and Unicef and will continue to support them... As a country we are pledged to give over 9 billion in foreign aid during 2017/2018. This aid has recently been used to build roads that are unfinished and unused, shopping malls for the already wealthy to use plus businesses in coalition with other global companies that in turn will not pay the workers a liveable wage... It is this "aid" that is misused and squandered which needs to stop and be accounted for... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s not food it’s not birth control but it IS money…in the WRONG hands. Think of it as a great big fucking wall between the big guy and the little guy. This wall prevents the big guy from stepping on the little guy, unfortunately, it also prevents the little guy from ever BECOMING a big guy. For that to happen, you have to take the wall away - but then the big guy stomps all over the little guy, unless you put a wall over top of the big guy to keep him from getting too big. It's called corruption, politics and mass control. And by mass control, I don't mean STOP having kids, I mean governments controlling what side of THAT^ wall the masses are on. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s not food it’s not birth control but it IS money…in the WRONG hands. Think of it as a great big fucking wall between the big guy and the little guy. This wall prevents the big guy from stepping on the little guy, unfortunately, it also prevents the little guy from ever BECOMING a big guy. For that to happen, you have to take the wall away - but then the big guy stomps all over the little guy, unless you put a wall over top of the big guy to keep him from getting too big. It's called corruption, politics and mass control. And by mass control, I don't mean STOP having kids, I mean governments controlling what side of THAT^ wall the masses are on. " You give money/power/food to any 'little' guy in Africa and they will screw over the even littler guys. You put a little guy in the place of a big guy and he does exactly the same thing. Ask anyone in Africa training to be a politician 'why' and he'll say 'because I want to be rich'. It's a culture that no one can change and trying to impose western ways on them is fucking up the while system. So limiting money/food/charity is the only answer. Eradicating corruption - which stems from the root - is to kill it off. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it?" haven't you heard of "overseas aid" multi billions each year, shame we don't spend the same on our UK pensioners and ones in need of help in UK | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Ask anyone in Africa training to be a politician 'why' and he'll say 'because I want to be rich'. It's a culture that no one can change and trying to impose western ways on them is fucking up the while system. So limiting money/food/charity is the only answer. Eradicating corruption - which stems from the root - is to kill it off."
That's what I mean by "wall". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference." Same, I'm now 45 and have been giving to charities for food and water since I was about 10.. it's done bugger all, when they stop shooting at eachother and try to build a civilisation I may reconsider, until then it's good money after bad. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference. Same, I'm now 45 and have been giving to charities for food and water since I was about 10.. it's done bugger all, when they stop shooting at eachother and try to build a civilisation I may reconsider, until then it's good money after bad." The people who are starving generally aren't the one shooting . They are the innocent civilians caught up in it . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference. Same, I'm now 45 and have been giving to charities for food and water since I was about 10.. it's done bugger all, when they stop shooting at eachother and try to build a civilisation I may reconsider, until then it's good money after bad. The people who are starving generally aren't the one shooting . They are the innocent civilians caught up in it . " Indeed this is true, but when the aid and money is blatantly not getting through, a new system is needed as the current model is flawed. Ps: put me on a plane and let me help dig a well andnif all for it (sadly even volunteering is expencive as hell now) I just won't hand any more cash over. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have donated in the past to African issues. Doubt I will this time. I have a limited amount I donate, and I now give reguarly to local charities as I can see the changes it can make. " This is what we do now | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't know what to do. So I support Oxfam and The Red Cross. I don't know if it's doing any good." You may as well burn the money than give it to Oxfam. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Ask anyone in Africa training to be a politician 'why' and he'll say 'because I want to be rich'. It's a culture that no one can change and trying to impose western ways on them is fucking up the while system. So limiting money/food/charity is the only answer. Eradicating corruption - which stems from the root - is to kill it off.
That's what I mean by "wall"." Gotcha.
I could talk about Africa all day long.
I get people can do what they want with their own money, but western folk who send money over there without taking the time to study the culture or understanding the damage it's actually causing - just to give themselves a pat on the back - infuriate me.
Rant over, for today  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If anyone'e interested in the subject of this thread, there's a very good book I can recommend called 'Why Nations Fail', by Aron Acemoglu and James A. Robinson. A favourite of David Cameron's as I recall, but don't let that put you off..." I'll look this one up. Have a read of 'Africa in Chaos' - intense but accurate, if anyone's wondering whether aid is the answer. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference. This. Having hitched from Cairo to Cape Town recently, a lot of what is said in the news is BS. I didn't see anyone starving when I was there - and I stayed with mainly locals in remote villages. I saw a lot of greed, corruption, mobile phones in said villages, veg fields that they do nothing with because many now want processed food. You give them £100m and it won't go on food for the masses, I'll tell you now. It's a lost continent sadly and no amount of eduction, money and charity is going to help. They need to learn how to help themselves as hand-outs aren't the answer." I totally agree with you! We thought we would save the work with 'Band Aid' over 30 years ago yet still we have the same issues. I think many of us have become conditioned to seeing the suffering on the TV over the years and just think oh for heavens sake not again! It seems to be a bottomless pit. I am very suspicious as to where all the money we send goes to and therefore don't feel inclined to feed Africa, I would rather feed the poor homeless soul I see in the shop doorway in my own town. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Has anyone here ever read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? It has a very interesting passage about starvation in Africa. To answer the OP, I'm not doing anything about it, really. The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference." True. The problem lies within the corrupt government. That's where money goes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Nope. We have for 50 years pumped charity money into countries that are economically capable to more than look after themselves but lack the political will to be anything other than be abjectly corrupt. Also... I note that the money given at this end doesn't get to people at the other end. Now am not silly enough to think magical it will... I appreciate everything has a cost. However on establishing that these costs frequently include the paying off of warlords to facilitate safe transfer of food, medicine or materials is am afraid not on... Also... the Haiti fund which was the last thing I gave too... currently holds 400m in public donations in a bank all unspent... the target homes built figure is at this stage less than 10% of the original figure. And over 80% of the population still do not have access to clean water and can be considered displaced... In short charity is a business and dispite what it masquerades as the majority are just that. Imo" It's not just a 'IMO' - it's fact. Don't get me started on World Vision. I went for an interview with them a few years back and was shocked at what they disclosed - about how they generate money 'by targeting naive wealthy people' in various parts of Cheshire and London. Was disgusted to see the type of cars they were all driving and cash they were splurging on trips abroad. Vile. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Have to agree with everything "Mrs Robinson" has said, don't get me started on what the CEO's and managers of some of these organisations pay themselves." Thank you
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have a mate whose roots are in South Sudan, luckily all his family are out of the area now. It's so sad that this kind of thing can happen in this day and age. I contribute to a cancer charity as both ma parents succumbed to it "isn't there a remake of roots? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Contraception is the first thing needed, they continue to breed with absolutely no means of raising the children, why would anyone bring children to the world with no means of looking after them, if no contraception then castration as for food and water, I will leave that to Geldof & Bono to donate their multi millions" There's loads of free contraception - most refuse to use it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . " I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness!" Hence why I didn't say I'm every rural area or in every country . I realise that isn't the case everywhere but is in some places | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness!" don't you get 3 monthly injections for contraception, they seem to pop kids out like there is no tomorrow | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness! don't you get 3 monthly injections for contraception, they seem to pop kids out like there is no tomorrow" Who is 'they' | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have a mate whose roots are in South Sudan, luckily all his family are out of the area now. It's so sad that this kind of thing can happen in this day and age. I contribute to a cancer charity as both ma parents succumbed to it
isn't there a remake of roots?"What the hell has that got to do with anything | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness! don't you get 3 monthly injections for contraception, they seem to pop kids out like there is no tomorrow Who is 'they' " I'd say he means Africans | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness! don't you get 3 monthly injections for contraception, they seem to pop kids out like there is no tomorrow" You do but as I keep saying, they don't want it. You can't force them to have it. Most don't really think about how their actions today impact tomorrow either. Litter is everywhere and they shit and throw junk in the rivers they drink from. It's a lost cause. Africa hurts my head. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" It's a lost cause. Africa hurts my head. "It's the war crimes that happen every day to their own people, mainly women and children, including starving them while the world stands back watching the end result that is intolerable... Percentage wise a lot smaller but the UK has also has people who really shouldn't be having children either... xx
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I read that since the first live aid the population has doubled. Nothing ever grows there. No rain. No rivers flow. Yet with aid, the population doubles." africa exports masses of food. The developed nations there irrigate the land and the huge amount of sun gives excelent growing conditions. Whats interesting is the sahara is below sea level and could be flooded changing the climate of the whole continent | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" africa exports masses of food. The developed nations there irrigate the land and the huge amount of sun gives excelent growing conditions. Whats interesting is the sahara is below sea level and could be flooded changing the climate of the whole continent " Israel have done a version of it albeit on a smaller scale compared to the Sahara... Not going to start on globalisation companies, that's best done in politics forum  ...
xx | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing some charity work but where the money really ends up is anyones guess...so i'll just say yeah
Poor choice of profile name for this thread..."Sorry but this made me chortle. As you were  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it? Yes on a small scale "Did that the other day by text donation and ended up with a call centre trying to sign me up to a monthly "donation plan" that a London letting agent would be happy with ...
xx | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" It's a lost cause. Africa hurts my head.
It's the war crimes that happen every day to their own people, mainly women and children, including starving them while the world stands back watching the end result that is intolerable...
Percentage wise a lot smaller but the UK has also has people who really shouldn't be having children either...
xx
"The war crimes are partly caused by the west, so we're not going to interfere on that front. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Meh give them more food they jist breed untill thier starving again and now you have to keep giving them food or you're responsible for all the deaths when you remove the aid" I liken it to trying to fill a bucket with holes in it. Pointless. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"One thing that bothers me about this thread is Africa seems to be being discussed as if it's one country . Africa is made up of many countries all with different issues and different strengths . Yes in lots of them their poverty line is a lot lower than hours but actual famine is few and far between . With regards to contraception , in rural areas of a lot of African countries hospitals are hundreds of miles away so I'm not sure exactly how they are expected to get their hands on contraception . However in these rural areas they are also self sufficient and aren't sitting waiting for handouts . I agree with you about famine - it is few and far between. However I picked up all my condoms in remote villages and in many rural areas I got harassed for hand outs. The world isn't a disconnected as you think. I was two hours into the mountains of Rwanda and I saw an indigenous woman pull a mobile phone from inside her robe. There's charging points in remote villages now. Madness! don't you get 3 monthly injections for contraception, they seem to pop kids out like there is no tomorrow Who is 'they' I'd say he means Africans" Exactly why this thread has annoyed me then | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The problems are systemic and I'm not convinced individual help would make much of a difference.
You can't solve Famine without first solving corruption.
The latter is almost impossible solve making the former also impossible to solve."This. Go to those countries, and look at the lifestyles of the rulers, despots, war-lords, dictators, heads of government and all their hangers-on, many of whom are family members with no idea how to run a country. I cant deny that war, drought, and other man-made and natural disasters contribute, but "we" (those who raise money, and governments) have poured millions and millions of pounds into the area, and it hasn't made a huge difference.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Meh give them more food they jist breed untill thier starving again and now you have to keep giving them food or you're responsible for all the deaths when you remove the aid I liken it to trying to fill a bucket with holes in it. Pointless." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it " Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... "
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... " Well said
It's not the fault of the poor that some of the money doesn't get to them. People should look at the work of an organisation like Save the Children, who are helping people make real improvements to their lives. Target your donations towards the organisations you have confidence in, but don't stop them altogether. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... Well said
It's not the fault of the poor that some of the money doesn't get to them. People should look at the work of an organisation like Save the Children, who are helping people make real improvements to their lives. Target your donations towards the organisations you have confidence in, but don't stop them altogether."I think you will find everyone in UK who pays tax is donating, Scottish government has made a donation pledge today and UK government has said it will match the first £5Million in donations I donate to charities, and in the past I have donated to African cries for help, but the only donation from myself this time will be through my taxation I have what I consider far better charities to donate to. my choice. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... " You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... Well said
It's not the fault of the poor that some of the money doesn't get to them. People should look at the work of an organisation like Save the Children, who are helping people make real improvements to their lives. Target your donations towards the organisations you have confidence in, but don't stop them altogether."Bill and Melinda gates foundation has some admirable goals wirh its medical research | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets" Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... " I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it?" Yes- I bunged a tenner at Save The Children. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid." Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... " Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses" Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ......" I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist" Ahhhh...for the greater good? What's that from? The Hunger Games? Where does that end? Maybe put contraceptives in their water to stop them breeding? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist" Saving a life now does not doom future generations.... Children we helped years ago are now doctors nurses teachers and pillars of their community helping defeat the long term objective of making a better life for future generations ,,,, there is no quick fix | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist Saving a life now does not doom future generations.... Children we helped years ago are now doctors nurses teachers and pillars of their community helping defeat the long term objective of making a better life for future generations ,,,, there is no quick fix " But the vast majorty of aid rexipients arent doctors or nurses or teachers are they. They the parents of another 5 starving mputbs who will eaxh be the parents to 5 more starving mpuths and so on | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist Ahhhh...for the greater good? What's that from? The Hunger Games? Where does that end? Maybe put contraceptives in their water to stop them breeding?" It ends where it starts i suppose. Stop providing them with food. Interesting experiment to read that currently parallels human society "rat utopia". Its as macabre an experiment as i can think of but its disturbingly accurate in reteospect | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it?" Is this the name of a rock band and their first album??? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist Saving a life now does not doom future generations.... Children we helped years ago are now doctors nurses teachers and pillars of their community helping defeat the long term objective of making a better life for future generations ,,,, there is no quick fix But the vast majorty of aid rexipients arent doctors or nurses or teachers are they. They the parents of another 5 starving mputbs who will eaxh be the parents to 5 more starving mpuths and so on" The point I'm making is those we show compassion and support too have the potential to build a better future for themselves and for future generation..... unless of course you chose to be one of those people of a persuasion that advocates an immediate solution to on-going humanitarian crisis is simply to turn you back and let them suffer and die whilst pontificating from the comfort of their keyboard | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses" Nope. Population crisis, ahoy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist Saving a life now does not doom future generations.... Children we helped years ago are now doctors nurses teachers and pillars of their community helping defeat the long term objective of making a better life for future generations ,,,, there is no quick fix But the vast majorty of aid rexipients arent doctors or nurses or teachers are they. They the parents of another 5 starving mputbs who will eaxh be the parents to 5 more starving mpuths and so on The point I'm making is those we show compassion and support too have the potential to build a better future for themselves and for future generation..... unless of course you chose to be one of those people of a persuasion that advocates an immediate solution to on-going humanitarian crisis is simply to turn you back and let them suffer and die whilst pontificating from the comfort of their keyboard " But this isnt a solution it is the cause of the humanitarian crisis. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... I can see your point but can you see how incorrectly providing aid perpetuates the cycle. More children are born into these conditions than if there was no aid. Until you've spent time living in that environment its almost impossible to quantify the many contributing factors which are partly responsible for the various crisis situation manifest in the suffering of those people who are ill equipped to control much of their own destiny..... I don't dispute there are situations where continued aid does help perpetuate the problems but I like to think the people of this privileged country would not tolerate the sight of a child dying on UK streets because of the failings of local administration or the effect of corruption...... Would these children even exist to suffer if it wasnt for aid though in many csses Without wishing to sound dismissive of that question I cant turn away and allow a child to suffer or die just because of some principle that queries the merits of whether they should even be in that position ...... I supose it boils down to do you save one life today and doom 100 to die in the future or let the one die today and the 100 never exist Saving a life now does not doom future generations.... Children we helped years ago are now doctors nurses teachers and pillars of their community helping defeat the long term objective of making a better life for future generations ,,,, there is no quick fix But the vast majorty of aid rexipients arent doctors or nurses or teachers are they. They the parents of another 5 starving mputbs who will eaxh be the parents to 5 more starving mpuths and so on" True. No they're not. The idealistic romantic view of where the aid has gone is great, but not realistic. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... " Nope. But the 'shite' in this thread comes about from experience, first-hand accounts and a year spent living with locals, from top to bottom of Africa. If you're going back frequently to build wells and there's still crisis - then surely something is amiss. Pumping money into this broken bucket has been going on since pre-85/Live Aid. I've held the dying and the hopeless, but at the end if the day, I'm a realist who questions everything. I'm not blindly led by emotion. I know a few people who are 'coordinating' projects in Africa and it tends to be led by the same types- white middle to upper class, never had to suffer a day in their life, going over to the 'poorer continent' for self-gratification purposes. Good for you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So in essence the concensus seems to be... a) it's not my problem b) they're asking for it Not including this fella...... I have no problem that some people do not wish to donate, I have no issues with people who feel the problems should be met by the local government of the nations directly involved... What does ranker me the notion that those who don't g actively involved in offering aid choose to voice a poisonous opinion that could influence someone against making a donation that might have ultimately saved a child's life..... I've spent time actively volunteering in Africa every year bar 2 since 2004 and some of the crap I've read in this thread is misguided and quite frankly fucking shameful ..... You ever gone back to an area youve helped before? Cause a friend of mine went out doing water pumps years back by the time he went bsck the next year and went tonvisit some people he met the locals had stripped nearly all the pumps for parts for thier own stuff. Plus given the expense of many charities on adervtising and collection you csn argue for a great many people thier donations will never see a child or any one in need but simply western pockets Yes I've returned to many locations where we drilled water wells or installed purification systems and the majority were still providing those communities with an essential provision of safe water..... we also support a mobile field hospital which travels to remote communities and crisis area delivering vital medical services ,,,,,, Much of the shite I've read in this thread I can only imagine was written by people who've never held a child dying of preventable starvation or waterborne disease or indeed the horror of conflict,,,,, perhaps having looked into the graves of countless children prejudices my view but those people who put their energy into decrying the value of donating are basically the most shameful example of the human condition....... Nope. But the 'shite' in this thread comes about from experience, first-hand accounts and a year spent living with locals, from top to bottom of Africa. If you're going back frequently to build wells and there's still crisis - then surely something is amiss. Pumping money into this broken bucket has been going on since pre-85/Live Aid. I've held the dying and the hopeless, but at the end if the day, I'm a realist who questions everything. I'm not blindly led by emotion. I know a few people who are 'coordinating' projects in Africa and it tends to be led by the same types- white middle to upper class, never had to suffer a day in their life, going over to the 'poorer continent' for self-gratification purposes. Good for you." Awesome . So now we aren't just merging the whole of Africa together but also generalising about people helping | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Doing anything about it?" I donated 12 fishing rods and a fishing for beginners book. I think this approach will be more beneficial | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Nope. But the 'shite' in this thread comes about from experience, first-hand accounts and a year spent living with locals, from top to bottom of Africa. If you're going back frequently to build wells and there's still crisis - then surely something is amiss. Pumping money into this broken bucket has been going on since pre-85/Live Aid. I've held the dying and the hopeless, but at the end if the day, I'm a realist who questions everything. I'm not blindly led by emotion. I know a few people who are 'coordinating' projects in Africa and it tends to be led by the same types- white middle to upper class, never had to suffer a day in their life, going over to the 'poorer continent' for self-gratification purposes. Good for you." Strange in all the years I've been involved I've not encountered these people you describe as middle to upper-middle class UK citizen led by emotion and seeking self gratification having spent carefree lives without gaining any experience of personal suffering In fact I'd go so far as to say your experience is about as inconsistent as its possible to get with the reality I've encountered during my involvement ..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Nope. But the 'shite' in this thread comes about from experience, first-hand accounts and a year spent living with locals, from top to bottom of Africa. If you're going back frequently to build wells and there's still crisis - then surely something is amiss. Pumping money into this broken bucket has been going on since pre-85/Live Aid. I've held the dying and the hopeless, but at the end if the day, I'm a realist who questions everything. I'm not blindly led by emotion. I know a few people who are 'coordinating' projects in Africa and it tends to be led by the same types- white middle to upper class, never had to suffer a day in their life, going over to the 'poorer continent' for self-gratification purposes. Good for you. Strange in all the years I've been involved I've not encountered these people you describe as middle to upper-middle class UK citizen led by emotion and seeking self gratification having spent carefree lives without gaining any experience of personal suffering In fact I'd go so far as to say your experience is about as inconsistent as its possible to get with the reality I've encountered during my involvement ..... " You think the leople earning hundreds of k incharge of these projects are working class people whove suffered not middle class people with degrees in business? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Nope. But the 'shite' in this thread comes about from experience, first-hand accounts and a year spent living with locals, from top to bottom of Africa. If you're going back frequently to build wells and there's still crisis - then surely something is amiss. Pumping money into this broken bucket has been going on since pre-85/Live Aid. I've held the dying and the hopeless, but at the end if the day, I'm a realist who questions everything. I'm not blindly led by emotion. I know a few people who are 'coordinating' projects in Africa and it tends to be led by the same types- white middle to upper class, never had to suffer a day in their life, going over to the 'poorer continent' for self-gratification purposes. Good for you. Strange in all the years I've been involved I've not encountered these people you describe as middle to upper-middle class UK citizen led by emotion and seeking self gratification having spent carefree lives without gaining any experience of personal suffering In fact I'd go so far as to say your experience is about as inconsistent as its possible to get with the reality I've encountered during my involvement ..... You think the leople earning hundreds of k incharge of these projects are working class people whove suffered not middle class people with degrees in business?" I refer you back to my earlier post where I suggest if people wish to pledge monies they would be wise to select a charity that actually delivers the value of their donation..... We are not dealing with statistics we are simply trying to ease suffering and save lives by humanitarian guestutre | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
