FabSwingers.com forum: Holy shit is mumsnet transphobic

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So following s post on another forum ended up reading the mums net forum the feminism/am i being unreasonable sections are absolutly full of rants against trans prople with regard to the new gender idenity bill.

The general assumption seems to be that trans people are really just male perverts wanting to spy on women in changing rooms (they completley ignote that ftm exist).

Got me thinking though on here as well nearly all the vitrolic posts against trans people comes from women and its also on nearly every feminist page/fb group atm too.

Anyone got any reasons behind why women seem so anti trans on the whole? (This forum is obvispusly going to be skewed towards acceptance due to the fact many have had actuall interaction with trans people plus a slightly more liberal view)

One interesting point raised was that for many third wave femininist and women in a wider sense is that being a woman is an "identity" much more than being a man is to men.

Men are just men really, we dont tend to think of our gender as being a "thing", while there is plenty of comments such as "as a woman in business, im a strong powerful woman etc affirmations that it seems key to some peoples identities.

Your thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have friends in america who have dealt with this argument with others (my friends are all LGBT supporters) and what a lot of it unfortunately is really ignorance they believe most are still the garden variety cross dresser doing it for sexual kicks.

They cannot understand that anyone male or female would wish to change their sexuality completely and even when they have undergone many surgeries which could all have gone wrong and arent reversible and are for all intents and purposes male or female despite their chromosome makeup.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never seen any vitriolic posts by women against trans people on here...

Must be looking in the wrong places

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

seen in the news last week that another TS was killed just for being a TS, and that really upset me.

these people, and their vile views, perpetuate that, imo.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I've never seen any vitriolic posts by women against trans people on here...

Must be looking in the wrong places

Indigo40 posts in nearly any trans thread?

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville

Holy poo that's a deep post for this time OP!

As mum to a cross dressing son who I (and he) for a while thought maybe TG, I find the whole thing distasteful. People should accept people. Simples.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Holy poo that's a deep post for this time OP!

As mum to a cross dressing son who I (and he) for a while thought maybe TG, I find the whole thing distasteful. People should accept people. Simples."

I work nights this is like midday for me lol

There is huge oposition to the gender identity bill atm from feminist groups and sites like mumsnet.

There is a wide opinion that giving rights to transpeople.is taking rights away from women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From what I've read on mumsnet the people on there need to pull their heads out of their own arse.

It just strikes me as full of the type of people who drive their "little angles" 300 yards down the road to school in their range rover and might as well park in the teachers desk they get that close to the gates.

Full of vile people on there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just had a quick glance through Mumsnet Feminism forum.While not all the contributors could be said to be 100% trans friendly or completely sympathetic towards the 'cause' of trans people,most of the discussion seemed to be done in a fairly respectful,accepting and non judgemental tone. There does seem to be some genuine concern about people with male anatomy entering female spaces (changing rooms more so than toilets)it did not seem to be the kind of knee jerk reaction about perverts trying to spy on people that some people express.

That particular area of Mumsnet may not be totally comfortable with trans people but they did seem to be discussing the matter in a reasonable way,not necessarily transphobic in my view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mumsnet seems to be populated by a certain type of person. Perhaps prejudice or ignorance or genuine worry that predator men will use the law to enable them to attack women.

I think there's far 'easier opportunities' for predator men to attack women than putting a dress on and going to women's toilets.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find mumsnets quite toxic as a whole.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I know what you mean! I had a chat with a woman that went something like this .."I understand that it's possible to be born into the wrong sex body, but why are the women born into men's body's the type of women who enjoy ten man bukakee gangbangs!"

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"I find mumsnets quite toxic as a whole.

Its not really a broad church of opinion, dissenting opinions get very shrift.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've never seen any vitriolic posts by women against trans people on here...

Must be looking in the wrong places

Indigo40 posts in nearly any trans thread?"

so just the one then?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I've never seen any vitriolic posts by women against trans people on here...

Must be looking in the wrong places

Indigo40 posts in nearly any trans thread?

so just the one then? "

No there are usualy quote a few souting how they are men and always will be etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not exactly a hotbed of warmth and comfort for parents seeking advice, support and understanding either, so i'm not suprised to be honest.

Thank goodness other parenting forums are available..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's not exactly a hotbed of warmth and comfort for parents seeking advice, support and understanding either, so i'm not suprised to be honest.

Thank goodness other parenting forums are available.."

The concerning thing is just how much political influence they have with mps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not exactly a hotbed of warmth and comfort for parents seeking advice, support and understanding either, so i'm not suprised to be honest.

Thank goodness other parenting forums are available..

The concerning thing is just how much political influence they have with mps."

They are always the "go to" site for mmedia sources too. And i don't know why. The site is well known for it's bullying and lack of support (not all, before anyone jumps on me!), so why it is still held in high regard beats me.

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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

"It's not exactly a hotbed of warmth and comfort for parents seeking advice, support and understanding either, so i'm not suprised to be honest.

Thank goodness other parenting forums are available..

The concerning thing is just how much political influence they have with mps.

the people who run it. they've got connections.

netmums is better anyway, i got to talk to nick clegg and ask him if he regretted joining the tories.

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By *anky_PankyWoman
over a year ago

Filthy Fuckeryville

"Holy poo that's a deep post for this time OP!

As mum to a cross dressing son who I (and he) for a while thought maybe TG, I find the whole thing distasteful. People should accept people. Simples.

I work nights this is like midday for me lol

There is huge oposition to the gender identity bill atm from feminist groups and sites like mumsnet.

There is a wide opinion that giving rights to transpeople.is taking rights away from women"

I can't say it's the type of site I would use.

Besides, they'd probably only label me a pervert too for being on here

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By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"It's not exactly a hotbed of warmth and comfort for parents seeking advice, support and understanding either, so i'm not suprised to be honest.

Thank goodness other parenting forums are available..

The concerning thing is just how much political influence they have with mps.

The site owners have friends in high places. One of the owners, Justine Roberts is the partner of Ian Katz a guardian journalist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One interesting point raised was that for many third wave femininist and women in a wider sense is that being a woman is an "identity" much more than being a man is to men."

You've missed something here Thx - the reason why this identity matters is because of gender inequalities. Many factions of feminism have at their core the idea that in present society women are "second class citizens", exploited systematically because of their reproductive vulnerability, with men benefiting at large from this exploitation. So in a universe were the men are the oppressors and the women are the oppressed, to give "men" the ability to self-identify as women and ask women to accept them as one of their lot is offensive - as a disenfranchised group retaining this identity is crucial.

You have probably heard of the argument of socialisation - that the experiences of our formative years shape us into men/women, with the two genders being treated differently from birth; that men who have benefited from these attitudes carry this experience even after transitioning. An example: trans activist and journalist Paris Lees wrote that women should chill out about men's catcalls and enjoy them like she does, as the flattering ego boost that they are; radical feminists pointed out that she had opted into this objectification in a way that most cis women don't get a chance to, and that she didn't share in the experience of being sexually harassed - and conditioned to accept it without protest - from a very young age like most women do.

Now, for most people in the west, third wave is a dinosaur (btw the mumsnet lot are a perfect example of the caricature third wave feminist - privileged, self-serving and entitled). There are many reasons why this type of feminism is not relevant anymore, but mainly it is exactly because it effectively worked to bridge many of the gender inequalities already.

However, sexism and misogyny are still as rampant as ever. Personally I find it disturbing that dissenting voices like say Greer's are being shut down as hate speech. Ironically the most important (and fatal) struggles that trans women face are not because of the hostile influence of feminism but because of the same sexism and misogyny all women are faced with (and yes, trans men hardly get a mention because they are not an offense to the status quo - if men are the "real" human and women are "the other", a woman who wants to be a man is sensible, but a man who wants to be a woman is repugnant).

Lastly, the general assumption is that LGBT would be supportive of the trans agenda but this is not necessarily the case. It is truly fascinating to see how arguments between these groups both conflate and clash at different points.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I've hardly used that site but feel more reluctance to now. The UK is generally more open to transgender issues and rights than large swathes of the USA Imo.

Should the LGB of LGBT, which are sexual orientation identities be associated with T, which is a gender identity? Obviously there are others included in this acronym now too - I'm leaving them aside, for simplicity.

In the swinging world we know there's some inclusion of gay and bi sex but some clubs still frown on it, outside of designated events. And transgender people get some inclusion too, though often not equal service standards as cis equivalents. So not right and far from perfect - but we have a solid presence on the scene and in fab. I've been here for years and years and I'm probably partly immune to the frequently repeated 'man in knickers' etc remarks. There's a little here but sounds a lot better than mumsnet, thank goodness.

O know fab is no guarantee of openmindedness but we do have some positives, for all our sins!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These vitriolic posts are probably by women with moustaches that feel threatened/insecure when they see images of men passing themselves as female and can't take the fact that they make for better looking 'ladies' than they do!

I can only imagine the self righteous indignation!

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