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"Northern, Merseyrail and southern. Going to be fun getting into work, sigh" It's like they've spoke to each other and planned it isn't it? | |||
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"I remember someone saying to me,'Management gets the unions they deserve.' In the case of Southern Trains, I agree. I can't comment on the other two train companies. " I hadn't heard that quote before, but as a daily user of Northern Trains I'd say it was probably spot on. Antiquated rolling-stock and under-sized trains for peak time services show what they think of the passengers who pay for the service, so heaven knows how they treat their employees. | |||
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Deep breath to those that aren't  | |||
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"I remember someone saying to me,'Management gets the unions they deserve.' In the case of Southern Trains, I agree. I can't comment on the other two train companies. I hadn't heard that quote before, but as a daily user of Northern Trains I'd say it was probably spot on. Antiquated rolling-stock and under-sized trains for peak time services show what they think of the passengers who pay for the service, so heaven knows how they treat their employees." It's the implementation of new rolling stock that's the cause of the problem 
There's a lot of investment going on, but the issue is to do with driver only operated trains.
The unions won't budge on this. | |||
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"I remember someone saying to me,'Management gets the unions they deserve.' In the case of Southern Trains, I agree. I can't comment on the other two train companies. " in the case of "southern " its exactly what they have been set up to do they are not a franchise but a management company set up to to do the DFTs bidding .northern & mersey rail as franchises will receive fines for the trains that do not run on strike days southern will not as they have been set up for one thing and one thing only and that is to break the RMT on behalf of all the govt so that all the new franchises can bring in D.O.O. opertaion . ask yourself why scotrail were able to come to an agreement on D.O.O. with the unions yet southern cannot ? because the DFT and transport minister will not allow it under any circumstances petty the poor southern commuter being used as political football | |||
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"I remember someone saying to me,'Management gets the unions they deserve.' In the case of Southern Trains, I agree. I can't comment on the other two train companies. I hadn't heard that quote before, but as a daily user of Northern Trains I'd say it was probably spot on. Antiquated rolling-stock and under-sized trains for peak time services show what they think of the passengers who pay for the service, so heaven knows how they treat their employees. It's the implementation of new rolling stock that's the cause of the problem
There's a lot of investment going on, but the issue is to do with driver only operated trains.
The unions won't budge on this."Whilst I am a union man, the transport unions especially when bob crow and. Ow with mike cash have always played hardball. For me, I can see why they are striking but people have to realise that modernisation and do trains are way forward. The tube hasn't had a guard on so why does the trains want it | |||
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"I remember someone saying to me,'Management gets the unions they deserve.' In the case of Southern Trains, I agree. I can't comment on the other two train companies. " | |||
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"That's exactly the point of going on strike. To get fair pay an conditions you have to cause disruption and remind the bosses who really has the power! I'd strongly recommend anyone who has a choice not to cross the pickets and to boycott those companies until the strikes are successful." if the work place needs a union the management are bastards...anita rodick | |||
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"That's exactly the point of going on strike. To get fair pay an conditions you have to cause disruption and remind the bosses who really has the power! I'd strongly recommend anyone who has a choice not to cross the pickets and to boycott those companies until the strikes are successful.if the work place needs a union the management are bastards...anita rodick" Exactly! And unfortunately at the moment far more workplaces need unions than actually have them. | |||
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"Have to say I'm very pleasantly surprised at the support shown for the workers on this site. These selfish days most people only consider the inconvenience caused to their day and damn the workers for striking. " My dad used to lecture for the NUR on union law and history. It's a shame this is not covered on the curriculum at school. I think many people need their eyes opening to how many of their "rights" at work have come from union activity, and not from the generosity of benevolent company bosses! | |||
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"They should suck it up and get on with it and accept that it is time for modernasation, all the other train lines are ok as it is with it." . Awww shag, I hate to disagree with you but on this instance I need too I'm sorry 
Here in the north, our train personnel are happy for the modernisation, as in the new trains, they totally accept and agree they are needed, they however disagree with the decision to remove the train guards
I have to say that I don't use public transport but I have however just moved into the world of being a parent to a child now old enough to want to venture out without using mum and dads taxi
This is where I worry, I feel totally uneasy that he could be travelling without that extra protection of an adult in authority travelling with him
We do get trouble on our trains, especially on match days, race days and such, our guards put up with a lot, yet they are fighting to keep that position of responsibility to protect the public, I can not see any other choice than to support this, as a parent at least Mrs blue eyes  | |||
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"Will there be platform attendants on busy stations? Someone stations have platforms that are on a bend and the driver wouldn't be able to see if people were still getting on, without using a mirror. " Exactly. What happens if there is a fatality? Who gets slapped with the charge of manslaughter? If I were those drivers, I'd kick up a stink about DOO trains too. | |||
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"There is a driver doo at the moment. The company and rail safety board have said he did everything right according to safe practice. A woman got stuck in the doors and now the driver is being prosecuted! " not the driver but infact the guard and by all accounts he actualy stopped the train moving and killing her . Martin Zee – Guard Merseyrail Following a resolution from our Wirral Branch the General Grades Committee have considered the case of our Guard’s Grade member Martin Zee. Martin was involved in an incident at Hamilton Square on 8th July 2015 in which a member of the public was injured when she tried to board the train after the door closure procedure had commenced when the door closing alarm was sounding. The individual concerned received a number of injuries after falling between the train and the platform. Our member, by following the training he has received from the company, was instrumental in assisting the train driver in isolating the electrical supply to the third rail by placing the short circuit bar on the running and conductor rail. Martin then lowered himself between the platform edge and the train and offered assistance and reassurance to the member of the public until the emergency services arrived. Merseyrail’s investigation into the incident and the company’s response to the findings of that report is exemplary. The company have taken no action against our member and all of the recommendations in the report are addressed to system risk issues rather than individual failings. This is in line with RMT’s campaign of fair culture programme in the investigation of incidents. What is beyond belief is that the Crown Prosecution Service has now commenced a prosecution of our member under Section 34 of the Offences Against the Person Act of 1861. This statute allows for the prosecution of staff on the railway who endangered the safety of any person conveyed or being in or upon a railway. The maximum penalty under the Act is two years imprisonment. On giving consideration to the resolution from Wirral Branch the General Grades Committee have adopted the following Decision: That we note the resolution from our Wirral Branch and agree with the sentiments contained within. We note our Member Brother Martin Zee has been disgracefully charged under section 34 of the offences against persons act 1861 for performing nothing more than a door procedure in line with Merseyrail's training standards, this unfortunately resulted in minor injuries to a passenger who opted to ignore the hustle alarm, warning her that it was unsafe to board, instead choosing to board the service whilst the doors were in the process of closing whilst it was unsafe to do so. This GGC notes that Merseyrail carried out their own full and detailed investigation following the incident, further we note Merseyrail's findings following the completion of their investigation amounted to nothing and they advised our Member that he had carried out the "Power operated door procedure" as per the company standard, that he would not face any disciplinary sanctions following the outcome of their findings which proved his innocence beyond doubt ,without any failings on his part. Additionally we note Brother Zee has been provided full legal assistance from the RMT in an attempt to clear his name and ensure justice is sought. This GGC recognises and welcomes the support Merseyrail have provided for our Member during this difficult time, firstly for the offer of providing legal assistance for our Member and secondly for working together with our Union in an attempt to ensure police charges were not brought against Brother Zee although unfortunately this turned out not to be the case. This GGC believes if the CPS do not withdraw these charges against our Member, then this could result in grave consequences for the Rail Industry in general, leaving our Members receiving no level of protection whatsoever, regardless if they follow agreed company training procedures whilst carrying out door operating procedures which could ultimately result in police prosecutions should a member of the travelling public choose to ignore warnings not to board a service whilst Train doors are closing, potentially resulting in injury. We therefore instruct the General Secretary to write to Merseyrail seeking assurances over our Members future employment status regardless of the out-come of these charges, we further instruct the General Secretary to raise this matter directly with the ORR, seeking clarification on approved power operated door training standards requesting information as to who or whom, if anyone? is protected in circumstances such as these and whether the wider rail industry is aware that police charges may be brought against rail workers even in circumstances when procedures are carried out as per the agreed company standard. Finally the General Secretary is instructed to request that this is an item for discussion to be raised through our Parliamentary Group members to build a high profile political awareness around this case and to place pressure on the CPS to do the decent thing and withdraw the charge against our Member, any further developments to be placed back before this GGC. Relevant Branches and Regional Councils to be advised. I am acting in accordance with this Decision and will update you as appropriate. Please bring the contents of this circular to the attention of all relevant members. Yours sincerely Mick Cash General Secretary | |||
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"I just went with dlr, no drivers, no strikes and they save loads by not paying any wage." They do have drivers who drive the trains part of the route sometimes, especially by the Poplar bend. They have gone on strike within the last 18 months due to conditions and not pay, I seem to recall. | |||
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"I just went with dlr, no drivers, no strikes and they save loads by not paying any wage." That just means that the company can make more and more profit on the backs of the staff and drivers they do still have. Companies "saving loads of money" isn't a good thing. | |||
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"There is a driver doo at the moment. The company and rail safety board have said he did everything right according to safe practice. A woman got stuck in the doors and now the driver is being prosecuted! not the driver but infact the guard and by all accounts he actualy stopped the train moving and killing her . Martin Zee – Guard Merseyrail Following a resolution from our Wirral Branch the General Grades Committee have considered the case of our Guard’s Grade member Martin Zee. Martin was involved in an incident at Hamilton Square on 8th July 2015 in which a member of the public was injured when she tried to board the train after the door closure procedure had commenced when the door closing alarm was sounding. The individual concerned received a number of injuries after falling between the train and the platform. Our member, by following the training he has received from the company, was instrumental in assisting the train driver in isolating the electrical supply to the third rail by placing the short circuit bar on the running and conductor rail. Martin then lowered himself between the platform edge and the train and offered assistance and reassurance to the member of the public until the emergency services arrived. Merseyrail’s investigation into the incident and the company’s response to the findings of that report is exemplary. The company have taken no action against our member and all of the recommendations in the report are addressed to system risk issues rather than individual failings. This is in line with RMT’s campaign of fair culture programme in the investigation of incidents. What is beyond belief is that the Crown Prosecution Service has now commenced a prosecution of our member under Section 34 of the Offences Against the Person Act of 1861. This statute allows for the prosecution of staff on the railway who endangered the safety of any person conveyed or being in or upon a railway. The maximum penalty under the Act is two years imprisonment. On giving consideration to the resolution from Wirral Branch the General Grades Committee have adopted the following Decision: That we note the resolution from our Wirral Branch and agree with the sentiments contained within. We note our Member Brother Martin Zee has been disgracefully charged under section 34 of the offences against persons act 1861 for performing nothing more than a door procedure in line with Merseyrail's training standards, this unfortunately resulted in minor injuries to a passenger who opted to ignore the hustle alarm, warning her that it was unsafe to board, instead choosing to board the service whilst the doors were in the process of closing whilst it was unsafe to do so. This GGC notes that Merseyrail carried out their own full and detailed investigation following the incident, further we note Merseyrail's findings following the completion of their investigation amounted to nothing and they advised our Member that he had carried out the "Power operated door procedure" as per the company standard, that he would not face any disciplinary sanctions following the outcome of their findings which proved his innocence beyond doubt ,without any failings on his part. Additionally we note Brother Zee has been provided full legal assistance from the RMT in an attempt to clear his name and ensure justice is sought. This GGC recognises and welcomes the support Merseyrail have provided for our Member during this difficult time, firstly for the offer of providing legal assistance for our Member and secondly for working together with our Union in an attempt to ensure police charges were not brought against Brother Zee although unfortunately this turned out not to be the case. This GGC believes if the CPS do not withdraw these charges against our Member, then this could result in grave consequences for the Rail Industry in general, leaving our Members receiving no level of protection whatsoever, regardless if they follow agreed company training procedures whilst carrying out door operating procedures which could ultimately result in police prosecutions should a member of the travelling public choose to ignore warnings not to board a service whilst Train doors are closing, potentially resulting in injury. We therefore instruct the General Secretary to write to Merseyrail seeking assurances over our Members future employment status regardless of the out-come of these charges, we further instruct the General Secretary to raise this matter directly with the ORR, seeking clarification on approved power operated door training standards requesting information as to who or whom, if anyone? is protected in circumstances such as these and whether the wider rail industry is aware that police charges may be brought against rail workers even in circumstances when procedures are carried out as per the agreed company standard. Finally the General Secretary is instructed to request that this is an item for discussion to be raised through our Parliamentary Group members to build a high profile political awareness around this case and to place pressure on the CPS to do the decent thing and withdraw the charge against our Member, any further developments to be placed back before this GGC. Relevant Branches and Regional Councils to be advised. I am acting in accordance with this Decision and will update you as appropriate. Please bring the contents of this circular to the attention of all relevant members. Yours sincerely Mick Cash General Secretary" thankfully the jury saw sence and acquitted the guard concerned today | |||
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