FabSwingers.com forum: our war

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The guys are using film from when i was last there why didnt they use our vidos for the doc there much more real than this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which war was that? We've had more than a few you know.

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per say. Look at Japan and Germany, even our losers after the 2nd world war are international superpowers today!

It's only the truth that if e.g. a South American or African nation suffered the same defeats, they'd be thrown back to the Dark Ages ASAP. We know this because it has happened before.

The key is our western economy, it's damn resilient in a non-obvious, non-trivial way.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Which war was that? We've had more than a few you know.

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per say. Look at Japan and Germany, even our losers after the 2nd world war are international superpowers today!

It's only the truth that if e.g. a South American or African nation suffered the same defeats, they'd be thrown back to the Dark Ages ASAP. We know this because it has happened before.

The key is our western economy, it's damn resilient in a non-obvious, non-trivial way."

You realy dont know what im talking about its a documentry on bbc3 about afganistan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Which war was that? We've had more than a few you know.

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per say. Look at Japan and Germany, even our losers after the 2nd world war are international superpowers today!

It's only the truth that if e.g. a South American or African nation suffered the same defeats, they'd be thrown back to the Dark Ages ASAP. We know this because it has happened before.

The key is our western economy, it's damn resilient in a non-obvious, non-trivial way.

You realy dont know what im talking about its a documentry on bbc3 about afganistan"

To be fair "our war" isn't such a unique title. I don't watch TV much anyway. Apart from The Sopranos and recently some episodes of the The Apprentice.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

[Removed by poster at 21/06/11 21:36:02]

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se "

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will?

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

adarkhorse then maybe you should just watch it and learn a bit then about what our forces are going through and some of the conditions they have to live in, my ex hubby was forces so i know the situations they have had to live in...... and its not living in the ritz or 5 star luxury

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Watching it now .. It's moving and hard to watch in bits but it's good

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will? "

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

I just thought that a curious thing, considering what should normally occur is the exact opposite.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"adarkhorse then maybe you should just watch it and learn a bit then about what our forces are going through and some of the conditions they have to live in, my ex hubby was forces so i know the situations they have had to live in...... and its not living in the ritz or 5 star luxury"

I'm quite sure you're right. I'll never be a solider, but I respect anybody with the balls to go through a long stretch of hard boring work punctuated by moments of exceptional terror and fear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my eldest son was out in the first gulf war.....and came back totally different....why oh why do we carry on sending our boys out there to be cannon fodder? I know they join the Army and assume that they will be sent to fight but they dont have the equipment and information to carry out these fights...

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By *he tactile technicianMan
over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will?

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

I just thought that a curious thing, considering what should normally occur is the exact opposite."
You seem to have completely overlooked reconstruction after the second world war if you're taking Germany and Japan as examples, may I suggest you visit the Uni library tomorrow and check out the efforts put into reconstruction of both Germany and Japan by the west? You may learn something!!!

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

my now ex hubby was involved in the falklands was and gulf war 1, he was in the raf and a pilot so i know how it feels not to know where they are and if they are safe........... but thats life when you are in the services

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will?

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

I just thought that a curious thing, considering what should normally occur is the exact opposite. You seem to have completely overlooked reconstruction after the second world war if you're taking Germany and Japan as examples, may I suggest you visit the Uni library tomorrow and check out the efforts put into reconstruction of both Germany and Japan by the west? You may learn something!!!

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

I just thought that a curious thing, considering what should normally occur is the exact opposite."

According to some historians, the cause of the second world war was that the price demanded of Germany for losing the first war was too onerous, so that having also lost the second one, the decision was made to "restore" the two countries to civility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"... but they dont have the equipment and information to carry out these fights..."

My brother in law is in Afghanistan as we speak and I asked him recently about this specific issue. His reply was "don't believe everything you read in the paper. We have what we need to get the job done."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

probably the most thought provoking programe on tele ....

prays go to eveybody caught up in war....

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will?

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

Is that becuase the West picks it's fights/wars carefully? The "opponents" are hardly first rate countries with high tech weaponry.

It always amuses me when the West complain that the enemy fight close up with small arms. WTF else are they supposed to do?

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

FOR SALE :

Second hand drone helicopter , slight damage, one careless owner.

Buyer to collect.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

FOR SALE :

Second hand drone helicopter , slight damage, one careless owner.

Buyer to collect. "

Mushy, you need something TLC

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By *he tactile technicianMan
over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

You know (off topic probably), the West has never really lost a war per se

Not entirely true.

The Yanks didn't do all that well in Vietnam.

Nor a little skirmish in Mogadishu. Don't think they've been back since.

I don't recall the Boer war being too succesful. Maybe someone on here will?

Nay nay, that's not my point. It was that whether we lost or won a war, the West always collectively recovered and became even bigger and stronger afterwards. (e.g. Japan, Germany)

In fact I'm intimately familiar with the Marshall Plan and I stand by what I said. It has not been normal throughout history for countries that are defeated in open war, to recover so quickly and dramatically. It only occurs in western countries."
perhaps it is more to do with the victors needing those defeated countries to recover quickly and dramaticly. The west had to stem the tide of communism after the second world war, a strong Germany with British Army and US military presence and a dramatic reconstruction assured that. Likewise US military presence till now, and a dramatic reconstruction of Japan, meant that for the last 60 years the West has been able to keep check of the sleeping dragon which is China.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is that becuase the West picks it's fights/wars carefully? The "opponents" are hardly first rate countries with high tech weaponry.

It always amuses me when the West complain that the enemy fight close up with small arms. WTF else are they supposed to do?"

Sure, and I for one don't believe we should adopt Marquess of Queensberry rules for fighting wars. The aim of war isn't to die for your country...

Now if you want to debate whether we should be involved in wars in XYZ locations, then that's a different topic and one I'd prefer not to talk about here.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Now if you want to debate whether we should be involved in wars in XYZ locations, then that's a different topic and one I'd prefer not to talk about here."

Me too. I'd prefer it if there were no wars anywhere, never mind XYZ.

As someone said the other day, why are our military termed "Defence". We seem to be the aggressors these last 20 years or so.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

FOR SALE :

Second hand drone helicopter , slight damage, one careless owner.

Buyer to collect. "

A deone helecopter humm your realy havent got a clue what your talking about because there not used by anyone so hush up yh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

perhaps it is more to do with the victors needing those defeated countries to recover quickly and dramaticly. The west had to stem the tide of communism after the second world war, a strong Germany with British Army and US military presence and a dramatic reconstruction assured that. Likewise US military presence till now, and a dramatic reconstruction of Japan, meant that for the last 60 years the West has been able to keep check of the sleeping dragon which is China.

I take your point, but I believe that even with no Marshall Plan, a similar but slower version of the same economic events would have taken place.

But that's neither here nor there, we'd have to dig into the numbers and I doubt either of us have the time for that.

As for China, China was effectively a 3rd world country before the 1980s. It's recovery from that position is truly remarkable and I believe it can wholly put down to free market reforms.

The reality is that China is at this point, considerably more capitalist oriented than even the UK. Yup, there are still Communists, but it surely is changing for the better. They, like Japan, will become part of the West, I don't think they should be considered as antagonists. More like competitors.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

FOR SALE :

Second hand drone helicopter , slight damage, one careless owner.

Buyer to collect.

A deone helecopter humm your realy havent got a clue what your talking about because there not used by anyone so hush up yh"

Wasn't it on today's BBC News?

I forget his name now but the senior officer , MBE too , announcing it sounded English.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now if you want to debate whether we should be involved in wars in XYZ locations, then that's a different topic and one I'd prefer not to talk about here.

Me too. I'd prefer it if there were no wars anywhere, never mind XYZ.

As someone said the other day, why are our military termed "Defence". We seem to be the aggressors these last 20 years or so. "

Well, it's off topic, but I have some sympathy for this point of view, on the other hand, I understand and approve of the general aims of the neo-conservatives (don't shout at me unless you know what these are!), but not really of their methods. I prefer soft power over hard power. The West's strongest suit was always soft power, the Soviet's strongest suit was always hard power, and we beat them without a shot being fired.

In the old days, it was called "The Ministry of War". At least we were honest back then! (+ you've got to admit it sounds pretty cool the way it rolls off the tongue even if you're a pacifist!)

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