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"I thought there was more to it than just the retirement age... but to go on that specifically, I can see why shift workers have a case as their life expectancy is affected by the very fact they have worked shifts all their lives. I think that might be a special case though?" I think it has got something to do with shifts as the patteren of shifts does not do wonders on your health and the stress of the job as well.. | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain" If some of us have to wait till 66 to claim state pension then everyone should. The ones who want to can still take early retirement in many cases but the amount of pension should be smaller. | |||
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"I thought there was more to it than just the retirement age... but to go on that specifically, I can see why shift workers have a case as their life expectancy is affected by the very fact they have worked shifts all their lives. I think that might be a special case though? I think it has got something to do with shifts as the patteren of shifts does not do wonders on your health and the stress of the job as well.." I have seen it in my own family where two GPs were quite burnt out and not by the job as such but by the alternating shift patterns. It is tough and you only realise when you do it yourself. | |||
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"Stress can cause problems in all walks of life and business. Imagine the stress parents are going to be under, who work who now have to find extra care or even take time off from their jobs because teachers are going on strike" ahhh but despite that straw polls have indicated the majority of parents support the action .... | |||
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"oops......... because the public sector will be quite happy to retire and watch the private sector work themselves to pay the pensions..... " Lol you might just be right there | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain If some of us have to wait till 66 to claim state pension then everyone should. The ones who want to can still take early retirement in many cases but the amount of pension should be smaller." You have got that wrong, nobody gets state pension before state pension age, but some public sector workers are entitled to draw their work pension from 60. That is what is being altered. | |||
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"I am stressed and I want to retire today.. right now "give your clit a flick and get on with it....... xx | |||
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"I am stressed and I want to retire today.. right now
give your clit a flick and get on with it.......
xx
"Does it REALLY work? Ok, I ll report back in a few mins  | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain" Its not just that. They are striking because the gov are wanting to increase the amount they have to contribute to there pension (my friend will have to pay double) and receive less when they get the pension which will now be later than expected also. Also in the public sector unless your up in the high ranks you generally earn less than in the 'real' world but that is accepted because you always think in public sector you have job security (which you dont have now). Its a build up of lots of issues some petty other very much in need of a re think. | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain" its not about that, its because the contract they agreed to years ago for the pension scheme is being changed, so they will not get the pensions promised, only way they can get what was promised is to pay more in now, or work for longer | |||
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"I am stressed and I want to retire today.. right now "Don't we all | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain Its not just that. They are striking because the gov are wanting to increase the amount they have to contribute to there pension (my friend will have to pay double) and receive less when they get the pension which will now be later than expected also. Also in the public sector unless your up in the high ranks you generally earn less than in the 'real' world but that is accepted because you always think in public sector you have job security (which you dont have now). Its a build up of lots of issues some petty other very much in need of a re think." do the non managers in the public sector earn less than the non managers in the private sector ???? | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain Its not just that. They are striking because the gov are wanting to increase the amount they have to contribute to there pension (my friend will have to pay double) and receive less when they get the pension which will now be later than expected also. Also in the public sector unless your up in the high ranks you generally earn less than in the 'real' world but that is accepted because you always think in public sector you have job security (which you dont have now). Its a build up of lots of issues some petty other very much in need of a re think. do the non managers in the public sector earn less than the non managers in the private sector ????" Yes we do.... | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain its not about that, its because the contract they agreed to years ago for the pension scheme is being changed, so they will not get the pensions promised, only way they can get what was promised is to pay more in now, or work for longer " I was promised a decent pension when I took a private one years ago. That has now stopped paying any bonuses, nothing, zilch. Many other private sector workers are in the same boat, tbh I will not be able to retire at 66. I will be working till the day I drop dead, paying for other peoples pensions. | |||
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"I will retire when I can afford to retire whether its 66 or 106 I took 3 years out of the public sector because of stress of the job I am now back in it but in a happy medium job... "That is a really good point - I cannot for the life of me imagine retiring - provided I am still fit and energetic; I love my work as it is very diverse... so I will carry on for as along as I choose to whatever age it might be :-=) | |||
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"oops......... because the public sector will be quite happy to retire and watch the private sector work themselves to pay the pensions..... " I'm not going on strike. I work within the military, not for the pay, which is far lower than if I worked in the private sector and not for the pension, which is no better than I would get in the private sector, but because I love working with 'my boys' and I feel that I do something useful for them. We get good holidays, job satisfaction and, in some departments, fairly flexible working arrangements. I'm just glad to have a job in the current climate and I won't join in because some feel that we are hard done by. Contrary to popular belief, unless you are very high up in the public sector, we aren't well paid and our bonus is an average of £350 per year. We aren't getting a pay rise for the next 2 years and our incriment rise has also been frozen for 2 years. Therefore, if I did the same job in the private sector, I would be paid an average of £15,000 per year more and my bonus and pay rise would (obviously) far outweight what I will get. But you know, compared to what my boys go through, I have no problems in just being grateful that I have a job and I just hope that my bonus will be that my boys all come home safe in December. Please don't tar all public sector workers with the same brush, because most of us, care more about what we do, than what we get. | |||
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"I will retire when I can afford to retire whether its 66 or 106 I took 3 years out of the public sector because of stress of the job I am now back in it but in a happy medium job... "i cant help thinking and i agree with the political commentators the government are fighting for a strike with the unions to give an excuse for lack of progress in the economy .They are supposed to be in talks still but that liberal twat on friday blew the gaff when he said like it or lump it basically .....its just the 80s govt vs workers bullshit all over again . | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain If some of us have to wait till 66 to claim state pension then everyone should. The ones who want to can still take early retirement in many cases but the amount of pension should be smaller." what has state pension got to do with this? its not about state pension, everyone gets that at the age that qualifies, | |||
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"oops......... because the public sector will be quite happy to retire and watch the private sector work themselves to pay the pensions..... I'm not going on strike. I work within the military, not for the pay, which is far lower than if I worked in the private sector and not for the pension, which is no better than I would get in the private sector, but because I love working with 'my boys' and I feel that I do something useful for them. We get good holidays, job satisfaction and, in some departments, fairly flexible working arrangements. I'm just glad to have a job in the current climate and I won't join in because some feel that we are hard done by. Contrary to popular belief, unless you are very high up in the public sector, we aren't well paid and our bonus is an average of £350 per year. We aren't getting a pay rise for the next 2 years and our incriment rise has also been frozen for 2 years. Therefore, if I did the same job in the private sector, I would be paid an average of £15,000 per year more and my bonus and pay rise would (obviously) far outweight what I will get. But you know, compared to what my boys go through, I have no problems in just being grateful that I have a job and I just hope that my bonus will be that my boys all come home safe in December. Please don't tar all public sector workers with the same brush, because most of us, care more about what we do, than what we get." ask the check out people in Tescos what they earn.... and good for you not striking.. | |||
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"and if people saved more than waste their money on designer outfits,fake nails, multiple shoes they never wear,food they throw out due to being one day past the sell by date,mobile phones and changing them every time a new one comes out,flashier than the neighbours cars,multiple holidays, giving their kids everything they ask for in a hugely spoilt world.... they wouldn't have to work so long..... well some of them. next....." Actually, you do have a point in terms of our "throw away" society... and about our ever increasing expectations to have more.... and Madchick has a point about being grateful for having a job in the current climate | |||
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"public sector workers have actually over taken the real world as you put it in pay. Public sector also offers many more perks. How many people in public sector get 20 days a year holiday? " I think you will find that everyone is entitled to 28 days paid leave per year (8 of which are bank holidays) if your a full time worker - public or private sector | |||
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" do the non managers in the public sector earn less than the non managers in the private sector ????" Yes.................. sometimes by many thousands And to be honest, lower and middle management in the public sector also earn a dam sight less. Example. Budget Managers for the MOD earn between £23,000 and £27,000 and they are generally, quaified accountants. My ex husband is an accountant and he earns over £75k Go figure that the only ones getting slated are the public sector ... | |||
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"oops......... because the public sector will be quite happy to retire and watch the private sector work themselves to pay the pensions..... I'm not going on strike. I work within the military, not for the pay, which is far lower than if I worked in the private sector and not for the pension, which is no better than I would get in the private sector, but because I love working with 'my boys' and I feel that I do something useful for them. We get good holidays, job satisfaction and, in some departments, fairly flexible working arrangements. I'm just glad to have a job in the current climate and I won't join in because some feel that we are hard done by. Contrary to popular belief, unless you are very high up in the public sector, we aren't well paid and our bonus is an average of £350 per year. We aren't getting a pay rise for the next 2 years and our incriment rise has also been frozen for 2 years. Therefore, if I did the same job in the private sector, I would be paid an average of £15,000 per year more and my bonus and pay rise would (obviously) far outweight what I will get. But you know, compared to what my boys go through, I have no problems in just being grateful that I have a job and I just hope that my bonus will be that my boys all come home safe in December. Please don't tar all public sector workers with the same brush, because most of us, care more about what we do, than what we get. ask the check out people in Tescos what they earn.... and good for you not striking.." Tesco's check out personnel have been told they are getting a 2.5% payrise and will be on over £7 per hour. They also get Tesco shares, pension and full compliment of holidays. So, all in all, they are not paid far short of what Office Managers in the MOD are paid. As for the comment on a post above abut holidays....... yes, we get very good holidays, but most MOD workers I know haven't taken their full compliment for years. I carried over 15 days this year and that will get wiped off at the end of April 2012...... and I can guarantee I won't use this years compliment of holidays....... let alone all my toil time hours. I work, on average, a 70 hour week and claim NO overtime and NO flexi. I won't be taking any time off from 1 July until middle of December because I have to be in the office whilst my lot are away.....anyone in the public sector who moans about that, shouldn't be working in the public sector. Like I said, compared to what my boys go through, I have no complaints. | |||
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"I am just happy I have a job with the amount that the government are slashing as they don't think that the homeless and vulernable adults don't need the money... Its a strange world we live in... We are all 3 paychecks away from being homeless. " What a succinct and true statement... any one of us could loose their job and if they are lucky with 3 months' notice then that is how long most could maintain mortgage payments.. You are right! | |||
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" do the non managers in the public sector earn less than the non managers in the private sector ???? Yes.................. sometimes by many thousands And to be honest, lower and middle management in the public sector also earn a dam sight less. Example. Budget Managers for the MOD earn between £23,000 and £27,000 and they are generally, quaified accountants. My ex husband is an accountant and he earns over £75k Go figure that the only ones getting slated are the public sector ..." and in Britains largest Telco they may range from £17k in their first managerial role...£25k to £28k is similar to some of the guys there in similar roles... Someone working in a contact centre starts on about £11k for a full time role.. and thats for a large banking group...... | |||
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" do the non managers in the public sector earn less than the non managers in the private sector ???? Yes.................. sometimes by many thousands And to be honest, lower and middle management in the public sector also earn a dam sight less. Example. Budget Managers for the MOD earn between £23,000 and £27,000 and they are generally, quaified accountants. My ex husband is an accountant and he earns over £75k Go figure that the only ones getting slated are the public sector ..." yes SOMETIMES | |||
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" Like I said, compared to what my boys go through, I have no complaints." Just for clarification... are you referring to your own family when you state "my boys" ? Incidentally I work a 60 hour week also.. but I am lucky I love my job. | |||
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"oops......... because the public sector will be quite happy to retire and watch the private sector work themselves to pay the pensions..... " To be fair it was an insensitive throw away comment that may cause offence to some public sector workers... for that apologies. | |||
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"anyway ,if the private sector are so far behind in terms of conditions and pensions ,shouldnt we be trying to move there conditions to parity with the public sector rather than send the message to the govt its ok to do what you want with us ? i would also like to point out that public service employees are Tax payers too all 6 million of them " Good point that man!!! What some people seem to forget is that public sector workers aren't being paid to sit there and do nothing - some of us work very hard for our wages, and from those wages we pay towards a pension, which we may or may not eventually see before we die depending on how far the Govt want to stretch the retirement age. Too many people see public sector employees as an easy target as they are "lucky to have a job" - yes we are lucky - for now - until the Govt decide to initiate more cuts on the public sector - which often go unnoticed as they are not a "popular" area of the working society | |||
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"The misconception is we're paying for the public sector pension. It's THEIR work pension that THEY'VE paid into. They get the state pension at the same age as everyone else. The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike!" This has to be the biggest lie going. Yes, public workers do pay a % out of their salary. What they conveniently forget to add is that their employer, the public body/authority whatever, pay a significant perecentage on top. WHERE THE FUCK do these funds come from? My council tax, other taxes i have paid. | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike!" I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike. | |||
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"The misconception is we're paying for the public sector pension. It's THEIR work pension that THEY'VE paid into. They get the state pension at the same age as everyone else. The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! This has to be the biggest lie going. Yes, public workers do pay a % out of their salary. What they conveniently forget to add is that their employer, the public body/authority whatever, pay a significant perecentage on top. WHERE THE FUCK do these funds come from? My council tax, other taxes i have paid." true, but guess what, if you pay into a pension scheme provided by your employer, your employer also contributes to your pension pot, how is that any differemt? | |||
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"true, but guess what, if you pay into a pension scheme provided by your employer, your employer also contributes to your pension pot, how is that any differemt? " You're wrong. There is no requirement in law to force an employer to put money into a pension scheme. The company I have just left has introduced a pension scheme for it's employees to contribute to but it was specifically highlighted that the company would not be putting into it. | |||
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"true, but guess what, if you pay into a pension scheme provided by your employer, your employer also contributes to your pension pot, how is that any differemt? You're wrong. There is no requirement in law to force an employer to put money into a pension scheme. The company I have just left has introduced a pension scheme for it's employees to contribute to but it was specifically highlighted that the company would not be putting into it." well now corporation tax has been cut they should be made to ,the pension thing needs a cross political solution to give british workers a decent shake of the stick, if you manage to hit the finish line before dropping down dead | |||
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"The misconception is we're paying for the public sector pension. It's THEIR work pension that THEY'VE paid into. They get the state pension at the same age as everyone else. The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! This has to be the biggest lie going. Yes, public workers do pay a % out of their salary. What they conveniently forget to add is that their employer, the public body/authority whatever, pay a significant perecentage on top. WHERE THE FUCK do these funds come from? My council tax, other taxes i have paid. true, but guess what, if you pay into a pension scheme provided by your employer, your employer also contributes to your pension pot, how is that any differemt? " Indeed, but some people won't see that as the same thing as anything "public" denotes erm public. | |||
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" true, but guess what, if you pay into a pension scheme provided by your employer, your employer also contributes to your pension pot, how is that any different? " Mainly because my employers revenue is not paid for out of such as Council Tax nor general taxation. Nor does it provide a guaranteed index linked pension. Nor is there as much left since Gordon Brown commenced the widely acknowledged raid on pension funds from 1997 to date. It has to be said, the financial industry have by and large merrily helped themselves to such pension pots too. Regulated by whom i wonder. | |||
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"The misconception is we're paying for the public sector pension. It's THEIR work pension that THEY'VE paid into. They get the state pension at the same age as everyone else. The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! This has to be the biggest lie going. Yes, public workers do pay a % out of their salary. What they conveniently forget to add is that their employer, the public body/authority whatever, pay a significant perecentage on top. WHERE THE FUCK do these funds come from? My council tax, other taxes i have paid." Just as my taxes pay towards the Welfare State - but that is another debate | |||
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"Time for some clarification here I think. It's not that taxpayers begrudge public sector employees a decent pension, far from it, it's just that when we hear about 50% of council tax rasied going into pension pots whilst essential services are being cut, well it makes it a little bit diffuclt to feel any sympathy when the public sector are told they have to work a little bit harder for a little bit longer. It's not their fault that their bosses are making political statements by cutting services instead of finding ways to save money elsewhere but they are taking the brunt of those executive council decisions." yeah but wishy if that statistic is correct then it applys to tory councils too ,successive goverments for 40 years have known about the 1 trillion pound pension shortfall for 40 years or more ,its now becoming critical because of the demographic shift more people entering the retirement phase ,and its only going to get worse . What it needs is a judicial re_iew which is cross political and finally nail this whole issue once and for all ,what it doesnt need is inflamatory statements from the coalition trying to provoke a distraction fight with the unions ,as portillo said its far too important for that . | |||
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"yeah but wishy if that statistic is correct then it applys to tory councils too ,successive goverments for 40 years have known about the 1 trillion pound pension shortfall for 40 years or more ,its now becoming critical because of the demographic shift more people entering the retirement phase ,and its only going to get worse . What it needs is a judicial re_iew which is cross political and finally nail this whole issue once and for all ,what it doesnt need is inflamatory statements from the coalition trying to provoke a distraction fight with the unions ,as portillo said its far too important for that ." You forget that ministers come and go and spend a relatively little portion of their entire career actually in office. Once their time has passed they often move onto the private lecture circuit and earn a fortune there, pumping millions into their own pension pots alongside the untold riches they get in golden handshakes. What I'm trying to say is that because they know they'll spend 5-10 years maximum in government, any awkward decisions can be deflected, delayed, postponed or abandoned for the next guy to deal with, and he'll do the same. Hence the 40-year time gap you speak of. But I'm a firm believer in tipping points and eventually it will have to be dealt with - maybe that time has arrived and this is them dealing with it. We can't know that with any degree of certainty though. | |||
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"yeah but wishy if that statistic is correct then it applys to tory councils too ,successive goverments for 40 years have known about the 1 trillion pound pension shortfall for 40 years or more ,its now becoming critical because of the demographic shift more people entering the retirement phase ,and its only going to get worse . What it needs is a judicial re_iew which is cross political and finally nail this whole issue once and for all ,what it doesnt need is inflamatory statements from the coalition trying to provoke a distraction fight with the unions ,as portillo said its far too important for that . You forget that ministers come and go and spend a relatively little portion of their entire career actually in office. Once their time has passed they often move onto the private lecture circuit and earn a fortune there, pumping millions into their own pension pots alongside the untold riches they get in golden handshakes. What I'm trying to say is that because they know they'll spend 5-10 years maximum in government, any awkward decisions can be deflected, delayed, postponed or abandoned for the next guy to deal with, and he'll do the same. Hence the 40-year time gap you speak of. But I'm a firm believer in tipping points and eventually it will have to be dealt with - maybe that time has arrived and this is them dealing with it. We can't know that with any degree of certainty though." well wishy its worse than that tbh Since 2002, when MPs voted for an increase in their accrual rate it has been one fortieth far better than any public worker pension MPs say that their higher accrual rates are justified because parliamentary careers are usually shorter than other workers. But it has meant that after just 15 years’ service an MP can retire with an annual pension of £24,000. It has long been seen an unacceptably generous scheme. A worker in the private sector with a defined contribution pension would have to have built up a pension pot of around £700,000 to be able to enjoy a similar annual pension. however it looks like there is a pnag of guilt as they are planning to reign em in too ,but it will be better than any one elses you can be sure | |||
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" Like I said, compared to what my boys go through, I have no complaints. Just for clarification... are you referring to your own family when you state "my boys" ? Incidentally I work a 60 hour week also.. but I am lucky I love my job." No..... I'm talking about the soldiers I work with....... they are ALL 'my boys' | |||
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"The whole system needs overhauling. The other thread regarding disabled workers, the minimum wage, and now this one on pensions makes it clear that all these things are inextricably linked to each other and it all needs rebuilding from the ground up. We should have a National Computing Agency who's responsibility is to ensure that ALL government and council departments are using the same software and can cross-link/reference/match any information about any citizen. We all have one thing unique to us and that is our N.I. number, so build a system around that and we can have a system that is fair to all and includes all. Wages can be automatically calculated against hours and rate of pay to enforce the minimum wage, accounting systems tied into the NCA can ensure the correct rate of corporation tax is paid and pensions can be adjusted/accrued/discontinued based upon whether a worker is contributing to it or not. All seamlessly. Think of all the waste that can be filtered out. The benefits cheats that would be caught the moment such a system went online. We live in a technological world, why not use it to govern the people better and more effectively." I agree........... but who could we trust to run the computer system? | |||
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"The whole system needs overhauling. The other thread regarding disabled workers, the minimum wage, and now this one on pensions makes it clear that all these things are inextricably linked to each other and it all needs rebuilding from the ground up. We should have a National Computing Agency who's responsibility is to ensure that ALL government and council departments are using the same software and can cross-link/reference/match any information about any citizen. We all have one thing unique to us and that is our N.I. number, so build a system around that and we can have a system that is fair to all and includes all. Wages can be automatically calculated against hours and rate of pay to enforce the minimum wage, accounting systems tied into the NCA can ensure the correct rate of corporation tax is paid and pensions can be adjusted/accrued/discontinued based upon whether a worker is contributing to it or not. All seamlessly. Think of all the waste that can be filtered out. The benefits cheats that would be caught the moment such a system went online. We live in a technological world, why not use it to govern the people better and more effectively. I agree........... but who could we trust to run the computer system? " A con census of opinion could maybe start with Lockheed Martin? Efficient too, inside knowledge of who and where to target? | |||
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"I agree........... but who could we trust to run the computer system? " That's the $64,000 question isn't it. Who is incorruptible enough to be responsible with such a vast amount of data. Such an agency would have to be populated by people with no hidden motives and no allegiance to any one party. I'd appoint a cross party structure answerable to the Attorney General, who must himself be completely apolitical. Ultimately the preferred aim would be for the computing system to run itself with emphasis placed on developing an A.I. interface. It's all hypothetical of course and will probably never happen in our lifetime. There would be too much to lose and less manoevering available to those who thrive on the political machinations of Whitehall. | |||
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"I agree........... but who could we trust to run the computer system? That's the $64,000 question isn't it. Who is incorruptible enough to be responsible with such a vast amount of data. Such an agency would have to be populated by people with no hidden motives and no allegiance to any one party. I'd appoint a cross party structure answerable to the Attorney General, who must himself be completely apolitical. Ultimately the preferred aim would be for the computing system to run itself with emphasis placed on developing an A.I. interface. It's all hypothetical of course and will probably never happen in our lifetime. There would be too much to lose and less manoevering available to those who thrive on the political machinations of Whitehall." i dont want it ,it would be hacked in a month data integrity shot to ribbons ,Ministers on £50 a week and holidays automatically after being released from nick | |||
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"Its alright for me if i stay in the army for 22 years i can retire at the age of 40 "haha id like to see you survive on their pension | |||
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"compared to what my boys go through, " Madchick - they ain't 'your boys' they signed up to serve Queen and country .. not you, so that don't make them 'your boys' I think their ass belongs to Her Majesty - not you ! | |||
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"@ Madchick: Working in the private sector does not guarantee you a pay rise and/or bonus. I worked for the same telecoms company for 17 years and you only got a pay rise of you threatened to quit. Sometimes they'd call your bluff and you'd have to either back down or resign. I've left that company now as I hadn't had a pay rise for 4 years and was basically told to lump it if I wasn't happy about that. I'm retraining as an electrician at the monent so I suspect I'll be re-entering the self employed industry with no job protection, no holiday or sick pay, and pay rises either. But I'll have still have to pay my council tax, of which 50% of it goes on public sector pensions. And that I find obscene! The state pension was designed to give people a couple of years after they finish work so they wouldn't have to worry about money too much, but they were expected to die in a few years. Now people live for much longer and if they retire at 66 and live to be 90 that's a lot longer to draw down on their pension funds. They should pay more into their own pot, and from their own salaries, but I would be open to bonuses paid into public sector pension pots for individuals who have performed above and beyond whilst serving the public." The claim that 50% of your council tax goes on pensions is so bizarrely wrong it makes the rest of your post not worth reading. | |||
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"Time for some clarification here I think. It's not that taxpayers begrudge public sector employees a decent pension, far from it, it's just that when we hear about 50% of council tax rasied going into pension pots whilst essential services are being cut, well it makes it a little bit diffuclt to feel any sympathy when the public sector are told they have to work a little bit harder for a little bit longer. It's not their fault that their bosses are making political statements by cutting services instead of finding ways to save money elsewhere but they are taking the brunt of those executive council decisions." Got a source for that 50% firgure? I'll bet not, because it's bollocks. | |||
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"The misconception is we're paying for the public sector pension. It's THEIR work pension that THEY'VE paid into. They get the state pension at the same age as everyone else. The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! This has to be the biggest lie going. Yes, public workers do pay a % out of their salary. What they conveniently forget to add is that their employer, the public body/authority whatever, pay a significant perecentage on top. WHERE THE FUCK do these funds come from? My council tax, other taxes i have paid." And? It's called deferred wages. We pay it to public servants as part of their pay deal. | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike." Wrong again. Public servants pension entitlement is also reduced for every day they are on strike. Are you trying for some kind of inaccuracy award? | |||
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" Like I said, compared to what my boys go through, I have no complaints. Just for clarification... are you referring to your own family when you state "my boys" ? Incidentally I work a 60 hour week also.. but I am lucky I love my job. No..... I'm talking about the soldiers I work with....... they are ALL 'my boys'" Not being disrespectful to the important work you do and the obvious responsibility and attachment you feel for them.... it does like a bit of an over attachment here? Do they like being referred to as your "boys" and presumably "girls"? I would not get away with referring to my team of 40 adults as "my boys and girls" and if I did they would probably feel a bit patronised...and there might even be an investigation in my managerial role - so I would not get away with that one, lol... | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike. Wrong again. Public servants pension entitlement is also reduced for every day they are on strike. Are you trying for some kind of inaccuracy award?" Thanks for the clarification. Did you notice I used the phrase 'I bet'. Here's a lesson in English for you, when a phrase is used that doesn't imply absolute knowledge (such as 'I know') it is reasonable to assume that the phrase is merely someone's opinion, and not a statement of fact. Understand? | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike. Wrong again. Public servants pension entitlement is also reduced for every day they are on strike. Are you trying for some kind of inaccuracy award? Thanks for the clarification. Did you notice I used the phrase 'I bet'. Here's a lesson in English for you, when a phrase is used that doesn't imply absolute knowledge (such as 'I know') it is reasonable to assume that the phrase is merely someone's opinion, and not a statement of fact. Understand? "You haven't answered any of the questions, and you're squirming now because you've been making it up as you go along. | |||
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"Time for some clarification here I think. It's not that taxpayers begrudge public sector employees a decent pension, far from it, it's just that when we hear about 50% of council tax rasied going into pension pots whilst essential services are being cut, well it makes it a little bit diffuclt to feel any sympathy when the public sector are told they have to work a little bit harder for a little bit longer. It's not their fault that their bosses are making political statements by cutting services instead of finding ways to save money elsewhere but they are taking the brunt of those executive council decisions. Got a source for that 50% firgure? I'll bet not, because it's bollocks." Still no response to this one - wonder why, lol... | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike. Wrong again. Public servants pension entitlement is also reduced for every day they are on strike. Are you trying for some kind of inaccuracy award? Thanks for the clarification. Did you notice I used the phrase 'I bet'. Here's a lesson in English for you, when a phrase is used that doesn't imply absolute knowledge (such as 'I know') it is reasonable to assume that the phrase is merely someone's opinion, and not a statement of fact. Understand?
You haven't answered any of the questions, and you're squirming now because you've been making it up as you go along."In all your posts across several threads you've actually said nothing. Nada, zilch, zero. All you've done is criticise and castigate with pointless comments. So let's see what you're made of, let's see something worth reading and then maybe I'll answer your posts again. Ta-ta. | |||
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"The irony is I work for a trade union and I have a non-contributory final salary pension. We've been told we'll have to contribute up to 6% of our salary. My employer is doing in effect what the government is doing: it will make interesting reading when we go out on strike! I bet that little snippet of information will be buried deeply by the unions at the end of the month when they take 100,000 workers out on strike. I bet they'll still get paid too, unlike their private sector counterparts who have their pay docked when on strike. Wrong again. Public servants pension entitlement is also reduced for every day they are on strike. Are you trying for some kind of inaccuracy award? Thanks for the clarification. Did you notice I used the phrase 'I bet'. Here's a lesson in English for you, when a phrase is used that doesn't imply absolute knowledge (such as 'I know') it is reasonable to assume that the phrase is merely someone's opinion, and not a statement of fact. Understand?
You haven't answered any of the questions, and you're squirming now because you've been making it up as you go along.
In all your posts across several threads you've actually said nothing. Nada, zilch, zero.
All you've done is criticise and castigate with pointless comments. So let's see what you're made of, let's see something worth reading and then maybe I'll answer your posts again. Ta-ta."I asked you where you got your claim that 50% of council tax went on pensions from. You didn't answer. So we can all safely assume it's made up bullshit. Well done. | |||
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"Google it. It's all on google. When you've got something to say worth listening to come back to us." I hate to piss on your parade, but the taxpayer is paying 51% of the town hall pensions, but of Which only 25% is council tax payments. So it would be assumed the rest of the money would come from central government. Source; (Department for Communities and Local Government). I think you having been reading the daily mail and daily express too much!. | |||
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"Google it. It's all on google. When you've got something to say worth listening to come back to us. I hate to piss on your parade, but the taxpayer is paying 51% of the town hall pensions, but of Which only 25% is council tax payments. So it would be assumed the rest of the money would come from central government. Source; (Department for Communities and Local Government). I think you having been reading the daily mail and daily express too much!. " actually that figure is even less as the 6 million public service employees are themselves all taxpayers and represent slightly more than 20% of the total workforce so that 25% is actually 20% | |||
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"Its alright for me if i stay in the army for 22 years i can retire at the age of 40 "Actually no it's not. You obviously havn't had the brief yet that they're trying to implement the pension change to us as well! The date as it stands is from 2015. The change won't be optional, everyone will be put onto it! Everything upto 2015 will stay on the pension scheme your currently on. I'm on the 75 pension. Anytime spent in the army after 2015 will be accrued under the new pension scheme which will make a big difference to you lump sum and when you get your pension if your in the early stages of your career which I imagine you are. | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain its not about that, its because the contract they agreed to years ago for the pension scheme is being changed, so they will not get the pensions promised, only way they can get what was promised is to pay more in now, or work for longer " Agreed. Especially when they're trying to implement it to the forces as well 
Yes we come under public sector but I don't think there's many that will disagree with me when I forces jobs are completely different. After all if you tell a civi in the public sector that they're working the weekend they have a choiceand can say no. If they decide to work extra they'll get paid extra.
A person in the forces has no choice about when they work. If were told we're working then we're working. We don't have and are not allowed to have any type of union.
I know the reason I stayed in the army was hugely to do with the pension. Now they're trying to tell us that they may change it and we don't have a choice. They changed it about 6 years back but clearly haven't saved enough money so are doing it again. Only difference was if you were already serving then it was optional if you wanted to change.
If the pension was like they're proposing it will be 12 years ago then I definately would have got out there and then! | |||
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"Google it. It's all on google. When you've got something to say worth listening to come back to us. I hate to piss on your parade, but the taxpayer is paying 51% of the town hall pensions, but of Which only 25% is council tax payments. So it would be assumed the rest of the money would come from central government. Source; (Department for Communities and Local Government). I think you having been reading the daily mail and daily express too much!. " Can I just make a point? Local government pensions are fully funded from the LGPS. The momney being paid out for pensions now was paid in while they were working by the people receiving pensions now. In that way it's totally different to, say, the police scheme, which is an unfunded pensions scheme. The actuaries for the LGPS say it is adequately funded for the enxt 20 years, which is as far ahead as they can predict. | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain its not about that, its because the contract they agreed to years ago for the pension scheme is being changed, so they will not get the pensions promised, only way they can get what was promised is to pay more in now, or work for longer Agreed. Especially when they're trying to implement it to the forces as well
Yes we come under public sector but I don't think there's many that will disagree with me when I forces jobs are completely different. After all if you tell a civi in the public sector that they're working the weekend they have a choiceand can say no. If they decide to work extra they'll get paid extra.
A person in the forces has no choice about when they work. If were told we're working then we're working. We don't have and are not allowed to have any type of union.
I know the reason I stayed in the army was hugely to do with the pension. Now they're trying to tell us that they may change it and we don't have a choice. They changed it about 6 years back but clearly haven't saved enough money so are doing it again. Only difference was if you were already serving then it was optional if you wanted to change.
If the pension was like they're proposing it will be 12 years ago then I definately would have got out there and then! "Lots of local government staff don't have choices. Whether you're a duty social worker or a highways lad on gritter duty you can't say not to on call working. Many local government workers have a standard working day of 7-7, five days from 7, with no supplements for weekend working. Don't get me wrong, no special pleading - no-one deserves to get shafted on pension they were promised, whether it's a soldier or a school dinner lady. | |||
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"So public sector workers are gonna strike, because their retirement age is to be put up from 60 to 66. Can someone please explain to me, why they can't join the rest of us who also have to carry on working to 66? Do they have a special case, more stress, longer working hours can someone please explain its not about that, its because the contract they agreed to years ago for the pension scheme is being changed, so they will not get the pensions promised, only way they can get what was promised is to pay more in now, or work for longer Agreed. Especially when they're trying to implement it to the forces as well
Yes we come under public sector but I don't think there's many that will disagree with me when I forces jobs are completely different. After all if you tell a civi in the public sector that they're working the weekend they have a choiceand can say no. If they decide to work extra they'll get paid extra.
A person in the forces has no choice about when they work. If were told we're working then we're working. We don't have and are not allowed to have any type of union.
I know the reason I stayed in the army was hugely to do with the pension. Now they're trying to tell us that they may change it and we don't have a choice. They changed it about 6 years back but clearly haven't saved enough money so are doing it again. Only difference was if you were already serving then it was optional if you wanted to change.
If the pension was like they're proposing it will be 12 years ago then I definately would have got out there and then!
Lots of local government staff don't have choices. Whether you're a duty social worker or a highways lad on gritter duty you can't say not to on call working. Many local government workers have a standard working day of 7-7, five days from 7, with no supplements for weekend working.
Don't get me wrong, no special pleading - no-one deserves to get shafted on pension they were promised, whether it's a soldier or a school dinner lady."Fair point but they won't be told to go away for 6 months out of every 2 years and avoid getting shot or blown up. Ontop of that we have to train away inbetween tours which is even more time away from home. The divorse rate is high in the forces for a reason. Don't get me wrong. I knew the risks when I joined. My point is that I put up with all the shit hours, time away and risk to my life because I thought I'd be rewarded with a good pension at the end. Now their trying to tell us that they're going to change the pension dramaticaly and we don't have a choice! Sorry but that's wrong no matter which way you look at it!
Nothing has been set in concrete about our pensions, or we're told it's not. If it does pan out the way they're talking about then I can forsee the forces becoming undermanned very quickly.
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"I will retire when I can afford to retire whether its 66 or 106 I took 3 years out of the public sector because of stress of the job I am now back in it but in a happy medium job... "good to know some people have their feet firmly on the ground. good on ya. x | |||
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"If you're not going to retire in the next in the next 10 years take no notice. I reckon they will have moved the goalposts again by then and we will work until we drop or can afford to retire" We're of the same mind. Who knows what new policies are going to be drafted in the future, and which policies now will be rescinded. I can't see Uni fees staying at £9k either. If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that whoever wins an election takes a hammering in the first two years because of unpopular policies but in the run in to the next election they start buying our votes back with tax breaks and re_iews of previous legislation. One of the parties will use a Uni fee cut as an election pledge, mark my words. | |||
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"If you're not going to retire in the next in the next 10 years take no notice. I reckon they will have moved the goalposts again by then and we will work until we drop or can afford to retire We're of the same mind. Who knows what new policies are going to be drafted in the future, and which policies now will be rescinded. I can't see Uni fees staying at £9k either. If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that whoever wins an election takes a hammering in the first two years because of unpopular policies but in the run in to the next election they start buying our votes back with tax breaks and re_iews of previous legislation. One of the parties will use a Uni fee cut as an election pledge, mark my words." You only have to look at the government U turning on policies they were voted in for. We vote because we believe only then you have right to moan about the way the country is run. But even then it's still a crock of shit  | |||
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"I cannot imagine ever stopping completely - maybe I d like to semi retire at some stage but I cannot see myself not doing anything. I might consider doing some work for a charity perhaps or in the community... just would not like the thought of being inactive and not meeting people." If you met me you wouldn't be inactive | |||
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"I cannot imagine ever stopping completely - maybe I d like to semi retire at some stage but I cannot see myself not doing anything. I might consider doing some work for a charity perhaps or in the community... just would not like the thought of being inactive and not meeting people. If you met me you wouldn't be inactive "mmmmm only just saw that one ...;-) | |||
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"You only have to look at the government U turning on policies they were voted in for. We vote because we believe only then you have right to moan about the way the country is run. But even then it's still a crock of shit "Where you see u-turn, I see a responsible govt listening to people and re-evaluating their policies. Of course each party made pre-election pledges that were starkly different to eahc other, but what would be the point in having elections if they all promised the same things - everybody can't be right. At least we now have a govt prepared to hold it's hands up and say, "ok, we'll look at it again." ...and what does Ed Balls come out with? He says the govt are attacking the industries with heavy union representation just like Thatcher did, when the true reality is that Milliband cannot be seen to be reigning in the unions and asking them not to strike. He knows this impending strike will damage this country and he knows he needs to stop it, but he can't attack the unions, he has to make it look like the Tories are. | |||
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"by the time i retire at 66 i will have worked for 50 years officially, and 52 unofficially, just to help pay the wasters and scroungers out there dole money, and we have been told theremight not be a state pension when i come to retire bhecause of all the aforementioned folk, despite the fact i will have paid 50 years owth of tax, tell me, were is the justice!!!!!!" Do you really believe that sensationalist claptrap? Who says there won't be a state pension? I heard that same drivel when I was 21 and I'm 46 now and it's still there. Sure it's been tinkered around with, tweaked here and there, a bit nipped off, another peice added, but it's still there and any party that puts in motion any plans to scrap the state pension will find itself out of power - not at the next election - but the very next day, because the outcry will be so great they'd never be allowed back into their offices to sign the paperwork. | |||
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"It's not just 'boys' out there doing it for their country... remember the dedicated and loyal women too from tri-services!" I was being general. In fact, one of my best female friends is going out there in a couple of weeks and another one is already out there!! | |||
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"There's hard maths behind all this When pensions were introduced in 1908 the life expectancy of the poorest people was their mid forties and generally as whole few people lived past 70. Today, well, we know how long people are living now. When the first pensions came in there were 22 people paying their NI for every one claiming a pension, that ratio now is 2:1 and it's going to get worse. Got to do something." Irrelevant rubbish. The LGPS (Local Government Pension Scheme) is fully funded for the foreseeable future. You appear to be talking about the state pension - which is a different issue... | |||
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