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"All I know is that these two people have avoided the due and proper process of law . It's not about hate or loathing but about the sinister circumvention of lawful procedure" Theyve been investigated and theres not evidence that would support charging them. That is the due and proper process of law. | |||
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"It seems it got full rather quickly, so I started another for anybody that didn't get to post!. " 
People who make numerous pointless posts to close threads they don't like are just immature arseholes. | |||
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" Nothing on here will solve or cure anything being talked about today, following your logic the forums should be scrapped as there's zero to them" Ridiculous comment. The forums here arent to solve child disappearance cases. Theyre largely to discuss swinging and that is something that happens. | |||
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" Nothing on here will solve or cure anything being talked about today, following your logic the forums should be scrapped as there's zero to them Ridiculous comment. The forums here arent to solve child disappearance cases. Theyre largely to discuss swinging and that is something that happens." . So discussing things can help?. You can't have it both ways | |||
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"It seems it got full rather quickly, so I started another for anybody that didn't get to post!. " It didn't full that quick. Just descended into a pointless argument | |||
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"I had my wallet nicked in Porto. If the Portuguese police can't find a wallet, why would they be able to find a little girl?" . Ones just a wallet the other is a missing child. That's just a very silly thing to say | |||
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"I had my wallet nicked in Porto. If the Portuguese police can't find a wallet, why would they be able to find a little girl?. Ones just a wallet the other is a missing child. That's just a very silly thing to say" I think the whole thread is a very silly thing, or wasn't that obvious from my whimsical posts. | |||
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"I had my wallet nicked in Porto. If the Portuguese police can't find a wallet, why would they be able to find a little girl?. Ones just a wallet the other is a missing child. That's just a very silly thing to say I think the whole thread is a very silly thing, or wasn't that obvious from my whimsical posts." . No your original post just made you sound like a bit of a Wally, now you've said it's whimsical it makes a little more sense. If you find threads silly just ignore them is the best advice | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs" . You could try reading some maybe?. | |||
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"It is a publicity stunt" . Your not really making much sense there young man?. Would you care to elaborate why you think it's a publicity stunt! | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs. You could try reading some maybe?. " How could I do that then? Got to be honest, these threads aren't much bloody use. They're mostly full of half arsed conspiracy theories that a few silly people seem to believe are gospel. | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs. You could try reading some maybe?. How could I do that then? Got to be honest, these threads aren't much bloody use. They're mostly full of half arsed conspiracy theories that a few silly people seem to believe are gospel. " . Well there's the entire Portuguese police files available to download on the internet or perhaps try reading some books, maybe both the mcanns and Goncarlo amarals | |||
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"It seems it got full rather quickly, so I started another for anybody that didn't get to post!.
People who make numerous pointless posts to close threads they don't like are just immature arseholes."Or not keen on contentious topics creating nasty arguments. | |||
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"It is a publicity stunt. Your not really making much sense there young man?. Would you care to elaborate why you think it's a publicity stunt!" Yes like they wanted to get famous and get their name out. | |||
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"I had my wallet nicked in Porto. If the Portuguese police can't find a wallet, why would they be able to find a little girl?. Ones just a wallet the other is a missing child. That's just a very silly thing to say I think the whole thread is a very silly thing, or wasn't that obvious from my whimsical posts.. No your original post just made you sound like a bit of a Wally, now you've said it's whimsical it makes a little more sense. If you find threads silly just ignore them is the best advice" Thanks for the advice but then there'd be no point in offending the armchair Miss Marples would there | |||
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"It is a publicity stunt. Your not really making much sense there young man?. Would you care to elaborate why you think it's a publicity stunt!Yes like they wanted to get famous and get their name out." . Erm I'm struggling to think this is anything but another whimsical post which has gone straight over my head again | |||
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"It is a publicity stunt. Your not really making much sense there young man?. Would you care to elaborate why you think it's a publicity stunt!Yes like they wanted to get famous and get their name out.. Erm I'm struggling to think this is anything but another whimsical post which has gone straight over my head again" Yes. I reckon as well it have there. | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs. You could try reading some maybe?. How could I do that then? Got to be honest, these threads aren't much bloody use. They're mostly full of half arsed conspiracy theories that a few silly people seem to believe are gospel. . Well there's the entire Portuguese police files available to download on the internet or perhaps try reading some books, maybe both the mcanns and Goncarlo amarals" Excellent idea. However they're not the actual facts are they, merely someone's interpretation of the details. Who's to say what is written in the police files is true? I'm standing by my original position; unless you were in the child's room before they went out, unless you were at their dinner table in the restaurant and unless you were in the room where she went missing, you do not know the facts. Only two people do..... Anything else is conjecture, misinterpretation, missdirection and like many proposals on this very thread, insane. | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press." So he was there and knows exactly what happened then? | |||
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"I think the thing that bugs most people with this case is that they have never been charged with neglect. And people who say that they have suffered enough with out these charges being brought against them. That's just like somebody breaking into your home, breaking their leg on the way out and the police saying oh well there in a lot of pain so we won't press charges. " There will have been considerable safeguarding involvement, mist likely multi agency. There would also be a very strong case that unless there was evidence that this was part of wider neglect issues then there no real public interest in any prosecution as the price the family have paid far outweighs any punishment the courts could give | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press." All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat. | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. So he was there and knows exactly what happened then?" By that logic police investigation have no substance if the officers aren't present | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs" You weren't in her bedroom? That's exactly what I would expect the kidnapper to say! 
The sad fact of life is that something happened to that little girl and apart from the people involved, whoever they were, we will never really know what happened.
I think its sad that some cases get a huge amount of support and resources thrown at them, whilst others only get a fraction of that for their missing children. Why should one missing child be more or less important than another missing child? | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat." Well no one else is talking about the FEMA camps and the chem trails! | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. So he was there and knows exactly what happened then?" What she said..... ^^^^ | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs. You could try reading some maybe?. How could I do that then? Got to be honest, these threads aren't much bloody use. They're mostly full of half arsed conspiracy theories that a few silly people seem to believe are gospel. . Well there's the entire Portuguese police files available to download on the internet or perhaps try reading some books, maybe both the mcanns and Goncarlo amarals Excellent idea. However they're not the actual facts are they, merely someone's interpretation of the details. Who's to say what is written in the police files is true? I'm standing by my original position; unless you were in the child's room before they went out, unless you were at their dinner table in the restaurant and unless you were in the room where she went missing, you do not know the facts. Only two people do..... Anything else is conjecture, misinterpretation, missdirection and like many proposals on this very thread, insane. " . I don't knows where to begin to tell you how nonsensical that statement is!. Firstly we'll take your idea that only two people know. Which two are these then? According to the mcanns they weren't there, so not them. Secondly we'll take your notion that nothings a fact unless your actually there. Really, just honestly, that's tosh, according to you then, nobody knows about the death camps of Germany, you can't possibly have an opinion on it because everything is a "half assed conspiracy"?. Thirdly we'll take the notion that police reports could be written by anybody, so there not factual?. Police reports are a written document of evidence gathered, statements, phone records, witness reports, forensics, these are always PROVABLE, that's why there used in courts of law for prosecution!. Now if you don't wish to read any of the evidence or the facts of the case that's fine, it's none of my business what you do with your life, however to come on and just disrespect people's posts because you don't know any better yourself is ridiculous. | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat." . Personally I've not seen it, however I wouldn't dismiss it just because it's on YouTube, that's just crass I know better than you twaddle. Perhaps watch it and then disagree with its content. If somebody posts the link I'll certainly cast my eye over it and then dissect it on its merit | |||
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"I "may" have said this before..... I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the facts. I mean the actual facts. Not the facts that people decide are facts and then turn into undeniable gospel. I wasn't at their dinner table, I wasn't in her bedroom. I know effall. *shrugs. You could try reading some maybe?. How could I do that then? Got to be honest, these threads aren't much bloody use. They're mostly full of half arsed conspiracy theories that a few silly people seem to believe are gospel. . Well there's the entire Portuguese police files available to download on the internet or perhaps try reading some books, maybe both the mcanns and Goncarlo amarals Excellent idea. However they're not the actual facts are they, merely someone's interpretation of the details. Who's to say what is written in the police files is true? I'm standing by my original position; unless you were in the child's room before they went out, unless you were at their dinner table in the restaurant and unless you were in the room where she went missing, you do not know the facts. Only two people do..... Anything else is conjecture, misinterpretation, missdirection and like many proposals on this very thread, insane. . I don't knows where to begin to tell you how nonsensical that statement is!. Firstly we'll take your idea that only two people know. Which two are these then? According to the mcanns they weren't there, so not them. Secondly we'll take your notion that nothings a fact unless your actually there. Really, just honestly, that's tosh, according to you then, nobody knows about the death camps of Germany, you can't possibly have an opinion on it because everything is a "half assed conspiracy"?. Thirdly we'll take the notion that police reports could be written by anybody, so there not factual?. Police reports are a written document of evidence gathered, statements, phone records, witness reports, forensics, these are always PROVABLE, that's why there used in courts of law for prosecution!. Now if you don't wish to read any of the evidence or the facts of the case that's fine, it's none of my business what you do with your life, however to come on and just disrespect people's posts because you don't know any better yourself is ridiculous." Maybe read your own last paragraph back to yourself. In particular this bit; "however to come on and just disrespect people's posts....." I don't believe you've correctly interpreted anything I wrote. But that's OK, feel free to read what you'd prefer as opposed to what was actually written. As you were.... | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat.. Personally I've not seen it, however I wouldn't dismiss it just because it's on YouTube, that's just crass I know better than you twaddle. Perhaps watch it and then disagree with its content. If somebody posts the link I'll certainly cast my eye over it and then dissect it on its merit" Theres far too much content being produced to ever watch it all so you have to have some sort of filter. If no reputable publication is willing to follow up on what Mr. Hall produces then theres probably a reason. Anybody can put up a youtube video and put images and words together that will sound convincing of whatever theyre trying to sell you on. The bar is so very very low that its not worth considering without something to give it some merit. In this case a quick google search shows that Richard D Hall is a conspiracy nut who also has theories on the usual conspiracy stuff of aliens, false flag operations, 9/11 and the McCann disappearance. Not worth anyones time. | |||
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" I don't believe you've correctly interpreted anything I wrote. But that's OK, feel free to read what you'd prefer as opposed to what was actually written. As you were.... " . Well if you care to give me the interpretation of what you want then I'll reply to that!. I can only reply to the words you write which is what I did?. What you wrote about "facts" and having to actually be there to be factual was completely nonsensical,I listed the Holocaust as an example but you could apply it to any and every event in history. The next time trump does some crazy act should I have no opinion on the facts as reported because "I'm not there"??. It really is just nonsensical | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press." Yeah, I just Googled Richard D Hall and he has a website full of conspiracy theories (complete with 9/11, UFOs,crop circles etc), so I won't rush to get his no doubt highly scientific opinion. | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat.. Personally I've not seen it, however I wouldn't dismiss it just because it's on YouTube, that's just crass I know better than you twaddle. Perhaps watch it and then disagree with its content. If somebody posts the link I'll certainly cast my eye over it and then dissect it on its merit Theres far too much content being produced to ever watch it all so you have to have some sort of filter. If no reputable publication is willing to follow up on what Mr. Hall produces then theres probably a reason. Anybody can put up a youtube video and put images and words together that will sound convincing of whatever theyre trying to sell you on. The bar is so very very low that its not worth considering without something to give it some merit. In this case a quick google search shows that Richard D Hall is a conspiracy nut who also has theories on the usual conspiracy stuff of aliens, false flag operations, 9/11 and the McCann disappearance. Not worth anyones time." . Well that's an excellent point but to be fair lots of people struggle to get a mainstream platform like John pilger but they do produce some excellent and very good documentaries, although I admit he rarely covers aliens he does allure to government initiatives to start and continue warfare | |||
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"A child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK. Most are teenagers. Most aren't cute, middle-class children. 90% of cases are closed within 48 hours and 99% of cases solved in a year. Spare a thought for that 1% that never get the press coverage or police resources this one case has had. " That might have more to do with the surname- McCann, as i'm fairly sure i read of a close family link to McCann Erikson, one of the biggest PR and marketing companies in the world....which will cetainly help with dealing with any global media enquiries  | |||
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"Watch Richard D Halls investigations on YT. Guilty as hell from every angle. His are based on evidence not the crap spouted in the red top press. All the best investigative journalism is done on youtube. Its where I learned the world was flat.. Personally I've not seen it, however I wouldn't dismiss it just because it's on YouTube, that's just crass I know better than you twaddle. Perhaps watch it and then disagree with its content. If somebody posts the link I'll certainly cast my eye over it and then dissect it on its merit Theres far too much content being produced to ever watch it all so you have to have some sort of filter. If no reputable publication is willing to follow up on what Mr. Hall produces then theres probably a reason. Anybody can put up a youtube video and put images and words together that will sound convincing of whatever theyre trying to sell you on. The bar is so very very low that its not worth considering without something to give it some merit. In this case a quick google search shows that Richard D Hall is a conspiracy nut who also has theories on the usual conspiracy stuff of aliens, false flag operations, 9/11 and the McCann disappearance. Not worth anyones time.. Well that's an excellent point but to be fair lots of people struggle to get a mainstream platform like John pilger but they do produce some excellent and very good documentaries, although I admit he rarely covers aliens he does allure to government initiatives to start and continue warfare" But John Pilger is quite well respected and even if he doesnt always do something people agree with he has a track record that does give him credibility. Not just the quality of his work but also the fact that people will back him and publish his work. His works have received awards and been published by credible publications. Hes a good example of the difference between a random youtuber and someone credible although both have some views outside the mainstream. | |||
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" I would say politicians usually keep a distance from themselves and the parents just in case they turn out to be the perpetrators, you saw this in the Shannon Matthews case!." The family were suspects from the very start and how the family and media were handled were deliberate tactics. Many people were complaining about the way the search compared to the search for Holly and Jessica blaming it on a class divide. But the police handled it correctly in both situations and flushed both perpetrators out. So Shannon Matthews is not a typical case, it is very much the outlier. With Madeline McCann the decision was made that the best way forward involved thw UK government putting pressure on the investigation. Thats why you saw the British performing the DNA analysis (which the Portugeuse then interpreted wrongly because they werent experienced enough with these tests). Theres no conspiracy about the government being involved. Sophie Toscan du Plantier was a French woman who was killed in Ireland. The French government have been involved in that investigation for most of the time its been looked at. Sometimes assisting the Irish government and sometimes applying pressure. Its no different from how the UK government behaved with Madeline but Sophie isnt as famous so you might not have heard about it. This is the problem with arm chair investigators. Some random person on Youtube says "X happened and thats unheard of" and that feeds into their ideas of bizarre conspiracies. When really X is completely standard. | |||
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" I would say politicians usually keep a distance from themselves and the parents just in case they turn out to be the perpetrators, you saw this in the Shannon Matthews case!. The family were suspects from the very start and how the family and media were handled were deliberate tactics. Many people were complaining about the way the search compared to the search for Holly and Jessica blaming it on a class divide. But the police handled it correctly in both situations and flushed both perpetrators out. So Shannon Matthews is not a typical case, it is very much the outlier. With Madeline McCann the decision was made that the best way forward involved thw UK government putting pressure on the investigation. Thats why you saw the British performing the DNA analysis (which the Portugeuse then interpreted wrongly because they werent experienced enough with these tests). Theres no conspiracy about the government being involved. Sophie Toscan du Plantier was a French woman who was killed in Ireland. The French government have been involved in that investigation for most of the time its been looked at. Sometimes assisting the Irish government and sometimes applying pressure. Its no different from how the UK government behaved with Madeline but Sophie isnt as famous so you might not have heard about it. This is the problem with arm chair investigators. Some random person on Youtube says "X happened and thats unheard of" and that feeds into their ideas of bizarre conspiracies. When really X is completely standard." . First, I'll take your twisting of what wrote!. I wasn't comparing the police or forensic investigation of the Matthews case and the McCanns case,I was taking of the context of help from high up in government which was described as unprecedented and unusual Of course if you don't want to take my word for it you can read John bucks words who was the FCO head for southern Europe who wrote that in his memo to downing Street. The diplomat who was first sent to the mcanns in the first few hours reported that they found the mcanns story and testimony as inconsistent and dodgy, so it seems that there's no reason to be any different than the Matthews case in that regard | |||
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" This is the problem with arm chair investigators. Some random person on Youtube says "X happened and thats unheard of" and that feeds into their ideas of bizarre conspiracies. When really X is completely standard." . You see if you can't attack the evidence then attack the provider of the evidence!. It says more about you than i | |||
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" First, I'll take your twisting of what wrote!. I wasn't comparing the police or forensic investigation of the Matthews case and the McCanns case,I was taking of the context of help from high up in government which was described as unprecedented and unusual Of course if you don't want to take my word for it you can read John bucks words who was the FCO head for southern Europe who wrote that in his memo to downing Street. The diplomat who was first sent to the mcanns in the first few hours reported that they found the mcanns story and testimony as inconsistent and dodgy, so it seems that there's no reason to be any different than the Matthews case in that regard" My reason for mentioning the forensic evidence is this: the British police were in a far better position to handle this than the portugeuse. This is evident in the subsequent misinterpretation of the results of the analysis. The British police wouldnt have been involved at all unless the government were bringig pressure on to the investigation. The pressure from government was unusually strong (though its standard to be involved) but it was a deliberate strategy to give the best chance of finding the missing child. Just as the media and government followed a particular strategy in the Matthews case to take a lower profile to keep the focus on the family. And just as in the Soham case where they pursued a different strategy to flush out the killer through the media, government response and the way the police engaged with the community. There is nothing suspect in the governments actions in any of those 3 cases when you consider what the British police would have advised in each situation. The Portugeuse were clearly in over their heads as evidenced by their multiple mistakes. The best way to get a positive result relied on the British government bringing about pressure to force the Portugeuse to ask for help (which if you remember they werent in favour of at the start). Whether the McCanns are guilty or not the methods used by the British police and government were as good as they could be. And this is coming from an Irishman and we dont praise English governments often  | |||
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" This is the problem with arm chair investigators. Some random person on Youtube says "X happened and thats unheard of" and that feeds into their ideas of bizarre conspiracies. When really X is completely standard.. You see if you can't attack the evidence then attack the provider of the evidence!. It says more about you than i" In this day and age when there are political issues and decisions that effect millions, health decisions that put children at risk of dying and people are basing those on morally bankrupt and factually inaccurate sources then I make no apology for pointing out the lunacy of doing so. Anyone who looks at a youtube video from a completely discredited source and takes it seriously deserves, in fact needs, to hear how ridiculous that is. | |||
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" First, I'll take your twisting of what wrote!. I wasn't comparing the police or forensic investigation of the Matthews case and the McCanns case,I was taking of the context of help from high up in government which was described as unprecedented and unusual Of course if you don't want to take my word for it you can read John bucks words who was the FCO head for southern Europe who wrote that in his memo to downing Street. The diplomat who was first sent to the mcanns in the first few hours reported that they found the mcanns story and testimony as inconsistent and dodgy, so it seems that there's no reason to be any different than the Matthews case in that regard My reason for mentioning the forensic evidence is this: the British police were in a far better position to handle this than the portugeuse. This is evident in the subsequent misinterpretation of the results of the analysis. The British police wouldnt have been involved at all unless the government were bringig pressure on to the investigation. The pressure from government was unusually strong (though its standard to be involved) but it was a deliberate strategy to give the best chance of finding the missing child. Just as the media and government followed a particular strategy in the Matthews case to take a lower profile to keep the focus on the family. And just as in the Soham case where they pursued a different strategy to flush out the killer through the media, government response and the way the police engaged with the community. There is nothing suspect in the governments actions in any of those 3 cases when you consider what the British police would have advised in each situation. The Portugeuse were clearly in over their heads as evidenced by their multiple mistakes. The best way to get a positive result relied on the British government bringing about pressure to force the Portugeuse to ask for help (which if you remember they werent in favour of at the start). Whether the McCanns are guilty or not the methods used by the British police and government were as good as they could be. And this is coming from an Irishman and we dont praise English governments often ". Yes I'm in total agreement with you on all of that. However to make that assumption you would have to conclude that the UK government knew before hand that the Portuguese forensic department would mishandle the case or that the Portuguese police were inept (not really true) because the FCO stepped up the unprecedented and unusual response way before that came about!. In fact only within several hours. Now if this is true you'd have to then wonder why this wasn't "normal" procedure before they're case or indeed after it. Clarence Mitchell who was working for the governments MMU was seconded onto the case within days and was with the mcanns for six weeks on a full time basis as they're personal pr representative, that is clearly unprecedented and unusual and as I pointed out right at the beginning is no evidence of high level corruption perse but is an interesting point for investigation | |||
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" This is the problem with arm chair investigators. Some random person on Youtube says "X happened and thats unheard of" and that feeds into their ideas of bizarre conspiracies. When really X is completely standard.. You see if you can't attack the evidence then attack the provider of the evidence!. It says more about you than i In this day and age when there are political issues and decisions that effect millions, health decisions that put children at risk of dying and people are basing those on morally bankrupt and factually inaccurate sources then I make no apology for pointing out the lunacy of doing so. Anyone who looks at a youtube video from a completely discredited source and takes it seriously deserves, in fact needs, to hear how ridiculous that is." . Expect as I pointed out after I went out of my way to watch the documentary (have you) there is nothing in there that's discredited, it's a very well made look at the police evidence, interviews with witnesses, an actual full walk around of the scene, apartment, pool area, crèche. A look around the area, a look into previous reports, how they were handled, there's also interviews with the cadaver dogs trainer. It's actually very well made and very factual and sticks to the facts. Sure there's bits here and there that I might not use but that could be said about next weeks panorama show as well | |||
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