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"Just exactly how many forms of ID will be enough... ? I think there are plenty already and see no logical need to bring in another.. " Good question. As an employer when you ask people to bring in id they normally bring in a passport but I hire a lot of young people away from home so that delays the process in some cases as they have to send home for it. Or even for people who never had need for a passport as they've never been abroad. An id card sits in your wallet and is easily available. | |||
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"Just exactly how many forms of ID will be enough... ? I think there are plenty already and see no logical need to bring in another.. Good question. As an employer when you ask people to bring in id they normally bring in a passport but I hire a lot of young people away from home so that delays the process in some cases as they have to send home for it. Or even for people who never had need for a passport as they've never been abroad. An id card sits in your wallet and is easily available. " Indeed. Not everyone has a passport. And with the price of those things!!! I am reluctant to give my teen sons their passports to walk about with for ID!! I have an ID Card as I am French. Cheaper to produce. Can use it to travel in the EU (lol). It sits nicely in my purse next to my driving license. In France, this ID card has to be carried at all times in case of random street checks, etc... | |||
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"Just exactly how many forms of ID will be enough... ? I think there are plenty already and see no logical need to bring in another.. Good question. As an employer when you ask people to bring in id they normally bring in a passport but I hire a lot of young people away from home so that delays the process in some cases as they have to send home for it. Or even for people who never had need for a passport as they've never been abroad. An id card sits in your wallet and is easily available. Indeed. Not everyone has a passport. And with the price of those things!!! I am reluctant to give my teen sons their passports to walk about with for ID!! I have an ID Card as I am French. Cheaper to produce. Can use it to travel in the EU (lol). It sits nicely in my purse next to my driving license. In France, this ID card has to be carried at all times in case of random street checks, etc... "  totally agree with you here. One of my points with this was also to highlight how silly that argument was those yrs ago for not wanting them. With the rise of smartphones these days we are constantly being monitored. A couple weeks ago I was searching for dishwashers online. A few days later a flyer from tesco arrives in the post advertis5great design on dishwashers. Coincidence???? I think not | |||
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"OP as you are clearly in favour why not tell us why you think they are a good idea?" Read a bit further down I did state how much easier it would be. But I also said where I wondered where arguments for not having them would stand now? | |||
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"Just exactly how many forms of ID will be enough... ? I think there are plenty already and see no logical need to bring in another.. Good question. As an employer when you ask people to bring in id they normally bring in a passport but I hire a lot of young people away from home so that delays the process in some cases as they have to send home for it. Or even for people who never had need for a passport as they've never been abroad. An id card sits in your wallet and is easily available. " So does a driving licence,so does a bank card (not ID as such but ID must be produced to get one, you may say someone could borrow one, true.. but with the exact same name?). Then there is NAT INS card/letter, birth certificates which all help provide proof of ID. | |||
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"OP as you are clearly in favour why not tell us why you think they are a good idea? Read a bit further down I did state how much easier it would be. But I also said where I wondered where arguments for not having them would stand now? " You gave one example which is hardly a compelling argument | |||
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"OP as you are clearly in favour why not tell us why you think they are a good idea? Read a bit further down I did state how much easier it would be. But I also said where I wondered where arguments for not having them would stand now? " Much easier for what and who? | |||
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"OP as you are clearly in favour why not tell us why you think they are a good idea? Read a bit further down I did state how much easier it would be. But I also said where I wondered where arguments for not having them would stand now? Much easier for what and who?" for me,for one...i dont drive and its sometimes a real pain..would rather not carry my passport around too much,credit cards etc are no good..so yes i really dont see the fuss....all seemed to stem from the days when Empire was all..you could just stride across borders,waving your Telegraph,announcing 'I'm British!'..and expect the doors to open...those days are,thankfully,long gone!....and its very naive to have some Big Brother is watching paranoia...your every purchase with a card,store card,online,walk to the shops, is probably monitored already.. | |||
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"The idea of compulsory ID cards is perfectly fine assuming a benign government. The argument against them is that it cannot be assumed that govt will not abuse the power in future. Some local councils have attempted to use legislation designed to combat terrorism in order to prosecute people misusing recycling bins....." . An age old argument!. However somebody "misusing" bins do actually need prosecuting occasionally (look at the fly tipping), it's not the best answer to solve the problem but it would certainly help | |||
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"Just exactly how many forms of ID will be enough... ? I think there are plenty already and see no logical need to bring in another.. " Agree. My driving licence was renewed using info from my passport. I think a British passport and driving licence is id enough. | |||
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"Lot's of people don't have a driving license. Passport would be ok if it was credit card sized. A chip and pin style card, with a photo, it can hold NI number, NHS number, blood group etc. It doesn't give anybody any method to track you." . I agree with you | |||
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"Lot's of people don't have a driving license. Passport would be ok if it was credit card sized. A chip and pin style card, with a photo, it can hold NI number, NHS number, blood group etc. It doesn't give anybody any method to track you." I don't have a driving license but I don't want or need ID like that, ta. And then everyone who thinks projects like this are a good idea forget: * the cost (passports already cost £80 - unless you expect a free ID card?) * the roll out * the inevitable delays and cost increases * what happens when the government accidentally loses your data * or what happens if it's hacked. Yeah, put everyone's life on a computer. It'll be fine | |||
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"Lot's of people don't have a driving license. Passport would be ok if it was credit card sized. A chip and pin style card, with a photo, it can hold NI number, NHS number, blood group etc. It doesn't give anybody any method to track you. I don't have a driving license but I don't want or need ID like that, ta. And then everyone who thinks projects like this are a good idea forget: * the cost (passports already cost £80 - unless you expect a free ID card?) * the roll out * the inevitable delays and cost increases * what happens when the government accidentally loses your data * or what happens if it's hacked. Yeah, put everyone's life on a computer. It'll be fine " . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone | |||
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"The idea of compulsory ID cards is perfectly fine assuming a benign government. The argument against them is that it cannot be assumed that govt will not abuse the power in future. Some local councils have attempted to use legislation designed to combat terrorism in order to prosecute people misusing recycling bins...... An age old argument!. However somebody "misusing" bins do actually need prosecuting occasionally (look at the fly tipping), it's not the best answer to solve the problem but it would certainly help" Local councils are nuts. The only general conclusion you can reach is that of unintended consequences, or in this case using anti-terrorist powers to prevent fly tipping. Legislation doesn't make us safer. | |||
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"Lot's of people don't have a driving license. Passport would be ok if it was credit card sized. A chip and pin style card, with a photo, it can hold NI number, NHS number, blood group etc. It doesn't give anybody any method to track you. I don't have a driving license but I don't want or need ID like that, ta. And then everyone who thinks projects like this are a good idea forget: * the cost (passports already cost £80 - unless you expect a free ID card?) * the roll out * the inevitable delays and cost increases * what happens when the government accidentally loses your data * or what happens if it's hacked. Yeah, put everyone's life on a computer. It'll be fine . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone" In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless | |||
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"The idea of compulsory ID cards is perfectly fine assuming a benign government. The argument against them is that it cannot be assumed that govt will not abuse the power in future. Some local councils have attempted to use legislation designed to combat terrorism in order to prosecute people misusing recycling bins...... An age old argument!. However somebody "misusing" bins do actually need prosecuting occasionally (look at the fly tipping), it's not the best answer to solve the problem but it would certainly help Local councils are nuts. The only general conclusion you can reach is that of unintended consequences, or in this case using anti-terrorist powers to prevent fly tipping. Legislation doesn't make us safer." . That argument is always used but legislation is in reality a law to stop people being idiots because sadly a great deal of people just are | |||
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" In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless" wow, I wonder if credit card companies pay £18bn to issue cards and readers? I think the wool is being pulled over gullible government eyes... | |||
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" . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless" . Every government infrastructure ever done always costs billions, it's really irrelevant anyhow, the money if well spent would or should simply be recycled via extra "business" via tax and extra output, of course that's providing the government was using UK companies. The French are much better at keeping the money in France than the UK are but I digress. | |||
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" . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless. Every government infrastructure ever done always costs billions, it's really irrelevant anyhow, the money if well spent would or should simply be recycled via extra "business" via tax and extra output, of course that's providing the government was using UK companies. The French are much better at keeping the money in France than the UK are but I digress. " ...and I might remind you that we live in times of Austerity... So if you want an ID card, like a passport or a driving license, you'll end up paying for it. . But what is the point of an ID card? No government has suggested it be about health or NI numbers (already got a card for that...) - it's always about security. And no country that has ID card schemes has managed to prevent terrorist attacks - France, Spain - and nor would they have prevented something like the July bombings in London (which I witnessed). I think that on balance between protecting civil liberties and preventing crime, ID cards would hinder rather than help. And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be. | |||
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" And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be." Your data is already stored. That risk already exists. The card just proves you are DiamondJoe | |||
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"OP as you are clearly in favour why not tell us why you think they are a good idea? Read a bit further down I did state how much easier it would be. But I also said where I wondered where arguments for not having them would stand now? Much easier for what and who? for me,for one...i dont drive and its sometimes a real pain..would rather not carry my passport around too much,credit cards etc are no good..so yes i really dont see the fuss....all seemed to stem from the days when Empire was all..you could just stride across borders,waving your Telegraph,announcing 'I'm British!'..and expect the doors to open...those days are,thankfully,long gone!....and its very naive to have some Big Brother is watching paranoia...your every purchase with a card,store card,online,walk to the shops, is probably monitored already.." You can already get a Citizen card for ID, which you can choose to have. If Passports can be faked or obtained fraudulently, by criminals, I'm sure compulsory ID cards could be too. Unless they are biometric. | |||
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" . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless. Every government infrastructure ever done always costs billions, it's really irrelevant anyhow, the money if well spent would or should simply be recycled via extra "business" via tax and extra output, of course that's providing the government was using UK companies. The French are much better at keeping the money in France than the UK are but I digress. ...and I might remind you that we live in times of Austerity... So if you want an ID card, like a passport or a driving license, you'll end up paying for it. . But what is the point of an ID card? No government has suggested it be about health or NI numbers (already got a card for that...) - it's always about security. And no country that has ID card schemes has managed to prevent terrorist attacks - France, Spain - and nor would they have prevented something like the July bombings in London (which I witnessed). I think that on balance between protecting civil liberties and preventing crime, ID cards would help rather than hinder. And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be." . Yeah I didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than not having a universal ID card. Random people committing low level crime basically just give everybody a run around that takes hours to sort through and trace, they do this because occasionally some of them or people they know get away with it!. Most don't but the authorities spend hundreds of millions every year on tracking, tracing and sifting through bad peoples attempts to cover up their wrong doings, this comes from anything from employing illegals, drug crime, car crime like no insurance, fly tipping, scrap metal theft....... The list is very long. A simple must carry ID card with biometric data would help alleviate alot of the problems | |||
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"The idea of compulsory ID cards is perfectly fine assuming a benign government. The argument against them is that it cannot be assumed that govt will not abuse the power in future. Some local councils have attempted to use legislation designed to combat terrorism in order to prosecute people misusing recycling bins...... An age old argument!. However somebody "misusing" bins do actually need prosecuting occasionally (look at the fly tipping), it's not the best answer to solve the problem but it would certainly help" Just because it's an old argument doesn't mean that it's invalid. And whether the bin abusers deserved prosecution is irrelevant; it's the abuse of the legislation that gives a clue to the mind set of the govt and their propensity to use any ends to achieve their means | |||
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" And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be. Your data is already stored. That risk already exists. The card just proves you are DiamondJoe" There are of course multiple records about aspects of my life - hospital, education, dental, tax, mortgage, banking, foreign travel - but these are dispersed. You want to put it all in one "safe" place? Sure? There are very reasonable personal privacy concerns. Why keep so much personal information needed to establish an individual's identity? And who gets to look at it? Which bodies - the cops, ok. But as we've already seen anti-terrorist legislation was misused at local level. You sleep-walk into a surveillance society. And we're already the most surveilled society in Europe. And we lock more people up than any other European county save Russia. How much safer do you need to feel? | |||
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"Yeah I didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than not having a universal ID card. Random people committing low level crime basically just give everybody a run around that takes hours to sort through and trace, they do this because occasionally some of them or people they know get away with it!. Most don't but the authorities spend hundreds of millions every year on tracking, tracing and sifting through bad peoples attempts to cover up their wrong doings, this comes from anything from employing illegals, drug crime, car crime like no insurance, fly tipping, scrap metal theft....... The list is very long. A simple must carry ID card with biometric data would help alleviate alot of the problems " See point above - you're now suggesting we give our data and power to unelected officials at all levels of government. Bad idea. | |||
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" And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be. Your data is already stored. That risk already exists. The card just proves you are DiamondJoe There are of course multiple records about aspects of my life - hospital, education, dental, tax, mortgage, banking, foreign travel - but these are dispersed. You want to put it all in one "safe" place? Sure? There are very reasonable personal privacy concerns. Why keep so much personal information needed to establish an individual's identity? And who gets to look at it? Which bodies - the cops, ok. But as we've already seen anti-terrorist legislation was misused at local level. You sleep-walk into a surveillance society. And we're already the most surveilled society in Europe. And we lock more people up than any other European county save Russia. How much safer do you need to feel?" No, no need for it all to be in one place. The hospital use your id number as the reference on your hospital records. The DVLA use it on their records for you. All the data exists now, dispersed and could remain so. The card only needs to identify you as you. | |||
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Honestly, what an earth are you lot on about, your like trumpsters just rolling out irrelevant facts and lies to "guard" agaist some "myth" you think is a problem | |||
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"Yeah yeah yeah, I know the argument about sleep walking into a surveillance society, it's bollocks mostly. Germany has ID cards, France has ID cards. They actually have better privacies laws than we do as well, things don't have to be mutually exclusive" "265 government departments and as many as 48,000 accredited private sector organisations" would have had access to the 2006 database, and that 163 million identity verifications or more would take place each year. You cool with that? Some random picking over your life? "A people who trade liberty for security deserve neither." ~ Ben Franklin | |||
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"The distopian despots and dictatorships of the right wing crazy loony governments of Europe!. Oh yeah just look over the water, they've all had compulsory ID cards for years, nobodys rounded up the populations into trains and concentration camps for quite awhile still .
Honestly, what an earth are you lot on about, your like trumpsters just rolling out irrelevant facts and lies to "guard" agaist some "myth" you think is a problem" Or they don't agree with the idea and are explaining why, in a forum discussion kind of way?
I agree with ID cards, but don't see the type posts you are alluding to. | |||
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"Yeah yeah yeah, I know the argument about sleep walking into a surveillance society, it's bollocks mostly. Germany has ID cards, France has ID cards. They actually have better privacies laws than we do as well, things don't have to be mutually exclusive" France appear to tell a lot of countries how to run their nations whilst their local Mayors or even national policies can seemingly be so anti plural or anti democratic. They seem to enact policies without reproach yet are free to wave their fingers at everybody else. Cockleheads. | |||
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" . The cost analysis has always been on the side of the card, the cost is more than made up for by time saving on enquiries just by the police alone In 2006, last time this was suggested and abandoned by a Labour g'ment, the cost was estimated at between £12-18bn Yes, billion. That's a lot of phone calls... And we still haven't established how safe OUR - yes it's ours after all, not the State's - will be. It's pointless. Every government infrastructure ever done always costs billions, it's really irrelevant anyhow, the money if well spent would or should simply be recycled via extra "business" via tax and extra output, of course that's providing the government was using UK companies. The French are much better at keeping the money in France than the UK are but I digress. ...and I might remind you that we live in times of Austerity... So if you want an ID card, like a passport or a driving license, you'll end up paying for it. . But what is the point of an ID card? No government has suggested it be about health or NI numbers (already got a card for that...) - it's always about security. And no country that has ID card schemes has managed to prevent terrorist attacks - France, Spain - and nor would they have prevented something like the July bombings in London (which I witnessed). I think that on balance between protecting civil liberties and preventing crime, ID cards would help rather than hinder. And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be.. Yeah I didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than not having a universal ID card. Random people committing low level crime basically just give everybody a run around that takes hours to sort through and trace, they do this because occasionally some of them or people they know get away with it!. Most don't but the authorities spend hundreds of millions every year on tracking, tracing and sifting through bad peoples attempts to cover up their wrong doings, this comes from anything from employing illegals, drug crime, car crime like no insurance, fly tipping, scrap metal theft....... The list is very long. A simple must carry ID card with biometric data would help alleviate alot of the problems " What happens when these low level criminals don't have their ID cards on them when they commit a crime, and the police need to identify them? Do they pop home to get it, to save the police the aggravation of fingerprinting them or dna test them to see if they have any previous? | |||
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"The distopian despots and dictatorships of the right wing crazy loony governments of Europe!. Oh yeah just look over the water, they've all had compulsory ID cards for years, nobodys rounded up the populations into trains and concentration camps for quite awhile still .
Honestly, what an earth are you lot on about, your like trumpsters just rolling out irrelevant facts and lies to "guard" agaist some "myth" you think is a problem
Or they don't agree with the idea and are explaining why, in a forum discussion kind of way?
I agree with ID cards, but don't see the type posts you are alluding to.". Well it's either the UK government are out to collect all our data then misuse it to kill/tax us to kingdom come or it's not?. I'd suggest if people really really do believe that the UK government could not be trusted with our "personal details" which is a joke in itself, most of this stuff is held by them anyway. they should really stop voting for these egg heads. The vast majority of people are in the main law abiding there's a small bit at the bottom and a small bit at the top who quite frankly will do there up most to get out of paying anything and break or bend every law and regulation trying to do it. Id cards would prevent some of that misuse and abuse, not all I agree but they would go someway to help unlike the current system which in the main helps them to get away with it. | |||
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"And we still haven't addressed how safe our data would be.. Yeah I didn't say it was perfect, I said it was better than not having a universal ID card. Random people committing low level crime basically just give everybody a run around that takes hours to sort through and trace, they do this because occasionally some of them or people they know get away with it!. Most don't but the authorities spend hundreds of millions every year on tracking, tracing and sifting through bad peoples attempts to cover up their wrong doings, this comes from anything from employing illegals, drug crime, car crime like no insurance, fly tipping, scrap metal theft....... The list is very long. A simple must carry ID card with biometric data would help alleviate alot of the problems What happens when these low level criminals don't have their ID cards on them when they commit a crime, and the police need to identify them? Do they pop home to get it, to save the police the aggravation of fingerprinting them or dna test them to see if they have any previous? " ...and it's also perfectly possible that, as with other forms of ID, ID cards will become the target of organised crime. Having everything in one place makes it easier for criminals... | |||
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"Of course, if we had ID cards for all with biometric data, it could be used simply to identify you to a system. If you take the NHS for example, a swipe of your card would identify you and allow access to medical records held on the NHS system. It would not give them any other information as that is held elsewhere. It would prevent a lot of the health tourism costing the NHS billions. It would also mean that with biometric information stored for everyone, police could identify people from matching their eye/finger print. The police would not know anything about your NHS info because that is on the NHS systems. The ID card is simply the key, not the repository of all your data. I don't commit crimes so I'm not worried about ID cards. I have carried an ID card around for work for 25 years. It's never been an issue for me. " The technology isn't there yet. Tests of facial recognition software showed error rates of up to 52 percent for the disabled. The cards could stop some credit cards from working properly, when kept in the same wallet. | |||
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"It's an expensive, wild-goose chase. £12-18bn (+) on an unnecessary ID card? Or More, say, for the NHS. Your choice. " Sorry but whoever came up with / accepted / passed on £300 each needs sacking. It is an ID card with a photo and a secure unique number for each of us, that can be read by a scanner i.e chip and pin. It doesn't need to give a dentist access to your DVLA data, just identify you as you. | |||
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"It is a ID system to check that you are only claiming 1 lot of benefits, that you are entitled to nhs treatments, that you don't aren't an absconded offender etc etc It doesn't give anybody control over your life, just a single, simple method of proving who you are. Really... how long until you have to produce it to vote? " | |||
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"It is a ID system to check that you are only claiming 1 lot of benefits, that you are entitled to nhs treatments, that you don't aren't an absconded offender etc etc It doesn't give anybody control over your life, just a single, simple method of proving who you are. Really... how long until you have to produce it to vote? " Good, you need to prove you are eligible. What difference does that make? | |||
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"It's an expensive, wild-goose chase. £12-18bn (+) on an unnecessary ID card? Or More, say, for the NHS. Your choice. Sorry but whoever came up with / accepted / passed on £300 each needs sacking. It is an ID card with a photo and a secure unique number for each of us, that can be read by a scanner i.e chip and pin. It doesn't need to give a dentist access to your DVLA data, just identify you as you." I don't get the point then if it's just to identify me as me. What's the point ? I can't think of any situation where I have had to idedetify myself as myself that I've ever struggled to do in my life. | |||
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"It is a ID system to check that you are only claiming 1 lot of benefits, that you are entitled to nhs treatments, that you don't aren't an absconded offender etc etc It doesn't give anybody control over your life, just a single, simple method of proving who you are. " . Stop wasting your breath, I don't know why I bothered myself. strong is trumpisim in these ones | |||
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" It doesn't need to give a dentist access to your DVLA data, just identify you as you. I don't get the point then if it's just to identify me as me. What's the point ? I can't think of any situation where I have had to idedetify myself as myself that I've ever struggled to do in my life. " Are you an absconded offender / benefit cheat / health tourist / credit card fraudster? That's why it won't impact your life in any negative way. | |||
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"It is a ID system to check that you are only claiming 1 lot of benefits, that you are entitled to nhs treatments, that you don't aren't an absconded offender etc etc It doesn't give anybody control over your life, just a single, simple method of proving who you are. Really... how long until you have to produce it to vote? Good, you need to prove you are eligible. What difference does that make?" The difference is being 18 and a UK citizen gives me that right to vote, not the compulsory carrying of a card that only duplicates information I already hold and can provide... | |||
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" It doesn't need to give a dentist access to your DVLA data, just identify you as you. I don't get the point then if it's just to identify me as me. What's the point ? I can't think of any situation where I have had to idedetify myself as myself that I've ever struggled to do in my life. Are you an absconded offender / benefit cheat / health tourist / credit card fraudster? That's why it won't impact your life in any negative way." Until it's lost or stolen and I have to pay for a replacement or I forget to carry it and fined by a overzealous PC SO it copper. Then I'd say It is a negative impact. | |||
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" Good, you need to prove you are eligible. What difference does that make? The difference is being 18 and a UK citizen gives me that right to vote, not the compulsory carrying of a card that only duplicates information I already hold and can provide..." I'd rather have a credit sized ID card in my wallet than carrying my passport around. | |||
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"The "state" has become the new boogeyman. Woooooooooo there out to get you "The state requires appropriate checks and balances, which the opposition is not doing atm, viz., * Investigatory Powers Act * Section 40 for press regulation Both sailed through and now the g'ment would like plans to radically increase prison terms for revealing state secrets and to prosecute journalists, or whistle blowers, depending on your POV. | |||
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" Good, you need to prove you are eligible. What difference does that make? The difference is being 18 and a UK citizen gives me that right to vote, not the compulsory carrying of a card that only duplicates information I already hold and can provide... I'd rather have a credit sized ID card in my wallet than carrying my passport around." I see your point and I can understand it completely, I don't agree with it but I can understand it. I carried a compulsory ID card at all times for 10 years.. there was however a logical reason for that, as a private citizen in a democracy that already has numerous means of ID there is no need for more. | |||
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"The "state" has become the new boogeyman. Woooooooooo there out to get you
The state requires appropriate checks and balances, which the opposition is not doing atm, viz.,
* Investigatory Powers Act
* Section 40 for press regulation
Both sailed through and now the g'ment would like plans to radically increase prison terms for revealing state secrets and to prosecute journalists, or whistle blowers, depending on your POV."And as we've discussed, it's the law of unintended consequence - what these regulations are subsequently applied to because the law-makers didn't do a good enough job of it in the first place, leaving laws open to interpretation by idiots and busybodies. I still don;t see the necessity of one | |||
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" Good, you need to prove you are eligible. What difference does that make? The difference is being 18 and a UK citizen gives me that right to vote, not the compulsory carrying of a card that only duplicates information I already hold and can provide... I'd rather have a credit sized ID card in my wallet than carrying my passport around." I don't carry anything when I leave the house. I'm sat in a pub 300 miles from home at the moment with only cash and keys in my pocket. I will only carry proof of ID with me if I know I need to produce it. Then the existing stuff will suffice. | |||
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"Well I have to say I've enjoyed the debate, for the most part pleasant and honest, gonna go walk about for a bit now... for the time being we will have to agree to disagree.. "Don't forget your ID or you might forget who you are. | |||
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"How dare they, my human rights are being infringed. Now let me just go back on to my phone which I take everywhere with me and has every single bit of personal data I have on including PayPal, banking, health, personal, family photos, dirty photos, porn sites, Facebook, cooking instructions, my family's home address, work address, my address, kids school stuff, traces my movements, emails and phone calls and costs a bleeding fortune and complain about having to have a dirt cheap ID card "But what is the necessity of an ID card? | |||
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"Personally, I like the idea of a National ID card, but a multi purpose one which can include driving get license, passport, and anything else you need. One Card to replace them all. Cal" One expensive, easily losable, hackable document that hundreds of agencies and thousands of individuals can look at? | |||
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"I think that they would be a good idea, but only if they replaced every other form of id that we have to carry now so instead of carrying a driving license and national insurance card and all the other cards that identify us they are replaced with just one. Also as someone said previously that it is used as a key to unlock your personal data, so if you go and see a doctor you have to scan your card and give a matching fingerprint to the one on the card. Same with benefits and voting in elections as well as dealing with the police, but if you don't have your card it wouldn't matter you could just provide a fingerprint to gain access to services. These services wouldn't have access to information that they didn't need to know about as the information on the card would only be identifying info and emergency medical information, like if your allergic to anything or diabetic and so on. The cost then would even itself out as you would save on all the other forms of id that are produced?" Didn;t the NHS try this a few years back before abandoning it. Costs estimated originally at £2.3bn, final costs £20bn+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Connecting_for_Health And I direct you in particular to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Connecting_for_Health#Data_security_risks | |||
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"Personally, I like the idea of a National ID card, but a multi purpose one which can include driving get license, passport, and anything else you need. One Card to replace them all. Cal One expensive, easily losable, hackable document that hundreds of agencies and thousands of individuals can look at?" Yeah, stick with your birth certificate , nhs card and old gas bill, they are completely un-copyable..... | |||
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"No... one biometric secured super card, funded by the government, and which would mean that we don't have to pay for a new driving license and passport if we change house, or get older. Just need to update the records. How is a single card, secured with proper biometric systems any less secure than a printed document with a pretty holographic badge on it?" You'll end up paying for it, you do realise that? | |||
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"To all of those that say they don't want to be monitored Pssst!!!! You have a mobile phone that you carry with you almost everywhere "Yeah, and I control what information it relay about me to my provider, websites and GPS. I have control over that | |||
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"How dare they, my human rights are being infringed. Now let me just go back on to my phone which I take everywhere with me and has every single bit of personal data I have on including PayPal, banking, health, personal, family photos, dirty photos, porn sites, Facebook, cooking instructions, my family's home address, work address, my address, kids school stuff, traces my movements, emails and phone calls and costs a bleeding fortune and complain about having to have a dirt cheap ID card "It's angry little men like you that put me off carrying anything that can identify myself to anyone who I don't wish to know who I am. | |||
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"I think that they would be a good idea, but only if they replaced every other form of id that we have to carry now so instead of carrying a driving license and national insurance card and all the other cards that identify us they are replaced with just one. Also as someone said previously that it is used as a key to unlock your personal data, so if you go and see a doctor you have to scan your card and give a matching fingerprint to the one on the card. Same with benefits and voting in elections as well as dealing with the police, but if you don't have your card it wouldn't matter you could just provide a fingerprint to gain access to services. These services wouldn't have access to information that they didn't need to know about as the information on the card would only be identifying info and emergency medical information, like if your allergic to anything or diabetic and so on. The cost then would even itself out as you would save on all the other forms of id that are produced? Didn;t the NHS try this a few years back before abandoning it. Costs estimated originally at £2.3bn, final costs £20bn+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Connecting_for_Health And I direct you in particular to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Connecting_for_Health#Data_security_risks" I understand what you are saying, but that wasn't my idea from what it says it seems to me that it was the bit that everyone could access there own medical records. I wouldn't allow that as it just gives people an opening to hack the system! I would have it so to access your details you would have to have a fingerprint so you would know when they access your details, the cost would have to be managed properly which I know the successive governments haven't been very good at! | |||
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"How dare they, my human rights are being infringed. Now let me just go back on to my phone which I take everywhere with me and has every single bit of personal data I have on including PayPal, banking, health, personal, family photos, dirty photos, porn sites, Facebook, cooking instructions, my family's home address, work address, my address, kids school stuff, traces my movements, emails and phone calls and costs a bleeding fortune and complain about having to have a dirt cheap ID card
It's angry little men like you that put me off carrying anything that can identify myself to anyone who I don't wish to know who I am. ". Angry! No , childish, year maybe!. Still at least I'm not presumptions | |||
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"Make it entirely optional and its development and operational costs only funded by those individuals and political parties wanting it. No taxpayer via taxes/government funding permitted. " I think they tried that didn't they as part of the consultation/report thing last time.... | |||
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"Personally, I like the idea of a National ID card, but a multi purpose one which can include driving get license, passport, and anything else you need. One Card to replace them all. Cal One expensive, easily losable, hackable document that hundreds of agencies and thousands of individuals can look at? Yeah, stick with your birth certificate , nhs card and old gas bill, they are completely un-copyable....." why not go the whole hog and have a chip in your arm as you have nothing to lose or gain with it being there theres no need for the id card or the biometric other than the ability to track its users and what they are purchasing as quoted already war time was different and was disposed of after the war as goes for the arguments of the nhs or to claim what you rightly deserve in this country isnt going to make jack all difference you think its going to be different when we leave the euro dream on. read up on it to do business with euro you need to except euro rules what do you actually think we import most of it would be food | |||
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Drop compulsory and introduce voluntary and yeah go for it... if it's that good then it'll take off if people on the whole don't want it them it'll fall flat on its face... the proof is in the pudding.... or in this case maybe the card | |||
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"I can see some of the benefits of the idea, one or two I even sort of agree with... only just mind
Drop compulsory and introduce voluntary and yeah go for it... if it's that good then it'll take off if people on the whole don't want it them it'll fall flat on its face... the proof is in the pudding.... or in this case maybe the card "Bloody expensive experimental pudding. And maybe I want ice cream. | |||
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"I can see some of the benefits of the idea, one or two I even sort of agree with... only just mind
Drop compulsory and introduce voluntary and yeah go for it... if it's that good then it'll take off if people on the whole don't want it them it'll fall flat on its face... the proof is in the pudding.... or in this case maybe the card
Bloody expensive experimental pudding.
And maybe I want ice cream.
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"To all of those that say they don't want to be monitored Pssst!!!! You have a mobile phone that you carry with you almost everywhere "psst no I don't | |||
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"Just how many people in this thread have been using passports and driving licenses to prove ID to the police recently? There were a number of reasons for me objecting to the idea last time. 1 They contain biometrics 2 Compulsory carry 3 Commercial funding was to offset some cost giving those commercial interests access to data 4 Tracking chip proposed There is also the LACK of security they would cause. Trust put into identical ID cards that are going to be easy to forge if you have terrorist level funding. Don't think any of those concerns have gone away, so I still object to ID cards. " Terrorist level funding .... that's a bit of a joke, not your statement you understand, more the assertion you need any kind of funding... several months ago I read a colleagues bank card through his wallet in his back pocket using my mobile and a app that's free.. and I'm no techno geek.. he has since invested in a skim proof wallet. Very easy to skim or clone most cards these days be they ID or bank cards. They can get a smart as they like with any type of card, but if there is money to be made then the crims get smart too... | |||
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"Well Germany,France and Belgium have ID cards... how's that working out? So they achieve nothing. They will cost as much as Trident, probably funded by cuts to social services and the NHS Still want them? They will give criminals easy access to every where you go, and let them know when your home is empty. Still a fan? How many times a week are you asked for ID? Worth £30,000,000,000 to you? Exactly what was the plus side again? " . They cost ten euros for a biometric one in Albania!!!. What do you mean by hows that working out I Germany France and Belgium?. Last time I went through, it was working just fine | |||
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"Last time I went through, it was working just fine "Did you produce one? did any of the terrorists have problems for not having one? | |||
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"Last time I went through, it was working just fine
Did you produce one? did any of the terrorists have problems for not having one?". Yes I did actually, I had to produce it three times on a six day journey!. Wasn't a problem, and yes even terrorists find problems with it | |||
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"my sister owed rent money to the council, she was unaware of it despite them having her phone number. they sent a letter to her daughter some years later, what it's got to do with her daughter i have no idea? so yeah, hand over all your details to the government and i'm sure they won't abuse that or take the piss or anything..." . Who's taking the piss the most, the council for trying to recover money or your sister for not paying what she owes? | |||
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"my sister owed rent money to the council, she was unaware of it despite them having her phone number. they sent a letter to her daughter some years later, what it's got to do with her daughter i have no idea? so yeah, hand over all your details to the government and i'm sure they won't abuse that or take the piss or anything.... Who's taking the piss the most, the council for trying to recover money or your sister for not paying what she owes?" she didn't even know she owed it them until she phoned them herself this week, they had her number and could've phoned about it. instead they sent a letter to her daughter who owes them nothing. sure that makes sense.  | |||
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"Last time I went through, it was working just fine
Did you produce one? did any of the terrorists have problems for not having one?.
Yes I did actually, I had to produce it three times on a six day journey!. Wasn't a problem, and yes even terrorists find problems with it "You may of course be a citizen of all 3 countries mentioned, who happens to live in Manchester. but if you are a UK citizen, what were you doing with French, Belgian, and German ID cards? I travel extensively in Europe, have only ever needed my ID at the UK border. | |||
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"my sister owed rent money to the council, she was unaware of it despite them having her phone number. they sent a letter to her daughter some years later, what it's got to do with her daughter i have no idea? so yeah, hand over all your details to the government and i'm sure they won't abuse that or take the piss or anything.... Who's taking the piss the most, the council for trying to recover money or your sister for not paying what she owes? she didn't even know she owed it them until she phoned them herself this week, they had her number and could've phoned about it. instead they sent a letter to her daughter who owes them nothing. sure that makes sense. ". Do you get out of speeding fines by claiming not to know the speed limit as well?. Mistakes happen sure, sometimes things get "forgotten" other times people just take the piss in trying to "get away" with not paying. There's huge fraud in the benefits system, alot of it is because identities are twisted so they can claim several times, there's huge fraud in the NHS with holiday treatment. Again all much easier sorted by having a proper biometric card that knows your entitlement | |||
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"Last time I went through, it was working just fine
Did you produce one? did any of the terrorists have problems for not having one?.
Yes I did actually, I had to produce it three times on a six day journey!. Wasn't a problem, and yes even terrorists find problems with it
You may of course be a citizen of all 3 countries mentioned, who happens to live in Manchester. but if you are a UK citizen, what were you doing with French, Belgian, and German ID cards?
I travel extensively in Europe, have only ever needed my ID at the UK border. ". I was traveling from Stockholm to cologne by car and no I'm just a citizen of one country and yes like American express my cards taken everywhere | |||
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"my sister owed rent money to the council, she was unaware of it despite them having her phone number. they sent a letter to her daughter some years later, what it's got to do with her daughter i have no idea? so yeah, hand over all your details to the government and i'm sure they won't abuse that or take the piss or anything.... Who's taking the piss the most, the council for trying to recover money or your sister for not paying what she owes? she didn't even know she owed it them until she phoned them herself this week, they had her number and could've phoned about it. instead they sent a letter to her daughter who owes them nothing. sure that makes sense. .
Do you get out of speeding fines by claiming not to know the speed limit as well?.
Mistakes happen sure, sometimes things get "forgotten" other times people just take the piss in trying to "get away" with not paying.
There's huge fraud in the benefits system, alot of it is because identities are twisted so they can claim several times, there's huge fraud in the NHS with holiday treatment.
Again all much easier sorted by having a proper biometric card that knows your entitlement"they didn't tell her about the debt, despite being able to do so. her daughter forgot about the letter and also didn't tell her. council fucked up. nothing to do with my sister trying not to pay anything or committing fraud, she only found out about it this week when she contacted the council herself. and she's contacted the council about a few things this month so they haven't even got her name flagged up, or if they have it took ages for it to appear. | |||
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"I was traveling from Stockholm to cologne by car and no I'm just a citizen of one country and yes like American express my cards taken everywhere "Travelled through those countries many times, there are of course no border checks as you would know. So where exactly did you use your I'D cards? | |||
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"I was traveling from Stockholm to cologne by car and no I'm just a citizen of one country and yes like American express my cards taken everywhere
Travelled through those countries many times, there are of course no border checks as you would know. So where exactly did you use your I'D cards?". You've obviously not travelled there recently then!. I got checked at road stops in Sweden, Denmark and Germany. | |||
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"I was traveling from Stockholm to cologne by car and no I'm just a citizen of one country and yes like American express my cards taken everywhere
Travelled through those countries many times, there are of course no border checks as you would know. So where exactly did you use your I'D cards?"It might have been aftet Paris attacks, didn't they suspend schengen for a while? | |||
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"I was traveling from Stockholm to cologne by car and no I'm just a citizen of one country and yes like American express my cards taken everywhere
Travelled through those countries many times, there are of course no border checks as you would know. So where exactly did you use your I'D cards?
It might have been aftet Paris attacks, didn't they suspend schengen for a while?". I can tell you now Denmark have border checks, as does Sweden. Germany was just a random road stop. | |||
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"suppose, the thought from me is, that they already are using ID of other people to contact them about people they know. is this something they should be doing? they already don't use the info they have now to sort things out, so why give them more?" There's 2 different issues in my mind. One is sharing info / data protection. The other is an ID scheme. I see problems with data sharing, but not proving who you are with an ID card. | |||
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"suppose, the thought from me is, that they already are using ID of other people to contact them about people they know. is this something they should be doing? they already don't use the info they have now to sort things out, so why give them more?" . That's why this country has checks and balances, why we have courts, high court's, supreme court's and appeals because often the state does over step their mark. That's why there's even less to be scared of from ID cards | |||
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"That's why there's even less to be scared of from ID cards" Except an increased risk of fraud, a large bill for producing them, and 0 benefit | |||
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"Travelled from UK to Slovenia, via France, Austria, Italy then north Austria German, Poland Ferry to Sweden I showed my passport, then back through Denmark Germany, Holland Belgium and France last summer, not stopped once on the road... Obviously I just look honest through binoculars... ". Very fascinating, my trip was last month, there's border checks from Sweden to Denmark and from Germany to Denmark,I didn't imagine it, they asked for my ID card, I showed it, I passed through, viola | |||
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"That's why there's even less to be scared of from ID cards Except an increased risk of fraud, a large bill for producing them, and 0 benefit ". Slight increase in a chance of personal fraud big increase in tackling and reducing other fraud 10 euros in Albania. 25 euros in Belgium, 30 in Germany. Hellish expense! | |||
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"Travelled from UK to Slovenia, via France, Austria, Italy then north Austria German, Poland Ferry to Sweden I showed my passport, then back through Denmark Germany, Holland Belgium and France last summer, not stopped once on the road... Obviously I just look honest through binoculars... .
Very fascinating, my trip was last month, there's border checks from Sweden to Denmark and from Germany to Denmark,I didn't imagine it, they asked for my ID card, I showed it, I passed through, viola"That may have started after the Berlin Market. What ID card did you use? was it a UK Passport? if so problem solved we have one that works | |||
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"Travelled from UK to Slovenia, via France, Austria, Italy then north Austria German, Poland Ferry to Sweden I showed my passport, then back through Denmark Germany, Holland Belgium and France last summer, not stopped once on the road... Obviously I just look honest through binoculars... .
Very fascinating, my trip was last month, there's border checks from Sweden to Denmark and from Germany to Denmark,I didn't imagine it, they asked for my ID card, I showed it, I passed through, viola
That may have started after the Berlin Market. What ID card did you use? was it a UK Passport? if so problem solved we have one that works ". No not a UK passport,I used an ID card that carries biometric data , and no before you ask, not UK issued | |||
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"That's why there's even less to be scared of from ID cards Except an increased risk of fraud, a large bill for producing them, and 0 benefit . Slight increase in a chance of personal fraud big increase in tackling and reducing other fraud
10 euros in Albania. 25 euros in Belgium, 30 in Germany.
Hellish expense!"I take it those numbers are what the government are charging citizens for cards? The quoted figure for the proposed UK card was £12 billion, given that government contracts always overrun costs by over 100% and that was 20 years ago, gave me my estimate of £30 billion cost. no idea what the retail price would be, but passports are a lot more than €30 and don't use biometrics yet. | |||
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"No not a UK passport,I used an ID card that carries biometric data , and no before you ask, not UK issued "That's cool, so you are saying either that you are not a UK citizen so shouldn't be pushing to change UK laws, or you didn't use a valid National ID card. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary?" It's a card to prove your identity. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary?" That's why I asked above how often have people used legal ID recently, I find it the exception rather than the rule. | |||
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"That's why there's even less to be scared of from ID cards Except an increased risk of fraud, a large bill for producing them, and 0 benefit . Slight increase in a chance of personal fraud big increase in tackling and reducing other fraud
10 euros in Albania. 25 euros in Belgium, 30 in Germany.
Hellish expense!
I take it those numbers are what the government are charging citizens for cards?
The quoted figure for the proposed UK card was £12 billion, given that government contracts always overrun costs by over 100% and that was 20 years ago, gave me my estimate of £30 billion cost. no idea what the retail price would be, but passports are a lot more than €30 and don't use biometrics yet.". That's correct, the EU manages to do things alot cheaper than the UK government does, maybe that's because the EU doesn't have as much fraud to pay for because they have ID cards | |||
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"sci-fi tells me we should be scanning retinas, DNA, and shit like that by now, what happened to that? " It doesn't work | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity." When? | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When?" When necessary. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary."
Like...? | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary." With the exception of travelling abroad, when is it necessary? | |||
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"No not a UK passport,I used an ID card that carries biometric data , and no before you ask, not UK issued
That's cool, so you are saying either that you are not a UK citizen so shouldn't be pushing to change UK laws, or you didn't use a valid National ID card. ". Your just being a bit of an arse now to be honest. I have dual nationality, is that ok with you?. If you Google border checks in EU like I said you'll see I was just telling you what I saw without the need for your long winded story about your trip across the continent. As they say in dragons den. I'm out | |||
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"sci-fi tells me we should be scanning retinas, DNA, and shit like that by now, what happened to that? It doesn't work" face recognition isn't great tbh. shame though, that we haven't really advanced that much as we could've done. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary.
Like...?"Like at bedtime, I'll tell you tomorrow. | |||
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"That's correct, the EU manages to do things alot cheaper than the UK government does, maybe that's because the EU doesn't have as much fraud to pay for because they have ID cards "Well if my experience of Albanian cars is anything to go by they nicked a bunch og German ID cards, sprayed them white, without bothering to remove the D stickers and wrote names on them in biro... no wonder they are €10 | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary. With the exception of travelling abroad, when is it necessary?" There was one time in the last 3 yrs when I was carded aged 35 in Tescos buying booze. And I don;t drive or regularly carry a passport.
But I explained that I have a partner and child, a mortgage, a job in London and for the sake of all of the above I REALLY NEED THIS WINE, NOW, PLEASE.
She relented.
Didn't need an ID card | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary.
Like...?"You need it everywhere. Data collecting is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You need it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You need it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. When you claim JSA, PIP, or council tax rebates. When you use the bank, gym or google, or top up your phone. Neo, you were born into a world of collective data and they're coming for your mind. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary. With the exception of travelling abroad, when is it necessary? There was one time in the last 3 yrs when I was carded aged 35 in Tescos buying booze. And I don;t drive or regularly carry a passport.
But I explained that I have a partner and child, a mortgage, a job in London and for the sake of all of the above I REALLY NEED THIS WINE, NOW, PLEASE.
She relented.
Didn't need an ID card "Terribly sorry to hear of your traumatic experience Joe, I think we should spend £30 billion on a card system which is vastly inferior to our current system to prevent this ever happening to anyone again 
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"Bloody hell the paranoia is immense, no wonder we get stuff like trump and brexit!. They say the public get what the public deserve,I can confirm that today" I am not paranoid, I am a realist, ID cards are inferior to passports for security, no better than a driving license and the reality is the various systems that are supposed to link up behind them can't be linked anyway, and biometrics just don't work... Add to that that 99% of the population don't ever need to prove identity except when a passport would be needed anyway and you just have to ask why do it? | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary.
Like...?
You need it everywhere. Data collecting is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You need it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You need it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. When you claim JSA, PIP, or council tax rebates. When you use the bank, gym or google, or top up your phone.
Neo, you were born into a world of collective data and they're coming for your mind."*as Michael Caine* D'you know, when I watched that film, The Matrix wiv that Keanu Reeves lad, after I left the theatre I 'ad an odd thought - WHAT IF WE'RE IN THE MATRIX AND BIN LADEN IS TRYING TO GET US OUT? Fucked me right up, that did. | |||
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"Can one person tell me why ID cards are necessary? It's a card to prove your identity. When? When necessary.
Like...?
You need it everywhere. Data collecting is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You need it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You need it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. When you claim JSA, PIP, or council tax rebates. When you use the bank, gym or google, or top up your phone.
Neo, you were born into a world of collective data and they're coming for your mind.
*as Michael Caine*
D'you know, when I watched that film, The Matrix wiv that Keanu Reeves lad, after I left the theatre I 'ad an odd thought - WHAT IF WE'RE IN THE MATRIX AND BIN LADEN IS TRYING TO GET US OUT?
Fucked me right up, that did. "lol, could be true i guess. everything is fucked up, it's ok. | |||
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"Bloody hell the paranoia is immense, no wonder we get stuff like trump and brexit!. They say the public get what the public deserve,I can confirm that today I am not paranoid, I am a realist, ID cards are inferior to passports for security, no better than a driving license and the reality is the various systems that are supposed to link up behind them can't be linked anyway, and biometrics just don't work... Add to that that 99% of the population don't ever need to prove identity except when a passport would be needed anyway and you just have to ask why do it?" . Because you KNOW better than all the other European country's?. It's not paranoia, it's fake news Trump trump trump | |||
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"Bloody hell the paranoia is immense, no wonder we get stuff like trump and brexit!. They say the public get what the public deserve,I can confirm that today I am not paranoid, I am a realist, ID cards are inferior to passports for security, no better than a driving license and the reality is the various systems that are supposed to link up behind them can't be linked anyway, and biometrics just don't work... Add to that that 99% of the population don't ever need to prove identity except when a passport would be needed anyway and you just have to ask why do it?. Because you KNOW better than all the other European country's?. It's not paranoia, it's fake news Trump trump trump "Yeah, but why do we need ID cards in the first place? | |||
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"So if the debate come up again . Are u for or against national id cards?? Surely if they can monitor you on an id card you are being monitored on your passport. " well these days you are being monitored just about anywhere so whats one more in this now big brother society .we have cameras everywhere .your PC ,smartphones ,smart TVs ,even your smart meters give off facts all about you .there's nothing 100% sacred anymore.the genuine people here are under observation constantly.what amazes me though is the number of people in this country we know nothing about .fake passports are nothing to them so an I.d card won't stop them.don't kid yourself this is happening .I know a local pizza shop is a front for people trafficking | |||
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"Because you KNOW better than all the other European country's?. It's not paranoia, it's fake news Trump trump trump "What does the UK having another form of ID which won't do anything current ID does, but costs lots, have to do with the American President? European ID cards do not give access to the the USA, they need passports for that... so it's a pointless piece of plastic UNLESS it's an offence to be outside without it? Maybe start a process of transponder chips like we use for pets, injected at birtg, that may work... | |||
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"Bloody hell the paranoia is immense, no wonder we get stuff like trump and brexit!. They say the public get what the public deserve,I can confirm that today I am not paranoid, I am a realist, ID cards are inferior to passports for security, no better than a driving license and the reality is the various systems that are supposed to link up behind them can't be linked anyway, and biometrics just don't work... Add to that that 99% of the population don't ever need to prove identity except when a passport would be needed anyway and you just have to ask why do it?. Because you KNOW better than all the other European country's?. It's not paranoia, it's fake news Trump trump trump
Yeah, but why do we need ID cards in the first place?". Why does most of Europe use them if there so completely useless?. The other guy refused to answer | |||
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"Yeah, but why do we need ID cards in the first place?. Why does most of Europe use them if there so completely useless?. The other guy refused to answer" So what? We're leaving the EU last I heard. Why do we need them? | |||
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"Yeah, but why do we need ID cards in the first place?. Why does most of Europe use them if there so completely useless?. The other guy refused to answer So what? We're leaving the EU last I heard. Why do we need them? " . Read back through all my posts, I've tried to explain it several times but honestly this is just trumpisim. They'll cost a fortune, no they don't here they are in x y and z countries for relatively cheap costs. They don't stop anything, yes they do there's reams of data from the EU to show they work. That's why I gave up, nobody is listening, they believe what they believe and that's the end of it. The rest of the EU don't know shit I tell yer. I'd roll my eyes but what's the fucking point | |||
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"Oh yeah I forgot France Belgium Spain and Germany don't have passports like us does "Actually been checking in all countries talked about the ID cards do not replace passports or driving licenses. In Germany you need to have Either an ID card OR a passport, but don't have to have it on you. In either event you also need a driving license. In Belgium you must have an ID card as well as a driving license and passport. they are looking at making use of the ID card as a library card, and maybe requiring you to swipe in before you can post on a forum... ? does your phone have a built in card swipe to allow you to post here? Like I said before, pointless bit of plastic that is almost equivalent to the UK Validate Age card you can buy for £15 | |||
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"Oh yeah I forgot France Belgium Spain and Germany don't have passports like us does
Actually been checking in all countries talked about the ID cards do not replace passports or driving licenses.
In Germany you need to have Either an ID card OR a passport, but don't have to have it on you. In either event you also need a driving license.
In Belgium you must have an ID card as well as a driving license and passport. they are looking at making use of the ID card as a library card, and maybe requiring you to swipe in before you can post on a forum... ? does your phone have a built in card swipe to allow you to post here?
Like I said before, pointless bit of plastic that is almost equivalent to the UK Validate Age card you can buy for £15 ". Trump trump trump trump | |||
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"Yeah, but why do we need ID cards in the first place?. Why does most of Europe use them if there so completely useless?. The other guy refused to answer So what? We're leaving the EU last I heard. Why do we need them? . Read back through all my posts, I've tried to explain it several times but honestly this is just trumpisim. They'll cost a fortune, no they don't here they are in x y and z countries for relatively cheap costs. They don't stop anything, yes they do there's reams of data from the EU to show they work. That's why I gave up, nobody is listening, they believe what they believe and that's the end of it. The rest of the EU don't know shit I tell yer. I'd roll my eyes but what's the fucking point" So we're on the same page, ie, we don't need them? | |||
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"You need it to catch a bus and a train in Belgium as well if your entitled to discount!
What like the proof of age card, or buss pass in the UK? been on busses and trains in Belgium, no ID requested, could have been anyone...". Your not even reading what I'm writing.... IF YOU'RE ENTITLED TO DISCOUNT!. YOU WEREN'T, SO YOU DIDN'T NEED IT, IF I SHOUT LIKE THIS AND POINT MY LITTLE CHUBBY FINGERS AROUND WHILE SPORTING A STUPID HAIRCUT WILL IT SINK INTO YOUR DOGMA BETTER | |||
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Maybe we need some system for identifying threads...
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"Oh yeah I forgot France Belgium Spain and Germany don't have passports like us does "Actually been checking in all countries talked about the ID cards do not replace passports or driving licenses. In Germany you need to have Either an ID card OR a passport, but don't have to have it on you. In either event you also need a driving license. In Belgium you must have an ID card as well as a driving license and passport. they are looking at making use of the ID card as a library card, and maybe requiring you to swipe in before you can post on a forum... ? does your phone have a built in card swipe to allow you to post here? Like I said before, pointless bit of plastic that is almost equivalent to the UK Validate Age card you can buy for £15 | |||
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" trump paranoia trump paranoia trump paranoia trump, there out to get me paranoid trump trump trump trump" . | |||
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