FabSwingers.com forum: Our NHS......Pay more tax?

By *om_Hardly OP Man
over a year ago

Exeter

Hi everyone,

With more and more reports of the strains in our health service in the news who would be happy to pay more in tax or NI? So that our wonderful doctors and nurses are able to provide the best care for all of us and with our ever ageing population.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Id rather the government stopped sending the money to countries that don't need it first ...then and only then would I be happy to pay more in tax for the NHS ....most amazing thing this country has ..yet it's abused ,the staff are abused and over worked ...

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Id rather the government stopped sending the money to countries that don't need it first ...then and only then would I be happy to pay more in tax for the NHS ....most amazing thing this country has ..yet it's abused ,the staff are abused and over worked ..."

Errrmmm... It's staff from other countries who prop up the NHS

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

And why have politicians taken to calling it OUR NHS?

When did THE become OUR? When did they care that much about privitising it, or-organising it, chopping it up and gluing it back together?

When they finished fucking about with it?

Eff eff ess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Errrmmm... It's staff from other countries who prop up the NHS"

Erm read it again ...never mentioned where the staff were from ..I said for the government to stop sending money to countries that don't need it ...i did say it's abused ,the staff are abused and over worked did I not ?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 07/02/17 18:17:22]

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Errrmmm... It's staff from other countries who prop up the NHS

The NHS budget dwarfs that of international aid spending by a factor of 10 to 1. Or more.

And I think you'll find that many Indian, Kenyan or other doctors & nurses from countries we still give aid to keep the NHS running.

I've never abused any tho'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The time is coming where we need to weigh up what you would pay for medical insurance as most other countries in the world! And if a penny or two has to be added to every pound of tax I think it will be worth it....but I think you will find the older generation will agree as they will need it more then the younger....who will disagree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did I say you've abused any ?..wow you've asked a question would people pay more tax for the NHS ..answer is yes ...if the government stopped sending taxpayers money to countries that don't need it ....and that just so your aware is what a hell of a lot of working class people will tell you ...people that work 60 hours a week for a crap wage ,people that struggle week in week out but have self respect and pride and will do a job any job so long as they can go to work and hold their head up ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tell you something else ...I'm only walking excuse if the skill of Indian spinal surgeon ,the polish anethatist ....not once have I said I'm against immigrants of any race coming here and working ...but I am against sending taxpayers money to countries that don't need it .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tell you something else ...I'm only walking excuse if the skill of Indian spinal surgeon ,the polish anethatist ....not once have I said I'm against immigrants of any race coming here and working ...but I am against sending taxpayers money to countries that don't need it ....."

Walking because ...sorry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!! "

I think we all would agree with that...but if some was brought in with a life threatening condition....would you treat that person or turn him away knowing the chances are he would die?

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple
over a year ago

chingford

I'd rather amazon

Starbucks

Uber

Google

Started paying tax than me paying more tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The nhs cant cope when the eu workers have to leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We also like OP would but problem with any big organisation to top heavy with over pained management teams that are not needed for everyone of them would equal one or two extra on wards

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As i understand it NI contributions are due to go up anyway. If it could be guaranteed that the NHS actually gets all the revenue raised and it's not swallowed up and lost in amongst everything else then i'm ok with an increase.

Pay more NI or pay to go private - i don't see the difference, it's still money out of our pockets. I certainly don't want to see us go down the same route as Holland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!! "

There's that too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they need to re-evaluate how the NHS is managed and what's done under the NHS, (some) cosmetic surgery and IVF shouldn't fall to the taxpayer to pick up the bill in my humble opinion.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

My opinion as a nurse is : charge people for meals - if they were at home they would be paying for food: Do not routinely give simple analgesia to take home - paracetamol and ibuprofen are cheap over the counter : Do not provide free transport to appointments - if someone is in receipt if attendance allowance or DLA this is what these payments are for: charge the idiots whi go to A/E instead of their GP. I am sure I will be crucified now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simplicity itself ..fab

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"Hi everyone,

Why not just introduce a ring fenced new tax on unhealthy foods . Like crisps biscuits fuzzy drinks chocolate sweets cakes of lets say 2p a item and pass on the money to the nhs .

I think all.taxation should be raised when you spend not when you earn .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simple, if you have not paid into the NHS then piss off. Those who cannot work due to birth issues, injury or genuine sickness then you are entitled.

It pisses me off when lazy, pointless scroats who do not work because they are too f-ing lazy get free precriptions, dental treatment etc. I have to pay for these and already paying nearly £1000 per month in tax and NI.

Donald Trump would not stand for that shit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you are crucified, don't turn up at A&E expecting your hands and feet to be bandaged. Go to your GP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Simple, if you have not paid into the NHS then piss off. Those who cannot work due to birth issues, injury or genuine sickness then you are entitled.

Donald Trump would not stand for that shit. "

Trouble is how do you define between the genuine sick and the plain lazy? I know a number of people that have done pretty much f all with their lives because a life on benefits was just so much easier, but they are convincing someone that there is a genuine reason why they can't work.

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By *crumdiddlyumptiousMan
over a year ago

"Hi everyone,

Why not just introduce a ring fenced new tax on unhealthy foods . Like crisps biscuits fuzzy drinks chocolate sweets cakes of lets say 2p a item and pass on the money to the nhs .

I think all.taxation should be raised when you spend not when you earn ."

It always winds me up when add more tax to these type of foods/drinks are mentioned, You can eat what you like if you do it in moderation, Adding tax won't stop the over eaters

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By *imited 3EditionCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

"I'd rather amazon

Starbucks

Uber

Google

Started paying tax than me paying more tax. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you are crucified, don't turn up at A&E expecting your hands and feet to be bandaged. Go to your GP

Nooo chemist....GPS only have 10 minutes to see you...it would take nearly that time to open the bandages

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By *imited 3EditionCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

Speaking of tax...why are we taxed on what we earn AND taxed on what we buy? Shouldn't it be one or the other for those of us that work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure it's more funds necessarily but sort out the system better. Charge for missed appointments, that might make people attend.

Get a better strategy for bed blockers, might be cheaper to pay for a nursing home temporarily than keep people in hospital.

Why can't GPs work weekends on a shift basis so A & E isn't over run at the weekend?

And 111! They seem to send everyone to hospital so not sure if they help or hinder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It wouldn't matter how much is put into the NHS because people expect to get everything. So the more there is the more they will want!

I agree with my fellow health care professional, we should be looking at what could be paid for and how to discourage people from accessing the wrong services.

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By *ushtush300Couple
over a year ago

Southport

we need some humanity here we should care about r sick and elderly they have paid into system for years the real issue is that massive drug and private health companies are dying to get their hands on NHS and the greedy politicians are on their boards of directors with vested interest in privatising the NHS. We are being fed real bad stories about the NHS to make it more acceptable to privitisation and paying for services. Wake up the money is there if they want to invest, just needs a will and doesnt need extra taxation at the end of the day where does money actually come from IMF who are they oh yes us and a few other countries lol rant over

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was sat in the doctors waiting room just today (my first visit in over 12 months)

A woman came in (maybe 25) heavily pregnant. She wanted to see a doctor about a cough. As she wasn't from the area the receptionist asked her some routine stuff..

Do u work.. err no

Do u smoke... err yes

Do you use recreational drugs... well yea... but only if I get them for free...

Do you pay for prescriptions... NOPE

I'm sat here thinking... I pay thousands a year in tax and NI.. pay for prescriptions, dentists and glasses... all the while this lazy waster contributes nothing other than creating more mouths to feed.

There has to be another solution to the ones who contribute to contribute more.

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By *ildt123Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

We pay about £110b in NI the NHS costs about £143b so would need a big hike to cover it. Social care is the bigger problem, local councils are struggling to cope with cuts and increasing costs.

But the reality is the UK has fallen behind the rest of the developed world in terms of how much it spends on health care as a percentage of GDP we are 2% + behind most of Europe. Free for all at the point of access is still vital imho but it needs funding better and money allocated needs spending better.

A word of caution tho, systems based on insurance are usually for profit and you risk ending up like the US who spend much much more per head for some of the worst health outcomes in the west.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Errrmmm... It's staff from other countries who prop up the NHS

The NHS budget dwarfs that of international aid spending by a factor of 10 to 1. Or more.

And I think you'll find that many Indian, Kenyan or other doctors & nurses from countries we still give aid to keep the NHS running.

I've never abused any tho'

Yes and all those Kenyan, Indian Etc. doctors get paid for working in the NHS.

The freeloaders who come and abuse it pay fuck all and just add to the strain it is already under.

That is a non argument.

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

I'd happily pay more for the NHS, they do a great job for a fraction of the cost to you for what you'd have to pay for private medical insurance..

Our health service is the envy of the world but it could be so much better..

If we all payed just a little extra we would all benefit in the long run.

Better hospitals, more staff working decent hours which would lead to better moral, that in turn would bring more people into the industry and we wouldn't have to look abroad for staff because it would once again be a job to aspire to.

Many of us owe our own and the health of our loved ones to the dedicated staff of the Nhs, so why not give something back to them.

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By *imited 3EditionCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

"we need some humanity here we should care about r sick and elderly they have paid into system for years the real issue is that massive drug and private health companies are dying to get their hands on NHS and the greedy politicians are on their boards of directors with vested interest in privatising the NHS. We are being fed real bad stories about the NHS to make it more acceptable to privitisation and paying for services. Wake up the money is there if they want to invest, just needs a will and doesnt need extra taxation at the end of the day where does money actually come from IMF who are they oh yes us and a few other countries lol rant over"

Spot on!

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By *uckOfTheBayMan
over a year ago

Mold

Ok, some simple statistics:

Year Population

2016 65,111,143

2005 60,210,012

2000 58,867,004

1995 57,903,792

1990 57,110,117

1985 56,415,196

1980 56,221,513

1955 51,113,711

So this is the population of the UK for the last 60 or so years.

Between 1980 and 2000 we had a pretty much static population size, but in the last 16 years the population has grown by some 6.3 million people, nearly 9% increase, in a very short Leo's of time.

Is it really any wonder that we find ourselves in a situation where our services are under an ever increasing strain ?

This goes across education as well as social care provision, during a period that the economy suffered a major downturn

It's going to need an unprecedented amount of investment to try and resolve these issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not sure it's more funds necessarily but sort out the system better. Charge for missed appointments, that might make people attend.

Get a better strategy for bed blockers, might be cheaper to pay for a nursing home temporarily than keep people in hospital.

Why can't GPs work weekends on a shift basis so A & E isn't over run at the weekend?

And 111! They seem to send everyone to hospital so not sure if they help or hinder.

I think we would all agree on the missed appointments...as for the nursing home..that used to be done by your local council but the government has slashed the budget for that.

Lastly A+E cannot cope with it due to lack of beds and staff shortages...and they already work 24/7.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

All of this and....

Cut out the free health tourists who fly into Heathrow, Gatwick and other airports, and then turn up at the nearest A&E and get treated free of charge! In other countries, if Brits get ill, we get some treatment free (if in Europe) but everywhere else charges! What does "soft touch UK" do...welcomes them in!!!!

Cut out a lot of the management levels and return those revenues back into nursing personnel.

People who repeatedly miss appointments at GP's or at hospitals get three strikes or out; give their place to someone who needs it!

D*unks, fighting yobs etc who clog up A&E don't get treatment till they sober up and if that takes days, tough shit!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No I'd be happy if our taxes were used correctly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd rather amazon

Starbucks

Uber

Google

Started paying tax than me paying more tax. "

So do we all but they'll happily take their business elsewhere of we impose it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not sure it's more funds necessarily but sort out the system better. Charge for missed appointments, that might make people attend.

Get a better strategy for bed blockers, might be cheaper to pay for a nursing home temporarily than keep people in hospital.

Why can't GPs work weekends on a shift basis so A & E isn't over run at the weekend?

And 111! They seem to send everyone to hospital so not sure if they help or hinder.

I think we would all agree on the missed appointments...as for the nursing home..that used to be done by your local council but the government has slashed the budget for that.

Lastly A+E cannot cope with it due to lack of beds and staff shortages...and they already work 24/7.

I didn't mean A & E didn't work 24/7 but some people go there whereas they'd go to their GP if they were open on weekends. Some people just need reassurance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok, some simple statistics:

Year Population

2016 65,111,143

2005 60,210,012

2000 58,867,004

1995 57,903,792

1990 57,110,117

1985 56,415,196

1980 56,221,513

1955 51,113,711

So this is the population of the UK for the last 60 or so years.

Between 1980 and 2000 we had a pretty much static population size, but in the last 16 years the population has grown by some 6.3 million people, nearly 9% increase, in a very short Leo's of time.

Is it really any wonder that we find ourselves in a situation where our services are under an ever increasing strain ?

This goes across education as well as social care provision, during a period that the economy suffered a major downturn

It's going to need an unprecedented amount of investment to try and resolve these issues. "

Wtf!! You aren't allowed to use stats to back up your argument!! Apparently the vast majority of migrants have PhDs and only serve the NHS.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

Wow. It doesn't take much to get people to turn and blame the weakest, most vulnerable members of society. The people on benefits, the foreigners that get treated on the nhs, they take very little out of the nhs. The rich tax avoiders and evaders, the multinational companies that pay virtually nothing in tax and keep their workers on zero-hours contracts so that they have to rely on working tax credits - they are the drain on society. But they operate in a different world to the rest of us, counting their money while we swallow the media bullshit and blame immigrants and the unemployed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not sure it's more funds necessarily but sort out the system better. Charge for missed appointments, that might make people attend.

Get a better strategy for bed blockers, might be cheaper to pay for a nursing home temporarily than keep people in hospital.

Why can't GPs work weekends on a shift basis so A & E isn't over run at the weekend?

And 111! They seem to send everyone to hospital so not sure if they help or hinder.

I think we would all agree on the missed appointments...as for the nursing home..that used to be done by your local council but the government has slashed the budget for that.

Lastly A+E cannot cope with it due to lack of beds and staff shortages...and they already work 24/7.

I didn't mean A & E didn't work 24/7 but some people go there whereas they'd go to their GP if they were open on weekends. Some people just need reassurance. "

My bad...misread it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow. It doesn't take much to get people to turn and blame the weakest, most vulnerable members of society. The people on benefits, the foreigners that get treated on the nhs, they take very little out of the nhs. The rich tax avoiders and evaders, the multinational companies that pay virtually nothing in tax and keep their workers on zero-hours contracts so that they have to rely on working tax credits - they are the drain on society. But they operate in a different world to the rest of us, counting their money while we swallow the media bullshit and blame immigrants and the unemployed."

Very well put

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather they collected the taxes the corporations dodge, shut the loopholes they, and the rich use to pay less tax, stop privatising everything so the MPs and their chums can profit from them and generally created a fairer society. But we know that won't happen....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's where I get shot

I originally come from wythenshawe in Manchester ,it was the biggest council estate in Britain..yes it's home to wythenshawe hospital a hospital that's saved countless lives ..newsflash it's not Just migrant doctors and nurses that work there (oh the shock)..but what I will say is that it's over run as is the whole estate with people that do not want to work and will go there with a snotty nose ,people that believe the country they've done fuckall for owes them something ...that's a fact ..but it's not the only problem as stated above the population has blown up and the whole countries infrastructure cannot cope ..be it nhs ,homelessness ..drug addiction it all adds up

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I'd happy pay more tax contributions for our NHS... it's incredible to know it's just there if/when the time comes.

Our American chums really don't have that luxury - they still pay their taxes, but there is virtually zero public healthcare - the rates for the private system are obscene and full of middlemen making a lot of money... Profits before people.

I'd hate for the NHS to go that way, it's one of the few things that makes our country one to be envied.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Here's where I get shot

That is an unfortunate yet very interesting view.

But I'm not sure that the reason Wyythenshawe is an example of how not to indulge in urban planning or building society or re-skilling or attempting to meaningfully deal with the legacy of deindustrialisation.

But those people over *there* look a bit funny to me...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sure, I'd pay more tax for improvements across the board but I'd want to know it was used effectively and I don't believe it would be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We should pay more so that freeloaders from other countries can keep coming here to use our NHS for free?

I don't think so!

When we go abroad, we are required to pay for our health care if we need it - usually through our travel insurance.

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By *oretta and SebrinaCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Rubery

"I think they need to re-evaluate how the NHS is managed and what's done under the NHS, (some) cosmetic surgery and IVF shouldn't fall to the taxpayer to pick up the bill in my humble opinion."
So who would decide which people are a deserving case ? Should everyone who pays tax only subsidise their favourite groups ? Like, the fit refuse to pay to treat the obese? Non smokers refuse to treat smokers? Teetotal refuse to treat alcoholics? An impossible situation, and as most folk pay into it, they should all have an equal right to decide how the money is spent. Not ideal, I know, but fair I think.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Sure, I'd pay more tax for improvements across the board but I'd want to know it was used effectively and I don't believe it would be."

It's almost like the whole thing's a bit of a mess and needs a good shake up.

Thought about politics?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's where I get shot

That is an unfortunate yet very interesting view.

But those people over *there* look a bit funny to me...

Look funny ...deindustrialise an area with a working class population leads to high unemployment and a rise in crime and it's knock on effects ..so they get poorer ..education suffers because governments would rather fund a richer area because those areas get better ofstead reports ...so they get depressed and become a drain on society and cannot see a way out ....to live it and see it is different from reading about it or thinking you know about it from an ivory tower ...

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Here's where I get shot

That is an unfortunate yet very interesting view.

But those people over *there* look a bit funny to me...

You said the estate was 'overrun'

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple
over a year ago

chingford

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean...."

That's roughly 10,000 MRSI scans.

Not a drop in the ocean when you break it down to treatments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's where I get shot

That is an unfortunate yet very interesting view.

But those people over *there* look a bit funny to me...

You said the estate was 'overrun'"

Didn't say they looked funny

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why should we pay more tax just make the corporations pay what they owe and it would all be sound

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!! "

I agree with this. However that said if I was a dr and someone brought a really sick person/child in I wouldn't have it in me to turn them away.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Back to OP.

The biggest problem with the NHS is that you don't pay enough for it. It has always been done on the cheap.

In the UK NI is 9 or 10% (I've been away for a while and lost track of the exact figure) and that is supposed to include NHS unemployment and pension insurance.

In Germany basic health insurance is 14%, pension, unemployment, and even home care is extra.

On the other side of the coin waiting lists are unheard of. When I needed a minor operation last year, I went to to see my GP, got referred, and was in for the operation in less than two weeks, and they even apologised for the delay.

It is high time that politicians of all parties stopped using it as a political football and actually thought about what is best for the NHS rather than just trying to squeeze votes out of ti.

As for health tourism. It doesn't matter if they screw the NHS out of 10 billion or a tenner. It is wrong and should be seriously clamped down on.

Personally I would make proof of health insurance compulsory at immigration. If you haven't got it then you must buy it, there and then.

Would it be the cure for all ills? (pardon the pun) No, but it would be a bloody good start.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

That's roughly 10,000 MRSI scans.

Not a drop in the ocean when you break it down to treatments. "

the point i was making is that people make it out to be a super huge thing.... when it fact is is only 0.0005% of the total nhs england budget.....

if you want better ways to improve the nhs.... how about the government stop cutting down on places in teaching hospitals for a start....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS is funded through general taxation now a days not the old school national insurence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Back to OP.

The biggest problem with the NHS is that you don't pay enough for it. It has always been done on the cheap.

In the UK NI is 9 or 10% (I've been away for a while and lost track of the exact figure) and that is supposed to include NHS unemployment and pension insurance.

In Germany basic health insurance is 14%, pension, unemployment, and even home care is extra.

It is high time that politicians of all parties stopped using it as a political football and actually thought about what is best for the NHS rather than just trying to squeeze votes out of ti.

As for health tourism. It doesn't matter if they screw the NHS out of 10 billion or a tenner. It is wrong and should be seriously clamped down on.

Personally I would make proof of health insurance compulsory at immigration. If you haven't got it then you must buy it, there and then.

Would it be the cure for all ills? (pardon the pun) No, but it would be a bloody good start.

Totally agree

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean...."

If you believe that figure I must assume that you also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

I agree with this. However that said if I was a dr and someone brought a really sick person/child in I wouldn't have it in me to turn them away. "

they never turn away emergency cases... and what the government propose isn't changing that....

making non-eu people who come in have compulsary health insurance cover is a good start.... you need it for australia and america

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Closing tax loopholes that are exploited by the big corporations would help, as would cutting the overseas aid budget, and making health tourists pay too (yes, I know its not a magic bullet, but its a start), all of these would help.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple
over a year ago

chingford

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

That's roughly 10,000 MRSI scans.

Not a drop in the ocean when you break it down to treatments.

the point i was making is that people make it out to be a super huge thing.... when it fact is is only 0.0005% of the total nhs england budget.....

if you want better ways to improve the nhs.... how about the government stop cutting down on places in teaching hospitals for a start....

Maybe that 50 million would help fund more teaching places.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

Health tourism is a drop in the ocean - but it makes a good story and gives us all someone to blame. Most of the money lost on health tourism is due to ex-pats coming home to see their gp or get their varicose veins done. Its not Abdul sneaking in to have liposuction.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

And anyway, its not an nhs problem. Its cuts to social services that mean that there's no care available for patients at home once they're treated. They end up blocking beds in hospital or struggling at home and relapsing. The struggling nhs is just a symptom of society's big problems.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Health tourism is a drop in the ocean - but it makes a good story and gives us all someone to blame. Most of the money lost on health tourism is due to ex-pats coming home to see their gp or get their varicose veins done. Its not Abdul sneaking in to have liposuction."

Oh you mean those expats who paid in to the system for years. Yes they are the scum of the earth, how dare they use something that they have paid for?

Like it or not, it fucking well is "Abdul" sneaking in for his Mrs to have twins, triplets, or whatever on someone else's tab.

And they should fucking well pay IN FULL.

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient. "

Thatcher replaced matrons with managers for the sole purpose of running the NHS like a business. It clearly hasn't worked.

The public money *is* there, but the powers that be make the choice to *not* spend it on the things that actually matter to us. See also: bank bail outs.

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By *exysuzi and Mr.SCouple
over a year ago

CONISTON .Stoke Suburbia. Staffs. BARMOUTH. The Lakes (Monthly)

"And anyway, its not an nhs problem. Its cuts to social services that mean that there's no care available for patients at home once they're treated. They end up blocking beds in hospital or struggling at home and relapsing. The struggling nhs is just a symptom of society's big problems."

And for this very reason A&E treats boomerang patients. Along with an ageing population, nursing home and care home closures. Community hospital closures. Seasonal weather presentations. A&E departments are rarely out of red alert.

And who bears the brunt of all this ...... The nursing staff and doctors. Morale is at its lowest, stress related illness amongst staff is at its highest.

Anyway that's my twopeneth worth. Xxxxx Suzi

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean...."

£50 million is just the figure for non-emergency treatments. Some financial "experts" believe that the figure including emergency and urgent treatments is closer to £1.5 - £2 billion. Not such a drop in the ocean, if true.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

stop privatizing it and trying to kill it off by putting less into the kitty therefore cripperling the system

then blame it for everything to sell it off to private companys

so the mps can get rich by selling it to there cronies

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

Oh you mean those expats who paid in to the system for years. Yes they are the scum of the earth, how dare they use something that they have paid for?

Like it or not, it fucking well is "Abdul" sneaking in for his Mrs to have twins, triplets, or whatever on someone else's tab.

And they should fucking well pay IN FULL."

Expats usually have paid into the system all their working life and are entitled to their treatments, but the money spent on treating them is included in the reported figures - which is why you cant believe all you read. Abdul sneaking his mrs in to have twins is an exception - most pregnant women prefer to stay close to home to have their kids. Normal use of the nhs by foreigners doesn't add up to much. Emergency use by foreigners costs almost two billion, but that's partly reciprocated by treatment to Brits abroad when they end up in a&e - which is quite often if you watch sky one! Only £500million is recoverable by the nhs, but i dont think we can deny care to people in an emergency, wherever they're from.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

I'm sorry I don't understand this message.

"stop privatizing it and trying to kill it off by putting less into the kitty therefore cripperling the system

then blame it for everything to sell it off to private companys

so the mps can get rich by selling it to there cronies "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi everyone,

They might be wonderful in your part of England...but here they send you home confused with a 2" head wond a 3.8 cm blood clot on the brain and then deny all... So much for NHS...overpaid doctors and management, overworked nurses underpaid cleaners.. That's the real NHS... Cut the management levels and bingo you got enough money to pay nurses..who do the work not doctors who want to go home dead 7pm because they can....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient.

Thatcher replaced matrons with managers for the sole purpose of running the NHS like a business. It clearly hasn't worked.

The public money *is* there, but the powers that be make the choice to *not* spend it on the things that actually matter to us. See also: bank bail outs."

I work for the NHS and see money inefficiently used every single day. Clinical Commissioning Groups refuse to pay for their patients and huge debts get written off.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"Hi everyone,

Why not just introduce a ring fenced new tax on unhealthy foods . Like crisps biscuits fuzzy drinks chocolate sweets cakes of lets say 2p a item and pass on the money to the nhs .

I think all.taxation should be raised when you spend not when you earn .

It always winds me up when add more tax to these type of foods/drinks are mentioned, You can eat what you like if you do it in moderation, Adding tax won't stop the over eaters"

I don't think you get the point fella its not about stopping anyone eating ir drinking what they wan lt that's your own hang up clouding your judgement . its about raising more money for the nhs to treat all illness even diet related ones .

Jesus I eat unhealthy from time to time we all do but I'd rather be taxed on what I spend not what I earn as I originally stated .

My stance is no taxation at source only on what you spend your money on as the rich spend more money than the poor its a fairer tax system in the long run in my opinion .

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

I (Ali) don't have much experience with the NHS in terms of hospital admissions etc.

I do however have vast experience with the CCG/social care services (And I for one believe that the two must exist in unity) and their lack of provision for some of the most vulnerable young people in our communities (Mental health conditions). It's a time bomb waiting to explode....

#welcometo21centurybritain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians, so to speak. Too many managers, getting paid phenomenal wages, plus millions in bonuses. Bonuses for reaching set targets, which are achieved by frontline staff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi everyone,

I think we reduce our foreign aid budget and spend the money closer to home.

I think we bring professional management into the NHS and start to run it effectively. The levels of miss management within the NHS is astonishing.

For example, if they procured consumables centrally instead of locally and employed professional buyers they would save over a million pounds a year in loo roll alone. Now expand that example to everything the NHS buys.

I'm not suggesting we don't offer foreign aid, I'm suggesting we give aid where and when it's needed, not spending it randomly to hit a target.

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

I know NHS spending is different in Scotland but....

too many managers!!!

Stop trying to privatise it and offer 'choice'

Its a small thing but the taxpayer should nof routinely be funding ivf (apart from saviour siblings and 3parent children types)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry I haven't read the replies to the original post.

I work with someone who's partner is a nurse and they were telling me that she was at work last week to give out flu injections. Her surgery was fully booked and not one person turned up for their appointment and because the injections had to be prepared they all had to be destroyed.

Think in cases like this people should be charged.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

The whole structure of the NHS is wrong because there is no long term plan for the NHS.

There should be a 20 year plan that cannot be changed by any government coming to power and it should be run by an all party committee with a definite%of GDP guerenteed from the government,that of course higher than at present.No party politics involved,run by the people for the people.

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By *om_Hardly OP Man
over a year ago

Exeter

Some good debate on this subject and many points that I agree with myself. Having experienced outstanding care and professionalism when I needed it a few years ago I would be happy to pay a little more tax to secure a good standard of care for all. But it would need to be spent wisely and not wasted through mismanagement.Also it's a scandal how much the some companies are inflating the price of drugs in order to make huge profits from the NHS. The whole patient journey from GP, hospital and social care needs to be more integrated and joined up too. More investment needs to be made to provide alternative post hospital accommodation for the elderly and infirm so that they don't block beds, causing delays in trearment and much anguish for others with serious conditions.

In my opinion we really need a government that values our NHS and is willing to make decisions such as raising taxes to fund it properly.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

What the nhs is expected to do has changed immeasurably since it was founded. We have a hugely aging population needing lots of medical treatment, expensive treatments for different cancers etc etc. This all needs paying for. We cannot expect more and more treatments but the cost to remain the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They don't need to raise taxes. It is an insult when admin staff earn more than nurses so wages need looking at for a start.

Then the unbelievable waste of equipment that cannot be re used because the powers that be don't have a system in place.

Nursing staff paying several hundreds of pounds to park where they work?.Or having to pay for park and ride ,who wants to do that at the end of a nightmare shift.

The general public who arrive with no nightwear,toiletries etc etc.

Ambulance teams who have to throw away perfectly good fleeces which are single use only instead of blankets that can be washed.I can go on and on.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

"Not sure it's more funds necessarily but sort out the system better. Charge for missed appointments, that might make people attend.

Get a better strategy for bed blockers, might be cheaper to pay for a nursing home temporarily than keep people in hospital.

Why can't GPs work weekends on a shift basis so A & E isn't over run at the weekend?

And 111! They seem to send everyone to hospital so not sure if they help or hinder.

I think we would all agree on the missed appointments...as for the nursing home..that used to be done by your local council but the government has slashed the budget for that.

Lastly A+E cannot cope with it due to lack of beds and staff shortages...and they already work 24/7.

I didn't mean A & E didn't work 24/7 but some people go there whereas they'd go to their GP if they were open on weekends. Some people just need reassurance. "

We would if we could get an appointment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or take a short term hit and undo the massive privatisation that labour did with PFI schemes which cost the nhs 2 billion a year and currently amount to more than 80 billion worth of debt.

Near enough an extra 40 million a week will be a help (plus the reduced costs associated with them)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient.

Thatcher replaced matrons with managers for the sole purpose of running the NHS like a business. It clearly hasn't worked.

The public money *is* there, but the powers that be make the choice to *not* spend it on the things that actually matter to us. See also: bank bail outs."

Bank bail outs something that while irritating kept us out of a gret depression style event.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The government has been cutting NHS funding for 6 years in real terms, so no wonder it's not performing as well as it could have. I think we should pay more tax for it, to fund it properly.

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By *ral DMan
over a year ago

Leicestershire

The government needs to stop giving tax breaks to multinational companies and letting the uber rich off without paying tax. If they dont pay fuck off from the UK!!! If they took the tax from just 7 of the big companies who dont pay tax they would get the NHS out of debt and up and running at 100 percent within 3 months and thats just 7 out of the 1672 known companies that havent paid any tax!!! The whole country would have its deficit cleared in just 3 years if they were made to pay and thats not including people such as that Turd from take that Gary Barlow who doesnt pay tax, and all the other uber rich politicians, business owners, Lords, the royal family etc.

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By *3tro_AnnyaWoman
over a year ago

Walsall

[Removed by poster at 08/02/17 00:28:13]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

I agree with this. However that said if I was a dr and someone brought a really sick person/child in I wouldn't have it in me to turn them away. "

And you wouldn't be expected to, I'm a NHS nurse though I do community nursing now I have worked wards and A&E and everybody who goes in there is treat the same, nobody is turned away because of where they are from and the same respect is given to all, because, and I can speak for the vast majority of Junior Doctors and Nurses here, our job is to help people not judge them from here they are from or how long they have been on the dole

One question I always ask is if we was a country that had no NHS and your child had a life threatening illness or you was ill and without help you child would be left without a parent and some other county offered to help save your'e or your child's life would you turn the offer down because you had not paid into their health care system? If you answer to that is no I would do anything to save my child's life or make sure I was here to look after them you have no rights calling others for doing the same

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's pretty simple really. The NHS needs to be ran like a business. It's completely inefficient.

You can run something like a business without being profit driven.

Non profit organisations etc.

The idea is you reduce the terrible inefficiencies so you have more money available to do what your core goals are (treat patients)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/02/17 02:34:28]

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By *taryscorpCouple
over a year ago

boston

"The nhs cant cope when the eu workers have to leave."

What a lode of bull

EU workers will get a working permits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldn't agree with you more I think all your points should be followed then we could all help save the NHS.

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By *usthere4uMan
over a year ago

North East

Why nobody has enough balls to stop the bennefits for people who don"t deserve?.. how many lazy people stays at home refusing to work because "bennefits".. assure them all they need.. don"t get me wrong.. i am talking about those lazy arses who don"t need bennefits but are lazy to work...

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By *kin BohnerMan
over a year ago

derby

I think that before tax is raised to pump even more money into the black hole that is the NHS there should be a revue into how that money is spent. The money that is wasted through missmangment, money grab by private companies and that debacle of an idea PFI is criminal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why nobody has enough balls to stop the bennefits for people who don"t deserve?.. how many lazy people stays at home refusing to work because "bennefits".. assure them all they need.. don"t get me wrong.. i am talking about those lazy arses who don"t need bennefits but are lazy to work..."

Pragmatism.

Plus unless youre earning over 35k a year you're a net loss to the tax payer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You realise you've done exactly what you're acdusing others off and swallowed the bulshit about the "rich"

The top 1% of earners in the country pay 27% of the total income tax.

Thats 300,000 people pay over a quater of all income tax.

Where as 43% of working age adults pay nearly no income tax at all.

So you blame the 1 percent who pay over a quater of the bill.

But not the nearly 50% who pay nothing but take a fortune?

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

You realise you've done exactly what you're acdusing others off and swallowed the bulshit about the "rich"

The top 1% of earners in the country pay 27% of the total income tax.

Thats 300,000 people pay over a quater of all income tax.

Where as 43% of working age adults pay nearly no income tax at all.

So you blame the 1 percent who pay over a quater of the bill.

But not the nearly 50% who pay nothing but take a fortune?

Your figures just show demonstrate how unfair the balance of wealth is in the country! A recent study by the equity trust showed that The poorest 10% of households pay eight percentage points more of their income in all taxes than the richest 10% - 43% compared to 35%.

So, the rich are contributing less of their income.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We also like OP would but problem with any big organisation to top heavy with over pained management teams that are not needed for everyone of them would equal one or two extra on wards "

This is fundamentally the flaw across most public sector work places in the UK which Government doesnt want to deal with. Just to put things in perspective, official figures from 2015 show here in NI 63% of the work force are administrative. I can't recall the % earned , but what shocked me that it was obvious it wasn't sustainable.

Too many in management, too much spent on management. It can only collapse. The problem isn't so much when, its that it won't be prevented because it's just being patched over from management in the wrong places for too long..... it's no longer patches that are required .....It's a rebuild from foundation up. It's an excuse by management that the problem is were all living too long. No its not the problem. If that is the problem answer these two questions.

1. Why has this a strain on NHS as apparently were generally healthier.

2.Healthier longer living people also are longer working people = more taxes into the system.

It's the mismanagement of funding that has led the NHS in the crisis it's in now. Consultants using all the NHS facilities and time for their own pockets and not enough given back into the system. (Why don't they go private bad not feed off tell NHS resources = because they wouldn't make enough money for themselves)

I'm going to stick my neck out and say privatisation of crucial vital services was the worst thing that ever happened. Water, electricity, NHS (lots of it are partial privately run), transport.

( Just to put my last statement into context, I've family who are in management in water authorities NHS and transport who are saying same thing)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You realise you've done exactly what you're acdusing others off and swallowed the bulshit about the "rich"

The top 1% of earners in the country pay 27% of the total income tax.

Thats 300,000 people pay over a quater of all income tax.

Where as 43% of working age adults pay nearly no income tax at all.

So you blame the 1 percent who pay over a quater of the bill.

But not the nearly 50% who pay nothing but take a fortune?

So, the rich are contributing less of their income. "

Tax avoidance which is a legal way of not paying what generally would have been accepted tax because of many new laws me and billions are not put into the system.....and the biggest portion of that comes from the richest people and corporates)

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Does it have to be an argument between one solution and another?

Why not get companies paying acceptable tax, AND get people off benefits and into work AND cut waste in the nhs AND make visitors pay. Then we can decide if higher taxation is still needed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does it have to be an argument between one solution and another?

Why not get companies paying acceptable tax, AND get people off benefits and into work AND cut waste in the nhs AND make visitors pay. Then we can decide if higher taxation is still needed."

It certainly doesn't. ... However I think you just picked out one point in my reply.

I think it's a multitude of reasons...but mainly mismanagement of funds and lack of funds coming in.

Making visitors pay is morally wrong in my opinion. Prey of those who have little choice to pay...use the emotional blackmail on people is wrong. Visitors help the moral and wellbeing of patients, they also bring funds in through coffee shops and vending machines.

Most of the car parks are managed by private agencies and only a small % goes to the hospitals now. At the onset they got more but these agencies are profit making too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You realise you've done exactly what you're acdusing others off and swallowed the bulshit about the "rich"

The top 1% of earners in the country pay 27% of the total income tax.

Thats 300,000 people pay over a quater of all income tax.

Where as 43% of working age adults pay nearly no income tax at all.

So you blame the 1 percent who pay over a quater of the bill.

But not the nearly 50% who pay nothing but take a fortune?

So, the rich are contributing less of their income. "

Well while we have the incredibly regressive VAT system that will always be the way.

Vat always skews % of i come figures for low earners take out VAT though and nesrly 50% of the population doesnt pay tax...

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By *elnkazCouple
over a year ago

cheshire

"My opinion as a nurse is : charge people for meals - if they were at home they would be paying for food: Do not routinely give simple analgesia to take home - paracetamol and ibuprofen are cheap over the counter : Do not provide free transport to appointments - if someone is in receipt if attendance allowance or DLA this is what these payments are for: charge the idiots whi go to A/E instead of their GP. I am sure I will be crucified now."
I also think that people that dont turn up for appts should be charged.just as in the dentists.I have sat in many a clinic waiting fir pts to turn up that havent even had the sense to ring and cancel .....kaz

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Does it have to be an argument between one solution and another?

Why not get companies paying acceptable tax, AND get people off benefits and into work AND cut waste in the nhs AND make visitors pay. Then we can decide if higher taxation is still needed.

It certainly doesn't. ... However I think you just picked out one point in my reply.

I think it's a multitude of reasons...but mainly mismanagement of funds and lack of funds coming in.

Most of the car parks are managed by private agencies and only a small % goes to the hospitals now. At the onset they got more but these agencies are profit making too."

It wasn't a go at you, just the general argument about doing one thing or the other.

However, making visitors pay for non-emergency treatment isn't morally wrong. The NHS and country has finite resources. By treating one person there is less to treat someone else. Sorry, but a tourist from another country can't come for a free hip replacement IMO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's also a massive misconception about the "1%". I was watching an interview with a guest who was saying that the top should pay the majority of their wealth in taxes. The host rebutted fantastically with some quick stats. If you took every penny from the top 1% in the US, it wouldn't be enough to even pay of the net US student debt; the entire Californian economy could barely pay it back. The notion that if only the rich would give more taxes and all would be in a new Messianic age is total rubbish.

The system is breaking and people can't accept hard reality concerning demand and supply.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does it have to be an argument between one solution and another?

Why not get companies paying acceptable tax, AND get people off benefits and into work AND cut waste in the nhs AND make visitors pay. Then we can decide if higher taxation is still needed.

It certainly doesn't. ... However I think you just picked out one point in my reply.

I think it's a multitude of reasons...but mainly mismanagement of funds and lack of funds coming in.

Most of the car parks are managed by private agencies and only a small % goes to the hospitals now. At the onset they got more but these agencies are profit making too.

It wasn't a go at you, just the general argument about doing one thing or the other.

I didn't take it at having a go at me or anyone...

Most visitors are just that...not patients. ..but visiting patients. I agree about the tourist thing too. Insurance coveing health care for visitors should be mandatory before allowing to enter.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

according to the latest credit suisse global wealth report, the richest 1% own 48% of global wealth. Wether that's enough to pay californias student debt is another matter, but it just goes to show how unfairly wealth is distributed.

A previous poster said that almost 50% of uk population pays now tax, well he actually said that 43% pay little or no tax. Does that not simply indicate that 43% of the population earns too little to actually live on? Noones saying that if the rich paid their fair share the worlds problems would be solved. But, surely, it would go some way and be a bit fairer on the rest of us. For too long governments have been cutting back on benefits and blaming the scroungers, when, in actual fact, they make little difference. And anyway, what do they spend their benefits on? Fags and booze - two very taxable commodities - they're keeping the economy going!!

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit. "

Wealth isn't distributed though, it's either earnt or inherited.

Frequently inherited from someone who earnt it.

Two pence spent.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

I didn't take it at having a go at me or anyone...

Most visitors are just that...not patients. ..but visiting patients. I agree about the tourist thing too. Insurance coveing health care for visitors should be mandatory before allowing to enter. "

Mix up in wording, I meant visitors to the country, not someone visiting a sick patient! OK, makes sense now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

I think we all would agree with that...but if some was brought in with a life threatening condition....would you treat that person or turn him away knowing the chances are he would die?"

Think of all the humans that die because none of us pay taxes in China? Or Spain? Or Italy?...

It's out of sight out of mind. We pay taxes not to be a charity but to help the people of our country. As soon as we're running a profitable country we should start giving out healthcare to others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi everyone,

Don't you think we pay enough tax on our salaries and in what we buy, imo the NHS needs a massive overhaul and restructure, any other private company would of done that years ago, we need a more flexible NHS that suits the changing lifestyle and working habits. Definitely should charge non U.K. Nhs users, and NHS need to concentrate on proper medical issues and not a fat person that wants a tummy tuck or a boob job etc I'm sure there's bigger priorities and when trusts are using agency nurses etc that charge £100s per hour your not going to get support for a tax increase to fund poorly managed trusts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit. "

You are a net loss to the country if you earn less than 35k

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit. "

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course if you want ro do the top 1% by wealth not income thats a cut off of about

£615,000

So if youre about 40 own your house and have a reasonable pension pot once again you're the 1%.

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

Also, i dont know where youre getting your figures from, but to be in the top 1%, you have to have a wealth of £688,000.....or have a salary of about £258,000...I dont qualify on either front. I do pay my fair share of tax - in fact, I'm overpaying at the moment - although I'm waiting for a rebate!

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One amazing fact about the ''immigration is the saviour of an aging population'' argument is that immigrants get old too and you need to import more and more and more immigrants to support the now elderly recent waves.

lt's a pyramid scheme and illegal in business so why would you do it for your society? Because cultcha innit!

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By *ddit...Man
over a year ago

Land of the giants... ;-)

It's either pay more tax or privatize. .. the government haven't got the bollocks to tell us the truth.. I would pay an extra 1 or 2% to know that my family are safe...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess."

Not even close with the salary there you're a decimal point of 25.8k

600k wealth is a house and a reasonable pension pot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess.

Not even close with the salary there you're a decimal point of 25.8k

600k wealth is a house and a reasonable pension pot.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

So if you're not in the 1% and you live in the uk you have effectivly never paid tax.

Least not more than you've recived back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Errrmmm... It's staff from other countries who prop up the NHS

This is exactly the problems thesedays. Looking inward and not out.

Google the good countries index and check out the Ted talk.The me me me way the UK is going will be your demise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Speaking of tax...why are we taxed on what we earn AND taxed on what we buy? Shouldn't it be one or the other for those of us that work? "

Agreed... Or the biggest insult of all is property tax.

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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago

secret town

I work for the NHS

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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago

secret town

"Simple, if you have not paid into the NHS then piss off. Those who cannot work due to birth issues, injury or genuine sickness then you are entitled.

Donald Trump would not stand for that shit. "

I like Trump!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I work for the NHS "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean...."

Excelkent, what was someone above saying about statistics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

Excelkent, what was someone above saying about statistics

Its actually about 1.8 billion less the 500 reclaimable.

Total budget for england abour 100 billion so

1.3% of the total spend.

Thats not insignificant.

But the absolute biggest saving would be simply getting diabetics to manage thier conditions.

Cost of conplications for diabetes exceeds 10 billipn a year

.so 10% of the budget is wasted on avoidable side effects ( that then have wider economics inpacts as the people are often left disabled).

But how do you get people to change when the risk of being blind, having limbs amputated or dying doesnt convince them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's also a massive misconception about the "1%". I was watching an interview with a guest who was saying that the top should pay the majority of their wealth in taxes. The host rebutted fantastically with some quick stats. If you took every penny from the top 1% in the US, it wouldn't be enough to even pay of the net US student debt; the entire Californian economy could barely pay it back. The notion that if only the rich would give more taxes and all would be in a new Messianic age is total rubbish.

The system is breaking and people can't accept hard reality concerning demand and supply. "

Or the world is changing and nationalistic ideals no longer work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The system is breaking and people can't accept hard reality concerning demand and supply.

Or the world is changing and nationalistic ideals no longer work? "

Britqin never changed much until we allowed it. Just look at the population rise of the last decade and compare it to the whole 20th century. We allowed that so it's not a part of nature like the wind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

Excelkent, what was someone above saying about statistics

Its actually about 1.8 billion less the 500 reclaimable.

Total budget for england abour 100 billion so

1.3% of the total spend.

Thats not insignificant.

But the absolute biggest saving would be simply getting diabetics to manage thier conditions.

Cost of conplications for diabetes exceeds 10 billipn a year

.so 10% of the budget is wasted on avoidable side effects ( that then have wider economics inpacts as the people are often left disabled).

But how do you get people to change when the risk of being blind, having limbs amputated or dying doesnt convince them?"

Being utopian for a minute

Don't get them hooked on sugar in the first place and don't chain them to sedentary jobs

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess.

Not even close with the salary there you're a decimal point of 25.8k

600k wealth is a house and a reasonable pension pot.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

So if you're not in the 1% and you live in the uk you have effectivly never paid tax.

Least not more than you've recived back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html"

Now youre properly confusing me. In uk terms, the top 1% of earners get paid about £258,000. Or have wealth of £688,000 (Is that per person? I dont know many people who independently own a house outright with such a pension pot). In global terms, an average uk salary may put you in the top 1% of earners - which would include me - because of the millions of people living in poverty throughout the world. I think you've mashed the global figure for salary with the uk figure for wealth.

So, if most earners in the UK are in the global 1%, and its the uk rich that pay 8% points less of their income than the uk poor.....the uk rich must be paying even less tax than I thought they were!! The bastardy bastards! Now, I'm boring myself. I cant believe ive managed to keep talking shite for so long.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest problem is the government and how they have sold off the buildings and renovation rights to private investors and the contracts which the NHS have to abide by within these sales.

It is near on impossible to for them to pay the interest on the buildings and renovations but are tied onto 50 year contracts.

All so the Tory's can say.... told you it wasn't working privatise the lot.

Scumbags.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe if they stopped treating people for free who are not entitled to it, there maybe more money for those of us who are!!

love hearing this arguement.....

problem is you are only talking about 50 million pounds in an overall nhs england budget of 100 billion.....

its a drop in the ocean....

Excelkent, what was someone above saying about statistics

Its actually about 1.8 billion less the 500 reclaimable.

Total budget for england abour 100 billion so

1.3% of the total spend.

Thats not insignificant.

But the absolute biggest saving would be simply getting diabetics to manage thier conditions.

Cost of conplications for diabetes exceeds 10 billipn a year

.so 10% of the budget is wasted on avoidable side effects ( that then have wider economics inpacts as the people are often left disabled).

But how do you get people to change when the risk of being blind, having limbs amputated or dying doesnt convince them?

Being utopian for a minute

Don't get them hooked on sugar in the first place and don't chain them to sedentary jobs "

Surely being utopian would be have some self control and excercise?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The biggest problem is the government and how they have sold off the buildings and renovation rights to private investors and the contracts which the NHS have to abide by within these sales.

It is near on impossible to for them to pay the interest on the buildings and renovations but are tied onto 50 year contracts.

All so the Tory's can say.... told you it wasn't working privatise the lot.

Scumbags. "

You do realise that the scheme youre talkin about (PFI) wad a labour initiative not a tory one?

The tories scrapped it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess.

Not even close with the salary there you're a decimal point of 25.8k

600k wealth is a house and a reasonable pension pot.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

So if you're not in the 1% and you live in the uk you have effectivly never paid tax.

Least not more than you've recived back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html

You referenced global figures not the uk ones when saying they owned 50% of the worlds money.

You statistics of the poor paying more of thier wage as a percentage id also ignoring the fact rhat those poor are net recipient's of around 10k of benifits/tax relief/services a year.

While those moderatley high earners who acruslly contribute are paying an extra 20-30k above what they receive in releif and services.

So no the poor are nott giving anything in tax they're receiving

You cannot just keep taking from those who work and produce and give to others more and more.

"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

Adrian Rogers"

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By *andorasSecretCouple
over a year ago

Nr Birmingham

"Statistics can be used to justify all arguments. So I'm going to use some to justify my own

Austerity hits the poor hardest, social services are cut and the nhs goes to shit.

Oh and errr heres the kicker.

Do you actualy know what the 1% is?

Cause the threshold to be the 1% is about £27k a year income.

So just above average wage.

So ask yourself are you the 1%

If so why the hell arent you paying more tax?

Errrr....im not quite sure what your argument is.

I dont have an accountant finding tax dodges or an off shore account in panama. Ive worked on the frontline in the nhs - ive witnessed life begin and end in a horrible bloody mess.

Not even close with the salary there you're a decimal point of 25.8k

600k wealth is a house and a reasonable pension pot.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

So if you're not in the 1% and you live in the uk you have effectivly never paid tax.

Least not more than you've recived back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html

You referenced global figures not the uk ones when saying they owned 50% of the worlds money.

You statistics of the poor paying more of thier wage as a percentage id also ignoring the fact rhat those poor are net recipient's of around 10k of benifits/tax relief/services a year.

While those moderatley high earners who acruslly contribute are paying an extra 20-30k above what they receive in releif and services.

So no the poor are nott giving anything in tax they're receiving

You cannot just keep taking from those who work and produce and give to others more and more.

Adrian Rogers"

Adrian Rogers is a c*nt.

He is patronising and arrogant. He is also totally out of touch if he thinks he can categorise people so superficially. Thankfully, contrary to the propaganda propagated by most of the media, very few right-thinking people on benefits are happy with their situation. I wasn't going to say anything more on this, but I find such views dangerous and offensive.

"A society will be judged by how it treats its weakest citizens." Harold S Truman

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Amen sister it's all deflection..

Also originally Maggie was in talks with chamelot about the profit percentage paying into the NHS, it was her successor Major that put it to good causes... much used to pay wealthy estate owners to keep their family jewels instead of auctioning them off to overseas buyers... basically a voluntary tax for the poor..it could be you!

Ps new law overseas health tourists are now being asked to pay their bills first...

And lastly we have an aging population the biggest part of the welfare bill is in OAPs, just as well private pensions are being made mandatory as there will be no state pension ...

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By *tephanjMan
over a year ago

Kettering

I have many views on our NHS but I would be more than happy to pay extra. My main concern at present is its not only our ageing population causing problems its just as much the thousands of migrants. We were told that with brexit this would go down but I'm doubting that will happen

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Hi everyone,

Yes, that is the obvious answer

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I have many views on our NHS but I would be more than happy to pay extra. My main concern at present is its not only our ageing population causing problems its just as much the thousands of migrants. We were told that with brexit this would go down but I'm doubting that will happen "

Migrants give more to the economy in terms of tax than they take out. Also, the general profile of migrants in this country is young, ie less likely to need the NHS.

You can stop reading The Mail. It'll bring your blood pressure down

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Migrants give more to the economy in terms of tax than they take out. Also, the general profile of migrants in this country is young, ie less likely to need the NHS.

You can stop reading The Mail. It'll bring your blood pressure down

Oh, and they'll be the ones wiping your bottom in your dotage, so be kind, ok?

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By *tephanjMan
over a year ago

Kettering

Migrants give more to the economy in terms of tax than they take out. Also, the general profile of migrants in this country is young, ie less likely to need the NHS.

You can stop reading The Mail. It'll bring your blood pressure down

Oh, and they'll be the ones wiping your bottom in your dotage, so be kind, ok?

"
. I don't read the mail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Migrants give more to the economy in terms of tax than they take out. Also, the general profile of migrants in this country is young, ie less likely to need the NHS.

You can stop reading The Mail. It'll bring your blood pressure down

This statistic only works for tempoary immigrants specifically EU ones.

It does not work for ones who remain and have children

namely because the cost savings are they did not need to be educated or receive retirement benefits

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Migrants give more to the economy in terms of tax than they take out. Also, the general profile of migrants in this country is young, ie less likely to need the NHS.

You can stop reading The Mail. It'll bring your blood pressure down

This statistic only works for tempoary immigrants specifically EU ones.

It does not work for ones who remain and have children

namely because the cost savings are they did not need to be educated or receive retirement benefits "

Migrants are a net benefit to the UK economy. Period

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldn't have put it better myself

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