FabSwingers.com forum: Assisted Suicide - Sorry do not read if it disturbs you.

By *oxy_minx OP Woman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

Tonights programme, yes it had me in tears, but would you want the choice if it was you? And if so, would you want to travel to another country rather than your own home?

I personally think it should be legalised or is that just me xx

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Yes only with my families full consent.

And legally and medically sanctioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ditto.

Its a difficult road to travel .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it should be legalised too. And no I wouldn't want to have to travel to another country. My Uncle passed away a few years ago of natural causes and everyone was round his bed side and said their last goodbyes. If you're in another country, it's unlikely that family will be there to say their goodbyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tonights programme, yes it had me in tears, but would you want the choice if it was you? And if so, would you want to travel to another country rather than your own home?

I personally think it should be legalised or is that just me xx"

I didn't see the program, i can understand peoples reasons for wanting it legalised, but i think it is open to too much abuse so no i don't think it should be legalised.

kat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with euthansia is that when a person is still compus mentus they can make the decision that their life should end at a given point in the future (when pain levels reach unsustainable proportions for example), but there also comes a point where they are not able to communicate their wishes and they may have changed their mind about it.

To me life is sacrosanct and the whole idea of mercy killing goes against everything I believe in. Doctors take an oath when they qualify to protect life above all else. How can a doctor remain true to that oath if he/she assists someone to die.

It's a can of worms I know, but that's my take on it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I see it and others may see it differently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with euthansia is that when a person is still compus mentus they can make the decision that their life should end at a given point in the future (when pain levels reach unsustainable proportions for example), but there also comes a point where they are not able to communicate their wishes and they may have changed their mind about it.

It's a can of worms I know, but that's my take on it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I see it and others may see it differently."

I get where you are coming from, but then surely every doctor that does an abortion is killing?

I think it is a very grey area, but abortions are legal, so i dont see why this cant be made legal too.

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By *oxy_minx OP Woman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Tonights programme, yes it had me in tears, but would you want the choice if it was you? And if so, would you want to travel to another country rather than your own home?

I personally think it should be legalised or is that just me xx

I didn't see the program, i can understand peoples reasons for wanting it legalised, but i think it is open to too much abuse so no i don't think it should be legalised.

kat"

But, that should be the minimum? Yes I understand, but if you are forced to go overseas, is that not putting more pressure on you over and above?

And yes this is a conversation I have had with my mum x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To me life is sacrosanct and the whole idea of mercy killing goes against everything I believe in. Doctors take an oath when they qualify to protect life above all else. How can a doctor remain true to that oath if he/she assists someone to die.

But doctors help patients to die all the time. The problem is when the urge to make them live at any cost is not in the patient's longterm interests.

I helped my father die and while I will never ever regret what happened, I have to say that the after effects of making that decision weighed extremely heavily. That's why enabled suicide is a much better option- enabling the patient to take the potion or whatever, when they decide, not when the family/medical profession chose to offer it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tonights programme, yes it had me in tears, but would you want the choice if it was you? And if so, would you want to travel to another country rather than your own home?

I personally think it should be legalised or is that just me xx

I didn't see the program, i can understand peoples reasons for wanting it legalised, but i think it is open to too much abuse so no i don't think it should be legalised.

kat

But, that should be the minimum? Yes I understand, but if you are forced to go overseas, is that not putting more pressure on you over and above?

And yes this is a conversation I have had with my mum x"

I always said that when the time comes and someone has to wipe my ass, then its time im gone....

Yet i worked with folk doing personal care etc and they were living good lives, enjoying their days and families etc.

Ok, so they needed a little help...

It did change my _iew big time.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

I believe in "living wills", ie what to do in certain circumstances, which would require "legally assisted suicide" when the time comes.

With the way society is deteriorating, another 30 years of a decent life will be more than enough.

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By *adcowWoman
over a year ago

kirkcaldy

It's a can of worms I know, but that's my take on it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I see it and others may see it differently."

in a way the doctors do it by stopping active treatment in some cases - when a patient has medicines , food via ng tube, fluids via IV with held as seen as prolonging a life without any quality in it.

having worked in healthcare for nearly 16 yr i often seen people suffer so much that if they had been an animal they would have been put to sleep long before that stage in their lives. i often heard other staff say if they got to that stage they would want given the option to end it - myself included.

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

I've had to watch two family members, 'live' through an awful disease, where both have finished up trapped in their bodies and I will have to go through it again with a third.

All I can say is, if it was me in that position would I want someone to have to perform the most personal tasks for me?

My answer would be no

Will I perform the same for my loved one, yes. If they asked me to help end their life, yes I would and would bear the consequences.

To watch someone you care for degenerate into a vegetable is horrendous and I would not wish it on my worst enemy

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By *oxy_minx OP Woman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

But doctors help patients to die all the time. The problem is when the urge to make them live at any cost is not in the patient's longterm interests.

Thank you Jamme

Yes I have a parent who has made me make a promise, as they have worked in ederly homes all their lives, so what do I do if they do not make the changes in law in this country?

Make their wish or go to jail???

I don't know xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I get where you are coming from, but then surely every doctor that does an abortion is killing?

I think it is a very grey area, but abortions are legal, so i dont see why this cant be made legal too."

Like I said, it's a can of worms. I don't support abortion either, unless in extreme circumstances where the mother's life would end were she to try and give birth. Even then I think there should be irrefutable evidence that that would be the outcome, and even that isn't an exact science.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

On the whole, the vast vast majority of doctors do continue to administer treatment and drugs long after they would wish to cease such treatment, full in the knowledge that it doesnt add to the quality of life.

With the unaffordability of the NHS ( and healthcare in general ), the worlds overpopulation and use of increasingly scarce resources perhaps its time for society, people, to reassess priorities?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it is a human right to die by your own hand (not exact words)

I watched this show and I found it hard going, before this and still after this, I personally would chose assisted suicide.

If i develop terminal cancer, or any other terminal condition, I would be straight off to these clinics, reasons being is that those I leave behind, I want to remember me in my prime condition etc, not whithered and torn apart by whatever condition,

I also could not put family friends through watching me deteriorate into whatever condition I would die in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"it is a human right to die by your own hand (not exact words)

I watched this show and I found it hard going, before this and still after this, I personally would chose assisted suicide.

I also could not put family friends through watching me deteriorate into whatever condition I would die in"

MR Naughty

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By *acktilMan
over a year ago

Tewkesbury

Please god if ever I should become that injured or sick to be vegative, someone pull the plug and put me out of my misery.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"I get where you are coming from, but then surely every doctor that does an abortion is killing?

I think it is a very grey area, but abortions are legal, so i dont see why this cant be made legal too.

I have to say I think every woman has a choice to end a pregency... However I know 2 friends that have had an abortion and they have never been able to forgive themselves for it but at the time it was the right thing to do...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a can of worms I know, but that's my take on it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I see it and others may see it differently."

I could have written this as my _iews too.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

i have stated on another thread something simular to this one, and i personally agree that people when they are in sound mind that it should be allowed on medical records if they get to a certain state that they be allowed to die with dignity. to watch someone close to you die without any dignity left is awful. if it was a pet we would have it put down and no questions asked. i know there isnt a right or wrong answers to this only personal beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I get where you are coming from, but then surely every doctor that does an abortion is killing?

I think it is a very grey area, but abortions are legal, so i dont see why this cant be made legal too.

I understand that fully, really I do. There are so many factors at play in whether termination of a pregnancy or a living person is right or wrong.

From my perspective as a man, many years ago a girlfriend had a termination and I had no rights whatsoever to prevent her, yet that was my child too. I felt it was my duty as it's father to protect my child as much as could but it was all to no avail, and that experience formulated my _iew on abortion in general.

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

make it legal.... if you have a termimal illness and you know there is no cure then dont prolong the agon after all you dont let animals suffer so why should a human

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"I get where you are coming from, but then surely every doctor that does an abortion is killing?

I think it is a very grey area, but abortions are legal, so i dont see why this cant be made legal too.

I understand that fully, really I do. There are so many factors at play in whether termination of a pregnancy or a living person is right or wrong.

I agree to an extent not that I go into much personal stuff on the forum. The guy I got pregnant by buggered off.. Yes I was considering every avenue but the avenue that was chosen was losing the baby. It was not the right time and the thought of being a single parent scared the living shit out of me..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"make it legal.... if you have a termimal illness and you know there is no cure then dont prolong the agon after all you dont let animals suffer so why should a human"

My dear sister had a terminal illness which she fought daily and for 10 years, always hoping the treatment she had would work, another year, six months...

Ive never known anyone fight so bloody hard to stay alive.yet she lost but none of us would have had it any other way.

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

As a society we show far more compassion towards our animals. I do understand that the reason for this is the law to protect vunerable people but think it is a topic worthy of discussion at the highest level.

Prolonging life when the quality no longer exists seems to me to be so very wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is real tough one. I think personally that I would fight for every breath but that's easy for me to say as I'm in good health. Until you wear the shoes of those in 'that' situation it is hard to form a considered opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The thing is....Everyone suffering always has hope and without that hope that things will get better then they have nothing left.

It has to be about choice and as long as we are of sound mind , we all should have that choice .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes i believe in assisted suicide, however its got the point where we cannot decide who is actually mentally competent for example those who have a depressive illness may decide they are in more pain than humanly possible, we cannot judge anyones pain threshhold until we know more about the human brain, and as everybodies perceptions on what reality is can be blurred into whats sane and whats insane.

For illnesses such as physical ones, we have to remember with advance of medical science,science in general....our lives may be vastly different in 10-20 years, with things such as cybernetic implants/nanotechnology/genetic research, therefore we may have cures to some of the issues that we currently face...there is hope , but to simply give up might be indeed the wrong choice.

For people who are basically diagnosed as having not long to live the case may be different...but do doctors always get it right? no they dont, but they do get it right most of the time i'd say.

a very difficult subject the right to die with what is believed to be a dignified death, however i believe our religious morals(the majority)maintain control that suicide is a path to hell...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But doctors help patients to die all the time. The problem is when the urge to make them live at any cost is not in the patient's longterm interests.

My father died last year, having suffered with dementia and Parkinsons. Without going into the gory details, he basically got into a cycle of infections, each time it was treated and 'cured', just for another one to strike.

My brothers and I discussed it and we had a meeting with his consultant and impressed on him our wish that the treatments should cease. Much of our thinking was based on the fact that if our father had been aware of his condition/state, he'd have been at the very least horrified.

The consultant thanked us and said he appreciated the meeting, and promised that our father would be kept comfortable. A few days later, he 'slipped away'!

So yes, a form of 'assistance' happens all the time. The problem for the medical people is when a family takes the opposite attitude to ours.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

none of us ever like to say goodbye to a loved one and we will never really be ready to say that goodbye either. i would like to be surounded by people who love me and not have to go to another country to die. i hope that in the end i never have to ask anyone i love to assist me, that i will have the strenght to do it myself, hence one of the reasons i think we should be allowed to have on our medical records. i maybe wrong here but isnt there some that can we have do not resucitate on on record.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry... but am I missing something here? I am on a swingers site and reading a forum about assisted suicide? Why would you want to discuss such a morbid subject here? Remember what the site is for and go out and play and enjoy life!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like they were saying on the debate show there is a good death and a bad death we are all going to die at some point and I would preferably die with some dignity. Instead of terminal and endless pain where there is no quality of life.

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"Sorry... but am I missing something here? I am on a swingers site and reading a forum about assisted suicide? Why would you want to discuss such a morbid subject here? Remember what the site is for and go out and play and enjoy life!"

It's a forum.

There are plenty of other threads to "play" on.

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman
over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!

" But doctors help patients to die all the time. The problem is when the urge to make them live at any cost is not in the patient's longterm interests.

The consultant thanked us and said he appreciated the meeting, and promised that our father would be kept comfortable. A few days later, he 'slipped away'!

So yes, a form of 'assistance' happens all the time. The problem for the medical people is when a family takes the opposite attitude to ours."

I very much agree that in some cases its easier for docs if desisions are made by families .

My mum had a stroke 2 yrs ago and we were told by docs to prepare for the worst,they asked us if my mums heart should stop did we want her resusitated we asked what her quality of life would be when they told us she'd be like a vegetable we asked for them to let her go should her heart stop .

The up shot was she came out of her coma after 8 days and spent 23 weeks in a stroke rhabilitation unit and finaly came home but she has no quality of life she cant communicate, walk or do anything for herself how do i feel about this ?very mixed emotions happy she is still with us very sad for her and yes sometimes i do think god why didnt you just take her so for me i cant really answer this question as to wether it is right or wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh I see your "play" on words there! Well I am entitled to my point regarding this particular thread.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

It is an adult site where we can discuss most things,it doesn't always have to be about sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's an adult site for Swingers not morbid banter. My Opinion!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

There are lots of other threads that might suit you more.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"It's an adult site for Swingers not morbid banter. My Opinion!"

ok not getting into a debate here but as the op stated in the title of the thread if easily offended do not read, the forums are here for everyone and on a multitude of different subjects. you dont like a thread you move onto the next one.

my personal opinion is this is an interesting subject that most people have thoughts on and can debate in a civil matter. this subject i wouldnt call banter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...........

So yes, a form of 'assistance' happens all the time. The problem for the medical people is when a family takes the opposite attitude to ours."

I don't know that it's such a problem.

A physician's first responsibility is to the patient and, whilst s/he will take the family's wishes into account, any decision made will be in the best interest of the patient.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I find very refreshing to have an adult conversation/debate. Just because its a swingers site do we have to talk about sex all the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's an adult site for Swingers not morbid banter. My Opinion!"

It's The Lounge. It's where we chill out a bit and acknowledge that swinging is just a part of our lives - an important part I grant you but not the entire raison d'etre.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/06/11 23:49:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I chose to give my opinion of the thread just as I choose to read it regardless of the caveat set against the title. I stand by what I have said. Now I shall leave you to your morbid debate whilst I go and have ...!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A physician's first responsibility is to the patient and, whilst s/he will take the family's wishes into account, any decision made will be in the best interest of the patient."
. Well, yes, that's the job description but the problem is that if death is imminent, surely that death, in the quietest, most dignified pain-free way is the humane option? We've all met consultants with a God Complex to whom Death is defeat

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Ok keep the nasty personal comments off the forums...the post I removed was well out of order.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd be horrified if it was my comment that had provoked a response that bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A physician's first responsibility is to the patient and, whilst s/he will take the family's wishes into account, any decision made will be in the best interest of the patient.. Well, yes, that's the job description but the problem is that if death is imminent, surely that death, in the quietest, most dignified pain-free way is the humane option? We've all met consultants with a God Complex to whom Death is defeat"

The problem for NHS consultants is that death adversly affects their 'patient outcome statistics' and some Health Boards use that as a metric for the merit awards which can easily double a consultant's already significant salary - even before private practice income is taken into account.

It's a truth that a decision taken on the last day of an accounting quarter might be different from the decision taken on the first day of the next quarter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes only with my families full consent.

And legally and medically sanctioned."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok keep the nasty personal comments off the forums...the post I removed was well out of order.

I didn't spot it but ......... thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes only with my families full consent.

And legally and medically sanctioned.

+1"

How far down the family tree ought this "full consent" be sought?

Second cousins twice removed and, if not, why not?

My opinion is that the only person authorised to make decisions about my body is ME and that I'll expect a consultant to abide by my wishes or relinquish the task to someone who will.

In anticipation of that I've already made clear to my next of kin that there are certain circumstances in which they can authorise some interventions but, in the main, nobody should strive officiously to sustain (my) life.

My call.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well this makes a change from the me me me attention seeking threads that have been awash on the forums lately.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well this makes a change from the me me me attention seeking threads that have been awash on the forums lately.

Those threads are very valuable. It's like a pre-prepared block list for those willing to see.

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By *he Happy ManMan
over a year ago

Merseyside

"Tonights programme, yes it had me in tears, but would you want the choice if it was you? And if so, would you want to travel to another country rather than your own home?

I personally think it should be legalised or is that just me xx"

Yes. I would not want to spend weeks or months in pain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just to add would rather diein my own country rather than travel all the way to Switzerlandin pain to die.

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By *oveshell74Man
over a year ago

ealing

This thread seems to be rapidly turning into an abortion thread. I think we need to be very clear that two are very different. The legality and morality of one should be kept entirely separate from the other. Abortion is intended to be prevention of a new life being created (where you decide life begins is a whole other debate). An embryo should not be a conscious entity when it occurs.

Assisted suicide on the other hand is supposedly done with the consent of the individual but I wonder how often that consent is influenced by circumstance. When someone healthy is suicidal, assisted suicide is not an option many would agree with. How comfortable you are when you are ill is also a factor.

I think it would be all to easy for cost cutting exercises to make euthanasia appear a more attractive option than it should be.

If you were given the right dose of morphine perhaps, for a while at least, you would be less inclined towards death. What if a new treatment was discovered the day after someone is euthanised? If we were able to research cryonics that could even be years later.

We can't prevent death altogether but I think way too many die unnecessarily because we can't give everyone the highest standard of care available.

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By *lack_BoltMan
over a year ago

oxford

"This thread seems to be rapidly turning into an abortion thread. I think we need to be very clear that two are very different. The legality and morality of one should be kept entirely separate from the other. Abortion is intended to be prevention of a new life being created (where you decide life begins is a whole other debate). An embryo should not be a conscious entity when it occurs.

I think it would be all to easy for cost cutting exercises to make euthanasia appear a more attractive option than it should be.

We can't prevent death altogether but I think way too many die unnecessarily because we can't give everyone the highest standard of care available."

You make some very interesting points here, which shows what a very difficult topic this is. I thought the programme was very well, and tastefully, done. But I think it raises the issues of respect, compassion, and dignity. And at what point does the decision to "assist" become valid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this has touched a raw nerve with me. i have just returned from intensive care after receiving a call from a relative that my uncle (and godfather) was close to passing over.

when i arrived i was told that they were waiting for one of my cousins to arrive from across the country to turn his machine off.

my uncle has recently had chemo for non-hodgkins and was in remission. after which he had a stem cell transplant and was transferred to ICU under sedation. he has been in and out of consciousness for a period of a month.

when i was sat there tonight i kept wondering what if they had left him alone and not kept giving him sedation, causing bedsores because he's not moved, contracting infections making him weaker and thus ending up on a ventilator.

his brain is fine, and i am convinced he would make a full recovery with the passage of time.

i for one would want something on my records NOT to allow those around me to choose whether its time or not.

like others have said, it is open to abuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is....Everyone suffering always has hope and without that hope that things will get better then they have nothing left.

It has to be about choice and as long as we are of sound mind , we all should have that choice ."

That's the word that's been missing from this thread. Hope.

Where there is life there is also hope. None of us are born with a clear path through to our ultimate destination and none of can dictate that our time here should be pain free, physically or emotionally. As a sentient species we are subject to the highs and lows that being sentient affords us but to 'duck out', for want of a better phrase, when the going gets tough is defeatist. I choose to hold onto my life for as long as nature permits me to. If at my end I am in pain then I will face that as and when it occurs but I will never concede to permitting someone else to determine the level of pain I must endure before sanctioning the end of my life prematurely. The cycle of life and death must be permitted to continue to it's conclusion as was determined at it's onset.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is....Everyone suffering always has hope and without that hope that things will get better then they have nothing left.

It has to be about choice and as long as we are of sound mind , we all should have that choice .

That's the word that's been missing from this thread. Hope.

well written wishy x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well – at last, a thread that has been honestly and humanly debated (with one or two inconsequential exceptions). None of the usual despairing subsidence into mindless waffle – thank you!

It’s a very deep subject, and one that touches us all – we must all meet death some day. It’s a natural part of the life process, and so we are all entitled to take our own individual approach to it.

I am no longer scared of death – if it comes for me today then I will be sad, but could accept that my time has come. I’ve lived a full and worthwhile life and can look death in the face with a clear conscience that I’ve earned the right to go.

But I am terrified of growing old slowly, of sinking into physical and mental disability, and pray so hard that if that happens, then there will be a way out with some dignity and a minimum of suffering.

I have no family left to mourn, or to take the decision for me – so I long for the right to be set free on my own terms....

And I do know what death is like – I have seen it steal away a precious life too soon..

I agree that it does not come within a Doctor’s remit to take life, so surely should there not be a proper legal process where, in extremis, a court or a judge can make the ruling fairly? But this can never happen until we remove the stigma of suicide and bring it within the law.

Thanks again for all your honest comments and for the chance to write my own...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a nurse for the past 24 years I have witnessed more than my fair share of deaths, my mind has changed from being pro assisted suicide as Ive seen many people begging for a chance to sustain life even though they have been clear in their wishes to die peacefully. Very few people can really know what they would want in their final stages of life.

As a nurse I would not participate in any assisted suicides if they were legal due to my experiences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sat my old Grandad in the middle of Glasgow Bus Station in his wheelchair with an England Shirt on...He went quickly bless him...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do not think that you can know how you will feel if faced with the decision, until it happens. However I do know that IF you decide that your quality of life is no longer acceptable, then you shuld be allowed to make what is your own personal decision. It is not the responsibility of others to make that decision for you.

PS. I have an incurable disease, which I can live with at present and do live a full life. At present I cannot envisgae being faced with the decision, but it wold be MY decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really belive its a personal choice

I for one would want the ability ta end my life

But there has ta be safegaurds in place

IE 6 or more drs agreeing its in the persons best interests

And a living will singed by the paitent while of sound mind

Watching my strong gran in a coma dying of cancer that was ravaging her for 4 weeks was the hardest thing i have ever witnessed

You wouldn't put an animal through what she went through and a change in the law is badly needed

I find attitudes against the choice to take your own life both selfish and disturbing

Its our life it should be our choice

If you don't want it fine

But if you do then it should be allowed

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Personally I would like the option to choose to end my life,there are couple of conditions that if I ever got then I would start to put things in place and hubby knows about that,I would'nt expect or want him to do it,I want to be able to choose the time myself

As a nurse though,I would never be able to be the one that ends someones life,that is not why I became a nurse, the ethical,moral and legal implications that surround assisted suicide are there for a reason,not everyone has a relatives best interests at heart and the repercussions are too huge for me to even contemplate being the one that gives that last dose of medication

I did'nt see the programme last night but watched a documentary about Dignitas a while ago,it was heartbreaking but I completely understand why some people take that option

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but surely as health care professionals people have a duty of care to that patient?

if the patient has mental capacity and is suffering why can't people make their own dicissions, after all that's what people are entitled too.

People can write living wills and hand over decission making to relitives/close friends when conditions like dementia/parkinsons/alzheimers/huntingtons come into play.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"make it legal.... if you have a termimal illness and you know there is no cure then dont prolong the agon after all you dont let animals suffer so why should a human

My dear sister had a terminal illness which she fought daily and for 10 years, always hoping the treatment she had would work, another year, six months...

Ive never known anyone fight so bloody hard to stay alive.yet she lost but none of us would have had it any other way."

I know exactly where your coming from Peaches but I too lost a sister from the same thing. I remember one evening sitting with her in the hospice watching her suffer. It was only a few days close to when she eventually passed, but listening to the morphine driver click as it pumped more into her. For a brief moment I entertained the idea of breaking that driver and pumping the whole lot into her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know what really annoys me

If a dog was ill to the point it had no standard or quality of life and you dragged it out till the very in, in pain, the RSPCA was prosecute you

Yet humans have to suffer till the very end

How can that be right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

abscence of hope missing from this thread?-I'd said earlier-

havinga niece with a debilitating physical illness my hope is in our advancements we will sort out some things in years so she can walk. its not science fiction that its already possible to give people back eyesight, give people back limbs(not prospetic limbs), and even at some point we may be able to repair minds after the onset of dementias.

I know its no comfort watching suffering but I dont know about universally accepting euthinasea and its not my _iew that its about money grabbing relatives....ive more faith in humans than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The mention of money grabbing relatives makes me consider all those old folk who are sequested away in old folk's homes and abandoned by the offspring/relatives until the time for sorting the will out comes along. I do believe that a lot of people who may be of a mind to consider assisted suicide could well be encouraged by greedy relatives who cannot wait for them to die naturally.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if someone is determined to go out on their own terms, and that there is zero chance of a cure for their illness, why wait until such a time that someone else has to do it for them, and possibly face a prison sentence for doing so.

There are many ways to end one's life if that's what you want to do and are determined enough to go through with it, so surely the most expeditionary way to do it would be by one's own hand when one is in full possession of one's faculties.

I know what's going to be thrown back at this post and I'm deliberately playing devil's advocate here, but it's a valid part of this discussion that warrants a mention.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

there has been a lot of valid reasons for and against this subject. a few of the comments have gave me food for thought. its not a black and white subject, but one of the things that has surprised me the most and in a good way, is that we have all got our own thoughts and opinions on this, but no one has turned this into a farcial and said that one or the other is wrong. i personally have drawn my opinion from personal experience and reading some of the other post most have done the same thing. its such a difficult thing to try and comprehend but the opinions here have been done with honesty and compassion. xx

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"ive more faith in humans than that."

I may have agreed with that a few years ago but experience with some people has made me think differently

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ive more faith in humans than that.

I may have agreed with that a few years ago but experience with some people has made me think differently

how dare u disagree with me...after my compliments 2 minutes ago!!!!- farcifies thread now...Im right!!!lol

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

" snip..........

Not true anymore. The modern version of the Hippocratic oath allows for a wider interpretation of the original:-

"Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God."

This is the only mention of the life/death question in the Hippocratic oath as used toady, but even this varies from country to country and religion to religion. Doctors are not legally, or morally obliged to take the oath anymore.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't know that. Thanks for educating me. It seems the times they are a changing, but albeit very slowly and extremely carefully. Not a bad thing I guess.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

These days, legal protocols are written into all UK medical qualifications which originate from the WHO guidelines of life-preservation and non-intervention. I have been asked many times to cease cpr or withold vital drugs, but have never done so, because that is inbuilt into my own treatment ethic, as well as legal protocols. I'll be damned if I let a patient die on me, whether they want to or not!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" These days, legal protocols are written into all UK medical qualifications which originate from the WHO guidelines of life-preservation and non-intervention. I have been asked many times to cease cpr or withold vital drugs, but have never done so, because that is inbuilt into my own treatment ethic, as well as legal protocols. I'll be damned if I let a patient die on me, whether they want to or not!"

Is that fair on the patient? It sounds like the most important thing, to you, is keeping someone alive - even if it's clear that's not in the patient's best interests.

It sounds, and I'm being deliberately, harsh here, as if it's just about getting to the end of your shift with 'no losses' and leaving an issue which should have been adressed earlier to the next shift.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

Is that fair on the patient? It sounds like the most important thing, to you, is keeping someone alive - even if it's clear that's not in the patient's best interests.

Yup, you're quite right - I save lives to avoid doing the paperwork

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By *eaboMan
over a year ago

marden

quality over quantity every time. I would want my children to know, but not be there. And in my own home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is that fair on the patient? It sounds like the most important thing, to you, is keeping someone alive - even if it's clear that's not in the patient's best interests.

Yup, you're quite right - I save lives to avoid doing the paperwork

Since we know (I hope!) you're kidding about the paperwork - where's the problem in having a patient die on your watch?

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

Is that fair on the patient? It sounds like the most important thing, to you, is keeping someone alive - even if it's clear that's not in the patient's best interests.

Yup, you're quite right - I save lives to avoid doing the paperwork

Since we know (I hope!) you're kidding about the paperwork - where's the problem in having a patient die on your watch?"

I don't work in a hospital, I work mainly as a paramedic in the UK and as a trauma medic with MSF in various shitholes round the world. The patients I attend don't have their full medical history on them, and are usually not in any kind of position to communicate effectively. In these situations, keeping the patient alive is always in their best interest - if they recover, they can choose to take their own life if they wish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a can of worms I know, but that's my take on it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just how I see it and others may see it differently."

Hi there am the ugly part of us. I lived a long time in Switzerland and speak Swiss German. The Swiss are very unhappy with all the outsiders travelling to Switzerland to have assisted "death". However unknown to many there is no doctor present but a "Begleiter". A doctor sees your medical report and writes out the medi's and that was it for him [Dignitas uses 1 doctor]. The whole discussion has been going in Switzerland for 20 years now and no one has found a solution. The main issue is are we allowed do die in a way of our choice or are we hooked up to machines until someone "pulls the plug"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The thing about Switzerland people use it as a way out how many of them that travel have weeks or even months left to live and they die too soon out of fear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who owns your life?" asked Terry Pratchett, the 63-year-old novelist diagnosed with Alzheimer's three years ago. The question lay at the heart of his profoundly affecting journey to Dignitas to explore the prospect of assisted suicide for himself, and accompany two British men who ended their lives in the Swiss euthanasia clinic.

The media controversy that had swirled around one of these deaths, captured on screen and observed by Pratchett, had threatened to hijack the finer points of this stunning, sensitive documentary. In the end, while Peter Smedley's final moments were highly discomforting _iewing, they did not feel like gratuitous or voyeuristic television-making. They hit home the point that had hitherto remained theoretical: that this final cup of tea, this surreal composure, this fast gulping of a poison liquid and this gasping for breath and pleading for water is what it meant to give a man the right to die.

It was wise of the BBC to schedule a Newsnight debate straight after its airing. Pratchett's authored documentary could not have failed to leave a single _iewer unmoved or unprovoked, and not just because of the death of Mr Smedley, a wealthy 71-year-old with motor neurone disease flanked by his wife and a Dignitas "escort" in his final moments.

Pratchett delved deeply into the manner and method of our inevitable departure, and to what degree this should be self-determined. While he spoke of the campaign to have the right to die legalised in Britain, he never veered into out-and-out polemic. His tone was personal and inquisitive, and there was enough doubt to give his outlook psychological texture and moral complexity: "I know a time will come when words will fail me, when I can't write my books. I'm not sure I will want to go on living. Is it possible for someone like me and you to arrange for themselves a death that they want?" The question was clearly a wrenching task for Pratchett, who wiped away tears on numerous occasions and asked himself what he would want when it came to the crunch.

Neither was the Dignitas way out a foregone conclusion. One of the company's conditions is that the client administers a deadly poison themselves, rather than have a relative or doctor assist them.

The two men he followed might have ended their life sooner than was necessary, Pratchett argued, so that they could have the death they would eventually want, and so that their families could not be punished for assisting them. "It struck me the reason Peter was going now was to help to protect his wife. If you help someone to die, you may be prosecuted," Pratchett said.

His own Alzheimer's is not yet acute but by the time it is, he may be too late to sign up to Dignitas. "The problem with Alzheimer's is the minute you are ready to die you may not be able to speak. You might have to die earlier than necessary." This seemed to be the case for Andrew Colgan, a 42-year-old with multiple sclerosis who had an evident lust for life but wanted to die this way while he still could.

The most philosophically interesting moments came with Pratchett questioning the principles of voluntary death as it is currently practised. Speaking to Mrs Smedley, his voiceover said: "There is something distasteful about this."

Mrs Smedley's mind had itself wandered to Nazi Germany ("I probably shouldn't say this....") she said, half laughingly, while talking about the similarity of German accents and the Swiss accents of Dignitas staff. Of course, it is not the same thing, yet disabled people were prominent in the Nazis' programme to terminate "lives unworthy of life" and an undertone remains, however unintentional.

Driving to the clinic, Pratchett got a similar disquieting feeling. The clinic was in an industrial estate, and it seems in a sinister way, a little factory of death, set within a cloister of warehouses and manufacturing factories, Pratchett intimated.

There are other uncomfortable moments to offset a simple case for the right-to-die in the Dignitas way. Ludwig Minelli, the head of Dignitas, set it up after coming across Article Eight of the European Convention of Human Rights: the right to self-determination. In keeping with that principle and determining one's end, we were told that 21 per cent of those who went to Dignitas were not terminally ill but had a "weariness for life". And Mr Colgan made a chilling point – albeit, half in jest – before he died: "One day there will be protocol around this," he said, a card perhaps, with the words "Congratulations on your death."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i would sooner be dead than simply exist

life is for living not existing

could i assist someone in dying tho ?

hmmm not so sure

having responsibility for your own life is one thing - having responsibility for someone elses is a whole different thing !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i would sooner be dead than simply exist

life is for living not existing

could i assist someone in dying tho ?

hmmm not so sure

having responsibility for your own life is one thing - having responsibility for someone elses is a whole different thing !"

i agree with first bit and to answer second bit yes i could

we have this exact situation in our family at the moment a member with MS and it has already been discussed at legnth and my mother will be the one that helps her when the time comes

we have talked about it at legnth as a family and have all agreed should anyone need help we will all be here for each other

i just hope one day we can do it here not have to travel abroad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i would sooner be dead than simply exist

life is for living not existing

could i assist someone in dying tho ?

hmmm not so sure

having responsibility for your own life is one thing - having responsibility for someone elses is a whole different thing !"

i agree with first bit and to answer second bit yes i could

we have this exact situation in our family at the moment a member with MS and it has already been discussed at legnth and my mother will be the one that helps her when the time comes

we have talked about it at legnth as a family and have all agreed should anyone need help we will all be here for each other

i just hope one day we can do it here not have to travel abroad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who owns your life?" asked Terry Pratchett, the 63-year-old novelist diagnosed with Alzheimer's three years ago. The question lay at the heart of his profoundly affecting journey to Dignitas to explore the prospect of assisted suicide for himself, and accompany two British men who ended their lives in the Swiss euthanasia clinic.

Neither was the Dignitas way out a foregone conclusion. One of the company's conditions is that the client administers a deadly poison themselves, rather than have a relative or doctor assist them.

Its quite ironic that 50+ years ago people were screaming to get out of little rooms in the middle of nowhere(nazi germany) and runing off to switzeland...Now they are running off to little rooms inthe middle of nowhere in switzeland ....

Sad.

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