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Ecigs? Smoking or not?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Got myself a Smok Alien or portable smoke machine lol.

Is it still classed as smoking despite currently smelling of pink lemonade with a fizz if raspberry?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think vaping is smoking

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Not in my opinion. Burning and inhalation is my concept of smoking.

Vaping is more akin to steaming with Vicks or Olbas oil etc to me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Hence my question. Are ecigs classed as smoking? Not in my smell.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Technically they are but in my opinion yes they are lol

Well I still class myself as a smoker

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'm guessing that they were termed smoking devices by companies wanting to sell them as an option for smokers to switch to from tobacco cigarettes.

If someone inhales a vapour then breathing in over a steaming hot tea or coffee should count too. Breathing in a vapour, which may contain no nicotine, is absolutely not breathing in a material that is burning. For most people, it's the smell of burned material, which can render that smell on them, that is disliked.

Go to a sauna/steam room, where eucalyptus etc is added to the heat, no one would sensibly consider you a smoker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vaping is a substitute to smoking in most case's, I've yet to hear of anyone who took up vaping and not tobacco, Tobacco and it's additives are addictive, some say that pure tobacco is less of a health issue then commercial stuff in cigarettes , same goes for vape's, but again it's open to commercial abuse and the risk that companies will ad products into it to hook people to it, thus making them more profit from it.

Tobacco ( in commercial form) should be listed as a drug and treated as such, it is addictive, as is many of the other commercially available illegal drugs on the market today.

Vaping was first introduced to the smoker's of this world ( I am one of them) as an alternative and an aid to rehabilitate smokers from the dreaded "" and to get around the " no smoking in public area's" issue, though most place's now ban "E=Ciggs" too now.

I use an E-Cig as a replacement when I'm in company and use a calm Vape with a nice after smell and find most people who do not smoke have no issue with it's use around them, in fact most say it's the smell of tobacco being burnt that they dislike and not the people who do it ( LOL ).

If Vaping is a replacement for smoking why have the companies who sell anti smoking aids (Nicurette ect) made a Vape pack available in their range of products to assist people get off the !!!!. answer is not enough profit to be had because there are to many other companies offering a kit and refills.

And as a side line as kid's my mum use to put a "Vic Vaporizer" in our room over night to help with cold's and breathing issues (chesty cough's) and my doctor recommended "steaming"with olbas oil as an aid for our asthmatic son ( a form of VAPING )

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By *uriousc88Woman
over a year ago

Reading

Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd class you in the same league as a smoker, hence I wouldn't want you vaping away in a public place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not as manky as fags but it's still manky!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if it was classed as smoking all pubs would ban it? My local allows vaping - thank god lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter."

In many ways I find it worse, the cloud of vape that people put out as they walk down the street seems much bigger than that of smokers. And the other day I was starting to wonder if a car was actually in fire so much vape was coming out of it!

Worse still is knowing that all that cloud of vape came out of someone's body, at least with smoke some of it comes off the cig without being cycles through a human!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"if it was classed as smoking all pubs would ban it? My local allows vaping - thank god lol"

Sounds like a return to the bad old days of trying to find somewhere where you could eat/drink without having to smoke someone else's fags!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vaping is not smoking, even the government agrees on this.

For it to be smoking there would need to be combustion and inhalation of smoke. Vaping is the heating of a liquid and the inhalation of vapour (steam).

It's not even related to smoking or any kind of tobacco products and it's currently understood to be 95% safer than smoking and there is no harm from inhaling second hand vapour.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter."

Where do you have to go to receive this 'forced' behaviour?

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter.

In many ways I find it worse, the cloud of vape that people put out as they walk down the street seems much bigger than that of smokers. And the other day I was starting to wonder if a car was actually in fire so much vape was coming out of it!

Worse still is knowing that all that cloud of vape came out of someone's body, at least with smoke some of it comes off the cig without being cycles through a human!"

Yes shit never thought of that... it's like breathing?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Technically they are but in my opinion yes they are lol

Well I still class myself as a smoker "

Technically they aren't.

If you've not had a cigarette for a year, regardless of whether you vape, you're classed as a non-smoker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Got myself a Smok Alien or portable smoke machine lol.

Is it still classed as smoking despite currently smelling of pink lemonade with a fizz if raspberry?"

The Alien is a nice mod and if I ever need a replacement regulated device that will probably be what I go for (I predominantly use mechs).

Did you get the Beast tank with it? Make sure you close the airflow all the way when you fill it or it can leak.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Technically they are but in my opinion yes they are lol

Well I still class myself as a smoker

Technically they aren't.

If you've not had a cigarette for a year, regardless of whether you vape, you're classed as a non-smoker."

Who makes this classification? I agree btw just wondering for insurance purposes?, medically?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Technically they are but in my opinion yes they are lol

Well I still class myself as a smoker

Technically they aren't.

If you've not had a cigarette for a year, regardless of whether you vape, you're classed as a non-smoker.

Who makes this classification? I agree btw just wondering for insurance purposes?, medically? "

The NHS.

I hit my one year on the 27th.

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By *londieddWoman
over a year ago

fife

I think it's still smoking and I can smell the nicotine off people who vape

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Technically they are but in my opinion yes they are lol

Well I still class myself as a smoker

Technically they aren't.

If you've not had a cigarette for a year, regardless of whether you vape, you're classed as a non-smoker.

Who makes this classification? I agree btw just wondering for insurance purposes?, medically?

The NHS.

I hit my one year on the 27th."

Well done!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's still smoking and I can smell the nicotine off people who vape"

Amazing as nicotine is odourless!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Got in a taxi the other day, and the cab smelt absolutely gorgeous!! When I asked the driver what car freshener he used, he admitted to just having a vape. Doesn't bother me at all. I find some scents downright edible. From the reports I've read, it's not classed as smoking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't stand the vapours that get puffed out of them, makes me feel icky. The last bloke I met tasted heavily of vapours, it was disgusting, just as bad as smoking.

I would recommend a good teeth clean or mints before a meet. And don't vape in front of meet unless they say it's okay.

We don't really know what's in the vapours or if it's harmful.

I think vapings a bit of a trend,some people think it's cool, it's no better than smoking in some ways xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

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By *ouple4biMMFCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

I still see someone who vapes or uses ecig thing's as being smokers. Haven't a clue what the difference is between these thing's,but if you put it to your lips and suck you smoke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can't stand the vapours that get puffed out of them, makes me feel icky. The last bloke I met tasted heavily of vapours, it was disgusting, just as bad as smoking.

I would recommend a good teeth clean or mints before a meet. And don't vape in front of meet unless they say it's okay.

We don't really know what's in the vapours or if it's harmful.

I think vapings a bit of a trend,some people think it's cool, it's no better than smoking in some ways xxx"

We know EXACTLY what's in vape liquid - vegetable glycerine, propyline glycol, nicotine (in small amounts and some liquids have none at all) and then it's food flavourings.

The Royal College of Physician's has said that vaping is 95% safer than smoking after years of trials and tests and the only reason for vape products to be included in the new TPD regulations is because the big pharmaceutical companies and big tobacco companies (the ones who sponsor the negative reports) also fund certain EU officials to have them included so they don't loose as much money when people quit smoking and stop getting smoking related illnesses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking"

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"I still see someone who vapes or uses ecig thing's as being smokers. Haven't a clue what the difference is between these thing's,but if you put it to your lips and suck you smoke "

Like a straw to drink with?

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"I can't stand the vapours that get puffed out of them, makes me feel icky. The last bloke I met tasted heavily of vapours, it was disgusting, just as bad as smoking.

I would recommend a good teeth clean or mints before a meet. And don't vape in front of meet unless they say it's okay.

We don't really know what's in the vapours or if it's harmful.

I think vapings a bit of a trend,some people think it's cool, it's no better than smoking in some ways xxx"

No better in what ways?

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation."

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

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By *ouple4biMMFCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham


"I still see someone who vapes or uses ecig thing's as being smokers. Haven't a clue what the difference is between these thing's,but if you put it to your lips and suck you smoke

Like a straw to drink with?"

Most definitely! Those I hear are the most dangerous for your health avoid at all costs. Especially the spiral one's

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By *ildatlantic3wayCouple
over a year ago

donegal

Smoking kills, anything that stops people smoking is great.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Smoking kills, anything that stops people smoking is great."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!"

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months."

The HSE could possibly have concerns relating more to a breach of general duty under HASAW 1974 (2)1.

If you could provide a link to the smoking at work regulations I'll take a look!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months."

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's not as manky as fags but it's still manky!

"

I mean, if you absolutely have to put something in your mouth

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I've smelled tobacco smoke on smokers after they've finished but not vaping on vapers. I'd imagine that most people who don't want to meet smokers do this due to the fragrance.

No person who vapes would do it on a meet unless you agreed, surely? As such, I don't see the issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter."

This about sums our opinion of Vaping up too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

"

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will meet smokers, it doesn't really bother me - but I class smoking and vaping as equivalent and prefer that neither of them happen in my presence.

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By *uriousc88Woman
over a year ago

Reading


"Personally, I find being forced to inhale vast clouds of sickly sweet smelling vapour just as offensive to my nose as cigarette smoke, if not moreso.

I would consider vaping to be smoking, and would choose not to meet a vaper as I would choose not to meet a smoker.

Other people's opinions do vary on the matter.

Where do you have to go to receive this 'forced' behaviour?"

When I'm walking down the street and the person in front of me exhales a vast cloud of vape-gas. It's not like I can avoid inhaling it, when it's left drifting in the air behind them. Or if they do it in the pub, where I'm trying to enjoy a pleasant evening with friends.

I also find it distasteful when people wear so much perfume or aftershave it's like a cloud around them, too... so, you know, I'm not just picking on vapers and smokers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations."

I'm not disagreeing with you re the 2nd hand smoke, I can't see anywhere where it says they have to allow vapers to have a break if they allow smokers, that's my interpretation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Smoking vs. vaping chemicals

Aside from the stench of tobacco cigarette smoke vs. the non-offensive or usually pleasant scents associated with vaping, burning tobacco generates a smoke that is a toxic cocktail of chemicals that affect not only the smoker, but others as well.

Chemicals in tobacco cigarette smoke

Acetaldehyde: suspected carcinogen.

Acetone: irritant: can cause kidney and liver damage.

Acrolein: extremely toxic.

Acrylonitrile: suspected human carcinogen.

1-aminonaphthalene: causes cancer.

2-aminonaphthalene: causes bladder cancer.

Ammonia: raises blood pressure.

Benzene: carcinogen.

Benzo[a]pyrene: mutagenic and highly carcinogenic

1,3-Butadiene: suspected carcinogen.

Butyraldehyde: damages the lining of nose and lungs.

Cadmium: a heavy metal and highly toxic

Carbon Monoxide: decreases heart and muscle function.

Catechol: causes respiratory tract irritation and dermatitis.

Chromium: heavy metal and carcinogen.

Cresol: causes upper respiratory, nasal and throat irritation.

Crotonaldehyde: thought to interfere with immune function.

Formaldehyde: carcinogen

Hydrogen Cyanide: lethal poison

Hydroquinone: affects central nervous system effects.

Isoprene: irritates skin,eyes and mucous membranes.

Lead: causes brain damage

Methyl Ethyl Ketone: depresses the central nervous system.

Nickel: causes bronchial asthma and is a known carcinogen.

Nicotine: increases in heart rate and blood pressure, addictive element

Nitric Oxide: linked to Huntington’s, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease and asthma.

NNN, NNK, and NAT: known or possible carcinogens

Phenol: damages the the liver, kidneys; respiratory, cardiovascular and central nervous system.

Polonium - radioactive*

Propionaldehyde: skin, eye and respiratory system irritant

Pyridine: causes eye and upper respiratory tract irritation

Quinoline: causes genetic damage and is a possible carcinogen

Resorcinol: skin and eye irritant

Styrene: carcinogen

Toluene: linked to permanent brain damage.

... and thousands of other chemicals. No wonder I was feeling the way I was and it's amazing so many smokers get to live as long as we do.

* Australian scientist Dr Karl Kruszelnicki says the polonium released in tobacco cigarettes is the equivalent to 200 chest x-rays a year for people who smoke a pack of cigarettes every day.

Chemicals in ecig vapours

Compare that partial list with chemicals and compounds in e-cigarette vapours

Nicotine

Propylene glycol (not Ethylene glycol - which is toxic). Used in asthma inhalers and nebulizers. An experiment using animals determined "air containing these vapors in amounts up to the saturation point is completely harmless". The USA FDA has classified propylene glycol as "generally recognised as safe".

Vegetable glycerol - low toxicity. Used in medications, cosmetic and food items.

The only other chemicals are in the flavourings, which (if coming from a reputable merchant) are food grade and generally recognised as safe. By volume, flavours make up a very small percentage of eliquids.

However, it needs to be stated that food flavorings are designed to be digested, not vaporised and inhaled and the effects of using food flavors in such a way over a long period are yet to be established.

That said, very few carcinogenic chemicals have been found in e-cigarette vapours, and those present only appear to be in trace quantities - far less than in burning tobacco and similar or less than in recognised nicotine replacement therapies.

Unlike cigarette smoke, nearly all of the nicotine is absorbed in vaping.

Medical research:

E-cigarettes: harmless inhaled or exhaled

Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco (PDF)

Dr Joel Nitzkin, Chair of the Tobacco Control Task Force for the American Association of Public Health Physicians, believes the hazards posed by e-cigarettes would be much lower than one percent of that posed by smoking tobacco cigarettes.

In fact, the AAPHP states:

"Substances in the cigarette smoke, other than the nicotine, inhaled deep into the lung, cause most of the tobacco-attributable illness and death in the United States."

The AAPHP recommends electronic cigarettes as a less hazardous smoke-free tobacco/nicotine product.

Ecigs are a viable harm reduction device in my opinion, one that more smokers need to know about.

Important caveat

Ecigs have really only been in use for the past few years, so nothing is known about the long term effects. However, given 50% of tobacco smokers will die as a direct result of their habit (and often in a horrible way), it would seem to me that it's a risk worth taking.

It was for me as I really had nothing to lose as I was quite certain I was going to be one of the 50% that smoking would kill - and probably sooner rather than later.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I kept my smokers status when I moved to vaping because people who are willing to meet smokers are less likely to bitch about my vanilla exhalations.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation."

Report them to who? The HSE no say over whether a company allows vaping on their premises or not or if they should class it the same as smoking and so not allow it to be done inside. They simply say that the 2 areas should be separate (although interestingly they don't say by what distance).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

I'm not disagreeing with you re the 2nd hand smoke, I can't see anywhere where it says they have to allow vapers to have a break if they allow smokers, that's my interpretation."

Have you read the whole thing or just the condensed website version?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

Report them to who? The HSE no say over whether a company allows vaping on their premises or not or if they should class it the same as smoking and so not allow it to be done inside. They simply say that the 2 areas should be separate (although interestingly they don't say by what distance).

"

I never said it should be allowed inside as I don't think it should (although legally it is allowed but is subject to individual company policy).

You can report it to the HSE who will then take appropriate action or point you in the direction of who can take appropriate action.

PHE and TRCP also support these regulations.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?"

Probably, although it depends on the strength of nicotine in the e-liquid.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

Report them to who? The HSE no say over whether a company allows vaping on their premises or not or if they should class it the same as smoking and so not allow it to be done inside. They simply say that the 2 areas should be separate (although interestingly they don't say by what distance).

I never said it should be allowed inside as I don't think it should (although legally it is allowed but is subject to individual company policy).

You can report it to the HSE who will then take appropriate action or point you in the direction of who can take appropriate action.

PHE and TRCP also support these regulations."

even on the premises....where i work people cannot take any smoking or vaping paraphernalia into work to smoke in open areas. if they want to do either then they have to go out to their car (or soon to be built shelters).

The HSE will do nothing more than speak to employers if it involves a number of smokers or there is inadequate signage/warnings etc, enforcement of smoke free legislation is referred to the local authority.

Personally speaking i see it as the same as smoking, although currently thought of as less harmful (remember the time when cigs were good for you?? lol). i dont think smokers or vapers should be entitled to an extra break times , although i know a few smokers who think they are....i was not their favourite manager lol

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

Probably, although it depends on the strength of nicotine in the e-liquid. "

I know someone who uses these as a stepping-stone to quitting smoking cigarettes. He still smells of cigarettes, to me; pity because I otherwise like him

Maybe the background cigarette smell is because of the nicotine. And if these contain nicotine, then how are these any better than cigarettes (health-wise)?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?"

Some of them don't contain any at all, they're just flavoured. I think the burned fumes from a cigarette would contain way more, as well as particulates etc.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

Probably, although it depends on the strength of nicotine in the e-liquid.

I know someone who uses these as a stepping-stone to quitting smoking cigarettes. He still smells of cigarettes, to me; pity because I otherwise like him

Maybe the background cigarette smell is because of the nicotine. And if these contain nicotine, then how are these any better than cigarettes (health-wise)?"

It's not the nicotine that kills you, although it is addictive. The things that kill you in cigarettes is the literal burning of leaves, plus the 100s of chemicals added by the cigarette manufacturer.

If your vaping friend still smells of cigarettes then he is either vaping a tobacco flavoured liquid, or it is psychosomatic. Some liquids are 0% nicotine, so nothing addictive at all apart from the actual gustatory pleasure.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

Probably, although it depends on the strength of nicotine in the e-liquid.

I know someone who uses these as a stepping-stone to quitting smoking cigarettes. He still smells of cigarettes, to me; pity because I otherwise like him

Maybe the background cigarette smell is because of the nicotine. And if these contain nicotine, then how are these any better than cigarettes (health-wise)?"

You need an answer to that?

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

Probably, although it depends on the strength of nicotine in the e-liquid.

I know someone who uses these as a stepping-stone to quitting smoking cigarettes. He still smells of cigarettes, to me; pity because I otherwise like him

Maybe the background cigarette smell is because of the nicotine. And if these contain nicotine, then how are these any better than cigarettes (health-wise)?

It's not the nicotine that kills you, although it is addictive. The things that kill you in cigarettes is the literal burning of leaves, plus the 100s of chemicals added by the cigarette manufacturer.

If your vaping friend still smells of cigarettes then he is either vaping a tobacco flavoured liquid, or it is psychosomatic. Some liquids are 0% nicotine, so nothing addictive at all apart from the actual gustatory pleasure."

You could be right. I may be sub-consciously associating his e-cigs with the smell of cigarettes

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations."

You mentioned earlier that it was a requirement of the HSE... and mentioned the "smoking at work regulations" I asked you cite the regulations?

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

Report them to who? The HSE no say over whether a company allows vaping on their premises or not or if they should class it the same as smoking and so not allow it to be done inside. They simply say that the 2 areas should be separate (although interestingly they don't say by what distance).

I never said it should be allowed inside as I don't think it should (although legally it is allowed but is subject to individual company policy).

You can report it to the HSE who will then take appropriate action or point you in the direction of who can take appropriate action.

PHE and TRCP also support these regulations."

What regulations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them!

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them! "

Wood grain?

My daughters power pack lights up with LEDs when she's vaping. It amuses me.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them! "

How many Joules?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them! "

they may not be legally the same but people's interpretation or perception of it can be the same and it is that which dictates wether they meet vapers or not

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them!

they may not be legally the same but people's interpretation or perception of it can be the same and it is that which dictates wether they meet vapers or not"

There are people who perceive they are constantly being chased by people who don't exist! Doesn't make it credible as an argument

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them!

they may not be legally the same but people's interpretation or perception of it can be the same and it is that which dictates wether they meet vapers or not

There are people who perceive they are constantly being chased by people who don't exist! Doesn't make it credible as an argument"

yeah cos that is the same as saying whether or not they want to fuck someone or are you saying vapers can make complaints to the local authority because beryl wont let them fuck her because she views vapers the same as smokers?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Vaping is not the same as smoking health and smell-wise, but if I won't meet a person who is likely to bitch at me all night for smelling like apple pie, then I won't bitch if they choose not to meet me because of it.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Vaping is not the same as smoking health and smell-wise, but if I won't meet a person who is likely to bitch at me all night for smelling like apple pie, then I won't bitch if they choose not to meet me because of it."

I don't bitch at him; I just scowl everytime he 'powers-up'

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Vaping is not the same as smoking health and smell-wise, but if I won't meet a person who is likely to bitch at me all night for smelling like apple pie, then I won't bitch if they choose not to meet me because of it.

I don't bitch at him; I just scowl everytime he 'powers-up' "

Hah, my Mum does that. It doesn't work. Especially as its only the nicotine that stops me from smothering her with a pillow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them!

Wood grain?

My daughters power pack lights up with LEDs when she's vaping. It amuses me."

Yeah the whole battery is wrapped in genuine fake walnut!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Vaping is not smoking, fact!

There's no two ways about it, they're completely different!

Currently on an aspire cleito tank with 0.4 ohm coil and an eleaf ipower 80 Watt mod in wood grain colour! Classy and pretty huge clouds for all you boring brians who don't like them!

they may not be legally the same but people's interpretation or perception of it can be the same and it is that which dictates wether they meet vapers or not"

Ah right so that murder I committed last week was fine because I perceived it to be the right thing to do!

Doesn't matter that by law it's wrong though because it's all about perception!

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

This post took an ominous turn!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

Report them to who? The HSE no say over whether a company allows vaping on their premises or not or if they should class it the same as smoking and so not allow it to be done inside. They simply say that the 2 areas should be separate (although interestingly they don't say by what distance).

I never said it should be allowed inside as I don't think it should (although legally it is allowed but is subject to individual company policy).

You can report it to the HSE who will then take appropriate action or point you in the direction of who can take appropriate action.

PHE and TRCP also support these regulations.

even on the premises....where i work people cannot take any smoking or vaping paraphernalia into work to smoke in open areas. if they want to do either then they have to go out to their car (or soon to be built shelters).

The HSE will do nothing more than speak to employers if it involves a number of smokers or there is inadequate signage/warnings etc, enforcement of smoke free legislation is referred to the local authority.

Personally speaking i see it as the same as smoking, although currently thought of as less harmful (remember the time when cigs were good for you?? lol). i dont think smokers or vapers should be entitled to an extra break times , although i know a few smokers who think they are....i was not their favourite manager lol"

Company policy to not allow smoking or vaping on site is legal. What I'm trying to get across is that if company policy allows smoking and vaping on site they have to keep the two separated to protect the vapers from secondhand smoke, because it isn't smoking!

How is it that you see them as the same? It's a totally different process with no combustion and no smoke production. It's essentially flavoured steam.

Vaping devices have actually been around since the 1920's and over the last 10 years there have been thousands of studies into their safety. The truly independent ones (not sponsored by pharmaceutical or tobacco companies or any companies/groups they sponsor, which includes several stop smoking groups) have concluded that they're between 95 and 99% safer than smoking when used correctly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

You mentioned earlier that it was a requirement of the HSE... and mentioned the "smoking at work regulations" I asked you cite the regulations?"

I can't post links but you have the ability to go to the correct place and download a copy for yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?"

Nope. Numerous tests have been carried out and it's shown that all nicotine is absorbed when being vaped. You could fill a room with exhaled vapour and there would be no nicotine residue.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Are e-cigs blowing out nicotine?

Nope. Numerous tests have been carried out and it's shown that all nicotine is absorbed when being vaped. You could fill a room with exhaled vapour and there would be no nicotine residue."

Got to admit, a room full of blueberry vape might not be dangerous to my health, but I wouldn't like it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not offended by either vapour or cigarette smoke really - but only a vaper could think it smells pleasant. It really really doesn't

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

You mentioned earlier that it was a requirement of the HSE... and mentioned the "smoking at work regulations" I asked you cite the regulations?

I can't post links but you have the ability to go to the correct place and download a copy for yourself."

I wasn't aware of the smoking at work regulations hence I asked so that I could identify the requirement you referred to, in the legislation you referred to. Quite surprised I had no knowledge of it and that I can't find anything in U.K. Legislation under smoking at work regs.... ? Don't bother with a link if you just state the specific title of the legislation and it's date of commencement I can find it that way!

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By *nsert user name hereMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Recently having worked at a company that supplied concentrated flavours for ecig liquid manufacturing you'll be surprised to know they are identical to the ones used in food manufacturing. The company primarily supplies bakeries and sweet manufacturers. So the clouds are completely safe

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"Recently having worked at a company that supplied concentrated flavours for ecig liquid manufacturing you'll be surprised to know they are identical to the ones used in food manufacturing. The company primarily supplies bakeries and sweet manufacturers. So the clouds are completely safe "

Big difference between sucking and smelling, as we all know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Recently having worked at a company that supplied concentrated flavours for ecig liquid manufacturing you'll be surprised to know they are identical to the ones used in food manufacturing. The company primarily supplies bakeries and sweet manufacturers. So the clouds are completely safe "

So you're saying the flavourings are safe?

That sounds unsafe!!

Ban them now!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I regard vapers as smokers.

I know the usual people with the usual defences don't like that, but it remains the case.

Besides the smell, the nicotine addiction and social behaviours, both things have in common the angry defensiveness of addicts.

Beyond my personal opinion I don't think it can be justified to permit vaping in public while so little is known of the impacts it may have.

Best treated and regarded as the same.

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By *nsert user name hereMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Well what's safe? I could tell u about the well known sweet that used to use chloroform as it's secret ingredient until it was banned but don't want a law suit lol and people say there not as good as they used to be.

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By *nsert user name hereMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I think of them the same but got more important issues to worry about than forcing my opinion on others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well what's safe? I could tell u about the well known sweet that used to use chloroform as it's secret ingredient until it was banned but don't want a law suit lol and people say there not as good as they used to be. "

Like cyanide in spinach?

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By *nsert user name hereMan
over a year ago

Manchester

[Removed by poster at 29/12/16 23:41:27]

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"I regard vapers as smokers.

I know the usual people with the usual defences don't like that, but it remains the case.

Besides the smell, the nicotine addiction and social behaviours, both things have in common the angry defensiveness of addicts.

Beyond my personal opinion I don't think it can be justified to permit vaping in public while so little is known of the impacts it may have.

Best treated and regarded as the same."

The angry defensiveness of addicts you refer to is in most cases disbelief at people saying the two are the same! Or the nonesense about the impacts it may have.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum


"I regard vapers as smokers.

I know the usual people with the usual defences don't like that, but it remains the case.

Besides the smell, the nicotine addiction and social behaviours, both things have in common the angry defensiveness of addicts.

Beyond my personal opinion I don't think it can be justified to permit vaping in public while so little is known of the impacts it may have.

Best treated and regarded as the same.

The angry defensiveness of addicts you refer to is in most cases disbelief at people saying the two are the same! Or the nonesense about the impacts it may have."

I have to admit, I am a nicotine addict. The alternative would be so much worse though.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though."

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!"

Exactly and the reason I switched to ecigs. Certainly helps and a stop gap to quitting nicotine fully in the future.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Well what's safe? I could tell u about the well known sweet that used to use chloroform as it's secret ingredient until it was banned but don't want a law suit lol and people say there not as good as they used to be. "

Victory Vs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!"

An effort to help them stop.

Not a measure they have (yet) ceased to be a smoker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I have to admit, I am a nicotine addict. The alternative would be so much worse though."

True

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!

An effort to help them stop.

Not a measure they have (yet) ceased to be a smoker."

Yes of course you're right ! Though it's quite an efficient method of smoking cessation! They cease to be a smoker when their smoking stops. It's really simple you know!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!

An effort to help them stop.

Not a measure they have (yet) ceased to be a smoker.

Yes of course you're right ! Though it's quite an efficient method of smoking cessation! They cease to be a smoker when their smoking stops. It's really simple you know!"

You sound like you need a fag

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"It is to me still smoking as I don't think any non smoker would start vaping or buying an ecig. A smoker would though.

FFS ... in an effort to help them STOP SMOKING!

An effort to help them stop.

Not a measure they have (yet) ceased to be a smoker.

Yes of course you're right ! Though it's quite an efficient method of smoking cessation! They cease to be a smoker when their smoking stops. It's really simple you know!

You sound like you need a fag "

I'm good thanks ! I don't smoke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100% of us breath in a far more harmful concoction of gas's and vapors on our daily drive to and from work, than you are ever likely to take in from a person smoking near or around you, and every time it rain's we no only get wet but get covered in untold toxin's in the rain water, the food we eat is treated with preservatives,wax's to prolong self life, meat's are treated with various things to preserve it's self life.

Radiation is used to cook our foods daily and to preserve it too.

so Vaping which if of the non nicotine variety has fewer harmful contaminants than even a bar of household soap or shampoo contain, and you worry about breathing in the "steam" (it's not smoke as nothing is burnt).

I'd much rather be stuck in a room of Vape user's than just 2 or 3 tobacco smokers.

And the main ingredient in most Vape fluid's is the same as used in the puffers used by asthmatics.

the propellant used for hairspray, air fresheners,deodorants,are known carcinogenics, skin irritants

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

I'm not disagreeing with you re the 2nd hand smoke, I can't see anywhere where it says they have to allow vapers to have a break if they allow smokers, that's my interpretation.

Have you read the whole thing or just the condensed website version?"

I've read the website version.

I do feel however based on previous posts you are trying to make it almost fit (for want of a better word).

I get you've given up the fags(which is a positive) but I think you've replaced one addiction with another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not smoking but in a lot of work places its classed as smoking

Report them if that's the case. The HSE requires all businesses to make the distinction between smoking and vaping and provide separate areas for each to protect vapers from secondhand smoke inhalation.

The HSE makes no requirement regarding the above!

It does. Check the updates on the smoking at work regulations.

They have a duty to protect non-smokers from second hand smoke and that includes vapers. Therefore they're not allowed to force vapers to use the same shelters as smokers. If they allow smoking on site they also have to allow vaping on site.

These rules have been in force for around 6 months.

I don't read it that way on the HSE website

I read it as the HSE advice is that an employer needs to consider e-cigs in the wider context of the workplace. If they prohibit the use of an e-cig but allow for vaping breaks then & only then do they have to ensure the vaper isn't at harm from 2nd hand smoke.

Which means they cannot force vapers to share shelters with smokers, which is what I said!

I've worked H&S for years and am a fully qualified member of CIEH and know how to interpret the regulations.

I'm not disagreeing with you re the 2nd hand smoke, I can't see anywhere where it says they have to allow vapers to have a break if they allow smokers, that's my interpretation.

Have you read the whole thing or just the condensed website version?

I've read the website version.

I do feel however based on previous posts you are trying to make it almost fit (for want of a better word).

I get you've given up the fags(which is a positive) but I think you've replaced one addiction with another."

The addiction really remains the same, namely, nicotine

However vaping is a Cleaner/healthier/less harmful way of sourcing the nicotine than traditional cigarettes

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