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"Disgusting that oil and gas is worth more than human life's , or should I say worth more than the 500,000 who have so far been murdered." . . This is the alternative of stopping supporting the fossil fuel industry, everybody if free to do it? | |||
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"Aleppo and Yemen both simply horrendous. Why aren't we hearing more about Yemen?" I think we'll start to hear a lot more now the DEC have launched an appeal. And because it's such a poor country, and has always been, there aren't people tweeting from inside the country (for example) to such an extent as there is with Syria which wasn't so impoverished before it all kicked off. | |||
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"Aleppo and Yemen both simply horrendous. Why aren't we hearing more about Yemen?" Yes the situation in Yemen is appalling ... The words a breakdown in humanity hardly put perspective on the horrific events taking place in both locations.. | |||
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"Politically the West has got it completely wrong on both conflicts in my opinion. The result, more civilians pay with their lives. Tragic." What, and Russia is giving all a lesson in realpolitik? | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........" It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ | |||
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"Politically the West has got it completely wrong on both conflicts in my opinion. The result, more civilians pay with their lives. Tragic. What, and Russia is giving all a lesson in realpolitik?" The West or the Russian know exactly what they do... Who takes advantages of those war ? | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/" That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you.. | |||
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"Politically the West has got it completely wrong on both conflicts in my opinion. The result, more civilians pay with their lives. Tragic. What, and Russia is giving all a lesson in realpolitik?" Russia have completely and comprehensively out manoeuvred the West on this one. Aleppo to all intents and purposes was the last stand. | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/"  | |||
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"Politically the West has got it completely wrong on both conflicts in my opinion. The result, more civilians pay with their lives. Tragic. What, and Russia is giving all a lesson in realpolitik? Russia have completely and comprehensively out manoeuvred the West on this one. Aleppo to all intents and purposes was the last stand." Is Syria more or less of a mess than Iraq? | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you.." . Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed  | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed ""If... you can keep your head whilst all those about you are losing theirs then maybe you have misunderstood the problem." | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed "Fundamentally it's this kind of attitude that actually prevents resolution; instead of getting together and figuring it out, we can all stand around in a room arguing about whose fault it is instead...... Its been played out since 2010; the international "community" are all so busy eating big dinners and having "conferences", whilst blaming each other, and pointing fingers about who SHOULD do something that they seem to have forgotten what it is they are arguing about..... ....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed
"If... you can keep your head whilst all those about you are losing theirs then maybe you have misunderstood the problem."". That's pretty apt Joe.... Although I'd probably say you've kept your head for other reasons | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed
Fundamentally it's this kind of attitude that actually prevents resolution; instead of getting together and figuring it out, we can all stand around in a room arguing about whose fault it is instead...... Its been played out since 2010; the international "community" are all so busy eating big dinners and having "conferences", whilst blaming each other, and pointing fingers about who SHOULD do something that they seem to have forgotten what it is they are arguing about.....
....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same". There's no such thing as humanity, the only thing that shocks me is people's beliefs in actually solving anything | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed
Fundamentally it's this kind of attitude that actually prevents resolution; instead of getting together and figuring it out, we can all stand around in a room arguing about whose fault it is instead...... Its been played out since 2010; the international "community" are all so busy eating big dinners and having "conferences", whilst blaming each other, and pointing fingers about who SHOULD do something that they seem to have forgotten what it is they are arguing about.....
....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same"The Syrian civil was is a direct consequence of the "Arab Spring", which the West encoraged to get rid of dictators... like Libya or Egypt, for instance. In Syria, the regime was stronger so the US and its allies supported the Rebel Alliance before the Russians stepped in... There is blame to be apportioned to Western governments, as well as regional ones. | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you.." I was thinking specifically of the migrant crisis in the Aegean and a photo of a dead child that suddenly made the press, and us, say "Someone really should do something about these brown people." | |||
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"But not Syrians?. " See: "regional governments" | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed
Fundamentally it's this kind of attitude that actually prevents resolution; instead of getting together and figuring it out, we can all stand around in a room arguing about whose fault it is instead...... Its been played out since 2010; the international "community" are all so busy eating big dinners and having "conferences", whilst blaming each other, and pointing fingers about who SHOULD do something that they seem to have forgotten what it is they are arguing about.....
....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same
The Syrian civil was is a direct consequence of the "Arab Spring", which the West encoraged to get rid of dictators... like Libya or Egypt, for instance.
In Syria, the regime was stronger so the US and its allies supported the Rebel Alliance before the Russians stepped in...
There is blame to be apportioned to Western governments, as well as regional ones."You truly believe that the West has that big an influence in the middle east and you seem to forget that there are other "actors" at play..... Well, I know a little different dear Joe, but I would hate to fall out with the liberal press on this one.... so I will retire from this thread if its all the same...... Where the Arab Spring came from is not where you think.... | |||
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"But not Syrians?. " Regardless of who's to blame, it still doesn't warrant or justify what's happening in Syria right now.  | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you... Joe just loves his Kipling.... He has a copy of the white man's burden above his bed
Fundamentally it's this kind of attitude that actually prevents resolution; instead of getting together and figuring it out, we can all stand around in a room arguing about whose fault it is instead...... Its been played out since 2010; the international "community" are all so busy eating big dinners and having "conferences", whilst blaming each other, and pointing fingers about who SHOULD do something that they seem to have forgotten what it is they are arguing about.....
....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same
The Syrian civil was is a direct consequence of the "Arab Spring", which the West encoraged to get rid of dictators... like Libya or Egypt, for instance.
In Syria, the regime was stronger so the US and its allies supported the Rebel Alliance before the Russians stepped in...
There is blame to be apportioned to Western governments, as well as regional ones.
You truly believe that the West has that big an influence in the middle east and you seem to forget that there are other "actors" at play..... Well, I know a little different dear Joe, but I would hate to fall out with the liberal press on this one.... so I will retire from this thread if its all the same...... Where the Arab Spring came from is not where you think...."The whole phenomenon is basically the unraveling of the post-WWI settlement imposed on the Middle East, if you want to take it back further... | |||
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"But not Syrians?. Regardless of who's to blame, it still doesn't warrant or justify what's happening in Syria right now. ". The problem with liberals is they deal with hope on a day to day basis, they hope for humanity, they hope for less violence, racism, sexisim... All they ever do is hope,i can't remember who said it but hope is dealing with delusions, it's dealing in what ifs and maybes... If only we'd learn our lesson, it's safe to say after 2000 years of butchering one another for land, resources, money, power and invisible friends.... That's got jack shit chance of occurring. What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope | |||
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" ....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same" Why do you think the West supported the rebels? Do you think this would have carried on more than a few days or weeks without that western support? Do you remember what happened in Bahrain? What factors do you think created ISIS? Sadly our hands are not clean. We've been fighting a proxy war and are on the verge of losing it. We should be ashamed of many of the decisions we've made in the middle east over the past few decades. It's not all our fault but a good amount of it is. The Arab spring....winter of discontent more like! | |||
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"Some very distressing twitter feeds emerging ........ It has been going on for months and months... but it takes social media or a photo of a dead child before nice white people say, "That's terrible!" :/ That's a little unfair and a little "blinkered" Joe..... You aren't the only person in the world with a conscience and last I checked, The United Kingdom and other "Western" nations weren't comprised solely of white people..... Quite disappointed in this comment from you.. I was thinking specifically of the migrant crisis in the Aegean and a photo of a dead child that suddenly made the press, and us, say "Someone really should do something about these brown people."" . Yeah that's true, the world just rushed forward with solutions and money for all those white people in the former Yugoslavia when they butchering themselves? Didn't we? Wait we didn't and we started it because there's loads of oil there isn't there?....I mean it's not like the US government wrote a report on what would happen in Yugoslavia if you removed the confines stopping the horribleness....a year before we did it?. | |||
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" ....you know this is true when it devolves into "well it's the wests' fault".... It isn't, but we will take the blame all the same Why do you think the West supported the rebels? Do you think this would have carried on more than a few days or weeks without that western support? Do you remember what happened in Bahrain? What factors do you think created ISIS? Sadly our hands are not clean. We've been fighting a proxy war and are on the verge of losing it. We should be ashamed of many of the decisions we've made in the middle east over the past few decades. It's not all our fault but a good amount of it is. The Arab spring....winter of discontent more like! " . Sometimes butchers like Saddam killing 300,000 people a year are the best option? | |||
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"But not Syrians?. Regardless of who's to blame, it still doesn't warrant or justify what's happening in Syria right now. .
The problem with liberals is they deal with hope on a day to day basis, they hope for humanity, they hope for less violence, racism, sexisim...
All they ever do is hope,i can't remember who said it but hope is dealing with delusions, it's dealing in what ifs and maybes... If only we'd learn our lesson, it's safe to say after 2000 years of butchering one another for land, resources, money, power and invisible friends.... That's got jack shit chance of occurring.
What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope"We have all the reality we need and we are dealing with the problem....but for many of us it simply isn't good enough. I hope for better. That won't change. | |||
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"But not Syrians?. Regardless of who's to blame, it still doesn't warrant or justify what's happening in Syria right now. .
The problem with liberals is they deal with hope on a day to day basis, they hope for humanity, they hope for less violence, racism, sexisim...
All they ever do is hope,i can't remember who said it but hope is dealing with delusions, it's dealing in what ifs and maybes... If only we'd learn our lesson, it's safe to say after 2000 years of butchering one another for land, resources, money, power and invisible friends.... That's got jack shit chance of occurring.
What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope
We have all the reality we need and we are dealing with the problem....but for many of us it simply isn't good enough.
I hope for better. That won't change.
". Life' a bitch, don't worry so much, most of them have absolute belief that there going somewhere better anyhow!. There just getting there faster than the rest of us | |||
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"..... What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope We have all the reality we need and we are dealing with the problem....but for many of us it simply isn't good enough. I hope for better. That won't change. . Life' a bitch, don't worry so much, most of them have absolute belief that there going somewhere better anyhow!. There just getting there faster than the rest of us" The old them and us....I guess one of the key differences between my position and yours is that I empathise with those being killed because I see myself as a civilian too. I just happen to have been born in England and not Syria. I'm embarrassed that my leaders have made decisions that have resulted in these people 'just getting there faster than the rest of us'. | |||
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"..... What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope We have all the reality we need and we are dealing with the problem....but for many of us it simply isn't good enough. I hope for better. That won't change. . Life' a bitch, don't worry so much, most of them have absolute belief that there going somewhere better anyhow!. There just getting there faster than the rest of us The old them and us....I guess one of the key differences between my position and yours is that I empathise with those being killed because I see myself as a civilian too. I just happen to have been born in England and not Syria. I'm embarrassed that my leaders have made decisions that have resulted in these people 'just getting there faster than the rest of us'. " . You'll find no them and us from me I'm afraid... Turn the power off in this country and see how long it takes to descend into chaos?. Let's deal in reality remember not wishful thinking | |||
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"..... What we need right now is less hope and more reality even if the reality isn't good, let's learn to deal with that problem rather than some far off mystical utopian hope We have all the reality we need and we are dealing with the problem....but for many of us it simply isn't good enough. I hope for better. That won't change. . Life' a bitch, don't worry so much, most of them have absolute belief that there going somewhere better anyhow!. There just getting there faster than the rest of us The old them and us....I guess one of the key differences between my position and yours is that I empathise with those being killed because I see myself as a civilian too. I just happen to have been born in England and not Syria. I'm embarrassed that my leaders have made decisions that have resulted in these people 'just getting there faster than the rest of us'. . You'll find no them and us from me I'm afraid... Turn the power off in this country and see how long it takes to descend into chaos?. Let's deal in reality remember not wishful thinking" Totally agree doors
We really are only as civilised as the systems which keep things in order. Disrupt even our nations food supply chain and see what happens. | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea "It must be a bitch being right all the time?  | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea
It must be a bitch being right all the time? ". I'm only right in my head.... When I say it out loud it doesn't sound as good | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... " Shame on those MP's that voted we should go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq to affect regime change and have destabilised both countries to the point of failed states..... Discussions eh? | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea
It must be a bitch being right all the time? .
I'm only right in my head.... When I say it out loud it doesn't sound as good "Both are, I'm afraid, are a matter of opinion.  | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... Shame on those MP's that voted we should go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq to affect regime change and have destabilised both countries to the point of failed states..... Discussions eh?" I'm not saying two wrongs make a right  | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea "That's a very ignorant statement Doors. | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea
That's a very ignorant statement Doors. ". Soz | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... " I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. " I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution ..... | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast." That hope doesn't exist the same way it used to, I think. Disspointment in humanity will be the marker of the 21st century.  | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. That hope doesn't exist the same way it used to, I think. Disspointment in humanity will be the marker of the 21st century. ". Disappointment is surely better, we tried and failed, that's not a bad thing, hope means we just wished for things to be better... That's sad because we didn't even try. | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution ..... "I understand your point but Russia and Iran were always likely to side with Assad to maintain their long-term strategic alliance. The only reason Iraq and then Afghanistan were initially seen as easy options for war is because they had no allies. The US has been desperate to destabilise Iran and Syria for decades. | |||
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"Yeah I can see where this hope in humanity is getting us!. Nowhere fast. For all the fucking moaning about Victorian colonialism it did at least bring stability to unstable places!.... Now Joe keep calm and drink tea
That's a very ignorant statement Doors. .
Soz "I respect your apology, thank you for making it. | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution .....
I understand your point but Russia and Iran were always likely to side with Assad to maintain their long-term strategic alliance.
The only reason Iraq and then Afghanistan were initially seen as easy options for war is because they had no allies. The US has been desperate to destabilise Iran and Syria for decades."I just heard Boris acknowledge criticism of the decision for no British involvement with the words ..... you must shape the world you want to live in or the world shapes you... | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution .....
I understand your point but Russia and Iran were always likely to side with Assad to maintain their long-term strategic alliance.
The only reason Iraq and then Afghanistan were initially seen as easy options for war is because they had no allies. The US has been desperate to destabilise Iran and Syria for decades.
I just heard Boris acknowledge criticism of the decision for no British involvement with the words ..... you must shape the world you want to live in or the world shapes you... "We have shaped this crisis by backing the rebels and not for their benefit but for ours. | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution .....
I understand your point but Russia and Iran were always likely to side with Assad to maintain their long-term strategic alliance.
The only reason Iraq and then Afghanistan were initially seen as easy options for war is because they had no allies. The US has been desperate to destabilise Iran and Syria for decades.
I just heard Boris acknowledge criticism of the decision for no British involvement with the words ..... you must shape the world you want to live in or the world shapes you...
We have shaped this crisis by backing the rebels and not for their benefit but for ours. "The Americans wasted half a billion dollars on training and equipping the so-called moderate opposition. | |||
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"Shame on those MP's who voted Britain should watch from the side-line and allow the cruel referee of fate decide which child lives and which child dies..... I agreed with parliaments decision at the time. I didn't, although at the time I hoped the threat of our involvement would have increased the pressure for a peaceful solution .....
I understand your point but Russia and Iran were always likely to side with Assad to maintain their long-term strategic alliance.
The only reason Iraq and then Afghanistan were initially seen as easy options for war is because they had no allies. The US has been desperate to destabilise Iran and Syria for decades.
I just heard Boris acknowledge criticism of the decision for no British involvement with the words ..... you must shape the world you want to live in or the world shapes you...
We have shaped this crisis by backing the rebels and not for their benefit but for ours.
The Americans wasted half a billion dollars on training and equipping the so-called moderate opposition.". Now we're on the same wave length. There is no moderate opposition in Syria, there's crazies vs really crazies. I'm pretty sure the 500 million dollars could have been better spent in Jordan on Syrian refugees. . We could have paid China to let them use some of those city's they've built which are standing there empty? | |||
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