FabSwingers.com forum: Should Scientists be Atheist?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

We are led to believe that the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists.

Is it consistent with the scientific approach to be atheist?

If you are atheist what do you base your belief on.

This thread is not intended to be about religion or the merits or not of any of the major religions or their teachings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not an atheist but I love science.

Mrs

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

[Removed by poster at 07/12/16 15:05:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kellyoakes/scientists-and-faith?utm_term=.ixyMMJ6nx#.qlOllP3qp

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

I was inaccurate just then.....what I meant was a scientist can have a faith or be agnostic, but he cannot in all honesty be an atheist, because that requires a belief in an unproven position.

I shall look forward to this thread later when I have some time!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was inaccurate just then.....what I meant was a scientist can have a faith or be agnostic, but he cannot in all honesty be an atheist, because that requires a belief in an unproven position.

I shall look forward to this thread later when I have some time!!

I think you have a misunderstanding of what an Atheist is.

Atheism is about a lack of belief

I am an Atheist as a result of things I have learned through scientific discoveries.

Interestingly though, Professor Stephen Hawking is not an Atheist - he still believes in God, despite almost proving that such an entity does not exist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

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By *ikki ShooterTV/TS
over a year ago

Epsom

Be a pagan they have all the best parties x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like anyone else as long as they can consolidate their religious beliefs with their professional/personal beliefs I'm fine with that

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

A lot of Christians celebrate May Day....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are led to believe that the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists.

Is it consistent with the scientific approach to be atheist?"

Depends how you define Atheism. "Lack of belief" is one option which is entirely consistent with scientific approach. "Certain there is no god" probably less so.

There are a lot of religious scientists, as most of the time there's no direct conflict between the two outlooks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. I don't see why being Christian would make me a less competent scientist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe that prof Brian Cox once said that "There is a nativity in saying there is no God."

I'm an atheist, but I adhere to that quote. But I also think it is foolish o believe in any of the established Abrahamic faith.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I was inaccurate just then.....what I meant was a scientist can have a faith or be agnostic, but he cannot in all honesty be an atheist, because that requires a belief in an unproven position.

I shall look forward to this thread later when I have some time!!

I think you have a misunderstanding of what an Atheist is.

Atheism is about a lack of belief

I am an Atheist as a result of things I have learned through scientific discoveries.

Interestingly though, Professor Stephen Hawking is not an Atheist - he still believes in God, despite almost proving that such an entity does not exist."

What do you mean by 'lack of belief'? Do you mean you don't believe or only believe a little?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe that prof Brian Cox once said that "There is a nativity in saying there is no God."

I'm an atheist, but I adhere to that quote. But I also think it is foolish o believe in any of the established Abrahamic faith."

Surely you mean 'naivety'

Nativity is the whole Christmas school play thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

I'm not one of them.

Would consider myself a hypocrite to do so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

I'm not one of them.

Would consider myself a hypocrite to do so."

Faa-lalalala-lala-lala-laa

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"We are led to believe that the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists.

Is it consistent with the scientific approach to be atheist?

Depends how you define Atheism. "Lack of belief" is one option which is entirely consistent with scientific approach. "Certain there is no god" probably less so.

Ah right - that's what I meant - those who demonstrate a strong faith in there being no god! Some atheist are incredibly dogmatic and have a totally blind faith in a negative!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Why should a belief in God, stop you from being a good scientist?

Scientists do a huge amount of things from making new paints, to studying the mating behaviors of badgers, to studying sleep patterns, creating the next version of WiFi, or what kind of fuel do we need to send a man to Mars.

I don't see why those would stop you believing in God.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We are led to believe that the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists.

Is it consistent with the scientific approach to be atheist?

Depends how you define Atheism. "Lack of belief" is one option which is entirely consistent with scientific approach. "Certain there is no god" probably less so.

There are a lot of religious scientists, as most of the time there's no direct conflict between the two outlooks. "

If someone has never considered the question of whether their is a God or not then I can understand their position as one which has a lack of belief.

I am though confused by how lack of belief can be an option if the question has been considered and a decision made to choose atheist as opposed to theist or agnostic.

What is your understanding of 'lack of belief'?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

*there

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By *orkie321bWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I was inaccurate just then.....what I meant was a scientist can have a faith or be agnostic, but he cannot in all honesty be an atheist, because that requires a belief in an unproven position.

I shall look forward to this thread later when I have some time!!

I think you have a misunderstanding of what an Atheist is.

Atheism is about a lack of belief

I am an Atheist as a result of things I have learned through scientific discoveries.

Interestingly though, Professor Stephen Hawking is not an Atheist - he still believes in God, despite almost proving that such an entity does not exist."

I always understood atheism wasn't a lack of belief, rather a categorical belief that there is no god.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah but you rarely hear scientists claim to have burnt some atheist toast,,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they can be anything they want they just shouldn't let their religious beliefs guide they're science

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1.2 billon Muslims , zero Nobel prizes.

16 million Jews ,197 Nobel prizes.

Doesn't look good does it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

plenty of scientists are religious. some are trying to prove there's an afterlife, some are trying to prove how the world was created by a god (big bang theory is a part of that).

there are loads of sciences as well and having a faith in god would not impact on research.

so no you don't need to be an athiest to research science or create scientific theories.

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

i like your

comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having watch a number of documentaries on how the universe became, it gets said time and time again that the universe came out of nothing. Before the Big Bang there was nothing. I'm sure an expert physicist might understand how to get something out of nothing better than I do. But the only way I can understand the concept of there being nothing (including time) before the Big Bang, and why the Big Bang all of a sudden happened for no apparent reason, is to believe in some sort of divine intervention. Surely only God can create something out of nothing. I accept that science has proved that aspects of the Bible, especially the Old Testiment, can't really be taken literally. But I don't think science has disproved everything that those with faith believe. I also don't feel that a believe in God means that the laws of science and mathematics should be rejected.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1.2 billon Muslims , zero Nobel prizes.

16 million Jews ,197 Nobel prizes.

Doesn't look good does it"

Probably an accurate reflection of our Western societies tendency to rate white people higher than people of colour.

So no, that doesn't look good. For the Nobel Prize awarding committee.

Especially since our source of Western knowledge has largely developed from the Arabic and Chinese world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Surely only God can create something out of nothing"

That in itself is no proof of God, after all of that was the case you'd need a god to create that God, and a God to create that God... All we can really say about that point is "Something we don't yet understand happened"

"Lack of belief" probably what I have. There is no strong evidence for God but if some turns up tomorrow I'm not going to deny it. In the meantime I'm not going to follow some rules someone has said God made.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"We are led to believe that the overwhelming majority of scientists are atheists.

Is it consistent with the scientific approach to be atheist?"

It is possible and those who believe think it not inconsistent, clearly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/24535331

\thread

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Mrs JFL's a scientist (chemist, analytical not pharmaceutical) and while she does not believe in 'God' per se, she still has a certain amount of faith in there being 'something' beyond the dimension we live this life in.

Me, I'm a social-scientist and pragmatically agnostic!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I an atheist and many scientist have a belief amd many dont some are atheists or agnostic.It's a free choice.Atheism however isn't a belief.If atheism is a belief then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/12/16 16:49:42]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

I'm not one of them.

Would consider myself a hypocrite to do so."
Actually xmas is a pagan mid winter festival.Which the early church had no part in and hated.So why Christians think it's their festival is bizarre .

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

I'm an atheist too thank god

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"There appears to be a whole lot of atheists celebrating Christmas.....

I'm not one of them.

Would consider myself a hypocrite to do so. Actually xmas is a pagan mid winter festival.Which the early church had no part in and hated.So why Christians think it's their festival is bizarre ."

Well, the Christians encompassed that festival into their system, so it fitted with what was happening at the time.

It can be a traditional christian celebration if you are that way inclined.

Or it can be a holiday to relax and have fun with family and friends if you are that way inclined.

Should be easy enough for everybody to be happy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Surely only God can create something out of nothing"

Absalutely. It is not proof of the existence of God. But it is a gap in scientific knowledge that could be explained by a number of ideas, including divine intervention. Nobody yet knows either way.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"1.2 billon Muslims , zero Nobel prizes.

16 million Jews ,197 Nobel prizes.

Doesn't look good does it"

Do you get a Nobel prize from being from a culture that basically invented maths?

Clearly not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe that prof Brian Cox once said that "There is a nativity in saying there is no God."

I'm an atheist, but I adhere to that quote. But I also think it is foolish o believe in any of the established Abrahamic faith.

Surely you mean 'naivety'

Nativity is the whole Christmas school play thing

Haha yes, I made a pretty bad typo there

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 07/12/16 17:15:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

"I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"1.2 billon Muslims , zero Nobel prizes.

16 million Jews ,197 Nobel prizes.

Doesn't look good does it

Do you get a Nobel prize from being from a culture that basically invented maths?

Clearly not.

"
.

Of course you don't, you get it for individual or group work on sciences!.

I think you've hit the proverbial nail though, how does an entire people and culture go backwards, what driving force could possibly do it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

"I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research" "
Einstein as you quoted believed in a pantheist god not a personal god as in the Abrahamic tradition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ponder this, if you will

Science!

IS! GOD!

Science created the earth, and the earth cooled and and it was good, science gave us the light.

Science is the deity scientists the priests and the devil? Ignorance of course, there is no sin greater than ignorance.

All of the sciences are slowly unravelling the mysteries of the universe, giving us a true and meaningful way to live our lives, so I am a believer, I believe in science, and science loves me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

"I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research" "
.

You mean spiritual?.

Religious feeling, which religion, they all say different things? Are they all right, bits of all of them, most of all of them!.

Religion is a human construct, we've gone nine tenths of our existence without them.... You couldn't say the same about spirituality,i think we've always looked to the stars and wondered but that's far far away from a religion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No it shouldn't be a standard requirement, Atheism develops naturally from observing the universe and trying to understand it's rules. If someone claims to scientist when they're a Creationist, be wary of their research, it has almost certainly been skewed to protect their personal beliefs - see the 'Discovery Institute' of 'Christian Science' (Oxymoron) and the pathetic cunts involved in it.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically."

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

I am an engineer, and also non-religious. But the aspect I find hardest to accept in these discussions is the willingness to attempt to drag down other peoples beliefs. Why is it such a bad thing to let them just get on with it??

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

"I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research" Einstein as you quoted believed in a pantheist god not a personal god as in the Abrahamic tradition."

That was one interview at the end of his life - it is arguably not reflective of his life's work nor revealing of an underlying religious belief.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plenty of science teachers are religious and believe in God/s.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ponder this, if you will

Science!

IS! GOD!

Science created the earth, and the earth cooled and and it was good, science gave us the light.

Science is the deity scientists the priests and the devil? Ignorance of course, there is no sin greater than ignorance.

All of the sciences are slowly unravelling the mysteries of the universe, giving us a true and meaningful way to live our lives, so I am a believer, I believe in science, and science loves me

"
Amen!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

That was one interview at the end of his life - it is arguably not reflective of his life's work nor revealing of an underlying religious belief. "
I would argue after a lifetime that is the position he ended up at.Maybe if he knew the things we know today it would be different. It's a progressive thing this life.Who knows but he is a favourite person for people of faith to wheel out in their defence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I an atheist and many scientist have a belief amd many dont some are atheists or agnostic.It's a free choice.Atheism however isn't a belief.If atheism is a belief then not collecting stamps is a hobby."

It is inconclusive whether a deity exists or not. Therefore a conscious decision to choose one side of the debate or the other can only be a belief in that chosen position.

The middle ground is already populated by agnostics!

I can lick a stamp, so for the purposes of this debate we can both agree on the existence of stamps, that's a poor example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can lick a stamp, so for the purposes of this debate we can both agree on the existence of stamps, that's a poor example."

No it has been officially recognised that Atheism is a non belief - it's the same as not making a choice being a choice itself, but still not an actual 'choice' as we would define in.

Basically, the questions that are required to justify a religion beyond a personal context, are not relevant to Atheism.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

It is inconclusive whether a deity exists or not. Therefore a conscious decision to choose one side of the debate or the other can only be a belief in that chosen position.

The middle ground is already populated by agnostics!

I can lick a stamp, so for the purposes of this debate we can both agree on the existence of stamps, that's a poor example."

If I told you there's a chocolate teapot orbiting Pluto would you believe me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

That doesn't mean he was an Atheist and who says I was talking about a personal God in Abrahamic tradition?

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

It is inconclusive whether a deity exists or not. Therefore a conscious decision to choose one side of the debate or the other can only be a belief in that chosen position.

The middle ground is already populated by agnostics!

I can lick a stamp, so for the purposes of this debate we can both agree on the existence of stamps, that's a poor example.

If I told you there's a chocolate teapot orbiting Pluto would you believe me?"

I would, but not if you told me there was a chocolate teapot orbiting Mercury

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In "Quantum Questions", Ken Wilber explores why scientists such as Einstein, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Jeans, Plank, Pauli and Eddington were all sympathetic to a mystical worldview.

To quote Einstein

That was one interview at the end of his life - it is arguably not reflective of his life's work nor revealing of an underlying religious belief. "

I'll come back on this at a later stage when I've done some more research

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By *lue NarwhalMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

I don't believe the scientific community have a greater percentage of atheists compared to the rest of society as a whole..

Just because you believe in the scientific creation of earth and evolution doesn't mean that you cant get comfort from a religious belief...

Religion as a whole has become less popular as generations have moved on..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is inconclusive whether a deity exists or not. Therefore a conscious decision to choose one side of the debate or the other can only be a belief in that chosen position.

The middle ground is already populated by agnostics!

I can lick a stamp, so for the purposes of this debate we can both agree on the existence of stamps, that's a poor example.

If I told you there's a chocolate teapot orbiting Pluto would you believe me?

I would, but not if you told me there was a chocolate teapot orbiting Mercury

"
Everyone knows it orbits the sun like all other objects between earth and mars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/12/16 18:25:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, because science wouldnt be what it is today.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I rarely take a position of belief , I prefer understanding

I do not believe that expansion from a singularity was the beginning of time however I understand the data and reasoning that leads some to that conclusion and why it is plausible

I do not believe anything that exists or ever has existed was designed by a sentient creator however I understand a little about the human psychology that leads some to that conclusion and why it's highly implausible

I don't think belief is required for newton's second law

I don't understand why so many feel that a non belief automatically means we hold a contrary view

For me none belief in a vast number of theories , concepts, and stories means I do not have enough collaborative data to articulate it as a fact within a context many of such I may conclude are plausible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The are scientists who have a faith and some who do not. Both will use science to try and prove their stand point. True evolution ist will not g ave a faith in God. True bible beliving Christians will not believe in evolution. The bible states that in the beining God cteated everything. Adam and Eve. Were the first created in human form. Everything was created by the word of God. Adam was moulded by the hand of God and life from the breath of God, the the spirit of God. No other living creature posseses the spirit og God. So we are set apart. There was no death until Adam sinned. Hence no creature had previously died. So Adam and Eve where human and lived at the same time as dianasores. Hence back to my first statement. See creative ministries for further information. .

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Exactly, it's the antagonism that is so fascinating. I know someone who used to go on alt.atheist and wind them all up by arguing that their very antagonism toward God was evidence he did indeed exist - as indifference would be a far ore normal response to a total fallacy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"The are scientists who have a faith and some who do not. Both will use science to try and prove their stand point. True evolution ist will not g ave a faith in God. True bible beliving Christians will not believe in evolution. The bible states that in the beining God cteated everything. Adam and Eve. Were the first created in human form. Everything was created by the word of God. Adam was moulded by the hand of God and life from the breath of God, the the spirit of God. No other living creature posseses the spirit og God. So we are set apart. There was no death until Adam sinned. Hence no creature had previously died. So Adam and Eve where human and lived at the same time as dianasores. Hence back to my first statement. See creative ministries for further information. .

Many bible believing Christians believe in evolution - just not random evolution.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

It's an ambiguous term - define what you mean perhaps?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many bible believing Christians believe in evolution - just not random evolution."
.

The pope and the Vatican for starters, anybody sane does, it's the best set of evidence we've got

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?"

The us government usually

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely claiming to know the answer one way or another simply defines our own stupidity,,,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance."
.

Them pesky aliens

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance..

Them pesky aliens

They have a lot to answer for.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance."
We can to date trace our ancestry to 3.5 billion years ago to out last common ancestor which all life on earth originates.Known as LUCA.

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By *entenTeaCouple
over a year ago

Buckley North Wales

We both have science/engineering backgrounds. I my field is mix of science and engineering underpinned with statistics. Yet we have no problem reconcilling science and faith. We're Christians be it somewhat liberal ones.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance. We can to date trace our ancestry to 3.5 billion years ago to out last common ancestor which all life on earth originates.Known as LUCA."

The thread is about, do scientists have to be athiest. Not if creationism is true. Very big difference.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance. We can to date trace our ancestry to 3.5 billion years ago to out last common ancestor which all life on earth originates.Known as LUCA."

So? I laughed when the geneticists announced that every woman alive on the planet today was related to one women - but her name was not Eve!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

It's an ambiguous term - define what you mean perhaps?"

To me it means that you believe that the Bible is literal and don't interpret it metaphorically. That the world is actually only a few thousand years old and that Eve is made from Adam's rib and that their sons and daughters committed incest and that's how we got there.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

""random evolution" what on earth is random evolution? Not sure anyone believes in random evolution

That's what most people mean - evolution via random mutation. But '7-day-creationism' is not the only other view, many people believe that evolution might not have been down to pure chance."

Pure chance

I think one might find many understand the concept of natural selection. Of course within this powerful evolutionary mechanism randomness has indeed played a roll and is clearly evidenced I cite a fucking big lump of rock smashing into the planet more than once as one such random event

I can't say I'm aware of anything suggesting it had been orchestrated by sentience , even the process of selecting naturally has nothing to suggest it was designed more a serendipitous logical inevitability of matter and energy over time

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

It's an ambiguous term - define what you mean perhaps?

So, how does that stop you being a rocket scientist?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?"

What would stop them? They reject scientific evidence, genetics and geology. lf you think the world is a few thousand years old and you interpret the Bible with absolute literalism, you aren't a scientist because you reject overwhelming evidence and are trying to find evidence to fit your world view and not using evidence to form it.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

I am not religious at all, and I am an engineer, so have no axe to grind. My gripe is people trying to force their opinions on others or bring down other peoples beliefs. Why is it so bad if good people do good things and also have religious beliefs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Things that make you go hmmmm.Adam and Eve were the first people on earth and had 2 sons...

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"No, they can have whatever religion they like - unless they are fundamentalists because that can't be reconciled scientifically.

They can, because you don't know what they believe or how they reconcile the two.

For example why would being a rocket scientist negate any religious belief?

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

It's an ambiguous term - define what you mean perhaps?

No, it doesn't mean that, I know fundamentalist Christians who do not believe he Bible is literal in that sense, I think only a few extreme Americans do! Many believe that it is true but open to misinterpretation - for instance 'days' in the creation account I have heard can be translated 'warm period' and could easily mean thousands of years between ice ages or something!!

I once saw a fascinating programme on natural phenomenon that could easily explain things like rivers turning to blood' (blooms of red algae) or fish falling from the sky or whatever.....

A lot of 'fundamentalist' Christians are totally happy to accept that there is no conflict, without understanding all the hows and whys.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Physicist here and open minded. Studied quantum mechanics, cosmology and other aspects of physics.

Not a supporter of main stream religion but open minded enough to support any possibility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Being an atheist isn't a requirement however I would probably question the scientists competence and professionalism if they believed in such a ridiculous idea

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/12/16 19:26:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Things that make you go hmmmm.Adam and Eve were the first people on earth and had 2 sons...

So God created mankind in his own image,

in the image of God he created them;

male and female he created them. gen 1:27

them.

eve was only created later on from adams rib in gen 2 21, 22

So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[a] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[b] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

contradicts itself anyway but you get the gist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I once saw a fascinating programme on natural phenomenon that could easily explain things like rivers turning to blood' (blooms of red algae) or fish falling from the sky or whatever.....

A lot of 'fundamentalist' Christians are totally happy to accept that there is no conflict, without understanding all the hows and whys."

Then they aren't fundamentalists.

fundamentalism [noun] A form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of

scripture: ‘there was religious pluralism there at a time when the rest of Europe was torn by fundamentalism’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fundamentalism

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism."

It's not splitting hairs. There are huge swathes of science where the bible would make no difference, allowing a fundamentalist to be a good scientist in his/her field. There are even more fields that a milder religious person could work in.

You do not need to be an atheist to be a scientist.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism."

Your misunderstanding of fundamentalism though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Your misunderstanding of fundamentalism though."

No. l don't.

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By *imited 3EditionCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism."

Do you mean to say you expect a scientist to apply the scientific method to every aspect of their life?

I know many a project manager who fails to apply project management principles to managing every aspect of their life. Same will apply in countless other professions ..so why single out scientists?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Science has yet to prove or disprove there is a God but personally I don't believe in God but do believe in science and who knows one day someone will prove there is a God and faith will be restored to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Do you mean to say you expect a scientist to apply the scientific method to every aspect of their life?

I know many a project manager who fails to apply project management principles to managing every aspect of their life. Same will apply in countless other professions ..so why single out scientists? "

Not every aspect of life. You don't need it in making toast and tea, only for things that needs it.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Your misunderstanding of fundamentalism though.

No. l don't. "

I think you are taking it to mean a latterday American trend, not modern UK charistmatic Christians. All of those I ever met are perfectly happy with the concept of evolution, see no conflict between science and scripture, because they just believe evolution was guided.

In fact most that I know would say if ever there APPEARS to be a conflict then one or the other interpretation is incorrect - because there cannot be one.

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By *imited 3EditionCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Do you mean to say you expect a scientist to apply the scientific method to every aspect of their life?

I know many a project manager who fails to apply project management principles to managing every aspect of their life. Same will apply in countless other professions ..so why single out scientists?

Not every aspect of life. You don't need it in making toast and tea, only for things that needs it."

Such as? I'm a trained scientist with a PhD.. Please enlighten me as to where I am going wrong in my life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Your misunderstanding of fundamentalism though.

No. l don't.

In fact most that I know would say if ever there APPEARS to be a conflict then one or the other interpretation is incorrect - because there cannot be one."
A charismatic Christian would need to bin most of the old testament to fit with scientific understanding today.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I had hoped the thread would have minimal reference to religion.

My opening question was aimed at questioning the compatibility of a belief in the merits of the scientific method (specifically the need for evidence in order to draw a conclusion) and my understanding of the decision an atheist makes that there is no God.

I personally think that the scientific method is more compatible with an agnostic view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fair enough on the random evolution, never heard it called that before. The fittest surviving doesnt sound very random to me, though I suppose the mutation that makes you "fitter" is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Being an atheist isn't a requirement however I would probably question the scientists competence and professionalism if they believed in such a ridiculous idea "

If believing in the existence of God is a 'ridiculous' idea, then that is saying that some highly intelligent and educated people are foolish in one aspect of their thought process. I've come across many people in my life who have belief and faith. Most of these people are not ignorant or stupid people who make a habit of entertaining ridulous ideas. Many are hugely intelligent and educated. True, the existence of God hasn't yet been proven or disproven scientifically. But if someone who is highly educated and intelligent, especially if they are from a scientific background, should their view not be respected as opposed to described as ridiculous? Intelligent people don't flippantly make a habit of taking on ridulous ideas just for the fun of it.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you know what fundamentalist means?

Yes thanks. So what would stop a fundamentalist being a successful rocket scientist ?

A rocket scientist doesn't use geology or genetics. He needs to understand chemistry, and physics. He can do that and be ultra religious.

You aren't getting what l am saying and are splitting hairs with the rocket scientist thing; lt' irrelvent. lf you don't use the scientific method then you aren't a scientist.

l'm not bringing anyone's belief down, just highlighting the incompatibility between the scientific method and fundamentalism.

Do you mean to say you expect a scientist to apply the scientific method to every aspect of their life?

I know many a project manager who fails to apply project management principles to managing every aspect of their life. Same will apply in countless other professions ..so why single out scientists?

Not every aspect of life. You don't need it in making toast and tea, only for things that needs it.

Such as? I'm a trained scientist with a PhD.. Please enlighten me as to where I am going wrong in my life. "

Sucy as working in any job that requires it. Sad that you needed me to tell you that, Doctor.