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Adolf Hitler and WW2, a heavy topic maybe...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes a long time ago,,its utter shite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"yes a long time ago,,its utter shite"

It's content or how it's written?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of what drove hittler the way he was was to do with the treaty of versi and his hatered towards the Jews came from them having a better social standing than him and better jobs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Given that the government can now access absolutely everything you do on the Internet, there's probably already a membership ti the Tory party in the post to you

I say do it. It's because people don't try to understand 'the other side' that the world is in the mess it is...

Seriously though, you are probably on a list now

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Read it by all means, but to what end?

You can see what was done as a result of his views and rule.

Will reading the book make you think he wasn't insane ? 10's of millions of people died in horrific circumstances, the book makes no difference.

The distasteful aspect is that it seems to give the impression what he did can be justified or explained rationally.

MrB

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldn't dissuade anyone from reading it or suggest that by doing so enlightenment would shine through the dark shadow his existence cast over humanity .....

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

Same, although having last night watched downfall I might give it another read just to remined myself. Bit like going back to A Brief history of Time, I'll do it when I've nothing to do for a month or so

S

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes a long time ago,,its utter shite

It's content or how it's written? "

actually both.

it was written by Hitler but edited by Rudolf Hess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wouldn't dissuade anyone from reading it or suggest that by doing so enlightenment would shine through the dark shadow his existence cast over humanity .....

"

try "the art of pouting" by mikki maraschino,,its a rattling good read n over 150 glossy pics,,the ideal xmas pressie

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

[Removed by poster at 29/11/16 12:20:13]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Read it by all means, but to what end?

You can see what was done as a result of his views and rule.

Will reading the book make you think he wasn't insane ? 10's of millions of people died in horrific circumstances, the book makes no difference.

The distasteful aspect is that it seems to give the impression what he did can be justified or explained rationally.

MrB"

I'm not looking to see justification or explanations. I'm purely intrigued about how he viewed the world in his own words. Like I said in the OP looking at the war from both sides of the fence. From the very top of the command chain down to the men on the front line with the guns.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wouldn't dissuade anyone from reading it or suggest that by doing so enlightenment would shine through the dark shadow his existence cast over humanity .....

try "the art of pouting" by mikki maraschino,,its a rattling good read n over 150 glossy pics,,the ideal xmas pressie "

Too late....... I've already promised this years book token on a copy of "Uncle John's Biggest Ever Bathroom Reader"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Must admit that I've always had a thought that it might be an interesting read and insight to what eventually happened.

Without a doubt a monster but history is always on the side of the victor.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Read it by all means, but to what end?

You can see what was done as a result of his views and rule.

Will reading the book make you think he wasn't insane ? 10's of millions of people died in horrific circumstances, the book makes no difference.

The distasteful aspect is that it seems to give the impression what he did can be justified or explained rationally.

MrB

I'm not looking to see justification or explanations. I'm purely intrigued about how he viewed the world in his own words. Like I said in the OP looking at the war from both sides of the fence. From the very top of the command chain down to the men on the front line with the guns."

I don't mean you are trying to justify his actions, I'm saying that is what people see as the implication of reading the book.

If you are interested in the history then it's your choice obviously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/11/16 12:27:28]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it's distasteful - read what you want. I have a copy that was offered to me years ago but have never got around to reading it. I do wonder what people think when they see it on my bookshelf.

Never read it but have heard mix reactions - from people saying that he was actually quite an intelligent guy to people saying it's a load of shit.

One day I'll get around to reading it.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales


"Must admit that I've always had a thought that it might be an interesting read and insight to what eventually happened.

Without a doubt a monster but history is always on the side of the victor. "

All history is only ever written by the Victorious, many (I'm one of them) would argue there were not two wars, but one with a lull in between that couldn't possibly last due to the harshness of the Versailles Treaty, makes me wonder if even as it was signed those in power knew it too..

S

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think there's anything distasteful about reading it, although the militant far right do use it as a bible, so I probably wouldn't leave it on the coffee table.

There are fears that we maybe heading down the same road again in the not too distant future, so might be more relevant than we'd like to think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he also wrote Zweites buch oh and Mr tickle,,which went on to inspire the mr men books

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've read it. I think its important to read books that had a big influence on our history, whether that influence be good or bad. I didn't see any spark of genius in it or anything. It was a book with a flawed premise which lead to conclusions that are obvious to anyone who knows basic history. The insight into Hitler's thought process is interesting but also a bit obvious in hindsight.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Must admit that I've always had a thought that it might be an interesting read and insight to what eventually happened.

Without a doubt a monster but history is always on the side of the victor.

All history is only ever written by the Victorious, many (I'm one of them) would argue there were not two wars, but one with a lull in between that couldn't possibly last due to the harshness of the Versailles Treaty, makes me wonder if even as it was signed those in power knew it too..

S"

I wholeheartedly agree, world war part II started in 1919 after Versailles, maybe, just maybe the Americans were right at the time, heaven knows they haven't been since.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I havent read it, but I am intersted in the history of it, he did turn around the whole economy for the germans and everyone got jobs and the eu was build around his blueprint of it, for one super state to rule, he is a good painter too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I havent read it, but I am intersted in the history of it, he did turn around the whole economy for the germans and everyone got jobs and the eu was build around his blueprint of it, for one super state to rule, he is a good painter too."

eh no he was a terrible painter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh and that moustache,,,ffs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I havent read it, but I am intersted in the history of it, he did turn around the whole economy for the germans and everyone got jobs and the eu was build around his blueprint of it, for one super state to rule, he is a good painter too."

I don't know about that Shag. I've heard theories that most of his anger came from his failure as an artist. If only he had been allowed into the Institute of Fine Arts in Vienna maybe history would have been quite different.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Some really interesting points of view from all of you. Thank you, I knew you'd offer up thought provoking opinions.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Yes; I have read it;

In depth.

Plus lots about him.

It is interesting; it is useful to understand his motivations .

The first part is largely autobiographical; but you need to read the whole book in conjunction with a range of biographies; several of his " versions of himself differ from reality.

You also need to read it in the context in which it was written; Germany post WW1, its political and economic issues; and his experience in WW1 as a ( not very good) soldier who hated the officer class.

Hitler was a populist who went against the " establishment " and conventional politicians ; and fought against the other European nations ( that he saw as united against Germany) singled out the Jews as the driving force behind Germany's problems.

He used his rhetoric and tapped into the disaffected German working mens' feelings of despair . As such, he commanded great respect at first ; offering a renewed pride in Germany and its potential future.

It is interesting to understand this; and reflect on emerging nationalism traits and " anti-establishment " politics recently.

The same drives and ways of phrasing things are evident. The difference is that Hitler was an angry and bitter working class man; the current batch of " anti establishment " politicians are not angry, nor poor or working class, but rich opportunists.

As a book; it's not very good; it's polemic, somewhat rambling, and contradictory in some places. It does lose something in translation, you need one of the English annotated translations that explain how some of the German phases have alternative nuance in translation.

Many parts seem very logical, even sensible, and plausible, depending how you interpret them. others are bizarre, and very disturbing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd be curious to read it, but serial killers and the psychology behind it fascinates me anyway. Make of that what you will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've read it as part of my studies. I can't say it made much of an impression on me. There's certainly nothing distasteful in reading it though, in my view.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'd be curious to read it, but serial killers and the psychology behind it fascinates me anyway. Make of that what you will."

That's a topic I've always thought about delving into, but usually end up looking at silly cat videos on the web instead of searching out material on the subject.

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one. "

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our Queen is not aware of all that happens in her country. The slumps the poverty or the way many of her subjects live wondering where the next meal is coming from. So I wonder if Adolf Hitler knew all that was happening when he was in power. ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read it. Not much has stuck in my mind, other than that most of it was drivel which gave little insight.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school. "

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Our Queen is not aware of all that happens in her country. The slumps the poverty or the way many of her subjects live wondering where the next meal is coming from. So I wonder if Adolf Hitler knew all that was happening when he was in power. ?"

eh?

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

The book is drivel,

His political films give a greater insight into the mentality of the man, relating the Jews to vermin in a particularly vile and graphic way..

If the man could be summed up by one word, it would end in "path"..

There is no justification for his or the actions of those fanatics that followed him, the political appetite for his type of hatred was ripe at that time and unfortunately he got into power through means of violence and preaching of hatred to a poverty stricken country as an answer to all of their problems.

What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and had the effort and resources he rallied been put to a good use instead of that of power gain and evil, he probably would have gone down in history as the greatest leader ever..

Unfortunately he chose the pathway of evil and millions suffered or died because of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony "

he was,nt rejected by the army,,he served in the german army during world war 1 and won the iron cross

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Read it OP but as you do bare in mind that it, its author and what we call WW2 were the products of an unfinished WW1 that left an angry Germany where neither the armies or civilian population will to fight or belief in their eventual victory had been broken (although defeat was inevitable by November 1918).

I would also recommend reading Das Kapital, Chairman Mao's Little Red Book, and The Wealth of Nations. As I would say these 4 books have been pivotal in shaping our modern world.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony

he was,nt rejected by the army,,he served in the german army during world war 1 and won the iron cross"

He got rejected by the Austrian army; he failed the physical exam How he got into the Bavarian army (who are not Germans either ) is beyond me

He wasn't German; he was a wannabe German

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony

he was,nt rejected by the army,,he served in the german army during world war 1 and won the iron cross

He got rejected by the Austrian army; he failed the physical exam How he got into the Bavarian army (who are not Germans either ) is beyond me

He wasn't German; he was a wannabe German "

eh,,germanic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony

he was,nt rejected by the army,,he served in the german army during world war 1 and won the iron cross"

He was a messenger. He bigged it up later.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"From what I heard he went looney after being rejected from an art school.

I thought he went loony after he got rejected by the Army. One thing most can agree on; he went loony

he was,nt rejected by the army,,he served in the german army during world war 1 and won the iron cross

He got rejected by the Austrian army; he failed the physical exam How he got into the Bavarian army (who are not Germans either ) is beyond me

He wasn't German; he was a wannabe German

eh,,germanic"

Depends what you mean by " German":

" the German Confederation"

" German Empire"

" Weimar Republic"

All of which were a federation of different numbers of partially autonomous states ( as is Federal Germany today).

So "German" difficult to define; Germanic; yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Our Queen is not aware of all that happens in her country. The slumps the poverty or the way many of her subjects live wondering where the next meal is coming from. So I wonder if Adolf Hitler knew all that was happening when he was in power. ?"

Of course he was aware of it, the Holocause was deliberately orchestrated. By him. Whatever you think of the Queen, she's not engaged in deliberately trying to kill her subjects. The comparison is so meaningless it's laughable.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner


"Seriously though, you are probably on a list now "

For googling a book you can buy in Waterstones? I seriously doubt it.

I found a copy under the bed in a house I rented as a student. I'd sum it up as 'turgid'.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C"

I'm sorry but what the f do you mean it was there with "their blessing"? No matter what the book i or contains it is not banned and therefore nobody should be asked or be giving approval for a book to a public library.

Allow certain groups or individuals to chose who's books are or are not in a public library and you are one step towards having bonfires of books.

I can remember an episode of the Waltons where John Boy was branded a Nazi for stopping a German book burning, a brave woman took a book from the burning pile and started to read from it, in German.......she then switched to English and we found she had saved a Bible from the fire.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down! "

You'll be pleased to know, I've no interest in becoming a next generation, card carrying Nazi.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down! "

Everyone has the right to have an open mind and not to have to make up their minds before reading something or based on the opinions of others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read it and found it pretty tedious. His second book 'Mein Kampfy Chair' wasn't much better!

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By *atcoupleCouple
over a year ago

Suffolk - East Anglia


"The book is drivel,

His political films give a greater insight into the mentality of the man, relating the Jews to vermin in a particularly vile and graphic way..

If the man could be summed up by one word, it would end in "path"..

There is no justification for his or the actions of those fanatics that followed him, the political appetite for his type of hatred was ripe at that time and unfortunately he got into power through means of violence and preaching of hatred to a poverty stricken country as an answer to all of their problems.

What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and had the effort and resources he rallied been put to a good use instead of that of power gain and evil, he probably would have gone down in history as the greatest leader ever..

Unfortunately he chose the pathway of evil and millions suffered or died because of it.

"

Agreed. Apparently the book is as boring as f****. I wouldn't give it house room. What happened to the Jews was unforgiveable and any written thoughts from mad evil person should be consigned to the bin.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down!

Everyone has the right to have an open mind and not to have to make up their minds before reading something or based on the opinions of others"

That is right and it is nothing wrong to think he have a point either there as we all form an opinion of it.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down!

Everyone has the right to have an open mind and not to have to make up their minds before reading something or based on the opinions of others

That is right and it is nothing wrong to think he have a point either there as we all form an opinion of it."

^ Can everyone just take a moment to reflect on this post.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

[Removed by poster at 29/11/16 15:43:35]

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Ok. Back to the OP's original question Mein Kampf and der Führer's mental state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The book is drivel,

His political films give a greater insight into the mentality of the man, relating the Jews to vermin in a particularly vile and graphic way..

If the man could be summed up by one word, it would end in "path"..

There is no justification for his or the actions of those fanatics that followed him, the political appetite for his type of hatred was ripe at that time and unfortunately he got into power through means of violence and preaching of hatred to a poverty stricken country as an answer to all of their problems.

What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and had the effort and resources he rallied been put to a good use instead of that of power gain and evil, he probably would have gone down in history as the greatest leader ever..

Unfortunately he chose the pathway of evil and millions suffered or died because of it.

Agreed. Apparently the book is as boring as f****. I wouldn't give it house room. What happened to the Jews was unforgiveable and any written thoughts from mad evil person should be consigned to the bin."

Actually, no. We should all learn from history.

Though it is indeed a crap book.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The book is drivel,

His political films give a greater insight into the mentality of the man, relating the Jews to vermin in a particularly vile and graphic way..

If the man could be summed up by one word, it would end in "path"..

There is no justification for his or the actions of those fanatics that followed him, the political appetite for his type of hatred was ripe at that time and unfortunately he got into power through means of violence and preaching of hatred to a poverty stricken country as an answer to all of their problems.

What he achieved was nothing short of a miracle and had the effort and resources he rallied been put to a good use instead of that of power gain and evil, he probably would have gone down in history as the greatest leader ever..

Unfortunately he chose the pathway of evil and millions suffered or died because of it.

Agreed. Apparently the book is as boring as f****. I wouldn't give it house room. What happened to the Jews was unforgiveable and any written thoughts from mad evil person should be consigned to the bin."

It shouldn't be consigned to the bin outright, it should be read by all, appreciated for the mindless drivel that it is, and *then* put in the bin, or just back on the shelf.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"nothing wrong with reading it, but if you start thinking "he might have a point here" probably best to put it down!

Everyone has the right to have an open mind and not to have to make up their minds before reading something or based on the opinions of others

That is right and it is nothing wrong to think he have a point either there as we all form an opinion of it.

^ Can everyone just take a moment to reflect on this post.

"

It means that it is ok for others to have another opinion then the norm.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've read it.... In fact I had to read it twice, it's not easy to follow, or it certainly wasn't for me anyhow.

It's an interesting perspective from the times, you can't really gain anything from his mental state from it but probably a bit about his mentality.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Ok. Back to the OP's original question Mein Kampf and der Führer's mental state."

I've studied the Turd Reich in some detail and two things are important in respect of this:

.

1/ There's no point reading Mein Kampf - it's badly written. It's an important book to understand Hitler but a hard boring books where Hitler rants like a madman about how the Jews are unworthy and idiotic. Meh. Life's too short.

.

2/ Hitler's mental state. Much has been speculated on this - hysteria, megalomania, schizophrenia - but *never* proven. There is a better case for proving Hitler's heavy use of barbiturates, opiates and other drugs.

.

But I'm afraid nothing to conclude that Hitler was simply classifiable as a nut job.

Sorry.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

"

I wouldn't say that Churchill was a fan of Hitler although there is some anecdotal evidence that he admired his oratory skills (which to be fair were pretty good)

Churchill was warning about the rise of fascism as early as 1930/31 and all through the period known as his "wilderness years" he urged Britain to re-arm and was bitterly opposed to appeasement and German re-armament.

Hardly the actions of a "big fan"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's right I'm afraid there's very little to conclude he was anything but normal.... Bad tempered, mood swings, depression even but not much to conclude he was nuts..... There's not even much evidence to conclude he had much to do with the holocaust, there's plenty of evidence of other Nazi offices, Gestapo,ss but very little for Hitler

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By *atcoupleCouple
over a year ago

Suffolk - East Anglia


"Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

I wouldn't say that Churchill was a fan of Hitler although there is some anecdotal evidence that he admired his oratory skills (which to be fair were pretty good)

Churchill was warning about the rise of fascism as early as 1930/31 and all through the period known as his "wilderness years" he urged Britain to re-arm and was bitterly opposed to appeasement and German re-armament.

Hardly the actions of a "big fan" "

Correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Must admit that I've always had a thought that it might be an interesting read and insight to what eventually happened.

Without a doubt a monster but history is always on the side of the victor.

All history is only ever written by the Victorious, many (I'm one of them) would argue there were not two wars, but one with a lull in between that couldn't possibly last due to the harshness of the Versailles Treaty, makes me wonder if even as it was signed those in power knew it too..

S"

.

I think it was the French general who concluded that upon signing "Versaille isn't a peace treaty but a twenty year amnesty"!.

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C

I'm sorry but what the f do you mean it was there with "their blessing"? No matter what the book i or contains it is not banned and therefore nobody should be asked or be giving approval for a book to a public library.

Allow certain groups or individuals to chose who's books are or are not in a public library and you are one step towards having bonfires of books.

I can remember an episode of the Waltons where John Boy was branded a Nazi for stopping a German book burning, a brave woman took a book from the burning pile and started to read from it, in German.......she then switched to English and we found she had saved a Bible from the fire. "

Then how do you explain it being on a library shelf less than 5 minutes away from a synagogue, and them not knowing about it?

They MUST have known about it. Fine, maybe they said nothing. They didn't kick up a fuss. Or else it wouldn't be there. Therefore, by their silence on the matter, they allowed it to be there. So yes, I will use the phrase 'with their blessing'.

If the presence of the book was to educate people about how dangerous and ridiculous Nazism is, then on the bookshelf it should stay. I for that matter, am glad it was.

There is a distinct possibility that members of the public did ask for the book to be supplied/removed and their opinion on the matter was requested.

I did that book was the shelf. I picked up and handled the book out of sheer disbelief.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Must admit that I've always had a thought that it might be an interesting read and insight to what eventually happened.

Without a doubt a monster but history is always on the side of the victor.

All history is only ever written by the Victorious, many (I'm one of them) would argue there were not two wars, but one with a lull in between that couldn't possibly last due to the harshness of the Versailles Treaty, makes me wonder if even as it was signed those in power knew it too..

S.

I think it was the French general who concluded that upon signing "Versaille isn't a peace treaty but a twenty year amnesty"!.

"

Yes. That really goes along with what I've always said.

There was no such thing as WW2 in Europe. It was just WW1 part 2.

The treaty of Versailles was a dogs breakfast and (as many could see at the time) was always going to lead to a future conflict.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I started reading it but gave up as it is utter rubbish, did you know Hitler had a strange sexual affair with his niece that ended in her killing herself!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C

I'm sorry but what the f do you mean it was there with "their blessing"? No matter what the book i or contains it is not banned and therefore nobody should be asked or be giving approval for a book to a public library.

Allow certain groups or individuals to chose who's books are or are not in a public library and you are one step towards having bonfires of books.

I can remember an episode of the Waltons where John Boy was branded a Nazi for stopping a German book burning, a brave woman took a book from the burning pile and started to read from it, in German.......she then switched to English and we found she had saved a Bible from the fire.

Then how do you explain it being on a library shelf less than 5 minutes away from a synagogue, and them not knowing about it?

They MUST have known about it. Fine, maybe they said nothing. They didn't kick up a fuss. Or else it wouldn't be there. Therefore, by their silence on the matter, they allowed it to be there. So yes, I will use the phrase 'with their blessing'.

If the presence of the book was to educate people about how dangerous and ridiculous Nazism is, then on the bookshelf it should stay. I for that matter, am glad it was.

There is a distinct possibility that members of the public did ask for the book to be supplied/removed and their opinion on the matter was requested.

I did that book was the shelf. I picked up and handled the book out of sheer disbelief.

"

It would be some what ironic to remove it as that's exactly what Hitler would have done to something he did not agree with. To read such drivel educates people on how not to go about things!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I started reading it but gave up as it is utter rubbish, did you know Hitler had a strange sexual affair with his niece that ended in her killing herself!"

The actual "affair" was never proved.

It was probably no more than Hitler being a domineering uncle, although he did say that she was the only woman he ever loved. However there is no evidence that the relationship was ever physical

Most of the juicy gossip at the time (after her suicide) was fuelled by Otto Strasser a fervent political enemy of Hitler.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I read that it wasn't physical as apparently he was asexual but I also read he used to enjoy watching her dressing

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

He was a swinger too, had a dim view of single guys though, watch this and see :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McGaEJ6HMjM

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

I wouldn't say that Churchill was a fan of Hitler although there is some anecdotal evidence that he admired his oratory skills (which to be fair were pretty good)

Churchill was warning about the rise of fascism as early as 1930/31 and all through the period known as his "wilderness years" he urged Britain to re-arm and was bitterly opposed to appeasement and German re-armament.

Hardly the actions of a "big fan" "

Personally I consider Churchill a fascist as well. He didn't want to give India independence and "wrote off" all Australians because "they came from bad blood". Without a shadow of doubt if Germany had won the WWII it wouldn't have been difficult for historians to paint Churchill in a bad light; misogynist, alcoholic, manic depressive, Dardanelles fiasco, Norway fiasco, tax evader....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

History always portrays the losers as "crazy" for the sanity of the fuckers that just fought it!.

I'm afraid Hitler didn't think anything that everybody else already thought... Hell he nicked the concentration camp idea of the British but went one step further.

It would be nice to think they all were nuts but I'm afraid it turns out just like serial killers there mostly pretty normal people, just like the concentration camp guards were pretty normal.

Humans just do crazy shit when they can, Africans, Indians, Asians, Russians, Americans, native Americans, Muslims, Catholics, we've all done genocidal crimes! It's not new and it didn't end with Hitler, the Balkans, Syria, Afghanistan.... Fuck the list of crazy shit is endless.

Bad ideas tend to snowball into fucking really bad ideas when times are tough.

Hitler I'm afraid was no more mental than the next guy.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"History always portrays the losers as "crazy" for the sanity of the fuckers that just fought it!.

I'm afraid Hitler didn't think anything that everybody else already thought... Hell he nicked the concentration camp idea of the British but went one step further.

It would be nice to think they all were nuts but I'm afraid it turns out just like serial killers there mostly pretty normal people, just like the concentration camp guards were pretty normal.

Humans just do crazy shit when they can, Africans, Indians, Asians, Russians, Americans, native Americans, Muslims, Catholics, we've all done genocidal crimes! It's not new and it didn't end with Hitler, the Balkans, Syria, Afghanistan.... Fuck the list of crazy shit is endless.

Bad ideas tend to snowball into fucking really bad ideas when times are tough.

Hitler I'm afraid was no more mental than the next guy."

And there is a lot more truth in that than most people (would like to) think.

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By *0tt0nSu3Woman
over a year ago

London


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C

I'm sorry but what the f do you mean it was there with "their blessing"? No matter what the book i or contains it is not banned and therefore nobody should be asked or be giving approval for a book to a public library.

Allow certain groups or individuals to chose who's books are or are not in a public library and you are one step towards having bonfires of books.

I can remember an episode of the Waltons where John Boy was branded a Nazi for stopping a German book burning, a brave woman took a book from the burning pile and started to read from it, in German.......she then switched to English and we found she had saved a Bible from the fire.

Then how do you explain it being on a library shelf less than 5 minutes away from a synagogue, and them not knowing about it?

They MUST have known about it. Fine, maybe they said nothing. They didn't kick up a fuss. Or else it wouldn't be there. Therefore, by their silence on the matter, they allowed it to be there. So yes, I will use the phrase 'with their blessing'.

If the presence of the book was to educate people about how dangerous and ridiculous Nazism is, then on the bookshelf it should stay. I for that matter, am glad it was.

There is a distinct possibility that members of the public did ask for the book to be supplied/removed and their opinion on the matter was requested.

I did that book was the shelf. I picked up and handled the book out of sheer disbelief.

It would be some what ironic to remove it as that's exactly what Hitler would have done to something he did not agree with. To read such drivel educates people on how not to go about things!"

Exactly this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

I wouldn't say that Churchill was a fan of Hitler although there is some anecdotal evidence that he admired his oratory skills (which to be fair were pretty good)

Churchill was warning about the rise of fascism as early as 1930/31 and all through the period known as his "wilderness years" he urged Britain to re-arm and was bitterly opposed to appeasement and German re-armament.

Hardly the actions of a "big fan"

Personally I consider Churchill a fascist as well. He didn't want to give India independence and "wrote off" all Australians because "they came from bad blood". Without a shadow of doubt if Germany had won the WWII it wouldn't have been difficult for historians to paint Churchill in a bad light; misogynist, alcoholic, manic depressive, Dardanelles fiasco, Norway fiasco, tax evader...."

Er maybe you need to read up on your history.

Churchill became Prime Minister because of the Norway fiasco (which was on Chamberlain's watch)

The Dardanelles was a disaster but in theory was actually quite a good idea.

Alcoholic? Yep he enjoyed a drink but hey ho, so do I.

Misogynist? Yes, but I would have said the same to Bessie Braddock and Lady Astor.

Peace time Prime Minister? Hopeless.

War time leader? Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

You could have also chucked in the sinking of the Lusitania but (although abhorrent) was for the right reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Read it by all means, but to what end?

You can see what was done as a result of his views and rule.

Will reading the book make you think he wasn't insane ? 10's of millions of people died in horrific circumstances, the book makes no difference.

The distasteful aspect is that it seems to give the impression what he did can be justified or explained rationally.

MrB

I'm not looking to see justification or explanations. I'm purely intrigued about how he viewed the world in his own words. Like I said in the OP looking at the war from both sides of the fence. From the very top of the command chain down to the men on the front line with the guns."

Both sides?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"History always portrays the losers as "crazy" for the sanity of the fuckers that just fought it!.

I'm afraid Hitler didn't think anything that everybody else already thought... Hell he nicked the concentration camp idea of the British but went one step further.

It would be nice to think they all were nuts but I'm afraid it turns out just like serial killers there mostly pretty normal people, just like the concentration camp guards were pretty normal.

Humans just do crazy shit when they can, Africans, Indians, Asians, Russians, Americans, native Americans, Muslims, Catholics, we've all done genocidal crimes! It's not new and it didn't end with Hitler, the Balkans, Syria, Afghanistan.... Fuck the list of crazy shit is endless.

Bad ideas tend to snowball into fucking really bad ideas when times are tough.

Hitler I'm afraid was no more mental than the next guy."

You mean pure evil?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany "

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The history about and surrounding World War 2 has long been a subject that I've read about, talked about with veterans, and visited battle sites. In a similar manner to any good historian (not that I claim to be one), I try to look at it from both sides in depth.

Now, we all know Hitler was pretty much bonkers, but I've been wondering about how bonkers he was privately, and have been toying with the idea of purchasing a copy of Mein Kempf to understand just how warped his mind really was, and in turn lead him down the path he tried to take Germany.

Has anybody ever read it? What were your thoughts if you have?

Do you find the idea of reading it distasteful?

It's a slightly heavy topic for what is usually a light hearted place, but I figured it may be an interesting one.

There was a copy of Mein Kempf at the old Camomile Street library in the city of London. The library was less than 5 minutes walk away from the synagogue in Heneage Lane.

At first I was intrigued. It had a lot of date stamps and was well worn. I concluded that it was there with their blessing. I have so much respect for them for that.

You've gotta know what the enemy is thinking, so to speak.

With this in mind, I really, really wanted to borrow it. I had no bag and didn't fancy wandering back to work with a copy of Mein Kempf under my arm. I definitely would have got a few stares...

One of the few things I regretted in terms of library book borrowing.

I digress.

If it's for education purposes and you need to know what the enemy is thinking OP, then get it. I'll not look at you negatively for it.

Best

C

I'm sorry but what the f do you mean it was there with "their blessing"? No matter what the book i or contains it is not banned and therefore nobody should be asked or be giving approval for a book to a public library.

Allow certain groups or individuals to chose who's books are or are not in a public library and you are one step towards having bonfires of books.

I can remember an episode of the Waltons where John Boy was branded a Nazi for stopping a German book burning, a brave woman took a book from the burning pile and started to read from it, in German.......she then switched to English and we found she had saved a Bible from the fire.

Then how do you explain it being on a library shelf less than 5 minutes away from a synagogue, and them not knowing about it?

They MUST have known about it. Fine, maybe they said nothing. They didn't kick up a fuss. Or else it wouldn't be there. Therefore, by their silence on the matter, they allowed it to be there. So yes, I will use the phrase 'with their blessing'.

If the presence of the book was to educate people about how dangerous and ridiculous Nazism is, then on the bookshelf it should stay. I for that matter, am glad it was.

There is a distinct possibility that members of the public did ask for the book to be supplied/removed and their opinion on the matter was requested.

I did that book was the shelf. I picked up and handled the book out of sheer disbelief.

"

I at no point disbelieve the book was there what I'm saying is it shouldn't need anybody's blessing to be so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?"

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"History always portrays the losers as "crazy" for the sanity of the fuckers that just fought it!.

I'm afraid Hitler didn't think anything that everybody else already thought... Hell he nicked the concentration camp idea of the British but went one step further.

It would be nice to think they all were nuts but I'm afraid it turns out just like serial killers there mostly pretty normal people, just like the concentration camp guards were pretty normal.

Humans just do crazy shit when they can, Africans, Indians, Asians, Russians, Americans, native Americans, Muslims, Catholics, we've all done genocidal crimes! It's not new and it didn't end with Hitler, the Balkans, Syria, Afghanistan.... Fuck the list of crazy shit is endless.

Bad ideas tend to snowball into fucking really bad ideas when times are tough.

Hitler I'm afraid was no more mental than the next guy.

And there is a lot more truth in that than most people (would like to) think."

Hear hear, well said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"History always portrays the losers as "crazy" for the sanity of the fuckers that just fought it!.

I'm afraid Hitler didn't think anything that everybody else already thought... Hell he nicked the concentration camp idea of the British but went one step further.

It would be nice to think they all were nuts but I'm afraid it turns out just like serial killers there mostly pretty normal people, just like the concentration camp guards were pretty normal.

Humans just do crazy shit when they can, Africans, Indians, Asians, Russians, Americans, native Americans, Muslims, Catholics, we've all done genocidal crimes! It's not new and it didn't end with Hitler, the Balkans, Syria, Afghanistan.... Fuck the list of crazy shit is endless.

Bad ideas tend to snowball into fucking really bad ideas when times are tough.

Hitler I'm afraid was no more mental than the next guy.

And there is a lot more truth in that than most people (would like to) think.

Hear hear, well said."

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard."

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wouldn't bother. It's crap and besides, he didn't start losing his mind until his later years.

I (Mr) have a degree in History & Politics and studying the period offers an interesting perspective when you have access to the source material.

You'd see Churchill was a big fan of Hitler, Mein Kampf and his ideology (especially his oratory skills).

Churchill was forced into changing his mind.

I wouldn't say that Churchill was a fan of Hitler although there is some anecdotal evidence that he admired his oratory skills (which to be fair were pretty good)

Churchill was warning about the rise of fascism as early as 1930/31 and all through the period known as his "wilderness years" he urged Britain to re-arm and was bitterly opposed to appeasement and German re-armament.

Hardly the actions of a "big fan"

Personally I consider Churchill a fascist as well. He didn't want to give India independence and "wrote off" all Australians because "they came from bad blood". Without a shadow of doubt if Germany had won the WWII it wouldn't have been difficult for historians to paint Churchill in a bad light; misogynist, alcoholic, manic depressive, Dardanelles fiasco, Norway fiasco, tax evader....

Er maybe you need to read up on your history.

Churchill became Prime Minister because of the Norway fiasco (which was on Chamberlain's watch)

The Dardanelles was a disaster but in theory was actually quite a good idea.

Alcoholic? Yep he enjoyed a drink but hey ho, so do I.

Misogynist? Yes, but I would have said the same to Bessie Braddock and Lady Astor.

Peace time Prime Minister? Hopeless.

War time leader? Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

You could have also chucked in the sinking of the Lusitania but (although abhorrent) was for the right reasons.

"

Churchill was 1st sea lord and thus directly responsible for the norwah fiasco and only ironically became PM because of it!

Dardanelles was a good idea? what, it was everybody else's failure then?

The Lusitania was sunk by a German submarine off the coast of Ireland and was full of munitions.

You missed tax evasion, when he was Chancellor he altered the tax laws which acted respectively so he didn't have to pay tax on his considerable income from writing.

Even in death he cost us money because his grandchildren conned £6 million out of the Lottery for papers from his time in office, which didn't belong to him, they belonged to us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hitler was a piss poor commander and had issues with looking shit to his people.

It's how Churchill managed to goad him into bombing city's instead of the radar stations the military commanders wanted to carry on bombing, it's why he insisted on the eastern front when they all said don't bother.

I'm not entirely 100% sure he wanted to invade Britain but we were pretty sure he couldn't keep expanding!.

.

Wars a pretty shit thing and nearly usually always brought on by the leaders and not the people...

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?"

OK Manstein was the brains behind the 1940 Ardennes offensive which ultimately pushed the BEF back to Dunkirk.

In the context of the whole war you could equally mention Guderian, Model, Von Rundstedt, Rommel, and quite a few others.

Bottom line is that the best general the allies had was Hitler himself. He didn't have a bloody clue.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

What we can be thankful for is he never listened to his generals...specially during Operation Barbarossa.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

"

That's right.

Churchhill DID support Manstein.

I said Manstein got away with murder.

No. .I'll not be ashamed!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"

Churchill was 1st sea lord and thus directly responsible for the norwah fiasco and only ironically became PM because of it!

"

No he wasn't.

First Sea Lord 1939 -1943 was Sir Dudley Pound.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

That's right.

Churchhill DID support Manstein.

I said Manstein got away with murder.

No. .I'll not be ashamed! "

Churchill supported Manstein?

Pray tell me when and where.

This one I would love to hear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To stay in power, you either have to do things you don't want to do to keep allies on your side..... Or you do what Stalin did and just shoot everybody.... Trouble with that is, it leaves you with no "talent".

.

.

That scenario works for dictators or elected leaders!!.

.

.

So what have we learnt?.

Well I've learnt if you leave leaders with big military powers they'll tend to abuse it.

.

Hence why I said I'd rather have a trained home defence force like Switzerland

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Churchill was 1st sea lord and thus directly responsible for the norwah fiasco and only ironically became PM because of it!

No he wasn't.

First Sea Lord 1939 -1943 was Sir Dudley Pound."

Sorry, he was First Lord of the Admiralty but the Norway fiasco was still his.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

That's right.

Churchhill DID support Manstein.

I said Manstein got away with murder.

No. .I'll not be ashamed!

Churchill supported Manstein?

Pray tell me when and where.

This one I would love to hear."

Beleive he organised or at least facilitated Manstein defence during the Nuremberg trials by "having a whip round"

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

OK Manstein was the brains behind the 1940 Ardennes offensive which ultimately pushed the BEF back to Dunkirk.

In the context of the whole war you could equally mention Guderian, Model, Von Rundstedt, Rommel, and quite a few others.

Bottom line is that the best general the allies had was Hitler himself. He didn't have a bloody clue."

Is more like it

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"

Churchill was 1st sea lord and thus directly responsible for the norwah fiasco and only ironically became PM because of it!

No he wasn't.

First Sea Lord 1939 -1943 was Sir Dudley Pound."

Ah, yes, poor old Dudley. Couple of strokes really didn't help his performance at a critical time.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"

Churchill was 1st sea lord and thus directly responsible for the norwah fiasco and only ironically became PM because of it!

No he wasn't.

First Sea Lord 1939 -1943 was Sir Dudley Pound.

Sorry, he was First Lord of the Admiralty but the Norway fiasco was still his."

Norway, Dieppe - even the Desert War itself - were sideshows.

The war was fought, and lost, on the Eastern Front.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wouldn't dissuade anyone from reading it or suggest that by doing so enlightenment would shine through the dark shadow his existence cast over humanity .....

try "the art of pouting" by mikki maraschino,,its a rattling good read n over 150 glossy pics,,the ideal xmas pressie "

got a copy last week...pages one to seventeen are now essentially plywood now though so i'm just in the process of removing the pages and individually laminating them

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The war was fought, and lost, on the Eastern Front."

Very insightful, but not completely accurate. There was a second equally important battlefront. The Battle of the Atlantic and the Russian Convoys to Archangel and Murmansk were of equal importance and are equally overlooked.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

No i havent read it.

What intrigues me more are the "normal" men with wives and families that by day gased people then by night where family men.

Im getting an understanding but my head cant accept it.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"The war was fought, and lost, on the Eastern Front.

Very insightful, but not completely accurate. There was a second equally important battlefront. The Battle of the Atlantic and the Russian Convoys to Archangel and Murmansk were of equal importance and are equally overlooked."

Agreed. I would add that the Italian campaign and the Western front after D day were a bit more than sideshows as well.

I am fully aware of the Russian contribution and would never try to belittle it. However I do get a bit angry when the American haters always try to downplay their, and the British, role in WW2.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The war was fought, and lost, on the Eastern Front.

Very insightful, but not completely accurate. There was a second equally important battlefront. The Battle of the Atlantic and the Russian Convoys to Archangel and Murmansk were of equal importance and are equally overlooked.

Agreed. I would add that the Italian campaign and the Western front after D day were a bit more than sideshows as well.

I am fully aware of the Russian contribution and would never try to belittle it. However I do get a bit angry when the American haters always try to downplay their, and the British, role in WW2. "

Eastern front and enigma code breakers.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"I'd be curious to read it, but serial killers and the psychology behind it fascinates me anyway. Make of that what you will."

everything I've ever read about serial killers has me seriously believing in evil as a physical force .

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"I am fully aware of the Russian contribution and would never try to belittle it. However I do get a bit angry when the American haters always try to downplay their, and the British, role in WW2. "

American contribution?

Please expand...

Don't forget to mention how the Yanks refused to declare war on Germany until they were informed that Hitler had declared war on the USA on the 11 Dec 1941. Maybe you could add a little about how the Yanks agreed to share information on the atomic bomb project and after all the British research work notes had been given to the USA the USA refused to hand over any of its research. Or how as part of the payment for lend lease (where we were supplied with obsolete warships) the USA got bases in the UK and crown protectorates in the south seas. You may like to mention how they also got the RR Merlin engine, plans for the first computers and Whittles jet engine.

I am not a Yank hater, but I don't love them either. What I am is a realist, and I know that the USA screws us over on a regular basis and our leaders seem to enjoy bending over and puckering up!

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"No i havent read it.

What intrigues me more are the "normal" men with wives and families that by day gased people then by night where family men.

Im getting an understanding but my head cant accept it."

they were able to do it because in there mind they had dehumanised a whole groups of human beings into lesser humans thus rationalising the eradication of a lesser species for the benefit of keeping Aryan blood lines free of disease and corruption.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Eastern front and enigma code breakers."

Funny thing is everyone goes on about Alan Turing, Bletchley Park and breaking the enigma code. However it was not broken by Turing and the Blechley Park cryptographers, it was broken by Polish mathematicians in the 1930's who supplied the British with an enigma machine and the mathematics that supplied the door that allowed the daily codes to be broken.

I wonder why we don't hear about that?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"No i havent read it.

What intrigues me more are the "normal" men with wives and families that by day gased people then by night where family men.

Im getting an understanding but my head cant accept it.

they were able to do it because in there mind they had dehumanised a whole groups of human beings into lesser humans thus rationalising the eradication of a lesser species for the benefit of keeping Aryan blood lines free of disease and corruption. "

yes, that is the exact understanding i have but my head cant accept it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eastern front and enigma code breakers.

Funny thing is everyone goes on about Alan Turing, Bletchley Park and breaking the enigma code. However it was not broken by Turing and the Blechley Park cryptographers, it was broken by Polish mathematicians in the 1930's who supplied the British with an enigma machine and the mathematics that supplied the door that allowed the daily codes to be broken.

I wonder why we don't hear about that? "

Someone we all have to thank but very few know: Tommy Flowers, designed Colossus, the first programmable electronic computer which help solve those encrypted messages, far more important than Turin.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"No i havent read it.

What intrigues me more are the "normal" men with wives and families that by day gased people then by night where family men.

Im getting an understanding but my head cant accept it.

they were able to do it because in there mind they had dehumanised a whole groups of human beings into lesser humans thus rationalising the eradication of a lesser species for the benefit of keeping Aryan blood lines free of disease and corruption. yes, that is the exact understanding i have but my head cant accept it."

its a classic example of the power of ideology at work .inspiring people to commit things that free of ideology they would never contemplate .

most human beings are sheep there thoughts shaped for them very few are free thinkers or original thinkers most like sheep with follow the prevailing wind at the time no matter what way it blows .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ive read it but it is not that good. i looked into it rather deeply a few years back and will say that he is an interesting one.

yes it was the jews having a higher social standing and the rejection, from an art academy that turned him against the jews. it wasnt all personal he mainly set out on a politcal route, to provide a better way of life for the entire german population. eventually he cracked and became the nutter he is written into history as. as we all know history is written by the victor

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Someone we all have to thank but very few know: Tommy Flowers, designed Colossus, the first programmable electronic computer which help solve those encrypted messages, far more important than Turin."

Yep...

Built it in his own time and paid for the parts for it with his own money because a civil servant said a GPO telephone exchange mechanic is not able to do anything significant for the war effort. Then when it turned out he knew exactly what he was doing the government took his invention and used the official secrets and treason acts to refuse to let him benefit from his work and gave it to the USA for free who quickly formed IBM and spent the next 20 years selling our invention back to us at inflated prices!

...

The government gave him £1000 (less than he spent) as an award after the end of the war. He must have been so grateful!

At least they didn't hound him to death like they did Turing...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"yes a long time ago,,its utter shite

It's content or how it's written?

actually both.

it was written by Hitler but edited by Rudolf Hess"

It wasn't "written" as such, by Hitler, it was mostly dictated from a prison cell.

It's a document with enormous historical significance, why shouldn't you read it?

Just because I've read :ord of the Rings, doen't mean I think I'm a wizard....

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

"

Ashamed? Why?

Churchill, was a dispicable human being and widely hated even here. There is definitley an argument that to fight monsters, you must be a monster, though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I take everything written about Hitler with a pinch of salt.

I believe there's a lot more to the situation than is available in public domain, but regardless..

It's an interesting read.

Someone I know has a first edition with a blood thumbprint inside the cover, and one of Eva Braun's business cards raided from the Eagle's nest.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"No i havent read it.

What intrigues me more are the "normal" men with wives and families that by day gased people then by night where family men.

Im getting an understanding but my head cant accept it."

Turning " normal" people into mass killers is exceptionally easy.

It's a simple bit of psychology using peer pressure and " normalisation" of behaviour.

Interviews with those who have been arrested for massacres; "ethnic cleansing" - such as that in Bosnia and Kosovo ( and others ) reinforces how easy it is for " normal" people to be turned.

Other psychological experiments have been done to show it;

One of the most notorious being the " Stanford Prison Experiment " where two groups of utterly normal people were divided into guards and prisoners. With minimal outside influence, the situation became so dangerous so quickly that the experiment had to be stopped before someone got seriously injured or killed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hitler was a cunt von manstein would have won war for Germany

Interesting proposition - why Manstein?

Churchill fucking supported that piece of shit.

He got away with cold blooded murder. The bastard.

Hitler got away with murder? Nope he put a bullet in his own head in the bunker.

Manstein got away with murder. Nope he was a wartime general (and a bloody good one)

Churchill supported Hitler? Total bollox and you should be ashamed for saying it.

Ashamed? Why?

Churchill, was a dispicable human being and widely hated even here. There is definitley an argument that to fight monsters, you must be a monster, though. "

Churchill was extremely lucky that Hitler was obsessed with Russia, had that obsession lay with the U.K. he would probably be now best known for being a d*unk fool, who let the Nazis in and needed the States to liberate the country.

But we all know history is made by the Victorious!

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