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Trump and climate change

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I was listening to lbc news earlier and he believes it don't exists and he said it is the earths natural cycle. I kind of agree, but as they chop down the rainforest it kind of have a small impact, what is your view?

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst

i think hes right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The overwhelming majority of people who actually study the field say he's wrong. I'll put my money on them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well somebody had better get in the Fox's Glacier Mints for the Polar Bears then, cos they didn't get that memo

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

99% of scientists don't.

But, hey, experts. What do they know.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

Cow trump causes climate change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Sun has been at its strongest over the past 60 years and may now be affecting global temperatures.

"The Sun is in a changed state. It is brighter than it was a few hundred years ago and this brightening started relatively recently - in the last 100 to 150 years."

so how much global warming does the sun put out into the solar system and what effect is it causing

should we not worry about the sun going out, after all they say it has already used up more than half its hydrogen fuel supply

Swiss and German scientists suggests that increasing radiation from the sun is responsible for recent global climate changes

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway. "

why

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway.

why"

Do you know what coal and gas are and where they come from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The overwhelming majority of people who actually study the field say he's wrong. I'll put my money on them."

Experts? No, we're sick of them

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway.

why"

That wasn't a question so I'm not answering it. Even if it becomes a question I won't deign to answer.

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham


"Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway.

why

Do you know what coal and gas are and where they come from?"

The merchants down the road ! Dohhhh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We just need to figure out how to create a shit loads of lightning storms as they repair the ozone shield

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By *ongtalljonMan
over a year ago

North Wales


"I was listening to lbc news earlier and he believes it don't exists and he said it is the earths natural cycle. I kind of agree, but as they chop down the rainforest it kind of have a small impact, what is your view? "

Having seen the figures for pollution caused by trucks and the equivelent figures for pollution caused by ships carrying thousands of containers filled to the brim with Black Friday specials. I can see where he's coming from....

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By *ongtalljonMan
over a year ago

North Wales


"We just need to figure out how to create a shit loads of lightning storms as they repair the ozone shield "

Depends whether you're hell bent on destroying the world as quickly as possible or not.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"99% of scientists don't.

But, hey, experts. What do they know.

"

Ah but this is the era of post-reason politics - you don't need to listen to anyone who's view contradicts your own narrow one can be simply dismissed.

You should try it.

It's incredibly easy.

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it "

why should we then worry about global warming!!!!!!!!!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out"

That's a very foolish and short-sighted view, you know.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it "

This is also very short-sighted and foolish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out

That's a very foolish and short-sighted view, you know.

"
that's true Joe

lets make a deal and compromise

you do the worrying and conserving on fossil fuels for the both of us

and I will do the partying, having fun and enjoying life for the both of us

Team work

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By *ureTemptationWoman
over a year ago

Off the grid


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it "

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

Neither I or my partner have kids so what happens in the next 30-50 years is pretty academic but most people on this forum and elsewhere do have kids and grandkids. When I see some of the utter complacency about the very future of those offspring I struggle to understand how people can profess to love their kids.

Even *if* and it's a big if, the climate scientists, geologists, astronomers, life scientists, etc, etc are wrong about the *cause* of global warming, the effects of raised sea levels and the increase of crop-threatening pests will have an absolutely devastating effect on the Western world. Huge population movement caused by flooding of lowlands, increase in disease.

If we plan and build for the worst and the worst does not happen, it will not be a disaster. If we continue to ignore the warning signs and the worst does come to pass, we have basically said the biggest F-You to the next generation.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out

That's a very foolish and short-sighted view, you know.

that's true Joe

lets make a deal and compromise

you do the worrying and conserving on fossil fuels for the both of us

and I will do the partying, having fun and enjoying life for the both of us

Team work "

No - I'll out-party, out live and out-perform you and still clean up the shit tip your generation left for the rest of us.

See the problem with the attitude you espouse is that it presupposes the a) I'm alright, Jack so fuck the rest of yez and b) that your situation will never change.

Welcome to chaos, my friend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS."

I agree we should also ban protein powders. Those fockers who drink protein shakes are like a methane factory

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out

That's a very foolish and short-sighted view, you know.

that's true Joe

lets make a deal and compromise

you do the worrying and conserving on fossil fuels for the both of us

and I will do the partying, having fun and enjoying life for the both of us

Team work

No - I'll out-party, out live and out-perform you and still clean up the shit tip your generation left for the rest of us.

See the problem with the attitude you espouse is that it presupposes the a) I'm alright, Jack so fuck the rest of yez and b) that your situation will never change.

Welcome to chaos, my friend.

"

Pssst Joe

If I fuck up the planet for both of us, I suspect I will have lived a better life than you

.

think about it

I am the one who has been surfing North Shore Hawaii for the past 20 years, you gotta lot of catching up to do

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS."

I partly blame the BBC, the number of times they have a climate-denier on TV or radio for "balance" and its often Nigel Lawson who is not even a f**king lab assistant, never mind a scientist. To make matters worse they NEVER tell the viewer/listener that the climate "sceptic" are almost always funded by the Koch Brothers - billionaires who own massively polluting industries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

I partly blame the BBC, the number of times they have a climate-denier on TV or radio for "balance" and its often Nigel Lawson who is not even a f**king lab assistant, never mind a scientist. To make matters worse they NEVER tell the viewer/listener that the climate "sceptic" are almost always funded by the Koch Brothers - billionaires who own massively polluting industries.

"

fingers in ears

lalalalala

cant hear you

some one say something

eyes closed cant read

lalalala

keep on worrying lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS."

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"the living planet is growing year by year, trees which were on the surface many years back and now 2 miles deep below, the planet grows, the mass increases, and with so many huge dams, reservoirs and changes, the planet is now spinning out of its axis

we are doomed, all doomed, and that's without global warming to worry about and the sun burning out

That's a very foolish and short-sighted view, you know.

that's true Joe

lets make a deal and compromise

you do the worrying and conserving on fossil fuels for the both of us

and I will do the partying, having fun and enjoying life for the both of us

Team work

No - I'll out-party, out live and out-perform you and still clean up the shit tip your generation left for the rest of us.

See the problem with the attitude you espouse is that it presupposes the a) I'm alright, Jack so fuck the rest of yez and b) that your situation will never change.

Welcome to chaos, my friend.

Pssst Joe

If I fuck up the planet for both of us, I suspect I will have lived a better life than you

.

think about it

I am the one who has been surfing North Shore Hawaii for the past 20 years, you gotta lot of catching up to do "

Passé or cliché - I can't decide

I spent 10 years watching the desert flower and spring to life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS."

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont"

...is what I was saying:


"Ah but this is the era of post-reason politics - you don't need to listen to anyone who's view contradicts your own narrow one can be simply dismissed.

You should try it.

It's incredibly easy."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont"

Why don't you believe her?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS."

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"

Why don't you believe her? "

Do.Not.Feed.The.Troll.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why don't you believe her?

Do.Not.Feed.The.Troll."

I know, I know. Just fancied giving him enough rope to hang himself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

stop it or I will get the ugly stick out

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"stop it or I will get the ugly stick out"

Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"stop it or I will get the ugly stick out

Lol"

your not taking this serious

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

The earth goes through cyclical stages of climate change of extreme heat with the poles melting and extreme cold with temperate areas going through mini ice ages..

History has shown this in archeology and more recently with the frost fairs taking place when the Thames froze over.

Not that I'm detracting from the obvious effect that humans have played in depleting the ozone layer and increased carbon dioxide causing heat to be retained..

Nor am I gonna question the obvious fact that trump is talking outta his arse..

It just isn't quite as simple as it's all man's fault, but it's definitely happening..

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"stop it or I will get the ugly stick out

Lol

your not taking this serious "

Which clearly makes two of us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"The earth goes through cyclical stages of climate change of extreme heat with the poles melting and extreme cold with temperate areas going through mini ice ages..

History has shown this in archeology and more recently with the frost fairs taking place when the Thames froze over.

Not that I'm detracting from the obvious effect that humans have played in depleting the ozone layer and increased carbon dioxide causing heat to be retained..

Nor am I gonna question the obvious fact that trump is talking outta his arse..

It just isn't quite as simple as it's all man's fault, but it's definitely happening.. "

It's not history or archaeology - it's geology and ice cores that tell us about climate fluctuations.

If you're going to sound authoritative, get right.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things. "

I can see you've studied Science

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things. "

you sure have a pretty face and fair comments

no ugly stick for you, most certainly the opposite pretty girl

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things.

you sure have a pretty face and fair comments

no ugly stick for you, most certainly the opposite pretty girl"

I can see you've studied at The Swish Tony School of Seduction.

Is that one of those 2-4-1 deals on shitty diplomas?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

which is why people are terrified that one of the first things trump will do is take the US out of the Paris Climate change agreement...,

so where the rest of the world are trying to find cleaner and greener technologies... trump is going in the opposite directions....

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things. "

Yeah, those couple of dozen very reassuring pamphlets mostly funded (with no conflict of interest of course!) by those kindly Oil companies, Koch Industries etc

vs

hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by people with beards and thick glasses, and those crazy hippies at NASA

Hmmm, hard to weigh up who is probably correct.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things. "
.

That's the statement they make!!.

It's of course extremely misleading.... Like some say? Well yes saying something is very easy, backing it up with data is a little bit harder, that's why you won't find ONE climate scientist who SAYS it's not c02 with any data to prove it.

It's like this statement you'll hear people say..... In the 70s scientists said we were heading for global cooling, yes that's right there was about 6 papers that were written indicating we might be heading for cooling, of course they fail to mention there was 50 papers that contradicted those 6 papers and showed we were heading for warming from greenhouse gases, primarily c02.... Of course that doesn't stop people saying in the 70s they said we'd be in a new ice age.... They say it alright but honestly it's bullshit and that's not what the science says!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know! Let's just not change anything, see what happens and then we'll know who was right! Yes?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"which is why people are terrified that one of the first things trump will do is take the US out of the Paris Climate change agreement...,

so where the rest of the world are trying to find cleaner and greener technologies... trump is going in the opposite directions...."

Tbf, I think he's got illegal immigrants in his sights first...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things.

Yeah, those couple of dozen very reassuring pamphlets mostly funded (with no conflict of interest of course!) by those kindly Oil companies, Koch Industries etc

vs

hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by people with beards and thick glasses, and those crazy hippies at NASA

Hmmm, hard to weigh up who is probably correct."
actually if you look at the studies you can see that the planet has gone through many phases of warming up and then hitting the point where it plunges us back.. My interst lies in geology but when you look at sections of rock that shows millions of years the changes are there to see...

Yes sometimes it was caused by factors such as super volcanic eruptions or meteor strikes... but it still happened without the help of people...

Yes I think we are contributing and yes I think we are destroying this beautiful planet but I do think that we do not know enough to be making judgements either way.. and that if it is us.. the damage is already done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things.

Yeah, those couple of dozen very reassuring pamphlets mostly funded (with no conflict of interest of course!) by those kindly Oil companies, Koch Industries etc

vs

hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by people with beards and thick glasses, and those crazy hippies at NASA

Hmmm, hard to weigh up who is probably correct. actually if you look at the studies you can see that the planet has gone through many phases of warming up and then hitting the point where it plunges us back.. My interst lies in geology but when you look at sections of rock that shows millions of years the changes are there to see...

Yes sometimes it was caused by factors such as super volcanic eruptions or meteor strikes... but it still happened without the help of people...

Yes I think we are contributing and yes I think we are destroying this beautiful planet but I do think that we do not know enough to be making judgements either way.. and that if it is us.. the damage is already done. "
.

I think your slightly confused about what the science says about anthropogenic climate change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was listening to lbc news earlier and he believes it don't exists and he said it is the earths natural cycle. I kind of agree, but as they chop down the rainforest it kind of have a small impact, what is your view? "
.

With trump it's hard to tell what he thinks if you look back 15 years ago he was a big "beliver" in climate change, then he thought it was a Chinese hoax then a UN hoax now it's "natural variation" he flip flops on stuff better than Hillary Clinton, his entire life has been one long flip flop pro life, pro abortion, pro single payer healthcare, anti Obama care, anti any sort of health care, pro immigration, anti immigration... The truth is he'll say any old shit that he thinks people will like..... Even when it makes him look a tit.... He'll still shout out... Show us the birth certificate.

.

.

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be fair if you read scientific journals there are arguments on both sides.. some say its just a natural cycle and the planet warms up.. then triggers an ice age and starts again .. but we are changing or at least adding to things.

Yeah, those couple of dozen very reassuring pamphlets mostly funded (with no conflict of interest of course!) by those kindly Oil companies, Koch Industries etc

vs

hundreds of peer-reviewed studies by people with beards and thick glasses, and those crazy hippies at NASA

Hmmm, hard to weigh up who is probably correct. actually if you look at the studies you can see that the planet has gone through many phases of warming up and then hitting the point where it plunges us back.. My interst lies in geology but when you look at sections of rock that shows millions of years the changes are there to see...

Yes sometimes it was caused by factors such as super volcanic eruptions or meteor strikes... but it still happened without the help of people...

Yes I think we are contributing and yes I think we are destroying this beautiful planet but I do think that we do not know enough to be making judgements either way.. and that if it is us.. the damage is already done. .

I think your slightly confused about what the science says about anthropogenic climate change"
no I just like to read all reports... not the ones that support popular theories.. including the weird and wonderful..

My interest is as I say mostly on the natural causes of climate change.. and while I agree we maybe speeding it up.. I do also think from what ive read that it has happened many times previously in the planets history which we are just a blip on its life span. But I am not a climatologist... Just someone who likes to read and learn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC "

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP started a thread and bailed yet the discussions goes on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

My interest is as I say mostly on the natural causes of climate change.. and while I agree we maybe speeding it up.. I do also think from what ive read that it has happened many times previously in the planets history which we are just a blip on its life span. But I am not a climatologist... Just someone who likes to read and learn

"
.

Mmmm I don't really know where to begin with that,i don't want to appear rude but natural climate change and variation has been known for hundreds of years, Darwin's book showed how animal and plant life adjust to changing habitat.

In the late 1800s Tyndall showed how carbon dioxide absorbs long wave radiation trapping heat.

We've know for along long time that the earth wobbles on its axis from about 21 degrees to 24 degrees over around a 24,000 year period, this is known as the procession of the equinox, even the Mayans knew that... When the earth is flatter to the sun we receive a lot more radiation than when were tilted from the sun(like today) there's also a 100,000 year meander of the earth around the sun where we get closer and further away and then there's a very good nuclear dynamic of how the suns output will change over millions of years.

.

So yes theres natural climate change which we've known about for along time and what we have a good understanding of...... And then there's anthropogenic climate change which is the added change caused by human activity on top of the natural variance.... This is what we've been studying more for the last 60 years as it's causing problems with its speed of increase

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told"
.

Well anybody can say anything, it doesn't make things truer, what you have to do is look at the volume and quality of the data that supports your conclusion.

.

So just like gravity or evolution the volume and quality of evidence is exceptionally good to the point where you can say yes this is the very very likely answer(science doesn't really do definites).

.

If you wish to think something else that's personal choice but your own opinion can never carry as much weight unless you can give your own volume of data to support your opinion?....

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By *acLe0dMan
over a year ago

Preston

The question to ask man-made climate change deniers is "What if you are wrong?"

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you get hung up on the c02 problem try and think of it like this..... You know England back in the days of robin hood had lots and lots of trees, woodland was pretty much everywhere, trees absorb c02 and put out oxygen, now think about the rain forests that are beyond huge, they cut down the size of Wales every year just from the Amazon, you can follow this trend from north America to Russia we've(humans) laid waste to millions of square kilometres of woodland for farmland or fuel for hundreds if not thousands of years as the population of humans has expanded from tens of millions to 7 billon it becomes more and more problematic to the steady climate we've enjoyed for ten thousand years, you can do the same thing with the oceans your grandad fisherman only needed a row boat to catch fish because they were plentiful only a few hundred feet from shore, your dad's generation fisherman needed a bigger boat because he had to go out miles to catch fish and today they need a fucking ocean going liner and sail out to the middle of the Atlantic to catch fish as even then they sometimes can't catch out because... Well there like trees, few and far between, less fish less whales less phytoplankton which produce 80% of the world's oxygen..... This is called man made climate change, it changed coz man did shit that wouldn't have happened without us doing it..... Like 80 million barrels of oil a day just oozing from the ground and setting fire to itself, it's a man made thing, you could expect the odd volcanoe to erupt wether we were here or not but....80 million barrels of oil a day oozing out and setting fire to itself is... Well it's just not natural

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I was listening to lbc news earlier and he believes it don't exists and he said it is the earths natural cycle. I kind of agree, but as they chop down the rainforest it kind of have a small impact, what is your view? .

With trump it's hard to tell what he thinks if you look back 15 years ago he was a big "beliver" in climate change, then he thought it was a Chinese hoax then a UN hoax now it's "natural variation" he flip flops on stuff better than Hillary Clinton, his entire life has been one long flip flop pro life, pro abortion, pro single payer healthcare, anti Obama care, anti any sort of health care, pro immigration, anti immigration... The truth is he'll say any old shit that he thinks people will like..... Even when it makes him look a tit.... He'll still shout out... Show us the birth certificate.

.

.

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC "
That is right too and yeah many changes their mind about it too, one good example is china, there was a place they couldnt see 1 meter infront of them because of all the pollution.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

They're not listening. It's f**king desperate times when we might be hoping President Xi of China can offer some counterbalance to the bloodymindedness of a US president.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"They're not listening. It's f**king desperate times when we might be hoping President Xi of China can offer some counterbalance to the bloodymindedness of a US president."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kl6u6rIbPo

9luv)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"99% of scientists don't.

But, hey, experts. What do they know.

Ah but this is the era of post-reason politics - you don't need to listen to anyone who's view contradicts your own narrow one can be simply dismissed.

You should try it.

It's incredibly easy.

"

Seems to happen a lot on the forums lately.....particularly any discussion of brexit!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Even if the sun is brighter and hotter, it makes sense to stop using polluting fossil fuels anyway. "

It's not only fossil fuels, imyouve got chemicals in hair sprays, deodorants, gases used in refrigerators, the Ozone has started to repair itself after we've cut down on the use of these gases, the climate cord that was recently signed was to cut these gases even more, think about it, we get insurance invade shit happens so doesn't it make sense to be cautious with the planet that the future us will inherit? Or those who will live forever?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

My interest is as I say mostly on the natural causes of climate change.. and while I agree we maybe speeding it up.. I do also think from what ive read that it has happened many times previously in the planets history which we are just a blip on its life span. But I am not a climatologist... Just someone who likes to read and learn

.

Mmmm I don't really know where to begin with that,i don't want to appear rude but natural climate change and variation has been known for hundreds of years, Darwin's book showed how animal and plant life adjust to changing habitat.

In the late 1800s Tyndall showed how carbon dioxide absorbs long wave radiation trapping heat.

We've know for along long time that the earth wobbles on its axis from about 21 degrees to 24 degrees over around a 24,000 year period, this is known as the procession of the equinox, even the Mayans knew that... When the earth is flatter to the sun we receive a lot more radiation than when were tilted from the sun(like today) there's also a 100,000 year meander of the earth around the sun where we get closer and further away and then there's a very good nuclear dynamic of how the suns output will change over millions of years.

.

So yes theres natural climate change which we've known about for along time and what we have a good understanding of...... And then there's anthropogenic climate change which is the added change caused by human activity on top of the natural variance.... This is what we've been studying more for the last 60 years as it's causing problems with its speed of increase"
wow Mr patronising.. I am sure I know as little or as much as you.. seeing as neither of us are climatologists.. I read because I like science and new theories come out all the time.. but if your prepared to look there is research that both supports climate change and defunks it... That if you bother to read my posts was my point.

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By *ureTemptationWoman
over a year ago

Off the grid


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont"

Degree and master's, yes. I never completed my PhD. But spent 3+ years on it. Would you like to see my degree certificates on kik? You want my GCSEs and A Levels too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" wow Mr patronising.. I am sure I know as little or as much as you.. seeing as neither of us are climatologists.. I read because I like science and new theories come out all the time.. but if your prepared to look there is research that both supports climate change and defunks it... That if you bother to read my posts was my point.

"
.

I honestly wasn't trying to be patronising but it seemed that from your post you were getting confused between natural climate change and man made climate change.

Funnily enough I've read quite a few papers on climate change but I've not really come across any the defunks it?.

Could you please give me some idea of which ones to look for, I'd love to read them.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"

there is research that both supports climate change and defunks it...

"

No, there is almost none at all that now argues against climate change, let alone debunks. Not serious, peer reviewed science. There's lots of amateurs with blogs, sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

there is research that both supports climate change and defunks it...

No, there is almost none at all that now argues against climate change, let alone debunks. Not serious, peer reviewed science. There's lots of amateurs with blogs, sure. "
.

I know that, I was asking her nicely to see where on the internet she'd got this "research" from

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's just look at this as a d*unk would...

The ice in your vodka melts much quicker when the ice cubes are smaller, and quicker still if you hold it in your hand.

The earth is emerging from the last ice age, and the smaller the reflective surface of the poles gets the faster they will melt, anything we do to add to the problem will speed it up.

for 85% of this planets existence there were no ice bergs, or permafrost, but then there were no humans either.

Trump will be in power for 4 or maybe 8 years, the Mexico wall project will take 10 years to build, after the x years planning and funding it, the coal and steel industries will take 15 to 20 to rebuild and get up ànd running.

Bottom line is Trump is not much of a threat to the environment, but the environment is a threat to the current flora and fauna of which humans are a small part. Drink your vodka quicker, but hold the glass carefully to avoid warming it too soon....

Cheers.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Currently global warming is mostly due to human activities. To ignore the evidence is either stupidity or covering other motives.

We are in a precarious position just now, where we can limit potential huge gains in global warming, so that it would only increase by a damaging 2 degrees Celsius. If it's not limited to that then the world is likely to face calamitous levels of warming.

My gut feel with Trump was that he spouted a lot of lies to stoke the rabble to vote for him. It's hard to understand if he could really believe it until he takes action that confirms such talk. His behaviour could herald the end of life as we know it.

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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts

Even if you're a sceptic, I'd much rather try and be more environmentally friendly than assume the experts are wrong, and die suffocating or starving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's right. How do you explain the Ice Age? What that caused by Range Rovers and people not recycling their rubbish?

Also, of course the ice caps are melting... The sun is a star and gets bigger and bigger every year, the life cycle of a star is to grow bigger and bigger and hotter and hotter until it implodes on its self. When the sun reaches its full size, it will completely engulf the whole solar system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's right. How do you explain the Ice Age? What that caused by Range Rovers and people not recycling their rubbish?

Also, of course the ice caps are melting... The sun is a star and gets bigger and bigger every year, the life cycle of a star is to grow bigger and bigger and hotter and hotter until it implodes on its self. When the sun reaches its full size, it will completely engulf the whole solar system. "

Um... no. The Sun's size is pretty stable at the moment and will stay that way for several billion years. Once its hydrogen runs out it will veer off the main sequence and swell into a red giant.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told.

Well anybody can say anything, it doesn't make things truer, what you have to do is look at the volume and quality of the data that supports your conclusion.

.

So just like gravity or evolution the volume and quality of evidence is exceptionally good to the point where you can say yes this is the very very likely answer(science doesn't really do definites).

.

If you wish to think something else that's personal choice but your own opinion can never carry as much weight unless you can give your own volume of data to support your opinion?....

"

So when the very very likely answer was,

that by 2016 the artic sea ice would have completely melted.

The evidence must have been exceptionally good.

Although in retrospect,

Not exceptionally reliable.

When the evidence on the rapid decline in polar bear numbers,even their possible extinction,in the not too distant future.

Was the very very likely answer.

The evidence once more,must have been exceptionally good.

Although once more,

in retrospect,

not exceptionally reliable.

So forgive me,I'll be taking everything they say,on man made climate change,

with a pinch of salt

Until they have a more reliable source of evidence,

on which to Base their facts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont

Degree and master's, yes. I never completed my PhD. But spent 3+ years on it. Would you like to see my degree certificates on kik? You want my GCSEs and A Levels too? "

you stick to your studies, I will stick to earning hard earned cash, well actually, not really hard earned but it all goes in bank and towards pension and of course paying for students to learn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was listening to lbc news earlier and he believes it don't exists and he said it is the earths natural cycle. I kind of agree, but as they chop down the rainforest it kind of have a small impact, what is your view? "

He's a dick. That's just my view.

Climate change? It's cold at winter. I enjoy it when it's warm in the summer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told.

Well anybody can say anything, it doesn't make things truer, what you have to do is look at the volume and quality of the data that supports your conclusion.

.

So just like gravity or evolution the volume and quality of evidence is exceptionally good to the point where you can say yes this is the very very likely answer(science doesn't really do definites).

.

If you wish to think something else that's personal choice but your own opinion can never carry as much weight unless you can give your own volume of data to support your opinion?....

So when the very very likely answer was,

that by 2016 the artic sea ice would have completely melted.

The evidence must have been exceptionally good.

Although in retrospect,

Not exceptionally reliable.

When the evidence on the rapid decline in polar bear numbers,even their possible extinction,in the not too distant future.

Was the very very likely answer.

The evidence once more,must have been exceptionally good.

Although once more,

in retrospect,

not exceptionally reliable.

So forgive me,I'll be taking everything they say,on man made climate change,

with a pinch of salt

Until they have a more reliable source of evidence,

on which to Base their facts.

"
.

The IPCC have never done a paper on polar bears I'm afraid, that's just spin and nonsense from bloggers, as for Arctic sea ice you've cherry picked the earliest date of 2016(which by the way came with a plus or minus ten years) done by the US navy... theres been quite a few others if you take the average of them which is 2030 then look at the observable data.... Guess what, it's bang on target for an Arctic ice free summer by 2030 ... But as the last report pointed out the rate of loss is increasing so it COULD come by as early as 2024

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"

The IPCC have never done a paper on polar bears I'm afraid, that's just spin and nonsense from bloggers, as for Arctic sea ice you've cherry picked the earliest date of 2016(which by the way came with a plus or minus ten years) done by the US navy... theres been quite a few others if you take the average of them which is 2030 then look at the observable data.... Guess what, it's bang on target for an Arctic ice free summer by 2030 ... But as the last report pointed out the rate of loss is increasing so it COULD come by as early as 2024"

There was a Far Side cartoon from 1983 called What We Say To Dogs/What Dogs Hear.

First panel - What We Say - has a man telling Ginger, his dog: "OK Ginger, I've had it! You stay out of the garbage! Understand Ginger? Stay out of the garbage, or else!"

Second panel - What They Hear - "blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you look at this graph done from piomas showing the monthly averages from 1979-2014

.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_sea_ice_decline#/media/File%3AArctic-death-spiral.png.

.

.

You don't need to be a genius to see Arctic ice free summers are very very close.

So you can argue about getting the year wrong(even though I actually pointed out they didn't) but the observable data is following the theory, that's called predictability and is the essentialness of science.

.

.

I would urge everybody to click on the link as that one graph explains the problem in very simple to understand terms

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"

I would urge everybody to click on the link as that one graph explains the problem in very simple to understand terms"

Bless you mate, but I refer you to my earlier posting. The lack of interest in this topic from people who claim to love their children is beyond depressing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The sun has been getting gradually brighter for billions of years not one hundred, and that will continue - during that brightening we've had ice ages etc

Trump is taking shite of course he is, global warming is happening - we know that because we measure it!

Of course the earths climiate is affected by other things and cycles as well - no one has ever said CO2 is the only thing

There's actually some evidence the sun is going through a quieter phase which might give us half a century to bail the planet out

And the sun will run out of fuel of course it will - just not for several billion years when none of us will be here to worry about it

I think the methane gas given off by the shite Trump is talking is going to have an impact.

Honestly, people. Science is not a religion. You don't get to choose to believe in it or not. It's our "best guess" using logic to assess the evidence.

If you don't believe in science, what are you not believing in? Evidence? Or logic?

You know what, I want the 8 year of my life back doing my degree, masters and my PhD. It was obviously totally pointless. Hey let's not bother publishing peer reviewed work because no one believes in it anyway. Let's just chill at home and write and blog and when anyone refutes our claims, we'll just blame big pharma and the government. (And probably make more money from a blog than doing a science research post let's face it.)

Threads like this make me want to cry.

FFS.

stop trying to kid us all on you have a degree, masters and my PhD, tell the truth, you dont

Degree and master's, yes. I never completed my PhD. But spent 3+ years on it. Would you like to see my degree certificates on kik? You want my GCSEs and A Levels too? "

Yeah ok, go on then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I would urge everybody to click on the link as that one graph explains the problem in very simple to understand terms

Bless you mate, but I refer you to my earlier posting. The lack of interest in this topic from people who claim to love their children is beyond depressing."

What? Are you suggesting that people who don't recycle , don't drive an electric car and don't wear deodarant don't love their children?

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Instead of listening to trump about climate change why don't we just listen to the thousands of people who've actually fucking studied it.... They have their own little group called the IPCC

You mean like these similar so called experts that advised on Brexit

these "so called experts" are being paid and do what they are told.

Well anybody can say anything, it doesn't make things truer, what you have to do is look at the volume and quality of the data that supports your conclusion.

.

So just like gravity or evolution the volume and quality of evidence is exceptionally good to the point where you can say yes this is the very very likely answer(science doesn't really do definites).

.

If you wish to think something else that's personal choice but your own opinion can never carry as much weight unless you can give your own volume of data to support your opinion?....

So when the very very likely answer was,

that by 2016 the artic sea ice would have completely melted.

The evidence must have been exceptionally good.

Although in retrospect,

Not exceptionally reliable.

When the evidence on the rapid decline in polar bear numbers,even their possible extinction,in the not too distant future.

Was the very very likely answer.

The evidence once more,must have been exceptionally good.

Although once more,

in retrospect,

not exceptionally reliable.

So forgive me,I'll be taking everything they say,on man made climate change,

with a pinch of salt

Until they have a more reliable source of evidence,

on which to Base their facts.

.

The IPCC have never done a paper on polar bears I'm afraid, that's just spin and nonsense from bloggers, as for Arctic sea ice you've cherry picked the earliest date of 2016(which by the way came with a plus or minus ten years) done by the US navy... theres been quite a few others if you take the average of them which is 2030 then look at the observable data.... Guess what, it's bang on target for an Arctic ice free summer by 2030 ... But as the last report pointed out the rate of loss is increasing so it COULD come by as early as 2024"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

there is research that both supports climate change and defunks it...

No, there is almost none at all that now argues against climate change, let alone debunks. Not serious, peer reviewed science. There's lots of amateurs with blogs, sure. .

I know that, I was asking her nicely to see where on the internet she'd got this "research" from"

Really... well you go to libraries... you read a journal that interests you.. in my case it was about ecology because I was bored... which then cited a study about Paleocene climate..and then was a study about how many times the polar ice caps had melted previously...

This then cited other studies which I then looked up using the www... some of us do not rely on google for what we read.. or believe every bit of science... I mean imagine when people believed the earth was flat.

But there is studies out there that do suggest that while we contribute the earth has a cycle and we are just speeding it along. Can I tell you who it was.. Nope.. just that I read it and loads of other things because being the nerd that I am.. I like to read and see what is being looked at.

Same as I read a study about how predatory ants were affecting catterpiller numbers in a remote jungle... and my thoughts for that.. how did they get funding for that.. oh and that was in the journal of ecology .. As only read it recently.

So she doesn't just read crap posted on facebook or google.

To be honest one of the most interesting reports on effects of co2 on the atmosphere came from a report done about the affects of volcanic erruptions.... and that I bounced from research to research... its fun to cite jump on things and read oppossing and supporting research...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

"
.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do believe climate is in cycles. Maybe man is speeding it up. Maybe not.

I do think we have finite resources on this planet and we should be using them more carefully.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most agree that climate change will happen no matter what you do but why mankind has to speed it up by cutting millions of trees see rain forest ect.

And no it's not just the older generation but the new generation is part to blame as well all running around with new mobile phones, Xbox,PS4, new latest big assed TV's on and on and on.

It's about time the world stopped and took stock but it's always lip service to the idea to little by too few too late

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Trump and climate change?

Well, when I do there is

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By *mber GamblerCouple
over a year ago

rugby

Hmm. Trump or 99% of scientists. I'll go with the scientists. To have so many scientists in agreement, speaks to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Basically I think we're fucked. It's the when that's the question. We are already beginning to feel the fall out. I do fear for my children's, and future grandchildren's future. Trump may dent it, but he's only denting the damage that's already been done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello PureTemptation,

Ther has bveen so much alteration and falsification of data and so many scientists are fixed on an agenda that they won't accept that they may be wrong.

Please don't put a lot of faith into 'peer review', it is pretty cursory at best.

A recent investigation has shown that 50% of scientific reasearch cannot be replicated, this is across the board and there is no reason to believe climate science is any better.

The worst part of the science of CO2 is that they have to resort to computer modelling to 'prove' it, however their models do omit or put arbitary figures in for the vast number of factors.

Worse, is the U.Un. has dceide to accept that and has persuaded the world to expend vast amounts of money to try and change nature.

Alec

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trump probably believes as I do. The developed economies will try and cut greenhouse emissions. The large developing economies will do fuck all about it. Until we get to the point where everything is owned and run by China and/or India. So fuck it.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years"

Presumably you're neither a mum or aunt. If you are, you must hate them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

But there is studies out there that do suggest that while we contribute the earth has a cycle and we are just speeding it along. Can I tell you who it was.. Nope..

"
.

I can help you there..... It's called the IPCC and the many thousands of scientists who study it.

Because what you've actually described is exactly what the IPCC and all the data and evidence points to.....a natural climate cycle as I described above which has many known factors which I described above which cycles around in tens and hundreds of thousands of years, the length bit there is quite key, like the current ice age were leaving, this bit,the last 12,000 years called the Holocene or the inter glacial Holocene the ice age itself is around 2 million years old with meanderings up and down in between but the critical bit for humans is this very steady last 25,000 years of temperature variations, not just for humans but really it's great for all living creatures.

The problem now is human activity is speeding along the natural aspect of change at very quick time ratios, change that took a 100,000 years to occur before is now occurring at 100 year ratios when you change habitat that quickly you don't allow evolution to take place to adapt,i mean 100 years is only really 4 generations of humans....

When we start those normally very slowly occurring natural feedbacks by our not natural warming caused by human activity we will release a phenomena called runaway climate change and yes your correct this has happened a few times in the billions of years of earth history, the pmte wiped out 96% of all life on earth and took around 100 million years for recovery... So these events have very scary outcomes and it's why we've studied and researched them for so long.

Now the bad news, the bit nobody is unsure about anymore in science is the fact that humans are driving it faster than it should be by realising c02 .... As I said before try imaging a world where we hadn't discovered fossil fuels and instead jumped straight to renewables......

.

if 80 million barrels of oil and 300 million cubic metres of gas was accidentally coming out of the ground and catching fire every single day, for decades we'd just look at it and say.... You know what this is a fucking disaster we need to stop it really quickly before the whole world gets fucked from it.....

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years

Presumably you're neither a mum or aunt. If you are, you must hate them."

I apologise for my previous comment here, this is a subject too important for flippancy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years"
.

It's already happening I'm afraid it's been occurring slowly for a few decades now and is growing steadily..... How long before it gets you?... That depends, your wealthy(based on the third world) and live in a wealthy country, you'll probably bite the bullet later than most....35-50 years is about 50/50 chance

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years

Presumably you're neither a mum or aunt. If you are, you must hate them."

Not a mother; but an aunt; and no i don't hate them; what an awful thing for you to say

Humans have been polluting the planet for the last 100 years; that is 3 generations and we haven't got wiped out yet; the sea hasn't swamped over the continents as predicted

Most is natural climate change; the ice age wasn't created by leaving the freezer door open

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby


"They're not listening. It's f**king desperate times when we might be hoping President Xi of China can offer some counterbalance to the bloodymindedness of a US president."
And how did it all come to this not by Itself it was man again somewhere down the line things went badly wrong from president lincoln to present time you could say well we have only got ourselves to blame which I think is true but you will find now days if there is money under the table in US politics somebody will take it and thats one of the reasons why trumps in.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years

Presumably you're neither a mum or aunt. If you are, you must hate them.

Not a mother; but an aunt; and no i don't hate them; what an awful thing for you to say

Humans have been polluting the planet for the last 100 years; that is 3 generations and we haven't got wiped out yet; the sea hasn't swamped over the continents as predicted

Most is natural climate change; the ice age wasn't created by leaving the freezer door open"

Looks like you misread the peer reviewed published studies and IPCC reports upon global warming. Perhaps visit the latter, so you could inform yourself.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Head, meet desk.....

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Couldn't give two hoots as long as whatever bad is going to happen or not, does not happen or not in the next 30-35 years

Presumably you're neither a mum or aunt. If you are, you must hate them.

Not a mother; but an aunt; and no i don't hate them; what an awful thing for you to say

Humans have been polluting the planet for the last 100 years; that is 3 generations and we haven't got wiped out yet; the sea hasn't swamped over the continents as predicted

Most is natural climate change; the ice age wasn't created by leaving the freezer door open

Looks like you misread the peer reviewed published studies and IPCC reports upon global warming. Perhaps visit the latter, so you could inform yourself."

Yep; missed all of that

Instead i took a peek outside and nothing bad happened in the last 40 years despite the doom and gloom and scaremongering

This is not the first report published nor will it be the last which will 'prove' the previous one was wrong and this is one and only true one. A bit like prophets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hello PureTemptation,

Ther has bveen so much alteration and falsification of data and so many scientists are fixed on an agenda that they won't accept that they may be wrong.

Please don't put a lot of faith into 'peer review', it is pretty cursory at best.

A recent investigation has shown that 50% of scientific reasearch cannot be replicated, this is across the board and there is no reason to believe climate science is any better.

The worst part of the science of CO2 is that they have to resort to computer modelling to 'prove' it, however their models do omit or put arbitary figures in for the vast number of factors.

Worse, is the U.Un. has dceide to accept that and has persuaded the world to expend vast amounts of money to try and change nature.

Alec"
.

Hello Alec, still pedaling the blatant lies i see.

There's been no falsifying of data there's been alterations of data only trying to match temperature data to satellite temperatures and urban expansion.

Recent replication problems was mainly in phycology and medicine not across the board and it's not exactly recent and been known about for decades.

Speaking of which.... John Tyndall..

Mid 1800s first person to measure the infra red radiation absorption of gases including....c02 using thermopile technology.... Which.... You can replicate every single fucking time.

So no, you don't have to use computer modeling to "prove it" because Tyndall was well....a bit too early for using a Mac!.

.

Speaking of computer modeling simulations, yes your right the early ones weren't great.... They were way too conservative, every bit of observable data today is far worse than the early models predicted, and that's mainly because scientists are conservative by nature

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that"

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

"
.

So you totally ignored what I told you then!.

Polar bears are marine animals adapted to swimming through cold water to eat seals.... Now if there's no sea ice left in 15 years which the OBSERVABLE data shows there won't be.... What do you think will happen to them? Take a flying fucking guess, you don't need to be a biologist to work it out although I doubt I biologist wrote any report about demising of numbers and that's just yet again another load of blogger bollocks repeated by many as FACT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe there'll go and live in Oxford and swim the fucking Thames looking for seals.... No that's just silly.... I'll guess at the Nile eating crocodiles

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The polar bears are a bad annology as the ice decreases the food source for the bears will become denser in the first instance, you need to follow the food chain down to find the breaking point.

But unless Trump is going to start using polar bear power to drive the American economy, he won't make any impression on the population in his 4 to 8 years.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

This thread has decended into each side demonstrating how clever they are at googling reports

My concern would be the negative impact of man-made climate change on humans. So far, it has been negligible on humans in the last 100 years

Whether polar bears or whales become extinct or not is something the tree-huggers must be having sleepless nights over. I would only worry if they were on my menu and the prices go up as a result

Trump has a point. Why should American manufacturing costs remain high as a result of extra measures to control pollution when the Chinese and Indians are making little effort or no effort?

Maybe this will force the others to spend more money on controlling the problem, whatever negative impact or not it may or may not have on humans, and create a level playing field in terms of manufacturing costs with the Americans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People in the 'couldn't give a fuck camp' ought to watch 'An Inconvenient Truth', a film by Al Gore.

It outlines the effects of climate change and humans input into it, it's horrifying to those of us with a conscience.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Bet someone else has also made and equally interesting film about the b*llsh*it being peddled by the doom and gloom merchants

And what exactly has been the negative impact of climate change on humans? Not interested in what it may or may not have done to some obscure bird in the wild; who gives a f**k about that but the nit-pickers

Which continents are half under-water because of the polar ice melting, as was predicted some 30 years ago?

Not talking about some little island with a population of 200 people where a couple of palm trees are getting their feet wet by the sea. I guess, if we can take 3 million economic migrants from Afganistan, India, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq then we can accommodate another 200 people in Europe from this mythical island too

Be pragmatic, not emotional about the non-issue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People in the 'couldn't give a fuck camp' ought to watch 'An Inconvenient Truth', a film by Al Gore.

It outlines the effects of climate change and humans input into it, it's horrifying to those of us with a conscience."

Science fiction at its best

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Bet someone else has also made and equally interesting film about the b*llsh*it being peddled by the doom and gloom merchants

And what exactly has been the negative impact of climate change on humans? Not interested in what it may or may not have done to some obscure bird in the wild; who gives a f**k about that but the nit-pickers

Which continents are half under-water because of the polar ice melting, as was predicted some 30 years ago?

Not talking about some little island with a population of 200 people where a couple of palm trees are getting their feet wet by the sea. I guess, if we can take 3 million economic migrants from Afganistan, India, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq then we can accommodate another 200 people in Europe from this mythical island too

Be pragmatic, not emotional about the non-issue"
.

I'm very pragmatic, to be honest there's a good proportion of the science that says you and everybody you know will die from climate change effects within 80 years!.... That's not some bird you've never heard of, to me it's a bird I've never heard of on a swinging site!.

To be pragmatic, takes honesty... Let's start, no science paper ever stated continents would be half under water today! , the early ones thirty years + ago were very conservative and pushed most of the bad shit beyond 2100!.... Now more recent ones have hinted towards sea level rise coming sooner, it's a very tricky thing to predict with some time certainty but that's not the same as saying it won't happen, the science shows there's a very very good chance it will!.

Predictability is key to science were going to need to build lots of defences against the coming changes that are already locked in to the c02 we've already emitted that means we need to know how much rise will we get, how much more frequent the big storms will become, droughts, heatwaves etc etc.... We need to know this because defences take a long time to build and finance(look at Holland's dam projects).

.

Now you need to just think a bit bigger with how you look at what has climate change done negative for humans, humans are higher primates just like all animals we require habitat, food, water, shelter.... I'll give you an example, the oceans are currently absorbing about 90% of human produced c02 and the extra heat, the effect of adding c02 to the ocean increases its acidity, it's currently today the most acidic it's been in about 3 million years or before this ice age started, coral, shell fish are already feeling those effects as the added acidification eats away at calcium shells.... The oceans are very much a biosphere the loss of quite a few animals will effect all the others.... Now how does this effect humans your asking, well this little creature called phytoplankton creates about 80% of the world's oxygen, research over the last few decades show there numbers are dwindling quite quickly from adaptation to acidifying oceans..... The ratio of oxygen on earth is quite finely balanced it's about 21% if it went up about 4% to 25% nearly everything you touch would be on fire, every tree on earth would burn uncontrollably... Now if you lowered it 4% to 17% you'd fair better but at about 10% you'd pass out and die.

See that's the point about this planet that sustains life.... It's very finely balanced, iron spinning core, large moon, thin crust, distance from sun, amount of oxygen.... All rare things that are finely balanced.... Like greenhouse gases too much and it's goodnight, too little and it's goodnight just right... Well were all Goldilocks!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People in the 'couldn't give a fuck camp' ought to watch 'An Inconvenient Truth', a film by Al Gore.

It outlines the effects of climate change and humans input into it, it's horrifying to those of us with a conscience.

Science fiction at its best"
.

See we can both agree there that al gore's film was shit and full of inflated science.... Now if people just stuck to the science we'd be all much better off

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"Bet someone else has also made and equally interesting film about the b*llsh*it being peddled by the doom and gloom merchants

And what exactly has been the negative impact of climate change on humans? Not interested in what it may or may not have done to some obscure bird in the wild; who gives a f**k about that but the nit-pickers

Which continents are half under-water because of the polar ice melting, as was predicted some 30 years ago?

Not talking about some little island with a population of 200 people where a couple of palm trees are getting their feet wet by the sea. I guess, if we can take 3 million economic migrants from Afganistan, India, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq then we can accommodate another 200 people in Europe from this mythical island too

Be pragmatic, not emotional about the non-issue.

I'm very pragmatic, to be honest there's a good proportion of the science that says you and everybody you know will die from climate change effects within 80 years!.... That's not some bird you've never heard of, to me it's a bird I've never heard of on a swinging site!.

To be pragmatic, takes honesty... Let's start, no science paper ever stated continents would be half under water today! , the early ones thirty years + ago were very conservative and pushed most of the bad shit beyond 2100!.... Now more recent ones have hinted towards sea level rise coming sooner, it's a very tricky thing to predict with some time certainty but that's not the same as saying it won't happen, the science shows there's a very very good chance it will!.

Predictability is key to science were going to need to build lots of defences against the coming changes that are already locked in to the c02 we've already emitted that means we need to know how much rise will we get, how much more frequent the big storms will become, droughts, heatwaves etc etc.... We need to know this because defences take a long time to build and finance(look at Holland's dam projects).

.

Now you need to just think a bit bigger with how you look at what has climate change done negative for humans, humans are higher primates just like all animals we require habitat, food, water, shelter.... I'll give you an example, the oceans are currently absorbing about 90% of human produced c02 and the extra heat, the effect of adding c02 to the ocean increases its acidity, it's currently today the most acidic it's been in about 3 million years or before this ice age started, coral, shell fish are already feeling those effects as the added acidification eats away at calcium shells.... The oceans are very much a biosphere the loss of quite a few animals will effect all the others.... Now how does this effect humans your asking, well this little creature called phytoplankton creates about 80% of the world's oxygen, research over the last few decades show there numbers are dwindling quite quickly from adaptation to acidifying oceans..... The ratio of oxygen on earth is quite finely balanced it's about 21% if it went up about 4% to 25% nearly everything you touch would be on fire, every tree on earth would burn uncontrollably... Now if you lowered it 4% to 17% you'd fair better but at about 10% you'd pass out and die.

See that's the point about this planet that sustains life.... It's very finely balanced, iron spinning core, large moon, thin crust, distance from sun, amount of oxygen.... All rare things that are finely balanced.... Like greenhouse gases too much and it's goodnight, too little and it's goodnight just right... Well were all Goldilocks!

"

Yes, yes, yes. It is all very 'finely balanced'; even a butterfly flapping its wings in Australia could eventually spell the extinction of humans through a series of unseemly unconnected events

We can all spout 'googled' science at each other until we are blue in the face. Your googling is not any better than my googling which predicted London to be flooded by 2030

I guess I am the kind of woman who looks outside the window before leaving for work in the morning. Irrespective of the weather report which assures me glorious sunshine all day, if I see that it is pouring down, I get my umbrella out. I rely little on 'experts' whose opinion changes faster than I can take my panties off in a swingers club. Each expert contradicts the other; afterall, they all have to make a living

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

* seemingly, not unseemingly

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 16/11/16 09:48:01]

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

.

So you totally ignored what I told you then!.

Polar bears are marine animals adapted to swimming through cold water to eat seals.... Now if there's no sea ice left in 15 years which the OBSERVABLE data shows there won't be.... What do you think will happen to them? Take a flying fucking guess, you don't need to be a biologist to work it out although I doubt I biologist wrote any report about demising of numbers and that's just yet again another load of blogger bollocks repeated by many as FACT"

W W F are they bloggers??

Polar bear population decline up five-fold in just five years.

.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"* seemingly, not unseemingly "
.

If it makes you feel better assume I googled it, however if you do Google what I wrote you'll probably find it's slightly off because it was wrote from memory... So your googled facts will actually be better than mine!. .

Now while googling.... Try and find this peer reviewed science paper you claim showed London will be under water has been wrote... From memory I can't recall one?

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"* seemingly, not unseemingly .

If it makes you feel better assume I googled it, however if you do Google what I wrote you'll probably find it's slightly off because it was wrote from memory... So your googled facts will actually be better than mine!. .

Now while googling.... Try and find this peer reviewed science paper you claim showed London will be under water has been wrote... From memory I can't recall one?"

Don't know if it was peer-reviewed (as if that makes a blind bit of difference) but I shall get a-googling as soon as I have done a bit of work, which I am supposed to be doing right now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

.

So you totally ignored what I told you then!.

Polar bears are marine animals adapted to swimming through cold water to eat seals.... Now if there's no sea ice left in 15 years which the OBSERVABLE data shows there won't be.... What do you think will happen to them? Take a flying fucking guess, you don't need to be a biologist to work it out although I doubt I biologist wrote any report about demising of numbers and that's just yet again another load of blogger bollocks repeated by many as FACT

W W F are they bloggers??

Polar bear population decline up five-fold in just five years.

.

"
.

Again wtf has the WWF got to do with climate change science showing the diminishing Arctic sea ice???? Nothing at all is the answer.

Now let's get back to what I wrote.

I've no idea how polar bears got into climate science, they've got nothing to do with the IPCC or climate research.... However if the WWF choose to put them on the endangered species list I suspect it would be from the dwindling OBSERVABLE HABITAT that they live on which will make them endangered!

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

And do the eskimoes depend on this habitat who live in their Igloos still who catch seals for their blubber perhaps they can revert to liveing in different accomodation but I presume a way of life for them will be changeing and how they deal with it afterwards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's well established that climate change has happened before but the causes remain unknown.

The biggest issue we have is that studies of climate change have little to refer to.

We know carbon emmisions are contributing but we really have no idea just how significant or insignificant their contribution is.

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By *rnortholtMan
over a year ago

Waveney Valley

Ray, am I right in thinking your avatar suggests a vested interest?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And do the eskimoes depend on this habitat who live in their Igloos still who catch seals for their blubber perhaps they can revert to liveing in different accomodation but I presume a way of life for them will be changeing and how thehy deal with it afterwards."

No, not really, sea ice is always seasonal therefore the humans build on the islands of rock not on the sea ice. in the short term like the polar bears they will benefit from a higher density of seals on a smaller geographical land mass (seals still need to get out of the water to breed)

The tipping point will be the plankton that the fish that the seals eat, coupled with the fact bears will be in close proximity to their main enemies i.e. humans and polar bears.

The question you need to consider is what happens to all the water released when the ice melts? It will make the Dutch nervous!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If Trump does war he says, I am going to put in my contracts to build the bridges to the islands of snowdonia and Ben nevis

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley


"And do the eskimoes depend on this habitat who live in their Igloos still who catch seals for their blubber perhaps they can revert to liveing in different accomodation but I presume a way of life for them will be changeing and how they deal with it afterwards."

They have already adapted to modern technology. Have you seen the snowmobile ownership amongst Eskimos

By the way, how many millions of Eskimos will be affected? Just curious; 5 million? 10 million? Same population as London?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

So much... hot air.

It's almost...

Ironic.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

There ya go. Silly song for your silly debate.

Alanis Morissette - Ironic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's well established that climate change has happened before but the causes remain unknown.

The biggest issue we have is that studies of climate change have little to refer to.

We know carbon emmisions are contributing but we really have no idea just how significant or insignificant their contribution is."
.

That's actually being a bit disingenuous and misleading of facts.

They've got a very good idea how previous climate change events have happened through ice core samples, geological rock formations, astronomical models, nuclear models of the sun's life span.... We don't know for definite but there not quite shrug your shoulders we haven't got a clue.

Your second point is irrelevant, you don't need something previous to refer it to as your third point will prove.

Your third point.... Well it's a bit long winded and hard to explain so bare with . Good scientific theory's should have some predictability to them.

Right so in about 1890ish a swede called arhenius(not sure of the spelling) came up with the theory of man made warming through greenhouse gases he based this work on John Tyndalls earlier work on the trapping of long wave radiation of carbon dioxide, methane and other gases.

Since then we've refined as measured this to calculate that the earth is about 30 degrees warmer than it would be without those gases.....

Now according to his theory if it's good we should see some predictability.... Now over the last 100 years we've doubled c02 levels as well as also increasing the other gases of methane, ozone, water vapour.... So to check which gas is causing the warning we've used spectrum analysis on ground level to see which bits of the radiation(solar heat) is being trapped and it turns out that the bit c02 traps(the different gases all trap different wave lengths) is the one primarily getting the biggest increase, they also measure the troposphere via satellite to measure trapping and amounts getting through.

So now what we see is Arrhenius theory is working very well, the more greenhouse gases that we add the theory predicted the warmer it would get(using Tyndalls experiment).

So we've measured how much c02 has been added and we've measured the temperature increases and we've seen the observable data that corresponds.... Now it gets a bit more complicated because trying to predict future increases to temperature increases is complicated because the climate is complicated, there's positive and negative feedbacks that we've measured and observed, like sulphate aerosols from air traffic cause a dimming effect on how much radiation gets through so that's a negative effect, however the c02 they produce cause the added warming that's a positive effect!. however what we do know is the last time the earth had c02 over 400ppm , well the earth looked mighty different sea levels were 80ft higher than today and temperatures were 4 degrees higher.... But of course we didn't have human activity then either!.

.

See the science has never shown it wouldn't happen without us, what it's shown is it would never happen at this rate of pace without us....

So to conclude we know exactly how much warming you would get from another 100ppm increase in c02 , what we're not entirely sure about is the timing of it because of the millions of other factors.

So that's where we get estimates from, at the moment the estimate is that summer Arctic sea ice will be gone in 16(+/-6 years) years time and that estimate fits with the observable data!.

By the way a shrinking ice sheet is a net positive effect as the white ice goes which reflects radiation it's replaced by dark ocean which soaks it up instead giving added warming!.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah"
.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh "

But this is the era of "post-truth politics".

You no longer have to listen to experts, scientists, politicians - in fact you don;t have to listen to anyone who doesn't conform to your own narrow view of the world.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Even if people don't care about Polar bears or Eskimo's , when crops start failing due to adverse weather, fish stocks dry up due to changing water temperatures, things will get very serious very quickly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah"

Not very often I agree with, today is one of those rare days

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh

But this is the era of "post-truth politics".

You no longer have to listen to experts, scientists, politicians - in fact you don;t have to listen to anyone who doesn't conform to your own narrow view of the world. "

You can expend all the words you want on this but people won't believe it. Or if it does happen, it'll be somewhere else to some browner people.

It's fine.

Relax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh

But this is the era of "post-truth politics".

You no longer have to listen to experts, scientists, politicians - in fact you don;t have to listen to anyone who doesn't conform to your own narrow view of the world. "

Has that statement been peer-reviewed? It only holds water if your buddies checked it before pressing enter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Earth does have a climate change cycle, I won't go into the science behind it but it's completely natural.

However since the industrial revolution we have knocked that cycle out of proportion by producing more greenhouse gases, which in turn has increased the GMST exponentially.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Earth does have a climate change cycle, I won't go into the science behind it but it's completely natural.

However since the industrial revolution we have knocked that cycle out of proportion by producing more greenhouse gases, which in turn has increased the GMST exponentially."

The last time the planet was this warm, Henry 8th was king. I blame him jousting in gas guzzling V8s for the temperatures back then.

I can't find it onlin. But there's a great report from the Admiralty warning about the shrinking ice caps and how they'd seen an enormous decrease on the poles. It was written in the mid 1800s. It was written with much the same angst as some of the stuff written now.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the CO2 in the atmosphere was during World War 2? You'd imagine some sort of spike with all the shit that was happening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh

But this is the era of "post-truth politics".

You no longer have to listen to experts, scientists, politicians - in fact you don;t have to listen to anyone who doesn't conform to your own narrow view of the world.

Has that statement been peer-reviewed? It only holds water if your buddies checked it before pressing enter "
.

Please God of the app market.... Make this wish come true, an app on every phone and computer that stops people repeating bollocks and bare faced lies.

I'll be there at three o'clock... No he won't he's a lying bastard and will be in the pub!.

I heard a theory that it's made up by Chinese hoax's..... No he didn't he's just made that shit up as he wants to fly as cheaply as possible, wander round his flat with the heating on full whack with just his undies on coz he's hoping the postman might catch him wanking!.

I love black people... Well he likes sucking black cock.... Shut up app.

I love the countryside... No he loves driving through it...

That's not true app...I love my kids... No he only had them coz his brother and his wife beat him to it!.

.

Now I've had enough of this lying app..... Help he's trying to silence the truth, he's an awful person that's only ever been interested in himself.....

I swear this technology is going to kill me

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

I guess school is out and the child has come out to play. Time for me to leave this thread; blah, blah, blah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The overwhelming majority of people who actually study the field say he's wrong. I'll put my money on them."

Not true

Most governments pay a select group to monitor climate change they are funded purely by the governments ,

Now most scientists would say we are still in an ice age,

As to the earths age there is an very short time there as. Been ice on the earth ,

When politicians stop driving bomb prove cars that do 8mpg sand drive around London clogging the air

I might think differently

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Earth does have a climate change cycle, I won't go into the science behind it but it's completely natural.

However since the industrial revolution we have knocked that cycle out of proportion by producing more greenhouse gases, which in turn has increased the GMST exponentially.

The last time the planet was this warm, Henry 8th was king. I blame him jousting in gas guzzling V8s for the temperatures back then.

I can't find it onlin. But there's a great report from the Admiralty warning about the shrinking ice caps and how they'd seen an enormous decrease on the poles. It was written in the mid 1800s. It was written with much the same angst as some of the stuff written now.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the CO2 in the atmosphere was during World War 2? You'd imagine some sort of spike with all the shit that was happening."
.

They've been measuring it in Hawaii every month since the 50s.

I think it's called the keeling curve you can google it no doubt, I'll save you some effort, it will be around 35 degrees upward trend on a graph.

To go back further than that they use ice core samples and analysis the trapped air inside the ice, they brought up some beauties awhile back from a swamp in Siberia..... The planet wasn't warm in Henry the 8ths time, that's the 1500s which was slap bang in the middle of the little ice age, or I should say it wasn't a warming trend but a cooling trend, you could still get an unusual warm year in the 1500s just like you could still get an unusual cold year today.... The trend though was opposite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The overwhelming majority of people who actually study the field say he's wrong. I'll put my money on them.

Not true

Most governments pay a select group to monitor climate change they are funded purely by the governments ,

Now most scientists would say we are still in an ice age,

As to the earths age there is an very short time there as. Been ice on the earth ,

"
.

No it is true, you saying it isn't true doesn't make it so, it just makes you wrong.

Every scientist would say we're still in an ice age coz we are in a fucking ice age and have been for 2 million years.... They teach this at primary school level.

..

.

.

Trump trump trump... Somebody shoot me for fuck sake, I can't take any more nitwit logic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't we train cows to stop farting?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Blah blah blah yackety-shamckety blah blah blah.

What did you do dad while they turned the world uninhabitable?

I went blah blah blah!.

Whys that?.

Looking back I have no idea? Just seemed funny at the time.

Ohhhh

But this is the era of "post-truth politics".

You no longer have to listen to experts, scientists, politicians - in fact you don;t have to listen to anyone who doesn't conform to your own narrow view of the world.

You can expend all the words you want on this but people won't believe it. Or if it does happen, it'll be somewhere else to some browner people.

It's fine.

Relax.

"

Surely if the planet gets hotter, we'll all get browner and we'll all be able to play the race card? Happy future days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The overwhelming majority of people who actually study the field say he's wrong. I'll put my money on them."

yea what the hell does a buffoon like trump know

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I don't really think it's in the top 10 list of problems that the USA has, that Trump wants to sort out.

The election wasn't won or lost on climate issues. In day to day life it doesn't affect us. In the UK, was is 50C this summer? 40C? It got to 34.4C in one place, on one day. Has it been minus 50C, 40C, 30C, 20C this year? It got to -12.4 in one place on one day.

There are bigger things that need sorting out first, namely the issues that the election was fought over and why Trump won.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

.

So you totally ignored what I told you then!.

Polar bears are marine animals adapted to swimming through cold water to eat seals.... Now if there's no sea ice left in 15 years which the OBSERVABLE data shows there won't be.... What do you think will happen to them? Take a flying fucking guess, you don't need to be a biologist to work it out although I doubt I biologist wrote any report about demising of numbers and that's just yet again another load of blogger bollocks repeated by many as FACT

W W F are they bloggers??

Polar bear population decline up five-fold in just five years.

.

.

Again wtf has the WWF got to do with climate change science showing the diminishing Arctic sea ice???? Nothing at all is the answer.

Now let's get back to what I wrote.

I've no idea how polar bears got into climate science, they've got nothing to do with the IPCC or climate research.... However if the WWF choose to put them on the endangered species list I suspect it would be from the dwindling OBSERVABLE HABITAT that they live on which will make them endangered!"

.

When I was younger,my mum gave me this bit of advice.

.

Never argue with an idiot,

They will only bring you down to their level

And beat you with experience.

.

Oh how I wish a had taken her advice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why were polar bears placed on the endangered species list,

If no one thought they were endangered.

From here it looks like they just made stuff up (lied)

To make a stronger case for man made global warming.

As I've said before,

People with an agenda,usually find what they're looking for.

.

I would imagine they were placed there because their habitat is dwindling, sea ice is they're home and seen as half of its gone it makes sense that it will endanger them?.... If we lose our habitat we'll become extinct as well. Any biologist will tell you that

They were placed there in 2008,when biologist reported a massive decline in their numbers,

citing man made climate change as the reason.

This report has since been found to be wholly inaccurate,

and generally unsubstantiated,

although still presented as fact.

The reason this report was so flawed,they had no starting point,

not a clue as to how many polar bears there were to start with,so nothing with which to make a comparison,one way or the other,

apparently polar bears are really hard to count.

Is it any wonder,some find it so hard,

to accept,or give credence,

to anything they say.

.

So you totally ignored what I told you then!.

Polar bears are marine animals adapted to swimming through cold water to eat seals.... Now if there's no sea ice left in 15 years which the OBSERVABLE data shows there won't be.... What do you think will happen to them? Take a flying fucking guess, you don't need to be a biologist to work it out although I doubt I biologist wrote any report about demising of numbers and that's just yet again another load of blogger bollocks repeated by many as FACT

W W F are they bloggers??

Polar bear population decline up five-fold in just five years.

.

.

Again wtf has the WWF got to do with climate change science showing the diminishing Arctic sea ice???? Nothing at all is the answer.

Now let's get back to what I wrote.

I've no idea how polar bears got into climate science, they've got nothing to do with the IPCC or climate research.... However if the WWF choose to put them on the endangered species list I suspect it would be from the dwindling OBSERVABLE HABITAT that they live on which will make them endangered!

.

When I was younger,my mum gave me this bit of advice.

.

Never argue with an idiot,

They will only bring you down to their level

And beat you with experience.

.

Oh how I wish a had taken her advice."
.

Yeah well I bet she still argued with you.

.

Your incapable of taking in data that I've given you and making a rational thought process.... You just keep coming back with...."what about these polar bears".

I blame myself as I should have realised from your original post that your not capable of rational thought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was listening to lbc news earlier"

Yeah stop that. ^^^

...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two great posts.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"I don't really think it's in the top 10 list of problems that the USA has, that Trump wants to sort out.

The election wasn't won or lost on climate issues. In day to day life it doesn't affect us. In the UK, was is 50C this summer? 40C? It got to 34.4C in one place, on one day. Has it been minus 50C, 40C, 30C, 20C this year? It got to -12.4 in one place on one day.

There are bigger things that need sorting out first, namely the issues that the election was fought over and why Trump won."

It's going to be the US (and our) top one problem when countries like Bangladesh lose land to the rising sea and millions of refugees come pouring into first world countries.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Fuck me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fuck me.

"
.

My new saying is trump logic...

Trump trump trump, that's being disingenuous in itself, trump has good points about problems, the real trouble is as you can tell from this forum.... He has to appeal to nitwits.

What I've learnt in life is a large section of society are getting stupider and stupider, there not progressing there regressing, I'd blame TV and alcohol but I've spent my entire life getting pissed so I'm narrowing it down to tv, the average person apparently watches 4 hours a day and the occasional time I've tuned in its been absolutely bollocks, just dross of the highest order..... The dumbing down of society has been ongoing for decades but it's really beginning to show itself recently, I'm now of the opinion that the majority are morons and there dragging us all down to their level slowly but surely

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Fuck me.

.

My new saying is trump logic...

Trump trump trump, that's being disingenuous in itself, trump has good points about problems, the real trouble is as you can tell from this forum.... He has to appeal to nitwits.

What I've learnt in life is a large section of society are getting stupider and stupider, there not progressing there regressing, I'd blame TV and alcohol but I've spent my entire life getting pissed so I'm narrowing it down to tv, the average person apparently watches 4 hours a day and the occasional time I've tuned in its been absolutely bollocks, just dross of the highest order..... The dumbing down of society has been ongoing for decades but it's really beginning to show itself recently, I'm now of the opinion that the majority are morons and there dragging us all down to their level slowly but surely"

Disagree

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"Fuck me.

.

My new saying is trump logic...

Trump trump trump, that's being disingenuous in itself, trump has good points about problems, the real trouble is as you can tell from this forum.... He has to appeal to nitwits.

What I've learnt in life is a large section of society are getting stupider and stupider, there not progressing there regressing, I'd blame TV and alcohol but I've spent my entire life getting pissed so I'm narrowing it down to tv, the average person apparently watches 4 hours a day and the occasional time I've tuned in its been absolutely bollocks, just dross of the highest order..... The dumbing down of society has been ongoing for decades but it's really beginning to show itself recently, I'm now of the opinion that the majority are morons and there dragging us all down to their level slowly but surely

Disagree"

I don't have a TV...

I've always thought it was mostly bollocks.

It's all freak shows nowadays though, isn't it?

First Dates, I'm a celeb, x-factor etc etc

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"I don't have a TV...

I've always thought it was mostly bollocks.

It's all freak shows nowadays though, isn't it?

First Dates, I'm a celeb, x-factor etc etc"

Same here. And if anything 'big' happened in the world I hear about it in the forums

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

To answer the OP though, I believe climate change is real but I do not believe it is man made

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I meant in terms of the 'race to the bottom'.

There is no need to be dragged down to anyone's level.

Drag them up to yours.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm going to refer you both to the wonderful film of network which won the Oscar in 1976 ish(before anyone rings in) .

.

.

So. A rich little man with white hair died. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And *why* is that woe to us? Because you people, and sixty-two million other Americans, are listening to me right now. Because less than three percent of you people read books! Because less than fifteen percent of you read newspapers! Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube. Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn't come out of this tube! This tube is the Gospel, the ultimate revelation. This tube can make or break presidents, popes, prime ministers... This tube is the most awesome God-damned force in the whole godless world, and woe is us if it ever falls in to the hands of the wrong people, and that's why woe is us that Edward George Ruddy died. Because this company is now in the hands of CCA - the Communication Corporation of America. There's a new Chairman of the Board, a man called Frank Hackett, sitting in Mr. Ruddy's office on the twentieth floor. And when the twelfth largest company in the world controls the most awesome God-damned propoganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network?

So, you listen to me. Listen to me: Television is not the truth! Television is a God-damned amusement park! Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, side-show freaks, lion tamers, and football players. We're in the boredom-killing business!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"I'm going to refer you both to the wonderful film of network which won the Oscar in 1976 ish(before anyone rings in) .

.

.

So. A rich little man with white hair died. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And *why* is that woe to us? Because you people, and sixty-two million other Americans, are listening to me right now. Because less than three percent of you people read books! Because less than fifteen percent of you read newspapers! Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube. Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn't come out of this tube! This tube is the Gospel, the ultimate revelation. This tube can make or break presidents, popes, prime ministers... This tube is the most awesome God-damned force in the whole godless world, and woe is us if it ever falls in to the hands of the wrong people, and that's why woe is us that Edward George Ruddy died. Because this company is now in the hands of CCA - the Communication Corporation of America. There's a new Chairman of the Board, a man called Frank Hackett, sitting in Mr. Ruddy's office on the twentieth floor. And when the twelfth largest company in the world controls the most awesome God-damned propoganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network?

So, you listen to me. Listen to me: Television is not the truth! Television is a God-damned amusement park! Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, side-show freaks, lion tamers, and football players. We're in the boredom-killing business! "

Maybe not like that tho'?

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