FabSwingers.com forum: FIFA poppy ban.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm not a massive football supporter, but I've seen that fifa have decided not to allow the English, Scottish or Welsh teams to wear the rbl poppies on their kits in the upcoming world cup qualifiers.they say it's classed as a political statement which goes against fifa policy.

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not a massive football supporter, but I've seen that fifa have decided not to allow the English, Scottish or Welsh teams to wear the rbl poppies on their kits in the upcoming world cup qualifiers.they say it's classed as a political statement which goes against fifa policy.

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

Mr"

it's quite rightly caused outrage. If I was anyone of influence at the FA I'd ignore FIFA and put the Poppy on anyway and take the fine!

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By *hloe sussexTV/TS
over a year ago

Larne

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

Mr"

I agree totally and the footballers should ignore the ban and collectively pay any fines ,after all not like they can't afford it is it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Disgusting !!

Kinky

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Agree it should be worn if that's what both the FA's want, hopefully FIFA will listen..

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By *loppsyWoman
over a year ago

marlow

Just plain wrong!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually with the current state of international relations, anything we do to avoid further antagonizing Johnny Foreigner is a wise precaution. WE may consider the poppy a signal of remembrance, but from the perspective a former or current enemy it could be considered an act of political antagonism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't understand it myself how come all the premiership teams wear it every year .... never a word said?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Actually with the current state of international relations, anything we do to avoid further antagonizing Johnny Foreigner is a wise precaution. WE may consider the poppy a signal of remembrance, but from the perspective a former or current enemy it could be considered an act of political antagonism."

I agree .... from that view point it is strictly speaking political

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Don't understand it myself how come all the premiership teams wear it every year .... never a word said? "

That's the easy bit. Our Leagues are controlled by the football association... So they decide what can and can't be worn in the domestic games. FIFA is the governing body for the international games.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

No just based on its ban on all political symbols

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck the Germans and Italians if they don't like it they can have a third helping of butt fucked!.... Oh dear I got carried away in the emotion of that poppy wearing let's kick ass mentality!.

.. As you were

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

It's to do with a FIFA ban on anything political or religious on shirts and is more directed at other countries who would abuse the lack of a rule far more than we ever would if they let it slip and in general I think it's a good rule

The key is convincing them that the poppy is, like the black armband, a mark of remembrance rather than a political symbol but unfortunately the politicalisation of the poppy in more recent years isn't helping that argument at the moment

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I agree .... from that view point it is strictly speaking political "

And I would agree with that view apart from one factor. The game in question is on the 11th. England v Scotland. No one to antagonise in my humble opinion.

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Whilst none of my grandparents died in the war - my maternal grandfather fought for the allies

There are some great great uncles that did die and their graves are being looked after by the war commission

I think it's disgusting that UEFA won't let us wear the poppy - I am wearing a poppy right now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's to do with a FIFA ban on anything political or religious on shirts and is more directed at other countries who would abuse the lack of a rule far more than we ever would if they let it slip and in general I think it's a good rule

Black armband is universal - poppy not so much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a sticky subject.

But it is a deeply significant and political symbol. And thus is a veritable 'can of worms' since it carries so much meaning and is interpreted differently to many groups.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

No just based on its ban on all political symbols "

Ah ok...

So basically no-one objects apart from the authority who makes the rules.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

No just based on its ban on all political symbols

Ah ok...

So basically no-one objects apart from the authority who makes the rules.....

"
.

We all know somebody somewhere will object..... Me for instance

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By *AM2214Man
over a year ago

Manchester Area

The Poppy commerates all who have fallen in the service of their fellow man. Of anything a Poppy is apolitical as it's purpose is to ahow rememberance and gratitude but equally to raise much needed funds for those left behind from all services from all conflicts. I used to work in a team One RC(Irish descent) One Presbyterian (Scottish) One Muslim( British Asian) One Jew ( thickest cockney accent ever) and four of us who didnt do religion...Service not Self ....

The only person to be better than is YOU yesterday ..

Id say sod it the only politics here is FIFA comolaining anout two of the FAs who asked for the Swiss Police to look into corruption ...Ivory Coast were allowed to wear Lion's Heads when plying in the World Cup Finals as a disolay against the terrorists who had attacked their bus-how is that not Political? PS why didnt they onject to Australia or New Zealand having Poppies on their kits?

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By *AM2214Man
over a year ago

Manchester Area

Spelling all my own errors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/11/16 12:28:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

No just based on its ban on all political symbols

Ah ok...

So basically no-one objects apart from the authority who makes the rules.....

We all know somebody somewhere will object..... Me for instance

Such objection to objection-ability is objectionably objectionable....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

just give every person attending a free poppy flag..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is FIFA's ruling based on an official objection raised by any of the footballing nations it represents ?

No just based on its ban on all political symbols

Ah ok...

So basically no-one objects apart from the authority who makes the rules.....

We all know somebody somewhere will object..... Me for instance

Such objection to objection-ability is objectionably objectionable....

"
.

As Mr Brando said..... What yer got

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they still ban it then just get them all to wear a black arm band with nothing on it becaus then people will know and yes give every fan the opportunity to buy one at the ground

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't need it on a football shirt to remember or to support soldiers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny I was always taught in school that the poppy is in remembrance of ALL fallen soldiers who served their country irrespective of sides, who can be offended by that? Maybe FIFA need to do a little research into what they are trying to ban before they start throwing fines about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If no country has lodged an official objection it does smack of petty officialdom .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very true, but for some groups such as Britain First or the EDL, the poppy is tied to a distinctly nationalistic voice. To others the poppy is open support for currently serving soldiers in the British forces. I know many who wear poppy's that do not share these sentiments in the slightest.

We do not have control over how symbols are used and interpreted.

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By *KMaxMan
over a year ago

Bristol

"You don't need it on a football shirt to remember or to support soldiers."

I wish we could go back to the days wear if you wanted to wear one,you just bought one, and if you didn't, you didn't. Quite why we have to have poppies on anything and everything is beyond me, it seems some people and organisations feel the need to be seen to be some kind of uber patriot.

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By *atcherwankerMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Fuck the Germans and Italians if they don't like it they can have a third helping of butt fucked!.... Oh dear I got carried away in the emotion of that poppy wearing let's kick ass mentality!.

.. As you were

THAT'S the problem, in case anybody doesn't understand how it could be interpreted as political.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You don't need it on a football shirt to remember or to support soldiers.

I agree.

I donate to the charity then the poppy I also buy either falls off or I leave it on another coat.

Not sure why it's necessary to have poppies glued to every single breast across the land to prove in large that most people do care for the loss of life caused by war.

Donation is key, not symbolism in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah they always say that

...I haven't noticed much commemoration recently for the fallen soldiers of the 1777 war against the rebellious colonials or the 1812 attempted recapturing, or fallen soldiers of the English civil war, war against the Spanish, Vietnamese, India, half of Arabia.... We have a habit of only declaring our gratitude for the "good" wars at times.

And I'm not somebody who's actually anti military I'm more somebody who's against the outside influence that war is used by...

And surely leaving the poppy off the football arena and where it belongs in remembrance cenotaphs is how it should be, to link the poppy to the seemingly battlefield of international football is either dangerous or foolhardy.... As a very good general and president once very rightly said.... Beware of the military industrial complex and it's influence either sought or unsought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The poppy raises funds for the royal British legion which helps ex/injured British soldiers. Armistice day may well commemorate the dead on "both sides"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

Exactly. A political statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would wear my poppy with pride.'fuck off fifa'

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

The poppy raises funds for the royal British legion which helps ex/injured British soldiers. Armistice day may well commemorate the dead on "both sides" "

It raises funds for the R.B.L, but it's a symbol of rememberance for all fallen soldiers.

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By *AM2214Man
over a year ago

Manchester Area

"Funny I was always taught in school that the poppy is in remembrance of ALL fallen soldiers who served their country irrespective of sides, who can be offended by that? Maybe FIFA need to do a little research into what they are trying to ban before they start throwing fines about."
We used to.hold our main service then move onto German memorials ..Germans loved the fact that we laid as much respect for their fallen as our own ..whole town used to line the route ..

similary the most moving thing ive ever seen involved Paras at Argentinian Cemetery Falklands ..

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By *AM2214Man
over a year ago

Manchester Area

" It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

Exactly. A political statement."

Apoltical not A Political!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thing is if it wasnt for them brave men women children in some cases the spinless cowards that banned it wouldnt have the freedom to do so. If they were even alive to beging with

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By *AM2214Man
over a year ago

Manchester Area

The Poppy is worn in 163 Countires around the World according to BBC and RBL..that's not including the plces were individuals may wear them ie ex Pats ..

FIFA say 'political' without clarifying what there intepretation is ..plwnty of 'political' symbols worn on kits over the years..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha"

So football is more important than showing respect for men and women that had to be brave fighting on the front line.

I don't watch football, all a bunch of over paid dramer queens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha

So football is more important than showing respect for men and women that had to be brave fighting on the front line.

I don't watch football, all a bunch of over paid dramer queens.

They are allowed to wear the poppy in their personal time, just not for the 90 minutes that they are playing in an international sports competition.

If you allow one political symbol, you must allow them all. One person's cause is not better than another. If you allow symbols of democracy (such as the poppy) then you must allow symbols of fascism (such as the Swastika). You also need to allow other symbols for political charities. You must allow people to wear political statements that support animal welfare, and those that campaign against political welfare. You must allow political statements that support war, and you must allow those that don't. If you allow one type of political statement, you must allow all. That is how it works. And that is why none are allowed.

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By *100Man
over a year ago

Essex

The pins might be dangerous if health and safety are involved but nothing surprises me with FIFA

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You don't need it on a football shirt to remember or to support soldiers.

This.

It's not a mark of respect if you're forced to wear it or hounded by the press to do so. If you choose to buy a poppy and go to a remembrance day service then fair enough

For many the poppy has become politicised particularly with the current post Brexit wave of nationalism,I agree with fifa it is a political symbol and should be treated as such.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha

So football is more important than showing respect for men and women that had to be brave fighting on the front line.

I don't watch football, all a bunch of over paid dramer queens.

They are allowed to wear the poppy in their personal time, just not for the 90 minutes that they are playing in an international sports competition.

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I have not read the whole thread yet so may be going against the grain, but why do they need to wear the poppy while running round a football pitch?

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha

So football is more important than showing respect for men and women that had to be brave fighting on the front line.

I don't watch football, all a bunch of over paid dramer queens.

They are allowed to wear the poppy in their personal time, just not for the 90 minutes that they are playing in an international sports competition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not sure where 'spineless cowards' comes from?

Or the 'we' come to that. I doubt many of us will be running out on the pitch but everyone watching is free to wear one.

I'm happy to support the RBL and have organised fund raising for H4H but I find poppy fever a little unsettling.

Those in the public eye that choose not to wear one get abuse and even death threats ffs.

I hate the way people are made to feel they have to wear one, it belittles the whole intention.

It's not a party political statement but I can understand how it can be seen as political from abroad. Enough people here try to use it as such, sadly.

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

it is a political statement it used to be a symbol of remembrance for the two world wars but then the government changed it to include all armed conflicts.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

For many the poppy has become politicised particularly with the current post Brexit wave of nationalism,I agree with fifa it is a political symbol and should be treated as such. "

Over the last few years the poppy has been celebrated by a host of British right-wing organisations as an embodiment of national identity.

People just seem to blindly wear it, without questioning that it is used as a tool to promote current wars. It is not used to say ‘never again’ as it should be.

Perhaps the question people should be asking is why are the government so keen to promote it rather than provide proper care and support for ex service men and women?

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst

"Thing is if it wasnt for them brave men women children in some cases the spinless cowards that banned it wouldnt have the freedom to do so. If they were even alive to beging with"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps the question people should be asking is why are the government so keen to promote it rather than provide proper care and support for ex service men and women?"

^^^^ this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??"

Because it is used by many organisations, including the government, to push a message that war is acceptable and indeed desirable.

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est

Pro patria mori.

It is NOT right and fitting to die for your country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For many the poppy has become politicised particularly with the current post Brexit wave of nationalism,I agree with fifa it is a political symbol and should be treated as such.

Over the last few years the poppy has been celebrated by a host of British right-wing organisations as an embodiment of national identity.

People just seem to blindly wear it, without questioning that it is used as a tool to promote current wars. It is not used to say ‘never again’ as it should be.

Perhaps the question people should be asking is why are the government so keen to promote it rather than provide proper care and support for ex service men and women?"

Exactly.

Where is the proper care and support for ex service men and women?

Has it improved at all though?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the concern is that it won't be a financial penalty, fifa have hinted that a points deduction might come into force... And to be fair the England team can't afford that hahahaha

So football is more important than showing respect for men and women that had to be brave fighting on the front line.

I don't watch football, all a bunch of over paid dramer queens.

They are allowed to wear the poppy in their personal time, just not for the 90 minutes that they are playing in an international sports competition.

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??"

The funds raised by the charity go towards helping the British people affected by inflicting war on other lands. For families of people killed by these political armed forces in foreign conflicts that is surely an issue. You can say it commemorates all fallen soldiers which is touching and noble but not the main purpose of the poppy, the origin of the poppy was to raise money to help soldiers and families of the bereaved in Britain. To suggest the FA's would just pay any fine inflicted is ridiculous. If they care so much about the cause they'd give the money to the RBL and can run a charity match once a year if they so wish. But under the FIFA banner it's a political statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wholey support what the poppy stands for and iv lost a lot of friends in both iraq and afghan. But i will never as long as i live buy a poppy from the RBL. I am an injured veteran injured in iraq in 2006. On 2 seperate occasions i have asked them for help and both times refused amd told i am not eligible. I personaly know at least 2 people that never went on operations never even did there time and only needed help because of their own irresponsibly. And they were given everyting they asked for.

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

Go FIFA

England has a long bloody history of oppression so your poppy that glorifies your armies has no place in international football

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

[Removed by poster at 02/11/16 10:19:53]

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Don't attack people when answering a point please

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

For many the poppy has become politicised particularly with the current post Brexit wave of nationalism,I agree with fifa it is a political symbol and should be treated as such.

Over the last few years the poppy has been celebrated by a host of British right-wing organisations as an embodiment of national identity.

People just seem to blindly wear it, without questioning that it is used as a tool to promote current wars. It is not used to say ‘never again’ as it should be.

Perhaps the question people should be asking is why are the government so keen to promote it rather than provide proper care and support for ex service men and women?"
Boom nail hit right on the head we shouldnt NEED the RBL to support our ex servicemen the govt should be doing that they have served the govt to allow it to further its causes and profit from the results the govt should look after them full stop

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

While I am happy to wear a poppy on both Remembrance days, I do find the argument that someone died so that I could wear one a bit odd when juxtaposed with the poppy fascism that tends to permeate our papers at this time of year.

Didn't a player get death threats last time FIFA let the England team wear poppies?

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I shall be at Wembley for this game and will wear my Poppy with pride irrespective of the FIFA ruling. Hopefully the FA will observe a minutes silence before the game too

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

"I shall be at Wembley for this game and will wear my Poppy with pride irrespective of the FIFA ruling. Hopefully the FA will observe a minutes silence before the game too

All those things are reasonable and allowed. Crowd can wear poppies. Can come dressed as poppies if they want. And I'm sure they are having mins silence. Should be anyway

Teams are a different story tho. As they should be

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??

Because it is used by many organisations, including the government, to push a message that war is acceptable and indeed desirable.

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est

Pro patria mori.

It is NOT right and fitting to die for your country."

Sorry the last sentence I find totally disrespectful. I do appreciate that's your view.

My grandfather fought in Europe for

England and could have died at any point, he was fighting for European and world peace !!!! Was he English - no but post pearl harbour he signed up to do the right thing. He was in the forces 25 years and it was his life !!!

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

"I shall be at Wembley for this game and will wear my Poppy with pride irrespective of the FIFA ruling. Hopefully the FA will observe a minutes silence before the game too

I will be there and will have my poppy on as well !!!!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??

Because it is used by many organisations, including the government, to push a message that war is acceptable and indeed desirable.

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est

Pro patria mori.

It is NOT right and fitting to die for your country."

sometimes one has to stand up and face a greater evil as a country, the fight against fascism in WW2 was such a fight..

would you have preferred to be under the tyranny of the Nazi's with their record of slaughtering the physically disabled, the mentally ill, the journalists, the trades unionists..

etc etc..

war is a shitty business and we would all love to be at a point where we as a species have realised that conflict is not the way to resolve issue's but we are not there and never may be..

there is such a thing as a just cause, the International brigade who were hardly your average bunch of hawks saw that in the 30's and took a brave stand..

it can equally be said for the abomination that is 'IS' now, they are on par with the Nazi's, Pol pot etc and given that they will not enter or entertain any form of dialogue in their perversion of a religion..

so what would you suggest we do in such circumstances..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

....fifa should be ashamed of themselves for banning wearing the poppy.its not political its a statement of intent to remember those who sacrificed everything to secure a better world for us all.the english and scottish fa's should have the balls to stand up to fifa saying this is a personal issue.theyve allowed it in the past so theyve set a benchmark for the future.having poppies on a shirt or an armband is the least we should expect from the players etc.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then...."

actually the fifa poppy arguement is not a new one... it came up about 5 yrs ago when a england friendly int landed on nov 11 (against spain) england put in the same request.... the request was denied...

but the solution was the one that i highlighted above.... they wore black armbands with a poppy on it, and everyone was happy.....

the only issue I now have is that it should be the players decision as to whether they want to wear it or now... because when they have it for club games, i can remember certain players who get slaughtered in the press for deciding not to wear one.....

but if everyone is happy... i don't have an issue with it.....

but the problem is the poppy has become a political weapon as those who decide not to wear one... or wear a white poppy.... or a black poppy..... they get derided/mocked and attacked....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then....

but the solution was the one that i highlighted above.... they wore black armbands with a poppy on it, and everyone was happy.....

but if everyone is happy... i don't have an issue with it.....

but the problem is the poppy has become a political weapon as those who decide not to wear one... or wear a white poppy.... or a black poppy..... they get derided/mocked and attacked...."

totally agree that no one should be derided or criticised by anyone else for not choosing to wear a poppy or indeed the wearing of the white poppy..

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

You have to go with what FIFA says. After all, they are the experts in enacting all codes of ethics.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then....

but the solution was the one that i highlighted above.... they wore black armbands with a poppy on it, and everyone was happy.....

but if everyone is happy... i don't have an issue with it.....

but the problem is the poppy has become a political weapon as those who decide not to wear one... or wear a white poppy.... or a black poppy..... they get derided/mocked and attacked....

totally agree that no one should be derided or criticised by anyone else for not choosing to wear a poppy or indeed the wearing of the white poppy..

"
wasnt there a player of irish extraction who refused to wear a poppy a few years ago onpolitical grounds

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By *aid backMan
over a year ago

by a lake with my rod out

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then....

but the solution was the one that i highlighted above.... they wore black armbands with a poppy on it, and everyone was happy.....

but if everyone is happy... i don't have an issue with it.....

but the problem is the poppy has become a political weapon as those who decide not to wear one... or wear a white poppy.... or a black poppy..... they get derided/mocked and attacked....

totally agree that no one should be derided or criticised by anyone else for not choosing to wear a poppy or indeed the wearing of the white poppy..

wasnt there a player of irish extraction who refused to wear a poppy a few years ago onpolitical grounds "

James mc clean

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

Maybe a poppy on a black armband then....

but the solution was the one that i highlighted above.... they wore black armbands with a poppy on it, and everyone was happy.....

but if everyone is happy... i don't have an issue with it.....

but the problem is the poppy has become a political weapon as those who decide not to wear one... or wear a white poppy.... or a black poppy..... they get derided/mocked and attacked....

totally agree that no one should be derided or criticised by anyone else for not choosing to wear a poppy or indeed the wearing of the white poppy..

wasnt there a player of irish extraction who refused to wear a poppy a few years ago onpolitical grounds "

James mc clean from Derry. Plays for the republic

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By *urious and lookingCouple
over a year ago

cork

Indeed it was him. He wrote a very eloquent and heartfelt letter to the club chairman explaining his action.

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By *unlovingx2Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen

FUCK FIFA corrupt anti Western, nation state destroying criminals,,,these are the same twats that think Quatar is a good host for the World Cup.

FIFA, EUEFA, etc all controlled by big business and used to further NWO agenda.

They despise anything that might bring genuine national pride and hate anything that defended nationhood like our military

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since when has charity and the royal British legion been political??

Because it is used by many organisations, including the government, to push a message that war is acceptable and indeed desirable.

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est

Pro patria mori.

It is NOT right and fitting to die for your country.

Sorry the last sentence I find totally disrespectful. I do appreciate that's your view.

My grandfather fought in Europe for

The last line isn't from the OP, it's from Wilfred Owen. A poet and soldier from the Great War, the subject of the poem speaks of the horrors and concludes with this line. The basic meaning is that none who were exposed to the horror of war would ever repeat 'the old lie' that it is 'sweet and honourable to die for ones country' which is an old Roman idea.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't understand how they can write it off as a political symbol. It's to remember a world war! Most of the world got dragged into it....

Fifa are a joke!

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By *avrick15Man
over a year ago

glasgow

Total bollocks it's not polictal at all, it is a remembrance emblem for ALL affected people from conflict

If I was the clubs I would just get a face painter in and get all the players to have one painted on their cheeks

Not on the shirt or a badge then is it

Get it up you FIFA

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder if bribes are against FIFA policy.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The most utterly disgusting thing ive heard of in a long time, such a corrupt organisation that damaged its own reputation due to greed and now because they want to play god ruin our traditions and beliefs. Also its not just about our veterans. Its everyone global who died in the war. WE WILL REMEMBER whatever the outcome.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst

"The most utterly disgusting thing ive heard of in a long time, such a corrupt organisation that damaged its own reputation due to greed and now because they want to play god ruin our traditions and beliefs. Also its not just about our veterans. Its everyone global who died in the war. WE WILL REMEMBER whatever the outcome."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We don't have a long tradition of wearing poppies at international football matches. They're not ruining that.

And a poppy has nothing to do with 'beliefs' - that implies religion.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"they say it's classed as a political statement which goes against fifa policy.

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives."

I agree completely, it's not the first time this issue has occurred in football either.

Personally, I expect them to ignore what Fifa say and wear them anyway... they'll only get a fine.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't understand the anger. It's not a personal attack, nobody isn't going to stop and give pause for thought because 22 blokes aren't wearing a poppy for an hour and a half.

People get worked up over the weirdest of things

Where is the harm?

It would be better if they didn't wear poppies and the FA donated the fine they would have got....but didn't.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

The poppy has never been as universally accepted as the Murdoch press would bully you into believing, my grandad fought in WW2 and he absolutely hated people being wearing poppies

(mind you he was in the Gestapo)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do we have any Brits in the England and Scotland teams?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The poppy has never been as universally accepted as the Murdoch press would bully you into believing, my grandad fought in WW2 and he absolutely hated people being wearing poppies

(mind you he was in the Gestapo)"
.

For those who wish to slaughter while looking stylish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is there plans to have a one minutes silence before the game....

If not perhaps the players could spontaneously interrupt the game and hold a one minutes silence ......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

Mr"

FIFA the denizens of integrity (joke)!!

I think each of the home nations football associations should allow their players to wear their

proudly and, assuming FIFA insist on imposing a fine, absorb the costs.

It is rather sickening that a worldwide sporting organisation with such influence can impose such ridiculous rules.

I am sure it would be much different if someone was handing them a back hander!!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Is there plans to have a one minutes silence before the game....

yes, they can do whatever they want in and around the game... they can wear then on the training kit pre game, they will have the minutes silence, they can hold placcards they make up the picture of a giant poppy...

the only thing fifa have said is they can't be on the actual playing kit...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is there plans to have a one minutes silence before the game....

the only thing fifa have said is they can't be on the actual playing kit..."

Cheers Fabio ...

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

I think the players should all wear a poppy that's bigger than Kay Burley's more diamond encrusted than Katherine Jenkins's more respectful than the O in Tescos being replaced with a poppy and they should have it tattooed on their faces and anyone who doesn't is an unpatriotic traitorous lickspittle that can get out of my country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse"

What's that got to do with this topic? Totally unrelated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse"

Simply bizarre comment

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse"

You do realise that almost half a million Commonwealth Muslims fought alongside the home nations in WW1, right?

Try to remember them too on Remembrance Sunday.

Mr ddc

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse

You do realise that almost half a million Commonwealth Muslims fought alongside the home nations in WW1, right?

Try to remember them too on Remembrance Sunday.

Mr ddc"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well here's how I see it .

If the Argentinian national team had a black rose as a commemorative for those who died in the Falklands , or the Germans had a blue orchid for those who died in both world wars , we wouldn't be too happy at them wearing them when they played us .

So why should we be any different ?

It's a game if football , not a political commemorative rally .

There's simply no need to get drawn into all this nonsense . Respect the decision , and don't waste time asking them to change their rules again .

Oh , and as an aside .... you do realise it's the Sun newspaper that's behind rallying support for allowing the wearing if the poppy don't you ?

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By *hyllyphyllyMan
over a year ago

Bradford

The FA and SFA are going to defy FIFA and accept any punishment,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"If you opened a butcher's next to a mosque they'd soon complain..it the UK not frontier land..it's only making things worse"

What a pathetic response....

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I think it's silly to claim poppies aren't political. There's a big fuss made by the media if a TV presenter forgets to wear one. And it has military associations which some people just aren't comfortable with.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

If this is the most disgusting thing you've heard in a long time you must pay very little attention to the news.

This is such a pathetic fuss about nothing. You'd think poppies were being banned outright across the UK rather than just not being on some football shirts for 90 minutes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The FA and SFA are going to defy FIFA and accept any punishment,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386"
m

Showing leadership right there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The FA and SFA are going to defy FIFA and accept any punishment,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386"

Excellent. I'm sure those football players who don't want to wear the poppy will now be bullied into wearing one...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The FA and SFA are going to defy FIFA and accept any punishment,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386

Excellent. I'm sure those football players who don't want to wear the poppy will now be bullied into wearing one..."

I did wonder this. Are players allowed to defy the FA in choosing not to wear one if they don't want to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can take a back hander

Give international tournaments to countries that can't handle it

Fail time and time again to address homophobia in any real way

But you can't show your support for men and women who fought against such tyranny, a tyranny, I might add that would have seen a lot of the people of the member countries of FIFA wiped out.

Shame on everyone involved, the reactionary FIFA bosses to frightened to offend, unless it pays well, the extremist Muslims who fuck it up for normal good law abiding Muslims who are just trying to get through life without bring hassled, for burning the poppy, as bait to incite hate.

Shame on the thick dickheads, who try to turn the poppy into a game of let's piss of the Muslims.

The poppy is not a symbol of war, its one of peace, its a thank you to those who never made it back, and help for the ones who are physically home, but still fighting war every damn day, in their minds and in their dreams.

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I also think of tyhe men who were dragged from their wives, mothers, children fathers and loved ones to fight in the military of Germany, Japan, Italy and so on, war didn't need to happen, but it did, and I think its only right that we honour those who died in such a senseless way, just because their government didn't care about them, doesn't mean I don't have to

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan"

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The FA and SFA are going to defy FIFA and accept any punishment,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386

Excellent. I'm sure those football players who don't want to wear the poppy will now be bullied into wearing one...

I did wonder this. Are players allowed to defy the FA in choosing not to wear one if they don't want to?

I think it's about the right to wear one more than being made to wear one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well here's how I see it .

So why should we be any different ?

It's a game if football , not a political commemorative rally .

There's simply no need to get drawn into all this nonsense . Respect the decision , and don't waste time asking them to change their rules again .

Oh , and as an aside .... you do realise it's the Sun newspaper that's behind rallying support for allowing the wearing if the poppy don't you ?

The poppy is a commemoration of all dead. Poppies grow best in disturbed earth ( ie trenches). That's the symbolism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks"

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

There shouldn't be fines , they should donate the money to the poppy appeal

I agree totally and the footballers should ignore the ban and collectively pay any fines ,after all not like they can't afford it is it

xx"

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily."

We all committed war crimes buddy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily."

There is a particular problem with the Irish and the modern Poppy symbol. The Poppy has been coopted to be a symbol of *all* modern wars that the British Armed Forces have fought in. We are encouraged to not only remember those who have died in WW1 and WW2, but also the Falklands, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc etc.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

We all committed war crimes buddy"

And only those committed by Britain seem to matter...

The Irish forget too readily. The complete colonisation of Scotland and the isle of Man. Forcing Gaelic on them. 'Scot' comes from latin for 'Gael'. Wonder how that happened? Oh but that is ancient history! You can't complain when the Scots went back to Ulster and took the land. They were just going back home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial."

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical."

It's not a competition, you know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical.

It's not a competition, you know."

Of course not. Who could win such a competition when the "victims" and "oppressers" have already been decided?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely the symbolism of a poppy is an individual freedom of expression and those who try too force fitting their motivation regards how others should view that individual freedom of expression have completely lost the plot of what an individual freedom of expression means..

Shame on anyone trying to enforce their motive for wearing a poppy or not....

No-ones motive has more or lesser value than anyone's else's motive for choosing to either wearing one or not...

I rest my case...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Surely the symbolism of a poppy is an individual freedom of expression and those who try too force fitting their motivation regards how others should view that individual freedom of expression have completely lost the plot of what an individual freedom of expression means..

Shame on anyone trying to enforce their motive for wearing a poppy or not....

No-ones motive has more or lesser value than anyone's else's motive for choosing to either wearing one or not...

I rest my case...

Well said.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

But you can't show your support for men and women who fought against such tyranny...

Of course you can, get yourself down to thepoppyball.org, don't forget to click on our sponsors links* or join in the auction**

*BAE systems & Sphinx guns

**Lots include a day at sea on a warship, A days sniper training & lunch on a navy submarine

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If the FA are really this concerned then all they need to do is forgo all of the pitch side electronic hoarding board advertising, and replace the usual adverts of McDonalds, Easy Jet, Sky etc. and fill the hoardings with electronic images of poppies for this match.....in fact get these usual advertisers to pay for it!

Millions of Brits will be wearing a poppy on the day, we don't need to see it on an armband of a footballer to remind us of what the day means.

If I see a poppy on the lapel of someone in the street I know they care about the significance of the little flower.....if I were to see it on the armband of a footballer I'd see it as an instruction of the FA for that player to wear it whether the individual cared about the poppy or not.

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical."

Irish hands aren't clean but then the irish team aren't trying to wear an Easter lily on their tops either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical.

Irish hands aren't clean but then the irish team aren't trying to wear an Easter lily on their tops either"

Pretty sure they recently wore a top commemorating the easter uprising. The dates 1916 and 2016 were on it

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

"Your" past?

Who is "your"? The British? The Irish forget their war crimes oh too easily.

And therein lies the problem. The Poppy is now a symbol of the British Armed Forces - not just the death in WW1 and WW2.

And, unfortunately, the British Armed Forces have committed atrocities in Ireland within living memory. People have been murdered by 'our boys' (and girls) in Ireland. In living memory.

Which is one of the reasons that the Poppy, as a symbol, is so controversial.

And the people in power now, in Ulster, never committed them? Sinn Fein's hands are clean?

Typical.

Irish hands aren't clean but then the irish team aren't trying to wear an Easter lily on their tops either

Pretty sure they recently wore a top commemorating the easter uprising. The dates 1916 and 2016 were on it "

So I read today. And that would be similar to the reasonable black armband that has been suggested here for England IMO. Reasonable

But I said the Easter lily,which also commemerates the 1916 rising but has been used by all kinds of para republicans and could offend others

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks"

Yeah I'm thinking of my uncles, who along with my mother were born in Dublin, I don't know enough about the politics of the Irish republic and the struggles so encountered to comment properly on the subject, but I remember ALL soldiers who lost their lives for what amounts to the ego of men in charge

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes it is... but they were happy to let the Republic of Ireland have something on their shirts marking the Centenary of the Easter Rising. if you allow one, you've got to allow them all, surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I support west brom, and I know that one oioif oiur p!layers James McLean will NOT be wearing a poppy, that's his choice, I respect him for standing by his principles, but he should no more be forced to wear one, than the rest of thee players forced not to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd have though the Irish would be too embarrassed about supporting the Nazi's and sheltering Ss officers wanted for crimes against humanity after the war, to wade in on the poppy debate. My grandad took part in d day. He was also there at the liberation of one camp. Of course FIFA is headquartered in Switzerland, a country that profiteered from the holocaust via the nazi loot. I think they can keep their beaks out of this to be frank.

I hope we both wear them, get points deducted, and miss out on the godawful Russian World Cup which is starting to resemble Hitler's olympics more and more every day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd have though the Irish would be too embarrassed about supporting the Nazi's and sheltering Ss officers wanted for crimes against humanity after the war, to wade in on the poppy debate. My grandad took part in d day. He was also there at the liberation of one camp. Of course FIFA is headquartered in Switzerland, a country that profiteered from the holocaust via the nazi loot. I think they can keep their beaks out of this to be frank.

I hope we both wear them, get points deducted, and miss out on the godawful Russian World Cup which is starting to resemble Hitler's olympics more and more every day. "

Please ignore most of the above. I'm on one today, and the vast majority of the Irish certainly were not Nazi sympathisers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yay.........and finally we arrive at Godwin's Law,,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I support west brom, and I know that one oioif oiur p!layers James McLean will NOT be wearing a poppy, that's his choice, I respect him for standing by his principles, but he should no more be forced to wear one, than the rest of thee players forced not to"

I'd like James McLean to visit Auschwitz, then visit the war cemetery's in northern France, and tell me those boys don't deserve a little respect and remembrance for standing up to be counted in one of mankinds darkest hours. He makes a great living in this country. Perhaps playing in the Irish league would suit his sensibilities a bit more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yay.........and finally we arrive at Godwin's Law,,,,

Poppies, Armstice day... I won't apologise for mentioning Nazis. I do think there's relevance...

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By *kcoupleCouple
over a year ago

.....

"yes it is... but they were happy to let the Republic of Ireland have something on their shirts marking the Centenary of the Easter Rising. if you allow one, you've got to allow them all, surely?"

Wrong. They weren't happy to let us do it. It hadn't even been noticed until the English and Scottish FA's pointed it out in an act of sour grapes. I'm an Irish season ticket holder and the vast majority of people I have spoken to believe any form of political statement has no place in football and very few opted to by the 1916/2016 centenary jeasry for that reason when we travelled to France for the Euros. It's clearly stated that it won't be allowed anyway. I'm very proud of our history but I'm also proud of my great grandfather who fought in the British military.

It's not about hammering the pride people have in the British army. I want my son to play in a sport that doesn't symbolize historic hatred or wars. Some might see it as an act if pride but it's sure to offend many in a sport that could do without more confrontation

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By *kcoupleCouple
over a year ago

.....

I hope we both wear them, get points deducted, and miss out on the godawful Russian World Cup which is starting to resemble Hitler's olympics more and more every day. "

You forget the part about hundreds of thousands of Irish starved and slaughtered over centuries of rule by the queen. At the time they certainly wouldn't have been embarrassed about it but you failed to take into account the historical context of what went before. Support the British who plundered and murdered us for the sake of it or the Nazis who might stop the British. Keep in mind my great grandfather fought for the British and I'm very proud of that fact. Your view just needs a little but if context added

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

You should visit Derry, James mc cleans hometown and home to the Bloody Sunday massacre in 1972 where the british army killed 14 innocent civilians on a civil rights march.

That poppy carries a long and varied history

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

having been to the places that you refer to and being at the Menin gate on duty for the evening ceremony or remembrance I disagree that anyone no matter what living they make have to wear the poppy..

go down that line and how different are we from some societies past and present where anyone who exercises their right to free thinking is controlled by the 'majority' or the state..

he may fully respect the sacrifices made in his own way or he may not and that's fine, where he to be desecrating a memorial or showing disrespect to a minutes silence then yes that should be addressed..

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

Btw the irish jersies were to celebrate 100 years as a republic. Not celebrating our armies that got it

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By *edvanmanMan
over a year ago

Romford

why should we pay a fine it's a charity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So everyone harking on about how it's not political. Not about war. Not about this that or the other ....

Have a quick look at the thread and tell me that .

Bloody stupid to turn a game if football into this , and I for one wish we never asked in the first place .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s November again, time once more for the country to be engulfed in a national demeanour of solemn remembrance. We’re all expected to remember ‘our heroes’ and the valuable work they carry out on ‘our’ behalf.

We’re told this helps prevent future wars from happening - learning from our mistakes by never forgetting! The idea presumably being that the best way to support those who’ve suffered from armed conflict is to wear a red poppy and remember in silence.

The newly invented tradition of implanting Earl Haig Poppies (EHP) onto football shirts has once again occurred as part of this ever-increasing hero-fication of British militarism. For previously questioning this practice (and its wider agenda), Celtic fans’ ‘anti-Britishness’ has been highlighted in an outraged Scottish press. We’ve been branded “shameful”, “ignorant” and “hate-filled”. The media’s narrow framework (or as sociologists call it, discursive formation) frames the debate as IRA sympathiser opposing UK soldier-hero.

Yet, this narrow framework conveniently prevents the wider legitimate contexts from being discussed. Remembrance Day has become the headline act in a year-round “remembering heroes” production designed to silence critical voices of the UK’s invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Support the troops! Never forget! Help the heroes! Support the war on terror! Who can object to that? But what exactly does it mean? That’s the point of such PR slogans. They’re meaningless platitudes! Of course, there is something meaningful. But they don’t want us to think about that. As Noam Chomsky states, “You want to create a slogan that nobody’s going to be against, and everybody’s going to be for. Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn’t mean anything. Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: Do you support our policy?”

This is where poppies on football shirts come in. In 2007, when the policies of invading Afghanistan and Iraq faced increasing scrutiny – amid increasing body counts and damning inquiries - British army chief, General Dannatt called for greater public support of ‘the troops’. Hey presto, a multi-agency campaign of newly created “support the troops” initiatives emerged.

From homecoming parades and armed forces day, to the X-factor’s song for heroes and Miss England being replaced by a serving British soldier (Combat Barbie), most of our cultural practices have been infiltrated with support the troops ideology. Poppies on football shirts is the mere tip of the iceberg....

John Kelly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're FIFA, they have their rules....and have clearly demonstrated their commitment to the following of rules....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They're FIFA, they have their rules....and have clearly demonstrated their commitment to the following of rules...."

and with such an blemish free history of abiding by their owns rules too....

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By *orkiecplCouple
over a year ago

York

I would have a minutes silence before game started and make sure that they plenty of poppy sellers at the stadium so every fan can wear one plus let's have some poppy posters on the stadium approach oh and let's have a big poppy on the big screen pre match and half time too and just to rub it in let's have a military band at the end of match play the last post with the famous poem on big screen whilst all fans stand in silence to protest this horrific stance by FIFI if both teams loss 3 points so be it something's R more important than football draw the line this far no further the poppy is not a weapon to be used by FIFI

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would have a minutes silence before game started and make sure that they plenty of poppy sellers at the stadium so every fan can wear one plus let's have some poppy posters on the stadium approach oh and let's have a big poppy on the big screen pre match and half time too and just to rub it in let's have a military band at the end of match play the last post with the famous poem on big screen whilst all fans stand in silence to protest this horrific stance by FIFI if both teams loss 3 points so be it something's R more important than football draw the line this far no further the poppy is not a weapon to be used by FIFI "

Nor is it a weapon to be used by English and Scottish football associations . Hence why FIFA said no . It has no relevance to a football match .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And what about those fans who do not agree with the symbolism of the poppy? Should they just not attend their favourite sport?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And women. And transpeople. Not just 'the boys'.

They do deserve respect. Of course. And so do the Nazi soldiers who died for what they believed in. But I don't see anyone campaigning for Nazi badges on football kit to remember the dead.

Because that's the thing about war. It's one persons vision vs another. And the stronger side wins.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope we both wear them, get points deducted, and miss out on the godawful Russian World Cup which is starting to resemble Hitler's olympics more and more every day.

You could say that was because of the colonisation of Northern Britain by he Gael, since you use that logic. Scots like have never spoken Gaelic. Welsh and Pictish was our language until our overlord from Oyerland arrived.

The Ulster Scots are have more right to be be in Ulster that they southern Irish because of the kingdom of Dalraida. It's funny that the Irish forget their colonial past and put themselves in the role of victim every time.

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By *orkiecplCouple
over a year ago

York

please look up your histroy of both world wars and unless you would like to live in a nazi state you will see why the poopy is important and everyones grandad and great grandad fought in a war for our vfreedom wear the poppy with pride

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By *kcoupleCouple
over a year ago

.....

"please look up your histroy of both world wars and unless you would like to live in a nazi state you will see why the poopy is important and everyones grandad and great grandad fought in a war for our vfreedom wear the poppy with pride "

There is a lot to be said for cherry picking the glorious victories of battle and white washing the rest. That said I do applaud those who support their armed forces but the whole point of Fifa rules is to prevent such issues making a peaceful sporting event turn into a flash point just because you don't like following tge rules of an association you signed up to

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By *ingdong11Man
over a year ago

emsworth

"You can take a back hander

Give international tournaments to countries that can't handle it

Fail time and time again to address homophobia in any real way

But you can't show your support for men and women who fought against such tyranny, a tyranny, I might add that would have seen a lot of the people of the member countries of FIFA wiped out.

Shame on the thick dickheads, who try to turn the poppy into a game of let's piss of the Muslims.

Very well said , your post made me tear up a little .

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

November 4: Jon Snow seen on loony left C4 News without a poppy. "Why does he hate our freedoms?" asks The Sun's Trevor Kavanagh.

November 4: Daily Mail prints piece speculating that Jeremy Corbyn will wear a white poppy to the Cenotaph

November 5: The Sun prints unsourced story about muslim bus driver/muslim shop owner who asked passenger/customer to remove their poppy because it's apparently offensive to muslims

November 7: All the nationalist press unites in condemnation of footballer James McClean for refusing, again, to wear a poppy during West Brom's game against Leicester because he's from Derry. Forgetting they did this story after this weekend's football too. He is, of course, booed by opposition fans.

November 8: remnants of Anjem Chowdrey's bunch of loons burn a single poppy on Luton high street. Are immediately arrested and charged with a hate crime.

November 9: Labour press office releases exasperated press release explaining for the 100th time that, no, Jeremy Corbyn will not be wearing a white poppy to the Cenotaph

November 11: England play Scotland, with both teams dressed up as giant poppies. The nationalist press unites to praise the respect shown to...whatever it is that poppies represent. We can't actually remember at this point. Both teams are docked 15 points and neither will go to the World Cup.

November 14: The Sun claims Jeremy Corbyn farted during yesterday's minutes silence at the Cenotaph to show his open disrespect for...whatever it is that poppies are about these days... something to do with doing as you're told otherwise you're a nazi or paedo or communist or Jew or get out of my country isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should visit Derry, James mc cleans hometown and home to the Bloody Sunday massacre in 1972 where the british army killed 14 innocent civilians on a civil rights march.

That poppy carries a long and varied history"

Visit warrington where two ten year old boys were blown up by the brave soldiers of the IRA. Enneskillen? Bring up the troubles and we'll be here til kingdom come! The arseholes on both sides were as bad as each other.

And another thing- Guinness- it tastes like mud! There I've done it now...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

By not wearing a poppy, James McClean is exercising his rights, that were secured for us all by the men and women who fought and died, I see no more fitting tribute

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By *rishman75Man
over a year ago

Chessington/epsom

He said he would wear one if it had the dates of world war 1 & 2 but not after that. He has seen te troubles in the north and he has seen friends been treated badly for been a Catholic and beating up so it's his choice ! But fifa are wrong to ban the poppies on the shirts .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He said he would wear one if it had the dates of world war 1 & 2 but not after that. He has seen te troubles in the north and he has seen friends been treated badly for been a Catholic and beating up so it's his choice ! But fifa are wrong to ban the poppies on the shirts ."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Quite right he wouldn't want to commemorate the shameful stuff afterwards. I suppose I never considered that in wearing the poppy he would be commemorating British soldiers actions in the troubles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He died d*unk early one morning, alone in a land he fought to save, 2 inch's of water in a lonely ditch was a grave for ira hayes.

They call him d*unken ira Hayes but his land is just as dry and his ghost is lying thirsty in a ditch were a para died.....

You do know 1.5 million "Irish" people are British don't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Madness i tell thee,, madness

Next thing we know both teams players have to wear the same colour strips and all be number 1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with you totally, it's to remember the fallen that sacrificed their life so we could live ours as we do today, nothing to do with politics it's a tradition

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He died d*unk early one morning, alone in a land he fought to save, 2 inch's of water in a lonely ditch was a grave for ira hayes.

They call him d*unken ira Hayes but his land is just as dry and his ghost is lying thirsty in a ditch were a para died.....

You do know 1.5 million "Irish" people are British don't you?"

Absolutely right. They colonised Scotland, made Gaelic Scotland's language for over 1000 years and then complain when the Gaels of south west Scotland go back to Ulster. The hypocrisy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. It's a symbol of remembrance for those who have lost lives and those who have lost loved ones, from all sides in every conflict. That's how I see it anyway.

FIFA need to understand that the poppy is not a political symbol.

I agree totally and the footballers should ignore the ban and collectively pay any fines ,after all not like they can't afford it is it

xx"

i think this is what will happen - and its only going to be a problem IF somebody complains

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"November 11: England play Scotland, with both teams dressed up as giant poppies."

I'd watch this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was specifically intended, upon its introduction in 1921 to commemorate those who fell in World War I, the war to end all wars. Inspired by the Canadian John McCrae poem, In Flanders Fields:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

Nothing to do with the Nazi's. The fact that wars persist is in many ways like spitting on the graves of all who fell in WWI.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not commenting my views on the ban or what the teams should do, but poppies don't just have meaning to us. I remember a few years ago David Cameron wore one during a visit to China, which caused a bit of annoyance over there as to China, the poppy is a reminder of its defeat in the Opium Wars in the 19th century. In current Chinese education, these defeats are seen as a massive humiliation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"November 11: England play Scotland, with both teams dressed up as giant poppies.

I'd watch this

And people say modern footballers are pansies. Poppies would make a change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He died d*unk early one morning, alone in a land he fought to save, 2 inch's of water in a lonely ditch was a grave for ira hayes.

They call him d*unken ira Hayes but his land is just as dry and his ghost is lying thirsty in a ditch were a para died.....

You do know 1.5 million "Irish" people are British don't you?

Absolutely right. They colonised Scotland, made Gaelic Scotland's language for over 1000 years and then complain when the Gaels of south west Scotland go back to Ulster. The hypocrisy."
.

That's a simple truth of a very complicated situation of mistrust,backhand deals, religious differences and inequality

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks"

Kildare, last time I checked, is not in the United Kingdom. This is a match between England and Scotland who both give the impression of wanting to wear the poppy. If Germans Argentinians or Irishmen don't want to be offended -don't watch! It appears you don't live in this country so why are you so up in arms?

Another thing, During 190 years of British Empire’s looting and pillaging, the Indian Subcontinent as a whole underwent at least two dozen major famines, which collectively killed millions of Indians throughout the length and breadth of the land. And yet the Indians don't bang on about it constantly!

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

You should visit Derry, James mc cleans hometown and home to the Bloody Sunday massacre in 1972 where the british army killed 14 innocent civilians on a civil rights march.

That poppy carries a long and varied history

And another thing- Guinness- it tastes like mud! There I've done it now..."

This is true. Horrible things happen in war

That is why I'd be equally against the irish team wearing an Easter lily.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was specifically intended, upon its introduction in 1921 to commemorate those who fell in World War I, the war to end all wars. Inspired by the Canadian John McCrae poem, In Flanders Fields:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

Nothing to do with the Nazi's. The fact that wars persist is in many ways like spitting on the graves of all who fell in WWI.

"
.

Not forgetting Kipling's poem of recessional where we get the line lest we forget from..

If, d*unk with sight of power, we loose Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,Such boastings as the Gentiles use, Or lesser breeds without the Law,lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,

Lest we forget—lest we forget!

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

When I buy my poppy, I think of my uncles who fought in ww2, I thinknof my best friends dad who died on the Falkland islands, I thinknof friends who have caught in Iraq and Afghanistan

That's because the poppy is a symbol of your military past and present

That's why it has no place in international football

It's forced down ppls necks in uk it seems but you can't force it down rest of worlds necks

International football dude. Same rules apply to all.

Ye millions of Indians died from famine under british rule. And you wonder why we have a problem with the poppy

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

If we're going to post poems that show how awful WWI was:

At The Cenotaph

I saw the Prince of Darkness, with his Staff,

Standing bare-headed by the Cenotaph:

Unostentatious and respectful, there

He stood, and offered up the following prayer.

'Make them forget, O Lord, what this Memorial

Means; their discredited ideas revive;

Breed new belief that War is purgatorial

Proof of the pride and power of being alive;

Men's biologic urge to readjust

The Map of Europe, Lord of Hosts, increase;

Lift up their hearts in large destructive lust;

And crown their heads with blind vindictive Peace.'

The Prince of Darkness to the Cenotaph

Bowed. As he walked away I heard him laugh.

Siegfried Sassoon

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This thread has reminded me that the Muslims are the new Irish, I wonder how many years it will take for everyone to wantvto be Muslim once a year

(St Patrick's day) on that subject, any one who doubts the credentials of st Patrick, when was the last time YOU saw a fucking snake in Ireland, he was like an Irish Samuel l Jackson

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