FabSwingers.com forum: You are not [legal name]

By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

You are not [legal name]

The truth

It is illegal to use a legal name

Looooooooooooool... Someone has more money than sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are not [legal name]

The truth

It is illegal to use a legal name

Looooooooooooool... Someone has more money than sense."

Have been seeng lots of these in the last year or so, absolute gibberish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Eh? That's gone right over my head but I'll take your word for it

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

It's someone with a lot of spare cash, who is trying to have a go at the government. He or she is objecting to the government giving out legal entities to people. True story!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I.... I don't get it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i watched a video of a guy who left his court summons on the table to be tried in place of himself. think he got done for breach of court as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should I be feeling stupid now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is this that sovereign citizen rubbish?

They regularly get chewed up and spat out in courts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is this that sovereign citizen rubbish?

They regularly get chewed up and spat out in courts"

Something similar I think yeah

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By *workoutMan
over a year ago

Cradley Heath

"Should I be feeling stupid now?"

Came to read thread, felt stupid, looked at your pics, felt better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are not [legal name]

The truth

It is illegal to use a legal name

Looooooooooooool... Someone has more money than sense."

These adverts make my brain hurt

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

Flagrante

Not a clue what this is about even after a few posts.

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By *exysuzi and Mr.SCouple
over a year ago

CONISTON .Stoke Suburbia. Staffs. BARMOUTH. The Lakes (Monthly)

Ermmmmmm

... ok ..... whatever.... what the hell..... I don't get it

Suzi xxxxxx

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By *ivemeyoursoulWoman
over a year ago

Easter just around the corner!

Ok that's clear as mud

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is this one of those tin foil hat conspiracies that bounce around the t'interweb?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fairly popular in the US in the loony anti federal fringe.

Something along the lines of variations of there is no agreed contract between the individual and the State so the State has no jurisdiction.

Earth shattering legal arguments usually used to try and get out of a speeding ticket

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"Fairly popular in the US in the loony anti federal fringe.

Something along the lines of variations of there is no agreed contract between the individual and the State so the State has no jurisdiction.

Earth shattering legal arguments usually used to try and get out of a speeding ticket

Yep;

To use a technical term; it's a load of bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's the conspiracy theory for conspiracy theory fans....but there's a lot of money being ploughed in to it by somebody (investigations haven't managed to find out who yet but - surprise surprise - it's been traced to somewhere in the southern states of the US.

The posters were quite interesting, and a little disturbing, when they first starting appearing a year or so ago - but I barely even notice them now.

The only real issue is that naive and vulnerable people are being drawn in to something which can potentially have serious consequences for them - for example, by refusing to accept the power of courts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is annoying that just because you were born you instantly become part of society. Expected to work and pay tax for the greater good before dying. Rather than living your life as God intended. Everything in our lives is a distraction while we are on the conveyor belt to oblivion. How did you spend your one and only lifetime on Earth? "I watched sky sports and tried to win the lottery while cheating on my loved one". No wonder God has given up on us.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

It all comes down to expecting payment for something that has not been earned.IMHO

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"It is annoying that just because you were born you instantly become part of society. Expected to work and pay tax for the greater good before dying. Rather than living your life as God intended. Everything in our lives is a distraction while we are on the conveyor belt to oblivion. How did you spend your one and only lifetime on Earth? "I watched sky sports and tried to win the lottery while cheating on my loved one". No wonder God has given up on us."

Yeah, I tried quoting Matthew 6 (why do you worry about clothes? Consider the lilies in the field and how they grow. They don't work or spin yarn) when up for flashing.

Bastard judge threw that argument out too

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This whole "legal name" thing is utter, total nonsense that basically says you're only subject to the law if you chose to be. It's a childish fantasy embraced by people who don't like the fact that they can't do anything they please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Knew someone who was doing this. All seems like a load of rubbish to me. Google "freeman of the land" They renounce their birth name and think that makes you above the law of the land. Did read that some guy tried it in the court in the US. Judge sent him to a mental unit for evaluation.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

Ok, basically, what it is is that someone with a lot of money, and (they don't want to be known), feels strongly about the government giving out legal entities to people. As soon as you're born, they give you a legal identity. That legal identity is used to represent you in matters regarding the law.

For example, my house, my legal entity (my name, dob, etc) owns my house, my legal entity has car insurance on my car, etc.

It's someone who is against the gov assigning legal entities.

If you think about it, it's a ludicrous idea that in modern society we could go without legal identities.

There are a group of people who come from a certain close country, who tend to own caravans, who live in this way. It causes chaos.

Anyway, that's what its about.

It's a concept of which would be used to avoid control from our government.

In my opinion, a dangerous concept!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The whole idea that you have a "legal entity" that is given to you by the government is mistaken. That's the problem. The entire argument is based on myth - and the people pushing the idea know it. Why do I say that?

With the exception of a handful of deluded tre believers, the people who sell this idea (and they are selling it, through courses and DVDs claiming to show people how to use these methods to evadetheir obligations) DON'T use these methods themselves when they find themselves in court. Because they know it's a scam.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

"The whole idea that you have a "legal entity" that is given to you by the government is mistaken. That's the problem. The entire argument is based on myth - and the people pushing the idea know it. Why do I say that?

I strongly disagree with your first paragraph there. Lol.

You definitely do have a legal entity, well I definitely do anyway. My kids do too, and everyone I know does. I (my legal name) had a legal obligation to apply for my kids entities so many days after they were born.

And these ARE given by the government too. The documentation which forms a summary of this record is your birth certificate.

Without your legal name, you're unable to get car insurance, a mortgage, a bank account, etc.

We definitely do have legal entities!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's proof of identity, not a separate legal entity.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

"That's proof of identity, not a separate legal entity. "

I'm really not with you there lol.

A birth certificate is a certificate showing details of your legal entity.

If I didn't have a legal entity, you woukdnt be able to do a great number of things! How could you even get a driving license?!?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's proof of identity, not a separate legal entity.

I'm really not with you there lol.

A birth certificate is a certificate showing details of your legal entity.

If I didn't have a legal entity, you woukdnt be able to do a great number of things! How could you even get a driving license?!?!"

OK, I think I may be doing you a disservice here because I don't think you're using the term "legal entity" the way I'm understanding it, or the way that the "illegal to use a legal name" peddlers would. What you're describing is more like legal acknowledgement that you exist and are who you say you are.

What the Freemen-on-the-land types argue is that the government creates a legal entity which they attach to you at birth, which is responsible for all the obligations you are told you have, AND WHICH YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REJECT RESPONSIBILITY FOR.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

It's all nonsense;

Confusing your existence with proof of identity.

You are a legal entity , simply by existing.

As such, whether you like it or not, you are bound by the laws of the country you live in.

Your " name" as recorded on your birth certificate gives you as an entity, a recorded identity . Then you get stuff like a national insurance number, to access the nation's facilities.

And that is your " official name" for all purposes.( passports, driving licenses, tax etc)

However, under English law, it is perfectly legal to be known by any name you choose; but for official purposes you use the official name.

( in some countries it is illegal to use any name other than your legal name for anything.)

So all these " legal name" idiots are confusing your " existence" as an entity; with the name.

If an official document arrives, with your " official "( birth certificate) name on it, then it applies to you. End .

You can't go round saying it's not you.

Funnily enough, all these people who object to "legal name" seem to forget their objections when they get a passport, or have a bank account, or claim welfare off the state .....

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

"It's all nonsense;

Confusing your existence with proof of identity.

You are a legal entity , simply by existing.

As such, whether you like it or not, you are bound by the laws of the country you live in.

Your " name" as recorded on your birth certificate gives you as an entity, a recorded identity . Then you get stuff like a national insurance number, to access the nation's facilities.

And that is your " official name" for all purposes.( passports, driving licenses, tax etc)

However, under English law, it is perfectly legal to be known by any name you choose; but for official purposes you use the official name.

( in some countries it is illegal to use any name other than your legal name for anything.)

So all these " legal name" idiots are confusing your " existence" as an entity; with the name.

If an official document arrives, with your " official "( birth certificate) name on it, then it applies to you. End .

You can't go round saying it's not you.

Funnily enough, all these people who object to "legal name" seem to forget their objections when they get a passport, or have a bank account, or claim welfare off the state ....."

This is exactly my understanding also.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it is true though, that you haven't entered a contract with anyone about adhering to the laws. just being born in a place where there are laws shouldn't mean you automatically are obliged to consent to them.

loads of people break laws all the time and get away with it, so i guess they too agree.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"it is true though, that you haven't entered a contract with anyone about adhering to the laws. just being born in a place where there are laws shouldn't mean you automatically are obliged to consent to them.

loads of people break laws all the time and get away with it, so i guess they too agree."

It's immaterial, because you don't " enter a contract" you just start to exist in that society.

It's just a fact. That is why no one has to apply to become a citizen of their own country. They just are . Though the UK does, in theory, violate that principle, since children, born to British parents overseas, do have to be " naturalized" as British.

Interestingly, of course, when you become a citizen of another country ( as I have) you generally do have to " sign a contract". In as much as I have agreed to maintain, uphold, and abide by the principles of French citizens.

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By *ohnjones3210 OP Man
over a year ago

Chester

loads of people break laws all the time and get away with it, so i guess they too agree."

You don't need to enter a contract to be able to be under the control of an organisation, you simply need to be under it's recognised or asserted remit.

This is similar. By bring born in a country, you are subject to those laws whether you accept then or not. In the UK, this is the law and people born here are legally obliged to obey, regardless of their opinions.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I was with you for the first few words...... then you said God.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

loads of people break laws all the time and get away with it, so i guess they too agree.

You don't need to enter a contract to be able to be under the control of an organisation, you simply need to be under it's recognised or asserted remit.

i wasn't born to obey anyone else, i do think a lot of laws make sense so i willingly adhere to them.

how many people don't fulfil their true potential because society says they shouldn't?

and it used to be illegal to be gay, promiscuous, and all other kinds of weird shit. we (not me personally) had to fight for the right to be gay and have sex out of wedlock, lol. fuck those laws eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

loads of people break laws all the time and get away with it, so i guess they too agree.

It's immaterial, because you don't " enter a contract" you just start to exist in that society.

exactly. i can't even get a passport. this country has legally made it so i am it's prisoner. i could break the law and get out though, if i had the money to do that.

and money makes you above laws so all laws are moot now, imo.

also see my above reply, some laws were made to be broken and no society had the right to shame people for being who they are, even right now pardons for being gay are being blocked by this government, not really any of their business to tell gay people they are abominations against this society and they should fuck right off with that.

and drug users, lets prosecute people who haven't harmed anyone just because they have the potential to based off how some drug users harm others. fucking stupid if you ask me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you dont become a legal entity just by existing, you become one by having your birth registered with the crown, if you are NOT registered with the crown, then their laws dont apply to you, the reason so many cases get thrown out of court is because free people have to either find a person with clear understanding of both civil and common law or present themselves in court, as lawyers swear an oath to the crown, they will not protect a free persons interests, only a legal persons.....if you dont know the difference, the chances are you'll never need to know, but for those who know the difference, its a way of protecting yourself from any company/persons WILL other than your own

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok went off track there... but basically most people will obey laws because it makes sense to, or they just want to live within in them and it causes them no problems.

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

we don't even have the right to lock people in prison for harming others but i understand why we do because it keeps us all safer. which is why governments tend to pull out the safety thing every time they want to restrict us from doing things they don't like.

but philosophically, nobody really has the right to tell you how to live your life, nobody. and most certainly not just because you were born into a country they think they own and take taxes off you on everything you do, pretty much everything.

you eat? you pay your owners vat on that. lol, like i said stupid.

you work? you pay your owners for the privilege.

you don't wanna be naked? pay your owners on that too.

and yeah i know taxes go on loads of things but your owners got a good pay rise recently under austerity measures...can you see where it all doesn't make sense to obey 'laws'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are not [legal name]

The truth

It is illegal to use a legal name

Looooooooooooool... Someone has more money than sense."

Too right!

It's similar to the Freemen on the Land rubbish. It's actually worth reading up on that, it's a great laugh! Especially when they end up in the nick for contempt of court!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

haha...it is better than sittin in watchin repeats on tele though....nowt wrong with challenging the judge every now and again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok went off track there... but basically most people will obey laws because it makes sense to, or they just want to live within in them and it causes them no problems.

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you eat? you pay your owners vat on that. lol, like i said stupid.

you work? you pay your owners for the privilege.

you don't wanna be naked? pay your owners on that too.

and yeah i know taxes go on loads of things but your owners got a good pay rise recently under austerity measures...can you see where it all doesn't make sense to obey 'laws'?"

I don't obey all laws..

I know what your driving at..like who the fuck has the right to tell me what the hell I can do? If my action harms nobody then I do not care if it's legal or not.

I don't go about raging against government or laws though as it seems to me that if you quietly just go about life as you wish to then you can get away with a hell of alot

What about other entities though..should they follow the law? Should corporations pay tax just because there told they should? Things like that?

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

While I can (kind of) understand the argument that people should be able to withdraw from society, in truth few people actually do. So if you wish to be part of society, one has to accept the 'rules', just like any club.

Also, whilst we might complain about the taxes we pay, the truth is that the majority of households are net recipients. If you include our future pensions, the figure you would have to earn to become a net contributor would surprise you. Guaranteed

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok went off track there... but basically most people will obey laws because it makes sense to, or they just want to live within in them and it causes them no problems.

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you eat? you pay your owners vat on that. lol, like i said stupid.

you work? you pay your owners for the privilege.

you don't wanna be naked? pay your owners on that too.

and yeah i know taxes go on loads of things but your owners got a good pay rise recently under austerity measures...can you see where it all doesn't make sense to obey 'laws'?

I don't obey all laws..

I know what your driving at..like who the fuck has the right to tell me what the hell I can do? If my action harms nobody then I do not care if it's legal or not.

I don't go about raging against government or laws though as it seems to me that if you quietly just go about life as you wish to then you can get away with a hell of alot

What about other entities though..should they follow the law? Should corporations pay tax just because there told they should? Things like that? "

that's what not your name means. that you're a person in your own right and not the property of this country just because you were born here and have a birth certificate.

you weren't old enough to enter any legal contract when that certificate was signed. circumstances shouldn't dictate that you have to be something, but the whole system is set up so that this can happen.

if anyone should obey laws it should be corporations, seeing as they made an informed choice to trade here and profit off the people knowing there would be taxes to pay on that.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"you dont become a legal entity just by existing, you become one by having your birth registered with the crown, if you are NOT registered with the crown, then their laws dont apply to you, the reason so many cases get thrown out of court is because free people have to either find a person with clear understanding of both civil and common law or present themselves in court, as lawyers swear an oath to the crown, they will not protect a free persons interests, only a legal persons.....if you dont know the difference, the chances are you'll never need to know, but for those who know the difference, its a way of protecting yourself from any company/persons WILL other than your own

Sorry but that is complete bollocks.

It is a basis of law ( and that is statute and common law,) that by existing, you are a legal entity; and bound by the laws of the land.

It's simple really, and there is no way round it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok went off track there... but basically most people will obey laws because it makes sense to, or they just want to live within in them and it causes them no problems.

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you eat? you pay your owners vat on that. lol, like i said stupid.

you work? you pay your owners for the privilege.

you don't wanna be naked? pay your owners on that too.

and yeah i know taxes go on loads of things but your owners got a good pay rise recently under austerity measures...can you see where it all doesn't make sense to obey 'laws'?

I don't obey all laws..

I know what your driving at..like who the fuck has the right to tell me what the hell I can do? If my action harms nobody then I do not care if it's legal or not.

I don't go about raging against government or laws though as it seems to me that if you quietly just go about life as you wish to then you can get away with a hell of alot

What about other entities though..should they follow the law? Should corporations pay tax just because there told they should? Things like that?

that's what not your name means. that you're a person in your own right and not the property of this country just because you were born here and have a birth certificate.

if anyone should obey laws it should be corporations, seeing as they made an informed choice to trade here and profit off the people knowing there would be taxes to pay on that. "

It's all a bit complicated fer me..I think I'll just carry on as i was. I'm happy and do as I please, harm nobody and ignore the law like I have for years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have seen this billboards and i did go hey

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ok went off track there... but basically most people will obey laws because it makes sense to, or they just want to live within in them and it causes them no problems.

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you eat? you pay your owners vat on that. lol, like i said stupid.

you work? you pay your owners for the privilege.

you don't wanna be naked? pay your owners on that too.

and yeah i know taxes go on loads of things but your owners got a good pay rise recently under austerity measures...can you see where it all doesn't make sense to obey 'laws'?

I don't obey all laws..

I know what your driving at..like who the fuck has the right to tell me what the hell I can do? If my action harms nobody then I do not care if it's legal or not.

I don't go about raging against government or laws though as it seems to me that if you quietly just go about life as you wish to then you can get away with a hell of alot

What about other entities though..should they follow the law? Should corporations pay tax just because there told they should? Things like that?

that's what not your name means. that you're a person in your own right and not the property of this country just because you were born here and have a birth certificate.

if anyone should obey laws it should be corporations, seeing as they made an informed choice to trade here and profit off the people knowing there would be taxes to pay on that.

It's all a bit complicated fer me..I think I'll just carry on as i was. I'm happy and do as I please, harm nobody and ignore the law like I have for years

it's not that complicated really lol. i'm just going into too many things. well, maybe the legal name thing is way more complicated as they don't want to be recognised at all as a citizen.

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"it's not that complicated really lol. i'm just going into too many things. well, maybe the legal name thing is way more complicated as they don't want to be recognised at all as a citizen.

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically."

The legal name thing isn't complicated, it's bollocks!

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically."

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws.

2. "Some laws are unjust" - sure; and as the society at large , by concensus, agree with that, the society changes the law. Which is done by convincing your representatives to do something about it, or in more extreme cases, protests, campaigns, etc.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you are VERY mistaken, show me the law and relevant section that states this.

so why do you think gypsies are born IN the country but are NOT bound by the laws?

the only different is legal registration and force of will

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The more of an arsehole you are, the more arseholes you'll meet - Platoon (abridged)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"you are VERY mistaken, show me the law and relevant section that states this.

so why do you think gypsies are born IN the country but are NOT bound by the laws?

the only different is legal registration and force of will "

Er, what?

Since when are Gypsies not bound by the law? Of course they are!

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a very bizarre conversation, but one of the basic freedoms we have is that you can believe whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is a very bizarre conversation, but one of the basic freedoms we have is that you can believe whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous

True, very true!

It does become an issue though with those who think that all opinions are equally valid. In some cases that's fair enough; for example I'm wearing a red top, I like it, you may not, both are equally valid. But in many cases this view is fundamentally wrong and can be dangerous; discrimination for instance. In others it's just plain wrong; refusing to accept that the universe wasn't created as per bible for example.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

[Removed by poster at 26/10/16 15:53:39]

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"you are VERY mistaken, show me the law and relevant section that states this.

so why do you think gypsies are born IN the country but are NOT bound by the laws?

the only different is legal registration and force of will "

Gypsies. Are bound by UK law.

Completely.

No ifs or buts.

And, by the way; " gypsies" i.e. Romanies ; are, by and large,a very law abiding social group; more so than many others social groups in UK.

There are other groups of " gypsies" that do avoid the law, to a greater or lesser extent, but they are still subject to it.

If they " get away with" ignoring the law; that is down to law enforcers not doing their job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law."

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

gypsies are NOT bound by law, thats why they get moved on and not arrested, they drive without registration of cars, tax ins.....not all i'm sure, but i know many that do, they have known about sovereign rights alot longer than us, and just because you maybe are unable to understand that LAWS restrict freedom of choice, and our freedoms are inherent (unlike societies man made laws)doesn't mean its bollocks.......as many folk who follow the freeman movement are overturning decisions on debts, foreclosures on homes, illegal removal of benefits and so much more for those people in poverty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you referring to the Caravan Utilising Nomadic Travelers who left a mess all over my local park?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

Um... no. So much no. Utter nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has made my head hurt. I thought once you registered your name at birth that's you legal name or are their wallys out there now saying it's not legal because it's not what they chose? It's like my son who always says when I sign his name in a card it's identity theft!! (He's 14)

G x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

Um... no. So much no. Utter nonsense."

acually its NOT, as i witnessed it myself in COURT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are you referring to the Caravan Utilising Nomadic Travelers who left a mess all over my local park?"

did you leave your local park in their FREE EARTH?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

Um... no. So much no. Utter nonsense.

acually its NOT, as i witnessed it myself in COURT

Use of capitals proves point?

Don't know why I bother but...

Was this a reported case? If so, please cite reference so we can look it up.

If not, assume we don't think you're correct as all other information supports the views I and others have given. In this case, it is not up to us to prove the accepted view of the majority, it is up to you to prove your point. So, my friend, please then cite which statue or case law supports you contention the gypsies are not bound by UK law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is a very bizarre conversation, but one of the basic freedoms we have is that you can believe whatever you like, no matter how ridiculous

It's great for my blocklist though!

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Seen a few of these lately. I do like the comment I read by a barrister about them:

"It's a kind of brew of pseudo-legal ideas. It's the equivalent of thinking Harry Potter is science."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's proof of identity, not a separate legal entity.

I'm really not with you there lol.

A birth certificate is a certificate showing details of your legal entity.

If I didn't have a legal entity, you woukdnt be able to do a great number of things! How could you even get a driving license?!?!"

I think the same. A birth certificate (from what the originator of the You Are Not A Legal Name stuff contends) is like the deeds of a house or the log book of a car on a person.

You need these things to be part of the state/society. But he is saying that we don't need them. This is why the government has made it illegal not to have a birth certificate for new borns, or a log book for a car etc

That's how I see it?

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

I don't know whether to bother not; or whether this is just chess and pigeons again;

Gypsies are bound by law;

They are " moved on" because they have been using land without permission; as it happens; using land without permission is not an offence for which you are generally arrested and detained; and it's a bit impractical to arrest , all at once, 50 people, women, children , dogs, cats, and impound all their vehicles; so if they move on; it's perfectly fine ( they are not obliged to have a fixed abode )

As to Car tax, insurance, MOT, income tax, etc, if you knew what you were talking of, you would know that Romany Gypsies actually do pay these things, by and large; most Romsny families in fact use a post box or accommodation address service to make this easier.

Other " traveller" groups may be evading these things; if they are not prosecuted for it, that's an issue for the authorities and enforcement.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

We are born on this planet and from there forced to live by others laws. A naturist used this as his defence. I know they prosecuted multiple times but how can he be wrong

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I have no idea what the debate has said, but in answer to the question, it's bollox and old news.

The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36499750

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are born on this planet and from there forced to live by others laws. A naturist used this as his defence. I know they prosecuted multiple times but how can he be wrong "

What?

'How can he be wrong'? Please explain this. It's even more strange a statement than the others above!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

I don't know whether to bother not; or whether this is just chess and pigeons again;

Gypsies are bound by law;

Other " traveller" groups may be evading these things; if they are not prosecuted for it, that's an issue for the authorities and enforcement."

i never mentioned "romany" anything

you are entitled to your 'opinion' thankfully that's nothing to do with the law

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"We are born on this planet and from there forced to live by others laws. A naturist used this as his defence. I know they prosecuted multiple times but how can he be wrong

What?

'How can he be wrong'? Please explain this. It's even more strange a statement than the others above! "
you are born then the rules of the country you were born in are forced upon you. The naturists defence was he didnt accept those laws or the eatablishment that made them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

as many folk who follow the freeman movement are overturning decisions on debts, foreclosures on homes, illegal removal of benefits and so much more for those people in poverty "

Please also cite a single instance of this happening that is in a court that sets precedent.

There are some cases where the judge clearly feels it's not in the public interest to continue the case so ends it. But that's not the same thing as it being a valid argument.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are born on this planet and from there forced to live by others laws. A naturist used this as his defence. I know they prosecuted multiple times but how can he be wrong

What?

'How can he be wrong'? Please explain this. It's even more strange a statement than the others above! you are born then the rules of the country you were born in are forced upon you. The naturists defence was he didnt accept those laws or the eatablishment that made them."

And his opinion is valid for what reason? See my post above, not all opinions are valid. And you haven't answered 'how can he be wrong'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i never mentioned "romany" anything

you are entitled to your 'opinion' thankfully that's nothing to do with the law

Except in that he's quoting the law.

Have a go in court if you like, just tell us where so we can come and watch, it'd be more fun than any comedy on tv!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

His opinion is valid because he is correct. just because society decides to conform to pre determined rules laws and boundries dosnt make it correct to the naturist these rules are forced upon him with no choice in the matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws."

I think our societies now are so vast that it's not possible to predict behviours within them or expect that now. No way are 100,000s of people gonna agree on everything that goes on and it's why we see smaller communities forming within communities. It's also why people are dissatisfied with a fair vote because not everyone being governed by a certain political ideal will want that.

"2. "Some laws are unjust" - sure; and as the society at large , by concensus, agree with that, the society changes the law. Which is done by convincing your representatives to do something about it, or in more extreme cases, protests, campaigns, etc.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation. "

but when you think about who thought they had the given right to ban gay marriage in the first place, or had the right to keep slaves, or to discriminate?

that wasn't anyone's birthright to be born into somewhere where they are told how to live and what they are based on nothing. that was someone making up rules for their own benefit, or to harm other people, and people were born into that out of circumstance and nothing more.

i think the you're not your legal name is something different to this really though, even though it's along the same lines, it's more a protest about something specific, not sure what exactly but people are breaking laws and trying to get away with that because they feel those laws are wrong OR maybe they feel like they're above the law. not sure which.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please also cite a single instance of this happening that is in a court that sets precedent.

"There are some cases where the judge clearly feels it's not in the public interest to continue the case so ends it. But that's not the same thing as it being a valid argument." "

^^^(not relevant)^^^

i never said the case set a precedent...did i? free people dont use magic, they use existing laws and their 'definitions' to their advantage, rather than to the systems advantage....namely money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i never mentioned "romany" anything

you are entitled to your 'opinion' thankfully that's nothing to do with the law

Except in that he's quoting the law.

^^^about a group i never mentioned^^^

Have a go in court if you like, just tell us where so we can come and watch, it'd be more fun than any comedy on tv! "

been there and done it MANY times thanks.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation.

but when you think about who thought they had the given right to ban gay marriage in the first place, or had the right to keep slaves, or to discriminate?

You are a bit short on history, then;

Slaves have existed since the dawn of time; and it was considered normal; therefore not illegal ( there was no law making slavery legal, dlavery was just always there) then oriole became enlightened, and passed laws to make it illegal.

Same with homosexuality; it was regarded as immoral by religions; therefore it became, by default, illegal ( Europen laws derive mainly from the Judaism-Christian religions). And then written into law ( not as homosexuality per se, but as gross indecency). When people started to accept homosexuality then it eventually was made legal.

Etc......

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

"as many folk who follow the freeman movement are overturning decisions on debts, foreclosures on homes, illegal removal of benefits and so much more for those people in poverty "

How can it be illegal removal of benefits if they aren't a legal entity? It's a two way street, if they believe they aren't bound by the law then they can't be 'legally' entitled to benefits, so it's not illegal to remove them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

being told what to do by an elite group is immoral to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"as many folk who follow the freeman movement are overturning decisions on debts, foreclosures on homes, illegal removal of benefits and so much more for those people in poverty

i never said the person who received help with benefit from a freeman was also a freeman

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i never mentioned "romany" anything

you are entitled to your 'opinion' thankfully that's nothing to do with the law

Except in that he's quoting the law.

^^^about a group i never mentioned^^^

Have a go in court if you like, just tell us where so we can come and watch, it'd be more fun than any comedy on tv!

been there and done it MANY times thanks."

You mentioned gypsies, commonally known as Romany. Did you mean another group.

You say MANY times, please quote some. Some that we can verify, that's how discussions like this work,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please also cite a single instance of this happening that is in a court that sets precedent.

"There are some cases where the judge clearly feels it's not in the public interest to continue the case so ends it. But that's not the same thing as it being a valid argument."

^^^(not relevant)^^^

i never said the case set a precedent...did i? free people dont use magic, they use existing laws and their 'definitions' to their advantage, rather than to the systems advantage....namely money."

What?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seen a few of these lately. I do like the comment I read by a barrister about them:

"It's a kind of brew of pseudo-legal ideas. It's the equivalent of thinking Harry Potter is science."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"His opinion is valid because he is correct. just because society decides to conform to pre determined rules laws and boundries dosnt make it correct to the naturist these rules are forced upon him with no choice in the matter. "

So we're applying relativity to this? By your argument his opinion may be correct but is totally irrelevant, he'll be prosecuted regardless of what he thinks. Tough but then life can be.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Show you the law? All of it, common law, statute and case law.

naw just the section that applies to your previous statement.

I don't know whether to bother not; or whether this is just chess and pigeons again;

Gypsies are bound by law;

Other " traveller" groups may be evading these things; if they are not prosecuted for it, that's an issue for the authorities and enforcement.

i never mentioned "romany" anything

you are entitled to your 'opinion' thankfully that's nothing to do with the law

Well firstly;

strictly ; Gypsies are Romany; only Romany are Gypsies.

Others calling themselves ( or called ) gypsies are traveller of various kinds.

Thank fully my "opinion" is not my opinion; it is the law;

However, again, I am playing chess with a pigeon, so I'll leave you to it in your ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You mentioned gypsies, commonally known as Romany. Did you mean another group.

^^^^^

yes..i was talking of some spanish gypsies i met, really makes no difference where they are from, as free people have no borders.

You say MANY times, please quote some. Some that we can verify, that's how discussions like this work,"

is it?...........where's your verification on any of your opinions or experiences?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please also cite a single instance of this happening that is in a court that sets precedent.

"There are some cases where the judge clearly feels it's not in the public interest to continue the case so ends it. But that's not the same thing as it being a valid argument."

^^^(not relevant)^^^

i never said the case set a precedent...did i? free people dont use magic, they use existing laws and their 'definitions' to their advantage, rather than to the systems advantage....namely money."

No you didn't say it set precedent, I did to clarify. That's how common law works. Courts interpret it. Statute overrules it. Parliament sets statute. Courts interpret statute.

Your remarks about 'free' people are interesting. They may as well try magic, their attempts to use the legal system to their advantage invariably fail, as per my comments above. Of course, feel free to prove me wrong, a single cited case would do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You mentioned gypsies, commonally known as Romany. Did you mean another group.

^^^^^

yes..i was talking of some spanish gypsies i met, really makes no difference where they are from, as free people have no borders.

You say MANY times, please quote some. Some that we can verify, that's how discussions like this work,

is it?...........where's your verification on any of your opinions or experiences? "

You clearly don't get how this works! I am arguing the mainstream view, you are arguing a fantasy. Unless, of course, you care to prove otherwise.

Chess and pigeons!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thank fully my "opinion" is not my opinion; it is the law;

"
no i'm afraid not, the law is very bending, as every word in the LAW has more than one meaning.

thats maybe why your not a lawyer, lack of objectivity

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

So we're applying relativity to this? By your argument his opinion may be correct but is totally irrelevant, he'll be prosecuted regardless of what he thinks. Tough but then life can be."
my my aint we a little grumpy today. You asked me a question I answered your question. the answer I gave dosnt give you pleasure. As quite simply its correct. So lets put relativity on the plate pmsl.like it or lump it the naturist is correct we are born free then made conform to society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no i'm afraid not, the law is very bending, as every word in the LAW has more than one meaning. "

Actually, that's the great difference between legal English and common English, the legal sort has considerably less ambiguity. True, cases hinge in interpretation but in general the language is much more precise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So we're applying relativity to this? By your argument his opinion may be correct but is totally irrelevant, he'll be prosecuted regardless of what he thinks. Tough but then life can be.my my aint we a little grumpy today. You asked me a question I answered your question. the answer I gave dosnt give you pleasure. As quite simply its correct. So lets put relativity on the plate pmsl.like it or lump it the naturist is correct we are born free then made conform to society. "

No, not particularly grumpy just a bit intolerant of irrelevant argument. We are not 'made to conform to society' we agree to live in it.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

We agree to live in it. Please explain that one as that really makes no sense. We are conditioned to conform from birth thats the truth of the matter. A pidgeon dosnt worry about indecent exposure charges when it has a dump it just does it. Why dont we ?. Im in no way against society here but the naturists argument was correct it was steamrolled over by societys laws and he was prosecuted. Dosnt change the fact that at birth we are just animals all our laws and ways of being are added as we grow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation.

but when you think about who thought they had the given right to ban gay marriage in the first place, or had the right to keep slaves, or to discriminate?

You are a bit short on history, then;

Etc......

but this is exactly what you mean by society, when you say things were considered normal. unwritten laws basically.

and i also remember the parts of history where people were robbed from and had their land stolen by those who considered themselves an authority. taxes were forcibly taken just because someone declared themselves the owner because they had a better army.

and now we just pay them and they don't need an army at all, but that's normal too.

i can't even imagine what fucked up state we'd be living in if people didn't have to fight for their rights to be themselves and for their basic rights, that were stolen from them by being born into a place they do not own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like that some people think we can just opt out of being in trouble

'you've committed a crime'

'Yeah but it's okay. .I'm a free man so I'm allowed

'Oh..okay. ..carry on then'

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation.

but when you think about who thought they had the given right to ban gay marriage in the first place, or had the right to keep slaves, or to discriminate?

You are a bit short on history, then;

Etc......

but this is exactly what you mean by society, when you say things were considered normal. unwritten laws basically.

and now we just pay them and they don't need an army at all, but that's normal too.

I am having difficulty getting inside your logic cycle.

But the point is; ( certainly with UK law; which evolves under case law ) it evolves one way or another ; and what I said was; if you don't like it; then you get it changed; either via your representatives , or by public opinion, or protest, or by challenging the legislation in test cases in the courts.( or by a revolution, if need be).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am having difficulty getting inside your logic cycle."

Logic?

I give up, we're playing multiple chess games at once against a whole pigeon loft!

It's even worse than arguing science.

I've updated my status to reflect this!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who the fuck has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives, really?

you have the right to be you and some laws are unjust, basically.

1. Everyone else in the society in which you live has a right to expect that you will respect the accepted behaviour of that society. Which in a large and sophisticated society, is encoded by laws.

it works: repeal of slavery, anti discriminatory laws, gay marriage.

Societies work by concensus; whether it be a wolf pack or a nation.

but when you think about who thought they had the given right to ban gay marriage in the first place, or had the right to keep slaves, or to discriminate?

You are a bit short on history, then;

Etc......

but this is exactly what you mean by society, when you say things were considered normal. unwritten laws basically.

and now we just pay them and they don't need an army at all, but that's normal too.

I am having difficulty getting inside your logic cycle.

that takes ages (years, decades even, and if we think about the gay people prosecuted for being gay that pardon they want is coming up to a century now), and a lot of support.

my logic is some things are forced that do not belong in any civilised society because it benefits a few people, i've left many examples already.

that we are not born to obey others. we have the right to be who want to without harming anyone else, a society should expect it's citizens to be harmless otherwise there'd be no society.

that there are a lot of double standards within our society also. and the ones outside of our societies are using our society as a way to maintain a high status where they do not have to conform to our rules, the rules they create.

but more basically, people are born into something they choose not to be a part of.

if you could choose to take your taxes and pay for a life to be saved or a life to be taken, which would you choose? do you think you have the choice right now? would you like that choice? you weren't born into any society that let's you choose to do many things.

sure you have some freedoms, but they're within rails, one choice or another but not anything you'd choose for yourself maybe.

what would you really do with your life if you had the choice?

would you be here arguing with me if you had something better to do?

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By *inky BunnyMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"i watched a video of a guy who left his court summons on the table to be tried in place of himself. think he got done for breach of court as well.

Have you seen the Cwmbran court video where using the same method they take control of the court, dismiss the 'judge' and declare all proceedings null and void?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i watched a video of a guy who left his court summons on the table to be tried in place of himself. think he got done for breach of court as well.

Have you seen the Cwmbran court video where using the same method they take control of the court, dismiss the 'judge' and declare all proceedings null and void?"

no, you got a youtube link? i couldn't find the video i was on about either, it is fairly old though.

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By *inky BunnyMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I should have clarified that they place the birth certificate on the bench in lieu of the human person not the summons - in the Cwmbran case.

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By *inky BunnyMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

It's "Freeman Stephen Barry Beats Court".

It's quite long but great drama.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's "Freeman Stephen Barry Beats Court".

It's quite long but great drama."

lol, found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Us0UT2EfY

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So where would all that have left Spartacus? And does it apply to all horses? Or just those being ridden across deserts?

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"That's proof of identity, not a separate legal entity.

I'm really not with you there lol.

A birth certificate is a certificate showing details of your legal entity.

If I didn't have a legal entity, you woukdnt be able to do a great number of things! How could you even get a driving license?!?!

And which, of course, you can't reject responsibility for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'Strictly' Gypsies are not Romany. Travellers are very much different than Gypsies and those within the Gypsy and Traveller communities contest strongly that the 'true' Gypsy is a Romany.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All these free men of the land types...just wondering...do they just reject the law bit of the society they they didn't choose to join? Or do they reject it all? Because after all..They didn't choose to be born into this! (the excuse of an emo teen no?) they still happy to say use the hospital and doctors? Do they still have their rubbish collected or do you do dispose of it responsibly yourself? How about working and paying tax? Benefits perhaps? Happy to take that bit? guess if they don't use a single one of the services our tax goes to then I wouldn't mind them flouting that little law

Do they send the kids to school?

These free men of the land...I imagine them as solely independent and self sufficient..Hunter gatherer types.

Or is it a bit of a shit way of just trying to get away with stuff?

I think the latter.

If your gonna break the law..don't be a fanny and try to whine you didn't choose to be born into it..just accept that there are laws and consequences for breaking them like the rest of us

As a footnote, if your that bright you wouldn't get caught breaking the law anyhow.

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