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Societies dim view on non monogamous relationships

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering

In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Blame religion.

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By *randMrs Spanish BrunetteCouple
over a year ago

home sweet home

Swinging is like being gay in the 60s. People do it. People even know who does it. But it's frown upon. Hopefully things will change.

MrsSB

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

"

Probably because a stable family unit has been shown to be the most healthy for raising kids, and outside of swinging 'non-monogamy' often causes the break up of families.

For my own perspective I simply like monogamy best.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?"

Kids! That's my instinctive reply. I have pondered this question before and thought about whether humans are naturally monogamous. I fail to see how unless you are living as a tribe that this is really viable unless you do not bring children into the equation. Also historically religion had a big influence, the sanctity of marriage and all that jazz.

But I suppose it also depends on whether you are talking about swinging or polyamory.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

A mixture of those at the top using religion to control the masses, and the fact that most people, even on here, are sheeple.

Take any subject you like and you will find someone, even on here, to try to denigrate you for being 'different'.

Oh, and jealousy, obvs

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?"

Most people would rather cheat on their partners than share them. A significant proportion of women will tolerate their partners cheating as long as there's plausible deniability.

Why? I have no fucking idea. It certainly doesn't work well for them given the divorce rate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Daft as it may seem, I'm wondering if all the recent newspaper obsession with swinging may actually help attitudes change. It brings the subject up for discussion to the general public. Some will think it's disgusting. Some will think it sounds like fun.

Much like the Shades of Grey books brought out the BDSM interests for some... it may appear shite on the surface but if brings about change then I think that's a good thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Big yawn to all the people citing 'religion' as a major factor. There's no period of recent time you can point to when the majority of the population strictly observed religion.

Even the ultra prudish victorians didn't see a conflict with a gentleman taking a mistress. Let's not forget good old Henry VIII who started his own religion since he couldn't put his dick where he wanted to.

Since contraception is a relatively new thing in human history, unsurprisingly we have yet to fully incorporate it's implications into national culture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Big yawn to all the people citing 'religion' as a major factor. There's no period of recent time you can point to when the majority of the population strictly observed religion.

Even the ultra prudish victorians didn't see a conflict with a gentleman taking a mistress. Let's not forget good old Henry VIII who started his own religion since he couldn't put his dick where he wanted to.

Since contraception is a relatively new thing in human history, unsurprisingly we have yet to fully incorporate it's implications into national culture. "

That might be what happened behind the scenes but it doesn't mean that it would have been socially acceptable.

Also, you should take a nap if you're tired.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it. "

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Big yawn to all the people citing 'religion' as a major factor. There's no period of recent time you can point to when the majority of the population strictly observed religion.

Even the ultra prudish victorians didn't see a conflict with a gentleman taking a mistress. Let's not forget good old Henry VIII who started his own religion since he couldn't put his dick where he wanted to.

Since contraception is a relatively new thing in human history, unsurprisingly we have yet to fully incorporate it's implications into national culture.

That might be what happened behind the scenes but it doesn't mean that it would have been socially acceptable.

Also, you should take a nap if you're tired. "

I've long been looking for the society where most people actually follow what a religion says. I've never found it. Even in Pakistan, they will publically agree with whatever is said at Friday prayers, then go right back to whatever they were doing before.

If their private views don't match their publically stated views, then the overwhelming negativity towards swingers can't be explained by a factor that predominately effects the publically asserted view.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly. "

I don't disagree about slut shaming being mostly woman on woman, but most people in my experience are more self obsessed than we give them credit for. I don't know any married women who feel threatened by sluts. I tend to think that's for women whose entire identity is tied up in their role as a wife/girlfriend and mother.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?"

There's no correlation between the size of the swinging scene and religious observance. It can only be explained by other factors.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

I've long been looking for the society where most people actually follow what a religion says. I've never found it. Even in Pakistan, they will publically agree with whatever is said at Friday prayers, then go right back to whatever they were doing before.

If their private views don't match their publically stated views, then the overwhelming negativity towards swingers can't be explained by a factor that predominately effects the publically asserted view. "

I'm guessing you didn't have to go to confessions twice a term throughout puberty.

When adults don't talk openly about their private beliefs, and allow the moralisers to make the most noise, surely it is inevitable that people will grow up with very narrow views?

May I trigger the klaxon by being the first to say how surprised I was to find how illiberal some people's views on here were?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it just a case of people not liking what they don't understand.

If they don't swing and they feel normal then what swingers do must be abnormal then and there is always someone who just can't keep there nose out of other peoples business

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly.

I don't disagree about slut shaming being mostly woman on woman, but most people in my experience are more self obsessed than we give them credit for. I don't know any married women who feel threatened by sluts. I tend to think that's for women whose entire identity is tied up in their role as a wife/girlfriend and mother. "

Well here's former pornstar, turned bollywood actress Sunny Leone being interviewed in her home country of India. She is the most Googled person in India.

Note his question at 10:07: https://youtu.be/zT-Gd2djRV0

I appreciate it's anecdotal evidence, but he is simply saying what a lot of people were thinking!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?

There's no correlation between the size of the swinging scene and religious observance. It can only be explained by other factors. "

Is there a correlation between ultra-religious societies and keeping natural urges hidden underground, would you say?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I don't disagree about slut shaming being mostly woman on woman, but most people in my experience are more self obsessed than we give them credit for. I don't know any married women who feel threatened by sluts. I tend to think that's for women whose entire identity is tied up in their role as a wife/girlfriend and mother. "

I agree with this.

I am a mother, and adore my kids, blah blah. But that's not all I am! I have friends who have nothing else in their life but being a godly little wifey and they see my lifestyle as a threat. Not that I would be remotely interested in their husbands. I've been called a slut before and lots of other derogatory comments for enjoying sex with new people. Only ever really by people in this situ tho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I've long been looking for the society where most people actually follow what a religion says. I've never found it. Even in Pakistan, they will publically agree with whatever is said at Friday prayers, then go right back to whatever they were doing before.

If their private views don't match their publically stated views, then the overwhelming negativity towards swingers can't be explained by a factor that predominately effects the publically asserted view.

I'm guessing you didn't have to go to confessions twice a term throughout puberty.

When adults don't talk openly about their private beliefs, and allow the moralisers to make the most noise, surely it is inevitable that people will grow up with very narrow views?

May I trigger the klaxon by being the first to say how surprised I was to find how illiberal some people's views on here were? "

I can only really talk for my own experience there. 0% of the priests I've ever met were surprised to learn that teenage boys jack off. 15% thought there was a realistic chance a teenage boy would stop jacking off. Can't say it left me too scarred.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly.

I don't disagree about slut shaming being mostly woman on woman, but most people in my experience are more self obsessed than we give them credit for. I don't know any married women who feel threatened by sluts. I tend to think that's for women whose entire identity is tied up in their role as a wife/girlfriend and mother.

Well here's former pornstar, turned bollywood actress Sunny Leone being interviewed in her home country of India. She is the most Googled person in India.

Note his question at 10:07: https://youtu.be/zT-Gd2djRV0

I appreciate it's anecdotal evidence, but he is simply saying what a lot of people were thinking! "

I can't look at the link now because I'm skiving off at work - but I suppose my point is how do you know he's saying what other people are thinking? We only hear the voices of those who shout the loudest. The ones who shout the loudest are the ones who care either way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?

There's no correlation between the size of the swinging scene and religious observance. It can only be explained by other factors.

Is there a correlation between ultra-religious societies and keeping natural urges hidden underground, would you say?"

Not unless you can explain China, North Korea and Japan to me? Very sexually repressive societies, very non-religious.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly.

I don't disagree about slut shaming being mostly woman on woman, but most people in my experience are more self obsessed than we give them credit for. I don't know any married women who feel threatened by sluts. I tend to think that's for women whose entire identity is tied up in their role as a wife/girlfriend and mother.

Well here's former pornstar, turned bollywood actress Sunny Leone being interviewed in her home country of India. She is the most Googled person in India.

Note his question at 10:07: https://youtu.be/zT-Gd2djRV0

I appreciate it's anecdotal evidence, but he is simply saying what a lot of people were thinking!

I can't look at the link now because I'm skiving off at work - but I suppose my point is how do you know he's saying what other people are thinking? We only hear the voices of those who shout the loudest. The ones who shout the loudest are the ones who care either way. "

When you think about how ridiculous that view is, you must appreciate that it's not a position they arrived at via rational thought. They fact that the view matches a lot of the major trends from evolutionary psychology leads me to conclude it's wide spread.

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By *cotsguyyMan
over a year ago

Belfast and Fife

When I first arrived in N.Ireland they weren't even allowed to open shops on a Sunday due to religion. This only changed not too long ago.

So an open swinging scene here has a long way to go yet, haha.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?

There's no correlation between the size of the swinging scene and religious observance. It can only be explained by other factors.

Is there a correlation between ultra-religious societies and keeping natural urges hidden underground, would you say?

Not unless you can explain China, North Korea and Japan to me? Very sexually repressive societies, very non-religious. "

but again you're muddling present-day religious beliefs, with the ability for past religious control to achieve a critical mass that lasts far longer.

All of these cultures were once deeply religious. The communists tried to regain control by banning religion, Putin does it by funding it...

Maybe things would be different if Jesus had met more swingers & gay people, but since we didn't even manage to grasp his advice towards women who commit adultery, I'm not sure how effective even that would have been...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolute nonsense! You seriously believe that there is a massive swinging scene in strictly religious countries do you?

Saudi Arabia perhaps?

There's no correlation between the size of the swinging scene and religious observance. It can only be explained by other factors.

Is there a correlation between ultra-religious societies and keeping natural urges hidden underground, would you say?

Not unless you can explain China, North Korea and Japan to me? Very sexually repressive societies, very non-religious.

but again you're muddling present-day religious beliefs, with the ability for past religious control to achieve a critical mass that lasts far longer.

All of these cultures were once deeply religious. The communists tried to regain control by banning religion, Putin does it by funding it...

Maybe things would be different if Jesus had met more swingers & gay people, but since we didn't even manage to grasp his advice towards women who commit adultery, I'm not sure how effective even that would have been..."

Sorry when we're those countries very religious? I can't think of any time China has been a very religious country. The communists party in China tried to rid it of confucius values but that's not a religion.

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering

Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules."

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Sorry when we're those countries very religious? I can't think of any time China has been a very religious country. The communists party in China tried to rid it of confucius values but that's not a religion. "

Let me quote you the opening sentence from the Wikipedia page on Religion in China.

"China has long been a cradle and host to a variety of the most enduring religio-philosophical traditions of the world. Confucianism and Taoism, and later Buddhism, constitute the "three teachings", philosophical frameworks which historically have had a significant impact in shaping Chinese culture"

Many people think that Confucianism's central tenet is what distinguishes the New Testament from the Old.

So I still stick with my original theory of Religion, then accepted practice, then Sheepolism.

{shrugs}

I like Scarlet's optimistic take though.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

What did they manage in China?

"Modern government"

Really?

Tiananmen Square anyone?

Have you ever looked up China and Human Rights?

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way."

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry when we're those countries very religious? I can't think of any time China has been a very religious country. The communists party in China tried to rid it of confucius values but that's not a religion.

Let me quote you the opening sentence from the Wikipedia page on Religion in China.

"China has long been a cradle and host to a variety of the most enduring religio-philosophical traditions of the world. Confucianism and Taoism, and later Buddhism, constitute the "three teachings", philosophical frameworks which historically have had a significant impact in shaping Chinese culture"

Many people think that Confucianism's central tenet is what distinguishes the New Testament from the Old.

So I still stick with my original theory of Religion, then accepted practice, then Sheepolism.

{shrugs}

I like Scarlet's optimistic take though.

"

Come on! You can do better than Wikipedia!

Confucianism isn't even a religion. It even says "religio-philosophical traditions"!!! A made up term if ever I saw one.

Confucianism and Buddhism are philosophies not a religions. Confucianism is way more influential than Toaism or Buddhism in China, also in other parts of south East Asia too.

A religion is the worship of a God. Buddhists do not actually believe Buddha was a God, they believe he was a man who achieved enlightenment.

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering

Arround the world

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

[Removed by poster at 05/10/16 12:46:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What did they manage in China?

"Modern government"

Really?

Tiananmen Square anyone?

Have you ever looked up China and Human Rights?"

Sorry but I can't debate with people who don't understand the terms used and conflate things.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst

If you have a grown up son or daughter which do you think you would idealy prefer them to be, married and stay married to one person and be reasonably happy or have an open marriage, which would be ok but i think they would less likely to stay married for ever.

Also there are quite a few reasons why people disaprove of swingers usualy if they dont know them very well thinking that it could attract abusive people or sex offenders and the fear of stds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funnily enough monogamy in terms of kids, is counter productive. Though ultimately possibly better in terms of raising the children. It flys in the face of our natural design. Which is multiple partners and the strongest sperm getting the egg. It has more to do with legal standing and responsibility. However it's pretty much a myth. Outside of the informed consent of swinging. Monogamy probably exists in a very small percentage of relationships. Societies attitude towards it, is probably more based on jealousy and a projection of guilt than anything else.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I could cry when i write out a well thought out reply then delete it after ive posted it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho."

OK let's discuss the UK then. There is no separation of church and state, even today. We had ~800 years of feudalism. In our feudal system there is no distinction between the religious and secular parts of the state. A bishop is part of the state and the church, they would make decisions on secular and religious matters. Therefore, it was not uncommon for a bishop to not be especially religious. Since the position of Bishop could be bought and sold at times, was sometimes appointed under influence of the King, sometimes under more religious influences. There were several Pope's that weren't even religious because that went through a period of being a bought and sold office too.

So my question is, how are you able to look back and distinctively carve out the religious aspects of that state, from the secular when they didn't even do it themselves?

With respect, I think you are retrospectively applying a modern distinction of state and religion that simply wasn't present for most of our history.

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"I could cry when i write out a well thought out reply then delete it after ive posted it "

Has happened once or twice to me in the past.

You can scream, have a cuppa and tetry lol.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"I actually think with most of this stuff, most people don't really give a shit either way. They aren't particularly for it or against it.

I have to disagree. 'Slut shaming' is largely carried out by women against women. The reasons are rooted deep in ecolutionary psychology, but in simple terms many married women feel threatened by 'sluts'.

Most people are not especially rational. You could have a fat, hairy, unemployed, old, alcoholic man who sits on the sofa in a string vest all day drinking cider. An attractive swinger moves in next door and the wife of the aforementioned man will likely see the swinger as a threat to 'stealing her husband' and treat her accordingly. "

classic

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho.

OK let's discuss the UK then. There is no separation of church and state, even today. We had ~800 years of feudalism. In our feudal system there is no distinction between the religious and secular parts of the state. A bishop is part of the state and the church, they would make decisions on secular and religious matters. Therefore, it was not uncommon for a bishop to not be especially religious. Since the position of Bishop could be bought and sold at times, was sometimes appointed under influence of the King, sometimes under more religious influences. There were several Pope's that weren't even religious because that went through a period of being a bought and sold office too.

So my question is, how are you able to look back and distinctively carve out the religious aspects of that state, from the secular when they didn't even do it themselves?

With respect, I think you are retrospectively applying a modern distinction of state and religion that simply wasn't present for most of our history. "

As you point out religious offices could be bought at a price and therefore easily corrupted.

I think religion is only a part of the overall issue with society's attitudes. The powerfull in society are the ones that shape it and it stands to reasons religion would make a great tool to use especially during very harsh times in history where the people of society as a whole had very little.

Even now we are known to have a corrupt government. The methods used are diffrent but other than tht very little changes.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?"

who gives a flying fuck what normal boring vanilla society thinks .

fuck the lot of them they can live how they want I will live as I want .

I really can't be arsed to worry about what the vanilla 9 to 5 bunch think I'm having way to much fun to care in all honestly

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

who gives a flying fuck what normal boring vanilla society thinks .

fuck the lot of them they can live how they want I will live as I want .

I really can't be arsed to worry about what the vanilla 9 to 5 bunch think I'm having way to much fun to care in all honestly "

I ask because I have another topic in mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho.

OK let's discuss the UK then. There is no separation of church and state, even today. We had ~800 years of feudalism. In our feudal system there is no distinction between the religious and secular parts of the state. A bishop is part of the state and the church, they would make decisions on secular and religious matters. Therefore, it was not uncommon for a bishop to not be especially religious. Since the position of Bishop could be bought and sold at times, was sometimes appointed under influence of the King, sometimes under more religious influences. There were several Pope's that weren't even religious because that went through a period of being a bought and sold office too.

So my question is, how are you able to look back and distinctively carve out the religious aspects of that state, from the secular when they didn't even do it themselves?

With respect, I think you are retrospectively applying a modern distinction of state and religion that simply wasn't present for most of our history.

As you point out religious offices could be bought at a price and therefore easily corrupted.

I think religion is only a part of the overall issue with society's attitudes. The powerfull in society are the ones that shape it and it stands to reasons religion would make a great tool to use especially during very harsh times in history where the people of society as a whole had very little.

Even now we are known to have a corrupt government. The methods used are diffrent but other than tht very little changes."

There's no doubt that the history of states is the history of the powerful and the... not powerful. You only have to read the Melian dialogue to see that.

Religion is one tool that may or may not be manipulated by the powerful, it's not an essential one though. Religion provides a moral framework for future behaviour, but there's no reason you can't just get that from a philosophy, as was the case in China.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

who gives a flying fuck what normal boring vanilla society thinks .

fuck the lot of them they can live how they want I will live as I want .

I really can't be arsed to worry about what the vanilla 9 to 5 bunch think I'm having way to much fun to care in all honestly

I ask because I have another topic in mind."

post that topic instead this ones rather boring and has been done to death in the past

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

who gives a flying fuck what normal boring vanilla society thinks .

fuck the lot of them they can live how they want I will live as I want .

I really can't be arsed to worry about what the vanilla 9 to 5 bunch think I'm having way to much fun to care in all honestly

I ask because I have another topic in mind.

post that topic instead this ones rather boring and has been done to death in the past "

47 replies so far. Some find it interesting.

Why so negative? If it doesn't interest you there are plenty of other topics to take part in.

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho.

OK let's discuss the UK then. There is no separation of church and state, even today. We had ~800 years of feudalism. In our feudal system there is no distinction between the religious and secular parts of the state. A bishop is part of the state and the church, they would make decisions on secular and religious matters. Therefore, it was not uncommon for a bishop to not be especially religious. Since the position of Bishop could be bought and sold at times, was sometimes appointed under influence of the King, sometimes under more religious influences. There were several Pope's that weren't even religious because that went through a period of being a bought and sold office too.

So my question is, how are you able to look back and distinctively carve out the religious aspects of that state, from the secular when they didn't even do it themselves?

With respect, I think you are retrospectively applying a modern distinction of state and religion that simply wasn't present for most of our history.

As you point out religious offices could be bought at a price and therefore easily corrupted.

I think religion is only a part of the overall issue with society's attitudes. The powerfull in society are the ones that shape it and it stands to reasons religion would make a great tool to use especially during very harsh times in history where the people of society as a whole had very little.

Even now we are known to have a corrupt government. The methods used are diffrent but other than tht very little changes.

There's no doubt that the history of states is the history of the powerful and the... not powerful. You only have to read the Melian dialogue to see that.

Religion is one tool that may or may not be manipulated by the powerful, it's not an essential one though. Religion provides a moral framework for future behaviour, but there's no reason you can't just get that from a philosophy, as was the case in China. "

this is so correct the history of human society is the history of manipulation of the many by the few

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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago

in the eye of the storm


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

who gives a flying fuck what normal boring vanilla society thinks .

fuck the lot of them they can live how they want I will live as I want .

I really can't be arsed to worry about what the vanilla 9 to 5 bunch think I'm having way to much fun to care in all honestly

I ask because I have another topic in mind.

post that topic instead this ones rather boring and has been done to death in the past

47 replies so far. Some find it interesting.

Why so negative? If it doesn't interest you there are plenty of other topics to take part in. "

the topic doesn't interest me but the opinions of some in here are very revealing

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"I could cry when i write out a well thought out reply then delete it after ive posted it "

It'll be too late now, DS, but often if you press the back button long enough, you can recover it. Especially if you have previewed it.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Come on! You can do better than Wikipedia"

You're very kind, but I think we both know I'm well out of my depth when discussing Chinese culture, especially with you


"There's no doubt that the history of states is the history of the powerful and the... not powerful. You only have to read the Melian dialogue to see that.

Religion is one tool that may or may not be manipulated by the powerful, it's not an essential one though. Religion provides a moral framework for future behaviour, but there's no reason you can't just get that from a philosophy, as was the case in China. "

I agree with that though.

But I also see that things like the 10 Commandments could have simply come about as a set of codes to unify and reduce internal friction, while trying to carve out a homeland. The cynical use of religion by the powerful came later.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Come on! You can do better than Wikipedia

You're very kind, but I think we both know I'm well out of my depth when discussing Chinese culture, especially with you

There's no doubt that the history of states is the history of the powerful and the... not powerful. You only have to read the Melian dialogue to see that.

Religion is one tool that may or may not be manipulated by the powerful, it's not an essential one though. Religion provides a moral framework for future behaviour, but there's no reason you can't just get that from a philosophy, as was the case in China.

I agree with that though.

But I also see that things like the 10 Commandments could have simply come about as a set of codes to unify and reduce internal friction, while trying to carve out a homeland. The cynical use of religion by the powerful came later.

"

Exactly, a lot of people don't understand that the propensity for shared rituals is something that helped humans evolve from kinship groups, into tribes. Those who didn't make the jump, jumped out of the gene pool.

So those silly beliefs about the invisible man in the sky are the reason everyone is here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Alot of people think religion could be the main factor although some dissagree.

I personaly beleive the reasons for society's views are the cause of powerful historical figgures that enjoyed having the ability to engage in such sexual adventures yet were very jelous and used their powers to control the less fortunate of society.

I genuinely believe religion was apart of this control.

Historically life was very hard and keeping those with nothing under control would have been impossible except for the fear of an eternity in hell or heaven unless depending on your ability obey the rules.

And yet they managed it in China... China was the world's first modern government by the way.

I dont know enough about chinese history to make a comment.

My views are based on the UK and its development through time, although instances of religion being used to control the less fortunate is very evident in both modern and ancient history.

Imho.

OK let's discuss the UK then. There is no separation of church and state, even today. We had ~800 years of feudalism. In our feudal system there is no distinction between the religious and secular parts of the state. A bishop is part of the state and the church, they would make decisions on secular and religious matters. Therefore, it was not uncommon for a bishop to not be especially religious. Since the position of Bishop could be bought and sold at times, was sometimes appointed under influence of the King, sometimes under more religious influences. There were several Pope's that weren't even religious because that went through a period of being a bought and sold office too.

So my question is, how are you able to look back and distinctively carve out the religious aspects of that state, from the secular when they didn't even do it themselves?

With respect, I think you are retrospectively applying a modern distinction of state and religion that simply wasn't present for most of our history.

As you point out religious offices could be bought at a price and therefore easily corrupted.

I think religion is only a part of the overall issue with society's attitudes. The powerfull in society are the ones that shape it and it stands to reasons religion would make a great tool to use especially during very harsh times in history where the people of society as a whole had very little.

Even now we are known to have a corrupt government. The methods used are diffrent but other than tht very little changes.

There's no doubt that the history of states is the history of the powerful and the... not powerful. You only have to read the Melian dialogue to see that.

Religion is one tool that may or may not be manipulated by the powerful, it's not an essential one though. Religion provides a moral framework for future behaviour, but there's no reason you can't just get that from a philosophy, as was the case in China.

this is so correct the history of human society is the history of manipulation of the many by the few "

You wouldn't like the alternative much either

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?"

Hold on right there .... is monogamy necessarily vanilla? Currently monogamous, our sex life is hardly vanilla and I for one would certainly say that some swingers indulge in vanilla swinging ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think some of it is natural - it takes a long time for humans to have and rear a child and we're biologically driven to want to ensure we successfully reproduce.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think some of it is natural - it takes a long time for humans to have and rear a child and we're biologically driven to want to ensure we successfully reproduce."

More wars have been fought over inheritance rights than anything else. Without contraception, you really don't want your wife fucking around...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think some of it is natural - it takes a long time for humans to have and rear a child and we're biologically driven to want to ensure we successfully reproduce.

More wars have been fought over inheritance rights than anything else. Without contraception, you really don't want your wife fucking around... "

Shame he left. In case you come back... bullshit

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By *ea_Coffee OP   Couple
over a year ago

Near Kettering


"In the UK although it is becoming easier for people express themselves sexually and live their lives as they choose is right for them, many still feel unable to be honest about their lifestyles.

im curious as to why people think our society has developed this general attitude that vanilla monogamy is the only acceptable lifestyle choice.

Some will say that its born out of old values however history is full of civilisations that have incorporated very diffrent attitudes to sex.

Romans as an example have had a huge impact in UK history (we all know about the baths) but still we developed as we have.

Views?

Hold on right there .... is monogamy necessarily vanilla? Currently monogamous, our sex life is hardly vanilla and I for one would certainly say that some swingers indulge in vanilla swinging .... "

I could have worded it better I think.

A monogamous couple does not by any means suggest to me that they are vanilla.

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