FabSwingers.com forum: Benefits-opinions?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm getting really sick of all the benefit bashing thats been going on since the Tory twats and the political version of Robert Johnson took over.

The people in this country who are claiming benefits didnt get us and the whole world in to a world wide recession and kicking everyone off benefits will not make the slightest dent in this county's defecit and rather than save any money we will all be paying out more,because kicking them all of benefits will not suddenly make them see the error of they're ways and decide to get a job,far from it instead there will be an unprecidented,the likes of never ever seen in history rise in crime,drugs,usa style street gangs,prostitution,robbery/burglery/muggings,poverty and social degredation and deprevation etc,etc which will place a massive strain on the infra structure which will cost far more than it does to pay out benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said that man

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

see.. this is where i am going to disagree with you on some of the stuff...

I have no problem with the 1 universal benefit proposal as such, because it will in the long run make it easier to understand and cut some of the duplication and admin costs...

I don't have a problem with them looking at a maximum figure for benefit claimed, the incentive should be on getting people to work rather than it being better to stay at home......

like it or not, the social security bill is one of the larger uk budgets.. so it should be looked out... and if that mean genuine claimers will be better off while fraudulant claimers will be found out... then that can only be a good thing

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By *he WabbitsCouple
over a year ago

Bromsgrove

I agree with Fabio, to some extent. But it isn't being done in a fair fashion. Recent cuts have hit very deserving cases, particularly our soldiers. This is just plain wrong. Cameron is so out of touch he can't see beyond then end of his own bank balance, same go's for Osbourne and sellout Clegg as well. The barrage of cutbacks in publick services, has been botched beyond comprehension. Sooner we can get this farce of a government outthe better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm with Fabio on this although I do struggle to see where, during a time of massive job losses these jobs are for those they want to take of benefits!

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By *ertnbeckyCouple
over a year ago

oldham

and as usual the small percentage of dishonest sick and benefit claimers will find the loopholes whilst honest folk will get ostracised

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The greedy government and the greedy banks are the ones that are totaly responcible for the credit crunch so why should the public take the responcibility of paying it back to them when it was our money they lost in the first place, its like paying for you shopping twice! they should be held accountable and their responcibility to find the money and not from the publics pockets, im working so i dont claim benefits but in their defense even if the government cut benefits where are those people going to find jobs after the state the country has been put in by the banks and government?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Well said that man

Thanks ThatGirl.....................What a Girl!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The benefits system is now trying to change and its a big culture change.

In the USA most people who are ill unless they have great insurance - will be working just to pay for their meds

The target is 1 million off benefits and the system is internally all about stats and numbers

That why with the new ESA assessment people are getting nil points and chucked off, but appeal - that appeal costs 3 grand per head before it even gets to a hearing - so where the government are saving money i dont know

ATOS are charged with the assessments and there is currently journalists trying to uncover if they are paid the bonuses to nil claims

Bonuses are paid to the work directions companies who find people jobs and move em from the sick to work

But then there is always people wise to this - get your job grant paid - get off the benefit - come back on it in a week - go through it all again - but never pay your job grant back

Universsal Credit sells a good story - it will cost fortunes in system upgrades

And the assessment for one claim would be much longer if you begin to incorporate all state benefits and council and tax and disability benefits too

Basically years ago there was supplementary benefit - and thats all Universal Credit is trying to do is go back 20 yrs

There is no easy system that is going to help everyone the right time in the right way - and really despite all the tosh

the government are looking to throw more n more folks off and privatise more and more elements of the civil service

The best one yet is the possibility to turn crisis loans private and charge them at 19.8 ish % apr!

Just now they are 0% loans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm getting really sick of all the benefit bashing thats been going on since the Tory twats and the political version of Robert Johnson took over.

"
you seem to want to be part of the problem and not part of the solution, if everyone had the same opinion as yourself who would pay your benefits.

some people are in need of benefits and some slack arsed scrounging work shy layabouts just keep knocking out kids to claim free money.

never had benefits in our lives bar family allowance which we pay our taxes for.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"see.. this is where i am going to disagree with you on some of the stuff...

I have no problem with the 1 universal benefit proposal as such, because it will in the long run make it easier to understand and cut some of the duplication and admin costs...

I don't have a problem with them looking at a maximum figure for benefit claimed, the incentive should be on getting people to work rather than it being better to stay at home......

Now this is where i'm gonna AGREE with you on a few things and strangely every other post in this thread so far,lol,i thought i was gonna get attacked like mad for starting this thread.

1 Universal benefit-Yes i agree is a good idea

Capped benefits-Yes again good idea

The social security bill is one of the uk's biggest expenditures yes but i think thats a good thing and as an English man i am very proud of this country's socialist tendancy,errrrr maybe thats the wrong phrase,i'm proud of this county's general attitude towards helping those who are less well off than ourselves

However in view of our current situation and the fact that we have cut the budget on everything else(Except overseas aid) then we should also look towards cuts in this section(And cuts in overseas aid).

But lets do it properly,the way they are doing things is not fair and will not leave genuine claimers better off,i personally know many genuine claimers who have had their benefits stopped while i also personally know some benefits cheats who have managed to hold on to their benefits.

I have even read about TERMINALLY ILL CANCER patients having their benefits stopped-Disgrace.The new assessment procedure is a massive swindle and is being used to try and kick as many people as possible of benefits,wether they are genuine or not.

So the government can play with the unemployment figures and make it look like something positive is happening.

I think we can all agree that it is ONLY the benefit cheats ie-those that can work but are CHOOSING not to.That we want something done about,but the majority of those people wouldnt get a job either way,they'd just turn to crime increasing our costs in other departments.

Rather than stopping peoples benefits make them do voluntry work for thier benefits.

or for addicts only give them benefits if they are getting treatment for thier addictions,i mean what employer in thier right mind would give a job to an addict who wouldnt be safe in a working enviroment,would be totally unreliable,would most likely have some criminal convictions,no ones gonna give them a job,assuming there are the jobs out there which there isnt because on top of the too big cutbacks too quickly there is too little investment to slowly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Afghanistan has a high production of poppy cultivation

And a high requirement for mine sweepers

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm getting really sick of all the benefit bashing thats been going on since the Tory twats and the political version of Robert Johnson took over.

you seem to want to be part of the problem and not part of the solution, if everyone had the same opinion as yourself who would pay your benefits.

some people are in need of benefits and some slack arsed scrounging work shy layabouts just keep knocking out kids to claim free money.

never had benefits in our lives bar family allowance which we pay our taxes for.

WHAAAAAAT????????????????????

give your head a wobble!!

If you ever come out of your ignorant,bigoted delusionment you may realise that what i am saying is part of the solution and what is happening is part of the problem.

And ignorant bigotry about people having kids just to claim benefits is total crap and helps no one and only adds to the problem.

No one pays my benefits because unlike you i dont claim benefits,no,instead i work very hard to provide jobs for myself and two other guys and all three of us pay our tax which goes toward paying you your benefits.And what would your solution be? to kick people who have kids off benefits?Because in youre opinion they only have kids to get benefits?Ridiculous!!and what would that make you?did you have your kids so you could claim benefits?

What do you think family allowance is?

BENEFITS......DUH!!!!!

and we pay our tax's for a lot of things and not just to feel like we have a right to claim BENEFITS just because we succumbed to one of our most basic natural urges and had sex with someone who we were very attracted to anyway and as a result of that happening most probably repeatedly over a long peroid of time,the female in the equation,through no doing of her own other than enjoying succumbing to her most basic natural insticts with a man whom she desired,repeatedly over a long period of time became pregnant.

In other words you feel like you have a right to claim benefits just because you had sex with someone you really liked which produced one or more children yet Terminally ill cancer patients who only have weeks/months left before the illness KILLS them are being refused benefits,and severely physically and or mentally disabled people or getting thier benefits taken away from them.

If thats what you think the solution is then i'm glad you think i'm part of the problem!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm on benefits, I wish I wasn't, I am partially sighted, almost blind, have early kidney failure and have been diagnosed with severe depression, my doctors and consultant all agree that I am unfit for work, after 6 months I am still going through my assessment for ESA so am on the minimum amount you can receive, ok I get DLA, Housing benefit (although it does not cover all my rent and I have to top it up out of my DLA) and council tax benefit, this still leaves me short by approx £50 a month and my son who is on low income has to subsidise me when he can, now it looks with these the ESA assessments that I am going to have to fight to stay on it and not be put onto job seekers, I didn't ask to be sick but I am. I fully agree that it is not right that benefit cheats get away with it but what annoys me most is the imigrants (my area is a highly populated with them) who get to claim without ever doing a days work in this country and paid taxes, I am not racist by any means but it is so upsetting to me that people who need benefits to survive or to make what time they have left if terminally ill easier for them and their families are about to get sharfted, the house opposite mine has 3 families, all imigrents, none of whom work and between them they have a BMW, 2 Mercs and all wear the latest in designer clothing, where is the justice in that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can see it from all angles.

I agree that the workshy should have incentives to come off benefits.

But.....With people not being allowed to retire until 65 + , there are fewer jobs.

When passing our benefit office, the majority are 18 to 30 yrs olds who have no intention of working yet drive really good cars etc ? which seems to suggest its funded by back handers and crime. How else could they afford it.

*********

My sister who suffered from cancer for 10 yrs before dying last year had loads of problems getting what she needed in order to live decently and she had worked all her life and never claimed a penny until the cancer took over.

******

My mate who is 60 this year and had cancer and a big op cannot get any more than £65 per week.

And the job centre say she must be actively looking for work...

Who will employ her ?

No one...

Too old, medical problems etc.

No one in business will take her on so she is stuck.

The benefit system is a mess and i cant see it getting any better with the universal benefit system they want to bring in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The papers are always looking to stir and make sensational tales - and most of them often dip out of a few key facts

Saying that yep in a system so big mistakes and errors happen

Terminally ill cases have been refused because

They have went through the normal chain as the claimant totally failed to say yes i have a DS1500 form and claim under the special rules

Some because they have come for the 2nd review after 12 to 18 months but the official diagnosis is still the expected to die within 6 months - some people have cancers with that diagnosis but a few for many reasons can live years

And as the system itself is flawed natural errors as well as pressure beind atos on stats n bonuses come into is as well

Income Support claim as a lone parent once the kid is 7 at the mo your expected to move to JSA and find work

and Yes the stats show a slight baby boom occurring with claimants returning within months of switching to ESA or JSA with a new baby born

Not saying all of these are not natural and not coincidental - but some will fit the cynical category

The other great tale in the papers is the polish migrants all getting benefits too easy and living off our welfare

Last month ive saw close to 30 applicants - 2 have been given benefit - the other 28 Nothing at all

Including one poor chap who came here in 2006 had a car accident has been signed off by the docs since then and up to now - and is awaiting his leg to be chopped off

He is deemed not habitually resident in the uk for benefit purposes - and boom nothing!

But the papers like to pump up the european union side of things and make it out like its a lot worse

Theres a lot of drama and excess in the press simply as it gets everyone going oh my god this shouldnt be

And a huge majority of people not on benefit etc know only what the papers spout - which is totally wrong

Ive also saw welfare office guidance and CAB guidance - that has totally wrong info about benefits cos the government have added a lot more changes to certain rules and processes in october and january

Meaning a lot of citizens advice groups and welfare workers are singing off the wrong hymn sheets - and that doesnt help the whole show either

But the nature of a very big beast indeed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm on benefits, I wish I wasn't, I am partially sighted, almost blind, have early kidney failure and have been diagnosed with severe depression, my doctors and consultant all agree that I am unfit for work, after 6 months I am still going through my assessment for ESA so am on the minimum amount you can receive, ok I get DLA, Housing benefit (although it does not cover all my rent and I have to top it up out of my DLA) and council tax benefit, this still leaves me short by approx £50 a month and my son who is on low income has to subsidise me when he can, now it looks with these the ESA assessments that I am going to have to fight to stay on it and not be put onto job seekers, I didn't ask to be sick but I am. I fully agree that it is not right that benefit cheats get away with it but what annoys me most is the imigrants (my area is a highly populated with them) who get to claim without ever doing a days work in this country and paid taxes, I am not racist by any means but it is so upsetting to me that people who need benefits to survive or to make what time they have left if terminally ill easier for them and their families are about to get sharfted, the house opposite mine has 3 families, all imigrents, none of whom work and between them they have a BMW, 2 Mercs and all wear the latest in designer clothing, where is the justice in that?"

Have been where your at simone.

Appeal...appeal all the way and you will get it.

I had those same problems due to ill health and mine is hopefully all sorted.

but only because i appealed and argued my case.

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By *exybabyMan
over a year ago

Canterbury....ish

The benefits system that we have is always going to be open to abuse. It does appear that those that have contributed into society seem to be able to get nothing out of the system, if and when they need it. Yet those that have made no contribution and are never likely to do seem to get everything that they want. They get their palms crossed with silver, seemingly, without question!!

The 'system' will always be wrongly attributed to those who know how to play and abuse it and never be given to those who are genuinely in need of help. No matter what the so called hypocritical government decide to do they will never get it right.

What you must also bear in mind is that those making the decisions are NEVER affected by those decisions.

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By *ouise HartleyTV/TS
over a year ago

the street of failed artists Liverpool

To all those who think people choose a life on benefits, just try living on 64 quid a week!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

[Removed by poster at 22/04/11 14:07:08]

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"I'm getting really sick of all the benefit bashing thats been going on since the Tory twats and the political version of Robert Johnson took over.

you seem to want to be part of the problem and not part of the solution, if everyone had the same opinion as yourself who would pay your benefits.

some people are in need of benefits and some slack arsed scrounging work shy layabouts just keep knocking out kids to claim free money.

never had benefits in our lives bar family allowance which we pay our taxes for.

I dont think the op was in support of benefit fraud ,just making an observation about the disproportionate cuts that have been made to the income of vulnerable people,regarding your comment of "knocking out kids" ,given the demographic shift to an aging population we need as many kids born as possible in this country to pay future taxes for you and others when they retire..its a complicated subject and tbh i don't think there are any easy answers,but this govt claimed "we are all in this together",well if we are lets start to hit the rich as much as the little guys eh....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said Monkeeman. Very well said indeed.

It's back to the days of the "Nasty Party" with Comedy Dave and his cronies. Every week it's a new scapegoat and I noticed yesterday's target was people who are overweight and those addicted to alcohol.

Meanwhile you have characters like Cameron who I noticed jogging round a park with a Personal Trainer who I know charges thousands for his services.

Dave and George are completely out of touch with the common man and make no attempt to bridge the gap. We had the farce of them lecturing about not relying on connections to get work experience/internships the other week aswell.

It's blokes with tonnes of cash and trust funds lecturing the general public on life and it's wrong.

Speaking of wrong can anyone answer me why we can't seemingly afford everything from hip replacement operations to my local youth club but we CAN afford to act as the world's policeman and start costly military actions against Arab states we don't like.

Of course we pick and choose the ones we decide to act against but that's another story.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"Well said Monkeeman. Very well said indeed.

Meanwhile you have characters like Cameron who I noticed jogging round a park with a Personal Trainer who I know charges thousands for his services.

It's blokes with tonnes of cash and trust funds lecturing the general public on life and it's wrong.

Of course we pick and choose the ones we decide to act against but that's another story."

probably for the same reason the coalition are letting the banks give the people the finger ,when in opposition they bleated we should have directors on the board controlling them,

in short its incompetence and as you said what do 20 rich members of the cabinet know about the life of the ordinary people of this country.

Incidentally if the banks decide to bugger off overseas to avoid the new

piss poor rules ,i hope the Government have the gut to charge them 80% tax on the last 6 years profits before they go .

Its about time the corporations were caused to bleed a bit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We continually read about those migrant "workers" be it from poland or any other place taking benefits.

You cant blame them, its the system which is at fault.

I for one say that you have to put in the pot before expecting anything out of it.

Its extremely hard and soul destroying living on benefits for those who have always worked.

Not a choice they have but for those born into the benefit system re kids...

They no difference and chances are they will continue the cycle.

In order to stand elected by the people you should have least spent 2 years on benefits. And benefits alone.

Then try telling those who have no choice, its enough to live on...

Some barely exist. especially if they have no kids and no family to help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now you had my sympathy until you mentioned immigrants and not being racist.

I despise having to pay my benefits to EVERYBODY who doesn't deserve it. I don't discriminate.

Funny people can always justify why they are entitled to my money, but point out the "other fella" that isn't!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well lets face it the system at the moment and all the tax credits are just not working too many loop holes people getting overpaid or underpaid and having to payback the governments mistakes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We continually read about those migrant "workers" be it from poland or any other place taking benefits.

You cant blame them, its the system which is at fault.

I for one say that you have to put in the pot before expecting anything out of it.

Its extremely hard and soul destroying living on benefits for those who have always worked.

Not a choice they have but for those born into the benefit system re kids...

They no difference and chances are they will continue the cycle.

In order to stand elected by the people you should have least spent 2 years on benefits. And benefits alone.

Then try telling those who have no choice, its enough to live on...

Some barely exist. especially if they have no kids and no family to help."

I agree wholeheartedly that being on benefits can be soul-destroying. I spent two weeks on jobseekers about ten years ago, and it was the most dull, monotonous downright miserable existance I've ever had. Just the sheer boredom of not working and feeling like a piece of shit was enough to knock my morale for six. And given that I felt like that after two weeks before I got my next job God only knows how I'd feel putting up with this pitiful existance in the long term. I therefore imagine that most people on benefits are desperate to get off, and while I acknowledge that there will certainly be piss-takers, they must need their heads examining to be able to put up with such a shitty feeling of being....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We continually read about those migrant "workers" be it from poland or any other place taking benefits.

You cant blame them, its the system which is at fault.

I for one say that you have to put in the pot before expecting anything out of it.

Its extremely hard and soul destroying living on benefits for those who have always worked.

Not a choice they have but for those born into the benefit system re kids...

They no difference and chances are they will continue the cycle.

In order to stand elected by the people you should have least spent 2 years on benefits. And benefits alone.

Then try telling those who have no choice, its enough to live on...

Some barely exist. especially if they have no kids and no family to help.

I don't think you're comparing like with like. YOU have a work ethic and associate working with a sense of well being and pride.

Perhaps I'm not so generous a spirit, but I don't believe everyone feels like you, hence those that are panicking now at the thought of having to get their lazy arses in gear and look for work.

Only one tiny problem...where are these jobs supposed to come from?!! If thousand of public sector jobs are going, these people will have recent up to date skills, I can't see an employer running to employe someone who's not had a job this century over someone with x amount of years work experience, can you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If people are not willing to do paid work then they should be made to do volentary or something within their community.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some very deserving people who need help and support through tough times, then there are some work shy lazy bastards who will take take take. How many of then do voluntary work in hospitals, charity shops whilst they are unemployed, it would make their CV more enticing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some very deserving people who need help and support through tough times, then there are some work shy lazy bastards who will take take take. How many of then do voluntary work in hospitals, charity shops whilst they are unemployed, it would make their CV more enticing.

Exactly plus it will keep their skills fresh ie charity shop tills customer services or gardening or handymen for age concern etc. Libraries most libraries teach computer skills now and museums there is a very wide range and variety.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One thing that has not been mentioned here is the large number of people who are not getting the full benefits that they are entitled too. When I worked as a social worker I found more people being underpaid than those who were cheating the system. People teminally ill and pensioners are not always aware of everything that could/can be paid and struggling to make ends meet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now you had my sympathy until you mentioned immigrants and not being racist.

I despise having to pay my benefits to EVERYBODY who doesn't deserve it. I don't discriminate.

Funny people can always justify why they are entitled to my money, but point out the "other fella" that isn't!

I paid my taxes for 30 years until I was unable to work anymore and my husband continued to pay his and support me until I left him, which is when I had to turn to the benefit system, there are many immigrents who do work and who do contribute but the ones that never have are the ones that I get annoyed with, the ones that take it for granted that everything will be handed out on a plate to them, as I said in live in a heavily immigrent populated area (south coast) the man who lives next door but one has even turned round and said, why should he work, when our government are fools and will pay for anything he needs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One thing that has not been mentioned here is the large number of people who are not getting the full benefits that they are entitled too. When I worked as a social worker I found more people being underpaid than those who were cheating the system. People teminally ill and pensioners are not always aware of everything that could/can be paid and struggling to make ends meet.

Very well said.

We tend to only hear the other side of things and conveniently not very much about big businesses avoiding paying tax.

Much easier to sling a few rocks at people generally unable to fight back.

Btw one thing I'm still waiting to hear is how people on benefits can get big flat screen TVs, trips abroad and executive cars on £60 a week?

I hear it often on here from the Daily Mail brigade. So once again can they explain how it's done please?

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By *ustamysteryWoman
over a year ago

south cumbria

Will some one like to tell me how you get big tellys n flash cars on benifits. Im a widow single mum yes I get some benifits but also pay tax on hubbys pension and council tax. Dont knock everyone

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Now you had my sympathy until you mentioned immigrants and not being racist.

I despise having to pay my benefits to EVERYBODY who doesn't deserve it. I don't discriminate.

Funny people can always justify why they are entitled to my money, but point out the "other fella" that isn't!

Im sorry to contradict you because i really feal for you and i know exactly how hard it must be for you

But you cant paint millions of people with eerrrr-shit i forgot what the expression is now,what i'm stupidly trying to say is dont let the actions of one or two people from a certain race or country cloud your view of all the millions of people from that race or country.

In every large group of people (be it Asians,Polish,English,what ever) there will be a small minority who are for want of a better word "Scum" and you cant paint them all with the same brush(i think thats the expression)

Yes there are a small numbers of foreigners over here taking advantage of our system but there are far more over here contributing to our system

and yes it must be annoying and frustrating to see foriegners who have not been here long seemingly getting handouts here there and everywhere when you who is born and bred here struggle to get anything and have to really fight to get that,but it's not their fault that our system isnt perfect it's our fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Passing over the usual Tory / LibDem bashing and misinformation that happens in these sorts of debates can a newbie add a couple of thoughts?

It is a fact that any new government (of any persuasion) that came in to power last year would have had to reduce expenditure and raise taxes. We are in debt up to and beyond our eyeballs and action had to be taken.

Given the Social Security bill is one of the largest budgets it is right to examine just what is going on. Some people don't need any benefits at all and some need total support and then there are the various degrees between. So this government has, for example, taken away some Benefits from the wealthier of us and is assessing others real needs. Among many benefits that are being looked at now people on Disability Benefit are (for the first time) being asked to undergo re-assessments. I see nothing wrong with this at all as I am quite happy to have how my taxes are spent scrutinised at last. And hasn't it thrown up some interesting facts.

Finally can I add that as someone who has had family injured in both Iraq and Afghan I think it is well out of order for people in here to say they are having their support reduced in any way. They are getting more in-theatre equipment, personal kit and post injury care and support than Labour ever managed in 13 years so lets not play politics with these terrific people and the injuries they sustain on our behalf.

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By *oDownEasyMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The "meedja" just love bashing benefit claimants, as they know it plays well in the minds of their readership. But while there certainly are people playing the system, who totally deserve to be caught & have the book thrown at them, the majority are people who need the extra help, to stay in work, to keep their house, or just to live.

The bill if everyone claimed what was their due under the current rules would far outway any savings, the bill is kept lower than it is due to people being too proud to be labelled "benefit scroungers" or "dole scum".

lets also not forget that error on the part of the civil service means more is wasted in overpayments caued by underpaid, overworked,and poorly trained & led govt. staff.

And last but not least, lets not forget that tax evasion & avoidance costs many many more times than is lost in benefit fraud.£1bn in fraud against £6Bn that Vodafone managed to avoid paying becuase their head of tax was best mates withthe HMRC boss, who took the case over from the specialists & did a dodgy deal(yes thats BILLION!!! Enough to cover all the cuts made recently!)

And how many people are happy to pay a builder, plumber or whatever in cash so it doesnt go thru the books, to save 20% VAT, that *would* have gone to the Govt, plus the tax the bloke "saves"(actually defrauds!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What gets me with benefits is them being given to imigrants that shouldnt even be in this country. If we were to emigrate we would have to show that we were able to live or have a trade and a job before being accepted into the country of our choice. In the UK this doesnt seem to matter. If the immigrants have been refused citizenship, get them on a plane out of the country asap, before they have a chance to marry or have a child in this country. Because as soon as that is done, they can then claim that their child is British, or their hubby/wife is british. Was watching the telly about these bogus weddings, its all a scam.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To turns things round a minute...

The immigrants were allowed to travel across europe to seek work etc.

Just like we are able to.

Im wondering how many of the british publc have done so ?

Im guessing at not many.

We are picked out by other countries because our benefit system is a joke.

If we were to go to poland (example) tomorrow to work and live. Then maybe lose your job....you wouldnt be able to claim a penny. nada...zilch...mil...

So its not all equal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

of course there should be a benifits system, ive been lucky enought to have never been out of work, but there are many reasons for that, like beeing flexable with work im prepaired and able to do and flexable with travel etc, ive even moved countries for work.

whilst i understand there will always be people who cant for what ever reason work, i do feel that there is a growing number who just dont want to.

maybe, as im assuming that most out of work people live in council accomadation, a house swap scheme might help, moving people to the area best suited to thier skills.

my work is very seasonal and a few years ago the on season hadnt been good and the off season worse so i took any job i could, better to earn min wage than nothing.

I know some will have a very different view from me, but whats wrong with helping yourself, it seems that we as a nation are moving away from that belief.

there will always be genuine need for benifit but not the huge numbers we have today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now you had my sympathy until you mentioned immigrants and not being racist.

I despise having to pay my benefits to EVERYBODY who doesn't deserve it. I don't discriminate.

Funny people can always justify why they are entitled to my money, but point out the "other fella" that isn't!

Some people always bring immigrants into everything: if it makes you feel better about claiming so be it!

There are more of the "indigenous" population on benefits I'm sure. Generations where no one has worked, had a college education etc but happy to breed the next generation of leeches!

I work hard for my money, my ex-husband and I are putting the last of our children through uni. As I said I don't discriminate, I resent every lazy, scrounging, stupid, thieving person claiming when they're able to work, and those that are ill equipped to deal with their own lives but some how have the wherewithal to know the minutiae of their neighbour's and make it their business!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i do feel strongly about anyone claiming that shouldnt be, regardless. They take money away from people that do need it most. Just it is more obvious where i stay where the money is going to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would give people a time limit on claims then have mandatory work schemes. If you don't like the idea then get a job. I lived with a total leach who should scrounge every penny he could off the state and more. There are many who just like to sit on there bums and do nothing. The ones who do want to work then help retrain them. The ones who don't then a sharp shock is due.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I would give people a time limit on claims then have mandatory work schemes. If you don't like the idea then get a job. I lived with a total leach who should scrounge every penny he could off the state and more. There are many who just like to sit on there bums and do nothing. The ones who do want to work then help retrain them. The ones who don't then a sharp shock is due. "

In the last few months the government have introduced time limits to claims on certain benefits,i'm not sure exactly what is what but i think J.S.A can only be claimed for a year now and other some sickness benefits for example I.S. and E.S.A. claims have to be assessed every 6 months now.

Dont quote me on those figures because i'm not 100 percent sure how acurate they are.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Then you get people like my son, who hands out goodness knows how many cv's each week and on the odd occassion hes managed to get an interview they never get back to him.

He managed to get a part time cleaning job last year, his pay is exactly the same as he would get if he claimed benefits, he cycles/walks 4 to 5 miles there and back each day to do it. He says hopefully employers will see he is prepared to work. He would do anything for a full time job. But they just are not out there

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

The difficulty with topics like this is that they can be a bit emotive... and most people know somebody who is trying really hard and not getting anywhere and most people also know somebody who is not trying at all... Trouble starts (and it is totally understandable) when making general statements based on a small number of cases, the whole topic being hyped up by the media does nothelp. There will always be victims (of the lack of work) and abusers (of the generous system) and those who literally fall between the cracks of the system...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Then you get people like my son, who hands out goodness knows how many cv's each week and on the odd occassion hes managed to get an interview they never get back to him.

I find that just rude that certain employers or would be employers never even send out a box standard thank you for your interest letter. Most people have email addys on their cvs nowadays, so its not like its even gonna cost the price of a stamp.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Totally seconded - it IS rude and quite disrespectful not to acknowldge and thank somebody for their interest in the company. Bad practice I agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/04/11 20:51:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dont quote me on those figures because i'm not 100 percent sure how acurate they are.

eh im sorry to say - i dont know who told you that - but utter pish!

there is no timer

JSA have sanctions and various things that can be imposed if you do not play the ball - folks signing on are split into groups of the fresh signers - the 6months to a year and the over a year signers

not playing ball stops your benefit

ESA upon the results by ATOS of the work capability assessment will put you on the WRAG or the SUPPORT group - for periods of 3 6 9 12 18 and 24 months

ESA claims are not assessed every 6 months - dependant on the results of the wca as mentioned above

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"To turns things round a minute...

The immigrants were allowed to travel across europe to seek work etc.

Just like we are able to.

Im wondering how many of the british publc have done so ?

Im guessing at not many.

We are picked out by other countries because our benefit system is a joke.

If we were to go to poland (example) tomorrow to work and live. Then maybe lose your job....you wouldnt be able to claim a penny. nada...zilch...mil...

So its not all equal

actually... sorry but I have to pull you up on a few things here...

1) even if people are EU nationals.. if they haven't lived in the UK before they are not allowed to claim ANY benefits for the 1st 2 years... the one exception to that is child benefit but that is after 18 months..

2) talking about working in different countries, what happened when a lot of british people went out to germany just after the wall came down... they took advantage to make more money and i didn't hear people complaining then... so obviously it works both ways

a lot of people in the trades have gone out to spain, to greece, to ireland during there building booms......

3) maybe if people learned another language like french, or german, or spanish, or italian then maybe there would be more people taking advantage of what is out there......

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

3) maybe if people learned another language like french, or german, or spanish, or italian then maybe there would be more people taking advantage of what is out there......"

I think you have a valid point here Fabio, and if langauge tuition started earlier here and had more of a priority on the curriculum people would be in a better position to take advantage. I brought my kids up to speak three languages and they are able to study at a uni abroad whcih is costing uni fees of just £150 per year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dont quote me on those figures because i'm not 100 percent sure how acurate they are.

People in real hardship need help but the sofa lofas need a sharp kick up there arse and making do something positive for society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

_abio sorry but point 1

pish

any EU national including any British passport holder having left the UK in the last few years will be subject to the Habitual Residency Test

it breaks into two categories - are you seeking work? Yeah - cool - welcome to jobseekers allowance - and there is a lot of ifs n maybes in getting that

are you no well and sick?

oooooo well you could be a chancing bastard trying to get our lovely NHS healthcare and benefits

if you are an A2 or A8 national - meaning mostly - polish estonian -lithunian etc

you better haver worker registration cards for every job you worked - verified start and end dates - if you cannot derive rights from another EEA national ie partner already in the UK - your looking rapidly at - boom DISALLOWED

ifffff your outside the EU and arrive on asylum from a nasty bad country that we are not pals with

chances are we will give you indefinite leave to remain and you will get recourse to public funds

if your American

NEVER! no nope no no no no you get fuck all

2 the people working overseas - very common - especially army lads - but if for a british contractor - then your tax and ni are paid to the uk and your permit is paid to the government of the company you are working for

if if if thats not the case then if you dont pay your own conts n NI to the uk while your overseas - your tax record n conts will be fuck all!

so you come back here after 2 years working and say - oooo im no well - well - you got fuck all contributions for the last 2 years - boom your conts based claim is nilled! - but you still can claim income related as a birtish passport holder

many cheeky bastards who have lived in america or austrailia for many years - return to the UK when healthcare costs them too much - and this test is in place to hump these cheeky monkeys who want to leave the uk for 20 years and more then return for FREE! healthcare

3 yes

i think at primary level we should learn polish and urdu to start to help let us appreciate the rest of the world more

we can go on holiday aaaaaaaaaanywhere - and someone can speak english - we are the most ignorant country besides america - who cant speak other languages

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally seconded - it IS rude and quite disrespectful not to acknowldge and thank somebody for their interest in the company. Bad practice I agree. "

It's just not affordable to do that. OK, with email you don't have the outlay of letter, envelope and frank but someone would still have to input the hundreds or even thousands of email addresses of the unsuccessful applicants - it isn't going to happen.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Totally seconded - it IS rude and quite disrespectful not to acknowldge and thank somebody for their interest in the company. Bad practice I agree.

I can only speak for my workplace and that I always make sure we let people know. And we try and do it in a nice way and leaving feedback. Some companies will state that "if you hvae not heard in so many days" this means you were not successful, that at least warns people.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Dont quote me on those figures because i'm not 100 percent sure how acurate they are.

eh im sorry to say - i dont know who told you that - but utter pish!

there is no timer

JSA have sanctions and various things that can be imposed if you do not play the ball - folks signing on are split into groups of the fresh signers - the 6months to a year and the over a year signers

not playing ball stops your benefit

ESA upon the results by ATOS of the work capability assessment will put you on the WRAG or the SUPPORT group - for periods of 3 6 9 12 18 and 24 months

ESA claims are not assessed every 6 months - dependant on the results of the wca as mentioned above

ok,ok,ok

I bow down to the superior knowledge of the cheeky cheek karma man.

lol.

Did say i wasnt sure how accurate my figures were though and thats because i got told that off a family,two parents and their son,who i i know and they are claiming those benefits and recently had assessments and they told me that was the new rules and i didnt put much thought to it,doesnt affect me so i wasnt much bothered by what i thought were the changes,

Now that i have thought about it your figures do seem more plausible so thanks for putting me straight.

Can you tell me please,what is WRAG?

Havent heard that one before,not in this context anyway,lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

............

Can you tell me please,what is WRAG?

Havent heard that one before,not in this context anyway,lol.

Work Related Activity Group.

From direct.gov

"Work-Related Activity Group

If you are placed in the Work-Related Activity Group, you will be expected to take part in work-focused interviews with your personal adviser. You will get support to help you prepare for suitable work.

In return, you will receive a work-related activity component in addition to your basic rate.

Customers are not required to attend the Work-Focused Interview (WFI) until it’s been confirmed that they’ve been placed in the Work-Related Activity Group."

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Is ESA the new sickness benefit or incapacity benefit. Ive never heard of it before

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

apologies for the acronyms - its just too boring to type in full

WRAG - is the work related activity group

meaning ESA wise - you would be awarded benefits for 3 6 or 9 months sometimes more now WRAG applies to folks with obvious problems that will heal - like breaks fractures etc - and also mental health that could get better

it means you still have to attended WFIs - work focused interviews - where private groups try n help fin you a job to suit your recovering illness

starting at 8 hrs a week 16 24 etc

the WRAG is ehhh forgive cos im not at work bumps the benefit up to 90 ish quid a week - cos both the support and WRAG components are between 25 to 30 ish quid add ons

the tax year has just changed so im still trying to focus on new rates - base rate of esa went from 65.45 to 65.70 and couple rate ehhh 102.75 to ehhhh i think 105 ish

but theres a bottom line in the benefit world for the single person as metioned earlier

65.70 a week

thats your lot - ok you can also have housing and council tax benefit on that too and not pay rent or council tax if you fir the right category

but just look at leccy and gas costs - then food

65 bucks a week

tis not much at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is ESA the new sickness benefit or incapacity benefit. Ive never heard of it before"

"Employment and Support Allowance provides financial help to people who are unable to work because of illness or disability. It also provides personalised support to those who are able to work. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its sod all and you dont live on it.you exist.

I would love top meet the guy who came up with that figure and smack him right in his jsa

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Customers are not required to attend the Work-Focused Interview (WFI) until it’s been confirmed that they’ve been placed in the Work-Related Activity Group."

voyeur

you have copied n pasted that from probably - maybe directgov? website

essentially thats feckin wrong too and this is what i mentioned earlier about the benefits system changing so quickly

how many of us watch parliament live every day n watch the bills pass - lol

none! its pish boring telly - but laws and bills are going through daily slighlty altering some key points

when you go on ESA you are expected within 13 weeks to hit a work capability assessment

but within those 13 weeks - you will also be expected to attend a WFI

so that quote even if from a direct goc website - is pish too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Customers are not required to attend the Work-Focused Interview (WFI) until it’s been confirmed that they’ve been placed in the Work-Related Activity Group."

voyeur

you have copied n pasted that from probably - maybe directgov? website "

Yes, I mentioned direct. gov in my previous post and felt mentioning it again wouldn't be neccessary. I also put it in inverted commas so people would know it wasn't my original work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/04/11 23:01:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

so that quote even if from a direct goc website - is pish too

I'm sure you're right. I have no control over what the Con Dems publish on govt websites.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yeah not having a go voyeur

its just thats part of the problem

and a huge problem for the fols actually dealing with claims - is that information and exact details are not up to date even on government websites

annnnnnnnnd cannot be cos cases are individual - and you would be all kinda scared when you submit a claim - we use 3 to 4 systems and have a great record of what you are all about

we know all the benefits yu ever claimed -

your tax records since you got your NI card at 16

all your call history to any benefit office

yor employer history

and slightly your bank history too

we are the government after all

but it helps tailor and assess each case

but the general info is just general- and not entirely accurate when it comes to individual assessment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yeah not having a go voyeur

................

I don't recall suggesting you were.

"The problem" is why I suggested, some time ago, that anyone finding themselves in difficulty with the benefits (that name is going to have to change) system should avail themselves of the assistance available through such agencies as CAB, CAB Scotland, local welfare rights advisors and the like.

Sometimes having an advocate who "talks the language" and who has access to the Welfare Rights Handbook and the informal discussion forum(s) many of them use can go a long way to easing the process. It can't turn a bad case into a good case but it'll make a hard slog a bit easier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he yeah not suggesting i was having a go voyeur ;

was just in case it was all took wrong - can happen on forums

really the best folks are the civil servants - running the claims n dealing with em - and i know - ooooo believe me i know - some of them can be total dicks!

if you get a good un on the phone then you can get decent straight to the point advice

but that can be again unfortunately a lottery

welfare workers and CAB folks do a good job - but again can give shit expectations - cos at 65 quid week its wrong to give folks hope unless your 100% sure especially with the knock ons to council benefits

from the inside i can see and i can be harsh my god yeah - ive seen more than the press feed on - and there is i think i need to get really harsh on certain elements of the system

but the goverment are too busy trying to be everyones pal

and thats just two faced

some aspects need a good kick right in the balls - and that might mean they die - the world is reaching 6.3 billion

its not gonna be long before our human rights n patience snaps

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

............

................... "

There was a time when that was the case but nowadays, and increasingly in the future, they're under the cosh about taking on unwinnable cases.

The wee 'better off in work' software they all use is pretty accurate (although I accept it's based on what's on the direct.gov webshite - and that isn't wholly reliable).

In any case it's better to trap at these events with a McKenzie Friend than alone. Benefits hearings and tribunals can be daunting affairs, even for the articulate amongst us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

always i would say - still use the CAB and welfare guys - and appeal

even though they may be wrong but they still have enough to help folks get kicked off at the start on the appeals

and the real horrible truth is the government has stats to obtain - and using private companies etc - it will obtain those targets and numbers

no matter what

and never be naive - we all just saw the banks and corporate monsters buy as out - the taxpayers - right before our eyes

you, me, all of us, are a commodity - you are a debt generating consuming unit, you really think the powers that be want or care for your welfare

if you care for welfare you would be rich enough to be on bupa

only the rich matters

only until the dream falls

and the casualities are global - we live in precious times

we are worth less than oil and gas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm getting really sick of all the benefit bashing thats been going on since the Tory twats and the political version of Robert Johnson took over.

sick or not with the bashing there are far too many claiming for us who work to support. If the lazy work shy shisters got off their arses and contributed to society then we would have had less cuts in services and a more efficient country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

tis a whole other issue of politics

people that have been on methadone for 20 years!!

clearly methadone aint working

alcoholics and jaykie junkies - i have to work to pay for my beers - but if i gave up work went homeless - the benefits systems would give me enough to get steaming most of the week! - i cant do the on my job!

human rights

and oooooo its not their fault they are junkies awww bless

up to to the government to get more chinese

get off human rights - and anyone stating to a docs a benefit or a welfare institution they are a junkie fecker - booooom jailed - and put in rehab - ok it may kill a few but fuck em

leeches of society - as it can be anything from a 60 to 120 buck a day habit - if your so stupid to not realise or even know what your doing but want to thieve and mug your habit - you are not worthy of a human right - oooooooooo shame its societies fault

is it?

the bankers the pop world - the movie world get by on oks - but we aint gonna hear about that until its caught red handed

yet we let the samll fishes stab maim bully and generally fuck up a neighbourhood for their 100 buck a day fix

and we pay for em

in benefits - and the ambulances - the police - etc to mop up the shit they create and then when they are finally caught - we pay for the legal aid for them to appeal their sentances cos awwww its such a shame they are caught up in drugs

pish!

get these wee feckers wearing magnets and armed with metal detectors and get them in afghanistan looking for mines - pay em in poppies!

and clown shoes -

and get em walking the roads

soldiers n landrovers cost far more than these benefit sucking wee bastards are worth

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd that is harsh

but i say fuck em

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like yer style Cheeky who posted all that.

Not all people on benefits are fraudulant... well i hope not but ... we all know people that are, and lets be honest all of us working are paying for them. i pay £988 a month in tax .. let alone all the other taxes ... err remind me who gets my money please??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That ignores the fact the cuts are ideologically driven.

The Tories and their chums would be doing what they're trying to do regardless of the financial situation of the nation. It's what they do.

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