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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. A social is supposed to be a chance for you to see each other in the flesh in a safe public environment and establish mutual attraction. IF you then want to go somewhere quiet to do other things you can but if you say you want social first meets where you expect to have a blow job I think a lot of people will tell you to go and whistle. | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. Ok lol You make it sound different and colder than it usually is lol A social is supposed to be a chance for you to see each other in the flesh in a safe public environment and establish mutual attraction. IF you then want to go somewhere quiet to do other things you can but if you say you want social first meets where you expect to have a blow job I think a lot of people will tell you to go and whistle. " | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" It will put lots of women off . But you're doing fine , and we won't do socials with no play either ( providing there's an attraction ) so crack on   | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? It will put lots of women off . But you're doing fine , and we won't do socials with no play either ( providing there's an attraction ) so crack on "Ok so you have a social then start playing? | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? It will put lots of women off . But you're doing fine , and we won't do socials with no play either ( providing there's an attraction ) so crack on
Ok so you have a social then start playing?"Sometimes , and other times we know from messages and pics it's gonna be straight into play . If we aren't sure from pics then we may just have a chat first to be sure there's a connection . But there is always the option to play if we all wish to . We would never entertain a meet if there was no option to play . | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. "  | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" Mutual oral or just you getting oral? | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x  | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. A social is supposed to be a chance for you to see each other in the flesh in a safe public environment and establish mutual attraction. IF you then want to go somewhere quiet to do other things you can but if you say you want social first meets where you expect to have a blow job I think a lot of people will tell you to go and whistle. " Totally with you on this one | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" That wouldn't be for me nor would I define that as a social imho | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Mutual oral or just you getting oral?" I would never be so selfish  | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Mutual oral or just you getting oral?" I wondered that too. Miss | |||
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"What the op is describing isn't a social, but a sexual  "Yeah but I guess what I am saying is that I don't usually fuck on the first meet, but I often can't resist a cheeky bit of pussy licking | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Mutual oral or just you getting oral? I wondered that too. Miss" Giving of course | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x "Ok so I only soft play on the first meet | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? It will put lots of women off . But you're doing fine , and we won't do socials with no play either ( providing there's an attraction ) so crack on
So when you social you always think about the possibility of playing straight after the social?
Ok so you have a social then start playing?
Sometimes , and other times we know from messages and pics it's gonna be straight into play .
If we aren't sure from pics then we may just have a chat first to be sure there's a connection .
But there is always the option to play if we all wish to .
We would never entertain a meet if there was no option to play ." | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" I would have thought a blowjob on a first "date" means about as much sexual tension as an episode of Songs of Praise tbh..If you know your getting it because you've asked where's the tension?? S | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Mutual oral or just you getting oral? I would never be so selfish "I wouldn't know if I wanted oral, giving or receiving, with someone until I'd met them and even then it might depend on my mood. I wouldn't agree to a social where there was any expectation of any sexual play at all. If we click and it happens, great, but socials are my chance to say no thanks, you're not for me, (and for them to say the same). Why would I agree to anything sexual before the meet to determine if I want to do anything more than have a coffee and a chat? | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x
Ok so I only soft play on the first meet"That makes more sense, I wouldn't call it a social.... But everyone is different. What works for one won't work for another. Go have fun x | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" How is sucking somebody'e cock a social? | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x
Ok so I only soft play on the first meet
That makes more sense, I wouldn't call it a social.... But everyone is different.
What works for one won't work for another. Go have fun x"I think I was misleading. I don't enjoy the whole social thing but at the same time I enjoy a soft first meet, so that the sexual excitement builds | |||
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"What the op is describing isn't a social, but a sexual "Exactly. If I go on a social that is all it will be.  | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Mutual oral or just you getting oral? I would never be so selfish
I wouldn't know if I wanted oral, giving or receiving, with someone until I'd met them and even then it might depend on my mood.
I wouldn't agree to a social where there was any expectation of any sexual play at all.
If we click and it happens, great, but socials are my chance to say no thanks, you're not for me, (and for them to say the same).
Why would I agree to anything sexual before the meet to determine if I want to do anything more than have a coffee and a chat?"
Social means social, doesn't matter what site you type it in surely? If ALL parties are happy it may well turn into something else but you'll never know till it happens ..
S | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? How is sucking somebody'e cock a social? " I thinks it's a very kind and social thing to do lol | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? How is sucking somebody'e cock a social? I thinks it's a very kind and social thing to do lol" Thank God I'm not social person | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? How is sucking somebody'e cock a social? I thinks it's a very kind and social thing to do lol Thank God I'm not social person "Could get messy | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" I personally find any preset exspections of sexual contact on a first meet very off putting ! I'd certainly wouldn't be arranging any meet with any person thst had that mindset . If both parties click and things move forward naturally then fine ,they are adults . Both to exspect oral just because the persons turned up is making huge assumptions . | |||
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"A social is a social.....no expectations....unless all agree to move on....but there should be no expectations..." | |||
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"What the op is describing isn't a social, but a sexual "Bloody spellcheck  | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x
Ok so I only soft play on the first meet
That makes more sense, I wouldn't call it a social.... But everyone is different.
What works for one won't work for another. Go have fun x
I think I was misleading. I don't enjoy the whole social thing but at the same time I enjoy a soft first meet, so that the sexual excitement builds "The feeling there was expectation would put me off. I don't want anyone getting excited about playing with me before I/we know if I/we want that. | |||
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"What the op is describing isn't a social, but a sexual "Agreed Costa Coffee never tasted so good | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x
Ok so I only soft play on the first meet
That makes more sense, I wouldn't call it a social.... But everyone is different.
What works for one won't work for another. Go have fun x
I think I was misleading. I don't enjoy the whole social thing but at the same time I enjoy a soft first meet, so that the sexual excitement builds "You still seem to be saying the same thing - which is fine if it works for you and them. Us? We always meet first in a public place to ensure that there is mutual attraction, that they do not appear to be bunny boilers and that they are genuine. For us, that just seems common sense. | |||
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"A social is a social.....no expectations....unless all agree to move on....but there should be no expectations..." Exactly! I find it strange to arrange a meet wanting oral & a coffee.
If & it's a big if, the opportunity arose spontaneously then that's a different ballgame | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. A social is supposed to be a chance for you to see each other in the flesh in a safe public environment and establish mutual attraction. IF you then want to go somewhere quiet to do other things you can but if you say you want social first meets where you expect to have a blow job I think a lot of people will tell you to go and whistle. " Haha well said  | |||
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"A social is a social.....no expectations....unless all agree to move on....but there should be no expectations... Exactly! I find it strange to arrange a meet wanting oral & a coffee.
If & it's a big if, the opportunity arose spontaneously then that's a different ballgame "Absolutely!!! If you both get on then a social can turn into something more intimate. But - as the name suggests - it's not expected. It's JUST a social meet. I enjoy them... No expectations other than meeting a new person who may become a sexual partner at some point. But in one sense a good social is essentially "clothes on foreplay!!" | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x "Can we have a "Go Large" social
x
S&H | |||
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A social is a social, there's no expectation of anything sexual at all.
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"I dont think ive ever met anyone male/female on any kind of meet that didnt end up peeling my clothes off at any the first given chance! Maybe im just much more sexier and intoxicating than you teabags? Lol
"Must be! My meet to fuck ratio is about 451-3 that's over 5 years. Sometimes those willys even trick me in a picture and in the flesh they aren't as big as I thought. | |||
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"A social is a social.....no expectations....unless all agree to move on....but there should be no expectations..." | |||
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I don't fuck guys who can't/won't interact with me and stimulate me on a social level | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" yeah a social is a non pressured way to meet and see if you fancy something more in a safe environment, nothing more | |||
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"What the op is describing isn't a social, but a sexual "Oh dam it I knew I should of lined you all up in weatherspoons.  xxx | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only" Then you are misinterpreting the meaning of "social meet." As people have been saying. Use the +quote button to show to whom you are replying. Threads are much easier to read that way. | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ?" Yes. Bearing in mind what I am looking for from here for me a social is exactly that. Anyone who doesn't understand that cleary isn't even in the starting blocks of what I'm after. I've had various types of social from a coffee through to cinema and theatre as well as dinners. | |||
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"it would put me off as well. if someone presumes i will be sexual with them then this is the biggest turn off for me. i've had the guys who want a social but then get 'creepy' and start trying to intrude on my personal space. i've figured out all kinds of ways to angle my body to keep them the fuck away from me. guys you have no idea how creepy you come across at times." I had that at the first group social I organised. He kept stroking my hair n putting his hand on my leg. Thankfully totally blanking him and concentrating on the more polite men worked but I was ready to tell him to jog the fuck on. Xxx | |||
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"it would put me off as well. if someone presumes i will be sexual with them then this is the biggest turn off for me. i've had the guys who want a social but then get 'creepy' and start trying to intrude on my personal space. i've figured out all kinds of ways to angle my body to keep them the fuck away from me. guys you have no idea how creepy you come across at times. I had that at the first group social I organised. He kept stroking my hair n putting his hand on my leg. Thankfully totally blanking him and concentrating on the more polite men worked but I was ready to tell him to jog the fuck on. Xxx" i angle my knees so they're high up and ponting at them. that way they can't get near enough to me. luckily i'm very flexible still coz my leg are only short.
i honestly think next time though i am gonna get up and walk off, giving them the evils as i walk away. | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? Well yeah and most paying customers that probably don't want to see someone getting sucked off in costas. A social is supposed to be a chance for you to see each other in the flesh in a safe public environment and establish mutual attraction. IF you then want to go somewhere quiet to do other things you can but if you say you want social first meets where you expect to have a blow job I think a lot of people will tell you to go and whistle. " 'Costa' haha | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only" 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used." i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral? | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral?"I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral?
I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too"i think with putting social as the title it confused some of us a bit. i get what you mean now. yeah maybe they don't have time for socials and just want satisfying, i can get why they'd do that. don't think i can hold off from sex myself if i want the guy though. | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral?
I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too
i think with putting social as the title it confused some of us a bit. i get what you mean now.
yeah maybe they don't have time for socials and just want satisfying, i can get why they'd do that.
don't think i can hold off from sex myself if i want the guy though."Yes I guess I only have myself to blame lol The same has happened to me, the tension has built through lots of oral and I have ended up braking my own guidelines lol | |||
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"So you're say you ask to meet a woman and if you don't feel any attraction you have a 69? " I only meet people I am initially attracted to but I need to find there personality attractive, so I take it in stages | |||
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"Some people like a social first but my version of a social is an "oral only" meet the first time. I like the building of the sexual tension Does this put some woman off ? That would out us off. For me a social is just that, no play involved, promised or expected. I want to check you out, make sure the attraction translates from web to reality and to make sure we are all comfortable in limits, wants, needs and expectations.... Plus a giggle over a few drinks. The nearest thing to play is heavy flirting and perhaps a kiss and a bum squeeze at the end of the social. What you have described to me is a soft swing meet. Red x
Ok so I only soft play on the first meet
That makes more sense, I wouldn't call it a social.... But everyone is different.
What works for one won't work for another. Go have fun x
I think I was misleading. I don't enjoy the whole social thing but at the same time I enjoy a soft first meet, so that the sexual excitement builds "I don't do soft meets. | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral?
I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too
i think with putting social as the title it confused some of us a bit. i get what you mean now.
yeah maybe they don't have time for socials and just want satisfying, i can get why they'd do that.
don't think i can hold off from sex myself if i want the guy though.
Yes I guess I only have myself to blame lol
The same has happened to me, the tension has built through lots of oral and I have ended up braking my own guidelines lol"that's actually pretty hot. i'd love guys to approach me without really thinking about sex or getting sexual in messages and we meet up but end up being naughty. it's way more spontaneous than even asking for a fuck right now. hmmm i'm warming up to this idea a lot now. | |||
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"I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too" Sounds like what you mean is that you prefer a first sexual meet to be oral-only, if there's been no social meet beforehand? So if you've had a social meet (an actual social meet), then later, your first sexual meet might be whatever you both fancy. But if the lady doesn't want a social meet, you're not so keen on going beyond oral the first time you see each other. Have I got that right? I think there's some confusion over terminology. | |||
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"I guess what I meant was.... When I am arranging a meet with someone for the first time and she isn't wanting a social first, then I insist on a oral only meet the first time. I hope that make sense So what I meant was in that situation my "social/first meet" is oral only 'Insist' all ya want fella. I can imagine you getting told to jog on* by alot of the ladies on here. A social is just that - an opportunity to determine whether you want a play meet in the future. Unless you arrange a social with the opportunity to play if it arises 'insisting' play on a social means it's a play meet. * other phrases maybe used. i think it does work though. his veris are stunning women also.
i'm not sure exactly what he means but he means his first meet is him offering to give women oral?
I am totally open to social meets, they are a great way to meet people and get to know them, but sometimes a lady is not into social meets so I still meet them but for a soft "oral only" meet first time. Then if it goes well we meet again for more full on fun. I also like the way that kind of builds up the sexual tension too
i think with putting social as the title it confused some of us a bit. i get what you mean now.
yeah maybe they don't have time for socials and just want satisfying, i can get why they'd do that.
don't think i can hold off from sex myself if i want the guy though.
Yes I guess I only have myself to blame lol
The same has happened to me, the tension has built through lots of oral and I have ended up braking my own guidelines lol
that's actually pretty hot.
i'd love guys to approach me without really thinking about sex or getting sexual in messages and we meet up but end up being naughty. it's way more spontaneous than even asking for a fuck right now.
hmmm i'm warming up to this idea a lot now. "Good sex is a series of situations, chats, etc. You build the scene then give it 100% I love spending a long time on oral because it often ends up becoming a mind blowing situation | |||
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