FabSwingers.com forum: London Cuts Protests

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

hahahaha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wish all these anti-govt protesters had taken to the streets when Labour were squandering our nation's wealth then perhaps they wouldn't have had to take to the streets now (causing more damage and litter that has to be paid for to rectify).

I agree with the right to peaceful protest but if we're honest, these marches are being orchestrated by anti-coalition grudge bearers who refuse to acknowledge the outcome of a legitimate election. Even Milliband was out there stirring it up. Very mature Ed the Red, very mature.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wish all these anti-govt protesters had taken to the streets when Labour were squandering our nation's wealth then perhaps they wouldn't have had to take to the streets now (causing more damage and litter that has to be paid for to rectify).

Bollox. 24ct bollox.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is Ed Milliband not allowed to take part in an organised peaceful protest?

Perhaps we should put him under house arrest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thing that pissed me off was a protester was talking to the BBC on the phone saying they are "trapped" in Trafalgar Square, except the real situation was that the kettling was on 3 sides with a 4th side open (which you can see from the TV footage).

So the "protesters" in that area where *actively* pushing against the police lines to get towards the Olympic clock.

Funny thing is if you want to have an effect on big business that isn't paying their complete dues in tax you are better off standing in front of the shops handing out leaflets to the customers *and* give them advice on alternative shops that are more morally balanced (co-op is a good example).

Tut. People, can't live with them can't kill 'em

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

jeez talk about spin and scraping the barrel ,they are a one term government wishy ,live with it, accept it ,and get used to the fact that having shafted the poor (again), along with the middle classes, in order to support corporate dominance, it will be another 18 years in the wilderness fortunately dragging the lib's with you.

The conservative traditional "trickle down wealth policy" just does not work all you get with the Tories is trickle up poverty people are a bit more savvy after thatcher,and after all Cameron is a self confessed son of thatcher

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Main problem is those with the power and money have the power and money to keep hold of it. *shrugs*

The real underlying problem is that society rewards those who have lower moral standards; i.e. don't mind who they stand on to get ahead. So we are effectively promoting those who care less to the top, (business, government, whatever)

If you are a "moral" business person you find it very hard to get anywhere unfortunately.

*shrugs again*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PS: Trickle down economics has proven to be false. If you want strong capitalism you need a strong government, one has the tenancy to concentrate power and wealth into the hands of the few and create monopolies (there can be only one), the other is supposed to counteract that and provide a viable long term society.

We are lacking the latter!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/03/11 14:06:59]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"jeez talk about spin and scraping the barrel ,they are a one term government wishy ,live with it, accept it ,and get used to the fact that having shafted the poor (again), along with the middle classes, in order to support corporate dominance, it will be another 18 years in the wilderness fortunately dragging the lib's with you.

Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago.

For a strong economy you need to recognise and reward strong business leaders who make hard decisions for long term good of everyone. Ok, they not always right but that's the nature of the beast. If we were all blessed with foresight there wouldn't be any poverty in the world anywhere. It narks me though that Labour have to act like little children throwing their toys out of the pram because the Big Boys won't let them play Government anymore.

Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.

Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

Blair had a vision, New Labour, and for a while it looked like it was going to work - I even voted for the guy, but New Labour's downfall was orchestrated by one person alone - Gordon Brown - and his insistence that he 'should have his turn at being top dog'. This country does not trust a party of government that changes the Prime Minister in mid-term. Our core belief is that the PM is elected by the populace.

That's why Major lost to Blair.

And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

Your insistence that the Coalition will be out at the next election is based purely upon hope. There is absolutely diddlysquat resembling anything akin to substance behind it.

Mark my words. In two years time the run up to the next election begins and that's when the govt will start to give back some of what they are taking now. It's the golden rule of politics - take in the first half, give in the second, because the electorate have very short and very select memories

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

a couple of things here...

a) Ed was the main speaker at a peaceful demo of which 250,000 people attended...

b) even the met police have said the people who took place in the trouble had absolutely NOTHING.. let me repeat that..NOTHING to do with the main demonstration.. which they said was "remarkably peaceful and good spirited"

c) This type of this did happen under labour.. I think you ought to remember all of the "may day" demonstrations every year where there was trouble in the same area ish every year... when they had the marches against poverty where they attacked places in the city of london.... and others...

no offence wishy... but that is some seriously revisionist history going on in your post....

i was waiting to see if the press would try what they did with the student protests and link them both together..... but we all know the truth..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/03/11 14:35:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"a couple of things here...

a) Ed was the main speaker at a peaceful demo of which 250,000 people attended...

no offence wishy... but that is some seriously revisionist history going on in your post....

i was waiting to see if the press would try what they did with the student protests and link them both together..... but we all know the truth..

Sorry Fabio but the unions 'own' Labour so why would they call their members out against the party that allows them to flex their muscles periodically. The May Day demos you speak of were nothing more than the unions reminding Labour who had the real power.

I much prefer employment law over union muscle, as I remember clearly the unions at war with Thatcher and all the millions of ordinary people going without whilst Scargill et all lapped it up in luxury swanning around in fancy cars before fucking off to the EU and employing his entire family on the big fat EU gravy train.

Ed could have stayed away as he - and his people - knew that this peaceful protest would flare up into violence later. The student leaders should have known their march would be hijacked but it seems both Milliband and the Student Union were prepared to march in spite of that in order to get their message across. I have no sympathy for students after what happened in London a few months ago and I'm of the opinion that they SHOULD pay for their own education.

And I'm of the opinion that Ed the Red did himself no favours at all yesterday. He should have formulating good policy with his team instead of bandstanding at a demo that was always going to degrade into violence.

The Met said that the violence had nothing to do with the demo, but if that demo hadn't taken place then the ensuing violence wouldn't have happened either, so the two are inextricably linked.

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By *he BananamanMan
over a year ago

WORCESTERSHIRE

typical labour tactics in my opinion,they squandered all our money when in power and are now organising protests at the cuts which they through they're very own mismanagement!.

funny how now that they are no longer in power labour MP's have all got these valuable opinions and shout about what they think should be done,why were they not able to shout about it 12 months ago when they were able to do something about it?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since man has inhabited this planet "he" has simply had to adapt to change and unfortunately when "man" has had it so good, for so long the fear of change becomes overwhelming.

A country is like a home on a grander scale and when the income is limited you have to tighten your belt and make some sacrifices - this happens as much in your own home as it does on a National level. Spending your way out of the mess does not work and just makes things worse.

It is sad and unfortunate for the people who will lose jobs and pensions but throughout history there have been good times and bad times and the populus just has to get over it. Yes, there will be casualties but it just has to be done. People will have to broaden the horizons and look elsewhere for work - even in another country. Look what happened just a few years ago when work was hard to come by in Poland and Eastern Europe - people moved countries to find work and better their lives. This has happened through history and is the reason why we in this country have a real cocktail genetic make up.

Portugal did not adopt severe austeruty measures and that country is about to implode. Almost every serious economic commentator in the world is in agreement that to survive hard times you just have to make cuts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

typical labour tactics in my opinion,they squandered all our money when in power and are now organising protests at the cuts which they through they're very own mismanagement!.

I 2nd that!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago.

Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.

Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

That's why Major lost to Blair.

And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

Your insistence that the Coalition will be out at the next election is based purely upon hope. There is absolutely diddlysquat resembling anything akin to substance behind it.

Ha Ha so are you saying those 500,000 people dumped on the dole are going to vote tory for a few crumbs thrown back i dont think so ....

Also this misrepresentation of the facts that labour are the reason the WORLD went into economic meltdown is wearing thin now. also when you have had the reigns long enough to prove your policies work anything other than success wears thin ,clearly even after tossing 500,000 public sector workers on the dole the deficit will have risen by 500 million by the end of the tory term. The days where you can convert the middle classes to the dole and use it as a legitimate economic tactic are gone .

Labour are doing exactly what the tories did in opposition and saying nothing, apart from the cuts are too deep and too quick. Now i wonder why they are doing that ? lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/03/11 15:33:20]

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

[Removed by poster at 27/03/11 15:36:23]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

You have excelled yourself this time Wiahy, everyone involved in the main march yesterday....Including the Met Police....have clearly and openly stated on television today that this group of political agitators, many from other European countries, infiltrated the proceedings yesterday for their own means.

The assistant commisioner of the Met Police was on Sky news this morning describing this group of anarchists as people already known to British and European Police agencies.....yet YOU have managed to lump thme in with the Labour party and trade unions.

It is becoming more and more apparent on these types of thread that you are a bit of a bandwagon jumper.....even your hero Cameron hasn't stooped so low as to accuse Labour of wrongdoing in all this.

If and when the policies of this government start to have a resounding effect on you and your family I am guessing you will not be seen commenting too much on these issues as you are classic 'I'm all right Jack'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

typical labour tactics in my opinion,they squandered all our money when in power and are now organising protests at the cuts which they through they're very own mismanagement!."

Is that a fact?!! Really?!! Gee, silly me. Wow...I'm sure the building I go to work in every day - with the words "trade union" outside is owned and paid for by civil servants, the same civil servant who pay me on average three times as much as they earn to look after their interest. The same people who, along with their children took part in yesterday's demonstrations: which they've spent months organising: NOT the Labour party...but hey, you obviously know more than I do!

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By *he BananamanMan
over a year ago

WORCESTERSHIRE

maybe i do?,maybe i dont!,but surely we are all entitled to an opinion?,it is not just a privilige of the lefties?.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago"

-------------------------------

Errr Labour were not in power 30 years ago the Tories were

------------------------

"For a strong economy you need to recognise and reward strong business leaders who make hard decisions for long term good of everyone. Ok, they not always right but that's the nature of the beast. If we were all blessed with foresight there wouldn't be any poverty in the world anywhere. It narks me though that Labour have to act like little children throwing their toys out of the pram because the Big Boys won't let them play Government anymore."

-----------------------

Do you include the leaders of the banks who paid themselves obscene bonuses by buying into piss poor paper investments without proper risk analysis in order to ramp up bonus income and continue to do so ?

--------------------------

"Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

-----------------------------

Errrm that is the role of Her Majesty's opposition Wishy.

-----------------------------

" New Labour's downfall was orchestrated by one person alone - Gordon Brown - and his insistence that he 'should have his turn at being top dog'. This country does not trust a party of government that changes the Prime Minister in mid-term. Our core belief is that the PM is elected by the populace."

--------------------------

Selective memory wishy, i must of missed the election when thatcher resigned not leaving a successor so that Major ,Hessletine and Whitelaw had to slug it out for the top job,even though labour called for an election.

You have to stop rewriting history to make the picture fit

---------------------------------

That's why Major lost to Blair.

------------------------

that is not the reason he lost to Blair

in the meantime he fought and won a General election !!!

-----------------------------

"And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

------------------------------

No actually he was not "ousted" he lost because despite getting more votes than both the Torys and the liberals Individually ,he refused to horse trade with the liberals.quite interestingly t the best figures the coalition have had so far is when they came to power ,proving the economic recovery package Brown put into place had started to work.

if your going to quote from history please at least try to get it right .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ha Ha so are you saying those 500,000 people dumped on the dole are going to vote tory for a few crumbs thrown back i dont think so ...."

Nope, those 500k 'workers' would be the 'workers' the labour govt created artificially to trim the unemployment figures down in a foolhardy attempt to demonstrate that their policies were working.

They weren't, of course, as we all know now.

Also this misrepresentation of the facts that labour are the reason the WORLD went into economic meltdown is wearing thin now. "

Go and do some research. Specifically, research what Gordon Brown said in his interview with Martin Bashir.

Sod it, I'll tell you.

Brown ADMITTED in that interview that he sould have regulated the banks. He was lobbied by the banks to loosen regulation and he caved in.

The economies of the world take their cue from Wall St and the LSE (London is still regarded as the financial centre of world markets, but you'll probably dispute that).

Toxic mortgages, speculative trading on the commodities markets and a gung ho attitude towards other people's money by foolish bankers coupled with a laxing of the regulations caused the world economic meltdown (apart from India & China who rode it on the crest of a wave).

Brown had his role in that. He had the power to reign them in and he didn't.

also when you have had the reigns long enough to prove your policies work anything other than success wears thin ,"

If you HAVE been in power a long time and your policies ARE working - you'd still be in power, wouldn't you?

clearly even after tossing 500,000 public sector workers on the dole the deficit will have risen by 500 million by the end of the tory term."

Will have? You are blessed with foresight? Neat!

The days where you can convert the middle classes to the dole and use it as a legitimate economic tactic are gone .

The thing about the middle classes is that they are usually quite adept at adapting to new circumstances. Those put out of work now will soon find themselves another job (yes, they are out there you know). I have several friends who have retrained in completely different fields because they saw what was coming and got out before being pushed. Clever guys who worked hard to secure a future for themselves and their families.

That's what smart people do.

Labour are doing exactly what the tories did in opposition and saying nothing, apart from the cuts are too deep and too quick. Now i wonder why they are doing that ? lol "

Only this week, Ed Milliband was pressed on his vision of where Labour should be going and he had nothing to say. He looked acutely embarrassed that he couldn't answer the reporter when she pressed him again and again about what he would do about the deficit.

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By *ex.IncCouple
over a year ago

Castleford

Wouldnt it be funny if someone shouted out 'This is Sparta!'

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Sorry, but there's no mandate for what they're doing, such as major restructuring of the NHS etc: these coalition partners are not to be trusted, as gauged by their lies and commitments before the election, many of which have been broken.

If tax was collected appropriately, mostly from large corporations and very rich individuals, there would be no need for cuts.

This is all about implementing ideological change, and the deficits etc are red herrings. Just because these condem liars repeat the mantra over and over makes it no truer. Research Naomi Klein, and disaster capitalism, for how right wing ideological changes are being implemented at every opportunity, and especially when there are 'emergency' conditions that can be blamed for them.

What the right want is a subservient population who will do as they are told, paid peanuts, have limited employment rights, benefits that are derisory, weaken or eliminate union powers, health care that is available for the wealthier more exclusively and foster corporations that will make £billions off the public/public sector, whilst jobs are slashed.

As for the demonstration: I am proud that so many demonstrated, it made me proud to be British. The police were also behaving more respectably than they had done at student demos too, which was great: of course, many of them will also lose money and jobs, and so will be in support of this.

As for grudge bearers, the UK population has every right to bear grudges against right wingers who see no evil in decimating our society and institutions, such as the NHS, that have been paid for by millions of taxpayers over decades etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".........

no offence wishy... but that is some seriously revisionist history going on in your post....

................

Or, as I pointed out (above), - 24ct bollox.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago

-------------------------------

Errr Labour were not in power 30 years ago the Tories were

------------------------

Labour 1997-2010

Conservatives: 1979-1997

Labour: 1976-1979

1976-2011 = 35 years.

Ok, not quite 30 but close enough. Next time I'll be more specific.

-----------------------

--------------------------

Did you miss the bit where I said "ok, they don't always get it right'? Yup, seems so. Selective reading?

Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

-----------------------------

Errrm that is the role of Her Majesty's opposition Wishy.

-----------------------------

There is a world of difference between being in opposition and merely being contrarian. For Labour to win another election they will have to get off the fence and put forward some real policies for taking this country forward instead of just saying, "Oh no, that won't work!" - as it begs the inevitable question in response, "Well, come on then, what will work?"

New Labour's downfall was orchestrated by one person alone - Gordon Brown - and his insistence that he 'should have his turn at being top dog'. This country does not trust a party of government that changes the Prime Minister in mid-term. Our core belief is that the PM is elected by the populace.

--------------------------

You have to stop rewriting history to make the picture fit

---------------------------------

Just how do you think Brown succeeded Blair, Major succeeded Thatcher?

Do you believe that each successor simply knocked on his boss' door and asked for the job, and Blair and Thatcher before him simply said, "Oh, ok then, I'll just get my coat."

Thatcher knew the knives were out for her from her long time closest allies who knew she'd been outmanoevred and advised her to jump before she was pushed. And just look what we got in her stead... Mr Grey! What a total dullard he was.

Anyone could have stood for Labour in 1997 and beaten Major, but, in fairness to Blair, he talked a good talk and reorganised Labour to the extent that he felt powerful enough to dump Clause 4 in the Labour constitution.

That's why Major lost to Blair.

------------------------

that is not the reason he lost to Blair

in the meantime he fought and won a General election !!!

As above.

-----------------------------

And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

------------------------------

No actually he was not "ousted" he lost because despite getting more votes than both the Torys and the liberals "

I'm sorry, did I miss 2010?

Did you just say Brown/Labour got more votes than the Tories?

What was that you just said about rewriting history?

Um... lemme see if I remember the ACTUAL result.... um...Ah yes, got it..

Cons 36.1% (307 seats)

Lab 29.0% (258)

LD 24% (57)

Oth 11.9% (28)

Individually ,he refused to horse trade with the liberals.quite interestingly t the best figures the coalition have had so far is when they came to power ,proving the economic recovery package Brown put into place had started to work.

if your going to quote from history please at least try to get it right .

In closing, it would appear that Labour supporters absolutely refuse to concede that Labour had anything at all to do with the financial meltdown NOR that they actually LOST the election.

Additionally, when Portugal collapses, the UK are committed to sending them a £6bn rescue package that was negotiated by Alistair Darling AFTER the election but BEFORE the coalition had formed a govt. That was done in the 5 days between May 6th and May 11th. Darling spent £6bn of our money knowing he was never going to have to justify it.

The counsel for the Prosecution rests m'lud.

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago

-------------------------------

Errr Labour were not in power 30 years ago the Tories were

------------------------

Labour 1997-2010

Conservatives: 1979-1997

Labour: 1976-1979

1976-2011 = 35 years.

Ok, not quite 30 but close enough. Next time I'll be more specific.

-----------------------

--------------------------

Did you miss the bit where I said "ok, they don't always get it right'? Yup, seems so. Selective reading?

Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

-----------------------------

Errrm that is the role of Her Majesty's opposition Wishy.

-----------------------------

--------------------------

You have to stop rewriting history to make the picture fit

---------------------------------

Just how do you think Brown succeeded Blair, Major succeeded Thatcher?

Do you believe that each successor simply knocked on his boss' door and asked for the job, and Blair and Thatcher before him simply said, "Oh, ok then, I'll just get my coat."

That's why Major lost to Blair.

------------------------

that is not the reason he lost to Blair

in the meantime he fought and won a General election !!!

As above.

-----------------------------

And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

------------------------------

No actually he was not "ousted" he lost because despite getting more votes than both the Torys and the liberals

I'm sorry, did I miss 2010?

Did you just say Brown/Labour got more votes than the Tories?

What was that you just said about rewriting history?

Um... lemme see if I remember the ACTUAL result.... um...Ah yes, got it..

Cons 36.1% (307 seats)

Lab 29.0% (258)

LD 24% (57)

Oth 11.9% (28)

if your going to quote from history please at least try to get it right .

In closing, it would appear that Labour supporters absolutely refuse to concede that Labour had anything at all to do with the financial meltdown NOR that they actually LOST the election.

The counsel for the Prosecution rests m'lud."

the cons will always attack public services, deficit or no deficit, i worked in the civil service when they tried to wreck it, i worked on the railways when they wrecked it with their stupid privatisation, they do this then the companies that pay money into the cons coffers are awarded the contracts of running the newly privatised companies.

also the labour party does not need to put forward their answers to any problems as they are not in power, just like the cons did during labours last term, to be honest every time a condem is interviewed they reel out the deficit crap,and the position we inherited its wearing pretty thin now and i think peope are fed up of it being wheeled out at every interview.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

to be honest every time a condem is interviewed they reel out the deficit crap

Q.E.D.

Denial and absolute refusal to accept that Labour were the party in power and allowed it to happen with bad management and abysmal policy making.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

'to be honest every time a condem is interviewed they reel out the deficit crap,and the position we inherited its wearing pretty thin now and i think peope are fed up of it being wheeled out at every interview.'

Yeah, they're mantra has worn thinner than it ever was, and they're being seen as the sharks that they are. There is psychological research that does find that repeated statements can start to become a reality and believed, which is why they and others do it, I think. They are most-or even only-interested in further decimation of our infrastructure. Everything that the Cons have done, from Thatchers care in the community, onwards, has been shameful. Now we are faced with privatised industries, train companies with soaring fares above inflation rates that will not help to reduce road use - and thus will escalate global warming - and an NHS that's being privatised, even though the Cons lied prior to the election about there being no major changes to the the NHS. The Cons and LibDems have proven themselves as dishonest, disreputable and their coalition is a blight upon our society, that we may never recover from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh my!! I've heard it all now.

The Tories are to blame for GLOBAL warming. hehehehe.. sorry, forgive me if I laugh, it's involuntary and I can't seem to stop it.

If you've bought into the global warming global conspiracy then you probably may be interested in this passage I found on celsias.com:

"The average global temperature is rising because the Sun has entered into an extended solar minimum (no spots on the sun) which began in 2005 and has not yet reversed itself, with the exception of a few spots so tiny they can only be seen with a high-powered telescope. In fact, the sun has reached a milestone, namely that an entire month has passed without a visible sunspot, a situation not seen since 1910. Even more significant, the first seven months of the year recorded only three sunspots, with none in August - a decline in activity that has taken astronomers by surprise.

This lack of activity, which has only three precedents over the last 1000 years (the Dalton, Maunder, and Spörer Minimums) have all resulted in rapid cooling. The last, occurring from 1790-1830, was severe enough to earn the title, "Mini Ice Age".

The global warming alarmists have put forward their arguments based on research paid for by those with a collective interest in promoting alternative biofuels, and escalting a 'green' way of living to protect the planet, but, interestingly, it is more expensive to be 'green' isn't it? Green fuel is more expnsive and green cars are twice the price of so-called 'dirty' transport.

Why is it, if it's in everyone's interest to be green and save the world, that it's not made far cheaper to do so?

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

Why is it, if it's in everyone's interest to be green and save the world, that it's not made far cheaper to do so?

Made cheaper?

I thought you would have known why "new" technology, etc was always dearer to begin with.

Companies look to get the costs back for their research and development work as soon as they can and then they can get into making profits on all the hard work they have done over the years before the "product" reached the marketplace!

Years ago most folk wouldn't have been able to afford an LCD flatscreen TV (for example) when they were first launched, but now they have become "the norm" as the companies have reduced the price now they are "in profit" from their earlier research and development costs.

So the more green technologies get used the cheaper they will become.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People spouting off gas is whats to blame for global warming

Think its time to ban political threads on here like most other forums do

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"People spouting off gas is whats to blame for global warming

Think its time to ban political threads on here like most other forums do

They can't be banned, they are a great source of entertainment and help to pass the day with a good laugh!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"People spouting off gas is whats to blame for global warming

Think its time to ban political threads on here like most other forums do

no way its great fun,normally civilized and does no harm ,if people don't like em they pass em by anyway .lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"............to be honest every time a condem is interviewed they reel out the deficit crap,and the position we inherited its wearing pretty thin now and i think peope are fed up of it being wheeled out at every interview."

It's a trick the Con Dems stole from their hero Joseph Goebbels.

Tell a lie. Repeat it often enough and loud enough and some dafties will believe it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...............

The Met said that the violence had nothing to do with the demo, but if that demo hadn't taken place then the ensuing violence wouldn't have happened either, so the two are inextricably linked."

So, if there's street violence in London on April 29th, it'll all be the fault of the wedding planned for Westminster Abbey?

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"...............

The Met said that the violence had nothing to do with the demo, but if that demo hadn't taken place then the ensuing violence wouldn't have happened either, so the two are inextricably linked.

So, if there's street violence in London on April 29th, it'll all be the fault of the wedding planned for Westminster Abbey?

pmsl......i can imagine all the baronets,lords and privy council having a ruck over who has the best seats

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why is it, if it's in everyone's interest to be green and save the world, that it's not made far cheaper to do so?

Made cheaper?

I thought you would have known why "new" technology, etc was always dearer to begin with.

So the more green technologies get used the cheaper they will become.

And if you recall, flat screens were developed to replace the 'harmful' tube TVs we all had before.

Here's my take on things, just an opinion though, ok:

We're just over halfway through burning/using the Earth's supply of fossil fuels, apparently. A viable alternative to heating our homes and running our cars etc will be needed sooner rather than later so private businesses, with govt backing (read: subsidy), are developing new ways of doing precisely that.

But, and it's a big BUT, no govt wants to be responsible for dumping an entire industry on the scrapheap - all those workers who drill for oil & gas and mine for coal, the ships that transport it, the tankers that deliver it, the car plants that manufacture the cars and equipment that use it and the service industry built up to keep it all running smoothly.

Not on my watch, you'll hear them mutter quietly.

So what's the answer?

Well, minister, we must introduce these new tachnologies gradually, allow them to be a fad for a while, we then let the fad grow but in order to keep it from growing too fast we must keep the price of new technology artificially high so that only those that can afford it can buy it - test it out, if you like. Then, when we're ready, we drop the subsidies, permit the private companies to flood the market with this new technology which will lower the price. Only when more new units are sold than the older stuff we want to get rid off will we put out some scare tactic that basically says your old stuff is harmful. (Remember CFCs in refridgerators?).

Ah, I see where you're coming from, sounds like a plan, but how do we sell it to the muggi.. er.. consumers?

That's the brilliant part, minister. We tell them that the Earth is warming up because of all the harmful emissions petrol etc is releasing into the atmos and that we have to ban certain things. Like cars. Petrol driven ones anyway. But, like a new world saviour, Ta-Da! Here's a nice new affordable green one you can all drive about in. And... your old boiler has to go but we got some nice shiny panels you can stick on your roof to trap the sunrays and heat your homes!

Wonderful! Just what we need. Is it taxable?

Of course, minister, everything is taxable but this is a double whammy - we tax the new stuff so that it is taken up on a gradual basis at a speed we determine, and we tax the old stuff to get people to switch!

Ok, then, let's get our people and your people on it and come up with a timescale.

We've already done that, minister. how does 50 years sound?

Perfect! I'll be long gone by then and some other mug, um.. I mean sitting PM can deal with the fall out of all the job losses etc.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

Why is it, if it's in everyone's interest to be green and save the world, that it's not made far cheaper to do so?

Made cheaper?

I thought you would have known why "new" technology, etc was always dearer to begin with.

So the more green technologies get used the cheaper they will become.

And if you recall, flat screens were developed to replace the 'harmful' tube TVs we all had before.

Yeah and the "green technologies" are being developed to replace the way we currently generate the power we need to run the LCD TVs, etc

My point still stands that the more they are used the cheaper they will become.

As to the rest of your post, well I couldn't be bothered to read right the way through it as I got bored of the sarcasm just after you had answered my earlier point basically backing up said point!

PS - No need to go trawling the net for more answers to this post as I probably won't be interested in reading any more sarcasm!

PPS - Political threads are still a great form of entertainment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PS - No need to go trawling the net for more answers to this post as I probably won't be interested in reading any more sarcasm!

Aw I'm hurt! That was all me own work!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...............

The Met said that the violence had nothing to do with the demo, but if that demo hadn't taken place then the ensuing violence wouldn't have happened either, so the two are inextricably linked.

So, if there's street violence in London on April 29th, it'll all be the fault of the wedding planned for Westminster Abbey?

pmsl......i can imagine all the baronets,lords and privy council having a ruck over who has the best seats "

I'm reminded of the lines

"We're the first ones to starve, the first ones to die

The first ones in line for that pie-in-the-sky

And always the last when the cream is shared out

For the worker is working when the fat cat's about"

There's a lot of people whose personal safety that day will depend on the work of others. Others whose jobs, wages and conditions of service the titled, ennobled and tiaraed few are seeking to decimate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ............

As to the rest of your post, well I couldn't be bothered to read right the way through it as I got bored of the sarcasm just after you had answered my earlier point basically backing up said point!

............. "

It's a poor attempt at a fillibuster. Sit up all night talking pish till everyone gets fed up and goes home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ............

As to the rest of your post, well I couldn't be bothered to read right the way through it as I got bored of the sarcasm just after you had answered my earlier point basically backing up said point!

.............

It's a poor attempt at a fillibuster. Sit up all night talking pish till everyone gets fed up and goes home."

Nobody forces you to read these forums.

Nobody asked you to speak on their behalf either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a lot of people whose personal safety that day will depend on the work of others. Others whose jobs, wages and conditions of service the titled, ennobled and tiaraed few are seeking to decimate.

Yes, yes, of course they are. Those poor poor ignorant working masses eh? Oh it's so easy to 'decimate' the working class, isn't it. Cos they're just dumb and don't know when they're about to be royally shafted up the arse huh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ............

As to the rest of your post, well I couldn't be bothered to read right the way through it as I got bored of the sarcasm just after you had answered my earlier point basically backing up said point!

.............

It's a poor attempt at a fillibuster. Sit up all night talking pish till everyone gets fed up and goes home.

Nobody forces you to read these forums.

Nobody asked you to speak on their behalf either."

There's no need to get touchy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is there a point to your post? There certainly isn't any sense to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is there a point to your post? There certainly isn't any sense to it."

Just responding like for like.

Thought you would have been in bed by now.

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By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago

folkestone

I think your being slightly disingenous about Labour squandering the nation's wealth, when one of the reasons they had to spend so much money, was the shocking lack of investment in our schools and hospitals in the 1980's and 1990's under the conservative government. And this was with the bonus of North sea oil income, and the proceeds from the numerous floatations they had in the 1980's. Have you ever asked where that money went? - because it didnt seem to be spent on capital investments like schools or hospitals.

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

Or to put it plainly, whoever is in government, someone will be pissed off

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think there right to protest but it a pain when there causing damage

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i think there right to protest but it a pain when there causing damage

The 250,000+ protestors on the official march caused NO DAMAGE....In fact if you have watched the news conference today by the Met Police they clearly attributed absolutely no blame at all to the organisers nor the protestors on the main march, where there were only Five arrests.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"i think there right to protest but it a pain when there causing damage

this is the message that gets lost thanks to the yobs that just turn up and smash stuff up!!!

the news were calling them activists - activists for what cause??

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

pmsl

loved it

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Anti Capitalism

Anti Globalisation

Enviromental Activists

Anti War

Many of them had arrived in London on Eurostar services from all over Europe, most are full time anarchists.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Anti Capitalism

Anti Globalisation

Enviromental Activists

Anti War

Many of them had arrived in London on Eurostar services from all over Europe, most are full time anarchists.

but what they do doesnt make me sympethise with their cause, i dont give a shit what they are protesting about now cos all i see are mindless thugs causing trouble for people who wanted a peaceful protest

sorry but i will never understand mindless violence

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

They don't care if you or I....or anyone else come to that, understands their reasons for violent disorder.

The world will never be perfect enough for them, they live to cause this sort of disorder I am afraid.

I have seen enough of their literature in the past to come to the conclusion that their hatred is for most of the rest of the population.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...............

Thought you would have been in bed by now."

I was, but I usually like to check Fab when I get home afterwards

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

and that was the point that I tried to make and wishy tried to gloss over in his attack on milliband..

the police said the trouble wasn't caused by the 250,000 people on the march...

obviously there word isn't good enough for some people...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and that was the point that I tried to make and wishy tried to gloss over in his attack on milliband..

the police said the trouble wasn't caused by the 250,000 people on the march...

obviously there word isn't good enough for some people...

Theresa May, admittedly a stranger to the truth, has just put the number at 400,000.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and that was the point that I tried to make and wishy tried to gloss over in his attack on milliband..

the police said the trouble wasn't caused by the 250,000 people on the march...

obviously there word isn't good enough for some people...

Would this the same 'demonstrators' who occupied Fortnum & Mason and had the gall to claim that the customers in the shop talked and joked with them, the staff inquired as to the specifics of their 'cause' as though they were considering joining them, and that everyone went about their business as usual regardless that there were 30-odd oiks smashing the place up.

*Those* 'demonstrators', you mean?

It's a little niave to believe that of 250,000 protestors than not a single one of them caused any damage at all, nor was arrested for public disorder offences when we know 146 people were arrested. Did the police just pluck them off the street at random then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As Jane pointed out (above) 5, that's five, people were arrested on the main march. That's the figure from the Metropolitan Police.

5 out of what even the Tories admit was 400,000.

Needless to say, both the polis and the Tories could be lying.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

and that was the point that I tried to make and wishy tried to gloss over in his attack on milliband..

the police said the trouble wasn't caused by the 250,000 people on the march...

obviously there word isn't good enough for some people...

*Those* 'demonstrators', you mean?

Are you deliberately acting daft Wishy?, the main march never even passed anywhere near Fortnum and Masons...the Met Police have again today stressed that the main march was peaceful, if the Met Police have placed the blame for the damages firmly on the heads of the Anarchist groups that had nothing to do with the main march then why can't you get YOUR head around it?

I can only put it down to you winding people up.....

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By *eaboMan
over a year ago

marden

i was in stuck in london on saturday coz of the protest so watched it going past for a while. The whole atmosphere was that of a carnival, people were making a point but enjoying it. Mixed in with the genuine marchers and walking parrallel to them were groups of anarchists and class war supporters who stuck out like a sore willy. Dark clothes, faces covered, safety hats, these were the people responsible for the trouble, not the half a million peacefully exercising their democratic right to protest. Isn't it funny that everytime you see reports of violence on protest marches the pratts involved are wearing dark clothes, faces covered and safety helmets?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It must all be very galling for the Tories, especially on the day when they've had to do a u turn on Educational Maintenance Allowance.

Yet another kick in Michael Gove's particularly small testicles.

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

wouldn't the Libyans love to be able to do what the 250,000 or 400,000 (which ever paper you read) people did over the weekend....its not a bad old country what we live in is it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"wouldn't the Libyans love to be able to do what the 250,000 or 400,000 (which ever paper you read) people did over the weekend....its not a bad old country what we live in is it

You have to wonder, if it weren't for then fact that most of what's left of the RAF is otherwise spoken for, whether Cameron would have carpet bombed Hyde Park.

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By *ixson-BallsMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

"wouldn't the Libyans love to be able to do what the 250,000 or 400,000 (which ever paper you read) people did over the weekend....its not a bad old country what we live in is it

You have to wonder, if it weren't for then fact that most of what's left of the RAF is otherwise spoken for, whether Cameron would have carpet

bombed Hyde Park."

perhaps thats what those who invaded fortnums and masons wanted to do...carpet bomb hyde park with quails eggs and fois gras

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can only put it down to you winding people up....."

No Jane, you know me well enough by now to know that I'm reasonably well informed. Of course I follow the news and try to listen to sources from across the political divide, so I know full well that the rabble rousers were nothing more than brainwashed idiots (although that implies they have a brain to wash) who's sole intention was to hijack a peaceful protest about the cuts and cause mayhem...

...it's just that it's terrific good sport to see certain people on here gnaw like a dog with a bone on various issues.

As an aside, I'm wondering if I have the gift of second sight or something as only yesterday I posted a somewhat sarcastic post about how govts intend to replace the motor vehicle with greener cars (read up), and now today an article on the BBC News website is all about the EU wanting to ban petrol and diesel cars in city centres by 2050. The UK have rejected the proposal though - for now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those dashed protestors are a real bunch of cads.

I wouldn't mind but my bulk order of quail's eggs and champers hasn't turned up yet as the lads at Fortnum and Mason say they had a bit of bother at t'weekend.

It simply wont do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

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By *ber2Couple
over a year ago

mid wales.

[Removed by poster at 29/03/11 15:34:22]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Labour has PROVEN that their way doesn't work. They fucked it up in their last term of office and did the same thing 30 years ago

-------------------------------

Errr Labour were not in power 30 years ago the Tories were

You sure you didn't try to wreck the civil service an railways ? You little leftie scamp!

------------------------

Labour 1997-2010

Conservatives: 1979-1997

Labour: 1976-1979

1976-2011 = 35 years.

Ok, not quite 30 but close enough. Next time I'll be more specific.

-----------------------

--------------------------

Did you miss the bit where I said "ok, they don't always get it right'? Yup, seems so. Selective reading?

Ed Milliband will never be elected Prime Minister in a million years, he hasn't got a chance.Why?

Because in this time of austerity he has a golden opportunity to put forward his party's vision of the future but instead he prefers to castigate the Coalition at every opportunity he gets.

-----------------------------

Errrm that is the role of Her Majesty's opposition Wishy.

-----------------------------

--------------------------

You have to stop rewriting history to make the picture fit

---------------------------------

Just how do you think Brown succeeded Blair, Major succeeded Thatcher?

Do you believe that each successor simply knocked on his boss' door and asked for the job, and Blair and Thatcher before him simply said, "Oh, ok then, I'll just get my coat."

That's why Major lost to Blair.

------------------------

that is not the reason he lost to Blair

in the meantime he fought and won a General election !!!

As above.

-----------------------------

And that's why Brown was ousted at the earliest possible opportunity.

------------------------------

No actually he was not "ousted" he lost because despite getting more votes than both the Torys and the liberals

I'm sorry, did I miss 2010?

Did you just say Brown/Labour got more votes than the Tories?

What was that you just said about rewriting history?

Um... lemme see if I remember the ACTUAL result.... um...Ah yes, got it..

Cons 36.1% (307 seats)

Lab 29.0% (258)

LD 24% (57)

Oth 11.9% (28)

if your going to quote from history please at least try to get it right .

In closing, it would appear that Labour supporters absolutely refuse to concede that Labour had anything at all to do with the financial meltdown NOR that they actually LOST the election.

The counsel for the Prosecution rests m'lud.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was there a reason for quoting that entire passage? I can't see what you've added to it???

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

the Met Police have again today stressed that the main march was peaceful, if the Met Police have placed the blame for the damages firmly on the heads of the Anarchist groups that had nothing to do with the main march "

seconded and this was confirmed to me by some "insiders" who were at the scene

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

Good post !!! whenever people talk about labour squandering money the never look at the renewal program that ran for 13 year ,the new hospitals ,new schools ,and when we last had the tories in what did they do with the sale of the countries assets ,just blew a big kiss to the corporations ,made the British worker the easiest to get rid of in Europe and consigned 10% of the population to the dole queue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was replying to your leftie friend wishy and my post was definatly there when I pushed post , but never mind can't be bothered now . You won't convince the guy anyway he is a socialist a biased one at that . Who can ignore misgoverment by Blair and Brown for years then blame the Tories

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It must all be very galling for the Tories, especially on the day when they've had to do a u turn on Educational Maintenance Allowance.

Yet another kick in Michael Gove's particularly small testicles."

When I said 'u turn', I did, of course, mean humiliating u turn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And, as a direct consequence of Osborne's cock-up last Wednesday, "Energy giant Statoil has halted work on a North Sea development following Chancellor George Osborne's decision to increase tax on the industry."

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By *rumalexMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I was replying to your leftie friend wishy and my post was definatly there when I pushed post , but never mind can't be bothered now . You won't convince the guy anyway he is a socialist a biased one at that . Who can ignore misgoverment by Blair and Brown for years then blame the Tories "

i'm not a leftie i'm just speaking from experience, the tories wrecked the railways and they put companies that put money into their coffers into favourable position in the newly privatised companies, there is plenty i would criticise the last labour government for, i make up my mind based on my experiences i'm not a leftie and i'm not a con either, i make up my own mind on things, i dont read or listen to the biased press and follow what they say like some sheep

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

I don't know who you were referring to but If being a socialist "leftie" means you wish the govt of the day to help the poor,sick and disadvantaged in this country ,then yeah i will proudly nail my colours to that mast.

Naturally that indicates the right wing are against all of those principles to help that group of people.

And that is the case even tomorrow with unemployment at a 18 year high they are announcing the scrapping of the emergency needs fund for unemployed people.

Was it announced in the budget last week Nooooooooo was it in the liberal or conservative manifesto Noooooooo, will the people forget these unnecessarily deep cuts attacking the poor at the next election, trust me ....Nooooooooo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens."

Yes i think this will set the lib's back 30 years and i think the Tories will be in opposition for another 2 terms,

Don't get me wrong, we did need to cut back after the Global recession, but these cuts are too deep,it should of been over a longer time span ,and they definitely shouldn't of done it with a back drop of letting the employers off with the 9% Insurance contribution which they have passed on to normal working people from April,letting the banks off so lightly who are now paying huge bonuses again,and if you take into account the banks had there corporation tax cut ,have actually never had it so good.

Throw in the liberal jitters and beginnings of a revolt ,large increases in unemployment , a impending summer of discontent and its going to get warm for Dave 1 and Dave 2 .

Unfortunately until it happens or they U turn (unlikely unless forced),its going to be a bleak time for the ordinary working family never mind the poor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens."

since when did anything that happens in scotland re tories/libdems have any affect in westminster???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens.

since when did anything that happens in scotland re tories/libdems have any affect in westminster???"

You just said what I was thinking... what you doing in my mind huh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Alas, it is true. It makes me laugh that socialists always go on about socialism until they are BLUE in the face

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens.

since when did anything that happens in scotland re tories/libdems have any affect in westminster???

You just said what I was thinking... what you doing in my mind huh?

She saw an empty space and moved in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens.

since when did anything that happens in scotland re tories/libdems have any affect in westminster???"

It isn't about cause and effect - it's a portent.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Alas, it is true. It makes me laugh that socialists always go on about socialism until they are BLUE in the face

I think there will be a few RED faces in the cabinet by the autumn....when the strikes and protests hit home at Millbank.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there will be a few RED faces in the cabinet by the autumn....when the strikes and protests hit home at Millbank."

Now this is where I have my biggest problem with Labour.

An election is held democratically and all abide by the result, yes?

Not so with Labour if they lose it though.

What do they resort to?

A pattern of social upheaval, strikes, protests, demonstrations etc etc all designed to unstabilise the government who won the election fair and square.

When Labour were in power did we see armies of conservative voters taking to the streets of London invading Labour HQ and smashing it up?

That's why I despise the Labour Party. It's bullying tactics in the face of defeat like a child throwing a tantrum because it can't have it's own way.

Oppose the govt, sure, but via the despatch box and the ballot box, not by lobbing bricks at policemen and organising nationwide strikes that harm us all.

Yours,

A Now Lifelong Tory.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If the hundreds of people didn't agree Wishy, they wouldn't go on marches, whoever the party is.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Yours,

A Now Lifelong Tory.

Until that is their policies in the future affect you....then we'll see if you are lifelong after all....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the hundreds of people didn't agree Wishy, they wouldn't go on marches, whoever the party is."

Millions voted though. Didn't see millions in London demonstrating. In fact, I don't remember seeing that many demos anywhere whilst Labour were in office.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yours,

A Now Lifelong Tory.

Until that is their policies in the future affect you....then we'll see if you are lifelong after all....

As an adult I've lived under a long Tory govt and now a long Labour one.

I will never vote Labour again. Fact.

..and I can't see the LibDems recovering for at least a generation.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"If the hundreds of people didn't agree Wishy, they wouldn't go on marches, whoever the party is.

Millions voted though. Didn't see millions in London demonstrating. In fact, I don't remember seeing that many demos anywhere whilst Labour were in office."

I was just answering your post, not really wanting to get into the thread....and saying no one forced the hundreds of people to march, they are obviously upset over what is going on....unless Labour MP's had guns against their heads of course

Maybe the people were not as incensed as they are now and why you didn't see many demo's when Labour where in office.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have marched through London with 250,000 others on more than one occasion, and there was no trouble?

Its all about intention, and organisation.

And as ever, its the precious few ruining it for the majority of peaceful protesters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was just answering your post, not really wanting to get into the thread....and saying no one forced the hundreds of people to march, they are obviously upset over what is going on....unless Labour MP's had guns against their heads of course

Maybe the people were not as incensed as they are now and why you didn't see many demo's when Labour where in office."

I didn't mean for my comment to sound argumentative Ruggers. Sorry if it did. I was answering you lol.

It makes no sense for the TUC to organise against Labour as they are natural bedfellows, plus Labour were spending an awful amount of money whilst in power. Whether we had that money to spend or not is the crux of this debate but it cannot be denied that the legacy of that spendthrift policy is that the debt we were left with now has to be reconciled.

We all run households here and we all know that if we can't afford something we either save up for it or go without, or rejuggle, or make cutbacks.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"If the hundreds of people didn't agree Wishy, they wouldn't go on marches, whoever the party is.

Millions voted though. Didn't see millions in London demonstrating. In fact, I don't remember seeing that many demos anywhere whilst Labour were in office."

And I wonder why?.....I think we both know the answer to that one Wishy...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the hundreds of people didn't agree Wishy, they wouldn't go on marches, whoever the party is.

Millions voted though. Didn't see millions in London demonstrating. In fact, I don't remember seeing that many demos anywhere whilst Labour were in office.

And I wonder why?.....I think we both know the answer to that one Wishy...

I've stated above my opinion as to why.

I'm sure yours will be different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone seeking a foretaste of what will befall the Fib Dems and their Tory masters need only follow the party fortunes in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

Both parties are shedding candidates in barrel loads, either through sackings or resignations, and, as of yesterday, the Fib Dems poll rating was below that of the Greens.

since when did anything that happens in scotland re tories/libdems have any affect in westminster???

It isn't about cause and effect - it's a portent. "

nah its an omen

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"I think there will be a few RED faces in the cabinet by the autumn....when the strikes and protests hit home at Millbank.

Now this is where I have my biggest problem with Labour.

An election is held democratically and all abide by the result, yes?

Not so with Labour if they lose it though.

What do they resort to?

A pattern of social upheaval, strikes, protests, demonstrations etc etc all designed to unstabilise the government who won the election fair and square.

When Labour were in power did we see armies of conservative voters taking to the streets of London invading Labour HQ and smashing it up?

That's why I despise the Labour Party. It's bullying tactics in the face of defeat like a child throwing a tantrum because it can't have it's own way.

Oppose the govt, sure, but via the despatch box and the ballot box, not by lobbing bricks at policemen and organising nationwide strikes that harm us all.

Yours,

A Now Lifelong Tory."

And to be a lifelong tory is your right ,but 400-500000 people marching in any country is big news and a big statement,

re the Tory voters not marching i suspect they dont do anything if it doesnt effect them (Maggies mantra was after all "there is no such thing as society"), however what were the predominantly Tory hunting lobby doing in london,apart from blocking it with tractors,invading parliament during debate ,disrupting democratic process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And to be a lifelong tory is your right ,but 400-500000 people marching in any country is big news and a big statement,"

Hmmm.. the figure is creeping up to 500,000 now is it?

I see you have the inbuilt Labour talent for massaging figures to show what you want it to show.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" (Maggies mantra was after all "there is no such thing as society")"

It's a very simple feat to take a snippet one-liner from someone else's oratory and make it look like something completely different.

Why didn't you post the entire speech she made that day?

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

" (Maggies mantra was after all "there is no such thing as society")

It's a very simple feat to take a snippet one-liner from someone else's oratory and make it look like something completely different.

Why didn't you post the entire speech she made that day?

Because it was out of touch then and its even more out of touch now ,re the figures the police said 400-500k the tory press Daily mail said 500k

no massaging of figures there,unlike the Tory claims re the sure start budget lol

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

" i make up my mind based on my experiences i'm not a leftie and i'm not a con either, i make up my own mind on things, i dont read or listen to the biased press and follow what they say like some sheep

I think that sums it up nicely...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" (Maggies mantra was after all "there is no such thing as society")

It's a very simple feat to take a snippet one-liner from someone else's oratory and make it look like something completely different.

Why didn't you post the entire speech she made that day?

Because it was out of touch then and its even more out of touch now ,re the figures the police said 400-500k the tory press Daily mail said 500k

no massaging of figures there,unlike the Tory claims re the sure start budget lol

Hey, hold on a minute!! YOU think it is/was out of touch, but you quoted from it, so you have an obligation to post it in it's entirety so that people who haven't heard it/read it can form their own opinion on what Mrs Thatcher said that day.

And then to try and deflect it with some spurious quip about SureStart without any backing up with facts or figures... well, really, call yourself a debater? tsk.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

interesting "twist" to this part of the story...

all the people who were part of the "uk uncut" group were originally all charged with criminal damage and aggravated trespass.... all 145 of them...

however.... they have dropped every single charge of "criminal damage"...

so we know there demonstration was peaceful...

makes ya wonder....

the other interesting thing is that it may have been the police who told the protesters to "stay inside"... and the guardian reckon they have video tape backing up this side of the story...

if this is true.... there is no way they can make the cases stick, teresa may is going to be in serious hot water for comments that she has made against the group... and the police are going to have accusations of "political policing" made against them....

anyway... here are the articles in question...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/30/uk-uncut-arrests-protests

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-protest-uk-uncut-fortnum?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

and last of all... the video....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/mar/28/fortnum-mason-protesters-uk-uncut-video?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

" (Maggies mantra was after all "there is no such thing as society")

It's a very simple feat to take a snippet one-liner from someone else's oratory and make it look like something completely different.

Why didn't you post the entire speech she made that day?

Because it was out of touch then and its even more out of touch now ,re the figures the police said 400-500k the tory press Daily mail said 500k

no massaging of figures there,unlike the Tory claims re the sure start budget lol

And then to try and deflect it with some spurious quip about SureStart without any backing up with facts or figures... well, really, call yourself a debater? tsk.

wishy it was one of the biggest mistakes she ever made,even her own party distanced themselves from her,and that speech and attitude is what set the inner cities alight all over the country. Now if you want to still debate the figures on the march or even the surestart budget as they were today in pmq's go for it,i say they have cut the funding tried to hide it and failed

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"£15 000 worth of damage was caused at posh grocer Fortnum and Mason in Piccadilly today

someone knocked over a jar of olives

interesting "twist" to this part of the story...

all the people who were part of the "uk uncut" group were originally all charged with criminal damage and aggravated trespass.... all 145 of them...

however.... they have dropped every single charge of "criminal damage"...

so we know there demonstration was peaceful...

makes ya wonder....

the other interesting thing is that it may have been the police who told the protesters to "stay inside"... and the guardian reckon they have video tape backing up this side of the story...

anyway... here are the articles in question...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/30/uk-uncut-arrests-protests

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-protest-uk-uncut-fortnum?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

and last of all... the video....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/mar/28/fortnum-mason-protesters-uk-uncut-video?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

hmmm interesting stuff .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yours,

A Now Lifelong Tory.

Until that is their policies in the future affect you....then we'll see if you are lifelong after all....

As an adult I've lived under a long Tory govt and now a long Labour one.

I will never vote Labour again. Fact.

.................... "

Until you think your pocket will benefit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ................

And then to try and deflect it with some spurious quip about SureStart without any backing up with facts or figures... well, really, call yourself a debater? tsk.

This isn't debate. This is a discussion interspersed with a few insults from contributors who'd be struck dumb without the assistance of Google.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This isn't debate. This is a discussion interspersed with a few insults from contributors who'd be struck dumb without the assistance of Google."

A few veiled insults too.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I can see Admin banning political threads if they always end up with abuse.

Seeing as though it can't stay civil....thread closed.

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