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Transgender Discrimination?

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By *adyboy-Daddy OP   Couple
over a year ago

Andover

Was out at the weekend in Salisbury at a friends birthday night out and called into a local pub in a chain of what I assume is the largest chain of pubs in the UK. (You know the one, there's one each end of every high street)

So amongst the group is myself, my OH Erika and our friend Adriana.

Erika and Adriana are transgender, both live full time as women and don't give a moments thought to their gender on a day to day basis.

They use women's toilets and changing rooms and are treated as women in every aspect of their lives and this is possibly because 99% of people have no idea they are not so perhaps this has sheltered us a little.

Unfortunately, one of the people we were out with (female work mate of a friend) was a bit fascinated by them and as soon as we walked in went out of her way to point the girls out to everyone she spoke to and tell them their "secret".

Fair enough, it's a rural(ish) town, some people don't get out much and a few wanted pics and to say hello. All cool.

And then the girls go to the loo.

They come out to find a member of the security team waiting who asks them to leave as they have had a complaint about men in the ladies toilet.

I intervene and ask what he suggests they should do, use the gents perhaps?

He says obviously not as they look like women.

I ask for his suggestions and he says they can go and use the public toilet in the middle of town.

By now several security guys have arrived and I ask for the manager.

She turns up and has no idea what to do never dealt with it before, has no knowledge of how to deal with this issue other than to ban us from the pub.

By now people are taking photos and so the manger changed tack completely and says we can use the loos and asks the security to find the people that complained and throw them out for being transphobic!

I suggest we will simply take our business elsewhere as I can see that there is no intention to insult but a clear lack of understanding so no hard feelings, we will just be on our way.

As we exit we are met by customers from the bar next door (called The Truth) who have heard from a customer that has just walked in what is going on.

We are invited into the bar where the manger tells us we will be more than welcome and can use whatever facilities we deem relevant then refuses to take any money from us for our first round (of 15 people).

Treated like royalty (Queens mainly) and had a great night.

I know the yanks have their knickers in a twist but this subject at the mo but had no idea such issues were alive and thriving in middle England and was quite surprised really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wouldn't think it would happen over here, I thought the Americans were just being over-dramatic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was out at the weekend in Salisbury at a friends birthday night out and called into a local pub in a chain of what I assume is the largest chain of pubs in the UK. (You know the one, there's one each end of every high street)

So amongst the group is myself, my OH Erika and our friend Adriana.

Erika and Adriana are transgender, both live full time as women and don't give a moments thought to their gender on a day to day basis.

They use women's toilets and changing rooms and are treated as women in every aspect of their lives and this is possibly because 99% of people have no idea they are not so perhaps this has sheltered us a little.

Unfortunately, one of the people we were out with (female work mate of a friend) was a bit fascinated by them and as soon as we walked in went out of her way to point the girls out to everyone she spoke to and tell them their "secret".

Fair enough, it's a rural(ish) town, some people don't get out much and a few wanted pics and to say hello. All cool.

And then the girls go to the loo.

They come out to find a member of the security team waiting who asks them to leave as they have had a complaint about men in the ladies toilet.

I intervene and ask what he suggests they should do, use the gents perhaps?

He says obviously not as they look like women.

I ask for his suggestions and he says they can go and use the public toilet in the middle of town.

By now several security guys have arrived and I ask for the manager.

She turns up and has no idea what to do never dealt with it before, has no knowledge of how to deal with this issue other than to ban us from the pub.

By now people are taking photos and so the manger changed tack completely and says we can use the loos and asks the security to find the people that complained and throw them out for being transphobic!

I suggest we will simply take our business elsewhere as I can see that there is no intention to insult but a clear lack of understanding so no hard feelings, we will just be on our way.

As we exit we are met by customers from the bar next door (called The Truth) who have heard from a customer that has just walked in what is going on.

We are invited into the bar where the manger tells us we will be more than welcome and can use whatever facilities we deem relevant then refuses to take any money from us for our first round (of 15 people).

Treated like royalty (Queens mainly) and had a great night.

I know the yanks have their knickers in a twist but this subject at the mo but had no idea such issues were alive and thriving in middle England and was quite surprised really. "

Shame the 2nd bar is so far away from you, sounds like it would make a great local.

Glad the evening ended well for you all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope u have complained to the head office of the chain.... behaviour like that cannot be tolerated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't see the problem really

Women's loo's are not like men's women pee and poo behind closed doors

What was they afraid of being seen re applying their lippy

Some people just look for to moan about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm very surprised to hear that OP. I'd have expected policies to be in place given the size of the company involved.

Regardless tact was lacking evidently.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

I don't think there would have been any trouble if it weren't for the trouble maker stirring it.

There will always be trouble makers.

I'm glad you found another bar to go that embraced you.

In a way I don't think many people know how to deal with these sorts of 'situations' (for want of a better word) and so they go a bit overboard.

The important thing to remember is that it's their problem, not yours.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'm shocked and never had a problem with the lady's loo.

It is illegal for a pub or business to stop someone using facilities of the gender that they self-identify as. As is discrimination against people with what are termed protected characteristics. And rightly so.

The general manager must know basic anti-discrimination law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unisex bathrooms, problem solved.

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton

one night we went in a bar in blackpool, i left with 2 real girls, came back 30 mins later, 3 tvs plus 2 girls was refused and it was mardi gras, one of the girls was having a heated arguement with a doorman i stood and chatted to the other, and said i will take it up with licensing, i wrote a letter at breakfast got all 5 signatures and phone numbers, sent it to licensing, also letter to SIA , also at mardi gras stalls was diversity and race people complained to them. result doorman sent on a diversity course, licensing meeting they will have 5 complaints, when the drinks license is renewed, i did the same with a swingers club as well in manchester

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's awful OP. Good on the 2nd pub though.

Crappy stupid woman for blabbing her mouth off!!

Unfortunately I'm not surprised this happened. I live in a place like that. It's fucking shit. x

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

Op in sorry you and yours have been treated so badly.. I hope you have complained to the head office.

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By *albec26Man
over a year ago

Great Yarmouth

Sorry to hear what happened, we were both shocked at that in this day and age people could act in such a way, absolutely disgusted x

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I am truly shocked.

I hope someone had serious words with the gossip who started it?

I will now need to google who has one on every high street and boycott them. If I ever did go there.

This is worth taking to the press sadly.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Google isn't helping me

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton

i complaint off 1 woman, it not like you dressed male, women in busy night clubs use the gents if female has a big queue, and i bet the one complaining wasnt a regular probably just passing trade,myself and a few tvs friends had a similar complaint in ma kellies, it was ignored, a member of staff told me, as long as we are dressed female its ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It probably would never have occurred to them to complain about such a thing until they saw the news about the issue over in the States and some loudmouth told them they should be offended.

Bloody sheeple (grrrr)

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By *adyboy-Daddy OP   Couple
over a year ago

Andover

Thanks for the supportive conments folks.

I was genuinely to find it even being an issue but I guess you love and learn.

I was comfortable enough not making any more of it at the time as it did seem like a case of those involved simply not knowing how to deal with the issue rather than anything else but as mentioned above, it's surprising what a solo seeker young and liberal group of people can be offended by.

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By *allipygousMan
over a year ago

Leicester


"Google isn't helping me "

I'm surmising it's a Wetherspoons

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By *atricklim89Man
over a year ago

Limerick

Hope you complained the pub! In this day and age it is wrong!

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By *r.BlondeMan
over a year ago

Chester/Wirral

The customer is always right at the end of the day. Sounds like a lack of experience and confusion. Bad word of mouth travels faster than good aswell, they should be aware of possible situations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm shocked and never had a problem with the lady's loo.

It is illegal for a pub or business to stop someone using facilities of the gender that they self-identify as. As is discrimination against people with what are termed protected characteristics. And rightly so.

The general manager must know basic anti-discrimination law. "
.

I frequent canal Street in Manchester quite a bit, I'm from there and i like the atmosphere, however I've often been told I can't buy a drink because this club only serves gay people, in fact they have a sign in the window that says.... WE ONLY SERVE GAY PEOPLE.

Of course being slightly worse for wear I rolled straight in...a pint of your finest ale barman... Are you gay sir....mmmmm well I'm rather happy... no sir, do you fuck men.... Not as a rule but I'm open to offers.... Look are you gay or not.... Well I'm not being outed for a pint of doom bar...... Long story short, I went next door where some very gay people excepted me and my£3.40 for a pint.

Life is such a dilemma at times

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By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

Awful that this is happened and happening

Please report it. Alas statistics are required for things to change.

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton


"I'm shocked and never had a problem with the lady's loo.

It is illegal for a pub or business to stop someone using facilities of the gender that they self-identify as. As is discrimination against people with what are termed protected characteristics. And rightly so.

The general manager must know basic anti-discrimination law. .

I frequent canal Street in Manchester quite a bit, I'm from there and i like the atmosphere, however I've often been told I can't buy a drink because this club only serves gay people, in fact they have a sign in the window that says.... WE ONLY SERVE GAY PEOPLE.

Of course being slightly worse for wear I rolled straight in...a pint of your finest ale barman... Are you gay sir....mmmmm well I'm rather happy... no sir, do you fuck men.... Not as a rule but I'm open to offers.... Look are you gay or not.... Well I'm not being outed for a pint of doom bar...... Long story short, I went next door where some very gay people excepted me and my£3.40 for a pint.

Life is such a dilemma at times"
well there are gay venues in anal st area that have men only, so if you wear a dress your classed as female so therefore not allowed, as you state bar next door will take your money, and my view of gay village is its dying on its arse, nowhere as busy as it was, so you think they would want customers, and cant afford to be as choosy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is awful and I'm really shocked this happened in the UK...

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

A pub in Halifax was found guilty of discrimination just over a year ago.

It refused the use of their women's loo by a trans woman and barred her, after someone complained.

It is illegal to discriminate in the supply of goods and services here.

The manager of this currently discussed pub would definitely know the law about discrimination and was acting in a hateful, stupid and illegal

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Manner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The customer is always right at the end of the day. Sounds like a lack of experience and confusion. Bad word of mouth travels faster than good aswell, they should be aware of possible situations."

Depending on the area, the locals might think the pub did the right thing though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm shocked and never had a problem with the lady's loo.

It is illegal for a pub or business to stop someone using facilities of the gender that they self-identify as. As is discrimination against people with what are termed protected characteristics. And rightly so.

The general manager must know basic anti-discrimination law. .

I frequent canal Street in Manchester quite a bit, I'm from there and i like the atmosphere, however I've often been told I can't buy a drink because this club only serves gay people, in fact they have a sign in the window that says.... WE ONLY SERVE GAY PEOPLE.

Of course being slightly worse for wear I rolled straight in...a pint of your finest ale barman... Are you gay sir....mmmmm well I'm rather happy... no sir, do you fuck men.... Not as a rule but I'm open to offers.... Look are you gay or not.... Well I'm not being outed for a pint of doom bar...... Long story short, I went next door where some very gay people excepted me and my£3.40 for a pint.

Life is such a dilemma at times"

I wonder how long a pub or premises would be allowed to have a sign up saying 'We only serve straight people'?

Discriminating on discrimination is not equality.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Always thought Salisbury was a backwater. Another piece of evidence to back that claim. If it's any consolation, Salisbury is such a small city where everyone seems to know everyone...and people think the forum is cliquey!! Glad the other bar didn't have the same attitude op

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I went shooting at my local indoor air rifle range last weekend,there were men,women,children and trans person.Everyone was happily shooting together and having a good laugh.By the way,only one toilet for everyone to use.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


"I'm very surprised to hear that OP. I'd have expected policies to be in place given the size of the company involved.

Regardless tact was lacking evidently. "

Policies will be in place, but have they been read by all the staff.

Does everyone know their company policy, I know I don't.

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS
over a year ago

stockport

Don't blame you for walking out.The security staff need educating.

Maria

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you look like women and aren't openly telling people that you're not then there shouldn't be an issue. But if you're revealing to people that you're not a female then expecting females to be comfortable with men in their toilet then that's crazy. You could simply tell anyone that you ARE women. What are they going to do, make you prove it? Unless you clearly look like men then I can't see how our why there would be an issue unless you're trying to make women accept men in their toilets. The real issue was your friend's friend.

The security guard sounds like a right cunt too because if he actually thought you were men then why would he have a problem with you using the men's toilets and if he thought you looked like women then why would he stop you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do they still have penises?

If so, they should be using the gents. Simple as that really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/07/17 15:35:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do they still have penises?

If so, they should be using the gents. Simple as that really "

Oh yes, forcing someone into a situation where they may feel uncomfortable is the best idea. I'm sure you'd be so charming to a translady who came into the gents.

What about pre-op FtM?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do they still have penises?

If so, they should be using the gents. Simple as that really

Oh yes, forcing someone into a situation where they may feel uncomfortable is the best idea. I'm sure you'd be so charming to a translady who came into the gents.

What about pre-op FtM?"

What about the women who may feel uncomfortable knowing that they are alone in the toilets with a stranger with a 9 inch cock?

And actually, I've had the wonderful experience of sharing a public bathroom with a tv and I said nothing, most don't, because we accept that this is the world we now live in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do they still have penises?

If so, they should be using the gents. Simple as that really

Oh yes, forcing someone into a situation where they may feel uncomfortable is the best idea. I'm sure you'd be so charming to a translady who came into the gents.

What about pre-op FtM?

What about the women who may feel uncomfortable knowing that they are alone in the toilets with a stranger with a 9 inch cock?

And actually, I've had the wonderful experience of sharing a public bathroom with a tv and I said nothing, most don't, because we accept that this is the world we now live in."

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't blame you for walking out.The security staff need educating.

Maria"

Why resurrect this? After yesterday's dedatical

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Here's a different viewpoint.

I know a lovely trans lady but because she had cancer earlier in life, she can't get the gender reassignment surgery and then take the hormones.

Not all trans women have undergone surgery but still identify as women. Please don't judge as we all want to be treated with dignity and respect regardless of gender or the gender we identify with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played. "

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?"

A woman who is stronger than me could easily overpower me ? What's the difference . If someone identifies as a woman then they should use the woman's toilet . I go to the toilet to have a wee not look or wonder about other people's genitals

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

C'mon you lot ..... what about the lesbians ?

Eh ????

Using my toilet and wanting me ......... bloody sex fiends.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Why do some people equate gender variations with sexual deviance ?

Pure ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"C'mon you lot ..... what about the lesbians ?

Eh ????

Using my toilet and wanting me ......... bloody sex fiends.

"

Trust you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh i heard of this on the grapevine on base we all had a good laugh at it.

But it was ages ago so why drag it up now bit pointless and odd.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oh i heard of this on the grapevine on base we all had a good laugh at it.

But it was ages ago so why drag it up now bit pointless and odd.?"

Had a good laugh at what ?

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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago

Hillside desolate


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?"

The changing rooms in most swimming pools are unisex these days. Guys with dicks out in the cubicles right next to me all the time and I feel perfectly safe. I don't see how toilets pose any more of a danger.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?"

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else."

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oh i heard of this on the grapevine on base we all had a good laugh at it.

But it was ages ago so why drag it up now bit pointless and odd.?

Had a good laugh at what ? "

I know the doormen/workmates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?"

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you know what someones bits look like then you are the pervert. I see no issue with sharing a bathroom with trans pre-op or post-op

~Mia

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By *SAchickWoman
over a year ago

Hillside desolate


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ? "

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds "

Because it's actually quite a common place for sexual assaults to happen, against any gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds "

They aren't - but it gives the ignorant an excuse for their backwards ways of thinking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most women around here piss in the streets/alleyways on weekend night so maybe that's the solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds

They aren't - but it gives the ignorant an excuse for their backwards ways of thinking "

My comment was based on universal genders. Not one specific gender. When i had my first child there was an incident in a Supermarket toilet that in involved a child and an adult. A public warning was issued because these kind of assaults occur more often than you would think.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"Was out at the weekend in Salisbury at a friends birthday night out and called into a local pub in a chain of what I assume is the largest chain of pubs in the UK. (You know the one, there's one each end of every high street)

So amongst the group is myself, my OH Erika and our friend Adriana.

Erika and Adriana are transgender, both live full time as women and don't give a moments thought to their gender on a day to day basis.

They use women's toilets and changing rooms and are treated as women in every aspect of their lives and this is possibly because 99% of people have no idea they are not so perhaps this has sheltered us a little.

Unfortunately, one of the people we were out with (female work mate of a friend) was a bit fascinated by them and as soon as we walked in went out of her way to point the girls out to everyone she spoke to and tell them their "secret".

Fair enough, it's a rural(ish) town, some people don't get out much and a few wanted pics and to say hello. All cool.

And then the girls go to the loo.

They come out to find a member of the security team waiting who asks them to leave as they have had a complaint about men in the ladies toilet.

I intervene and ask what he suggests they should do, use the gents perhaps?

He says obviously not as they look like women.

I ask for his suggestions and he says they can go and use the public toilet in the middle of town.

By now several security guys have arrived and I ask for the manager.

She turns up and has no idea what to do never dealt with it before, has no knowledge of how to deal with this issue other than to ban us from the pub.

By now people are taking photos and so the manger changed tack completely and says we can use the loos and asks the security to find the people that complained and throw them out for being transphobic!

I suggest we will simply take our business elsewhere as I can see that there is no intention to insult but a clear lack of understanding so no hard feelings, we will just be on our way.

As we exit we are met by customers from the bar next door (called The Truth) who have heard from a customer that has just walked in what is going on.

We are invited into the bar where the manger tells us we will be more than welcome and can use whatever facilities we deem relevant then refuses to take any money from us for our first round (of 15 people).

Treated like royalty (Queens mainly) and had a great night.

I know the yanks have their knickers in a twist but this subject at the mo but had no idea such issues were alive and thriving in middle England and was quite surprised really. "
I always use the ladies when I go out .I have never had a problem with anyone no matter where I go, be it pub ,club,restaurant,shopping centre ,or public toilet . Why should there be a problem in this day and age especially with all this Neutral gender lark going on .they havnt built this,that and the other toilets yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds

They aren't - but it gives the ignorant an excuse for their backwards ways of thinking

My comment was based on universal genders. Not one specific gender. When i had my first child there was an incident in a Supermarket toilet that in involved a child and an adult. A public warning was issued because these kind of assaults occur more often than you would think.

"

I wasn't referring to your comment but the guy earlier up the thread . Yes exhale assaults occur in toilets . My point is they aren't going to increase because you let m to f or f to m use the toilet they wish to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Why are you so concerned about how comfortable women would be? I wouldn't care nor feel threatened... and I don't really care what in a person's pants, as long as they're comfortable and happy with the ability to express themselves how they wish. I don't have a tendency to lean over cubicle walls in public toilets to see what genitals someone has, as people don't tend to wave their genitals around in public toilets.

Though I appreciate the irony. Well played.

But you don't speak for all women, do you?

The fact is, whether "living as a woman" or not, a TV could easily physically overpower a woman and has a penis with which to sexually assault her, thus rendering the exact same threat to a woman in a public toilet as a man who identifies as a man would.

Am I saying it's a likely scenario? No, but it would certainly cause a lot of women to feel uncomfortable.

What about if a genuine sex offender recognises this loophole and dresses up as a woman and goes in to a women's toilet, knowing that nobody will stop him? You don't see that as a problem?

At the same time, what about a pre-op FtM who chooses to use the gents? There's lots of gents in there who could easily over power him, as they have penises and the FtM does not, and if the FtM is quite short and at the start of the transition they might still have quite a feminine body shape.

If a transwoman uses the gents, a man could sexually assault her or worse.

Also, a cis woman could sexually another woman, a cis man can sexually assault another man or transwoman, pre op or post op.

I do see that as a problem, yes. But anyone can sexually assault anyone else.

A pre-op FtM would be better off in the women's for the inverse reason a TV should be in the men's. I couldn't see one being sexually assaulted like a woman would be by a rapist dressed as a woman, because he knows it will grant him entry in the ladies' loos, but they may very well get beaten up.

I know you're coming from a good place, but you haven't addressed the problem of this enabling a rapist to pose as a woman and gain entry in to the women's toilets of a bar/pub.

Why not just have a third bathroom for 'trans' or 'other'?

You do know most toilets aren't monitored and therefore an attacker could hide in a toilets of any sex and attack whoever came in ?

exactly. I've used the gents on more than one occasion. An attacker could be anywhere, why are they all hanging around toilets in some people's minds

They aren't - but it gives the ignorant an excuse for their backwards ways of thinking

My comment was based on universal genders. Not one specific gender. When i had my first child there was an incident in a Supermarket toilet that in involved a child and an adult. A public warning was issued because these kind of assaults occur more often than you would think.

I wasn't referring to your comment but the guy earlier up the thread . Yes exhale assaults occur in toilets . My point is they aren't going to increase because you let m to f or f to m use the toilet they wish to "

Ah ok, gotcha. I thought i'd offended and that wasn't my intention

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

You would think the staff of a big chain would have better instructions and guidelines.

This is a difficult debate, one which I have followed on some vanilla forums with interest. As far as I can see it's one where you can never please everyone. Someone suggested a trans/non binary toilet. I would imagine (especially amongst trans people) that a special toilet would be very insulting. Trans people are just like the rest of us, what to live their life a normal and fuss free as possible. Likewise I have a non binary friend who successfully got a trans/other toilets put into place of work after some campaining. They did not feel right in either toilet. Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues. But then to what extent in a society should the majority make changes and adjustments for a small few? I think a common sense approch would be for everyone to just chill out and not shit a brick over who uses what toilet. I mean where's the big bother, do women really think there are crazy cross dressing rapists everywhere? It's irrational. Chances are what ever toilet a trans person uses its because they need to carry out their bodily function in the toilet they identify with, not because they have evil intentions.

I am sorry your friends had all this bother. It would be nice to live in a world where people can be who they are without hassle, fuss or embaserment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues.

"

Smashing idea. 14 y/o girls sharing toilets with 65 y/o men. What a progressive utopia that would be.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


" Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues.

Smashing idea. 14 y/o girls sharing toilets with 65 y/o men. What a progressive utopia that would be."

Do you know - you come across ageist, sexist, racist and knobist ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues.

Smashing idea. 14 y/o girls sharing toilets with 65 y/o men. What a progressive utopia that would be."

You do realise that many people of all sexualities , genders and ages live around each other every day without sexual assaults happening .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You would think the staff of a big chain would have better instructions and guidelines.

This is a difficult debate, one which I have followed on some vanilla forums with interest. As far as I can see it's one where you can never please everyone. Someone suggested a trans/non binary toilet. I would imagine (especially amongst trans people) that a special toilet would be very insulting. Trans people are just like the rest of us, what to live their life a normal and fuss free as possible. Likewise I have a non binary friend who successfully got a trans/other toilets put into place of work after some campaining. They did not feel right in either toilet. Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues. But then to what extent in a society should the majority make changes and adjustments for a small few? I think a common sense approch would be for everyone to just chill out and not shit a brick over who uses what toilet. I mean where's the big bother, do women really think there are crazy cross dressing rapists everywhere? It's irrational. Chances are what ever toilet a trans person uses its because they need to carry out their bodily function in the toilet they identify with, not because they have evil intentions.

I am sorry your friends had all this bother. It would be nice to live in a world where people can be who they are without hassle, fuss or embaserment.

"

I except this 100% everyone has the right to live as they wish but like you say a majority make adjustments for the few.

There are 300,000 transgender people living in the UK a small minority and at some point in the real world not online world they need to understand the vast majority of the population millions will not be at ease having to share a toilet with what they see as someone who is not their gender.

It's a minefield tbh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/07/17 17:08:46]

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

In belguim sometimes you have to walk past the guys pissing in thd urinal to get to the toilet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a great story!, totally didn't expect that ending.

Wishing you all the best and yipee for open mindedness a compassionate people xx

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Okay I have it!

A toilet for heterosexual men at one end.A toilet for 100% gay men next to it cos those two wont be messing with each other. Next to the gay blokes we have the lesbians. Next to the lesbians we have heterosexual women. Next to them we have men becoming women. Then women becoming men but we have to keep a beady on them cos we don't know what stage they are at and how much peeping under doors they will still be wanting. Maybe we could stick on a high fence at the top..... then next to them we have older people who have long give up wanting sex anyway and can't be arsed to look. Then maybe a cubicle for those wracked with indecision and finally a girls toilet and a boys toilet plus a wide disabled toilet for those who have banged their head against the wall reading some of the posts in this thread. And one for me cos I don't care what gender you are your shit still stinks.

Cheers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You would think the staff of a big chain would have better instructions and guidelines.

This is a difficult debate, one which I have followed on some vanilla forums with interest. As far as I can see it's one where you can never please everyone. Someone suggested a trans/non binary toilet. I would imagine (especially amongst trans people) that a special toilet would be very insulting. Trans people are just like the rest of us, what to live their life a normal and fuss free as possible. Likewise I have a non binary friend who successfully got a trans/other toilets put into place of work after some campaining. They did not feel right in either toilet. Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues. But then to what extent in a society should the majority make changes and adjustments for a small few? I think a common sense approch would be for everyone to just chill out and not shit a brick over who uses what toilet. I mean where's the big bother, do women really think there are crazy cross dressing rapists everywhere? It's irrational. Chances are what ever toilet a trans person uses its because they need to carry out their bodily function in the toilet they identify with, not because they have evil intentions.

I am sorry your friends had all this bother. It would be nice to live in a world where people can be who they are without hassle, fuss or embaserment.

I except this 100% everyone has the right to live as they wish but like you say a majority make adjustments for the few.

There are 300,000 transgender people living in the UK a small minority and at some point in the real world not online world they need to understand the vast majority of the population millions will not be at ease having to share a toilet with what they see as someone who is not their gender.

It's a minefield tbh.

"

The vast majority will not be at ease - what do you base that on?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"In belguim sometimes you have to walk past the guys pissing in thd urinal to get to the toilet"

Not just Belgium. I've used shared toilets over here and other European countries.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Okay I have it!

A toilet for heterosexual men at one end.A toilet for 100% gay men next to it cos those two wont be messing with each other. Next to the gay blokes we have the lesbians. Next to the lesbians we have heterosexual women. Next to them we have men becoming women. Then women becoming men but we have to keep a beady on them cos we don't know what stage they are at and how much peeping under doors they will still be wanting. Maybe we could stick on a high fence at the top..... then next to them we have older people who have long give up wanting sex anyway and can't be arsed to look. Then maybe a cubicle for those wracked with indecision and finally a girls toilet and a boys toilet plus a wide disabled toilet for those who have banged their head against the wall reading some of the posts in this thread. And one for me cos I don't care what gender you are your shit still stinks.

Cheers. "

Sorry, Granny, but where are the baby changing facilities?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Okay I have it!

A toilet for heterosexual men at one end.A toilet for 100% gay men next to it cos those two wont be messing with each other. Next to the gay blokes we have the lesbians. Next to the lesbians we have heterosexual women. Next to them we have men becoming women. Then women becoming men but we have to keep a beady on them cos we don't know what stage they are at and how much peeping under doors they will still be wanting. Maybe we could stick on a high fence at the top..... then next to them we have older people who have long give up wanting sex anyway and can't be arsed to look. Then maybe a cubicle for those wracked with indecision and finally a girls toilet and a boys toilet plus a wide disabled toilet for those who have banged their head against the wall reading some of the posts in this thread. And one for me cos I don't care what gender you are your shit still stinks.

Cheers.

Sorry, Granny, but where are the baby changing facilities?"

Damn you bloody P.C. people........

Okay. A baby cubicle for a boy being changed by his mum and one for a boy being changed by his dad and one for a girl b......... etc.......... and all the titty fah lah versions that go with breastfeeding.....

And a pet bog.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

...

The changing rooms in most swimming pools are unisex these days. Guys with dicks out in the cubicles right next to me all the time and I feel perfectly safe. I don't see how toilets pose any more of a danger."

This!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor


"In belguim sometimes you have to walk past the guys pissing in thd urinal to get to the toilet"

My girl's would have to cross their leg's they wouldn't use it I don't think. I don't like that idea.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You would think the staff of a big chain would have better instructions and guidelines.

This is a difficult debate, one which I have followed on some vanilla forums with interest. As far as I can see it's one where you can never please everyone. Someone suggested a trans/non binary toilet. I would imagine (especially amongst trans people) that a special toilet would be very insulting. Trans people are just like the rest of us, what to live their life a normal and fuss free as possible. Likewise I have a non binary friend who successfully got a trans/other toilets put into place of work after some campaining. They did not feel right in either toilet. Maybe we should get rid of gendered toilets completely? It would definitely bring equality in both toilet standards and toilet queues. But then to what extent in a society should the majority make changes and adjustments for a small few? I think a common sense approch would be for everyone to just chill out and not shit a brick over who uses what toilet. I mean where's the big bother, do women really think there are crazy cross dressing rapists everywhere? It's irrational. Chances are what ever toilet a trans person uses its because they need to carry out their bodily function in the toilet they identify with, not because they have evil intentions.

I am sorry your friends had all this bother. It would be nice to live in a world where people can be who they are without hassle, fuss or embaserment.

I except this 100% everyone has the right to live as they wish but like you say a majority make adjustments for the few.

There are 300,000 transgender people living in the UK a small minority and at some point in the real world not online world they need to understand the vast majority of the population millions will not be at ease having to share a toilet with what they see as someone who is not their gender.

It's a minefield tbh.

The vast majority will not be at ease - what do you base that on?"

Everyone who i have spoken to on this subject about trans people sharing toilets, family. work, friends, pub conversations ect.

The real world not the PC women of fab world.

Should the majority's voice be ignored for the few do you think that's right.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

"

If you were a parent, I think you'd think differently.

If I had a daughter that was too old to be accompanied by me, but still a vunerable child (I.e 10-15) I wouldn't be comfortable of her going in to a public toilet that had men with their knobs out inside.

In the real world, that would be a completely normal concern. On fab, it's "backwards" and "prejudiced".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

If you were a parent, I think you'd think differently.

If I had a daughter that was too old to be accompanied by me, but still a vunerable child (I.e 10-15) I wouldn't be comfortable of her going in to a public toilet that had men with their knobs out inside.

In the real world, that would be a completely normal concern. On fab, it's "backwards" and "prejudiced". "

I don't know if you missed what I said...these were portaloo's...one door one person!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was out at the weekend in Salisbury at a friends birthday night out and called into a local pub in a chain of what I assume is the largest chain of pubs in the UK. (You know the one, there's one each end of every high street)

So amongst the group is myself, my OH Erika and our friend Adriana.

Erika and Adriana are transgender, both live full time as women and don't give a moments thought to their gender on a day to day basis.

They use women's toilets and changing rooms and are treated as women in every aspect of their lives and this is possibly because 99% of people have no idea they are not so perhaps this has sheltered us a little.

Unfortunately, one of the people we were out with (female work mate of a friend) was a bit fascinated by them and as soon as we walked in went out of her way to point the girls out to everyone she spoke to and tell them their "secret".

Fair enough, it's a rural(ish) town, some people don't get out much and a few wanted pics and to say hello. All cool.

And then the girls go to the loo.

They come out to find a member of the security team waiting who asks them to leave as they have had a complaint about men in the ladies toilet.

I intervene and ask what he suggests they should do, use the gents perhaps?

He says obviously not as they look like women.

I ask for his suggestions and he says they can go and use the public toilet in the middle of town.

By now several security guys have arrived and I ask for the manager.

She turns up and has no idea what to do never dealt with it before, has no knowledge of how to deal with this issue other than to ban us from the pub.

By now people are taking photos and so the manger changed tack completely and says we can use the loos and asks the security to find the people that complained and throw them out for being transphobic!

I suggest we will simply take our business elsewhere as I can see that there is no intention to insult but a clear lack of understanding so no hard feelings, we will just be on our way.

As we exit we are met by customers from the bar next door (called The Truth) who have heard from a customer that has just walked in what is going on.

We are invited into the bar where the manger tells us we will be more than welcome and can use whatever facilities we deem relevant then refuses to take any money from us for our first round (of 15 people).

Treated like royalty (Queens mainly) and had a great night.

I know the yanks have their knickers in a twist but this subject at the mo but had no idea such issues were alive and thriving in middle England and was quite surprised really. "

This grinds me right up if someone wants to be a lady then let them and treat them that way if someone wants tone a man then again let them I bet no one would bat an eye lid I a born girl that wants to be a man uses the males room its the 21st century same sex can get married people can change genders men like wearing women's clothing and females like to wear men's clothing people need to get their heads out of their arses and get over it the stuck up twats there is more going on in the world than people changing sexualities or how ever you want to put it and if they cant see that then they are living a shit life all they can complain about is a transgender women using a women's toilet for fuck sake its not like she is going to be peaking over the cubicle jerking off she became a women for a reason most likely because she like cock sorry if that offends anyone xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was out at the weekend in Salisbury at a friends birthday night out and called into a local pub in a chain of what I assume is the largest chain of pubs in the UK. (You know the one, there's one each end of every high street)

So amongst the group is myself, my OH Erika and our friend Adriana.

Erika and Adriana are transgender, both live full time as women and don't give a moments thought to their gender on a day to day basis.

They use women's toilets and changing rooms and are treated as women in every aspect of their lives and this is possibly because 99% of people have no idea they are not so perhaps this has sheltered us a little.

Unfortunately, one of the people we were out with (female work mate of a friend) was a bit fascinated by them and as soon as we walked in went out of her way to point the girls out to everyone she spoke to and tell them their "secret".

Fair enough, it's a rural(ish) town, some people don't get out much and a few wanted pics and to say hello. All cool.

And then the girls go to the loo.

They come out to find a member of the security team waiting who asks them to leave as they have had a complaint about men in the ladies toilet.

I intervene and ask what he suggests they should do, use the gents perhaps?

He says obviously not as they look like women.

I ask for his suggestions and he says they can go and use the public toilet in the middle of town.

By now several security guys have arrived and I ask for the manager.

She turns up and has no idea what to do never dealt with it before, has no knowledge of how to deal with this issue other than to ban us from the pub.

By now people are taking photos and so the manger changed tack completely and says we can use the loos and asks the security to find the people that complained and throw them out for being transphobic!

I suggest we will simply take our business elsewhere as I can see that there is no intention to insult but a clear lack of understanding so no hard feelings, we will just be on our way.

As we exit we are met by customers from the bar next door (called The Truth) who have heard from a customer that has just walked in what is going on.

We are invited into the bar where the manger tells us we will be more than welcome and can use whatever facilities we deem relevant then refuses to take any money from us for our first round (of 15 people).

Treated like royalty (Queens mainly) and had a great night.

I know the yanks have their knickers in a twist but this subject at the mo but had no idea such issues were alive and thriving in middle England and was quite surprised really.

This grinds me right up if someone wants to be a lady then let them and treat them that way if someone wants tone a man then again let them I bet no one would bat an eye lid I a born girl that wants to be a man uses the males room its the 21st century same sex can get married people can change genders men like wearing women's clothing and females like to wear men's clothing people need to get their heads out of their arses and get over it the stuck up twats there is more going on in the world than people changing sexualities or how ever you want to put it and if they cant see that then they are living a shit life all they can complain about is a transgender women using a women's toilet for fuck sake its not like she is going to be peaking over the cubicle jerking off she became a women for a reason most likely because she like cock sorry if that offends anyone xx"

Like your pink stetson.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thankyou you look hot x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thankyou you look hot x"

Haha i was asking for that i guess.

Cheers fella much appreciated but not my thing thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not a problem and did you really have to use the F bomb lol

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By *eardedSilverFoxMan
over a year ago

Colchester


"Don't see the problem really

Women's loo's are not like men's women pee and poo behind closed doors

What was they afraid of being seen re applying their lippy

Some people just look for to moan about "

WOMEN POO???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not a problem and did you really have to use the F bomb lol"

Stop it you're make me blush. lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not a problem and did you really have to use the F bomb lol

Stop it you're make me blush. lol"

Bet I could make you do more Than blush haha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not a problem and did you really have to use the F bomb lol

Stop it you're make me blush. lol

Bet I could make you do more Than blush haha"

Haha easy mate people start talking.

Have a nice evening anyway bud.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/07/17 18:40:09]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

If you were a parent, I think you'd think differently.

If I had a daughter that was too old to be accompanied by me, but still a vunerable child (I.e 10-15) I wouldn't be comfortable of her going in to a public toilet that had men with their knobs out inside.

In the real world, that would be a completely normal concern. On fab, it's "backwards" and "prejudiced". "

If you were a parent of a boy,would you feel comfortable letting him go into a public gents where there may be guys, possibly even catholic priests with their knobs out?

Would you be particularly concerned about your daughter going into a cubicle when you have absolutely no idea who is in the next cubicle?

Isn't it more of a concern what someone may get up to in the loo rather than who they are?

Has there ever been a case of a trans person molesting children in a public loo? Very rare if ever.

I hope this has helped you to stop worrying so much.

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

If you go to large outdoor events you'll often see the portaloos and outdoor urinals. Guys standing peeing with only a small door for modesty. You can see their lower legs and upper bodies. Not attractive and in full view of kids.

I think it's been blown out of proportion.

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By *icky_tvLondonTV/TS
over a year ago

london

When did transsexual become transgender? Good grief!

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry


"Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

If you were a parent, I think you'd think differently.

If I had a daughter that was too old to be accompanied by me, but still a vunerable child (I.e 10-15) I wouldn't be comfortable of her going in to a public toilet that had men with their knobs out inside.

In the real world, that would be a completely normal concern. On fab, it's "backwards" and "prejudiced". "

I am a parent and the more I think about it if we were to make a change to better accommodate everyone's needs then genderless toilets would be an advantage and I would argue safer. I am thinking in terms of all cubicles with shared hand wash (similar to many swimming pool changing rooms these day). Obviously open urinals would go so there would be no me with there dicks out anymore. Not only do I see this as the best way of making everyone equal, I see it making toilets safer and easier for parents. This is why:

By having no separate toilets it is more likely that there will be other people (of any gender) around in the toilets. This would make it hard for any dodgy individual to operate as you have pretty much doubled the likeliness of someone else being around. Thus you have improved safety for every one.

Also men could accompany young girls into a toilet without having to pass men with there dicks out. Basically making it mixed things could make things easier and safer for mixed gender groups such as a father and his daughter.

On another practical note it could see more efficiency. When I shop in my local Mother care they have one toilet for women and one for me. I think they are the only ones in the retail park (bar the fast food joint). There is often a queue for the ladies as the men's one stays unpopulated. In stead of having one over used ladies and one under used men's why not have just two toilets?

Just thought anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right here's my solution....I ran a car boot sale some years back and but a gents..a ladies and a disabled toilets on...first year no one used the disabled and they cost twice as much as a normal one.

Second year do away with the disabled and not one complaint...third year women and men were using each of the "normal" toilets....if the women's was in use and the gent empty the woman used the gents and visa versa....get the idea? Fourth year I cut costs and had only one! And guess what....not one complaint!

So in reality the problem should not exist....but bloody forums are not reality are they.

If you were a parent, I think you'd think differently.

If I had a daughter that was too old to be accompanied by me, but still a vunerable child (I.e 10-15) I wouldn't be comfortable of her going in to a public toilet that had men with their knobs out inside.

In the real world, that would be a completely normal concern. On fab, it's "backwards" and "prejudiced".

I am a parent and the more I think about it if we were to make a change to better accommodate everyone's needs then genderless toilets would be an advantage and I would argue safer. I am thinking in terms of all cubicles with shared hand wash (similar to many swimming pool changing rooms these day). Obviously open urinals would go so there would be no me with there dicks out anymore. Not only do I see this as the best way of making everyone equal, I see it making toilets safer and easier for parents. This is why:

By having no separate toilets it is more likely that there will be other people (of any gender) around in the toilets. This would make it hard for any dodgy individual to operate as you have pretty much doubled the likeliness of someone else being around. Thus you have improved safety for every one.

Also men could accompany young girls into a toilet without having to pass men with there dicks out. Basically making it mixed things could make things easier and safer for mixed gender groups such as a father and his daughter.

On another practical note it could see more efficiency. When I shop in my local Mother care they have one toilet for women and one for me. I think they are the only ones in the retail park (bar the fast food joint). There is often a queue for the ladies as the men's one stays unpopulated. In stead of having one over used ladies and one under used men's why not have just two toilets?

Just thought anyway"

Nice point mate.....and I forgot to tell the poster above that I'm a father of two girls

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Disgusting !!! Some very sad people in this world with nothing better to do !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love reading old threads that get bumped up, it confirms my theory that slowly over time there's a lot more twats inhabiting the forum these days

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS
over a year ago

stockport

Having been in intersex toilets in the Village in Canal Street it is a sensible to solution to the prejudices and phobias that some seem to have about trans people using a single gender facility.Heaven help us if we ever take notice of those deluded bigots in some American states.

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