FabSwingers.com forum: ben butler

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Killed his 6 year old daughter. Another social services disgrace another child lost x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

According to BBC News, social services did not want her returned to her parents but a Judge sided with the father.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Let's lay the blame where it belongs. The parents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Killed his 6 year old daughter. Another social services disgrace another child lost x"

Social services nor the Judge killed the child, the father did.

I'm sure in the inquiries that follow mistakes will be identified, but those mistakes are usually in hindsight and nobody other than the father and his partner deliberately wanted harm to come to the child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This story broke my heart. No child should have to go through what she did. Makes me hug my girl extra tight.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It was a terrible tragedy. But it's really worth reading the full details, so that we, as well as society, can learn all that we need to do, from the case.

The judge made an unusual instruction to social services etc, so that they were not allowed to refer to previous case history when dealing with issues with the poor child. So any school/issues reported from elsewhere had to be treated without the benefit of previous knowledge. You could say it's an issue with our legal system, the judge, or just that we failed the poor girl as a society. It doesn't appear to be social services.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Let's lay the blame where it belongs. The parents. "
well the person who murdered her.

Blaming others is rather missing the point.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"Let's lay the blame where it belongs. The parents. well the person who murdered her.

Blaming others is rather missing the point. "

I thought he was her parent?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"According to BBC News, social services did not want her returned to her parents but a Judge sided with the father."

this..

the fault lies with the vile piece of filth that murdered her and the similar lowlife who helped him in trying to cover it up..

some clever brief duped some duffer of a family court judge, neither of whom with the power of hindsight would have done so i reckon..

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By *rincessvenusCouple
over a year ago

Hull

he will get his justice when he gets inside

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Let's lay the blame where it belongs. The parents. well the person who murdered her.

Blaming others is rather missing the point. "

If it's the case I'm thinking of the mother helped him cover it up.

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By *ackDMissMorganCouple
over a year ago

Halifax

Heartbreaking,that poor soul rip

??.miss.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It's a horrendous case of domestic abuse leading to the death of a child and her sibling being used as part of the cover up. Jennie Gray appears to have been abused as much as the children.

The Family Court judge that exonerated Butler and returned Ellie to him and her mother following their custody battle will be feeling culpable, I'm sure: she retired early just prior to this case being heard and hasn't participated in the serious case review.

Ellie's grandfather had custody until Butler launched his Max Clifford led PR campaign and custody battle. The fact that Ellie's grandmother died just as this case started and Neal Gray (Jennie Gray's father) instructed all involved to not disclose this to Jennie Gray and to not hold up the case shows how much he wanted justice to be done. He's pressing for a case review now.

It's tragic but this is not a case where people should be blaming social services. As others have said, blame the parents and specifically Butler.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's lay the blame where it belongs. The parents. well the person who murdered her.

Blaming others is rather missing the point.

If it's the case I'm thinking of the mother helped him cover it up."

This, the news is already starting to try and portray her as some sort of victim. No, she's not, she's a freak of nature who attempted to help her husband cover up the murder of her child.

That is not a mother, and not a victim.

Personally, in terms of official failings in this case it's difficult to lay blame anywhere but with the judge.

We can't know if the decision to return the child was right or wrong on the facts presented to the court. Obviously retrospect tells us it's wrong but we can't blame the judge for not being psychic.

What we can blame her for is the decision to fully exonerate him, and to effectively seal their records so that the allegations could not be referred to in future investigation. It tied everyone else's hands involved in safeguarding the child, and to my mind cannot possibly have been justified. The evidence may have failed to make out that Ben was abusive, and that may be the rationale for her return, but it certainly cannot have proved irrefutably that he was not. You cant prove a negative that way.

The judge has blood on her hands, a judgement of spectacular and unusual stupidity, even if this hadn't occurred

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Killed his 6 year old daughter. Another social services disgrace another child lost x"

From what I've read of the case, social services did their very best to try and keep the child in the custody of her grandparents.

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