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"What lies?" The entire broadcast, watch it yourself. Not a single fact, just BS claims including one that it is immigrants that are causing the NHS crisis. This is patently false as the big issue for the NHS is an ageing population and that is inherently an issue even if we leave! | |||
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"What lies? The entire broadcast, watch it yourself. Not a single fact, just BS claims including one that it is immigrants that are causing the NHS crisis. This is patently false as the big issue for the NHS is an ageing population and that is inherently an issue even if we leave!" That bitch Farage said we'd have 30 million Romanians by now. Don't be surprised by the lies of Brexit. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction." Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction." Why are people so convinced that Boris will be the next leader? He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN " 
The right wing Tories will finish the dismantling of the NHS just as they have already started to do. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Why are people so convinced that Boris will be the next leader? He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance. " Theresa has been very quiet the past few months. I think secret squirrel is biding her time. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN " Another person falling into the trap of concentrating on the personality and not the issue. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN " Hear Hear I have to say anything the Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Nigel Frarage are for then I am against. There is something of the night about all three of them. | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today" He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened..." He said they have to go home. Blatant lie | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... He said they have to go home. Blatant lie" The whole question of migration is being used by both camps as scare tactics. The can be no dispute that foreign nationals from the EU and beyond that come to work in the UK contribute to the exchequer. There will be those who cannot contribute and they need to be captured by the social net as the last time I enquired the UK was a civilised and tolerant society. On the whole Nigel and his like use the net immigration figures to scare folks into voting leave when we should be focusing the net migration is stable. The ease of intercontinental travel will exacerbate figures , However the CEO of Smith Clyne Beecham summed it up for me when he said that a vote to leave will cause that company to close most of its operation on drug research and development as it can only get a licence for selling pharmaceuticals developed in the EU. Its just not been thought through in my view. | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... He said they have to go home. Blatant lie" as they have no job, no benefits and no housing credits the likelihood is that they would do this. if you are an economic migrant and you dont have any means of living what would you do? i'd go and find a job elsewhere. it also clearly changes the message to people in the EU about coming here without a job. what is your problem with immigrants anyway? | |||
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"Whoa everyone! You're all reacting to what may or may not appeal to you and everyone else. It's called Politics. The EU Referendum is no different to the run up to Local & General Elections. Politicians will say anything they wish, on the hope of securing every vital vote and winning. And usually they do the total opposite once in power! This time around, NO-ONE knows what will happen once the final count is revealed; it's all Speculation, so just wait and see!" up to a point you are right, but blatant lies should always be called out! | |||
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" Regardless of whether the figures are entirely accurate, why should UK be paying this EU fee? We keep getting told Britain is the 5th most wealthy/powerful nation so why do we need these EU deadweights dragging us down? We can negotiate our own trade agreements. Are other countries going to refuse to deal with us? " Most types of clubs or associations charge a membership fee. The EU is that on a larger scale. The fact that we are such a big economy will be partly because of our membership of the single market. We can already make our own trade deals, as we did with China last autumn during their state visit. We had a trade delegation go to India too in 2014 and signed trade deals. | |||
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"Whoa everyone! You're all reacting to what may or may not appeal to you and everyone else. It's called Politics. The EU Referendum is no different to the run up to Local & General Elections. Politicians will say anything they wish, on the hope of securing every vital vote and winning. And usually they do the total opposite once in power! This time around, NO-ONE knows what will happen once the final count is revealed; it's all Speculation, so just wait and see! up to a point you are right, but blatant lies should always be called out!" Maybe so, but who defines what is Truth and what is a Lie? Each side of the argument is subjective to whoever is listening and how they interpret it all. It can be backed up with so much evidence etc to suit each side of the issue but it comes down eventually to the final vote and whatever winning side decides how to act! | |||
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"What facts? Does anyone really expect facts from either side? A lot of people are fed up with the immigrant situation and we seem to have no power to do anything about it. Regardless of whether the figures are entirely accurate, why should UK be paying this EU fee? We keep getting told Britain is the 5th most wealthy/powerful nation so why do we need these EU deadweights dragging us down? We can negotiate our own trade agreements. Are other countries going to refuse to deal with us? Let's jack it in and start with a clean sheet. " because we won't have a clean sheet! we will be starting from a weak position with a negative shock to the economy, impact of a weak currency, higher cost of borrowing. if only it would be a clean slate. if leave were actually honest about how much more rubbish it would be for at least 5 years I would be more prepared to give them some credit. selling this to people through rose tinted spectacles which any credible economist shoots down is more than sad, especially if people fall for it... | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... He said they have to go home. Blatant lie as they have no job, no benefits and no housing credits the likelihood is that they would do this. if you are an economic migrant and you dont have any means of living what would you do? i'd go and find a job elsewhere. it also clearly changes the message to people in the EU about coming here without a job. what is your problem with immigrants anyway? " I don't have a problem with immigrants, I do have a problem with politicians lying about their policies and actions and I do have a problem with a policy that floods the labour market and forces wages down. I have no problem with limiting the number of unskilled EU workers in favour of highly skilled workers from outside the EU. The current policy discourages companies from training their own workers in favour of importing workers from overseas. That makes the problem for youngsters coming into the job market even tougher. | |||
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"Whoa everyone! You're all reacting to what may or may not appeal to you and everyone else. It's called Politics. The EU Referendum is no different to the run up to Local & General Elections. Politicians will say anything they wish, on the hope of securing every vital vote and winning. And usually they do the total opposite once in power! This time around, NO-ONE knows what will happen once the final count is revealed; it's all Speculation, so just wait and see! up to a point you are right, but blatant lies should always be called out! Maybe so, but who defines what is Truth and what is a Lie? Each side of the argument is subjective to whoever is listening and how they interpret it all. It can be backed up with so much evidence etc to suit each side of the issue but it comes down eventually to the final vote and whatever winning side decides how to act!" have you been reading George Orwell!? truth and lies are not defined by the truth police - they are evident and visible. the NHS is not failing due to immigrants, we do not spend £350m per week with the EU, Turkey is not going to be joining the EU. the Remain side do not tell whoppers like this.... | |||
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"'Politicians tell lies' shock. More at ten!" can anyone tell me the names of politicians that tell the truth, once you get to be a MP your bread is well buttered, and you would intend to keep it that way | |||
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"The BBC credited the vote Leave campaign video as being a novel spin on the traditional election broadcast, with some clever stylistic touches. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36367247 However the BBC criticised the Remain campaign video saying that there is a danger it won't hold viewers attention, and that it begins to look increasingly like a promotional video for a further education college. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36377201" so having a good 'storyteller' is all you need to con the great British public..., I so hope it isn't  | |||
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"Whoa everyone! You're all reacting to what may or may not appeal to you and everyone else. It's called Politics. The EU Referendum is no different to the run up to Local & General Elections. Politicians will say anything they wish, on the hope of securing every vital vote and winning. And usually they do the total opposite once in power! This time around, NO-ONE knows what will happen once the final count is revealed; it's all Speculation, so just wait and see! up to a point you are right, but blatant lies should always be called out! Maybe so, but who defines what is Truth and what is a Lie? Each side of the argument is subjective to whoever is listening and how they interpret it all. It can be backed up with so much evidence etc to suit each side of the issue but it comes down eventually to the final vote and whatever winning side decides how to act! have you been reading George Orwell!? truth and lies are not defined by the truth police - they are evident and visible. the NHS is not failing due to immigrants, we do not spend £350m per week with the EU, Turkey is not going to be joining the EU. the Remain side do not tell whoppers like this...." I have not read George Orwell nor do I have any intention of doing so. But for the past few weeks, we have all been subjected to a never ending tirade from all sides about what could occur depending on which side wins! Unlike General Elections where respective sides have previous political battles to draw upon to calculate any definitive outcome, this time around, they don't! This is a one off! As said previously, it is all utter Speculation at this stage. No one knows what WILL happen for certain, nor what WON'T. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN " David Cameron to stay as PM, and George Osborne to stay as Chancellor? An even better reason to vote LEAVE. | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened..." Indeed he did....and good for him. He clearly stated that they come here, work for minimum wage and claim up to £10k per year in working tax benefits on top. He was being very honest. He said if we remain then other countries have said they will let him stop this....not bloody likely! Got a bit rattled when Dimblebug read out a quote from former M & S chief executive and LEADER of the remain campaign. "If we leave the EU then wages of the lowest paid workers are bound to increase. This is not a good thing" Obviously not...because the remain fat cats want to continue to target recruitment in low wage, EU countries in order to keep wages low here and keep their profits high. It's quite funny when these little truths slip out. Like Caroline Lucas (Green Party MP and ex MEP and another leading remainer) let things slip on Sunday Politics by stating that the EU budget hasn't been audited signed off for "many years" because of corruption! | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... Indeed he did....and good for him. He clearly stated that they come here, work for minimum wage and claim up to £10k per year in working tax benefits on top. He was being very honest. He said if we remain then other countries have said they will let him stop this....not bloody likely! Got a bit rattled when Dimblebug read out a quote from former M & S chief executive and LEADER of the remain campaign. "If we leave the EU then wages of the lowest paid workers are bound to increase. This is not a good thing" Obviously not...because the remain fat cats want to continue to target recruitment in low wage, EU countries in order to keep wages low here and keep their profits high. It's quite funny when these little truths slip out. Like Caroline Lucas (Green Party MP and ex MEP and another leading remainer) let things slip on Sunday Politics by stating that the EU budget hasn't been audited signed off for "many years" because of corruption!" watching TG now, much more entertaining ; ) | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened..." He also said that non EU migration is 'very difficult to control'. And that his renegotiation will go ahead 'if it is ratified'. Note the 'if'. | |||
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"It's quite funny when these little truths slip out. Like Caroline Lucas (Green Party MP and ex MEP and another leading remainer) let things slip on Sunday Politics by stating that the EU budget hasn't been audited signed off for "many years" because of corruption!" And until a few years ago Nigel Farage used to openly admit that leaving the EU would have negative economic consequences - but that he was willing to accept them. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN David Cameron to stay as PM, and George Osborne to stay as Chancellor? An even better reason to vote LEAVE." This will make a good read for you http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/10/david-cameron-stay-as-pm-if-i-lose-eu-referendum So Cameron as pm whatever the vote ..and a Tory version of in or out ....best of luck with your out ..dont think it will be the version many brexiters seem to believe they are voting for .... | |||
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"It's quite funny when these little truths slip out. Like Caroline Lucas (Green Party MP and ex MEP and another leading remainer) let things slip on Sunday Politics by stating that the EU budget hasn't been audited signed off for "many years" because of corruption! And until a few years ago Nigel Farage used to openly admit that leaving the EU would have negative economic consequences - but that he was willing to accept them." In common with many people......but staying could have even more? | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Why are people so convinced that Boris will be the next leader? He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance. Theresa has been very quiet the past few months. I think secret squirrel is biding her time. " I've noticed that. I recently looked back on a comment I made in a political forum in 2001, saying keep your eyes on a future Tory leader. Even placed a bet on it too... She's no fool. She's biding her time.... | |||
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" However the CEO of Smith Clyne Beecham summed it up for me when he said that a vote to leave will cause that company to close most of its operation on drug research and development as it can only get a licence for selling pharmaceuticals developed in the EU. Its just not been thought through in my view. " They haven't been Smith Kline Beecham since the merger with the Wellcome Foundation to become GlaxoSmithKline | |||
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" However the CEO of Smith Clyne Beecham summed it up for me when he said that a vote to leave will cause that company to close most of its operation on drug research and development as it can only get a licence for selling pharmaceuticals developed in the EU. Its just not been thought through in my view. They haven't been Smith Kline Beecham since the merger with the Wellcome Foundation to become GlaxoSmithKline " forgive the mixing of companies but you get the drift? | |||
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" I have not read George Orwell nor do I have any intention of doing so. " Nineteen Eighty Four Animal Farm The Road to Wigan Pier, All classics and I'd recommend all three | |||
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"What facts? Does anyone really expect facts from either side? A lot of people are fed up with the immigrant situation and we seem to have no power to do anything about it. Regardless of whether the figures are entirely accurate, why should UK be paying this EU fee? We keep getting told Britain is the 5th most wealthy/powerful nation so why do we need these EU deadweights dragging us down? We can negotiate our own trade agreements. Are other countries going to refuse to deal with us? Let's jack it in and start with a clean sheet. because we won't have a clean sheet! we will be starting from a weak position with a negative shock to the economy, impact of a weak currency, higher cost of borrowing. if only it would be a clean slate. if leave were actually honest about how much more rubbish it would be for at least 5 years I would be more prepared to give them some credit. selling this to people through rose tinted spectacles which any credible economist shoots down is more than sad, especially if people fall for it..." No offence but views (not facts) like these are no more credible than any other. There is no way to predict what will happen. Some industrialists say this some say that, same for economists. You might as well ask Colin Fry (oops he's dead, didn't predict that then) or use a Ouija board. A lot of people are just fed up with this EU shit, it's as simple as that. | |||
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"What facts? Does anyone really expect facts from either side? A lot of people are fed up with the immigrant situation and we seem to have no power to do anything about it. Regardless of whether the figures are entirely accurate, why should UK be paying this EU fee? We keep getting told Britain is the 5th most wealthy/powerful nation so why do we need these EU deadweights dragging us down? We can negotiate our own trade agreements. Are other countries going to refuse to deal with us? Let's jack it in and start with a clean sheet. " Couple of problems with that. The taking control of our borders issue is the crux of the Brexit argument to do that we have to not only leave the EU but not join the EFTA or the EEA either. This means we will be subject to international trade rules this has to mean 10 to 20% import tariffs on our exports making them non competitive. We will likely do the same which hikes prices increasing inflation. A huge number of manufacturing companies and service industries need the free access to the EU to operate from here, many will move if their costs go up 20% and they become uncompetitive. It cannot under EU rules be allowed to be in either the EEA or the EFTA without agreeing to free movement much like Norway or Swiss. I fear the Brexit voters are being duped in to voting under false pretence | |||
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"What facts? Does anyone really expect facts from either side? A lot of people are fed up with the immigrant situation and we seem to have no power to do anything about it. Regardless of whether the figures are entirely accurate, why should UK be paying this EU fee? We keep getting told Britain is the 5th most wealthy/powerful nation so why do we need these EU deadweights dragging us down? We can negotiate our own trade agreements. Are other countries going to refuse to deal with us? Let's jack it in and start with a clean sheet. because we won't have a clean sheet! we will be starting from a weak position with a negative shock to the economy, impact of a weak currency, higher cost of borrowing. if only it would be a clean slate. if leave were actually honest about how much more rubbish it would be for at least 5 years I would be more prepared to give them some credit. selling this to people through rose tinted spectacles which any credible economist shoots down is more than sad, especially if people fall for it... No offence but views (not facts) like these are no more credible than any other. There is no way to predict what will happen. Some industrialists say this some say that, same for economists. You might as well ask Colin Fry (oops he's dead, didn't predict that then) or use a Ouija board. A lot of people are just fed up with this EU shit, it's as simple as that." its possible to predict based upon how the rest of the world trades with the EU even ukips Nigel farage was admiting before the last election leaving the EU would have some negative impact on the economy ..it just depends on which way the tory government deals with the eu as to how much negative impact it will have .. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN "
That egotistical pr\ck is leading leave even though he personally believes in remain.
I'd hate him at the healm. | |||
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"The NHS crisis is a combination of rising healthcare costs in the current funding model, an aging population AND open door immigration meaning a new city of around 250,000 people enter the UK each year... But the NHS has not kept pace with these numbers meaning fewer gp appointments and hospital beds to go around. Add to this the evil of wage compression meaning that as the overall gdp grows (marginally) people's wages do not rise and the poor get poorer. The only option which gives us hope for a different and better future is to vote LEAVE. Otherwise more of the same loss of democracy, loss of decsion making at a local (national) level and slow economic stagnation." How on earth will a leave vote be any better for the nation let alone better for the NHS which in no way will be affected by either an in vote or out ...the NHS is in the hands of the Tories in or out .. | |||
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"Economic stagnation which is the predicted (IMF) outlook for EU equals further funding problems/stagnation for the NHS. I agree the hopeless Cameron/Osbourne are in charge but LEAVE will at least present the opportunity to regenerate the economy free of the shackles of the moribund EU." so the economic downturn that both sides agree will happen post a Brexit vote is ok..? and how long will it last? and Sterling which has risen today will also take a big hit..? | |||
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"The NHS crisis is a combination of rising healthcare costs in the current funding model, an aging population AND open door immigration meaning a new city of around 250,000 people enter the UK each year... But the NHS has not kept pace with these numbers meaning fewer gp appointments and hospital beds to go around. " speak to someone who works in the NHS and they will tell you that the main issue's with it is an ageing population, most immigrants from the EU are over here working and paying tax.. you can't have them tying up the beds i the NHS and driving down wages at the same time.. | |||
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"I'm watching Cameron say that EU nationals must go home after 6 months if they don't have a job. The biggest blatant lie I have heard today He actually explained the difference between EU migration and non EU migration. He also clearly explained how the benefits worked for EU citizens - so no lie at all, perhaps you miss listened... He said they have to go home. Blatant lie as they have no job, no benefits and no housing credits the likelihood is that they would do this. if you are an economic migrant and you dont have any means of living what would you do? i'd go and find a job elsewhere. it also clearly changes the message to people in the EU about coming here without a job. what is your problem with immigrants anyway? " They scavenge through the bins and beg, like the ones i see most mornings and the several "spare some change" with an eastern european twang types i see dotted about the high street. | |||
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"I work in the NHS!" so does my other half, my brother, my sister in law and a niece and nephew.. the pressures upon the NHS are in the elderly age bracket not helped by a lack of social care.. so tell me again how are all the EU immigrants in hospital and driving down wages at the same time..? is it magic..? | |||
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"Believe it or not people who work also go to the gp or even sometimes need a hospital appointment (maternity??) also migrants bring with them family members, sometimes they don't work! A healthy population also requires NHS interventions at many levels, do you know anyone for instance who receives expensive asthma or diabetes treatments - but still goes to work? The problem is the tax revenues generated are clearly not being used to provide the requisite healthcare infrastructure for an aging and rapidly rising population through mass immigration. It isn't difficult to understand really." the Eu migrants are a net contributor, its not their fault that the present incumbents have messed about with the NHS for political ideology.. its an easy and lazy scapegoat though.. what about the economic hit we will take, how long and how deep will it be..? | |||
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"Believe it or not people who work also go to the gp or even sometimes need a hospital appointment (maternity??) also migrants bring with them family members, sometimes they don't work! A healthy population also requires NHS interventions at many levels, do you know anyone for instance who receives expensive asthma or diabetes treatments - but still goes to work? The problem is the tax revenues generated are clearly not being used to provide the requisite healthcare infrastructure for an aging and rapidly rising population through mass immigration. It isn't difficult to understand really." For 35 years my wife received expensive asthma treatment and worked full time as do many asthma and diabetes sufferers ...whom we know .... | |||
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"For clarity - Surreysensual seemed to be suggesting that people who work do not use the NHS." no read again what i said.. you said immigrants are the main strain on the NHS and that they are also driving wages down, i responded by saying they can't do both.. you then came back with something but basically seemed to swerve the question.. | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN
The right wing Tories will finish the dismantling of the NHS just as they have already started to do. "I am afraid it was labour who actually started us on the road to a privatised nhs | |||
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"And the NHS is underfunded by the Tories, with an aim to privatise it eventually. Voting Brexit will bring Boris to power and he'll push even further in that direction. Boris for pm ? Good reason in itself to vote REMAIN
The right wing Tories will finish the dismantling of the NHS just as they have already started to do.
I am afraid it was labour who actually started us on the road to a privatised nhs"the idea and initial implementation of PFI was under John Major in 92, labour opposed it initially then when in power in 97 expanded it and took it further.. | |||
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"For clarity - Surreysensual seemed to be suggesting that people who work do not use the NHS. no read again what i said.. you said immigrants are the main strain on the NHS and that they are also driving wages down, i responded by saying they can't do both.. you then came back with something but basically seemed to swerve the question.. " You need to read again what I said! Immigration is one of three factors creating stress on the provision of health services. You failed to respond to the point that whether every migrant who enters the country is working is largely irrelevant as no increase in health provision is in place to accommodate us all - therefore increased pressure on all public services not just the NHS. | |||
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