FabSwingers.com forum: Libya

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?"

Doesn't to seem to matter now. Welcome to the world's worst wake, where we celebrate the fact that we sat on our hands for weeks while people fought and died by sending in a few planes in the hope no-one gets killed and Cameron doesn't get embarassed.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?"

on this occasion.. i think the UN have got the resolution spot on....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?

...and not just in that country. The fight for democracy is spreading throughout the middle east like wildfire

how far do we take it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Choice A) lots of handwringing, tut-tutting and mutterings about how we shouldn't let madmen kill their own civilians.

Choice B) Get stuck in and do something about it regardless of the cost of doing so because to do nothing makes our lovely words about democracy and freedom absolutely worthless.

Choice B) for me, ta.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Choice A) lots of handwringing, tut-tutting and mutterings about how we shouldn't let madmen kill their own civilians.

Choice B) Get stuck in and do something about it regardless of the cost of doing so because to do nothing makes our lovely words about democracy and freedom absolutely worthless.

Choice B) for me, ta."

i agree.

how do we pay for it?

who are we sending in when we are decreasing the size of our forces?

why stop at Libya? Why aren't we helping other countries under such similar regimes?

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

we have enough of our forces involved with afgahn etc and lost enough lives due to the conflicts, bring our forces back and let them get on with it, i have lost family and friends over the years in the dif conflicts and i still shead a tear when they bring the bodies back to lyneham

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By *waymanMan
over a year ago

newcastle

"Choice A) lots of handwringing, tut-tutting and mutterings about how we shouldn't let madmen kill their own civilians.

Choice B) Get stuck in and do something about it regardless of the cost of doing so because to do nothing makes our lovely words about democracy and freedom absolutely worthless.

Choice B) for me, ta."

Same for me - but then I supported the war in Iraq as well...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?"

were a small nation,let someone else fight another mans battle for a change , austria perhaps...or denmark..norway? why do we feel the need to interfere, arent enough of our young men and women being killed in another country at the minute to worry about sending another few thousand somewhere else to be shot at ,and for what!

i wish the politicians would just keep their fucking noses out if it saves one british soldier from being killed or injured

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Makes me wonder if our lot went "mad" who would rescue us if anyone pmsl xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Makes me wonder if our lot went "mad" who would rescue us if anyone pmsl xx

I thought that has crossed my mind more than once!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

As soon as the Libyan government announced this afternoon that British/Dutch/French/German Oil workers must return within 7 days to resume work on the oil fields, or lose their contracts to the Indian and Chinese governments...

We were always going to go in and wreck Gadaffi's party.

The Chinese have been arming Gadaffi for a couple of years....in all likelyhood in order to become the sole oil export destination for Libya.

We are living in the real world now....the one that depends on affordable oil

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Choice B) for me, ta.

Same for me - but then I supported the war in Iraq as well..."

...but what do we know about these 'rebels'? do we know what they want? other than to overthrow the existing government that is.

there seems to be a small pocket that don't have the support of a nation and we are trying to safeguard them and encourage them to march onto tripoli and overthrow gaddafi.

what we don't seem to know is what they represent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

a definite no from me sick and tired of fighting othe rcountries wars, have spent the last 20 yrs being sent to shit holes that had nothing to do with england , and yes i am english not british, i joined the army to protect my country , not be the international police force of 3rd world shitholes , and where do i find myself right now , in a 3rd world shithole called afghanistan for the 3rd time , god i can not wait to be a civvy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Choice A) lots of handwringing, tut-tutting and mutterings about how we shouldn't let madmen kill their own civilians.

Choice B) Get stuck in and do something about it regardless of the cost of doing so because to do nothing makes our lovely words about democracy and freedom absolutely worthless.

Choice B) for me, ta.

i agree.

how do we pay for it?

who are we sending in when we are decreasing the size of our forces?

why stop at Libya? Why aren't we helping other countries under such similar regimes?"

With what happened in Egypt and Tunisia I can only summise that the powers that be were hoping Libya would go the same way - a few deaths but an overall peaceful transfer of power. When it became clear that Gadaffi would utilise his entire armed forces against his own people we couldn't stand by and do nothing. Imagine the carnage if Gadaffi had been allowed to roll his tanks into Benghazi unchecked, he'd have brutally masacred thousands of rebels.

Like Saddam, this nutter has to go, but I think the Arab League could have done a little bit more.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"As soon as the Libyan government announced this afternoon that British/Dutch/French/German Oil workers must return within 7 days to resume work on the oil fields, or lose their contracts to the Indian and Chinese governments...

We were always going to go in and wreck Gadaffi's party.

The Chinese have been arming Gadaffi for a couple of years....in all likelyhood in order to become the sole oil export destination for Libya.

We are living in the real world now....the one that depends on affordable oil"

between 2005/09 we exported £119m worth of arms to Libya

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By *plpxp2Couple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

Its a strange world when we have to cut back, cut public services, sack the armed forces and yet we still seem to have the money to be the worlds policeman. Would anyone be interested if the country didn't have oil?

Civil wars have been raging in Africe for years with hundereds of thousands killed and the world ignores it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

how do we pay for it?

who are we sending in when we are decreasing the size of our forces?

why stop at Libya? Why aren't we helping other countries under such similar regimes?

Like Saddam, this nutter has to go, but I think the Arab League could have done a little bit more."

as i said, i don't disagree, but we have seen our guys these past few years fighting in the middle east and crippled in that fight by poor equipment....the reason being is that the mod budget is over-stretched.

how do we sustain this?

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By *pitfiresCouple
over a year ago

East

How do we pay for it ? ....we don't !!

As per every other western economy for the past decade we just print more money and hope the problem goes away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why should it always be us that steps in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cue the jeeps of Al Gaeda from Yemen to Tripoli and Bengazi ...if Gaddafi takes the engagement to the steets and uses the populace as human shields....

Happy days fer Iran ..

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

We were always going to go in and wreck Gadaffi's party.

The Chinese have been arming Gadaffi for a couple of years....in all likelyhood in order to become the sole oil export destination for Libya.

We are living in the real world now....the one that depends on affordable oil

between 2005/09 we exported £119m worth of arms to Libya"

Independent British companies may of, that is the big difference, the Chinese military and ordenance companies are all government owned.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"why should it always be us that steps in? "

It's not only just us though

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"Makes me wonder if our lot went "mad" who would rescue us if anyone pmsl xx

I seriously doubt if any of our lot have the ooomph or tenacity to get up off their lazy arses to even bother

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were always going to go in and wreck Gadaffi's party.

The Chinese have been arming Gadaffi for a couple of years....in all likelyhood in order to become the sole oil export destination for Libya.

We are living in the real world now....the one that depends on affordable oil"

so that explains why china wouldnt back the resolution!

i wonder if russia is in the same boat?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"a definite no from me sick and tired of fighting othe rcountries wars, have spent the last 20 yrs being sent to shit holes that had nothing to do with england , and yes i am english not british, i joined the army to protect my country , not be the international police force of 3rd world shitholes , and where do i find myself right now , in a 3rd world shithole called afghanistan for the 3rd time , god i can not wait to be a civvy "
keep your head down mate and lets hope the clowns that run this country grow a set and get you all out of there

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Sorry to say this, and no disrespect here, but British Armed Forces have spent the last Two hundred years fighting conflicts overseas....it never started when you joined up, so you must have been aware of that when you signed on the dotted line.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"why should it always be us that steps in?

It's not only just us though

no but theres plenty of others that never do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes fighting conflicts that had a british intrest , ie we were defending or expanding the empire , just explain to me what intrest britain has in , bosnia , kosovo, rawanda, iraq and afghanistan , which are just a few to name that i have had the pleasure over the last decade to find myself in

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the figures of what we have sold to libya since 2005 are as follows (in euros):

ammunition & fuses

3,088

tear gas / chemical weapons / radioactive

455,705m

electronic equipment

26.163,548

military planes

15,780,000

small guns

283,942

we are the third largest EU exporter behind italy and france.

so...we sell them all this military warfare then go in and fight against our own weapons?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"yes fighting conflicts that had a british intrest , ie we were defending or expanding the empire , just explain to me what intrest britain has in , bosnia , kosovo, rawanda, iraq and afghanistan , which are just a few to name that i have had the pleasure over the last decade to find myself in "

If you don't understand what you were doing in the Balkans or Rwanda then I can't begin to explain it to you....I would have thought you knew damn well why you were there.

I guess you really do know.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you don't understand what you were doing in the Balkans or Rwanda then I can't begin to explain it to you....I would have thought you knew damn well why you were there.

I guess you really do know....."

defending queen and country?

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

the west has propped up,and supported,many dictatorships,over the years.

in the middle east,africa,and south america.some of these regimes,had horrendous human rights records,against their own people.

on other occasions,they have chosen to ignore,dictatorships,or apply pointless sanctions.against countries committing human rights atrocities,against their own people.

so lets not kid ourselves,that this conflict has anything to do,with human rights,or morality.

it's only about oil,like iraq.

it's another conflict,on the back of a lie.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

so in bosnia, kosovo and rawanda the fact there was a genocide going on isn't good enough for you.... wow.....

I am a human being first and foremost... and it is stops people comitting "crimes against Humanity", then that is good enough for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

rawanda and bosnia was not defending queen and country it was splitting up to factions who acted and behaved like animals, my arguement is why should our army be used to sort out the arguements of other factions who have no respect for human kind or themselves , and it is us who endure the suffering , if you truly believe the croatians wernt just as bad as the bosnians or serbians then you dont understand the balkans and equally the hutsies were just as bad as the tutsies in rawanda , animals the lot of them

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

so in bosnia, kosovo and rawanda the fact there was a genocide going on isn't good enough for you.... wow.....

I am a human being first and foremost... and it is stops people comitting "crimes against Humanity", then that is good enough for me"

very easy to say when you're not the one holding a gun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm dead against the UK poking their noses into what doesn't concern them.

If I remember rightly we helped get rid of a certain Mr Hussain in an effort to make Iraq a better place ....

That worked didn't it ?

So lets get involved once again, why not eh ??

Oil ? who mentioned oil ?

No, I'm not cynical ... ??

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

so in bosnia, kosovo and rawanda the fact there was a genocide going on isn't good enough for you.... wow.....

I am a human being first and foremost... and it is stops people comitting "crimes against Humanity", then that is good enough for me

very easy to say when you're not the one holding a gun.

so would you rather we just watched people die in the most gruesome ways... and then say "sorry... not my problem guv!" and wash your hands of it all....

if you sign up for the army... you have to know you will be in certain situations...

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

A list of the nations who contributed troops to the Rwandan peacekeeping force;

Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Fiji, Germany, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, India, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Netherlands, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

They were there to stop mass genocide....if that's not a good enough reason then I don't know what is.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

so would you rather we just watched people die in the most gruesome ways... and then say "sorry... not my problem guv!" and wash your hands of it all....

if you sign up for the army... you have to know you will be in certain situations..."

no, i wouldn't.

though, libya isn't the only country that is living under such a regime...not even the worst.

libya issued a statement to say there would be no further conflict and before they could even prove that the french have gone in.

our men join the defence service to defend...this is not defence, it's attack.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no if you sign up for the army you expect to defend your country not go sticking our noses into every despots businees all over the world , if you feel so strongly about human rights , get yourself down to the recruiting office, join up and who knows next year you may get your wish of being in a hovel defending some countries people who have caused there own problems and dont give 2 shits about you, but then i guess your opinion might change when it might actualy be you in the fring line , like so many of the other arm chair warriors , i joined to protect my queen and country , my country not the world , that is the oath i swore , it certainly was not to go and intefere in countries that are of no interest to britain

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

so would you rather we just watched people die in the most gruesome ways... and then say "sorry... not my problem guv!" and wash your hands of it all....

if you sign up for the army... you have to know you will be in certain situations...

no, i wouldn't.

though, libya isn't the only country that is living under such a regime...not even the worst.

libya issued a statement to say there would be no further conflict and before they could even prove that the french have gone in.

our men join the defence service to defend...this is not defence, it's attack.

I think you might find that the French "have gone in" because the Lybian Forces had no intention of stopping what they were doing and were carrying on regardless of the announcement the Lybian Government made!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

so would you rather we just watched people die in the most gruesome ways... and then say "sorry... not my problem guv!" and wash your hands of it all....

if you sign up for the army... you have to know you will be in certain situations...

no, i wouldn't.

though, libya isn't the only country that is living under such a regime...not even the worst.

libya issued a statement to say there would be no further conflict and before they could even prove that the french have gone in.

our men join the defence service to defend...this is not defence, it's attack.

the "ceasefire"... okay... not been watch sky news, cnn, bbc news and al jazeera today then.... hmmm

so when gadaffi said "he will not spare anyone in bengazhi" yesterday.... spoken like a man of peace... and then the warnings today.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the "ceasefire"... okay... not been watch sky news, cnn, bbc news and al jazeera today then.... hmmm

so when gadaffi said "he will not spare anyone in bengazhi" yesterday.... spoken like a man of peace... and then the warnings today.....

i'm watching it now...i'm watching the rebel plane that was shot down by the rebel army.

it's all a little convenient...we sat by and watched for too long and responded too quickly for it to seem anything other than convenient

i hope not one drop of british blood is shed out there....more so, i hope not one british soldier dies by a british made arm and a british made bullet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no if you sign up for the army you expect to defend your country not go sticking our noses into every despots businees all over the world , if you feel so strongly about human rights , get yourself down to the recruiting office, join up and who knows next year you may get your wish of being in a hovel defending some countries people who have caused there own problems and dont give 2 shits about you, but then i guess your opinion might change when it might actualy be you in the fring line , like so many of the other arm chair warriors , i joined to protect my queen and country , my country not the world , that is the oath i swore , it certainly was not to go and intefere in countries that are of no interest to britain "

very true its easy to have an opinion when in the safety of your own home

give it a go i say and then see if you still agree

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

My family has a deep history of our menfolk serving our country, my own father was mortally wounded overseas in 1972 passing away several months after.

My brother never let that put him off, he served his country for many years, nor did his two sons, nor my late sisters son. all three of whom are currently serving in the Royal Marines and Rifles.

They signed up for WHATEVER was thrown at them, not just to sit at home defending our shores.

You can't pick and choose which conflicts you take part in, a fact I am 100% sure you knew when you signed up.

I was too young to gauge the depths of my fathers feelings about serving in the armed forces, but I do know that my Three nephews joined up and continue to serve in full knowledge of the dangers that may face them and do so with pride.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

my family too....both my grandfathers were in ww11 and my great grandfathers were in ww1. my dad served in Aden...

my grandad and my dad cannot fathom why we are in

my dad couldn't understand why he was in aden back then either

my grandad saw that he was defending the threat against britain when he was at war.

i have cousins in the navy as is my childrens father...they don't approve either

this guy is also currently serving and i beleive entitled to his opinion.

you cant tell him to get on it with it and stop moaning just because of your family history.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I read a story once from one of the few surviving men of ww1.

he said "do you think we wanted to be there? did we hell. we did it because we had to"

those men were no more and no less heroes than our guys today.

we will not know all the heroes or hear all the stories until many years after these conflicts are over

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By *oDownEasyMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Im OK with taking action but since when did the UN forces consist of just us,the Americans, and (good god can they actually fight lol) the French?

There are plenty of countries in the UN a lot closer than us!And *they* arent fighting in Afghanistan(well, not very much!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

jane i understand what your saying , i am a original royal green jacket therefore i am rifles, 1 rifles are out here now as part of 3 cdo bde , i have pride in my battalion and my mates , i ask my men to do things i have no right to ask them to do , but they do it , and i love them for it and would do anything for them , but do we want to be out here do we hell , ask your nephews , we just want to do our tour and come home safe , we dont care less about afghanistan and i hope i never se the place ever again , that is my arguement , why am i here , you explain to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?"
half the country be outrage

bliar tried 2 help free iraq

look what happen to him

it should be un get involved 1st

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My family has a deep history of our menfolk serving our country, my own father was mortally wounded overseas in 1972 passing away several months after.

My brother never let that put him off, he served his country for many years, nor did his two sons, nor my late sisters son. all three of whom are currently serving in the Royal Marines and Rifles.

They signed up for WHATEVER was thrown at them, not just to sit at home defending our shores.

You can't pick and choose which conflicts you take part in, a fact I am 100% sure you knew when you signed up.

we too have a long forces history in our family too many coflicts to start listing tbf

we also have a son that starts his phase 1 in june and yes it will be done with pride and i am the proudest mum in the whole world (in my opinion)

yet i am certain there will be times when he questions why he is being sent to clean up some other idiots mess as so many off our family have before him

its easy for the leaders of these countries to send in their forces when they go home to the safety of their own homes and the comfort of their families each and every night i say let them serve for a few years before they get to make choices like that i think some very different choices would be made if they did

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

An apt quote for all you "armchair warriors" out there who yap about what the army should, or should not do.

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on ...that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand at post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Not exactly pertinent to the situation in Libya I'll grant you, but I posted it as a reminder that, sometimes, people (in this case the Govt) have to "stand on the wall", while the electarate get to sleep easy, whilst (in a democracy) being free to condemn actions taken to help ease the suffering of others, who currently are fighting to have the same rights.

I've served, and lost friends, freedom is a right, not a priviledge, and these people need help to attain that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"jane i understand what your saying , i am a original royal green jacket therefore i am rifles, 1 rifles are out here now as part of 3 cdo bde , i have pride in my battalion and my mates , i ask my men to do things i have no right to ask them to do , but they do it , and i love them for it and would do anything for them , but do we want to be out here do we hell , ask your nephews , we just want to do our tour and come home safe , we dont care less about afghanistan and i hope i never se the place ever again , that is my arguement , why am i here , you explain to me "

i know some green jacket lads and my dad was a D&D for 22years :D

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"An apt quote for all you "armchair warriors" out there who yap about what the army should, or should not do.

I've served, and lost friends, freedom is a right, not a priviledge, and these people need help to attain that.

well said that man

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By *untimes11Man
over a year ago

cardiff

Even the Yanks were reluctant to intervene in this one which is suprising given that they're the first to interfere when it comes to an oil rich nation. I think we're all getting a bit sick of war, i'd prefer it if we brough all our troops back home and sorted our own problems out first. Wars cost billions and we cant even balance our own countries defeciet at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some one has to do it just wish the yanks was not behind us ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a UN backed action, to enforce a No-Fly zone and we're a permanent member of the UN Security Council so we need to act up to that part we appointed ourselves after WW2.

Gadaffi is off his rocker and all the French have done so far is flown around and opened fire on a military target.

Keeping a lunatic from wiping out anyone with a different opinion from his own is one good reason to be there, but to protect hundreds of millions of pounds worth UK investment in Libyan oil for the upstream businesses and employees directly involved, as well as preserve our own fuel prices for the UK population in general as an indirect reason constitutes good reason #2.

Using our fast jet fleet oversees in theatre is good for the Royal Air Force too, who have been battered under the recent defence review and the general public sold the story that the RAF don't need any jets in this post Cold War era.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it is that

(un nations are in charge of assault)

he wont last for long in power he will be over run

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

we got any ships left to take them out there?

where's the ark royal when you nedd it..

...oh, i know....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we got any ships left to take them out there?

where's the ark royal when you nedd it..

...oh, i know...."
in dock some were being decommission order the so called uk government

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By *plpxp2Couple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

we got any ships left to take them out there?

where's the ark royal when you nedd it..

...oh, i know...."

110 cruise missiles @ $600,000 U.S.D each fired tonight, could have bought an aircraft carrier

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By *untimes11Man
over a year ago

cardiff

"Keeping a lunatic from wiping out anyone with a different opinion from his own is one good reason to be there, but to protect hundreds of millions of pounds worth UK investment in Libyan oil for the upstream businesses and employees directly involved, as well as preserve our own fuel prices for the UK population in general as an indirect reason constitutes good reason #2."

I understand the financial imlications of oil etc, and i'd always support the troops on the ground regardless of the conflict. They get paid a pittance for putting their lives on the line and doing a very difficult job. I'ts just that nations seem very quick to intervene when oil get's thrown into the mix but are happy not to intervene when it isn't. All the while, America hasn't even tapped into most of their own oil reserves because they're making a fortune from every barrel of oil that's traded in dollars.

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By *untimes11Man
over a year ago

cardiff

[Removed by poster at 19/03/11 20:55:16]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

we got any ships left to take them out there?

where's the ark royal when you nedd it..

...oh, i know....in dock some were being decommission order the so called uk government "

totally, and stripped bare so the decision cannot be reversed

shame

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we got any ships left to take them out there?

where's the ark royal when you nedd it..

...oh, i know....in dock some were being decommission order the so called uk government

totally, and stripped bare so the decision cannot be reversed

shame"
just have an air force

going of topic i no

what happen if we get an attack from out there you

how we going to defend our self

with nothing in the air to support the ground troops (just as thought)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If UK territory was attacked you mean? We'd never send our full air defence strength oversees at once, and always maintain defence aircraft on readiness for a scramble from stations such as Leuchars and Conningsby.

I don't know any specifics but I'd be very surprised if we'd sent more than a handful of Typhoons and Tornados to Libya.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And I thought that the UK was almost bankrupt.

It's funny how we haven't got any money to keep the old folks' homes open, to build new schools and hospitals, our roads look like a war zone because we can't afford to fix the potholes neither can we afford the salt to melt the ice in the winter, but when it comes to interfering in another country's business money is no object and we seem to be able to find billions ....

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

Western governments never seem to learn.

Air power never wins a war. It just degrades the opponents ability to fight a war.

What wins wars is boots on the ground.

To finish this war we will have to send ground troops just as we did in Kosavo. We are still occupying Kosavo 20 years later. The only "plus point" is that Libya falls in the french sphere of influence so they will be providing the majority of the ground troops when they do go in (which probably wont be until we have withdrawn the majority of our troops from Afghanistan which in turn will probably be speeded up somewhat now)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/03/11 09:55:27]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's really very simple. Lots of British institutions (i.e. British PLCs) are heavily invested in Libya, and if we don't do anything we'll lose all that investment and it sounds as though the Chinese were positioning themselves to cash in on our investment and reap the benefits.

The shareholders of these companies aren't just the stereotypical fatcat with a Ferrari the average Joe likes to imagine, but usually British banks and pension funds. Do you pay into a pension fund? Chances are that the money is invested someone who has an interest in Libya.

We're protecting British financial interests (and that means those of the general public, whether they're intelligent enough to realise it affects them or not), and that's why we've been forced to find the cash to fund this operation. Like Iraq, post-Gadaffi Libya will probably be invited to compensate us with better deals - such as tax relief for the investing companies and/or some oil revenue for our efforts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never quite seen the point of having an Army, Navy and Air force that are untried and untested in a live combat situation.

Should we spend billions and billions on an Armed Force that never go anywhere or do anything?

I think I'd be more outraged at that than the cost of sending our troops overseas to assist others in attaining the very freedom we take for granted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've never quite seen the point of having an Army, Navy and Air force that are untried and untested in a live combat situation.

Should we spend billions and billions on an Armed Force that never go anywhere or do anything?

I think I'd be more outraged at that than the cost of sending our troops overseas to assist others in attaining the very freedom we take for granted."
what armed forces there being scrape the fighters squadron, that has been sent from uk mainland are on there last mission.

we had once 1 of the best arm forces in 40s now its down to 30%

how are we suppose 2 defend in attack from other sources not necessary human

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've never quite seen the point of having an Army, Navy and Air force that are untried and untested in a live combat situation.

Should we spend billions and billions on an Armed Force that never go anywhere or do anything?

I think I'd be more outraged at that than the cost of sending our troops overseas to assist others in attaining the very freedom we take for granted.what armed forces there being scrape the fighters squadron, that has been sent from uk mainland are on there last mission.

we had once 1 of the best arm forces in 40s now its down to 30%

how are we suppose 2 defend in attack from other sources not necessary human

huh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've never quite seen the point of having an Army, Navy and Air force that are untried and untested in a live combat situation.

Should we spend billions and billions on an Armed Force that never go anywhere or do anything?

I think I'd be more outraged at that than the cost of sending our troops overseas to assist others in attaining the very freedom we take for granted."

This was George Osborne's take on things on Andrew Marr earlier. In essence he said we should think of this a wee excercise for our Armed Forces.

Where does he think we been for the last few years? What does he think we've been up to in Iraq and Afghanistan?

You could almost see Osborne's semi tucked away in his breeks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've never quite seen the point of having an Army, Navy and Air force that are untried and untested in a live combat situation.

Should we spend billions and billions on an Armed Force that never go anywhere or do anything?

I think I'd be more outraged at that than the cost of sending our troops overseas to assist others in attaining the very freedom we take for granted.

This was George Osborne's take on things on Andrew Marr earlier. In essence he said we should think of this a wee excercise for our Armed Forces.

Where does he think we been for the last few years? What does he think we've been up to in Iraq and Afghanistan?

You could almost see Osborne's semi tucked away in his breeks."

What about troops that have enlisted long after the Iraq war, or those who have enlisted since we went into Afghanistan? An army is continually evolving with new troops that most assuredly need 'blooding'. It is a much better tactic to employ troops in Afghanistan that have served there already and know the lay of the land.

The Libya situation is going to be very different from Iraq or Afghanistan with the aim being purely to assist the rebel forces to retain control once we've helped them wrestle it from Gadaffi's murderous hands.

Posters above have mentioned that we're going in to keep lucrative oil deals etc but Gadaffi has already threatened to award those deals to China and India if foreign workers refuse to return to work in Libya, so those deals are tentative at best.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the guys and girls who've done the heavy lifting keep getting the hard work 'cos they know the country?

" The Libya situation is going to be very different from Iraq or Afghanistan with the aim being purely to assist the rebel forces to retain control once we've helped them wrestle it from Gadaffi's murderous hands.

............... "

If Gadaffi has any sense he'll move the threat to Benghazi back 50 or 100 km and just sit there.

He'll have met the UN requirement for there to be no ongoing threat to civillians but, because we can't trust him, we'll have to maintain a no fly zone for ...... how many years?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the guys and girls who've done the heavy lifting keep getting the hard work 'cos they know the country?

I'd say a mix of experienced troops and new recruits would be the preferred modus operandi.

...............

If Gadaffi has any sense he'll move the threat to Benghazi back 50 or 100 km and just sit there.

He'll have met the UN requirement for there to be no ongoing threat to civillians but, because we can't trust him, we'll have to maintain a no fly zone for ...... how many years?"

Until he dies, or steps down due to ill health (ie, one of his cronies poisoning his food). He's quite an old man now, he can't last much longer. Hopefully.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But he has a son (or sons, I'm not sure) who will gladly step into his shoes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But he has a son (or sons, I'm not sure) who will gladly step into his shoes"

I can't see the West, or the people of Libya, permitting Gadaffi to be replaced by more of the same ilk. Once Gadaffi goes so will all his family/henchmen.

If anyone is still in any doubt about why we're there, I'd urge you to remember the A74 near Lockerbie and who ordered it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But he has a son (or sons, I'm not sure) who will gladly step into his shoes

I can't see the West, or the people of Libya, permitting Gadaffi to be replaced by more of the same ilk. Once Gadaffi goes so will all his family/henchmen.

If anyone is still in any doubt about why we're there, I'd urge you to remember the A74 near Lockerbie and who ordered it."

they've got a box at Old Trafford

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

anyone seen team america.

they go in fix the problem but always leave devistation in thier wake.

a funny film but very close to reality here, as we proved with sadam you cant cut the head of and expect something to live, look in history for a revolution to work it has to be fought from within.

the problem as always is we want what the country has to offer.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

I tell you what i am getting really pissed off woith the Arab league ,one minute they want a no fly zone ,with protected areas for the civillians then the french blow up a few tanks heading for Bengazzi and they throw a wobler,saying no that s not what we ment.

How the fuck are supposed to achieve it without our guys getting blown out the fucking sky..

they need to make there fucking mind up one way or the other and while it was them who made the request .lets send em the bill .!!!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Hague said this morning that Arab nations are indeed contributing much of the money for the campaign....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

If Gadaffi has any sense he'll move the threat to Benghazi back 50 or 100 km and just sit there.

He'll have met the UN requirement for there to be no ongoing threat to civillians but, because we can't trust him, we'll have to maintain a no fly zone for ...... how many years?"

well that was what was in the resolution... he could have done it... but he tried to test it.. and now he knows what the consequence is....

bomb the radar installations... bomb the miltary bases and the runways, maintain a sea embargo, which is what they have done... then they can maintain the no-fly zone with no threat...

funny enough... if the damage is as bad as the libyans say it is, why are they not taking western journalists seeing the sites to back up the claims?

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By *obletonMan
over a year ago

A Home Among The Woodland Creatures

how far do we take it?"

The cycnic in me suspects we'll take it all the way to installing our own puppet government complete with imasculated constitution so that we can make sure that the country is just democratic enough to keep the masses happy but not democratic enough to ever threaten their status as a compliant client state which supplies us with cheap oil.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I tell you what i am getting really pissed off woith the Arab league ,one minute they want a no fly zone ,with protected areas for the civillians then the french blow up a few tanks heading for Bengazzi and they throw a wobler,saying no that s not what we ment.

How the fuck are supposed to achieve it without our guys getting blown out the fucking sky..

they need to make there fucking mind up one way or the other and while it was them who made the request .lets send em the bill .!!!"

this is the thing.... they are speaking out of both sides of there mouths!

they were the one who pushed for the resoulution.... they were actually at the huge meeting in france yesterday! so you can't tell me they didn't know this was coming!....

I think it is the libyan tv claims that have jolted them a bit... but they are a one way propoganda machine...

if the arab league cave in on this one... al jazeera and al arabiya will have a field day, like it or not they both have a lot of stroke in forming arab opinion

remember gadaffi hates al jazeera because they have debunked a lot of what is said..... tunisia tried jamming al jazeera signal during their uprising... egypt tried jamming the al jazeera signal during their uprising...

libya are trying to do the same......

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

How the fuck are supposed to achieve it without our guys getting blown out the fucking sky..

they need to make there fucking mind up one way or the other and while it was them who made the request .lets send em the bill .!!!

this is the thing.... they are speaking out of both sides of there mouths!

they were the one who pushed for the resoulution.... they were actually at the huge meeting in france yesterday! so you can't tell me they didn't know this was coming!....

I think it is the libyan tv claims that have jolted them a bit... but they are a one way propoganda machine...

if the arab league cave in on this one... al jazeera and al arabiya will have a field day, like it or not they both have a lot of stroke in forming arab opinion

libya are trying to do the same......"

well tbh i am sick of dancing to tha arab tune the sooner they get a grip and we get a grip and find a credible alternate to oil the better,all these guys and women putting themselves at risk as they requested it and now .,...backtrack...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

our places in the world people dieing and we dont always go and help ... is this about oil really ..... if no oil would thay be going ?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Probably not....but be grateful they are securing oil supplies, we would be in shit without it

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By *uckoldandWifeCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Even the Yanks were reluctant to intervene in this one which is suprising given that they're the first to interfere when it comes to an oil rich nation. I think we're all getting a bit sick of war, i'd prefer it if we brough all our troops back home and sorted our own problems out first. Wars cost billions and we cant even balance our own countries defeciet at the moment."

Wars do cost billions and not a fan of them at all, but those billions are spent making guns, ships, planes, bombs etc and the minute you mention defence cuts you mention job losses and everyone panics. So while we don't like war it seems like an essential for our economy. All that money that looks like it's being spent abroad fighting battles that don't seem like our own are actually keeping hundreds of thousands of Brits in work and supporting the UKs economy. Crazy isn't it. Same people who complain about petrol prices also complain about governments who invade other countries to get more of the stuff to try and keep prices down. Ironic really. It's a fucked up world.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I think if the collation is smart... they will get the planes from the arab countries to do the partolling thru the daytime.... and at night the western countries do whatever bombing of millitary targets they need to do to maintain the no fly zone....

that way the west can claim they are doing it to protect their counterparts... and the arabs can say they are upholding the peace...

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

that way the west can claim they are doing it to protect their counterparts... and the arabs can say they are upholding the peace..."

yeah well they call and its like hello yeah ok ...dont get me wrong i think we should protect libyans from the mad dog.

But it just pisses me off as you say the speak with two messages ,becides fuck em now the will of the UN is motion,so lets not pull the punches

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Post of the day!

When oh when will we stop the interfering in other people's business? We just create yet another mob of people who hate us.

Haven't we spent the last few years cosying up to the Gaddafi regime and in the process setting free the Lockerbie bomber? And now we are involved again.

Cameron is brilliant. We can't afford a pot to pee in (eg the universities getting £1bn less) but there is always money in the pot to fight another war. It is completely wrong.

It's about time we remembered our place in the world. And it isn't as the world's policeman.

Do the right thing by our brave lads and lasses and bring them home. Enough is enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"on the back of news that the french have open fired on Libya are you pro or against us going in?

...and not just in that country. The fight for democracy is spreading throughout the middle east like wildfire

how far do we take it?"

we, we are not revolting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"our places in the world people dieing and we dont always go and help ... is this about oil really ..... if no oil would thay be going ?"

hit the nail on the head Jo, no they would not be interested. There are so many examples of this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If in some smothering dreams you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""If in some smothering dreams you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori."

From a man who wrote almost no poetry of importance until he experienced at first hand the horrors of WWI - and perversely was shot and killed a week before the end of it. His parents received news of his death as the Armistace bells were ringing out in his home town of Oswestry, Shropshire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it "

When you have no fuel for your car, and no heating for your house and the wheels of industry stop turning because nothing is powering the manufacturing conveyor belts - I suspect you may rethink that argument.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it

sod the moral arguments, it's only money these days eh?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it "

I do have to wonder sometimes if people actually realise just how important oil is in our daily lives?

Much of Japan has ground to a halt this last week when there was no fuel available.....no food in the shops, no-one getting to work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it

sod the moral arguments, it's only money these days eh?"

It's something much more basic than that - it's life. We have built our entire societies around fossil fuels and when one madman controls a huge amount of it we are forced to take action to preserve our way of life. While Gadaffi was behaving himself, relatively speaking, we were prepared to let him run his country, but when his people have clearly stated they no longer want him, and he refuses to leave sparking civil war, well, that threatens oil supplies to the rest of the world and we have to step in.

Sure, we could get oil from other oil rich nations but the overiding factor is that world oil prices have rocketed on the back of Middle East uprisings and that doesn't make for very stable economies, especially given that we are on the recovery side of a major recession.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as we are alright eh? They have been suffering for years and years and years. Had a Lybian lodger in the 1970's and it was just as bad then.

As long as we are alright we are not bothered and that's the bottom line, so why try to make a heroic act of it. Be honest and say it's about the oil.

(I do acknowledge that you have)

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

I can feel for you there, if you no longer want to be in and you've done your bit you deserve to hit the street ,unfortunately the govt think you are protecting us being in those shitholes,like they did in the 40s ,50s ,60s etc or for example when they ordered the army of the day to set up concentration camps starving 20,000 Africaan kids during the boar war...

If you take the shilling , you have to do it ..however i will say this, if your going to be ordered to do the dirty work in dirty wars ,we got to make sure your tooled up for the job with the best gear there is,enlarge the forces so the frontline gets proper rotation and destress time, no matter what govts in power,stop pissing the armed forces around and take the bill for em on the chin

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

seems to me that the Governmenta are backing an civil uprising, the USA and most of the western world have been after Gadaffi for years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think its because the main countries in the UN like US UK and france are to oil driven, every place we seem to fight is a major exporter of oil, and it doesnt seem right to risk lives for it

sod the moral arguments, it's only money these days eh?

Jeez!!... Expressing views like that goes some way to understanding why the Muslim disspossed are so easily radicalised..." we were prepared to let him run his country"..indeed! Your manna from heaven to the dissedent groups who preach sedition to the Arabian and Persian populaces who have long memories of exploitation,land and wealth grab and puppet governments !!

You purport to a moral arguement of giving the rebels freedom and democracy ...nothing could be further from the truth it appears..

And who are these rebels self determined gung ho warrior ?

Arabs or Berbers !!...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Hague said this morning that Arab nations are indeed contributing much of the money for the campaign...."

not how sure that offer will last as they are calling an emergency meeting...the concern being that the deaths of libyan civilians was not part of what they signed up for....quatar is now the only middle eastern country that says that they will continue to support the air strikes by the french

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not sure if I'm failing to get the point across or whether it's just too difficult a concept.

WE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in Libya. For the British stakeholders to get their payback, we need to protect our investment.

This isn't some cynical case of "way hey lads here's some oil we can get our mits on". This is a case of "we've spent a bloody fortune drilling holes in the ground and building the infrastructure to produce oil there, and now we're at a serious risk of losing all that before the investment has paid for itself".

It's all above board and of huge importance to anyone who uses British banks, British insurance companies or, as I said earlier, has a British pension fund.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Jeez!!... Expressing views like that goes some way to understanding why the Muslim disspossed are so easily radicalised..." we were prepared to let him run his country"..indeed! Your manna from heaven to the dissedent groups who preach sedition to the Arabian and Persian populaces who have long memories of exploitation,land and wealth grab and puppet governments !!

You purport to a moral arguement of giving the rebels freedom and democracy ...nothing could be further from the truth it appears..

And who are these rebels self determined gung ho warrior ?

Arabs or Berbers !!... "

There has always been a muslim section that believe the west to be 'crusaders'. They don't need radicalisation from outside when so much of it goes on from within their own society from a very young age.

It is a fact that oil is a very huge part of our society and our dependance on it's continued supply is inextricably linked to whoever is in control of it locally where it is brought out of the ground.

We in the West need someone we can do business with, and if that person or government then turns around and decides we are not to be dealt with then we must find another to replace him/it.

There are no guarantees that any new Libyan govt would be more pro-West than another other but given the limited options available we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

The bottom line is: We need the oil Libya produces. Our society falls assunder without it as we simply don't produce enough ourselves to do without it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure if I'm failing to get the point across or whether it's just too difficult a concept.

WE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in Libya. For the British stakeholders to get their payback, we need to protect our investment.

It's all above board and of huge importance to anyone who uses British banks, British insurance companies or, as I said earlier, has a British pension fund."

Well I really have misunderstood as I didn't realise our troops were there to serve the bankd, British insurance or British Pension funds. We live and learn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure if I'm failing to get the point across or whether it's just too difficult a concept.

WE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in Libya. For the British stakeholders to get their payback, we need to protect our investment.

It's all above board and of huge importance to anyone who uses British banks, British insurance companies or, as I said earlier, has a British pension fund."

The moral of yer post serves only to point out that any companies involved ..need to address their political risk management, and review any service they are getting from providers...this tribal fuck fest has been brewing for years!!..greater concerns than parochorial self interest are on the table ....wider geo political concerns and consequences...

And yes some us us are able to understand a fairly simplistic arguement of hundreds of millions of pounds investment being the motivation of what ?

Invasion!! ....tell me how this current action protects the investment , you so dearly cherish as a credible arguement for again what!!! ...I`m curious as to the timeline of anticipated and projected events that conspire to protect your investment !!..

Hundreds of pounds (I won`t use capitals as emphasis)which in terms of national finance are frankly laughable ammounts anyway..

Considering Russia stands to lose £4 billion in arms sales and yet hasn`t got involved ....why do you think that is ?..

Further ponderings ..how long before the tribes sort out their differences ....given theres a strong chance that Bengazi will declare itself a seperate republic..who will be in control of the oilfields ....

Will the Libyan National Oil Company..which is state owned ..still exist ...will any existing contracts be honoured?

Or are you advocating we provoke a Middle East war ...something Obama appears cognisant of!!..and invade and run the country albeit with a puppet government !!

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"I'm not sure if I'm failing to get the point across or whether it's just too difficult a concept.

WE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in Libya. For the British stakeholders to get their payback, we need to protect our investment.

It's all above board and of huge importance to anyone who uses British banks, British insurance companies or, as I said earlier, has a British pension fund.

And yes some us us are able to understand a fairly simplistic arguement of hundreds of millions of pounds investment being the motivation of what ?

Hundreds of pounds (I won`t use capitals as emphasis)which in terms of national finance are frankly laughable ammounts anyway..

Considering Russia stands to lose £4 billion in arms sales and yet hasn`t got involved ....why do you think that is ?..

Will the Libyan National Oil Company..which is state owned ..still exist ...will any existing contracts be honoured?

Or are you advocating we provoke a Middle East war ...something Obama appears cognisant of!!..and invade and run the country albeit with a puppet government !!"

i toally agree with you,at $600,000 each we lit £70 million quids worth of tomahawks on the first night ,a couple of hundred mill in the multi trillion dollar economies involved is neither here or there..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You purport to a moral arguement of giving the rebels freedom and democracy ...nothing could be further from the truth it appears..

And who are these rebels self determined gung ho warrior ?

Arabs or Berbers !!...

We in the West need someone we can do business with, and if that person or government then turns around and decides we are not to be dealt with then we must find another to replace him/it.

There are no guarantees that any new Libyan govt would be more pro-West than another other but given the limited options available we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

The bottom line is: We need the oil Libya produces. Our society falls assunder without it as we simply don't produce enough ourselves to do without it."

Frankly Wishy its nonsense to suggest that we need Libyas oil ...any research will highlight that fact..although Libya is Africas major oil supplier it still only accounts for 4% of worldwide oil reserves ...small fry indeed!! ....the jitters in the market aren`t the loss in oil supply ....Saudi is covering the shortfall with little trouble..the jitters are the unrest in major oil producing countries and tensions between Israel, Iran , Saudi and America..

The reason Libyan oil is so popular is because its high profit margins ....some oil can be sourced for as little as a few dollars ber barrel ...its sweet oil ...low in sulphur and needs little refining ..fantastic profits are the motivator amongst the keen competion of contractors ....and the main beneficiary of Libyan oil is Italy ...an old colonial power ...they`re a bit fucked ..but look elsewhere on the market ..

We don`t need the oil ....so it opens up a wider geo political motivation ...doesn`t it !!..